BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Meredith123 on October 09, 2007, 00:37:14 am
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Hi there,
I'm looking for some input...
My 22 month old son has been a great sleeper. Since he was 13 months old he has slept through for 12 hours at night and has had good naps during the day. All of a sudden this past week he has started waking up 2-3 times through the night. Here's how this whole thing started...
About a month ago he started going to daycare. For his naps there they sit beside his bed until he falls asleep. At home we would put him into his crib, say goodnight and leave the room. He was perfectly happy to fall asleep on his own. Then a couple of weeks ago he started crying when I would leave the room. All of a sudden I found myself staying in his room until he fell asleep...I know it's bad, but it all happened so fast! Initially this wasn't so bad as he was still sleeping through the night. I thought it might be due to some separation anxiety since I had started leaving him at daycare.
Then about a week ago our smoke detector went off when we were cooking dinner. This really scared my little guy and he has been quite upset about it ever since. His behaviour has changed quite a bit, he's more clingy at times, and he retells the story of the smoke detector going off many times during each day. He's quite fixated on it. Anyway, since then, not only do we sit with him to fall asleep, but he's now waking up through the night and we end up sitting with him for 30-45 minutes each time, until he falls asleep again. Last night he was awake from 1-5am! I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the smoke detector, but the times coincide.
I guess my question is...should I do Walk in/Walk out in this situation, or should I sleep in his room with him until he starts sleeping through the night again? We seem to be going backwards...I started just sitting in the room with him to fall asleep but then it got worse. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Meredith
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Ick, that's tough.
Have you done any sleep training with him in the past?
It seems to me that since you've got some anxiety issues going on that you might want to set up camp in his room for a couple of nights just to put his mind at ease. And I'd speak with him about it a lot when you're doing it - so he understands what's going on. Then you can move into gradual withdrawl if you think that's appropriate - or start Wi/Wo if it becomes necessary (i.e. a week has gone by with no improvement)
Let us know how you do!
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We have used PU/PD in the past and it worked really well. We used PD to help get rid of his soother dependence (when he was 13 m.o.), so he has always been quick to figure these techniques out. We know that he CAN independently fall asleep and soothe himself back to sleep, since he has been doing that for 9 months, but for some reason he's just not choosing to do it right now!
Last night my husband lay down on the floor in Daniel's room when he was falling asleep, then left after he was asleep. Daniel woke up once through the night and I went in and lay down with him again. He stood up in his crib once to check that I was there, but he went back to sleep more quickly than he had the past couple of nights. I left after he fell asleep and he slept through until the morning.
Should I be staying in his room for the whole night? Is that what will help him get back into the pattern of self-soothing when he wakes up through the night?
Thanks for your help!
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I have done it both ways - "textbook" says yes, stay all night so that you instill trust - but you can play it by ear - if you are able to get up and go back to your own bed without NWs after that, then by all means do that!
Great progress - keep us posted!
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Hi Meredith & welcome to the boards :)
My little girl got really scared of an electric devise a few months ago (2.5yo) & her sleep went downhill as well. To start with I would do gradula withdrawal (which is the path you are going down at the moment having to sit with him). You could try a mattress on the floor & move it towards the door every couple of days but in the meantime, during the day I would work on helping him with his fear.
This is cut & paste from another post of what helped us..
Isabella recently had a scare (an electric sander that next door neighbour was using). She was scared of her room & her cot so some of the things I did that helped was:
* I spent a lot of time in her room (more than 1/2 of the day actually) & as soon as she would ask me about the sander I would validate her feelings & not make her think that her fears are silly, etc...
* Dh & I brought a sander into the house & dh used it to sand a piece of wood in front of her. She was not forced to watch (dh was in the garage) but she kept going in & out as she pleased. So here you could maybe let him see the alarm & take it down so he can play with it. Or maybe get ear cuffs & let the alarm go off so that he can see how the alarm works. Obviously if he's getting really scared then swtich it off.
* I gave her control over the things she could & wanted to hear. I got her ear plugs but she didn't like to wear them so I told her she could cover her ears with her hands if she didn't like any particular sound. She still does this when something is very loud & she doesn't like hearing it... she will cover her ears & say "Bella don't like that noise" (this one was suggested to me by Kate & its been doing wonders).
*I actually did spend the 1st 3 days sitting with her until she fell asleep because her fear was VERY real & she was totally petrified of her cot. I believe if I had been doing wi/wo from day 1, I would have caused more damage. You could tell she was very scared because she wouldn't even go into her room to start with & she was frightened of the smallest things & jump up & cry when I would put the tap on. It really depends on how anxious he really is. So again in your case I think its good that you are sitting with him as wi/wo would probably cause more anxieties & intensify the fear
*I got her a little night light (one you can plug into socket) but she kept on insisting for me to leave the "big" light on & wanted the night light off. So I bought this amazing product from ebay (let me know if you are interested & I'll post the link). It only cost me $6.50 (incl postage - in Australia). You plug it into where the light bulb goes & then put the light bulb in & with the on-off switch the lights will either dim over 24mins or will go to straight dim (or you can have it all off or on to fullest brightness). So now there are no battles over the lights being on or off. I leave the lights on for her to fall asleep with (its very dim) & she has the control over it being the "big" light. I switch it off once she is asleep as she has woken up a few times at night & asked me to switch the lights off (weird how she wants them on to fall asleep with but off for the rest of the night ).We still have the light dimmer on when she goes to sleep & I turn it off once she is asleep. This worked REALLY well for us as well
*I also gave her a cross (its a children's cross with painting of farm, trees, animals rather than the crucifix). She also sleeps with her teddies & lovey & I talk about how much they all protect her at night when mummy is not around
*Finally (& this I was also told about on this site) you could get a spray & infront of him spray the room & tell him its special dust that keeps the birds away. I did this & also say "NO SANDERS ALLOWED IN THIS HOUSE" with a really serious voice when she would mention one.
Layla
Some things that worked for us & maybe you could try some during the day. Once you see that his fears are subsiding then you could work on taking yourself out of the picture when he falls asleep. Move the chair towards the door & in the end you could try leaving the door adjar & once you see that he is no longer scared & if he's still dependant on you at night you could do wi/wo.
Let me know if you have any q's
Layla :)
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Thanks for the great advice Layla!
I hadn't mentioned it before, but I did try WI/WO for one night (while I was thinking that he was just being stubborn, not actually scared) and after that was when he started waking up through the night. Previous to that he had just wanted me or my husband in his room as he was falling asleep initially. So you're right, he wasn't ready for that!
Last night I lay on a mattress on his floor as he was falling asleep and he went to sleep quickly. When I would just sit by the door he had gotten into the habit of saying, "Mommy sit" every few minutes to check that I was still there. When I told him that I was going to lie down he didn't do that checking, so that was good. I left his room when he fell asleep.
He woke up again at 12:00, really crying. He stopped and settled down as soon as I went in his room. I lay down again and stayed there for the rest of the night. He woke up once more through the night, but I let him know that I was there and he went right back to sleep.
He woke up crying in the morning too, but again he was fine when he realized that I was there.
I think tonight I will try staying in his room for the whole night, so we don't have the big crying spell in the middle. Hopefully that will help.
Thanks so much for the suggestions and reassurance!
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An update...
Last night I stayed in Daniel's room for the whole night. He went to sleep easily at 7:30. He woke up at 12:00 but I let him know I was there before he could start crying. The same thing happened at 3:00, 5:30, and 6:30.
I don't think that this is really improvement...he didn't have to cry, which was good, but he woke up more frequently.
I also learned from the woman who looks after him at daycare that he gets very upset if she leaves the room and he has to stay with one of the other caregivers. Is it common that a 22 month old would have separation anxiety?
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Another update:
My husband and I have been taking turns sleeping in Daniel's room for the past 5 nights. He has been improving - last night he slept through! I have a couple of questions though...
He gives me a harder time than my husband when going to sleep initially, or if he does wake up through the night. He'll stand up to check that I'm there more frequently than with my husband, and then he cries if I don't help him lie back down again (he's more than capable of doing that himself, and he does it himself for my husband). He has been trying to take more advantage of me in general lately (ie. with eating as well), so this seems to be a continuation of that. I am the one that (so far) has been dropping him off at daycare, so his "trust issues" are to do with me leaving him, not his father.
What should I do/say to him when he stands up in his crib? I don't want to continue to get up off the mattress to help him lie back down because the night that I did do that he stood up every 15 minutes from 1am - 2:30am, saying, "Help Mommy. Lie Down." Any suggestions?
Also, we are planning to go visit my parents this weekend. Should we continue to sleep in the room with him at their place too?
Thanks for your help!
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Hi Meredith,
We went through a very similar thing with our DS this summer. I think he's testing you, for sure. If it were me, I would stop "helping" him to lie down. If his issue is SA, then you can continue to sleep in the room, but when he wakes up - say "it's sleep time, lie down." and don't help him.
It's likely that he'll throw a fit if you don't "help" him lie down, but that's ok. He's just showing his frustration. Just stay in the room and stay on your "bed" and say things like "I know it's frustrating, but it's sleep time - lie down." He will eventually lie down and go to sleep. He might cry for a long time - but you have not left him - you are just letting him work it out, he is old enough to do that.
After you've got that sorted out, I would start moving your "bed" area away from his crib and into the hallway. With a kid his age, you can quickly get trapped into sleeping in his room for weeks and months. He's not going to like it, but just remember - you are not abandoning him - you are right there. You can talk to him and reassure him with your voice without leaving him to cry alone. I'd get started on that asap if I were you - my experience has been that the older they get the more "stubborn" they are in their protest ...
As for the weekend - you might *try* to let him sleep alone, it might be that the new/different place will be helpful in kind of "re-setting" his expectations that you will stay. But do be prepared to camp out in there if it doesn't work out.
Kate
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Thanks, that sounds like good advice.
If he wakes up through the night and we aren't sleeping in his room anymore, what should we do then? That's sort of how the whole thing escalated in the first place...stared with sitting with him while he was falling asleep, then he started waking more frequently at night to check if we were still there. Should I actually be lying in the hallway so that I can talk to him through the night if he wakes up? Would WI/WO work in this case?
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Meredith,
With sleep just like anything else - it depends on *how* your child is crying. If he is crying in pain or crying sounding like he's really scared or something, you'll handle that a lot differently than you would if he were throwing a tantrum because he can't have a cookie.
The most important thing is going to be to set out a plan and try to stick to it as well as you can. At his age it's more likely that he's testing your limits than having true SA. SA typically wouldn't last for more than a few weeks unless there were something happening to exasperate the situation - but with you guys sleeping in his room like you have been for as long as you have been, I think it's the former not the latter.
So here's what you might do:
Tonight and for the next 3 nights:
Put your bedding near his crib and go to sleep as normal
When he wakes, stay lying down and say "sssh...sleep time, lie down and go to sleep" don't get up, just keep talking to him. Expect that he will throw a major tantrum.
Make sure that you are not disrupting him getting himself back to sleep if/when he stirs by staying still and quiet unless he stands up and speaks to you/cries for you. Meaning don't respond at all unless he's crying - and then only respond with soothing, boring, reassuring words from your spot on the floor. Don't get into lengthy dialogs, or bargaining...keep it to one phrase: "sssshh. Sleep time, lie down and go to sleep." You can add "I'm right here" if you need/want to.
Night 4-6:
Move your bedding 1/2 way between his crib and the doorway. Repeat as above.
Night 7-9:
Move your bedding out of the door, just outside the door - keep the door open. Repeat as above.
After night 9 - the hope is that the wakes will have significantly slowed or gone away entirely...let's cross that bridge when you get to it! You can try Wi/Wo - but my experience has been that it just frustrates LOs this age much worse and makes matters much worse. I've had GREAT luck with it with older babies (eg 10-12 mos) but once you get into full-blown toddler hood, I have not had luck with it. What I've done is keep the same basic concept of Wi/Wo even with some Put Down for my toddler, but I've extended the time between visits to 1-2 minutes but ONLY when it's a tantrum cry that we're dealing with. (My DS will stand in the bed and yell at me angrily to come back! I don't respond to that...I do go back if he's sobbing and really truly upset) I can help you through that if it comes to that - but hopefully this Gradual Withdrawal will work for you and LO!
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Thanks so much Kate, we'll give it a try!
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Good luck Meredith! And I forgot to mention, don't be discouraged if a few nights in your LO starts to regress a bit, that's totally normal and to be expected just be SUPER consistent! :-*
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Meredith, also wanted to give you think link to a sleep training diary (GW) https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=104554.0
:)
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2 nights into this plan and we are doing alright...Daniel has slept through both nights until 5:30am. The first night he woke up and refused to go back to sleep, he threw a tantrum when I wouldn't get him out of his crib. My husband ended up getting him up because he was worried about disturbing the neighbours (we live in a townhouse). The second night he woke up at 5:30 again, but he did lie down until 6:00. I think he was kind of drifting in and out of sleep, but then the cat pushed the door open and came into his room, so that was the end of sleeping. Stupid cat.
I am right in thinking that until we have completed the gradual withdrawl we just deal with getting up so early, and then maybe try to fix that later?
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I meant to say "Am I right"!!!
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What time is a normal wake up under normal circumstances? He should be getting about 11 hours at night - I think (check that) - so I'd stick with the *plan* in the morning. You can keep saying, shhh sleep time if it's 5:30 especially since it's still dark at that hour.
Stupid cat! ;)
Meanwhile, I'm about to write my own post about bad sleep with my own toddler. Sigh. :)
Keep us posted, it does sound like things are going quite well! :) :)
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We need to get him up around 6:30am to have enough time to get ready in the morning, he's in bed by 7:30 each night. I'll try to convince my husband not to worry about the neighbours until they complain!
Good luck with your little guy!
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Remind DH that the crying sounds a lot worse to you guys than it does to the neighbors ;)
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Another update...
The last 2 nights have gone well. He's sleeping through, but waking up at 5:45am. I haven't had the energy to fight with him to lie down for 20-30 more minutes. If I do somehow find the energy, should I just let him cry (while I stay in the room, lying on the mattress) until it's time to get up? It seems like that would teach him that crying for long enough will make me get him out of bed. He's wide awake at that time, so I don't think there's much chance that he would go back to sleep anyway. Any ideas? I think I might try moving his bedtime to 7:00 rather than 7:30, to see if that makes any difference.
We're off to the grandparents' tonight...I hope we don't undo all that we've accomplished so far! :D
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Have you started to move the mattress away? If he's sleeping through (or even if he weren't) you should be close to out the door by now, I think?
I would just lie there and say sshhh, it's too early. You can say something like, lie down and find your teddy (or whatever) and just encourage him to be quiet. If he's really up - then turn on all the lights (painful as it might be) and start the day.
My experience has been that the extreme early wakes are pretty tough to get rid of while you're still in the room though. You might want to work first on getting all the way out of there and then see if the early wake doesn't take care of itself.
K
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I haven't moved the mattress yet because the room is quite small, so we are pretty jammed in there as it is! I'll be moving it to half in and half out of the door tonight, to see how that goes. At the grandparents' house on the weekend I lay down with my LO as he fell asleep, but I didn't stay in the room through the night. He slept through until 5:30 and then my Mom got up with him (Gramma is awesome!!!!!). I did the same thing when we got home last night and he actually slept until 6:00 this morning. He even talked to himself for awhile in his crib, he didn't start crying right away like he would do when I was in his room with him. So hopefully moving the mattress will help with falling asleep and waking up later!
Any tips on the half-in/half-out nights? Should I stay there the whole night, or should I keep doing what I have been doing? He's never slept with the door open, so I have a feeling that that is going to be an exciting event for him! ::) Maybe I'll keep the rest of the house in darkness until he falls asleep!
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Yes, I'd keep it dark. You want it to be as much the same when he goes to sleep as it will be when he wakes up in the night. So if there's a hall light on or something when he goes to sleep and then that light is off if he wakes in the night - that's not ideal.
If he's been ok the past 2 nights with you not staying in there - I'd say sleep in your own bed and only go back to the mattress if he wakes up.
Woo Hoo!!
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We've had a bit of a regression... :-\
The first night of half-in/half-out of the door went well - no night wakings. But the second night...not so much. My LO woke at 12:30 crying "Mommy lie down" (I had gone back to my bed and closed his door when he fell asleep). He did that again at 5:20. I lay down on the mattress again until he drifted off, then went back to my bed but left his door open. He stayed in bed until 6:50. (Another thing that was different last night was that my husband was away for work, a very uncommon thing.)
So I guess my question is should I stay on the mattress all night? Put the mattress all the way in the hallway? I do not want to go back to night wakings!!! :D
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He might not be ready for you to leave quite yet. Once you came back, he went B2S right? Can you just get up and leave without pulling his door shut? The shut door might be more alarming to him than seeing that you're not on the mattress, KWIM?
I don't know why I'm giving advice when I spent 4 hours sleeping on the floor last night, no blanket, no air mattress, one sad pillow from the guest room :P
But seriously - sounds like he might not be quite ready for you to go yet. Let us know how it goes tonight, if DH is home, he might feel better, you know?
K
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Kate, I think you're right...it was the change in how the room was when he fell asleep compared to when he woke up (ie. door open to fall asleep, then closed when he woke up). Last night I lay down in his room with him again, with the door closed, until he fell asleep. Then I snuck out and didn't hear anything from him until 6:15 this morning. :) Hooray!
Now I just have to figure out how to get the mattress out of his room! I think my next plan of attack will be that I do the same tonight as last night, then on the weekend try moving the mattress all the way into the hallway and keep his door closed as he's falling asleep, but be there to talk to him if he needs it. I'll keep my fingers crossed!
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Congrats!!
Try turning the monitor around so he can hear you talking through it - that might be a good way to reassure without being in the room. I think Kelly had a post about this sticky'ed. Brilliant idea!!
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Well, moving the mattress all the way into the hallway didn't work so well. :P
I showed my LO where I would be lying down, then put him into his crib and he freaked out when I tried to leave the room. He was doing a scared cry rather a mad one, so I caved and moved the mattress back into his room. I couldn't even calm him down after that though, he wanted Daddy to lie down with him then! So Daddy did, and LO went to sleep. We'll see if he sleeps through the night...
I hate that scared cry...it gets me every time. :'(
What do you think I should do????
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Is he showing signs of SA during the day as well?
Do you have a nightlight in his room?
Does he have a lovey?
I'm really surprised that he freaked like that....hmmm...
So, are you still lying down with him every night at bed time, and staying all night - or are you sleeping in your own bed coming back to the mattress only if/when necessary?
If you're sleeping in your own bed, and he's sleeping through the night just fine, you might just leave well enough alone for a while. Then, in a week or maybe longer...just pack up the air mattress one day when LO is not around to see you do it. If he asks, just tell him that it's put away. Then at night, stay with him till he falls asleep (or whatever you're doing) and more than likely, he'll sleep all night if he has been!
If you guys are still sleeping all night on the mattress, try ditching back to your own bed so that you can get yourself to the point where you're only going in if you have to.
Let me know!
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I can't tell if he's showing signs of separation anxiety or just generally being whiny. ::) There are times when I think he's still worried about the smoke detector, but it's so hard to tell sometimes. He doesn't have a nightlight in his room, he does have a lovey.
The situation right now isn't all that bad. My husband or I lay down with him until he falls asleep, and then we are able to sneak out and spend the rest of the night in our own bed. There have been a few nights where he has woken up once through the night, but falls back to sleep pretty quickly after one of us goes back in to lie down on his floor (we can sneak out again after he falls asleep). He's been sleeping until 6:00. So overall, I know it could be much worse! We are getting good night sleeps. I think we will just stick with what we're doing right now, like you suggested, and then try to switch to sitting in his room, rather than lying down.
Baby steps....right?!?! ::)
Kate, how are things going with your LO?
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Sounds like a good plan. There's nothing wrong with staying with LO until he falls asleep unless it's causing a constant disruption in night time sleep because of it becoming a prop! You'll know when/if that happens.
Thanks for asking - things are *ok* last night was not a great night, but the nights before that were just fine for 3 nights in a row. Our DS is waking in the night and then throwing a full-blown tantrum if we don't stay with him. I'm not sure what's causing it, very strange. Will just have to keep hanging in there, I guess. The thing that's killing me is the early wakes - he's been getting up at 5:45 every morning for a few weeks, and that's just TOO early!!
I may end up posting again if we don't get it sorted out soon :)
Glad things are better for you Meredith! Great job!
K