BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Mama2boys on March 05, 2008, 10:09:08 am
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Ladies,
some of you know what I have been going through wrt NW etc so I will not repeat that but only tell you whats happenning now.
So I had been strictly following the 4 am diluted feed and proper feed on waking up routine. this had led to a slightly eralier wake-up time for DS 6:30 instead of 7:30) as he used to wake up for a proper feed. daytime sleep has been consistent at 2/2.25 hrs 2 naps - am nap is 1hr 15/30 and pm nap is abt 1 hr.
I had been giving him medised for the last week or so for his croup and teething, but last 2-3 nights (i have not given him medised or any medi, just bonjela on his gums), he has been waking up at about 11/11:30 and does not go back to sleep for 2-3 hrs, wants to be picked up, is very sleepy, falls asleep but then wakes up crying not fussing but howling every 10-20 minutes.
2 nights (not consecutive - bad croup nights) I did AP and brought him into my bed, I had no energy at all...and that might have made things a bit worse, buts scone last night I have been using PD WI/WO and after 3 hrs we both blacked out....didn't know where the problem is or what to do.
he falls asleep for his naps and night sleep with too much fuss, I read to him in bed and he just turns over and sleeps when he is ready, so not sure its an OT issue. bedtime is pretty much the same every day, the wake-up time is a bit mixed up anything between 6:30-7:30, because of the sleep training and feed issue.
i am almost wishing I had never started sleep training I was happier getting up 2 times giving him milk and letting him go right back to sleep. At least I managed some sleep, this is impossible.
it has taken a lot of energy and courage to post this as I feel guilty of taking everyones time and energy..but don't know who else to turn to.
Mukta
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Do NOT feel guilty! None of us would be here if we did not want to give and receive help. Lecture over. ;)
I'm running on too little sleep as well today, so just dropping off a ton of hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-* :-*
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Oh Mukta- we've all been there. I'm sending you lots of ((((hugs)))). If he falls asleep easily for naps and bedtime, it seems he can't get himself back to sleep when he wakes. Up for 2-3 hours at night sounds like OT to me, so I would put him to bed earlier.
I'm going to let other more experienced moms give you better advice.
Until then, hang in there.
Leslie
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Thanks Jenn and Leslie,
I'll try and get him into bed a little earlier, but he is always in bed by 7 and doe snot fall asleep till 7:30, just keeps wanting me to read to him and turn the pages....do you think I should increase his daytime naps? he is doing 1.15 and 1 hr at presnet.
Thanks,
Mukta
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Mukta,
What does his day look like right now? When does he go to bed, wake, and nap and for how long? That'll help me give any advice.
Leslie
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Hi Leslie,
Today was like below:
5:45 am milk and sleep
7:30am wake up
8:30 am bfast
9:30 - 10:45 nap
11am snack
1pm dinner
2pm milk
2:30 - 3:30 nap
5:30 dinner
6:30 bath
7pm milk and bed by 7:15
7:45pm fell asleep.
More often that not the day stays pretty consistent and he does fall asleep by 7:30.
On some mornings especially when he wake sup around 4am and i give him diluted milk feed he wakes up for the day at 6:30 and has a full feed. On those days he still falls asleep only at 7:30 and I try and compensate by letting him sleep an extra 15 minutes or so, basically from am nap the latest I wake him up is at 11 and pm nap 3:30.
Thank you for offering help
Mukta
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Mukta-
Your day looks good to me...
Does he always wake at 5:45am? If so, you could try W2S about an hour earlier for a few days.
As far as the NWs, is it possible he's moving towards 1 nap? It seems like he's getting about 12+ hours a day, which is a little on the low side but some kiddos need less.
How recent are the NWs? And did the EW just start?
Sorry I don't know if I'm much help- more questions than answers :-\
Leslie
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Any idea what would happen if you let him sleep as long as he wants for his naps? Do you think he would sleep too long in the morning and then refuse pm nap - is that why you wake him? (Sorry should have a look at your other posts! Will do that now :))
Have to say I am not a big fan of waking LOs from naps, especially when OT. I know some LOs need less sleep but you should really be looking at around 13 hours minimum at his age, most are needing 13.5.
Also in my experience, a *slightly* earlier bedtime doesn't make a whole lot of difference as they often just stay awake until normal time. A *much* earlier bedtime (like an hour or so earlier) can often restore sanity - early bedtimes saved my life ;D
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Mukta I'm sure I've asked you this before, but what's his temperment?
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mukta, first of all massive hugs, i know you don't have much energy to keep posting about this but glad you did. we will get to the bottom of this if it takes everybody here! ;) xxx
second, just thinking out loud, i was wondering if the way you are putting him to bed could be a little bit of a prop situation? in other words he is used to having you there reading him to sleep, and then when he wakes in the night he wants you to be doing something to help him sleep as well?
also i am sorry to ask as you've probably said this before but when he wakes in the night and wants to be picked up, what next? does he then relax to sleep in your arms, or does he want to be picked up and play?
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ahh ladies you are the best, here are the answers:
1. He does not always wake up at 5:45, it varies anything from 3-6, if he wakes up closer to 3 or 4, i give diluted feed as am trying to wean him off the NW for milk, but if he wakes up close to 6 I give him proper bottle and let him go back to sleep.
2. His NW have been around for a few months and were essentially for milk, he had got use to 2 bottles in the night. He would take the bottle and go back to sleep. The EW are a result of sleep training him and getting rid of the bottles, or at least trying to.
3. never tried letting him sleep and wake up on his own, I have a feeling he would sleep for a long nap and it would affect his night sleep. Ds was completely lawless till about 5 months and the only I was able to put him into a BW day was by fixing his meal times and gently coaxing his with the sleep times as well.
I could try and See what happens if I just don't wake him up, but I am so scared of making it even worser than it is right now and not being able to fix it.
5. he is spirited with a little bit of touchy I think.
6. When he wake sup in the night and wants to be picked he will relax and fall asleep in the arms and wake up as soon as i put him down. Lats night when I did not pick him up and did PD he would fall asleep and then wake up suddenly...it was as if he was really sleepy but not comfortable. He wanted to hold my hand as well. Maybe I have become a prop but for the day naps the nanny puts him to bed and at times he does not need anyone to read to him, he will play with his books and lie down when he is ready. He uses a pacifier, which I sadly introduced when I tried to stop nursing him to sleep.
Hope these answers help you guide me.
Thanks,
Mukta
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Have just read your other thread - it looks to me like your boy has got seriously OT. When you started sleep training he obviously had more disturbed nights and so less night sleep, but he hasn't been able to catch up because his naps are usually limited and his bedtime has not got any earlier. Now that people are recommending that you shorten naps still further I think you are risking things getting worse and not better :-\
My suggestion (and I know it doesn't fit with the other advice you've been given) is just to let him sleep as much as he needs for a few days. Much of the NW is (IMO) to do with him being very OT. An early bedtime is absolutely vital for sorting this out - maybe if you post an example of what your day looks like we could think about what might work.
I hope this doesn't confuse matters too much. Sounds like you're making progress with eliminating the 4am feed by diluting it but the new NW problems do seem to be about OT rather than feeding issues. He *might* be heading towards switching to one nap but he also might not - when he's this OT it's really difficult to tell.
Laura x
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Hi Laura,
You might just be right and at present I am willing to give anything a shot, so could certainly let him sleep as long as he wants for a few days and see how it goes. How many days should I give?
wrt you asking what my day looks like, I am assuming you are asking about Ds daily routine, which is earlier in this post itself...I have tried to make his night sleep time a little earlie but just cant make it work.
Also as an FYI DS has been a poor eater, and only now with the schedules I posted earlier in this thread have his mealtime become half decent, I think food wise I have just about managed a good level of gaps between meals, enough for him to be hungry to eat a decent meal.
Thanks
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3. never tried letting him sleep and wake up on his own, I have a feeling he would sleep for a long nap and it would affect his night sleep.
Believe it or not, I would actually recommend doing that for a few days. That would give you a solid idea of how much sleep he would naturally do in a day.
5. he is spirited with a little bit of touchy I think.
Just to warn you Mukta, Colin is spirited too, and sleep training tends to take longer with that temperment. Plus consistency is even more important.
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I would go cold turkey on the night feed. I know it's hard but I think that there are too many props for him to fall asleep to. If I'm reading correctly, he falls asleep when you are next to him, is that right?
If so, then he is still not independantly sleeping, he either falls asleep with you there or with a bottle.
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luke is spirited with a touch of touchy too! and i agree......spirited children are not known for their easy going to sleep skills.
since your ds falls asleep in your arms when you pick him up i am thinking he has not really taught himself to get comfortable easily on his own. he is using you (or a bottle) to get comfortable and go back to sleep.
i am also thinking the first thing that needs to go is the bottle and i would also go cold turkey. definitely respond to him when he is crying and try to soothe him, but not with a bottle.
and then obviously you have to work on him needing to be soothed by you to get back to sleep. can your dh help you with this?
also have you read this thread about weaning props: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0 ?
maybe like jess and laura say, you can give him a few days to just catch up on day sleep. so do that thurs and fri, and then work more on sleep training in the weekend when you have more time and hopefully some more energy. would that work for you guys?
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Hi jess, Mari, Jessica and Laura,
your guidance is invaluable...lets begin with DH not being able to help as he end up rocking DS and thats a disaster. and since DS knows DH will pick him up even if he sees DH thats it, there goes all my sleep training so its me or nothing.
Ok so now DS is pretty much of the 1:30 midnight bottle. he work up around then lats night, got the pacifier and was back to sleep. But the 4:45ish feed is a whole different story, nothing pacifies him, no amount of back rubbing, patting or anything at all, so instead of waking him up completely I just let him have the diluted milk, which gets him back to bed but then he is up at 6:30 for a proper feed and just cant go back to sleep, and here lies the problem.
I studied all his daily routines from last week and early this week. and the days he is up at 6:30 he takes his am nap later and i think part of it might be OT issues as then he gets only abt 11 hrs night sleep. and just another additional 15-20 mins day sleep, so not enough to cover.
The choices in front of me are as below:
1. go cold turkey on the 4:45 feed and accept that he will start the day at 6:30 and let him sleep a little more during the day?
2. Give him the feed at 4:45 and then everyone sleep OK till 7:30, and stick to existing routine
I almost know the answer to the question actually....:(
OK so plan from today: will let him sleep as much as he likes in the day and see how the night works out. Will be a bit of a problem as I have to go for a day trip to Germany at leave home at 5:45am tomorrow, but will manage. Go cold turkey on the 4:45 feed and let the day start anytime after 6...
Hopefully my understanding of all your guidance is OK and I have a plan now.
BTW I seriously did not know that me reading to him and him falling asleep when he is ready is a prop :( i thought since I don't touch him and at times he can fall asleep reading on his won thats good enough. What a disaster as parent I am
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BTW I seriously did not know that me reading to him and him falling asleep when he is ready is a prop :( i thought since I don't touch him and at times he can fall asleep reading on his won thats good enough. What a disaster as parent I am
Oh mukta please don't think this! I know for a fact from previous threads that you are so head over heels in love with that little boy and doing everything you can for him, please don't beat yourself up. The reading is not a terrible prop but it just sounds like when you and or DH are home he just wants to fall asleep while you are there, kwim?
Is there any way to get your DH on the same page and committed to the sleep training so that you two can share the burden? When you really get into it consistency will be the key, and having some support will probably be impt for you.
Going to pm you now, i want to send you something xx
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Hi Mukta,
Your plan sounds really sensible to me. I would give him a week of sleeping as long as he wants during the day as that should be enough to get an idea of what his normal sleeping pattern is and also allow him to compensate for the loss of any night sleep because of tackling his night feeding habit.
You're doing a great job - no-one who spends this much time, care and energy focusing on their child can possibly be described as a disastrous parent!! I definitely agree that getting DH on board will make a massive difference to you in getting through this sticky patch. I'm not saying you can't do it on your own, but you will be a much happier bunny for being able to share the load.
Laura x
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Thanks Laura,
DS has been sleeping like a log...slept 1hr 45 min for the am nap and pm nap is already 1.5hrs...now i am concerned that the night will be awful, but lets keep fingers crossed.
Will also tackle Dh tonight and see if he can get his act together...
btw for the pm nap DS justlay down and was left alone on his bed and fell asleep....so as soon as he lies down and shuts his eye we leave him alone..and if he starts fussing WI/WO else bliss :D
will let you all know how it goes tomorrow...
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Good luck, fingers crossed here!!! xxxx
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You're doing all the right things Mukta - it might be a bumpy ride and his nights may not settle for a while yet so hang in there.
:-*
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pm nap is longer than 2 hrs now should i still not wake him up? he woke up at the 2 hr mark...totally his day tiem sleep to 3 hr 45 minutes....and his normal naps use dto be 2 hr 15 or 2 hr 30, but since he lost his 1 hr am nap by waking up at 6:30 instead of 7:30 he has made up his sleep for today and a little more.......
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What a disaster as parent I am
If you ever say that again Mukta I'm going to kick you in the shin!!
Seriously, if I were to list all the AP and mistakes I made in Colin's first year I'm sure I'd have you beat.
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Thanks Jessica, you are such a doll! But honestly having a baby has pulled my confidence down a couple of notches!
But anyways on the brighter side...I let DS sleep as much as he wanted, i think he made up for the lack of am sleep due to 6:30 wake up, went to sleep as usual on 7:30pm and best of all I did WI/WO and it worked. I did a bit of GW as well, in the sense that I'd calm him by putting my hand on him and slowly move out of the room and then the WI/WO. Hope thats not wrong as I really want to get it right this time!
Well will let you know how tonight and tomorrow goes ladies. :)
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Mukta,
have just read through your post. hope tonight goes well! was thinking that maybe he went down for pm nap so easily cos he'd been able to catch up on sleep during am nap and so was less ot?
Will be interesting to see how he sleeps tonight.
From everything I know about you you seem like a lovely person and a brilliant, loving mum, so don't beat yourself up about things! thinking of you and sending lots of hugs!
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Thanks Vicku, you are so kind. All of you lovely ladies are so kind. Really I am so happy to have found out about this community I only wish I had known earlier. I have been telling absolutely everyone who I know and is pregnant about BW.
I think you are right, the extra sleep probably helped and lets hope tonight goes well. at least I am full of hope today :D
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I feel the same! Wish I'd known about it as dd was born! Am sure things would have been different then...
Anyway, lots of goodnight hugs to you and sleepy vibes to that little boy of yours :-*
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Great that he went down OK at bedtime despite the long naps - it's a promising start if nothing else!
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But honestly having a baby has pulled my confidence down a couple of notches!
Me too. :-*
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Hi Mukta,
I soo hope you had a better night last night..
I def agree with the girls about letting DS sleep on a bit for naps in order to catch up on his sleep.
Would you be able to take some holiday from work to start the sleep training? This is what I did with DS at Christmas as it's too exhausting to sleep train in the beginning when you have to go to work.
Then, if I were you, when you are feeling really determined and strong, I would get rid of ALL props - 4am feed AND the dummy (might as well have him crying the once!) and start sleep training . I would also read the bedtime story in a chair in his room so he is completely awake when you put him in his cot.
I have been 'sleep training' (but with lots of AP thrown in )DS since he was about 13 mo old (when I found out about BW :'( if only I'd known sooner :() but it was only at Christmas when I decided ENOUGH was ENOUGH - I mean, he was 2 yrs old and still waking 3 or 4 times per night :o :o.
It took about 2 weeks for those multiple NWs to become 1 NW and then another 2 weeks for the NW to vanish altogether. I reckon it will take you even less time as your DS is younger.
We didn't have a night feed to get rid of, but we had lots of crying initially cos he was so used to coming in our bed during the night. Almost every night I used to start with good intentions - doing WI/WO and then cave in in the early hours when I was too tired to carry on ::)
If only I had been so consistent last year - I would look 10 years younger now :D
I wish I was in the U.K - I would come and do the first couple of nights for you - in return for a large cappuccino in Harvey Nicks!!
You can do it Mukta - if I have trained Nick the Greek at 2yrs - you can surely train your DS ;) We will all be here to support you every step of the way. You have to think of it like this - what's 2 weeks of hell if it means you will all be getting a good night's sleep?
Decide on a date and we will be there!!
Lots of love,
Lis xx
Jessica - love the photo of Colin ;D Is he eating pizza in his jim jams? He even looks guilty ;D
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How did last night go hun?
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Jessica - love the photo of Colin ;D Is he eating pizza in his jim jams? He even looks guilty ;D
Yes he sure was. ::) ILs were babysitting, and they actually emailed me photos! ;)
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Jessica - love the photo of Colin ;D Is he eating pizza in his jim jams? He even looks guilty ;D
Yes he sure was. ::) ILs were babysitting, and they actually emailed me photos! ;)
Hilarious! Bet that happens at my parents... ::)
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Jessica - love the photo of Colin ;D Is he eating pizza in his jim jams? He even looks guilty ;D
Yes he sure was. ::) ILs were babysitting, and they actually emailed me photos! ;)
Hilarious! Bet that happens at my parents... ::)
I just can't believe they actually voluntarily sent me photographic evidence! But hey that's what grandparents are for right?
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okay ladies, last night was a bit better..but the morning got messed up. So I think OT was certainly at play.
DS slept as expected at 7:30pm...woke up at abt 4 for pacifier and ..back to sleep, but then he woke up at 5 and just would not go back to sleep. cried and cried and howled..I kept trying to pacify him till 5:30 and then just gave in and gave him his bottle of feed he had 6oz and back to slept till 7:30.
I probably should not have given in at 5:30 but carried on pacifying or trying to pacify him for some more time, but had to leave for the airport and DH was not helping at all, he does not believe in sleep training... thinks DS will grow out of it.
But I gave in because it almost felt like CIO, DS would not stop for a millisecond, just cried and cried for about 30min straight...me petting him, rubbing his belly just did not work, he would throw the pacifier out, water was also rejected.........could it really be hunger? How do I differentiate between habit and anger and hunger?
Anyways lets See how tonight goes, if any of you ladies is online please let me know what you think I should do about the feed in the morning should I hang in there and keep trying to pacify him till a respectable hour of 6:30am? or should I give him a feed after 5/5:30am as it might just be hunger?
Oh Lis, I hear you about getting him rid of pacifier at the same time, but without DH supporting me its really hard, I am hoping that once DS can communicate Little more I will ask him to give up the pacifier...I really don't have the energy to deal with all the issues alone. Work is miserable right now ant taking time off will be really hard.
btw Harvey Nicks is round the corner..well not literally but quite close, I'll get you a cappuccino every day, many times a day if you can sort DS out....
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Is he talking at all yet Mukta? How much does he understand of what you say to him?
Have you tried giving him water in the early morning instead of milk?
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he does not talk at all..just babbles a bit, but he understands a lot, at least I think so.
I have tried water, he will take a sip and then push the bottle away quite angrily and continue crying....
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Well it does seem that he's genuinely hungry eh? :-\ 6 oz is a fair bit to take, especially at his age.
Have you been talking to him about how night time is for sleeping and daytime is for eating, etc., anything like that?
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When you do WIWO, it can be heartbreaking, it's awful listening to them crying and not picking them up, it made me feel so guilty. Please, please tell yourself that if you give up then it will all be for nothing, all his tears, all your tears are for nothing. And you are not leaving him, you are teaching him that you are there for him, no matter what, but now is the time to go to sleep. Say that to him if you think that it will help you and if you think he will understand.
What he will realsie, eventually, is that you are there, and will be there and stay when he needs you, but he must go to sleep until mummy comes when it's time to wake up.
Alex used to take nine ounces 3 times a night, sometimes she would head the bottle then throw it up again! sometimes she would keep it down. All I know is, she doesn't need it now, not since she has been sleep trained and if you are sure that he is eating enough and he is gaining weight then he shouldn't need it, but perhaps check with your Doc just to be sure :-\
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yes ....but he is obviously ignoring that bit of my chattering ;) I thank I will need to increase my talking bout difference betwen night and day with him...
Another reason that makes me thinks he was hungry was the fact that he sucked the bottle dry, normally getting him to take 4oz is a pain!
but just the kind of cry...with previous NW he would take water and go back to sleep or maybe the pacifier would also work for 5/10 minute but it just wouldn't yesterday.
So its almost like he has given up the 1am feed and no NW but wants milk at 5/5:30? where is the manual he should have come with?
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Hi Mari,
I'll check with the doc, but the last time I did he just gave me an indefinate answer that some kids are like that....and some babie sslepe thorugh form the first month!
previous NW DS would take a max of 4oz....
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So its almost like he has given up the 1am feed and no NW but wants milk at 5/5:30? where is the manual he should have come with?
Oh, I wish there was one! BWSAYP is the closest thing to one i think!
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where is the manual he should have come with?
I still wish I had one! ;) BW is a good manual though!
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How does he eat in the day hun? Could you also try upping calories in the day?
I hear ya about the dummy thing... you don't have to do it all at once to make him sleep better if you feel you don't have the energy. For some people it might work really well but IMO it might be a bit too traumatic for LO to loose all his security props at once. Maybe I'm just soft, but that's what I would feel if it was my LO. My DD has dummies in bed only and she slept great for ages, just had few problems lately with 2-1 nap switch and OT, but generalyy she's a great sleeper and settles herself brilliantly. Dummies aren't really a prop after babies learn to put them back in themselves anyway, and to help DS realise he can soothe himself with the dummy, you can put the dummy in his hand when you put him in bed rather than in his mouth and let him put it in himself.
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thats true BW is as close to a manual as could be....in the next baby model, I'd also reccommend a gauge that shows how empty or full their bellies are...I think I could do with a bit of baby redesign ;)
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good idea vicku, I'll let him Pitt it back in and maybe guide his hand to a pacifier so he gets the idea.
he eats well during the day and in fact past few days his appetite has actually got better...i can't compare to other kids, but just comparing what his quantity of intake was in the past and now. I try to make dinners quite filling with heavy stuff such as chicken, egg, avocado etc.
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Hi Mukta
I'm glad you had a better night and hope it continues. Just dropping off some {hugs} really. It's great that it's helping him to catch up on the sleep he's been missing since you started sleep training, I'd just be careful to make sure you gradually cut back to a level that works for him once he's caught up so he doesn't get into the habit of sleeping loads in the day and not needing it at night. He seems to have had croup for a long time (both mine tend to only have one night where it's bad), do you think it's worth taking him back to the doctor for a checkup? I hope I haven't worried you by saying that, it's not my intention.
Kelly x
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No Kelly no worries at all, he is actually much better and almost back to normal, so no cough etc. I do think that his normal sleep pattern is 2 naps of about 2hr and 15 minutes and will try and slowly level him off there, but lets see how the pattern works out for another few days.
Thanks for all you hugs ladies.
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So pleased he's almost better :)
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so ladies, whats should I do about the morning feed...give in at about 5/5:30 or keep trying to pacify him...how long should I keep trying? How long should I let him cry while I try to pacify him?
And will I mess it up more in terms of sleep training if i have to keep petting him for an hr or so to take him from the 5am to 6/6:30am feed time? This morning I could not even think of WIWO as he would just not calm down.
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It's up to you how long you think he can last and how well you think that you can do it for. But, if you are going to give in and offer him the feed then I would start the day, that way he will not be confused as to thinking he can wake and get a bottle of milk and then go back to sleep, KWIM, after all, he doesnt know the time, as far as he knows it's the middle of the night, he's calling mum, gets a bottle, goes back to sleep. If you give him the bottle then get him up and dressed then he will realise that he gets a bottle of milk at wakeup time.
Then it's over to the thread. 'how to stop the early wakeups!' But it's a start!
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Yeah, that's probably a good idea Mari. We're up at that time anyway these days ::) does seem like that will stop him expecting feeds in the middle of sleep. Would need a super early bedtime for a while though I should think. At least we've all got daylight saving time coming up soon eh?
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hmmm goood point mari.
ok off to bed I go, will let you know how tomorrow goes. Thanks and good night ladies have a good weekend!
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Me too... mmmm, bed ;D Keep us posted love!
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Hi Mukta,
I agree with PPs that you could try to up his food intake all throughout the day.
You could try WI/WO when he wakes in the morning and if that doesn't work, you could get up( I know it's early!) and play for a bit before you give him his milk. It's a problem we had (oh, we've 'ad 'em all here!!) and how I cured DS was by getting up and giving him breakfast rather than milk. That way he stopped associating wake up with a bottle - their bodies work like clocks!!
But really you could leave this problem til last. Getting him to stop the NWs is priority first.
I also had the same problem with DH and the NWs. DH (and all the mafia family) thought DS woke all night cos I put him to bed too early ::) LOs here go to bed with their parents - around 11pm :P But that's another story....
So, I have never had any help sleep training - but since I was always the one to get up all night I just resigned myself to doing it alone!!
We did cold turkey with the dummy when DS was 13 mo cos he was waking at night to be re plugged. It took 12 days - less than I thought. If the dummy is not a prop (i.e he doesn't wake at night to be re- plugged) then that's one less problem - what do you think?
And as Mari said, it's impossible to sleep train without tears :'( Yours and his :'(
Many a time I cried while doing WI/WO (mainly cos I was soo tired) and cos I felt soo alone and unsupported by DH. But, as the nights go on, the crying will get less and less.
Remember, he will only be crying because it's not the usual way to go back to sleep - not because he's unhappy or hungry (probably)
What do you think?
I'm coming over to the U.K on the 21st July for 6 weeks ;D ;D - but I think you will have cracked it by then ;)
Jessica - I totally agree - that's what grandparents are for ;D I still have fond memories of my grandparents allowing me to do 'naughty' things when I stayed with them!!
Lis
:-*
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Morning Mukta
How was last night?
My approach with early wakings has always been to do whatever to get them back to sleep, even if that means a feed, as an early feed should be easier to get rid of (by dilluting it) than an early waking caused by reinforcing that 5/5.30 is the time we start our day. Like most things it's up to you which approach you take. You must be offering a very dilluted feed by now, how much formula/water is he having at that waking and is he making up for what you've taken away when he wakes for the day? If you're pretty much there I think I'd give him some water in his cot so he has the option of helping himself and do wi/wo until a more appropriate time to start the day, even if you decide that's 6am rather than 7/7.30am, then get him up and make it really obvious it's morning by being jolly, opening the curtains etc. and either giving breakfast first or milk downstairs amongst the action!
Kelly x
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Hi Ladies,
last night went OK, we had a couple of NW because of the pacifier....Ds woke up at 5, I patted, WIWO him back to sleep and he slept till 6:30 and woke up and got his milk :D So almost a perfect night.
Fingers crossed for today.
I agree with you Kelly wrt EW, I hear you Lis, but I am just so scared of falling from one trap to another...been doing that for so long, so am really weary....thought I do like your idea about bfast instead of milk..will need to see if I can work it into my routine.
So that all the news from my end, lets hope today works as well. btw Have stopped reading Ds to sleep and the PD pat WIWO routine is doing ok... will let you know how tomorrow goes.
btw Lis, lets hope I am still in London when you come over, I promise you a coffee or 2! but fingers crossed that DS is sorted out by then :D
Mukta
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Aww, thanks Mukta :-* I'll hold you to a coffee or a G&T!!
My mum lives in Biggleswade, Bedford so it's only 25 mins on a fast train to Kings Cross - but I'm sure you'll have the rascal sorted by the summer ;)
What is it with boys?!! :D
Glad you had a better night - lets hope tonight is just as good ;)
BTW, we do breakfast and then milk (which he always drinks as he looves his milk!) - you could try it to break the waking for milk thing!
Well, I'm off to beebyes now - we're 2 hours ahead of you!
:-* :-*
Lis
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That's great, hopefully he's made up for it during today and won't need the milk early tomorrow morning either. ;D
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I'm just going to throw this thought out there (and many apols if it sounds a bit hardline!)
Do you think that he cries when you don't give him milk at 5am because he is SOOO hungry that it makes him scream? Or do you think he cries when you don't give him milk because he likes having milk then, that is what he is used to, and crying/screaming for long enough usually results in him getting milk?
I know the sensation of feeling hungry can be irritating but I find it hard to imagine that a LO of his age who is eating and drinking well during the day feels as though he is genuinely starving (i.e. hungry enough to scream to get food) at that time in the morning. Even if he *feels* like that, you know he's far from starving and you won't be damaging him in the slightest by making him wait.
I think if you can stick to your guns (as thoroughly unpleasant as it is to have to withhold something from your child that you know will stop them from crying) and have a 'no milk before 6' (or 6:30 or whatever is your preferred earliest time to start your day), then his body will have the chance to readjust to not *expect* (as opposed to *need*) nourishment before that time.
Once you have the first bottle of the day, and therefore wake up, at a reasonable hour, you can then start putting a bit of space in between wake up and feeding. You could start with simply a nappy change first, then a few days later add in getting dressed or a little play time. That way you can extend the time at which his body is expecting food and *hopefully* he will start waking a little later accordingly.
Alternatively, you can wait until the clocks go forward and do a great big happy dance that your LO now wakes at 7am for his first bottle ;D
Hopefully all the above sounds as reasonable written down as it does in my head!
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Hi MammaHolmes,
You POV is not hard hadrlines at all. I think you are spot on. And the few doubts I had about hunger vs habit were taken care of by the fact that DS managed to sleep through to 6:30am this morning...there were NW but we managed them without any bottles - milk or water. So its not desperate hunger for sure.
I will stick to my guns for as long as I can, and am hoping to stay with the 6am and after rule and once the clock changes it will become 7am anyways :D
so your thoughts are well appreciated and actually help boost my confidence. Its really easy to doubt yourself with LO's, but helpful people like you all keep putting me back on track.
Thanks!
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I'm so glad you took that in the way in which it was meant!! It's so easy to tread on people's emotional toes, IYKWIM, when conversing with text and not talking face to face.
You have totally got the right attitude and I am confident that if you can stick to it through the fog of early morning wakeups (cos that is the hard bit) then you will very quickly have it cracked.
You can do it!!
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Sound like an improvement Mutka. how are the bedtimes going without you being there? Is he able to settle himself?
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Hi Mukta!
Just checking in on how you're getting on. Had a friend stay for a couple of days so not had time to be on here... glad to hear things have been ok. Think it sounds like a good plan not giving in to milk before 6. That's how we got rid of EW feed (still have EW tho ::) and I'm also waiting for the clocks to go forward...) When you feel sure that it's not hunger but just habit it is easier to stick to your guns and work towards later wake up times. Hope things will continue to improve!
Lots of hugs!
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Happy to hear he slept until 6.30am - that's progress ;) and as you say when the clocks go forward, it will be a perfect waking time ;)
And, fabo news that the NWs were without any milk - this really is a great start - well done ;D
Hope tonight will be even better :-* :-*
Lis
x
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Hello ladies,
sorry for not having [posted yesterday, it just rolled into one of those days....
Anyways the good news first - DS doe snot want milk in the night along,r he gets up at about 6 and I know he desperately wants milk, so that when he gets a whole bottle :d and back to sleep till 7:30. This suits me fine with getting ready for work etc and is working well for us. When the time changes I will just Wake him up right after the milk so slowly the association between milk and sleep will go away and hopefully it will all work out. Now thats my plan, not necessarily his ;)
Now the bad news, he has taken to waking up at 11:30 (by the clock) and 3:30/4am for a cry, normally ha the pacifier in his hand or mouth, doe snot even want water and have certainly not offered milk, I lay him down and pat him and as soon as he starts settling slowly walk away form him and he is back to sleep, though this PD WIWO might need 2-3 iterations. Any idea why and what to do.
My first thought was W2S, but thought I'd check in with you lot before I do anything. So please do advise.
Lis: thanks for the encouragements, I am desperate for the clocks to change :D
Vicku: you too thanks for encouraging me on, and am Glad you had a good time while your friend was over, it's so nice to have a break form the routine!
Mari: You have been such an inspiration, thanks for being there at every stage. Unfortunately bedtime are not going all that well, He will be in the process of falling of to sleep and then he will turn back to look for me and not See me there and start crying so PD WIWO is required about 3-4-5 times before he actually doses off. But I am trying to be strong, no pickup at all, if I give him a hug i bend into his bed and hug him. As soon as he starts settling I slowly start backing out off the room.
I read with the lights full on and then switch lights off and put away books, so no reading to sleep.
mammholmes: I would never ever take anything anyone ever said on this forum in a bad manner, this place is built of selfless well meaning nd helpful parents....one can't ask for better friends and family!
You guys have totally made this worthwhile,. form a point where I thought I could never do this, to now where I see the end of the tunnel, not just the light..its amazing and because of each one of you.
Now if only DS would actually sleep through the night and makes us all seem like pros!
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Just keep going honey, you're doing really great! Think of what you've accomplished in such short time. I'm sure with consistency he'll soon be ready to settle himself at NW too. You're definitely going in the right direction with it all, and if taking things one step at a time suits you best, that IS what's best for you and your LO. I'm so glad I've been able to help even if just by encouragement. I know how hard it can be and how lonely it can be to deal with these things without someone to discuss it with. This place is so great for that!
Keep us upadated... :-*
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Mukta I think you are doing a great job!! You have had such a challenge to deal with and you have come so far, i'm proud of you! ;) Big hugs honey, you guys will get there. And then you will really remember what sleep is like :-*
W2S sounds like a good plan. I had success with it a while back when Luke used a paci. A friend from my b/c (Lenasmom on these boards) has a lo the same age as ours and she did W2S about a month ago to solve very early wakings and had great success, I think they used a paci to do it as well. If you want I can ask her to peek in here.
Good luck and keep us posted xxxxx
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Hi Jess, thanks for your encouragement, must admit when I read you ladies praising my efforts it feels good. DH thinks I am converting DS into a guinea pig!
But I am happy, no milk in the middle of the night is great and it gives me hope that everything will work out sooner or later. Would greatly appreciate if Lenasmom could also please take a look and guide. I tried W2S last night, but didn't go too well and we had too many NW. But also need to start controlling DS's daytime sleep now, he has been doing 3hr and that might be a factor for messing up his night sleep as well, 2 or 2.5 hrs is the norm I believe.
Now the twister in the whole thing is a long weekend starting Thursday, our first break since DS came along..so lets hope it all goes ok and will be back to sleep training with a vengeance!
Thanks xxx
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Guineapig!?! He doesn't understand the value of it as he's not been the one to deal with it. Keep confident babe!
I haven't got much experience of W2S so can't really offer much help on that one. Hope you get some good advice somewhere else! Hugs!
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exactly. Althugh he wakes up in the night almost as much as I do, so can't complain... he thinks a bit too short term and not long term, can't afford a 25yr old son who need me to pat him back to bed..can I?
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You kow Mutka, 3-5 times of WIWO at bedtime is really not that bad, you are nearly there.
As for the nightwaking at 11pm, Keep doing the WIWO, you are now at the stage of you've done the work, now come the real tests, do't give up, it's almost over!
The only thing that I can say is, be careful with the 6am feed and letting him go back to sleep, it might get earlier rather than later. I know how difficult it is and how luxurious that extra 1 and a half hour is but I really think it might confuse him in the long run, it's best to start your day if he is going to have milk.
Well doe on a great job so far.
:-*
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Thanks Mari..must admit I feel much better and positive...
if I understood you right, you are suggesting WIWO for the 11 and the 4am wake up rather than W2S...is that right?
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Now then, just noticed that my post has only just been posted, but I posted that this morning at around 10am :-\ I don't think it actually got sent until I switched on this afternoon?????
So, how consistent is he with timings? Can you set your watch by the 11pm and 4am wakeups? If so then you could do W2S, I personally haven't had any experience of it.
This is the part that I was concerned about:
Anyways the good news first - DS doe snot want milk in the night along,r he gets up at about 6 and I know he desperately wants milk, so that when he gets a whole bottle :d and back to sleep till 7:30. This suits me fine with getting ready for work etc and is working well for us. When the time changes I will just Wake him up right after the milk so slowly the association between milk and sleep will go away and hopefully it will all work out. Now thats my plan, not necessarily his
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Well you can pretty much set the clock give or take 15-20 minutes for his NW.
I appreciate your concern and in all honestly its mine as well, but man does he bring the housedown at 6am...its like crying blue murder...:( and since his lats feed is at 7pm it makes it almost 11 hrs to his next feed. I am probably being a wuss and should just wake him up at 6, but when I have the day has been a disaster as then he sleeps for 3.5-4 hrs during the day to make up, won't sleep before 7:30pm and slowly it rolls into the OT situation...
well I am going to try and give this another few days and try W2S for the next day or so, then we are off for a short holiday and when I come back, will try and see if I Can coax him into bed till 7:oo or so. Fingers crossed
And thank you so much for your concern. Its very sweet.
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Good luck with the W2S. I was always too scared to do it, so you are less of a wuss than I was!!
You are doing great, and sorry it sounds like I'm criticising, you are further ahead than I was after the same length of time (if that makes sense), just want this to be over for you and your little man. :-*
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ohh no Mari, never thought you were criticizing me. I knwo you are only looking out for my best interest. Acvtually I am feeling a bit doubtful about the W2S..as last night was a disaster, but dont know what else, will he soonee or later stop wkaing up if I continue with WIWO?
I am getting cold feet now especiually with the short break planned for this week...lets see how the evenining goes...
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Well, I did it with WIWO only, that way I had consistency with every wakeup. Although I didn't have any pattern with the wakeups, I couldn't say that she would definitely wakeup at a certain time, it was anytime between 7pm and 7am! lol
Also, if she woke after 6am then I would get up for the day, it didn't seem worth doing WIWO for an hour's sleep. Luckily for me it didn't cause any habitual early wakeups, she eventually slept 7pm - 7am.
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aaaghhhh decisions decisions..Well its habit for sure for my DS because of how consistent he is timewise.
Will try W2S tonight and see if it works at all, and if not WIWO it will be. DH is dead against W2S, can't see the sens in waking up the sleeping monster ;) so who knows might just fall back to WIWO....aggghh decisions decisions...
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When Colin dropped his night feed he still woke at the same time even though he wasn't hungry, so we did W2S for that and it worked GREAT :)
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Good luck with W2S if you decide to give it a go. Said I haven't tried it, but come to think of it we sort of did it the other day, unintentionally, as my DH woke up at 5 with a really bad shoulder ( has some injury... ). Lois had been waking for the day at 5/5:30 for ages and it was impossible for her to get back to sleep, so when I heard her wimper a little as DH was moaning about his shoulder I thought 'oh no!' but she settled back to sleep, and then slept til 6:50. Since then she's slept longer in the mornings, so I wondered if it could have been like W2S? Just thought I'd share that... :P
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Good luck Mukta. I used W2S with Zander for short naps but have never had any consistent success with it for night wakings. The couple of times it has worked I've realised I had to wake/stir him far more than I would during a nap time. It's probably easier if you have a dummy as you can use that as Tracy describes in the book.
Kelly x
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I have everything crossed for you. Good luck and a very good night. :-*
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Hi Mukta,
How did it go last night?
I've had no experience with W2S, so can't give you much advice there.
But I did want to say, to forget about sleep training over the weekend and have a really lovely holiday - goodness knows you deserve it :D And you can start with a new found strength when you come back :-*
When are you off?
Lis
x
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Oh yes, enjoy your holiday :D
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Hi there Vicku, Mari, Kelly, Lis, Jessica
Last night was a bit of a disaster, before I could start with W2S, Ds stirred himself and went back to sleep, so I thought job was done, but nope not stubborn lil monkey! He was up at 12 instead of 11:30 and then 3:30 on the dot and then 5:30 for the day! eeekkssss
I have a feeling W2S will not work as he is way to sensitive a sleeper, so probably need to gently get him out of the habit with PD WIWO. Jessica, sadly DS is not as sensible as Colin! btw everytime I see your Avatar, I get really hungry for a slice of big juicy Pizza!
Anyways as per you perfect advise, I am going to try and forget all abt sleep training and try and enjoy, we are off to Istanbul, we head off Thursday morning and back Monday night. Will try and hold him to UK time, so we can start the day later and end it later as well..but lets see what DS has in mind :D
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Hi Mukta,
Jess asked me to have a look at your thread and I just made a post to Bethanys mummy here on this board about the same topic, so if you don´t mind, I am going to copy and paste my post to her.
I hope it helps a little xx
Emma, no nappy-change here either, but with our own W2S-version, we did do a quick PU/PD because Lena would be SO deep asleep that I´d have to be rattling her cot to get her to stirr around a little and I was afraid to scare the poor thing. A stroke on the cheek is definately not enough for her to wake up.
So, with her habitual EW of 5am (this was about 2 months ago, as you know), we went in around 3am, pick her up, sit in a chair with her and rock for about 3-4 minutes, give her the paci when she stirred and then put her back down gently, tuck her in, place her doll next to her and then leave the room.
This worked from the first try and we did it for 3 or 4 days (can´t remember, fried brain) and then we stopped.
She had wake-ups ranging between 6.30 and 7.30am from then on, but 7-ish being the most common.
She goes to bed between 6.30 and 6.45pm so that is a 12H night.
I have to say, this all coincided with our switch to 1 nap so quite possibly, she had better nights because she was on 1 good nap a day, whereas right before the switch, her 2 naps were bad as she only did a 30min in the AM and then completely refuse the PM-nap
Let me know what you decide to do,
Sophie
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Hi Sophie,
thanks for your post, unfortunately my DS is a light sleeper, so PUPD would be an absolute disaster...but the whole 2-1nap is an interesting issue, because I think we are heading towrads that right in the middle of sleep training. I have tried W2S for 2 nights with disastrous results - increased NW and EW as well.... :(
But thanks for your post, its given me a whole new idea to work with.
Mukta
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Mukta, I notice Sophie did W2S a whole 2 hours before her LO's habitual waking. That might work with your LO as he's likely to be in a deeper sleep then. Anyway, I bet the holiday has the effect of W2S, sometimes a break in routine gets rid of these little habits!
Kelly x
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fingers crossed for what you said kelly.
BTW the day has been a disaster so far after a 5:30am wake up, he slept at 9:00am for 35/40mins and has been up since then..so who knows maybe its the wretched 2-1 transtition as well.
Tempted to do it cold turkey once we are back, but everyone warns against it.
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Mukta, the reason why we did W2S at 3am was exactly for that same reason you mention : at 4am it would be too risky to do it, since Lena would be too rested to get back to sleep if the W2S would fail and she´d wake up completely. At 3am, she was still in her deep deep sleep.
Re. the 2-1 switch : I know advice is to keep 2 naps going as long as possible and I was so scared to make the switch too but in the end, we had to and I had to listen to what Lena was trying to tell me by having 2 crappy naps (or rather, 1 crappy nap and a refused nap) and since making the switch, she has never napped better and her nights have been consistently good. (untill 2 days ago, when she woke early but that´s because she has a nasty cold/cough but that´s another story)
We did an early bedtime during the first 2 weeks of our switch to avoid OT.
I was adament on keeping her on 2 naps untill she hit 14 months at least but she decided against that ;D
I´m sorry to hear you had a bad night again :-*
Good luck xx
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the 3am makes sense, will probably try that out tonight and see if it makes a difference...as for the transition I think its upon us, the lats 2 days naps the pm naps have been bad and today the am nap was bad, lets see how the day goes.
But you give me hope..or rather a dream that post transition DS might sleep well :D
thanks!
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mukta i'm so glad you're going away on a weekend break, you soooo deserve it. good luck trying the w2s if you do, and please keep posting about how it's going.
sophie thx again for checking in ;)
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Hi Mukta!
Just wanted to wish you a really good time away! They are right that you should take a break from sleep training, both for your own and DS's sake. Everything's different anyway while you're away so just go with the flow!
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am halfway through packing :D
talk to you ladies when I am back
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Hello ladies.
We are back, and an honest truth really missed BW and was so desperate to log on while on vacation but had to hold myself back :
So vacation went great and DS was an absolute star, happily trooped along, has completely given up NW till date so hopefully that change is to stay.
But his daytime sleep while on vacation was a bit shorter than normal, so it normally was 2 naps of abt 45 min each, the max he would ever sleep in a pushchair! But he used to sleep in a bit late in the morning to make up. BUT he has started a new thing...
he wakes up at a random time in the night, is asleep, eyes shut and all, but tosses and turns and needs me to pat him or comfort him...any thoughts on why? I am thinking being overtired, but would love your guidance.
All through the tossing and turning he is asleep, eyes shut! and then after abt an hr or so he does go back to deep sleep. These wakings have been random.
AM going to let him sleep as much as he likes of the next couple of day to help him come back on track and make up for lost sleep on vacation and will then slowly try and get him back to his usual routine and control his daytime sleep.
As always all guidance is much appreciated and I missed you all :D
Mukta
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Welcome back, glad you had a good time.
For the nightwakings I would try to do as little as possible to allow him to resettle himself. If he isn't crying and just tossing then I would leave him. only go to him if it is a real cry, then try shshsh, if that doesn't work then a couple of taps and then stop when he calms.
Well done, looks like you are at the beginning of the end!
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Thanks Mari, I'll try that tonight....he starts crying at time,s but looks like the PD pat shh, WIWO concoction will need to be put into action again!
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Glad he was so good while you were away! Maybe he's having dreams about all the new stuff he's taken in on vacation?
Hope settles into a good routine again now, an even better one with a bit of luck! ;)
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Hi Mukta!
Welcome home! Glad to hear you had a nice break and that DS behaved himself! Hope he settles back into home life quickly and easily for you ;)
What was the place, weather like? Do YOU feel refreshed?
Lis
x
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Hi Lis,
Thanks for asking, I feel refreshed for sure but work is quite quickly making me forget how good it was to be away.
Istanbul is absolutely lovely and people are very friendly and love children. Random people would stop us and chat with the LO, absolutely fantatsic and LO loved the attention. The weather was warmer than London and sunny most of the time.
Infact I'd reccomend Istanbul to absolutely anyone who wants to travel for a nice weekend trip with babies. The only caveat, they don;t really do highchairs and changing tables, but we had bought a small booster chair which can be strapped on to restaurant chairs and zips up to the size of a small pillow and that worked great :D
all in all good trip but its great to be back and to be BW again!
Mukta xxxx
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Glad you had a good time Mukta ;D
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Thanks Kelly.
btw ladies DS fell asleep on his own tonight :D he was quite sleepy when i left the room but not asleep and it worked :D
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;D ;D
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Mukta, you've come SO FAR!! 8)
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Thanks Jessica ;D am so excited.
But honestly ladies, could have never done a thing without you lot, you are my angels :D Each one of you has been an absolute star!
once I have had a good week of decent nights, I am going to get rid of the pacifier...
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I'm a big fan of paci ditching, having finally done it myself!
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aha, so I will be hounding you some more for guidance :) Looks like I'll be following you around for a bit :D
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Fab news that DS went to sleep by himself! How was the rest of the night?
We did cold turkey with the dummy at 13 mo - so I can help you there too! ::) :P
We've done everything! ::)
Lis :-*
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wow lis, you know the best part about all of this is the fact that i have realized I am not in this alone and so many moms and dad have been through this and survived!
The night was pretty ok, he had 1 NW for which he settled himself :D but the other one at 5:15 was a bit impossible and nothing could settle him, I think teething has a part to play, so comforted him till I could and then milk (at 6am) and unfortuantely he went back to sleep (past few days milk was like his wake-up time) but I think the resteless night due to teething etc warranted the extra sleep.
So all in all, its getting better. :) DH is still an issue but thats a nother post!;)
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mukta nice to hear from you, i was wondering how you were doing. it sounds like things are getting so much better! wow! you should be so proud of yourself.
good luck if you are weaning the paci...but i would advise you taking one step at a time. trying it all at once is so stressful! you will get there sweetie...sounds like you are almost there already.
big hugs xxx
ps. thanks for tips about istanbul. we've been throwing out the idea of going there for the past 10 years (!) since it's relatively close and cheap and warm(-er than here), great to know it is so kid friendly.
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Hi jess,
thanks for the tip, you are probably right, I shouldn't get too ahead of myself, but the planner that I am I nee to know what I will be doing next ;)
Whenever you plan a trip to Istanbul, just let me know I can give you all the information you need. We actually rented an apartment right in the centre and it was extremely reasonable and although you are smack in the middle of touristy area, the benefit is that you can walk back home within 15minutes in case you nee to with LO, so we could get back home for nappy changes, feeds, nap etc when required.
Anyways , just let me know whenever you are ready, I have hoards of information to share :D
take care
Mukta
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Good to hear he settled himself last night! And that you had such a nice time away!
We still have the dummy/paci here too as you know, so if you decide to get rid of that I'll also be reading all the advice you get :) Don't think we'll get rid of it yet though as it's working so well with her. Uses it totally independent, so guess it's more of a comfort item than a prop and hoping it shouldn't be a problem to let her have it for a while longer. Only has it in bed.
I agree you've come really far! Congratulate yourself! :-*
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Wow Mutka, I am so proud of you! :-*
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Wow, Mukta one NW ;D - that's great news! It will just get better and better from now - you'll see!
If I remember rightly, N did about 2 weeks of the 1 NW and then it completely vanished!
Just keep being consistent - this is the most important thing!
Keep us posted!
Lis
x :-*
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Oops, I forgot to say - you need to change the title of this thread now Mukta!! How about -
'IT JUST GOT BETTER!!!'
;) :-*
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Here you go Lis! topic changed.
last night was a bit mixed, DS slept fine till 4ish and then was groaning and moaning till 5:30, no amount of patting, WIWO worked, for more than 5/10 min max. And then at about 5:30 he started chewing his pacifier and sucking it like crazy, so relented and gave him his bottle and then he slept pretty ok with occasional groans till 7:45. I think his 4th molar is about to cut skin.
Also he had his night bottle 45 min before normal time as yesterday was a 1 nap day!
So maybe its all related, but it certainly is getting better :D
Mukta
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Those teeth can be a bit troublesome :-\ All in all things seem to be improving lots though :) Definitely sound like teething signs! Did you try painkiller meds? That might have helped him resettle sooner without the need for an earlier bottle. I usually give Lois meds when she's teething and has NW and if I give it as soon as she wakes up, she resettles LOADS quicker than if I don't. Figure it can't hurt to give some meds when they need it, eh? Hope it cuts through quickly!
Big hug honey!
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Hi Vicku,
In general loads of improvement and I am a happy mum, but between theething and what i think is a 2-1 transition we are having a few NW, at times 2 hrs..but I know thats pain and OT related since DS takes 1 long nap in the morning on some days and totally skips the PM nap. So need to slowly shift the am nap to a bit later....mor e on the 2-1 thread
but man I am happy with no nightfeeds...fingers crossed to avoid the jinx :)
DS btw now has 12 teeth that have cut skin, 4 of which in the same week..and molars too!
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I'll check out your 2-1 post too...
Lots of hugs!
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Morning All!
How's it going Mukta? How was last night?
I hear from my mum that you have snow :o Snow at Easter??!!
Wow - a bit of a change of climate than where you were last weekend!!
Lis
:-*
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Hi! How you going M? We have snow too!!! Can't believe it, all my flowers are covered!
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yup lovely snow, its actually quite nice DS's first snow :d but it comes and goes :( so no snowmen for sure!
Lis, I am sure you miss the white stuff, I am guessing you don't get any..or do you?....I hear Athens does....
Things are not to bad in some ways, only 1 NW around 4/4:30, not for feed, but I think it has to do with a full nappy and start of hunger pangs, but PD WI/WO is working or so I think.
But loads of inconsistent EW anything from 6am to 7:45am...so the rest of the day is getting a bit wonky, but hey at least the NW are getting fixed :D
Thanks for asking.
btw Vicku, how on earth did you get time to plant? My garden looks like a desert since DS came along!
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It wasn't me who planted ;) they were all in when we moved in 1st December... I wouldn't have had time either ;D
Glad NWs have been ok. EW could be due to transition to 1 nap.x
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Yes ,we did have snow in February here actually - for 2 days :o It is unusual tho.
At least your garden looks like a desert Mukta - mine is a jungle of weeds :( Thinking of paying a gardener to come and clear it and then I will really try to keep on top of it. That was the plan last year too......... sigh!
And at least if your gardens are covered in snow they look tidy ;D
1 NW is still really good going Mukta ;) The EWs will probably sort themselves out once DS has transitioned once and for all. We are having EWs too ::)
Lis
x
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snow again here....last day of a long weekend and homebound LO :(
Actually need some advise as well, DS promptly wakes up at 4:15/4:30 with a cry, his nappy is pretty full then so I change nappy plug back pacifier and then within minute of moaning groaning he is back to sleep. Not sure if this is a NW because of habit or nappy change. But this routine has been on a for some time now.
So was wondering if anyone had thoughts on how to deal with this, should I just wake up at 3:30 and change his nappy in anticipation so break the 4:15/30 habit? or just let it be ? I don't mind it but just wary of AP and habits..now that I am a tad bit smarter :D
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When you say a full Nappy, is it just wet? When Alex's nappy is really wet I realise that it;s time to change to a larger size, also have a look around to ensure that you are using the best possible type for night time wakings. If that doesn;t work then you could try W2S at 3ish :-\
Awaiting further advice though. :-\
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Hi mari,
Thanks for these thoughts. His nappy is just very very wet. We are using the extended wear, so extra dry ones and he is already in the larger size, 4+ and is just over 22 pounds so not sure a still bigger size will work....awaiting more advise.
Thanks,
Mukta
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When Alex was in a 4+ size I put her in a 5 for the nights and they did keep her dryer. It's worth a try and even if you do get a small pack, they won't eat or drink as it won't be long before she will be in that size anyway. :-\
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Good point Mari, I will try out a 5 and see if it works better.
Thanks!
Mukta
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Hi Mukta
Look back at your first posts, you've both come so far :D I was going to suggest a bigger nappy too - Nate is also 22lb and has been in a size 5 for a while. Can you believe my just 9 month old is the same weight as your LO?! Before Zander was potty trained you could smell the wee soaked nappy the instant you walked in in the morning but we never changed it during the night.
Kelly x
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i know its amazing how far we have come. Will nee to try the 5 nappy, couldn't get out tonight to get some so will have to be tomorrow. DS had his MMR and the Prevnar shot today, so lets see how that affects NW's or not :D
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Morning Mukta!
How's things? How did last night go?
Good luck with the jabs today!
Lis :-* :-*
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Hi Lis,
A very good morning to you as well. The shots were last night and DS probably scared the life out of the HV he has a tendency to hold his breath when he cries due to the shots! but toys are wonderful things :D, distraction is easy :D
But lats night was horrible, loads of NW with crying poor kid was crying in his sleep and needed a bit of comfort and then the lovely 3-5 wake up but sleep dance was miserable. I'll blame it all on the shot and not enough daytime sleep. lets hope he will be back on track tomorrow.
How are things at your end? Counting weeks to you holiday back home? I do hope I will still be here in London whenyou visit but chances look slim, we might have to move in June :( will keep you updated. I am not looking forward to the move.
Anyways have a great day all.
Mukta
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Hi Mukta,
Just checking in on you two. Hope the bigger nappy will help you.
We have LOADS of snow here now. Strange for this time of year...
Hugs!
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Oh, sorry to hear about last night - you must be knackered :( But as you say, it was probably due to jabs - they can be unsettling :(
Yes, we're really looking forward to our summer hols :) but just to keep us going until then, Mum will be over at the end of April for 2 weeks for Greek Easter ;D
Can't wait, I'm in need of some Englishtivity and of course, it goes without saying that I want MY MUMMY too!! :D
Hope you will still be in London in the summer tho :(
Lis :-*
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Hey Lis,
Do let me know if you need anything form London, can send it through your mum!! I am so envious that your mom will be visiting you ..what fun! i want my mommy too.
Hope tonight is not as bad as last!
goodnight
Mukta
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Hi ladies,
Desperate, yet again..bet you thought you'd never see me here again.
DS was ill for about a week almost 10 days ago (is returning to normal now) and completly lost his appetite. It has started coming back since the last 3/4 days, but then so is his need for a midnight bottle. For the past 3-4 days he has been waking up with a full blown tantrum wont let us touch him, hug him, give him pacifier nothing, is screaming out of his mind, his throat gets hoarse etc etc till he gets milk. It is way worse than it used to be.
So I gave for 2 days while he was ill thinking once his appetite is back and he is back to full melas he won't need it, but I was wrong. He still wants it.
He wont take just 2-3oz he keeps crying till he has had about 5-6 and worse won't fall back to sleep immediately like he initally did, stays up for nearly an hr.
Any thoughts on whats happennhning. I am so broken right now at the thought of going through all this again. Is he on a growth spurt at 14.5months? is he making up for lost calories? No 2 days has the NW been at the same time....
Thanks for your help ladies....
Mukta
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Hi Mukta!
Sorry to hear things aren't good! Illness can really mess things up!
I don't know if I have tha much advice on what to do really. My DD hasn't had a night feed since we gave up DF at 10.5 months, and that's not really a night feed anyway... so even though she can wake in the middle of the night, she's never expecting a feed. If DS is genuinely hungry after not having an appetite he'll obviously need the extra calories, so problem is how to get him to have them during the day instead of waking at night for them. I'm sure you're already trying your best to get more into him in the day, so hard to advise really. Maybe letting him have more of his favourite foods? Adding extra fat e.g. butter or oil to his food? I was told you can add it in almost anything, porridge, fruit puree or yoghurt, or in his dinner foods. Where is he at weight wise for his age/height?
Otherwise maybe it's a matter of giving in to the night feed for a short while and trying to up calories in the day, and then if he doesn't stop waking for the milk in the night you might have to go back to sleep training again, WI/WO or PU/PD... unfortunately...I know that's hard work but it will probably be necesary if he doesn't all of a sudden go back to sleeping through on his own.
I'm only thinking what I would do if I was in your situation...
Also, if he's been unwell some of it might be that he's OT too, and less able to settle himself when he wakes cos of that.
I'm happy to share my thoughts and bounce ideas, but I'm no expert on the subject hun. Hope things settle down quickly!
Lots of hugs to you!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Mukta,
I was hoping you had solved the puzzle.
My LO is 14 months today and is currently waking up at around 4am for a bottle (much like your LO). She goes right back to sleep and wakes up around 7 - 8am. I'm not sure what to do. I started reducing the amount of milk by 10ml every day. Maybe that helps (but I think you tried this too). Let me/us know if you find a better solution.
Lots of hugs as well
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Hi there,
4am must be a magic time! DS also goes back to sleep more often than not and then wakes between7 and 8. On days that he does not have the midnight milk, he wakes up between 6-7.
I think I am going to give him the milk as he wants for a couple of days and see how it goes, maybe he is just trying to make up for the lost days.
Thanks for your advise Vicku, I am trying to up his daytime intake but with no luck. I do add butter to almost all his meals. He is in the 25th percentile ht and wt wise, but then neither DH nor I are very big built.
I just hope he would sleep through the night...
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Hope last night was better hun! Doesn't sound like he's underweight or anything, maybe he'll be ok in a few days... hope so! There is always the possibility that he's waking from something else, like more teething, and then has his miond set on milk as it was his previous habit for a long time to have milk, *then* settle to sleep. Just another thought...
I'm hoping you'll get it sorted so you can have some good sleep again :-*
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Thanks Vicku, we started diluting the feed again, lets see how it goes, maybe i just need to accept that thats the way he is!
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Well, setbacks seem inevitable unfortunately... especially after illness. Hope diluting it works! Let us know how it goes!
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Hi there,
I think I am going to give him the milk as he wants for a couple of days and see how it goes, maybe he is just trying to make up for the lost days.
Just be careful not to get into the habit again. My guess is that is he's not taking it during the day then he hasn't fully recovered yet. TBH, although milk will help to fill them up, do you really think it's sufficient enough to help him get a good night's sleep at this age? I wondered that when I was giving it to Alex and I really think that it was more of a case that I was depending on it to help her get to sleep and soothe her rather than fill her tummy.
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Hi Mari,
I think you are spot on he is still not back to a 100% and looks like the second molars are striking now...so bad timing yet again.
But something is strange for sure. He had become pretty good at falling asleep for the night and today was crazy, the guy who normally barely has 5oz before falling asleep today had 8!
Lets see how tonight goes, but although he is over the sickness I think some hangover is still there, and I have a sneaky feeling it has something to do with digestion and heartburn as the poor guy has been burping a lot...
Am I right to assume that if he wakes at different times everynight its not a habit?
The bright spot is that at least this time I know how to hopefully get him back on track as I have done it successfully before :D
Mukta
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Hi Mukta,
How were things last night? How is Uday feeling now?
I think you're right to wait until he's 100% before starting to sleep train again.
I'm sending lots of strength and patience!
Lis
xx
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Hi Lis,
Man do I need that strength and patience.
he was up last night form 2-4, howling! Not sure what it is, indigestion or what....gave him milk and he still kept crying :(
It all seems to have become worse since the 2-1 switch will probably post his routine there and see if anyone has any guidance.
But this is killing me.
Mukta
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As you might remember our routine and everything that comes with it was a total mess with EW, NW and OT for quite some time... :-[ That switch can be a bitch to crack, but you'll get there hun. I know how hard it is though!
If he still kept crying even though you gave him milk it sounds like it's something else than hunger, so you could probably conclude it's not that. Maybe you should stop giving/trying to give milk so you're not getting him used to that again. Have you tried giving Ibuprofen? In case it's teeth...
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Hi Vicku,
Good idea, will try medi tonight and see...
the thing is I don't offer milk at first go, i try pacifier, comforting him patting him PD etc. and then when he is absolutely inconsolable and starts pointing towards kitchen or trying to say milk that's when i break down. I know its probably giving the wrong message but i am so confused.
if I give him milk straight away i am putting him in a habit and if I don't but Wait till he cries then the message I give is that crying gets you what you want...confused.....cant let him cry more than 5-10minutes?
Mukta
ps: love that new pic!
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the thing is I don't offer milk at first go, i try pacifier, comforting him patting him PD etc. and then when he is absolutely inconsolable and starts pointing towards kitchen or trying to say milk that's when i break down. I know its probably giving the wrong message but i am so confused.
I can see how it's hard to refuse in that situation...
Why don't you try giving meds tonight and see if it stops him waking, and if still waking if he's less upset. I know with Lois it always works best to give the meds as soon as she wakes in the night. If I wait then she usually works herself up too much to settle. Have heard others say this too. The other thing I sometimes do if I'm sure she's teething and in discomfort, is I give Paracetamol for her bedtime (which lasts about 4 hrs) then sneak in and give her Ibuprofen (which lasts 8 hrs) just before we go to sleep, so lasts her til the morning. Just give it in a syringe in her sleep and she just sucks it and swallows it and continues sleeping. Might be worth a try. I know it's not nice to think you're giving them meds all the time, but it's safe and ok when they need it I think. Helps them and you!
ps: love that new pic!
Thanks!!! Yours is lovely too! :)
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you are right Vicku, I just got to keep the faith! I will try meds and see tonight. and thanks for the tip about using the syringe to give medi to sleeping LO. fingers crossed he won't wake up.
Its that fear of letting him work him self up that I end up giving milk asap when he wakes and does not settle for more than 5/7 minutes.
At this rate DS will never ever have a sibling!
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I know how you feel! Things will get better again. We were there and now things are pretty good here for now. Don't be too afraid to let him cry for longer than that. That's really not very long. As long as you don't just leave him and keep doing WI/WO. Well, try meds tonight and see if that makes a difference. Hope it works and he doesn't wake up. Try to do it when he's in a deep sleep and not when he's tossing and turning.
Also, remember you've done it before if you end up needing to sleep train. It worked then and if you stick with the same approach as you did then it should hopefully work quickly (not quick enough for a sleep deprived mum I know, but...) I really hope it's just teething and it will be over soon though. Lois always tend to get bad teething pain in relation to a cold. No idea why, it just seems to be that way.
Fingers and everything crossed for you for tonight! :-*
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Thanks Vicku. Tonight was awful, he did not go down till 8:15...lets see how the night goes>
Thanks for your support.
Mukta
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Let me know how it works out! Good luck and good sleep vibes for DS!
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Hi Mukta,
Sigh, sorry to hear you are having an awful time of it. Is DS completely recovered yet?
How did last night go?
Sending kilos more of patience ang hugs!
P.S Patience is on special offer - 3 for 1 at Sainsbury's this week. So go stock up if you're running low!
I have - I seem to go through it SOO quickly these days!!
Lis and Forrest - Tigger - Nicholas!!
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LOL Liz, that did cheer me up.
I think I need to stock up patience for myself to deal with Ds and Dh who gets as frustrated as DS! good life!
Do you think the Sainsbury's patience is as good as the Waitrose one?
btw I am lowering the bar for myself I hope to have DS sleep trained before he goes to college...and no sibling for DS, no chance at all..with sleep deprived and irritable parents no chances of that happenning!
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btw I am lowering the bar for myself I hope to have DS sleep trained before he goes to college...and no sibling for DS, no chance at all..with sleep deprived and irritable parents no chances of that happenning!
He seems quite happy with the teddy bear, never mind about a sibling ;D
Liz, you made me laugh too! I better stock up on that while in UK next week, as well as those DVDs and books!
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btw I am lowering the bar for myself I hope to have DS sleep trained before he goes to college...and no sibling for DS, no chance at all..with sleep deprived and irritable parents no chances of that happenning!
Go on, you'll be a dab hand by the time baby number 2 comes along, you'll have all the tricks up your sleeve by then!
How did last night go?
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Hey Mukta,
I have read through this thread of yours, no other, and I could have written this story almost to a T. OK, I actually did ;) on another thread with Sarah Squared, Alison_3 and Lilah's mommy, Sabrina. We sleep trained together. Henry did very much the same thing at about the same age. Until 1 year of age he would wake occasionally and I would give him a watered down bottle of formula and he would go to sleep in a flash. Then he started waking, crying, we would give him the milk and he would keep screaming and crying for 1, someitmes two hours on and off until we offered another bottle and then only would he collapse in exhaustion. Really, that 'occasional' bottle crept up on us liek a thief in the night. He started waking every night for it, instead of once every week or two, and then it escalated. I knew he did not need the calories, with him STTN from 4 months, I just became a habit, a prop really.
PUPD modified with Shh/pat used to work like a charm as well, until this whole episode. He would just not settle, and our shh/pat and PUPD was more stimulating. I read that the other girls were going to do WIWO and I popped onto the bandwagon. I am SO glad I did. Yes, for two nights he cried ALOT. As he was crying in any case for upto 2 hours even after the milk, I figured he was going to cry regardless and rather than him crying for no 'reason' or benefit, we can rather turn it into a positive thing. So we started.
The first night he cried long and hard, as he did even with the PUPD. He was so mad at us. I would go in, reassure him, rub his bum or tummy or back, depending on what I could reach. I would go out and count to 10, go back in and reassure, telling him I love him, I am here, but that he needs to go back to bed to grow big and strong and be rested so we could play the next day. almost 2 hours of this. Next night, same thing, just a little shorter. By the third night he knew he was not getting any milk - he spat the clear water out previously BTW but would drain sometimes with the two bottles combined about 14 oz of diluted milk in 2 hours :o :o :o :o :o . He did not need it, I think after the crying, he was just soothing, IYKWIM.
The following nights he would occasionally wake once or twice, but most times I just needed to go in once (sometiems a more, but mostly once only), rub his back tell him it is OK, go back to bed and he would settle immediately. Sometimes I just needed to lay him down again. It was as if in his sleepy state he would stand up and not know how to go down again, although he was walking and cruising well by now, sitting and standing as he pleased.
I just want to encourage you. It is tough. But being consistent is much better for them. As Jess also said, esp so for Touchy spirited kiddos. You might have a few EW, but by having an earlier bedtime really helps. And if he is tired early in the am, 15-30 minute naps really helped us the one or two times we needed it.
HUGS and remember this too shall pass. You and DH will find the time and energy to go through this all again ;)
xx
DI
I will go and find the link of our WIWO sleep training episode. If you have time and are interested, you might find some reassurance there.
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Hi Mari and DI,
last night was just about the same..poor :( he was up at about 2 moaning and back to slepe without me and only woke up at about 4 for his feed. and thenup for the day at 6:30.
he has gone donw ok todya at 7:45 so lets see how tonight goes.
DI: SO if I understand this correctly, you baiscally wnet cold turkey with regards to the milk and did Wi/WO to calm him down, is that right? and it took say 3 days to bring to a mangable no-cry situation?
Well if thats the case i might just have to bite the bullet and get it going. I am pretty sure he is teething as well, so feel a bit bad about starting the harsh route, but hey what choice do I have, he has been teething since he was 3 months old! Thank you so much for you message and enouragement. With your guidance and inspiration I might just get thorugh this again. Its a bit worse than last time, and we did take the diluted milk slow and staedy route last time and it worked, but not sure it will this time.
Please do send me the link, i'd be mor ethan happy to read and learn.
Thanks all, I can't begin to even express how grateful I am to all of you who have been helping me through this.
Mukta
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Yep we went cold turkey as well. As long as he is topped up with pain meds for the teething, I would sleep train. He will be teething for the next 12 months still... ;)
I would say a managable some cry but settles quickly situation :)
Here is the link: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=113134.0
Good luck and when you are ready to bite the bullet, let us know. It is tough whilst you are in the situation, but boy, it DOES get better. Really, it does!
xx
DI
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=113134.0
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Just reading through the thread..but one quick question.
Whenm your LO cried, what did you do, pick up to comfort or try PD or what,. DS gets so angry he pushes me away, will stand by the bed nd just push me away..breaks my heart :(
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Initially we picked him up, but he did the same and I felt it was stimulating him more. If he was standing up, I would lay him down, rub his back/chest/bum/tummy and reassure him and walk out. After 10 seconds I would go back in and if he was standing, repeat above. If he was lying down, I would just rub back/chest/bum/tummy (whatever was accessable really ;) ), reassure and walk out again. repeat, repeat, repeat. I would also listen to his crying, because sometimes he would escalate and then I would go in a little sooner, if it sounded like his mantra, I would hang back a little. He sleeps with a lovey and I would always after lying him down, put the lovey near his chest/face or into his hands. That helped a great deal too, I think.
HTH :)
DI
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very helpful. Now all I need to do is convince DH and get going tonight. No postponing..will let you know if I chicken out or not!
btw he also uses the pacifier, do you think I should try and get rid of that as well? I am thinking not....since that would be just an overkill, and he tends to find it more often than not...so I am ok with it in some ways...
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Mutka, I went cold turkey on the milk too. In my opinion, if you give milk for wakeups they just start to escalate and you could end up giving 3 bottles a night(I did)
Ensure that there are no illnesses, including teething.
Try to have as little as possible contact with him, but always reassure him that you are there. He will cry, as long as you are there and reassuring him then he isn;t crying alone and he will learn to realise that you will come if he needs you but now is time to sleep.
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oh Mari, i am so ready for it (except for the teething possibility) but Dh is completly non-supportive he thinks DS needs the milk!
how do I sort him out?
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which one? DH or DS? ;)
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Morning Mukta,
How was last night? Did you cold turkey the milk?
I totally understand about DH being unsupportive. I think I've told you before that my DH was the same. He refused to do PU/PD.
And even now he still doesn't get the early wakings need an early BT - AARRHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
I just resigned myself to doing the sleep training alone as ultimately, I was always the one to get up in the night anyway!
But it's hard when you are alone and DH is unsupportive or simply doesn't get what you're trying to do. But hey, we all know that women are more intelligent than men!
And now that I have sleep trained DS, successfully, all on my own, DH says that he probably would have started sleeping through anyway as he's growing up!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
You can't win sometimes! But I know that I am ALWAYS right and I just keep it to myself most of the time!!
Lots of hugs and kisses to you and Uday,
Lis and Nicholas
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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DH Jessica,
sorting DS is way easier, I am his mum and I knwo whats bets for him ;)
Thanks Lis, hugs right back at you both, how is Nicholas' finger?
I know I am right as well especialy as you lot is behind me, but Its so bloody irritating when DH makes me feel like I am straving the poor kid and he is so desperate for milk. then he will say - I just can't see him cry...as if I can!
Anyways, here is what happened last night, let me knwo how good or bad it went.
DS slept off at 7:30/7:40 after milk and cheerios (cheerios being a new addition) and had a couple of paci related NW before 11 but nothing major. And then he woke up only at 4:45am and was absoluteley hysterical, I mean hysterical! So I picked him up, cuddled him, walked to the other room, calmed him down and gave him a teething powder (he takes that a lot more willingly than medi) and offered water in a bottle (he won't take sippy cup at night) and he had a couple of oz and settled back to sleep a bit of pat and off he was till 5:30, and this was proper waking up (I was hoping for anything after 6am). So he got his milk had 5oz of the 6 offered, and he then tried going back to sleep, but after 30mins of moaning and groaning he was up for the day at 6am.
What do you think? Did I do this good bad or ugly?
then bfast at 7:30 and back to sleep at 8:15.
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Hi ladies,
Lats night was a bit odd.
Took forever to get DH to bed he slept only at 8:30, very rare for him, but woke up only at 6 :D
There was slight movement and stirring at 4 and I ran in to replug the pacifier and all was well again.
btw He is teething for sure so that could explain some strange behaviour...
Now if only I could sort out the EW we would be fine!
a happier Mukta
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Oh well, that's good news!! You must feel better today after getting a fairly decent night's sleep - bless ya!
Try not to be so hasty in going in so quickly as you want him to be able to settle by himself.
Work on the NWs first and then sort the EWs out. After all 6 isn't really too bad! In our house, anything before 6 is definitely still night time and anything after 7 is just fantastic!!
Keep up the good work!
Lis
xx
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Thanks Lis.
DS went down at 7:30 today so hopefully that should help with the EW. Fingers crossed.
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Hi Mukta!
Sorry I've not been on here supporting you. Was in UK for over 2 weeks and didn't have access to internet. Then everything's been mad trying to get back to normality when home again...
Just wondered how you're getting on now? Hope things have improved! Did you do the sleep training? Have you tried giving your DH parts from the BW books to read to help him understand the ideas behind the approaches? Or is he not keen on finding out?
Anyway hun, thinking of you and hoping things are going well for you.
Hugs, Vicku
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Hi Vicku,
Good to hear from you. Hope you had a wonderful trip to the UK, the weather has been lovely for the last 2 weeks so you did time it well.
Sleeping has been pretty good at our front with about 3/4 days a week being almost STTN nights :D a couple of days we have EW both most days we manage 6am or after and I am happy.
wrt the nights we are getting better at just putting him into bed and need WIWO about 2 time son a good night and DS falls asleep, some nights we have not needed WIWO at all. So progress for sure.
We have had a few nights of 2 hr wakings in the middle of the night but WIWO has helped.
BUT lats night was awful DS would not sleep etc, and has developed a bad cold today and I think his canines are pushing as well.
So all in all good progress and we are doing well, might have a bit of a stumble with the cold etc but at least I know how to come back on track..or so I think ;).
take care
Mukta
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Good to hear you've had success with WI/WO, that's been the best for us too. Hope his cold disappears quickly! We've battled one for a week and a half now...
speak to you soon! :-*
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Well done Mukta. You should be very proud.
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Thanks Mari.
To be honest we are still not completly there, but well on our path..and lets hope this does not jinx it!
Thank you again you wonderful ladies!