Night wakings and no napping

[nicola2007]

Hi there,
i really hope someone can help me im desperate.  . I  have a 23 week old LO who was sleeping from around 8pm til about 4am and then feeding and sleeping until around 8am.  We went on holiday about 3 weeks ago and when we got back i decided it would be a god time to put him in his own room in his own cot.  Ever since he has been waking twice (Once at about 1am then about 4am or 5am).

When he wakes at 1am i try to get him back to sleep by putting the dmmy in and stroking his head, if this does not work i get him out and hold him.  He screams so much i find it really hard.

Also in the day he has started to really cry hwen i put him down to nap, he's never done this before.  Before he sleeps i always hold him il he's really relaxed (Eyes just open) then put him down.  He usually then just stays there, but recently he just crys.

He is reallt fighting his swaddle also.  He also has a tooth coming through but in the day apart from dribbling and ramming is hand i his mouth he doesn't seem to be in pain

Sorry its so long.  I really hope someone can help, i've even considered CIO, which i always said i wouldn't do 

[MJMom]

What kind of routine are you keeping him on in the day?  How long are his A times?

have you given him anything else for the teething?  like teething tablets or any thing?

[nicola2007]

we don't have set times but he eats every 3 hours and i keep him up for around 1 hour and he sleeps for anything from half an hour to 2 hours, it really depends.  We usually get i 2 hour nap and the rest are about half an hour to 45 mins.  But today he has only slept for about 1 hour all day.

I really don't know what to do!

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Hey Nicola,
Have you tried something for his teeth? 
Could he be hungry when he wakes at night?  You're sure it's not a growth spurt?  Positive? 
He sounds really overtired, between the waking at night and the no naps, they must go together. 
Enfys has been fighting the swaddle blanket recently too, I double wrap her!  She won't even fall asleep unswaddled yet (except in the pushchair!!) let alone stay asleep.  Saw your post in the birth club board too but I replied here, he's 13 weeks, right, not 23?  You're sure it's not a growth spurt?  (I keep waiting for ours, don't seem to have seen it yet so I'm looking for yours now!)

[nicola2007]

I haven't given him anything for the teething yet.  Yeah sorry he is 13 weeks not 23!  The reason i don't think its a growth spurt is because its gone on for about two weeks.

This sounds wierd but it seems as if hes just figures that he's alone at night and doesn't like it.

I feel completely at my wits end.  I'm really worried that he won't sleep alone anymore as soon as we put him down he crys. I just don't know what to do.

[MJMom]

Funny... you posted while I was typing and 13 weeks is a BIG difference from 23!!  So, changing my whole post now!

What has today looked like so far?  I know you said you don't have exact times every day (neither do I) the best way to help is to see what's going on .

Do you do a DF?  BF or Formula?

First thing to focus on all day is trying to get him to nap at all today.  The NW's and the no naps do go hand in hand. 

Please know you are not alone!  My DD used to go 8-9 hrs at a stretch until 12 weeks.  Then stopped.  Now at 21 weeks she is just getting back to the 8-9 hr stretches!  And there were a TON of things I tried.  I jsut want to get a better feel for where you are at now.

[nicola2007]

Hi there,

Thanks for posting.  We don't o a dream feed because he was going from 8pm - 4am we didn't see the need and to be honest i was worried to do it in case he completly woke.  I BF him.

My shedule is roughly:

7-7.30 (Sometimes 6.30) feed
A - 7.45 - 8.45
S - 9.00 - 10.00 (Naps are anything from 30 mins to 2 hours).

We repeat this cycle all day until it gets to about aftrnoon time and i cluster feed him.  Usually at 3.30, 5.30 and 7.30.

Today i fed him at 7.30am then put him down for a nap at 8.30 and he slept for 20 minutes.  Then:

E - 10.50
A 11-11.30
S Had about half an hour from 1 - 1.30

E 1.50
A - None
S Would not sleep

E 4.30
S Took out in car and managed to get him to sleep from 6.30 - 7

Fed at 7 then straight to bed

Today was not a normal day though and one i really don't want to repeat! Hope this makes sense!

[MJMom]

This does make sense!  I'm not sure how normal is the 20 min. and 30 min. naps though?  It sounds like you really need to work on nap extensions.  Has he been napping like this since your trip?  Or has it always been this way?  He without a doubt needs more sleep.

At 12 weeks, he really should only be awake 1 hr - 1hr 15 min. max.  More than that will over tire him.

What are you doing for his A times?  Particularly the first one?  Until he really gets more sleep, you may want to make sure it's always low key.  (of course how energetic can it be for a 13 wk old!)  Things like bright bold colored toys can be overstimulated as well as Gymini's where they can't get out of the way of those bold overhead bars can over stimulate a wee one.

I notice some gaps in today's timeline between A time and S.  Is this you trying to get your LO to sleep?

Have you read this thread?
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85499.0

[Layla]

Your A times are too long for his age & he is probably overtired & too wired up to take a nap or to take a good nap. Also wanted to say that A times include the feeding, diaper change & pretty much everything from the time that he wakes up.

This is a link to sample EASY routines for 0-3 months https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10384.0

When he wakes 30mins later, what have you tried to put him back to sleep?

[nicola2007]

hey guys thanks for your posts.  Yesterday was a really wierd day, its not normally like that.  On a normal day he only has A time for an hour, including feeding (He only takes 10 minutes).

When he is awake i do put him under a gymini which might be too stimulating but im unsure what else to so with him?

To extend his naps i've tried most things, the problem is when i go in his eyes are wide open and hes really smiley which makes me think he's not tired? But he usually naps for at least 45 minutes.  What do you guys do to extend naps?

Also what do you do when your out? Do you just accept they will end up OT?

[nicola2007]

i meant to add.  He only woke twice last night.  He slept at 7.30pm then woke at 3am and fed then at 5.30 and fed then slept till 7am.  So his lack of sleep in the day did not imapct on his night sleep.  This is what usually happens, no matter how little or how much sleep he has in the day he sleeps the same at night.  Its makes no sense.  In fact when he sleeps more in the day he wakes for 1st feed earlier recently (1am).

Anyone know what thats about.

[Layla]

When he is awake i do put him under a gymini which might be too stimulating but im unsure what else to so with him?

Gymini is ok imo but you could just pick him up & walk around. Show him objects around the house, name things... go for a walk in the pram, put him on a sling & walk around.... Read a book.... give him tummy time & lay on the floor with him & sing him a song...

To extend his naps i've tried most things, the problem is when i go in his eyes are wide open and hes really smiley which makes me think he's not tired? But he usually naps for at least 45 minutes.  What do you guys do to extend naps?

When he wakes at 45mins, don't go to him immediately. Wait to see if he will put himself back to sleep. If he's up & happy, it could mean that he needs more A time? You could try shh/pat (if he's crying) or you could try w2s. Go into his room at around 30-35mins & do something to stir him (like move a blanket or stroke him cheek or hand) & this should be enough to get him through 45mins.

Also what do you do when your out? Do you just accept they will end up OT?

Sometimes thats all you can do . I used to take the pram in case she would fall asleep or take the baby bjorn with me & try to walk around until she was asleep (I had to cover the top of it with a blanket cause she would otherwise be too busy looking around). Otherwise if he's not taking a nap when you're out, you could just do an earlier bedtime so they make up for it at night.

i meant to add.  He only woke twice last night.  He slept at 7.30pm then woke at 3am and fed then at 5.30 and fed then slept till 7am.  So his lack of sleep in the day did not imapct on his night sleep.  This is what usually happens, no matter how little or how much sleep he has in the day he sleeps the same at night.  Its makes no sense.  In fact when he sleeps more in the day he wakes for 1st feed earlier recently (1am).

Anyone know what thats about.

The drive to sleep can increase at night if they sleep less during the day BUT thats not to say that you should cut daytime sleep just to get a more sound night,..... because if he's not getting the proper sleep during the day, he will get very overtired & his night sleep will be haywire as well. So try to work on naps & good daytime sleep & it should all fall into place.

Let me know how you go
Layla

[MJMom]

Did you check out the link I put in my post?  It talks specifically about the 45 minute nap.  I used every single techinique in there at one point or another and it helped!

When my LO was that age, I limited gymini time to 10 minutes.  Any more than that her subsequent nap was really bad!   You could try removing the bars over head.  Also, the last 15 minutes or so of A time, you could try very non-stimulating things like sitting in your lap with a single toy or reading a book.  The other suggestions that Layla had are good too!