Where do I start?

[Aly Mac]

My DD has always been a great sleeper at night but no so good in the day - had a lot of 45min naps and at around 6months we managed to extend them and they have been better, though not consistent.  She has started in the last few weeks to wake in the night.  I wish I could make the sound for you to hear, as it's hard to explain.  It's not a cry, its kind of like a mantra cry that goes on and on.  I think she has woken and is trying to get herself back to sleep but can't.  When I give her a dummy she kind of chews on it.  I try to ignore it until it gegts to a cry - which is hard sometimes, but when it escalates I try everything and it usually gets worse before it gets better.  I end up Bf just to calm her and when calm I put the dummy in.  Thing is I put her to bed and she cries again..last night singing to her seemed to be the only thing to calm her. After reading the boards I think it could be so many things - the short daytime naps, teething (which seems to be constant), early first nap (as she still wakes reg time even though been up for an hour or so in the night), SA as that has started too. Oh and to add to it, yesterday she pooped every nappy and now has nappy rash... I have wanted to wean the dummy but I dont' think its the right time now.

Anyone got any advice on where to start? shes a 7am -7pm daytime, with 3 naps if short, no catnap if long, solids 3Xday, 4bf (no df). Oh and should I say happy most of the time to boot.

thanks in advance...

ps> she is waking prior to and after midnight...she never ever woke before midnight before...

[Layla]

Hey Ali. Could you give me an indication of when she takes those naps. Does she require the dummy to fall asleep with & are the naps short if it falls out or its ramdom? What I mean to say is that is she able to have a long nap without the dummy in her mouth?

[thitz]

Hi Aleesa,  My first thought is to drop the third nap completely.  I know all babies are different but my 8 month old can easily stay awake from 2pm till 7pm.  I find a cookie around 4pm makes a world of difference in his mood as the 3rd breastfeed till dinner is the longest amount of time he goes without food.  He naps around 8:30/9am and 1pm.

[Aly Mac]

Hi guys,

If she has 45min naps, then it is usually only 1.5-2hrs in between naps hence, 3 a day. If she has a long nap its normally the morning one, and then no 3rd nap.  Lilly certainly couldn't go from 2-7, but has gone 3.30 to 6.30.  Her A time has always been shorter when compared to others her age, but has increased (she had 4hr A time this morning!!!! we were out...).

Yesterday went like this for an indication:

2.30am A
3.00 BF (one side only, just to calm her down)
3.30 finally asleep again
7.30 bf
8.15 solids
9 S
10 A
11 bf
11.45 s
12.30 A
12.45 Solids
2.45 bf
3.15 S
4 A
4.45 S
5.30 bath
6 bf
asleep by 6.30

heard her stir around 8.30 and 10
Woke again at 2.30, escalated into full on crying/screaming for an hour.  Changed nappy etc (no feed), calmed down at 3.30 and awake at 6.30, though played quietly in her cot until 7.15.

Sometimes she needs the dummy for naps, other times not.

This is what it is like with longer naps (approx)

E 7am
Solids 8
S 8:30 - 10
E 10:30
Solids 11.45
S 12:30 - 2:00
E 2.30
S 4:15 - 5:00
Solidsv5:00
A (bath) 5.30
E 6:30
S 7

though am starting to push out the first nap to 9 and second to 1/1.30 which would eliminate the last nap. 

I hope I answered all your questions, thanks for your help.  Today she has just gone down 10.45am, so am expecting a long nap (and will extend if need be).  HOpefully this will help get her mornings back on track even though the first nap is an odd time (too much going on for her to go to sleep though I did try).

[Layla]

There did come a time when the 3rd nap wasn't working for us (8months for Jasmine & 9 months for Isabella) so it was really a matter of extending A times & using w2s to extend her pm nap. So I would try giving that a go & see if her nights improve. I would aim at not letting her have the morning nap any earlier than 9am. I think its ok to be a little overtired by the morning nap rather than later on during the day. The morning nap is usually the easiest to achieve (as its continuation of night sleep) & there was a time when Jasmine was waking at 5.30ish & I had to keep her up until 9am to shift her day to a later wake up time. You say her morning nap is usually the longest... I wouldn't let her sleep more than 1.5hrs so that she is still tired enough for a long pm nap. I would keep things low key for the last 30mins before nap & do a longer windown but really try & aim for something like this:

9am - morning nap
10.30 - wakes from nap
1.30pm - afternoon nap
3pm - nap finishes
6ish - bedtime

I do think that 5hr stretch before bedtime is a little long for her & it might only lead to her getting more overtired. The A time before bedtime means the world in this house.

You know Jasmine was a BIG sleeper (used to do 5.30-6.30/7am at night) & could hardly do the same A times as babies in her age range. But when things flipped on us (which was also at 8months) & she went from sleeping through the night for 2 weeks to waking up again early in the morning to start the day, it was suggested to drop the catnap & work on extending naps instead. I had to do w2s for her pm nap cause she was only taking 45mins as well.

How did her nap go today?

[Aly Mac]

Thanks for the advice - will work on that today. Her feed times may change but no big deal as if she's asleep she won't be hungry!

Naps yesterday were horid -

10:45 - 11:45 (part of that was asleep while feeding.... )
1:45 - 2.30 (was trying to get into her normal sleep time here )
then I knew she was so ot as you could see it in her face and every time I put her down she would get grumpy so I put her down for a nap at 3.30 and she didn't nap at first - was happy to play quietly so I lay her down beside me in our bed (as I was so pooped!) and she fell off to sleep at around 4.30 - she then woke at 5.15 which I would have woken her anyway as I try not to let her sleep past this time.

Took her a while to get to sleep at night - she was so ot that she didn't even want her solids - lunch was the same - so it was bath, bf and bed - took until around 730, but she was ok.  A few nw for replug (DH, I didn't hear her!!) and then she was up again at 4.30 - I changed her nappy and when she was distracted she stopped crying so I put her in her cot and put in a different toy - a soft one that is kind of new - and she was happy to be distracted with that so I went to bed - she didn't even cry when I left the room.  She was up at 6.30 for a feed this morning, solids at 7:45 and am currently trying to keep her awake - she's ok playing in her high chair with a new toy her nanna gave her (well the hammer part anyway).

Thanks for all your advice - will work on extending the naps and A time - normally I use a dummy to extend her nap but will try w2s - last time I tried that she just stayed awake but that was some months back.

Will report in tonight or tomorrow as to how we went!!!

[Aly Mac]

Ok - yesterday was kind of better.

6.30 A
7.15 bf
8.15 solids
9 s
10.15 A
10.45 bf
12.45 solids
1.15 s
2 - awake - worked on extending until 2.30 with no luck 
2.30 bf
3.30 s
4.30 a
4.45 solids
5.20 bath
6 bf
6.45 s

The afternoon nap didn't go as well as like as she had to poop and I think this woke her as well as the tummy pain of another poop soon after. She was tired so I made sure she had a catnap - should I have done this or just put her to bed at 6 instead?? I just didn't want her to be OT. 

She went to sleep really well, no dummy!!! and quiet and didn't make a sound until around 4 or so where she put herself back to sleep.  4.45 she woke up and I settled her easily (not asleep but settled), awake again at 5.30 and put herself back so I wasn't too perturbed that she woke at 6.30.  Managed to keep her up until now (8.50am) she was just really mantra crying.  Doesn't them being ot make them have a short nap??

sorry about the questions -but you've been such a help (and spot on) so far.

[Layla]

The afternoon nap didn't go as well as like as she had to poop and I think this woke her as well as the tummy pain of another poop soon after. She was tired so I made sure she had a catnap - should I have done this or just put her to bed at 6 instead?? I just didn't want her to be OT

If she was outright tired, I would have done the same thing . You can only keep them awake for so long & I've read that anywhere till 9months, a catnap is ok. So when I was working on dropping Jasmine's catnap, there were days when she had a short pm nap & most certainly I would give her a catnap. It all kinda evened out by 9months.

She might have very well woken up from tummy pains. I "try" to give lunch about 1hr before nap time so that she has plenty of time to poop .

She went to sleep really well, no dummy!!! and quiet and didn't make a sound until around 4 or so where she put herself back to sleep.  4.45 she woke up and I settled her easily (not asleep but settled), awake again at 5.30 and put herself back so I wasn't too perturbed that she woke at 6.30.  Managed to keep her up until now (8.50am) she was just really mantra crying.  Doesn't them being ot make them have a short nap??

This is a great achievement & if she's put herself back to sleep then I don't really count that as night wakings .

Yes, them being overtired makes them take shorter naps but 45min nap is usually not an overtired nap. 30mins is but 45mins could be not enough A time or that its habitual waking. When we were dropping the catnap, Jasmine was also taking 45min pm nap so I tried the w2s method on her for about a week, and voila... she started sleeping past 45mins. Maybe try giving that a go & see if it helps....

[Aly Mac]

Thank you!

Yes I have kind of done w2s yes am and today am - just a gentle pat/shake (sounds awful!) to just stir her and back to sleep.  This morning, another poop though....she has gone from being constipated to pooping 3 times a day or more - rather it out than in, but seems to be happening in her naps.  Will try not to give lunch to close to pm nap (I was out yesterday hence the later lunch - with the short naps, 11am seems to be the best time for us to go out and do some chores!) I didn't realise that it would go thru her that easily as we have always seemed to have the opp prob with poops.

And yes, in the scheme of things I would normally not have called these nw

It's nice and rainy here today so hopefully she will get the stay asleep bug......

[Layla]

Try prune juice in the morning - that shoud clear her up by nap time, lol

Its very cold over here. No rain but just outright COLD!!!

[Aly Mac]

I didn't realise we were in the same country!!!  I won't ask the personal details on here (after what happened recently...).  I'm in the same place as Deb though.

[Layla]

I didn't realise we were in the same country!!!  I won't ask the personal details on here (after what happened recently...).  I'm in the same place as Deb though.

What happened? Well I'm in very chilly Melbourne

[Layla]

I'm just goin to step out & take Jasmine out for a walk (even though I freeze when we do this, the girls can't get enough of the park  ). Isabella is out with daddy - gone to Bunnings  & I have to try & entertain the lo. Will be back in about an hour so if I don't reply back soon... its because I am not here.

 

[Aly Mac]

I PM'd you about the other...

Had to quickly go do a chore and thought Lilly would be ok but fell asleep in the car.  Bought her upstairs and she is dead to the world so I didn't have the heart to wake her = I know I should have but she did end up having a long nap this am.  (It's only 12.30 at the mo).  I'd say another nap this afternoon is on the horizon - she just can't be consistent with her A time the poor little tike.  She didn't have lunch either...

will do my best! as it really did seem to work yesterday...

[Layla]

Hey there fellow Australian . How are you doing? How's the little bubba???