BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: LucyA on September 22, 2007, 10:41:30 am
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When dd was weighed the other day, we discovered she's only put on 110 gm in 3 weeks.
She weighed 4.425kg at birth, 4.250kg at 4 days, 4.480kg at 11 days, and 4.590 at 5 weeks.
She's a very content baby, who has slept pretty happily from birth, especially during the day. During the day she will go 4 or more hours without feeding if I let her, although it's usually 3 hourly at night. I had been trying to wake her to feed every 3-3.5 hours during the day, but that is sometimes easier said than done!!
We'va had a fair bit of disruption the last few weeks, we moved house then went to stay with my folks for a couple of weeks. I think now we are settled back at home I'll be able to get her feeding more regularly/frequently.
We get her weighed again next Friday. Any thoughts or reassurance would be welcome in the mean time.
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{{{{hugs}}}}} Lucy
We have been there done that with Jalyn ::)
I would try to feed her every 2-2.5 hours during the day (easier said than done). Yup, that means waking her and attempting the feed. If she doesn't take it, then try again next time (this is the advice I had from my pediatrician... btw, is the doctor concerned?) She WILL wake up and want that milk soon!
Is she producing at least 6 wet diapers in 24 hours?
She IS gaining, slowly, but she's not losing weight.
Is she generally content?
With all your moving, has she been weighed in different offices?
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Yes, plenty of wet nappies, generally content. All the weigh-ins have been at different places, they will be consistent from now on. The nurse is not overly concerned - we'll see how she goes next week.
She does seem to be waking up a bit more the last few days.
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She may have gained more than you know... with different scales, they are probably not consistent ;)
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You'll probably be surprised at her weight gain next time - she might just have taken a bit of time to get into the rhythm of things! :) Also, heading towards the 6 week growth spurt! ;D Let us know how she does.
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*bumping* I think Lucy is going to be looking for this....
Can you outline your routine? How often is Chloe feeding?
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I mentioned this on our BC too but, are you taking good care of yourself? It is tough to find the time for yourself I am sure, so I hope you are ok sweetie. You have moved house, had a new baby and although it is all great it is still a form of stress. Are you eating well and drinking loads of water? Massive ((((HUGS))))
A x
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Thanks Rach. :-*
So we had a good week after my first post, Chloe put on 260gm, about 9oz. She was feeding more or less 3 hourly round the clock, maybe a little longer at night, and feeding for a bit longer each feed. Still one-sided feeding.
This week started off the same, but Wed she wouldn't feed well, feeds were shorter again, and she just wouldn't take her evening feed (about 5.30pm) til about 7pm she had a small feed. She fed fine overnight, but dropped a night feed, feeding at 11pm and 4am.
Thurs she fed 3.5 hourly, 7.30, 11, 2.30, 6, then 10pm then woke at 3 or 3.30am. She fed well at each feed, about 15 minutes on one side for each feed.
But we had her weighed this morning, and she hasn't gained any weight since last week (although she did do a huge poo right before we left the house, so I guess if she'd saved that til after the weigh-in she would have shown a weight gain!).
HV has advised me to feed her on both sides, 5 min on each side, twice. Then pump 30 minutes after a feed and top her up with EBM. We go back on Tuesday to weigh her again. Feeding 3 hourly daytime and no more than 4 hourly overnight.
Other than weight gain she seems to be doing really well. She smiles and 'talks' a lot, she does sleep a fair bit, but when she's awake (about an hour at a time) she's alert and looking around. She just doesn't want to eat!
Aisling, I'm trying to look after myself and not do too much that's not necessary - luckily I've had years of practice at ignoring housework!! I do need to try harder to drink lots of water though.
Anyway, off to feed again...
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<<HUGS>> My lo was a slow weight gainer too. Turns out I had low supply issues with bfing. We were at the doctor every day for the first month, holding our breath about whether or not he would be gaining. His birthweight was 8lbs 6oz, and he went down to 7lbs 4oz, so the ped was concerned. Begrudgingly I started supplementing formula, but with a SNS so I could still give him some breastmilk, but give him the fluid that he needed to gain. Slowly but surely his weight picked up! He is now almost 6mos and weighs 18lbs and is 27.5 inches tall!!!!
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quick update, I pumped about 2.5 oz and she drank about 2 oz of it!
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Lucy - proceed with caution swapping sides by the clock if you double side feed - you should only swap once Chole has completely finished the first side (ok, it's never totally empty but waiting til she pulls off herself is ideal) otherwise she's getting a double dose of foremilk and not so much fatty hindmilk.
More in a mo, Lisi just woke
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she's supposed to feed twice on each side, so she gets hindmilk the second time, right?
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HV has advised me to feed her on both sides, 5 min on each side, twice. Then pump 30 minutes after a feed and top her up with EBM.
You've had lots of good comments so far but I can't let this one go - sorry. This advice would be all well and good if pumps were better at extracting milk and stimulating supply than babies - but they are not. By a long shot. Pumping and ebm top-up should be in addition to a baby feeding in this situation and not instead of.
Timing sides like this is the exact opposite of what a trained breastfeeding counsellor would advice you. You risk breaking her flow (literally), teaching her to only feed with an initial flood of letdown instead of working to extract the hindmilk, causing her frustration and getting extra wind into her.
I really would suggest you try and get a full a feed as you can on one side - using breast compression if that helps (see the FAQs). Then switch sides and then return to the first side. By all means switch sides if she loses motivation but to tell someone to pull a baby off the first side after 5 minutes if a baby is glugging away and happily transitioning to hindmilk makes no sense.
With the extra pumping after a feed your supply will develop so then if you continue with this 5 minute regime she may really fill up on foremilk from your increased supply. And of course - hindmilk is what it is all about when it comes to weight gain.
Sharon mentions an SNS system. That can be a very valuable tool for a woman who is supplementing but would like to remain breastfeeding in the long-term (rather than risk flow confusion from regular bottle use). You can even buy them on amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Medela-Supplemental-Nursing-System/dp/B000W73YKY/ref=sr_1_7/203-0444714-7362321?ie=UTF8&s=baby&qid=1191569019&sr=1-7
You can also get them from expressyourselfmums.co.uk
http://www.expressyourselfmums.co.uk/low-milk-supply/itemnum/230
who also sell a range of galactalogues which you may want to consider.
Anyway - that's my 2 cents. Sorry to contradict the HV but I really couldn't keep :-X. I see Katie has the same concern. If you want a third opinion phone a bf helpline and just mention the HV's advice (and hear the shriek on the phone :P)
Good Luck. Big HUGs. Look after yourself.
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Emma covered that better than I ever could :D
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thanks Emma, what you say makes sense.
I'll keep you all posted
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I agree with Katie and Emma! Better to watch how she's nursing than the clock. Good luck! :)
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So the 3 hourly feeding seems to go ok for a few feeds, then not. At her 7pm feed yesterday, Chloe latched on for maybe a minute, then started screaming. Eventually I put her in the sling and let her sleep for a little while, eventually fed her at 8pm by taking our tops off so we were skin to skin. Before that she was just crying again. She stayed on about 15 mins each side at 8pm.
Overnight I woke her at around midnight and 4am for feeds, which went ok. Then woke her around 7.30am. She fed ok on one side, although less than 10 min, then was fairly soundly asleep again. Eventually woke her up and she had the other side too, but the whole feed took over an hour.
I then woke her to feed at 11am. She fed for about 5 min on one side, then started crying again. After a little while she had another couple of minutes, then just cried and cried til she fell asleep again. She didn't want the bottle either at this time. The crying I *think* is more tired than pain cry, but tbh, I'm not great at interpreting cries. I'm more a process of elimination approach.
So there seems to be a problem that I need to wake her to feed, but when I do she gets too tired to feed. Any ideas??
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If she really hasn't got the energy to feed - breast compressions can really help:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=88759.0
Can you try and feed her without waking her fully a la dreamfeed? Doesn't always work :-\
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Emma, when she's too tired, she won't really latch on at all, just cries when I try to feed her. Generally if I put her back to sleep for half an hour she will then feed, but it ends up being an hour later than it's supposed to be.
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Hmmm. Tricky. It might help if you try and squeeze some bm onto her lips or even squeeze in a few drops from a syringe to see if that motivates her to open up.
And obvious comment alert - but it makes a difference when you wake her i.e. what part of her sleep cycle. It can help to give yourself a 20 minute window to wake her up and really observe to see if you can catch her in a lighter of a sleep cycle so she wakes more easily and is more likely to feed well.
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lucy sorry to jump in but have you considered reflux? the crying when latching on DD does too when shes tired but if i bounce her about a bit whilst stuffing boob on her mouth (LOL) she generally gives in....when she doesnt it's xcoz she refluxy?
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well chloe put on 90gm in 4 days, about 3 oz. that's ok, but all this force feeding is making her miserable. she cries and cries whrn i try to get her to take more. she is much better if i make sure she's not overtired, so i guess i just have to be strict about her napping for a while.
michelle, the hv mentioned reflux today too, chloe does spit up a lot, but it doesn't seem to bothr her, she's fine sleeping flat on her back too. the crying does seem often to be related to tiredness, but i'm not completely ruling reflux out.
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Good to hear about the weight gain ;D
Hope you can find a happy medium soon :-*
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3 oz in 4 days is more than OK. It's good.
Hope you work things out. :-*
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Now she's refusing feeds again. Today I tried on and off for about an hour to feed her, starting around 11am. First she fed for a couple of minutes, then stopped for a poo, then just smiled at me when I tried to get her back on after changing her. I tried again a little later, she kept latching on, sucking a couple of times, then pulling a face and crying. Same thing when I tried again a little later. I offered her a bottle of ebm, and she drank about 3oz then went to sleep. I then pumped and got 7oz.
I'm just dreading trying to feed her now, sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's horrible and she just gets upset and won't feed. I'm waiting for a lactation consultant to call me back now.
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If she's putting on the weight, then maybe she's just telling you she's full?? Not sure how often she's having bottles though as that would 'skew' things a bit, as apparently babies will take more milk from a bottle as it's just easy for the milk to flow out.
I know how aweful it is when you dread feed time. Hope things get better with the LC help too.
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thanks denise. she's only really had the bottles today. I've been offering her top-ups since friday, on advice of the nurse, but she wouldn't really take any. I stopped offering topups on Sunday. I offered today because I felt she hadn't really fed from me, and she did take them.
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I'm glad you'll be talking to an LC - hopefully she'll have some suggestions. Hugs.
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I had this problem when my baby was jaundiced except I would have to wake him up every 5 MINS to finish a 20 minute feed and he used to be really really zonked out. I used to tear my hair out trying to keep him awake to feed.
The midwives kept giving me different advice but one told me to let him sleep if he slept after 5 mins of feeding because he was probably worn out from all the waking! I didn't feel i could chance a day where he didn't feed properly because he was under 3 kilos at the time but I took her advice, he got 3 sets of 3 hours sleep with not too much food in between but he seemed to get the rest he needed and started staying awake a bit better. The whole thing lasted weeks though and was horrendous but perhaps your baby just wants a longer sleep and maybe she senses your anxiety at feed times?
Perhaps prayer- relaxation might help? (easier said than done I know - I used to get terribly panicky and my husband would have to take me for a spin in the car while he calmed me down - hormones up and down after birth do not help)
Also your instincts are telling you she is tired so she may need alot more sleep in between feeds, so maybe ask your HV about this. Could you let her go more than four hours without a feed, what would she suggest? It might give her the rest she needs like mine.
Let us know how you get on anyway.
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Thanks Taji07. I think you're right.
We saw the lactation consultant tonight, and she thinks Chloe has lots of wind, and isn't getting enough hindmilk (based on my description of her poos). She suggested I stop trying to squeeze extra feeds in, and just try and improve the feeds she has. She adjusted our positioning, and said to do lots of tummy time and skin to skin time when Chloe is happy. She also said to try not to worry so much about how much weight she gains, so long as she's not losing weight.
I'm feeling much more relaxed about things. Chloe had a good feed while the LC was here, and I feel comfortable with the advice she gave. Fingers crossed we're back on track now!!
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That sounds really great. Keep us posted! :)
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So up and down again. A week after my last post, Chloe had put on 110gm, that was good. Had her weighed again today, 2 weeks later, she's put on only another 80 gm.
What seems to happen is that if I try and make her eat more, she will, but she's miserable, and feeding is really difficult. I often end up bottle feeding her in her sleep. If left to her own devices as to how much she eats, she's happy, feeding is peasant, but weight gain drops right off.
The Child Health nurse isn't overly worried, says Chloe seems great other than the weight gain. Spoke to LC again, she wasn't worried at all. LC is coming to see us again tomorrow.
We're also taking Chloe to doc for a check over next week. And I'm going to pump after some feeds and try and top her up a bit that way. I'm also trying breast compressions, although need to check with LC I'm doing it right!!
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lucy, noting for later, need to get Matthew from nursery and need to feed andrew first.
sounds very much like what happened with Matthew - nag me if I don't get back.
alex
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I think the important thing is she is doing well overall and noone is worried. It sounds like you've got some sensible support.
Ideally there is an inbetween stage where you can find a medium where she is happy and still able to put on 'some' weight. I personally wouldn't want to go down the miserable force-feeding road just for the sake of weight gain - but I guess that's easy for me to say.
Pumping after feeds is a good idea as is breast compression. Hope the LC has some good advice tomorrow.
Thanks for the update.
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She's GAINING Lucy! How are her diapers? What about her height?
I need to look back at Jalyn's records... she was a slow gainer too (still is!).
{{{hugs}}}} Lucy :-*
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Good nappies, didn't check height today, but has been gaining at all other appts.
Emma, I'm not keen on force feeding for the sake of weight gain either, but that darn Child Health Nurse. She is a bit worried, but seems to have no idea what the problem could be (if there is one).
I guess we'll keep plugging away...
Thanks :-*
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I guess I'm not there but I'd just say every baby is an individual. And it's possible for a baby to not fit the 'average' weight gain but follow their own patterns and for there not to be the remotest inkling of a problem. :-*
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She looks pretty good to me ;D
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and me..... :)
HUGS Lucy.
A x
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I'll say! ;D ;D
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gorgeous!
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Saw GP today, he's not too concerned. Said she has nice chubby legs, and generally looks great. We're doing a urine test, just in case, and I'll see him again in a couple of weeks.
Feeding has improved a lot over the last week, she's feeding more happily and she's taking an extra feed each day! I've been pumping a little before I feed her for some feeds, doing breast compressions.
Weighing her tomorrow...
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You sound much happier Lucy ;D don't fret too much about the weigh in!
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You do sound more relaxed. Sounds like you have a sensible GP. Fingers crossed for tomorrow (but it's not the whole story whatever the result).
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You are doing a great job Lucy! :-*
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Hi Lucy
I'm really sorry I didn't see this post before now but just to let you know that we've been there - still are sort of. My DD is almost 9 months and if it wasn't for this board and all the fab advice/support we would have stopped breast feeding at 5 weeks.
My little one was slow to regain birth weight and was not a big feeder from day one so I always had concerns about supply but never really established if that was the reason for slow weight gain (suspect not at this stage). What we went through was really similar to you, she loved her sleep. Fed fine if left for 3 hours between feeds but for shorter periods than the other babies I knew and once she was done, she would go nuts if you tried to put her back on for longer. She also hated it when I tried to feed her before she was ready and really I woke her for all feeds until she was around 8 weeks old. She never woke herself in the night until around this time as well. Other than slow weight gain, she was fab, slept well, was really alert, just looked petit. She was on the second last line on the chart since her inital weight drop after birth and stayed on it until she dropped to the last line at around 4/5 months.
I tried all kinds of things, pumping after feeds for months/herbs/trying to force her to feed longer (lots of tears from both of us), tried to force her to feed more frequently during the day (didn't work at all) and supplemented 1/2oz 3 times a day for 4/5weeks in the early days. Eventually, as she got a little bigger, I took the decision that she seemed happy and was well able to let me know she was hungry the few times we were out and late for a feed so I became more relaxed, stopped forcing her and followed her cues.
She is now, almost 9 months and still following the bottom line on the chart and feeding supper fast but happy as larry, very petit but chubby cheeks and hates sitting up as she would far rather roll at 100 miles an hour around my open plan area. She is currently around 14lb and her peers are around 17/18lbs and although they all seemed to have dropped feeds in the past month or so she is determinedly continuing with the same number of short feeds as always (in hindsight she always seemed to know her own mind about what feeds she wanted). The HV's continued to try and stress me but the GP has said to look at her you wouldn't guess she is bottom of the charts.
I'm not sure if this will help/relax you at all but just to let you know that you are not alone and babies come in all shapes and sizes and if she is gaining (however slowly) and has wet nappies and is happy - I have belatedly come to accept that it probably means everything is just fine.
Molly
PS Out of the 6 babies in my antenatal group, she is the only one who has never been to see the doctor for an illness/cough/cold. She has been for her reflux, which only arrived at 5 months so wasn't the cause of initial slow growth.
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Thanks Molly :-*
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She has put on 145 gm!! ;D ;D ;D
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WAHOO! Way to go Chloe (and Lucy!) ;D :-*
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;D FAB!
A x
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Yay! :D
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;D
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Great news - I bet that takes a weight off your mind!
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Great news - I bet that takes a weight off your mind!
No pun intended ;)
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LOL!
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;D ;D
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;D ;D
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Weighed Chloe again today, and she's gained 195 grams in 2 weeks (about 7 oz). Child Health Nurse is happy, I'm happy, and Chloe is happy! I'm still pumping at the start of a feed a couple of times a day, and will continue to do so a little longer. We're doing 7 feeds of about 10 min on 1 side.
Thanks for all the support and advice, I really appreciate it. :-*
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That's great news. Thanks for the update :)
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Great news ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*
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That's great to hear Lucy!
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Yeah Chloe. That is excellent news. Woo Hoo. ;D ;D ;D