BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: em_here on May 27, 2008, 12:19:41 pm
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Abbi has been on whole milk for 2 months now, all seemed fine except for her skin having eczema all over it :-\ :-\ She used to have the runs with it dreadful. Over the last few weeks I have noticed her poos getting runnier and runnier and more and more frequent. She went six times yesterday :-\ She has welts on her bum which make her scream when she goes for a wee :'(
Sooooo i rang the dietician who said to immediately cut out milk and replace with Soya...... She said a formula like Infasoy or Wysoy. Soooooo ok, i have a couple concerns
1. I know babies react to soya a lot when they have MPI, and she reacted to it horribly when she was teeny tiny
2. It STINKS makes her skin smell, her poo smell YUK
3. I heard something about hormones..... is this true?
Am just a bit wound up about it all, as dietician said replace with complete soy (yoghurts etc)
What are your thoughts. She said to give it a 2 week trial? Why has this just happened when she seemed ok before?
Ah am just a bit sad :(
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Ah am just a bit sad :(
Not surprised :( Poor little tooter.
I don't have any advice but wanted to give you some (((Hugs))) xx
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Awwww thanks Nicola, hugs always appreciated xxxxx
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Very welcome. Nothing worse than been worried about your baby x
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Emma, so sorry that Abbi is reacting to the whole milk. If she has reacted to say before then I think at this point I would be reluctant to introduce it. If you can it would be better to go back to an elemental formula, although I know you found it hard to get Abbi to drink it. I suppose rice milk with added calcium is another option as long as she is eating a varied diet to give her all the nutrients. Fats are a big thing because rice milk is particuarly low in it.
I have also heard about the hormones in soy but not really looked into it as James is allergic to soy anyway. I know what you mean about the smell of soy formula though as we did try James on it at around 7 months. Having said that neocate smells terrible aswell.
Kelly
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B has been on rice milk since he was 12 months. we just fed him alot of fatty things like avacado and other things like that. that way he got the fat other places. and we use the added calcium kind so we did n;t have to worry about calcium content. our GI specialist said that about 99.9% of kinds with milk and soy intolerances will grow out of them by age 2. so she suggests every 3-6 months trying things out in the moringn and see ing what happens through the day. HTH. good luck I am so scared to try things with B now because I don't want him to throw up like before.
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Hi there. So sorry to hear what you are going through. We are facing the same battle with our Thomas. He just completed a re-dairy and soy trial at 2 years and was unable to tolerate either. He is so much worse since then too. Our GI told us that it takes between 6-8 weeks for a slow onset intolerance to build up in their system. That is true for Thomas because he did really well at first. We use Rice milk with calcium, almond milk, red meats, fatty snacks, olive oil on everything to try to boost his nutrition but I am becoming increasingly concerned because he is hitting that stage of not wanting to eat at all. He also won't drink anything in a cup he can't see through for fear it will taste "yucky". He remembers the Elecare and Neocate trial. He also says mum mum taste before he will take a drink of anything. Too smart and so hard to trick these days. It makes it that much harder on me. I do have to applaud his creativitiy and will.
jen
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Gosh, so sorry to hear this. Zach was the same way with whole milk and personally I never did soy. 1.) He showed positive to being allergic at 9 mos. (even though that could have been wrong) and 2.) There is just something about soy milk, I read to many scary things. I know lots and lots of people have used soy formula, milk, yogurts, etc. for many years with no problems.
You can read all kinds of stuff on the internet about the hormones in soy milk and scare you to death. Not sure how much is really true though.
I know when Tyler was born, the Ped that saw him in the hospital said that he does not like to do soy formula's/milk.
I did rice milk with Zach and added 2 tablespoons of cocunut milk for the fat and 1 tablespoon of MLO rice protein for the protein. With the cocunut milk added, it gave it as much fat as whole milk. If she eats meats or eggs, then you don't have to worry about adding the rice protein powder.
Just google soy milk and you will read a lot about it.
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Thanks so much everyone, well the runs cleared up and are now BACK, so mucousy and loose. Dietician said deffo have a 2 week zero dairy diet so started this afternoon after talking to her, we got some chocco soy milk and she has drank that, we have to start her on calcium supps too. She has these bumps all over her arms and legs kinda like goosebumps but I think I know what they are as Wendy described them on another thread, is that caused by intolerance? If the soy doesnt work there will be more tests and investigations to see what is causing the loose nappies and the skin probs
Any info on the skin/further tests that would be needed if dairy free doesnt help etc would be mucho appreciated. Now I have the nightmare tantrums to deal with when she wants a cheese or yoghurt snack, sigh sigh sigh, good job there's soy yoghurts, is there dairy free cheese? Sorry for all the q's lol
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KP the skin thing was called, just reading up on it..... interesting
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I just typed a long post and lost it. Let me try again.
One suggestion that I know helped Zach was starting on a non-dairy probiotic. It will help restore the good bacteria in her gut. Since like 85% of your immune system is in your gut, it is very important to be certain you have the good bacteria. I found one at a local health food store. Most are grown on milk cultures, but you can get them non-dairy. You could also order online.
Zach went through months of chronic diaherra and I know for a fact that going dairy free and the probiotics is what helped him. He was sick so much with every stomach virus, strep throat, ear infections, you name it until 18 months. I took him off all dairy at 14 months and started the probiotics until 18 mos. and he has only been sick once since then.
They do make soy yougurts and also if you want to cook with chocalate, they make a non-dairy chocalate.
If she eats icecream, I know RiceDream makes good icecream. It is made from rice milk.
Just be sure to watch ALL hidden ingredients so that you know you are avoiding milk 100%.
Let me know what you think about KP and milk or wheat. Has she had this since a baby?
Tyler's has gotten worse and I think it is from the few table foods that have wheat in them.
Keep us posted on how she is on Soy Milk. I am glad you can do that.
Hugs, Wendy
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Thanks so much Wendy :) The KP has only started since she went onto milk products....... I am pretty confident of that, Ive always assumed it was eczema, but I googled KP after I saw u had wrote about it on another thread and it is spot on to what dd has, even looked at pics of it. DD's is pretty severe, all over her legs and all over her upper arms, it looks red in parts, dh's dad has skin problems (psorisis) so hope that my darling baby isnt in for any of these things :( :( Will deffo let u know how it goes :) Feel horrid cause she will only drink the chocolate soy milk and its sugar loaded :( :(
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I took at it as better than nothing. Maybe try mixing it half and half with chocolate soy milk and regular.
OR Can you get Ovalatin there? I just googled it and here is a link for the UK. It is a great alernative.
www.ovaltine.co.uk/en/article.asp?chco_id=32
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Hiya, meant to update,Abbi is reacting HORRIBLY to the Soy, rash all over her cheeks, watery smelly poo, worse than on dairy and sore bottom :( Dietician is unavailable until monday, shall I stick her back onto her neocate for the time being? My poor baby :(
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YES. I deft. would. Zach reactted worse to soy than milk also.
How is her diet with foods? Does she eat meat, fruits, vegetables and good fat foods?
I did rice milk. I had to add stuff to it.
8 oz. rice milk
2 oz. of cocunut milk (this will = the same fat in whole milk)
1 tablespoon of MLO rice protein
And then i put strawberry nesquick in it for the flavor.
If she is eating pretty well then you could give her orange juice for the calcium. If she has reflux though, that may make it worse.
You know though, it want hurt her to just stuff all "milk" products of any kind for 2 weeks and see if things improve.
Here is some info about rice milk, I did on another post.
With rice milk you are getting much less fat and protein.
You can get fortified rice milk, that has the same amount of calcium as whole milk. See chart below
Cow Milk Rice Dream
calories 150 120
protein (grams) 8 1
carbohydrate g. 11 30
fat g. 8 2
calcium mg. 291 20
My son was not eating a well balanced diet at all and was also low weight. What I did was to 8 oz. rice milk added:
- 2 oz. of coconut milk (adds the fat)
- 1 tablespoon of MLO brand rice protein (adds the protein)
- and strawberry nesquick to make it taste better.
He loved it from 14 to 18 mos. old.
FYI: You need to have a complete protein in order for your body to get the fatty acids that you need.
A complete protein is:
- Animal product - Milk, cheese, etc.
- Soy milk is a complete protein
Soy beans are a high protein bean originally grown in China. Considered a complete protein, they contain all 8 essential amino acids.
- A grain (ex. wheat) and a legume in the same 24 hours is a complete protein.
So my question to the nutrients was, Does the rice protein contain all the essential amino acids our bodies need since it is just a grain. I would think they would also need some form of a legume (beans, peanut butter), etc. to make it a complete protein.
She contacted the company and it is considered a complete protein and contains all the fatty acids.
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Thanks soooo much for the info wendy, I gave her rice milk with nesquik today :) I couldnt find the coconut milk though :( she does have a good diet which is great! dietician has prescribed calcium to replace her milk, but she does love a milky drink and to get more fat into her would be GREAT! Not that shes little by any means but SO do not want to end up with a weight issue kwim?
She has had a normal poo today HURRAH!!!!! So thats with no dairy and no soy. dietician said to eliminate for 3 weeks and then see where we go from there, may just be it is only yoghurt she can tolerate :)
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Sorry i didnt see this before hun :'(
massive hugs to you xxxx keep us posted :-*
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Thanks honey xxxxxx
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Did she prescribed the calcium supplements just in case she would not drink the rice milk?
The rice milks here are fortified with calcium and vitamins.
It actually has more calcium in it then milk.
Check on the International isle in your stores. You may be able to order cocunut milk online also.
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Wendy - Do you know if the MLO brand rice protein has any taste? The one that I got in our health foods sections was just awful. It did not mix well and tasted like metal. I always try eveything first before I experiment on Thomas and it was not nice. I try to add it to baked goods too and this one was so dark. I would like something light or white that would be more easily disguised. Where do you buy it? Thanks!!
Jen
mom of Andrew- sensitive 5 year old with sensory issues, former preemie
Thomas - Textbook 2 year old with MSPI that makes him very cranky!!
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Hi Jen:
I really don't think it has much taste. To be honest, I was not brave enough to drink the rice milk, but it did not have a smell. If my son would drink that, I think anyone would.
It is also very light color, like the color of light brown rice.
Are you in the US?
Here is a link for it.
www.veganessentials.com/catalog/brown-rice-protein-powder-by-mlo-gluten-free.htm
www.houseofnutrition.com/030963020500.html
www.mothernature.com/shop/detail.cfm/sku/82914
The only store I found it was our local health store. I could not find this brand in grocery stores.
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Hiya Wendy, I will deffo have a look out for calcium fortified rice milk, thanks :)
Dietician seems to be of the mind, that it doesnt matter if she only drinks juice, as long as I give calcium supplements. The rice milk we have is not calcium fortified, just a few vits, but she chugged down about 9oz of it today which was brill, so will look for calcium fortified and see how we go xxxxx Shes eating her brekkie now :) and has rice milk on the cereal :) she seems happy with that :)
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She really will be fine and healthy even if she never drinks a drop of cows milk....the milk companies really did a great marketing job all these years, it really is not necessary in the human diet.
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Thanks Michelle, I suppose im just trying to make sure she gets all her essential vits and fats etc and it does seem quite limited without dairy, and never know what else to give except for the caveman diet of meat, veg and potatoes in various combos.
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B has been on rice milk his whole second year of life. he eats meat sometimes once and other times twice a day. we also give him avacado a lot becaus eit is really fatty. he has always been small and still is so the Ped isn't concerned. I would just make sure you are giving her more of the "fatty" foods, like the healthy ones, in her day. then she will get all her fat and vitamins and everythign liek that with no problem.
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Thanks Melissa, will get some avocado methinks. I am so clueless about foods in general really apart from knowing meat, potatoes and veg are good for us lol!!!
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I also had a dietician friend tell me that the Asian cultures never ingest dairy or cow products, but have a very low incidence of osteoporosis. They do eat tons of leafy greens and bok choy (which I have not figured out how to cook). They do eat plenty of soy which does not work for us. Like Michelle said, she will be fine. I think the same about Thomas because I worry about down the road when he's 30 or so. I don't want to look back and think I could have done more to boost his health now becuase I did not know. It is hard to find good help. OuR GI is nice and very smart, but she does not want to let us see a local dietician because she does not trust the ones in our small city. I think any little bit would help!!! It is hard to figure all this out on your own.
Take care
Jen
mom to Andrew- sensitive 5 year old
Thomas -2 and textbook, MSPI
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Thanks Jen :) So Thomas is still MSPI at 2, poor thing :(
Little update.......... Abigail is enjoying the rice milk, so I see no need to give her the supplements (calcium), just not, she is having around 12-16oz of it a day.
Also, she still has the runs pretty bad, I know its not long into dairy free again, but thought I would see some difference by now. Come to think of it though, on the neocate, she never had SOLID poos but they had some kind of form to them kwim? What SHOULD a normal baby poo look like? hers were very soft on neocate, but never firm kwim? Looooovely tmi here lol!! Also, I gave her a very small amount of dried fruit which came back thru her fully formed along with the watery brown liquid which is her poo, is it normal for that to come thru like this?
Any thoughts would be great
Thanks you all! xxxx
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WOW, this sounds just like Zach. Everything he ate came out whole.
At the time, the feeding clinic thought that he was not chewing his food. I personally thought that was bull crap.
Get her some probiotics. I know a dairy/soy free diet and the probiotics for 4 months is what changed Zach.
His poor little intestines had no more of the good bacteria left, therefore everything he ate like that just went right throw him.
I remember giving him freeze dried apples (and they are supposed to dissolve right in your mouth). Hours later, he would litterally crap out the apples. It looked like I put chocolate syrup on them and stuck them in his diaper.
Oneday he ate a banana. That night he pooped and of course I was looking all through it. It had these little strings all in it. I had no clue what it was, freaked out, anyhow it was the banana...
We had to take a poop sample to be tested and well I took them a cup of chocolate covered green beans.....
:-0
Okay I have said enough, are you grossed out now.
So what I am saying is.. Give the dairy free diet more time and start her on probiotics. I really think you will see a difference.
If you need any help finding a dairy free brand, I will be glad to help you.
BTW, what brand of rice milk are you using? Deft. look for one with the calcium.
Hugs, Wendy
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Big ((((hugs)))) Emma :-*
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Emma, Asda sell coconut milk (although i think its the type you use in cooking, is that the same one?) And they sell rice milk with added calcium in the free from section.... :-*
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Emma, Asda sell coconut milk (although i think its the type you use in cooking, is that the same one?) And they sell rice milk with added calcium in the free from section.... :-*
Yep just found the rice milk today with the calcium, thanks! And it was ASDAs :)
Wendy, I have more to add, so will be back in a little bit.... thanks xxx
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WOW, this sounds just like Zach. Everything he ate came out whole.
At the time, the feeding clinic thought that he was not chewing his food. I personally thought that was bull crap.
Get her some probiotics. I know a dairy/soy free diet and the probiotics for 4 months is what changed Zach.
His poor little intestines had no more of the good bacteria left, therefore everything he ate like that just went right throw him.
I remember giving him freeze dried apples (and they are supposed to dissolve right in your mouth). Hours later, he would litterally crap out the apples. It looked like I put chocolate syrup on them and stuck them in his diaper.
Oneday he ate a banana. That night he pooped and of course I was looking all through it. It had these little strings all in it. I had no clue what it was, freaked out, anyhow it was the banana...
We had to take a poop sample to be tested and well I took them a cup of chocolate covered green beans.....
:-0
Okay I have said enough, are you grossed out now.
So what I am saying is.. Give the dairy free diet more time and start her on probiotics. I really think you will see a difference.
If you need any help finding a dairy free brand, I will be glad to help you.
BTW, what brand of rice milk are you using? Deft. look for one with the calcium.
Hugs, Wendy
Hiya Wendy, am back lol. OK so the nappies you describe are identical to dd's when she has any fruit or sweetcorn or peas..... like I gave her some dried fruit and a few hours later, brown watery yuckness with just lumps of undigested food poor thing :( Will deffo look for some probiotics when I am in town on Sat, might give the local health shop a drop in. Yep we found the calcium fortified rice milk, she is having 2 good cups of this a day, so need to ask the dietician if calcium supps are really needed as she enjoys the milk so much :) It tastes just like rice pudding lol, so no wonder she likes it ;)
Thanks for the hugs Nicola xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Keep us posted!
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I used to take my ds off of grapes, dried fruit and would give him primarily applesauce when he had loose stools. If you haven't already tried yams or swt. potato I would give it a try, daily. It will stop her up a bit. Rice is good for that too...drizzled with olive oil. Make sure the probiotic you get is soy/dairy free. Biogaia is a good brand. DS has been on an MSPI diet since 3m (even through my breastmilk). I limit his wheat intake too. Rice bread is great toasted with a little bit of syrup or honey. Rice will definitely firm up stools. I know this is hard. DS is 21 mo. He accidentally drank some soy milk from another's cup. His diapers were so bad for 3 days. He awoke early from naps and in the am. That soy milk is unfermented, which is not good.
Hope her GI tract finds peace soon.
Ashley
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Hi Ashley, thanks for the tips and advice, much appreciated. I have stopped the dried fruit for the mo as it just goes through her.
Good news is, on the dairy and soy free diet, the stools are beginning to firm up nicely, looking more normal :) Still has bits of undigested food in at times, but so much better :) :)
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Stools are doing good now, back to normal hurrah!
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Thats good to hear!! ;D 8)
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Great news Emma x
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I am so glad. It is hard sometimes, but diet changes are better than piles of meds!!! Thomas also thrives on the TED and seems to care less. I am keeping it forever!
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:) SO GLAD!!!!!
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So does rice milk contain different proteins than cow's and goats? I guess what I mean is, is it better in regards to a possible milk/soy protein intolerance?
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Oh yes. It bascially is hypoallergenic. The chance of being allergic or intolerant to rice is very rare.
Rice milk does not contain much fat at all.
We had great success with my MSPI son and rice milk.
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Do you find when the milk has less fat they are hungry more often? I seem to be finding that with my son on goat's milk, but I wasn't sure if that was just a growth spurt. He was up 3 times to eat 7 oz at each time. Once at 1am, 2am, and 5:30am. I find during the day too he seems to be eating a lot more milk than he did on formula.
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I would say that is probably true. They say that typical formulas designed for babies have 30 calories per ouce. I a m not sure on the fat content. Hold on, I am going to the fridge ... The fortified rice dream only has 15 calories per ounce. That would surely make a difference don't you think? Also the rice dream only has 2.5 g fat per 8 oz serving.
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I would think it makes a difference. While on formula he ate probably half of what he eats now during the night. Is there anyway to fortify the milk with fat or something to feed him during the day which would help?
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I know that Wendy has recommended coconut milk for older kids. Wendy what do you think about that for Hudson?
You can always add more calories to other things too - add sugar (not so healthy but easy) or olive oil to foods he already eats. High calorie good foods like avacado. Maybe more protein or filling foods like oatmeal and rice would help. I know when Thomas was small they told me that he was eating about 1/2 the amount he should be and that is why he was up so much at night (not exactly true, He was MSPI and they had no clue, but when I did fill him more during the day at meals, he did rest some better.) At least he did not wake up with his stomach growling from hunger.
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Yeah, I'm going to try some new things in regards to food this week. Hopefully it'll work. I wish they made avocado puree.
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Why don't we start a new topic and title it Rice milk and ways to increase fat.
Maybe others can chime in and really give a lot of suggestions.
Here is the link to the thread:
www.index.php?topic=127677.msg1364499#msg1364499
Wendy