BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: jcjc205 on March 13, 2008, 15:30:40 pm
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Here's a summary of my baby's problems:
-She's almost 13 mo
-She wakes up several times (I've lost count, but anywhere from 2 - 8) during the night
-I almost always nurse her to sleep and back to sleep
-She sleeps in my bed after 3am
-I'm a single mom so there's no one to help me out at night
-My aunt takes care of her during the day and she's not really into the sleep training thing
-She takes random naps (sometimes 1, sometimes 2) anywhere from (20min - 2 hrs each)
Here are my questions before I start:
1. Does it make a difference if I do naps first or nights first?
2. Can I still nurse as part of the sleep routine?
3. Do I use PU/PD for naps as well?
4. Does it make a difference if I don't do naps at all?
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Well different parts of the brain are responsible for naps & night sleep so you might be ok to start with nights and the move onto daytime sleep.
1. Does it make a difference if I do naps first or nights first?
so I would probably work on nights as like you said your aunt is not going to help you out during the day... so maybe you could do the nights and if possible take a few weeks off at work or talk seriously to your aunt about it all and get her together on board to daytime sleep training later on
2. Can I still nurse as part of the sleep routine?
Yes, you can still nurse but make sure its the first part of the routine rather than the last and that after nursing you read her a book or sing her a song or something... so that she goes to sleep AWAKE!
3. Do I use PU/PD for naps as well?
well hse's too old for pu/pd so it would just be PD or WI/WO at this age. Or you could do the gradual withdrawal method.
4. Does it make a difference if I don't do naps at all?
Hmmmm.... well how does your aunt put her to sleep for naps? She doesn't nurse her right? So does she rock her??? Your little one still has a GOOD year of naps in her so I would seiously think about daytime sleep training as well. If she was say close to 2.5.. then I would maybe say it doesn't really matter.. just do what you can until naps are done with ... but she's only 13months so I am not sure you want to rock (or whatever it is she does) to sleep her.
She's probably in the middle of the 2-1 nap switch as well. What time are the naps? If she only takes one nap when is it and how long before she goes to sleep?
Layla
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Her naps are all over the place, like I said, sometimes 1, sometimes 2. Each are 20 - 2 hrs long. So there are days when she only sleeps 1 - 20 min nap all day!!! and other days she sleeps 2 - 2hrs naps so 4 hrs total!!.
My aunt bottlefeeds her to sleep, which is pretty close to nursing. And when the bottle is empty, she gives her a paci(dummy). I do the same to get her off my boob at night coz otherwise she won't let go.
I really don't know how to deal with naps, when I'm home for naps (which has been almost never lately) I just nurse her.
Either way, thanks for your response and yer, I will do nights first. I've tried the GW but it doesn't work, she's soooo stubborn that she doesn't let go until she's completely asleep or completely awake. So I'm pretty sure I'm gonna do PD.
Any suggestions for naps are much appreciated
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I plan to start next Tuesday, I'll be working from home Wed and Thurs.
Let me know if I need to change anything
Night routine (start at 7:30 - 7:45):
-quiet playing with bedroom toys (mostly stuffed animals)
-diaper change and PJs
-nursing
-book
-put in crib awake
Method (correct me if I'm wrong please):
-put her in crib awake
-she will cry
-pick her up, calm her down, put her back down
-she will cry, repeat until she doesn't cry anymore
-every time she wakes, repeat
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Hi jcjc205-
I think at your lo's age, you do not pick them up as it's too stimulating. Just lie her back down.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
The rest of it looks right- and the first few days will be hard, but then it should get easier.
Good luck-
Leslie
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At this age alot are still on 2 naps. The morning nap is about 3-3.5hrs from the time they wake and the afternoon nap around 3.5hrs after the morning nap ends with bedtime no more than 4hrs later.
So if she wakes around 7am then you could try something like this:
7am - wake
10.30-11:15am - morning nap (if she sleeps past 20mins, try waking her up at the 45min mark)
2.30-4pm - afternoon nap (this one should be longer because she's only taken a short morning nap)
7.30pm - bedtime
IF she's only slept for 20mins in the morning, then your aunt really needs to have her in bed BY the 2hr mark for the afternoon nap. 20mins is really not enough and not restorative enough for her to be awake any longer than 2hrs. If her afternoon nap is still a short one, then her bedtime needs to be bumped up.
Could you talk to your aunt about whats going on... all those nightwakings & try to convince her to sleep train.
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I agree that it might be difficult to continue to do this method for one so old as she is going to be quite heavy. I would recommend WIWO or PDWO if she stands in her cot. The rest of the bedtime routine looks ok. What is her daily routine like?
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she usually wakes up around 8:30 with my alarm.
she doesn't nap until at least 12pm. I've tried puting her down earlier and she just doesn't sleep.
Her naps go more or less:
12-1
and
3-4
or sometimes
2-4
and then there are odd days when she only naps 20 min or 4 hrs, but this is more the exception
What would you suggest for naps (GW, WI/WO, etc)?
Like I said, currently she falls asleep with bottle and/or paci only.
Will naps just correct themselves with night sleep training?
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she's about 21 lbs (9.5kg) so her weight doesn't bother me. I feel that she's just not gonna calm down if I leave her in the cot. And doing WIWO will just upset her more.
I posted about her naps in another thread, but they're more or less:
12-1 and 3-4 or 1-3
but she will only sleep with bottle and/or paci, I'm not sure what to do here.
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ok. Alex used to fall asleep with a bottle, she was also having a few during the night to get her back to sleep. TBH this is probably the only way that Clara knows how to get to sleep so she does need to be taught to sleep independantly and that is without you in the room so I really think that WIWO is the best way. There are other methods and maybe Gradual withdrawl might be useful to start with if you think that she isn't ready to start WIWO yet. Check out the FAQ at the top of these boards and you will find a thread there with advice about the both of these methods.
Also, am I right in thinking that she has 2 naps? If so then I think that she should be starting to reduce on of those and perhaps making the latest one earlier so that it doesn't rob her night time sleep. That way she will not be too tired and not have too much either.
I think that you have the right idea with being consistent and doing the same type of training for the bedtime and continuing for nightwakings and naps, try to do it for all of them and she will get the idea, but it's the type of training that you need to decide on and Tracy advises PUPD for a younger baby as it is very hard to do it and for an older baby it will be more stressful on you.
I hope this helps and I will try to support you along with others with whatever your decision.
Mari
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If she wakes around 8.30am, then she's probably not going to be ready for a nap until 12... so thats fine for the 1st nap. Then if she sleeps for about an hour or so for the 1st nap, then try to stretch her afternoon nap so that she goes down around 4pm.... so the afternoon nap is from around 4-5 and she can go to bed around 8-8.30pm
I don't think the naps will correct themself :-\. I would probaby do the pd method for naps as well if you're going to use it at night. If you are comfortable with the wi/wo method then use that for naps & nights. Have you heard of Pantley's gentle removal method? In any case, she will protest but you just have to be strong and not give in!
Here is the link to Pantley's method: www.index.php?topic=52857.0
{{{HUGS}}}
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JCJC - just to let you know that I've merged both topics so we can all help you in one place :) :-*
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I've actually read the whole Pantley book and tried the wdrl method and nothing. I do think I need to do PU/PD coz she's just gonna be too upset if I don't
Is it ok if I don't do naps till later or is it better to do them together?
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Consistency is the key, I would do it for both to avoid confusion. Also, be sure to try something for about 3 weeks before deciding that it won't work. It took about 3 weeks before I started seeing any improvement with WIWO, and then nearly 2 months before it actually worked so stick with whatever you try.
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Wasn't the PU/PD method the one on the "BW for Toddlers" book for the girl who nursed at night?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm just calling it something else.
Either way, the one described on the book is the one I'm gonna use. I will start tomorrow.
So, recap:
Day routine (starting Wed):
9:00 breakfast
11:00 milk
10-12 play
12-2 nap (probably won't happen)
2:30 lunch
3:30 milk
3-5 play
5 - dinner
6:30 milk
6-7:30 play
(this part starts tomorrow)
7:45 start bedtime routine
8:30 put to bed
Sleep training plan:
-play in her room to wind down
-nappy change & pjs
-nurse
-book
-put in cot awake!!!
-if she cries, I pick her up, calm her down, put back in cot
-repeat until she doesn't cry
-repeat for night wakings and for nap
Do I need to adjust daytime sleep for missed sleep from training or do I just stick to my schedule?
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ok, you could use the PUPD method if you really want to but what about only if she is really crying pick up just to help calm her, then, if just being there is enough to calm her I wouldn't pick her up.
Also, why do you say that she probably won't nap? are you having problems with naps too, how do you get her to sleep for these.
(sorry if I'm repeating questions here) :-[
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Ok, that "conditional" PU/PD sounds good.
Yes, I'm also gonna do naps. Currently she only naps with bottle/paci so I'll break that habit too. So I'm assuming that the first day (Wed) she's probably not gonna nap at 12pm coz of the sleep training.
I was asking if I should modify the bedtime if this is the case, or should I just stick to the new routine no matter what?
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Well, if she doesn't nap I would bring the bedtime earlier so that she can catch up a little and try to combat the overtiredness to a degree.
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But wouldn't moving the bed time just confuse her? I thought if I just stick to the bedtime no matter what, then the next day she'll still wake up at the same time.
Please correct me if I'm wrong
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By putting her down at the same time, she's only going to get more overtired. So to help keep her rested, you put her down earlier for the night. Allow for 12hr night... so if she's waking around 6am, put her down for the night at 6pm
Also you wrote in your routine that nap is from 12-2 and then put her to bed is 8.30pm... you probably want to make bedtime earlier than that cause she's not going to do too well on 6.5hrs A time before bed. So either bump up the bedtime OR do nap later than 12pm... so that its more in the middle of her day.... if she's waking around 8am then nap would be 1-3 and bedtime would be 8pm.
Good luck!
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When Alex was that age i tried to work around no more than 5.5 hours of activity time between naps and bedtime. It was a good guide for me.
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ok, got it. Move nap to 1-3
But do I move bedtime if the first day she doesn't nap, or she naps later or earlier?
I don't wanna put her down too early coz then she probably will wake up early, but I wanna do this right.
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Well, your ideal routine would be 5.5 hours of activity and that is your aim. If, however she doesn't nap she will have more chance of a better night's sleep if she goes to bed early as overtiredness is the cause of nightwakings and early wakings.
The reasons for your daughter's nightwakings is due to a combination of overtiredness and the inability to resettle after awakening during the night. This was the trouble that I had with Alex too, she was overtired and I was giving her milk to resettle her back to sleep, by sleep training her (WIWO) she is now able to resettle herself when she wakes during the night, which she still does, we all do to a certain extent.
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mari,
Ok, got it. Thank you soooooo much for all your answers and support. I think I'm ready to start with the training now.
Tonight is the night... wish me luck.
I'll post again tomorrow and let you know how it went.
Thanks to everyone else as well
PS. I have to say that this website loads extremely well on my blackberry.
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Great. Now you have a plan that should be suitable for both of you I wish you so much luck. Please give it a couple of weeks, psyche yourself up for not giving in and when I got to that frame of mind I did well although it was hard. (I will help as much as I can and I will guarantee the support of other members here, they will be your rock)
Get as many early nights as possible, it will help you to cope with the nights. I mean really early, like 8-9pm some nights until you are over the worst.
GOOD LUCK
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sorry, one more question:
how long do I try to get her down for a nap before I give up? do I just keep going or do I stop at some point?
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Hello!
If towards the end of the 'normal' nap time she still hasn't gone to sleep, you should get her up - BUT bring bedtime earlier to compensate for the missed sleep!
I really wish you lots of luck tonight - it is hard in the beginning (I've done it with a 2yr old!) but the results do soo pay off - the key is consistency!
Don't forget, we are here to support you through the tough times!
Lis :-*
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what do I do now !!!!
I came home to find that she took a nap at 5:30 and was still naping when I got home at 6:15, she woke up soon afterwards, tho.
Do I still stick to my plan? She had about 2 hrs sleep total during the day
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Well... I did it. We started the routine at 7:50 and I put her down at 8:20.
I did PU/PD 20 times, and now I know why you said she was too heavy. She cried soooo much :'(, I couldn't believe it...:(
After the 20th time, I got inside the crib with her (I'v done that before) and just held her and when she stoped criying, I put her down again. This worked really great.
It took 25 PDs total, but she finally fell asleep at around 9:15pm
I'll let you know how the rest of the night went tomorrow
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Well, she slept from 9:15 to about 2am.
I did PU/PD too many times to count, and again she cried soooo much :-[
She finally fell asleep around 4am, and she woke up around 7:30. At that point I didn't know what to do so I got her some milk in her cup and she drank it really fast, meaning she was probably really hungry. Then we just sat quietly in the rocking chair until 8am when we officially started our day.
She looks pretty tired and I'm not sure if she'll make it until 1pm. Should I modify to two naps one 11-12 and 3-4?
She'll probably fight me on those too.
Well, we'll see how the rest of the day goes. I'll keep you posted
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Well, at her age, some children still have a little morning nap so if she is really tired you could try a little catnap in the morning around 10ish just for half an hour and then another long nap at 1pm, what do you think?
(sorry if this is late BTW) Let me know how you got on today
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She went down at 12pm and only did 1 hr so I put her down at 7 to make up for some lost sleep.
This time she only took less than 30min to go down and a lot less crying
I hope there aren't too many NWs tonight
It's going well so far, but then again, it's only been one day
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You're doing really well!
If she wakes around 7.30-8am then try for 2 naps; the morning nap around 11am for 45mins or so and the afternoon nap around 3pm
As a rule of thumb... if the morning nap is only 30mins long, put her down for the afternoon nap no more than 3hrs later (that is, for her to be asleep by 3hrs... so start your windown routine at 2.5hrs)
If the morning nap is 45mins long, do your windown routine about 3hrs later so that she's hopefully asleep by 3.5hrs.
Bedtime is generally no more than 4hrs later
If she's not taking the morning nap then aim for 1 nap and put her down earlier for the night to make up for the lost sleep
At her age, around 13hrs is about right
Fingers crossed for a good night!!!
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Thanks for the nap advice. I'll keep it in mind.
The night was extremely good given the circumstances.
Put down for bed at 7pm, asleep by 7:30 and not a peep until 6am!!!! at which point it took her about 1.5 hrs to go back to sleep, but because she slept 2 min and woke up to make sure I was still there I guess. She woke up for the day at 8:20am
I'm sooooo happy this is working ;D
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So glad this is working. Be prepared for a few hiccups so don't give up, I predict an easy solution here, Clara is a quick learner!
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Well, last night went "well" went down after 20min at 7:30, woke up at 2am and took 40min to get back to sleep. Then woke up at 4am and took 5 min to get back to sleep, then woke up at 5am and here is where i think i made a mistake. It was soooo cold in our room that I let her sleep with me. I she went to sleep right away and woke up at 7am all happy and rested.
Today she naped for 1 hr (12:30-1:30) after 30min of crying and then woke up, but I was able to get her back to sleep and it's now 2:20 and she's still sleeping!!!
I feel that this is going very well :) what do you think?
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I think she's doing very well ;D
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Yes, its oin really well by the sound of it. Be careful with takin her into your bed if you don't want it to continue, you'll be amazed at how easily they pick up on something
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UPDATE:
She's been doing very well during the night. Last night she went from 8 to 5.
However, she's been waking up almost every night between 4 - 6 and she takes at least an hour to go back to sleep.
She's also not naping well, only once since tuesday has she done more than 1 hr for nap.
Any suggestions for these two?
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Not napping well during the day can lead to long and many nightwakings at night... so they are probably related.
What time does her aunt put her down for a nap? Its hard with naps around this age as she may not be too good on 1 nap yet so could aunty put her down for a catnap in the morning and then another nap 3hrs later?
The best thing is not to keep her up too long so if she;s only had 1nap and it ends say at 1pm, then try to have her in bed for the night around 6-6.30pm
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I've tried but it's impossible since I get home at 6:30 earliest.
She's not tired in the morning so she wouldn't sleep even if I tried. Today she only naped 1.5 hrs (12-1:30) and she was up at 7am. I'll try to get her to bed at 7, but that may not happen :(
I can live with the EW I guess... :(
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I think 1.5hrs and a 7am start is great!!! ;D It all depends on what you call early waking...
I think if you can stick to the 7am, 12-1.30nap and 7pm bedtime then that would be great and things will improve. Can aunt feed her and you do the bedtime routine... i know things will be rushed... but then slowly you can look at pushing her nap to 12.30pm and then 1pm so that she's waking at 8am, nap is from 1-2.30/3pm and bedtime is 8pm!
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I'm perfectly happy with the 7am wake-up, as long as there isn't one at around 5am that takes an hour for her to resettle.
She still hasn't stoped this. Yesterday I got home at 6:45pm and I tried to get her to bed right away. She was finally asleep at 8:15pm. No crying, just turning like crazy. But I'm pretty sure it was because yesterday she figured out how to stand up w/o having to pull herself up from anything, which is what she kept on doing on her crib for at least an hr.
And then she was up a lot. First at 12am, which I didn't mind too much since I hadn't fallen asleep yet. Then 1am, but it only took maybe 20min to resettle. Then up at 4am and this one took 1.5 hrs. and then up at 7am for the day. Every time, she kept on practicing her "standing-up"
So that 4 - 6am NW is the one I need to get rid of.
One more thing, my aunt refused to help w/ the trainning and put her down for her nap w/ bottle, but I guess there's not much I can do there.
Suggestions?
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That's a tough one :( DH refused to do WI/WO when we were sleep training DS. We argued so much about it too and unfortunately he was the one that put DS to bed as I don't get home until 10pm.
Not much you can do, apart from gently explaining to your Aunt what you are trying to achieve and why - but you've probably tried that already.
What I did, was to resign myself to the fact that DS would go to bed one way with DH and another way with me. And of course I did all the NWs. I think the whole sleep training probably took a little bit longer this way though ::)
I really feel for you - it's a difficult situation and of course you have to be grateful that Aunt helps with DD and all that:P
But you are doing really well and have achieved so much in such a short time! Just carry on as you are!
Hugs
Lis
:-*
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As far as you Aunt is concerned. I had this prob with MIL and you will be surprised how they adapt to doing things with different people. I realised that MIL put Alex with a bottle until a few weeks ago!!!! But I haven't had a problem getting her off to sleep, apparantly she never adapted her and didn't take any notice of what I say (never does, but that's another story!!!) anyhow, it didn't affect the way that she went to bed for me, MIL only puts her to bed once a week occasionally.
I would try to get your Aunt to help with the consistency but TBH if she isn't there too often then I woulndn;t worry too much.
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Ok... this is now getting worse.
Last night, put to bed at 6pm since she only naped 30min. Asleep by 6:45. Woke up 9:30pm. I wasn't there and my aunt disregarded my instructions to put her back in her crib or at least to not leave the room. I got home 9:45 to find them both cleaning up the kitchen >:(
Anyways, she went right back to sleep when I took her back to her room. Then awake at 3am, 3:30am, 4am, and at 5am she didn't go back to sleep anymore. I'm sooo exhausted :(
From 5 to 7am she kept trying to go back to sleep, but she just couldn't get confortable, so at 7am she started playing and forgot all about sleeping.
Suggestions??
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Well my only suggestion is to try and talk to aunt about the consequences of staying past bedtime because in all honesty I think her being awake till 9pm is what would have made the night much worse AND her innability to get herself back to sleep at 5am!
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Oh dear! Poor you :(
I agree with Layla. You have to speak to your Aunt and explain very nicely why it is not a good idea to have DD cleaning the kitchen at 9.45 ::)
Lis
x
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Well, I guess as long as I'm there during the night, I'll be able to take care of all the NWs. And I'll just have to live with bottle-to-sleep for naps...
My sleeptrainning method has morphed from PU/PD to GW. What we've been doing lately is: I rock her for a few min and then we both go inside her crib. Then she twists & turns for a while and then she calms down and I do Sh/Pat and she sleeps. It works ok in that she goes back to sleep, however, she needs me to be inside her crib to go back to sleep.
Last night we had NWs as follows:
Asleep by 7:30pm
NW1 10:00pm
NW2 1:00am
NW3 3:15am
NW4 5:45am - at which point I gave her a bottle
Up for the day 7:30am
Each NW it took her maybe 5 min to go back to sleep. Every time she was standing in her crib, so I got inside the crib and layed her down and used Shh/Pat
Thoughts/Suggestions??
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one more question, how do I change the title of the post?
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Hmmmm well you don't really want to be replacing one thing for another :-\.... how about you stay BY her cot rather than getting in there and shushing her like that instead. Woudl your arm fit through the rail? Could you pat her her back or rub her to settle her?
To change the post you just go into the very first post you wrote and no the top right corner you will see "quote" "modify", etc... Click on MODIFY and change the title. Or you can just tell us what you want to change it to and I can do it for you :)
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Well...
last night was a good night. To bed at 7pm and asleep by 8pm with no crying, just crazy twisting & turning.
Only one NW at 4:45am. Gave her milk, she finished all 8 oz and was still awake and then some more turning and fell back asleep until 8am.
I'm thinking it may have been coz she naped very well (almost 2 hrs) and my aunt was able to just rock her to sleep, so no bottle.
I hope she keeps it up !!!
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It has been 2 weeks since I started sleep training. And not once has she slept pass 5am, no matter what time she went to sleep.
She is sleeping at least 7 hrs straight, so it hasn't been a total disaster, but that means that the most I get out of those is 5 hrs.
I really, really need a full night sleep!!! :(
When she wakes before 5am, I go into her crib/cot and calm her down. She then goes back to sleep only to wake up about 1 hr or so later. Depending on what time it is (if it's still before 5am) I repeat. If it's pass 5, I bring her to my bed and give her a bottle. She drinks all 8oz/250ml and then complains coz she wants more. She then sleeps until at least 7am, but sometimes later. If I don't give her the milk, she'll just cry and cry and not really sleep until about 7am, when she decides that it's time to wake up.
So she has obviously learned to soothe herself since: I've heard her complain and go back to sleep, she needs almost no help to fall asleep at bedtime (she does take a while though) and she sleeps 7 hrs straight. It's those early morning NWs that I need to fix.
She is also naping better and more or less transition successfully to 1 nap at least 1.5hrs long but usually closer to 2 hrs
Thoughts/Suggestions??
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what time does she go down for her nap?
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Well, she's not really on a schedule. Since sometimes she wakes up at 7am (like this morning) other times she sleeps until 8:30am, so she naps about 5 hrs after she woke up (aka, at 12pm if she woke up at 7am)
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ew's can bring about a vicious circle!! we've just gone thru 0515 wake ups and they were a killer....lots of sympathy for you on that one and we too still have nw's and Finlay is 20 months old ::) anyhow, I figured fin was shattered from the ew's and hence he became OT early morning. the thing is the earlier he napped the earlier he woke the next day, strange but true. I've also read that the more OT they are for bed means that they fall into a heavy sleep very early on and then the nw's start...so you see the circle emerging?!! anyhow, I pushed his nap time back so every other day i made him hang on 10 -15 mins more for his nap so....he used to sleep at 11ish til 1pm or 1030 on his early morning days ::) and now i put him down at approx 12- 1230....whether it was just luck or the ew's had run their course, i'm not sure but he sleeps til 0630 now.
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so put her down for nap at 12pm no matter what time she wakes?
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I think that you have come so far!!!!
You have got the nights more or less sorted, she just needs to get her daytime schedule on track. Have you thought to wake her at 7ish regardless and then she might get on track eventually.
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I know I've definetely made tons of progress. :)
I guess I can give the 7:30am wake up call a try. I hate getting up that early though, but if it means a full night sleep. I'm all for it.
New Schedule:
7:30 - wake
12:00 - 2:00 nap
7:30 - bed
I'll let you know how it goes
Thanks again.
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Or, you could move the whole thing around to suit you. What about 8am wake, 1pm nap, 8pm bed?? That way you get a lie in.
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I don't think that will help since she's more often up earlier than 8.
I'll try it tomorrow morning and let you know how it goes. I'll also try to go to bed at 9 to make up for lost morning sleep.
Also, should I continue with the bottle at 6am or stop that?
Thanks again
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Getting an early night is the only way to cope. Sometimes I was in bed at 8pm to combat the night wakings.
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any progress jc?
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Well... she gets at least 7 straight hrs of sleep every night. She no longer cries when falling asleep. I don't really help her much, I just sit in her cot/crib until she's asleep. So this is definetely progress...
However, she's still waking up between 3 - 5 am. She usually goes back to sleep but I just can't seem to get rid of this one.
Last night I tried reducing the milk from 8oz to 7oz. She woke up at 4:30 but settled back down w/ some help from me. Then up at 6:30, gave her milk but she realized it wasn't enough and she didn't go back to sleep. :(
She's also not naping very well either. She usually averages one 1-1.5hrs nap. Maybe this has something to do with it.
Thoughts/suggestions?
I actually thought about reducing the milk by 10ml every day. What do you think?
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At her age I think that she should have around 18-20oz per day along with solids, if she is getting that then you should be ok.
As for the nightwakings, what is her exact routine now?
Let us know her wake up, nap time and length, bed time. How does she go off to sleep now for naps and bedtime?
Sorry to ask this again but it's probs changed after the sleep training so it will help to get the updated picture.
Thanks, and well done on your progress.
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My aunt does not believe in schedules, so she doesn't really have a nap schedule. I can't seem to be able to convince her. :(
"She naps when she's tired" she says, so somewhere between 12 - 2. She usually naps 1 - 1.5 hrs. Even on the weekends when I'm there. I just can't get her to nap any longer.
Sleep:
About 5 hrs after she woke up from nap I take her to bed. She takes 30min - 1hr to fall asleep. All I do is sit in her crib. Also, I found this music box that she really likes, so I play that until she's really sleepy, I turn it off before she's completely asleep coz I think it's pretty loud. I don't pat or rub her back or anything since when I do, she pushes my hand away.
She sleeps until about 3-4am (depending what time she went to sleep). Then she usually wakes up and I go to her and settle her back down. Then she wakes at around 5-6am. At the second wake I give her milk and sometimes I bring her to my bed. Then she sleeps until 7 - 8:30 (again, depending what time she woke up before).
Is these two NWs that I need help with getting rid of. Like I said before, I thought about reducing the milk by 10ml every night. Or I could water it down, add 1 oz of water every few days. Or I could try "wake to sleep".
She's definitely drinking enough milk and eating enough during the day.
Which would you recommend?
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ok, if she is drinking enough milk during the day then I really think that she shouldn't need it at 5am so IMO you should stop. When I made that decision with Alex I did it cold turkey. (I'm hard eh!!!!!)
You could try a sippy cup and try to encourage her to look for it if she is thirsty as I really think that the sucking of the bottle is a prop.
The other thing is that when you take her into your bed, that could also become a prop that could become earlier and earlier. TBH, if she wakes and it looks like you can;t get her back with any kind of WIWO or SH pat, then I would be inclined to start her day. Even after a year of Alex sleeping in her own bed all night, she can have one night of sickness that will make me take her to my bed and she will try to get there every night for the next week! So you see how easy it is for them to get into a habit! Make that habits that you encourage positive ones.
Are you actually in the room when she falls asleep? If so, I would try to get out of the room as soon as you lay her down, maybe through Gradual withdrawal or WIWO.
Wake to sleep is only suitable for habitual wakeups that occur at the same time every night, I dont think that this sounds like it will cure your problem.
I would also try to ask your aunt to come on board with you. Try to explain to her what you are going through and the importance of keeping her sleep patterns the same so that you can get her schedule in order. You are right in trying to put her to bed around 5-6 hours after wake up from the nap, but the nap also needs to be long enough for her to be able to avoid overtiredness.
Are you due any holidays? Then perhaps you could get her into a routine over a week or two and it might be easier for your aunt to follow your pattern. Or maybe you could write it down and ask your aunt to follow it. She is your baby at the end of the day and although you feel that your aunt is doing you a favour and you won't like to tell her, I am sure that if you put it to her in a way that she can understand that it will benefit your daughter in the long run she should understand and work in partnership with you. She should really be doing this with regards to everything, not only sleep as when it comes to discipline matters for instance, it will be imperative that you work together to ensure that your daughter has the consistency of care that she deserves. (sorry to go off on one there but I am working together with parents everyday like this as a childminder so I really know how important this is for your daughter)
I hope that this is helpful and doesn't sound too much like a lecture! sorry if it does, it's not meant to be, I have just been to a lecture and find it hard to get out of school mode for a few hours.
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Mari,
Thanks for your answer. It does sound a bit like a lecture but I think I needed to hear that. :)
I can't get rid of milk cold turkey, but I was hoping that either watering it down or reducing it slowly would help. Or maybe I could delay it, say 15 minutes every few days.
I cannot possibly start the day at 4:30am. It would never work for either of us. She usually goes back to sleep after her milk and sleeps until 7 - 8:30.
I am in the room but just sitting on her bed. I don't think this makes a difference since we're still sharing a room.
Believe me, I've tried explaining this to her over and over. She just doesn't believe me and dismisses everything I say by labeling me an "unexperienced mother who believes everything she hears".
I know this is gonna be a problem later, when my LO is older, but I don't think she'll be around then. I can't really take vacation time from work right now. I did when I first started sleep training 3 wks ago, so I can't again for a while. I did write it down, and she ignored it. She also doesn't believe in overtiredness, which is becoming a huge disagreement between us. She believes that if someone is tired, they'll fall asleep and stay asleep and sleep late. She also believes that an early bedtime means an EW.
Actually, last night I wanted to get her to bed at 6:30 (when I got home from work) so I asked my aunt to feed her dinner at 5:30. She did not, and she purposely made it so that I couldn't put her to bed until 7:30, even though she woke up from nap at 1pm. >:(
Anyways... sorry about my rambling... do you think the reducing/watering/delaying the milk would work/help? If so, which one should I try first?