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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: skatty on July 23, 2008, 10:25:59 am
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The last week we have had nap hell with Leorah, 2 days of no naps and others of 2 hrs to sleep :P She is sleeping fantastically at night, around 14 hours so I presumed she needed a longer A time and less night sleep but now realise she was going so far into OT that she couldn't sleep. Today we decided to cut right back and put her down at 4 hours so she would have a chance to winddown without getting OT but by 3½ hours she started getting ratty and squealy so we quickly changed her nappy etc and got her down and she finally took a nap but it took 40 mins for her to sleep still ::) She has had some trouble with her molars but night sleep is unaffected or maybe even better and she has fluid in her ears which I know is causing her discomfort so could that be the reason for the short A time? I just can't work it out at all, I mean she is almost 22 months and only had a max A time of 4hrs 45 but under 4 just seems ridiculous! The wierd thing is that she can now manage more A time after her nap than before, it was always the other way around. Of all the threads on the sleep boards I have never come accross this before. I have tried meds before the nap and it makes no difference and she isn't waking at night so she can't be in that much pain ??? The only thing that makes me think it's her ears is that she fell asleep the other day and woke after 7 mins screaming and when I went to investigate she had her heands over her ears, also she often shakes her head like crazy when she is trying to get to sleep in the day. The shortening of the A times started at the end of May, her molars bumped up, then she got a cold with blocked sinuses, this has lead to the ear problems and here we are this last week with nap problems. Since May she was going down for her nap after 4hr15 mins and would windown for up to half an hour so when it turned into 2 hours to sleep I presumed her A time needed increasing again. We are going to a doc on Friday who does some alternative treatment to drain the ears so hopefully they will be clear soon but is this the reason for these short A times? The fluid in her ear will have been there since the cold back in May. Please help if you can I am so confused and worried :(
Oh and also today I set my alarm early and went and sat in her room to see if she was waking early and not making a sound. At 7 she sighed and took hold of her lovey and turned and went back to sleep for another 40 mins, she was definitely asleep as I was shining my phone in her face so that isn't the problem.
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Hi there Katt,
I'm sorry you're having these nap problems and that Leorah is still in pain with her ears and teething. I don't know if I have any great advice to give, but I thought I'd send you some hugs and supportive encouragement as I know how hard it is when they go through periods like this. So {{{hugs!}}}
My fist thought was that paerhaps her ear fluid is making her teething sympthoms worse and/or the other way round. But as you say her night sleep is unaffected I'm not sure ??? She is having A LOT of nighttime sleep, 14 hrs is more than Lois has in 24 hrs. She sleeps like 10.5 hrs at night plus 1.5-2 (on occasion 2.5) in the pm. Just shows how different their needs can be eh. Well, I've noticed that Lois gets a shorter A time tolerance when unwell for definite.
You don't think she could be getting close to trying to drop the nap do you? Cos of getting so much night sleep? I know you said she seems OT though and it would be too early for that. I'm just kind of thinking out 'loud' now to try and figure it out... :-\ I can see that you must be frustrated and worried.
It's hard knowing if it's to do with her ears or not so I hope that doctor can help her.
After 14 hrs of sleep it does sound a bit odd that she can only handle a 4 hr A time, so I don't know hun... I hope someone will come along and give better advice! It sounds like she's either OT or UT. I don't know any toddler her age that sleeps 14 hrs at night and I think 12-14 hrs in 24 is average, so I still lean towards guessing she's UT but unwell ???
Sorry I have no better advice babe, but I'm thinking of you and hoping it gets better soon!
xxxxxxxxxxxxx:-*
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Hi Vicku and thanks for the reply, your thoughts are exactly the same thoughts as I had but she is definitely getting OT for the nap and today proved it as we had her down much earlier and she slept for 1hr15 and woke up miserable so I am sure she is unwell in some way, I just can't work out what way, teething, ears ??? I know she gets a ridiculous amount of sleep but she has been like that since 1 nap, I swear she is still catching up from the lack of sleep in her first year!! Before this she would do a 13 hour night and a 1hr20/30 min nap most days. As you know she is also very energetic so she seems to go at life full throttle and then need some time to recuperate, unfortunately that window is very small. I am ever expectant of her dropping her sleep needs but as of yet it is not happening, maybe when she has all her teeth and her ears are clear? I thought she was getting ready to drop the nap all week but it was DH who pointed out how fussy she is getting every morning before her nap so that's why we thought we'd try the early nap and it worked although we still got her down a bit too late ::) I can't believe the first day she skipped her nap I was happy because I thought we were at the stage when the odd day of no nap wouldn't effect her but it was followed the next day with wired behaviour when put down for her nap so we went out in the car and got a nap there and the next day DH ended up taking her out for a walk and she woke up thoroughly miserable at 35 mins :P My plan was to try and push bedtime later so she is more tired for the nap the next day but now I realise this isn't the problem, she didn't even want stories tonight just wanted to go to bed at 6pm, if she has less overnight sleep at the mo' it will hardly be worth getting her out of the cot in the morning!! I wonder if the doc will be any help on Friday, whenever I have bought up her huge sleep needs to our doc she just tells us to count our blessings and points out that she is tired just watching her lol! She has had increased sleep when she is ill or teething before but at those times we have known what was wrong and she has needed pain relief so I am so puzzled, perhaps a molar will break through and explain everything, I just hope there isn't another bug lurking :P I am sure there must be someone out there whose LO has had the same but I have never read about it., the only other real difference in her is that she is suddenly very well behaved! She is holding our hands more when out walking and staying calm in shops, can sit and play quietly with her crayons and basically shocking us with the change! I have wondered if it is developemental as I have seen with my friends kids they seem to suddenly have a huge developement spurt when they are around 2, I suppose she could also be having a growth spurt, I'm thinking aloud now! That is a good point they sleep much more then don't they and she is eating really well at the mo', she has grown a lot recently anyway though so maybe not ???
Crikey I am sorry waffling on, I think I will just go with the early nap and see what happens, if it works great, if not I will have to change something! Hopefully the treatment she will start on Friday will help.
Thanks Vicku, I didn't expect any magical answers but it is nice to have some support :-*
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Aaargh! Leorah woke up screaming her head off around 2am last night, it must be her ears which I hear can cause this or she had a bad dream which can happen when she is OT, I am guessing ears because she woke this morning witha sharp scream, roll on the docs tomorrow :P Up at 7.20 am , I am going to try and put her down for her nap at 11am and see what happens!
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Oh Katt, I'm sending you tons of (((hugs)))... it does sound like Leorah is not well. Was she up for long at 2am? I don't know how to advise you, but early bedtimes tend to help us if it's OT.
Thinking of you-
Leslie
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Thanks Leslie, I have nothing to complain about compared to you but thanks for the hugs :-* I am pretty sure it's her ears now because she has been covering them all day, she was asleep by 4hrs20 today so at least we finally realised she's OT not UT, I agree early bedtimes all the way! I am nervous about tomorrow as we have a docs appointment at 9.30 which is a 50 min drive each way and I have no idea about L's A times at the mo', usually if she was spending that long in the car I'd extend the time but I have no idea what to do at the moment, I feel completely clueless :P
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Katt- just checking in to see how Leorah's doctor appointment went. I'm thinking about you girls-
L.
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{{HUGS}}} Katt. Hope L is feeling better-I'm fighting my own naps monsters at the moment so know how you feel :-* :-* :-*
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Thank for asking Leslie, you are sweet! It's unbelievable Leorah has no fluid in the ear anymore, we had 4 days of sun and they dried out, yipee! We could hardly believe it but the morning we went I said her name in a normal voice while she was busy playing and she turned around to me straight away and DH and I both said "she can hear!" at the same time so it happened so suddenly! This doesn't explain the bad naps and 2 nights of screaming in the early hours though :-\ The doc said her body could be fighting something. Yesterday she was biting a lot of the day and she is eating nothing so it could be down to teeth, her A times do usually shorten but I don't remember them being this short. Yesterday we got Leorah down at 4hrs20 which is later than intended but she had spent almost 2 hours in the car and it was too late, she was completely wired and DH had to take her out walking and she once again slept less than an hour :P I gave her ibuprofen before bed last night and did hear her cry and resettle herself around 3am and then she was awake at 6.50am so an improvement but still not great, today I will get her down for her nap very erly and hope for the best!
Elmarie, how are you? What kind of troubles are you having? How is Courteney? She must be so grown up now :D
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Hey Katt,
I'e not been on here since I last wrote. Been really hot weather so been out with DD and DH to an animal park and yesterday to the beach. Are you also having hot weather in Denmark?
I'm really pleased the fluid in her ear has cleared! She must have worked hard to hear things and maybe that also has contributed to her OT? It has been going on for a while so... It sounds like she's in pain from something at night and the molars are quite possible as you said they were on their way. Also if she needs more sleep when ill/teething then together with having gone through the ears thing it's not so strange if she's OT bless her. I would go with trying to get as much sleep in as possible for a while and early nap and early bed, as you said. At least these are the last sets of teeth eh... Lois hasn't started teething molars yet and I'm dreading it already :-\
I really hope there's nothing else going on but as the doc said she might be fighting something like a cold or something. Time will tell... Stay strong and patient hun. Maybe as much 'quiet time' as possible will help her recover, she likes books right? Also a bit extra DVD watching might not be so bad... gives her little body some rest at least.
Huge hugs to you both!!!!!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Hi Vicku, yes we are also having fantastic weather, that's why her ears dried up so suddenly, I am so happy :D Well I think I have finally worked out what has lead to the OT and that is a complete lack of predictibility in L's routine and OS!! I am sure the ears and the teething are not helping but Martin has been home for 4 weeks and we have literally been out and about everyday, even L's morning walk in the pushchair has turned into a walk in the forest on foot and then there has been the amusement park, beach, petting zoo etc. The fact that she has a wail of a time means it skipped my notice that it has all been too much but it also explains why she is so clingy to me at times at the mo', I think she misses our old easy going days. I can't believe I am saying it but I think it will be good for Martin to get back to work so we can get in a normal routine again, even our poor dog is out of sorts as she was used to our walks when L wakes up but quite often we have been off in the car for a action packed afternoon! Today I had L down at just before 4 hours and she was asleep after 35 mins for 1hr15 but woke very tired, I am going to try and give her a few quieter days now as my mum and brother come on Wednesday and visitors always cause excitement! It makes so much sense now, I could kick myself, some BW I am eh? lol! We have just had a few hours in the garden with the paddling pool and now she is watching a dvd and she is so happy and so am I as I am on here with a cup of coffee ;D
Hugs to you and Lois :-*
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Hi Katt, glad to hear that L is feeling better. We are doing very well. C is starting to drop her nap (way to early) but are trying to cope with it. At least it is not effecting her night sleep ;D
Speak to you soon :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Oh no Elmarie, that is early :o I must admit it wouldn't bother me too much as long as L stayed and it didn't effect her night sleep but recent times have shown she can't handle it at all :P At least they can just have quiet time when they drop, will C have quiet time?
Big hugs from me and L xx
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Oh yes, even is she drops the nap now I will leave her in her cot everyday for quite time. She naps yesterday (2nd time this week), so I will offer the nap even if she doesn't nap for a lon time to come. :-* :-*
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OMG I just want to scream, L woke at 6.25am this morning after crying out NW's from bedtime until 10pm when we gave her meds. I decided I wouldn't put her down until 11am which sounds reasonable doesn't it but by quarter to she was so tired I changed her nappy and put her outside and guess what? Too late and she was acting wired for over an hour so DH has taken her out walking again :P I have looked at her naps for the last 10 days and if I put her down 3.35 mins and 3.50 mins awake time she settles within 40 mins and takes a 1hr15 nap any later and we have had either no nap or an extremely short nap (7 mins, 35 mins ::))after taking up to 2 hrs to sleep! What is going on?? She seems to be OT but this is crazy! Tomorrow we are going to DH's nan's for the day and it is usually hard getting her to sleep there so I am wondering if I should not bother putting her down and just hope she will sleep on the way home and then get a really early night and hope she does one of her 14 hour stunners. I have family coming over on Wednesday for 4 days and I just can't take L having such bad sleep when we have people here :(
What is going on with these crazy A times? Her NWs suggest teething but she doesn't seem to be especially bitey etc when awake, can the molars really effect naps that much? She only ever seems to have Ews when she is teething so I am kind of hoping it is just down to teeth and we can get back on track eventually :P
Elmarie I am glad C will nap some days, I have read around 2 some Lo's start dropping their nap and then start taking them again so I hope that happens for you, at least she can handle it, if L could handle it I would go with the flow but as usual she has ended up in a mess! I guess I can't complain as this is the first major blip in 10 months since transitioning to 1 nap. I have to watch those evening A times too, she woke from her nap so early yesterday that I stretched her to 5 hours which isn't a good idea when she is OT, she could well be in bed before 5pm tonight ::)
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Hi Katt hun,
Well done for figuring out the OS and DH at home changing the routine. That's happened here too and Lois is getting a bit OT the last few days and have had some EW and short naps too :-\ Reading this just made me realise it might be a good idea slowing things down a bit, but it's so nice to be getting out together... makes it hard.
Lois had a bout of serious accumulated chronic OT during her 2-1 nap switch. Went on from christmas time (when she also had an ear infection) til mid April time. OT did cause NW like the ones you describe, crying out, so it might be that...
These spirited ones are more sensitive to routine changes and OS too aren't they.
Thinking of you and hoping she'll recover from whatever's bothering her and life will be back to normal for you. Let me know how you get on babe!
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Katt- I wonder if when Leorah is OT and you've already missed the window if it's worth it to put her down even later, on the theory she needs to get past the OT into a deep sleep? Or maybe try a short 20 min catnap around 3.5-4 hours post wake up, and then a long (hopefully) nap about 2 hours later?
M doesn't sleep well out, so maybe you could take a walk around nap time while at your Nan's?
I hope things improve soon ;)
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Hello girls, we tried for the nap way too late today and ....no nap :o It does seem like she is teething again, she has only eaten and ice lolly and a couple of grapes today but will gulp milk down like there is no tomorrow, she has a white bump on one of her back molars and is chewing on that side but she doesn't seem to be in any pain apart from at night so could it really be a contributor ??? Leslie you are so right that when we miss her window we should put her later but when??? We have already decided we can't go back to 3½ hour A times so need to wait for the next window but have absolutely no idea when this will be, I kept my eye on her all afternoon tried to feed her tea at 4pm for a bedtime of 5 and she took Martin by the hand and lead him to the bath! She does this when she is tired and wants to get on with the night routine. Whenever she has teethed previously her A times have shortened to around 4 hours but to be OT for less than 4 hours is ridiculous! Does the nap window shorten when OT, it seems if we blink we miss it at the mo' :P I wouldn't mind if it wasn't effecting her fabulous night sleep but it is and it is getting worse as each day goes by for the last 10 days.
Tomorrow I have decided that if L sleeps until after 7 am we will go to nan's early and leave after 6 hours of A time as it takes over an hour to get home, if she wakes early I will try for a nap after 3½ hours knowing she will play me up but at least she will be sitting though now we have the great pleasure of her being able to get out of the straps of her pushchair and stand up and climb out ::) A walk wont work as it will be way too interesting being in a new place, to much to see, YKWIM!
Vicku I am glad you are catching the OS and OT in the early stages, hopefully you can nip it in the bud. We have wondered how much her new hearing is effecting her, she is so chatty at the mo' and repeating a lot and having new words and just seems to be having a developemental leap in her understanding, probably because she can hear now. I do have this awful feeling it could be the independance, not sure that will pass so I hope not :-[ Reading past posts it seems a prime age for nap resistance and no nap days, it just seems unlikely that she would go from a 4½ hour A time and shorter and shorter and then drop the nap as well as have EWs and Nws. You are right about spirited LOs being sensitive to routine changes and OS, I used to be so careful but as she got more able to handle different stuff I have become sloppy and now she is suffering and so am I! I am wondering whether wearing her out to exhaustion but be ready to put her down at a moments notice will help as last Saturday she went out with her grandad and great nan and they came to meet me and she was exhausted at 3½ hours and nearly fell asleep in my arms but I took her home and fed her a snack before I put her down and she had a second wind and took 2 hours to drop off, I am not sure she gives any tired signs until too late at the mo.
Sorry for the long moean, it is good to have people to bounce ideas off though, thanks for the support and any more ideas greatly welcomed ;D :-*
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Oh No Katt... one other thought is that though she's showing tired signs early, when you put her down its too early and then she gets OT, which is why it takes soooo long for her to fall asleep. What were her A times before this past week? I'd go with what they were for a few days, along with early bedtimes, and see if that gets the train back on the track.
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Since the end of May since her molars bumped up and she got sick I have been putting her down at around 4hrs15 (15-30 mins early) then one day bam she is OT by then ::) I already had that same thought but the later I put her down the longer she takes to get to sleep, the shortest time she has taken in the last 10 days is 35 mins after putting her at 3hrs50 that is the shortest A time I tried and the most successful (yesterday), she hadn't shown any tired signs really, it seems when she shows tired signs it is too late. :P I also put her down after 5 hours the other day and it took her 2 hours to sleep and that was on a walk in the end and she slept 33 minutes! The wierd thing is she seems to do better with no nap at all than with a short nap :-\ She was asleep just before 5pm tonight, cried her eyes out when DH left the room which she always does when OT so he stayed with her and she was fast asleep in about 2 minutes! It is nearly 9.30pm and I haven't heard a sound yet though she will often cry out between 3 and 4 hours after going to sleep when OT, I gave her meds tonight so we'll see what happens. I have been reading on the net elsewhere about toddlers not napping and it is much more common with non BWs! One message was interesting, somones LO had their ears drained and then their sleep went off track and she wondered if it was because of the extra stimulation hearing but noone answered her. Apart from not napping L hasn't shown any of the common signs of dropping so we may just wait it out and see. I am glad I log her sleep because I can see the troubles began the last week of May when her molars started bumping up, almost the same thing happened then but it was more obvious so I nipped it in the bud, we had EWs and OT naps after too long A time. I don't think I'll ever moan about a short nap again lol!
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I hope things will settle soon hun! What I did in the end when Lois was badly OT was I decided on a TIME for the nap and stuck with it. I had tried juggling the A times and nothing seemed to get better and in the end I felt the inconsistency just made her more confused along myself. We had lots of EW though and early nap and so early bed just resulted in more EW's. It took a wbile, about a week, but then she started setting her body clock to that nap time and things got better. Don't know if that's a good idea for you now though as she seems to do worse if A time gets long ???
The other thing we did/do if she's OT or unwell is we do the odd '2-nap day' where we put her down about 9:30 (2.5-3 hrs A time) and let her have a nap then and then again about 1 or 2 depending on how long she slept. That has helped her catch up on sleep and 'reset' bedtime and so EW. Just giving you some ideas and sharing what we've done/do, so just take what might be useful and leave the rest ;)
Also, have you tried doing the nap in her bed instead of the pram? any difference? the same? I remember someone else (on another thread I think) asked that too and said it might be too stimulating/interesting for her in there ???
Lois just popped another tooth (lower canine) so might explain some of her trouble last few days :-\
Hugs to you 2 from us 2!!!
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I'd second the going by clock time rather than A times- it's too darn difficult to figure out with A times. M has finally for almost the last week napped for at least 1 hour each day, and we've been going by clock times (anti jinx here).
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Girls I just want to give you both a massive hug for being there for us at the mo' things have gone from bad to terrible :'( 10m mins after I posted last night Leorah woke up and didn't get back to sleep for 3 hours :o That was after midnight and she was awake at 7.15am! We had to go to Martin's nans and she almost fell asleep in the car but I kept her awake as I was scared she wouldn't take another nap later but then she wouldn't nap there either! I actually saw her pass over from relaxed to wired and I swear it was a window of a couple of minutes at around 3hrs A time, she was then wired but I decided to try for an early nap and it was no go, she finally melted down into a huge tantrum, she couldn't control it and I sat with her stroking her leg and she finally closed her eyes and jolted awake after a minute and that was it no more hope ::) We decided to go home early so she'd sleep in the car but it was so hot and she moaned and moaned and even though the back windows are blacked out the sun kept getting in her eyes but finally it moved and after nearly an hour she fell into a very jumpy sleep for just under 40 mins. I told DH to keep driving even though the petrol is expensive but it only worked out about £5 so it was worth every penny to me!
I am so tempted to pick a time and stick with it but what time? If it is not in the right window it will be no nap! If I catch her early when she is tired then she will still have a huge A time before bed but maybe that is better than nothing? My other idea is to let her pass through the second wind and try and get her down after that peaks, what do you think? Unfortunately there is no way she will sleep in her cot, that is purely for night sleep for her, I have tried in the past! I may try for the 2 nap day tomorrow but if i get her sleeping I don't think I can bring myself to wake her so may just go for a boring afternoon and early bed. She has lost so much sleep now that she is finding it hard to drop off and when she does she can't stay asleep :P I don't know how things got so bad so fast, her A times are so sensitive I should have been more careful but I hear about other Lo's her age doing well on much more A time and less sleep and think she can handle more.
Vicku I would definitely say that things have been off track because of the canine, they cause problems for everyone! M's nan thinks L is teething because she wont eat and when she cries she bites her hands but she is always teething and things have never got this bad before. Last night after about 2½ hours we gave her medicine so I don't know if it helped or she had just exhausted herself ??? If she wakes tonight we will give her medicine straight away but I am sure when she first woke it was OT, when she wakes teething she has a sad cry, last night she started off with a moan and then talking, we stupidly stayed in her room because she was upset but if it happens tonight it will be WIWO, I think company prolongs the wakings KWIM? I know it sounds awful but when L is OT I think she sometimes needs to get upset to let off steam so she can sleep. I am so out of my depth here, I normally catch her OT nowadays, we haven't had any long Nws like this for about a year! Early bed normally catches her up but after not napping her body is obviously too stimulated to stay asleep ::)
Again thanks for your help, please send vibes to us for a good night and I have sent some to you! Touch wood that as of yet she is settling very well at bedtime, I am just praying she can stay asleep.
I hope you have both had a good day, Katt x
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Hi Katt,
Since you have been so helpful to me, I just wanted to extend some (((HUGS))) your way.
I too think that just picking a time and sticking to it for a nap, may at this point be your best bet. Perhaps her internal clock is so out of whack that her body does not know when to be awake and when to be asleep thus the no naps and NWs.
Now, from what I remember she sleeps about 15 hours or more in 24, right?Could you just pick a time 5 hours after her usual waking or a bit early to compensate for EWs sometimes and stick to it for a week, moving bedtime up by 30-60 mins if she short naps?
I am not really one that should be giving advice, as my DS is totally OT right now, but I picked 11:30 and am going to give it a week no matter what. I have moved bedtime up 1 hour and 15 mins from his 2nap a day bedtime, most days a full hour as he just naps his normal am nap time and never more. He has never consolidated his 2 naps and we have been going through this since 12 months!
Anyway, enough rambling. I say go for the gusto and pick a time. What's worse than no nap days anyway, right?
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Thanks Jcs mom, I am tempted to do what you say but I tried 5 hrs A time and that was my first no nap day and it all spiralled from there! I am not sure where to go from here but was considering seeing how the night goes and then study her intently tomorrow to see what her clues are that she is about to go into overdrive! I also have to remember that her sleep needs are like a much younger LO so I have to stop comparing and maybe just go with the clues she gives me. In the last 24 hours alone she has a deficit of about 5 hours so it is not surprising she is so wired all day, as she is such a good sleeper normally I can really see that tantrums are linked in a major way to lack of sleep! I am definitely going to fight this and get her back on track but I have a feeling this wont happen until next week as my mum and brother are coming to stay. Dh is back at work next week so I hope I can get some consistancy back in her life :P I think my biggest problem now is dealing with the fact that she is finding it almost impossible to unwind, she is in a constant state of hyperactivity :-\
I do feel bad for you having troubles all these months. My DD was a terrible napper her whole first year so transitioning to 1 nap was the best thing we ever did, all her previous OT spells have been fixed quickly with short A times and early bed but I totally missed it this time and it is lie she is 9 months old again but worse because she is louder and more mobile! I do hope you get onto a good thing soon, (((hugs))) Katt :)
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This must be so confusing and frustrating for you Katt :( I think you're right that you need to go with HER and what you know she needs and is like and not compare with other LOs her age too much. If she's always needed more than average sleep, like mine's always had less, then that's probably just what she's like. Go with your instincts! And obviously if she needs more sleep, her A times will be shorter.
One thing that helped me with Lois' naps was when I igured out that she could handle a longer a time in the am than in the pm. Some LOs are the opposite and needs a shorter am A and can handle longer pm A, and some seem to thrive on equal length A times. So maybe if you have a think and watch her cues like you said, you can figure that out? Maybe you already know?
If you know this it's easier to set a time for the nap that then can be altered slightly with varying circumstances day to day.
As I'm reading RYSC now I thought about suggesting doing more of the 'soothing activities' stated in there to help her unwind if they work.
Hope you mum and brother's stay will be nice and not make things worse sleep wise for her. I'm very happy to be able to give you support and be here for you as I know how difficult these times are. I'm here to vent to and I'll send some big sleep vibes your way!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Oh Katt honey- massive hugs and sleep vibes your way :-*
Could you try the short catnap in the stroller and then a longer pm nap about 2 hours later?
I hope you get a good loooonnnggg night!
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Thank you for the sleep vibes they worked ;D ;D ;D Leorah was in bed at 5.15pm, definitely asleep within 20 mins, had a brief waking at 4am where Martin gave her a medicine top up, he left after 5 mins as she settled straight away, after another 5 mins she must have realised he wasn't there and cried out halfheartedly and went back to sleep until 7.15am ;D She is playing in her cot now and dare I say she sounds a bit wired already :o When she wakes OT she is very loud as soon as she wakes up and she is in there squealing! I am going to play it by ear this morning, I am pretty convinced teething is a part of the equation now, meds seem to be helping a lot, I also sprinkled lavender oil on her sheets, this has worked in th epast to help calm her down so now I need to work out how I can do it for her nap, sprinkle her pushchair?
Vicku, L also normally can handlle more A time before her nap but at the mo' it seems both A times are very sensitive, I know I am mad but I would even accept a short nap now rather than no nap at all. As she had a good night Leslie I am going to leave the catnap, it is too risky that she wont go for a second nap!
Thank you girls :-*
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Well today has been interesting! Tantrums from wake up about everything, not wanting her shoes on, not wanting to be in the pushchair, then not wanting to walk and have me carry her etc etc. She is really teething today, biting, stinky nappies, runny nose etc so that may well have a big part to play in all this. We had a very low key morning, at 3hrs she was sitting very relaxed on my lap watching a dvd and then she got some energy again but not wired but I still decided to put her down at 4hrs. She played for a while as usual but was happy and then she settled and I really thought she'd sleep as she had nurofen earlier in the morning and it is supposed to last 6-8 hours ::) but NO!! It is like she can only sleep if she is motion! I took her out walking and within 2 minutes she was sitting quietly with her eyes shut and by 10 mins she was out but at exactly 30 mins she woke, I don't know if it was because she was OT or because a c o c k erel crowed >:( Anyway she was so miserable and crying her eyes out so I kept walking and she laid with her eyes closed for another 20 mins but didn't sleep. Her teething is terrible, when I went to give her the dummy back she dropped on the floor she took my hands and pressed them to her jaw and the whole time she was out in her pushchair walking she just held her jaw moaning. Lucky for me a new Teletubbies dvd I ordered had arrived when we got back and she is now as happy as Larry!
I guess we are going to have to ride this out, I'll see what happens tonight and for now I am playing each day by ear until I can work out some consistancy, right now I am just praying for these teeth to break through :P
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Crikey Katt, sorry I missed all this honey, you've been through the ringer here with L sleep.
For what its worth I think there are a whole bunch of things happening here that have contributed, teething L always teeths badly, regaining her hearing and all the stimulation that brings, having DH home for so long and your general activity levels having been increased probably trickled in some OT. And not least skipping a nap. I know L loves her sleep, but she is still developmetally at the age where nap skipping can occurr so maybe adding this to the pot really won't be helping.
My advice would also of been to pick a nap time worked on a slightly less A time than she was doing prior to all this and a bedtime based loosly on her 'normal' nap time length + A time and only adjusted this if you had seriously short nap or no nap. Not sure that would of been any use to you as L seems to have her own sleep rule book ;-) but I have to agree that when they get all messed up and A times have been all over the place then restting their clock is sometimes the only way forward, even if that results in things getting a whole lot worse for a few days before they get better. I don't know L at all (well only a little :-) ) but as they get older most peope find you can't go by sleep cues at all, they get too vague and can be misleading.
And I know L is definitly OT at present, but to add to the nap skipping which as you know Lily did her fair share of, taking 35-40mins to get to sleep and then taking a short OT nap is also something which happens when their A times need to be extended. When Lily did this consistantly for a few weeks I upped her nap from 12 to 12.30pm and suddenly she started going to sleep withing 5mins again. When she went down too early she played past the time she should of gone to sleep then finally would take an OT nap as a result. So in essence when they need longer A times but can't happily make that transition themselves they can then get OT from actually taking poor naps and bedtime struggles, making it seem like less A time is needed when actually its the opposite. Does that make sence?
Well they are my thoughts for what there worth ;-)
Hugs honey
Nik x
Just read your post, speedy teething vibes sent L's way *********
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Nik, thanks so much, I literally just remembered that you went through this with Lily and was going to email! There is no A time in L's world at the mo' so as we have my mum and brother coming tomorrow I reckon a set nap time may as well start tomorrow, I'm thinking 12 as that seems to be a common nap time, all the kids in daycare where I live nap from 12 until 2, I know I wont get 2 hrs but any nap will be nice! You are right she does have her own rule book and I am sure she worries she'll miss out on something but she biologically cannot go without at least a small nap without it immediately making her OT ::)
Thanks for the teething vibes, how is Lily's teething, better than Leorah's I hope! Thanks again Nik :-*
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Nik I just have to thank you again, what you said about some Lo's not being able to make the transition to a longer A time on their own makes so much sense! We will all be a lot happier with a longer A time finally and I am not too worried about short naps as long as she naps at all because she will make the lost time at night as long as OT hasn't accumulated. Too bad my mum and brother are coming tomorrow but at least they are family and adore her no matter what!
Thank you again and thank you to everyone that has been supporting us , it feels good to have a plan :-*
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Glad you've got a plan and very pleased to help :-)
got fingers crossed for you x
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Thanks, I am trying to write A c c u m u l a t e d but my comp wont let me and writes acmessalated! Wierd!!
OMG that is so strange, it does it every time, my spelling is bad but I don't usually make up new words!!
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Ok we had a NW from bedore midnight until sometime after 2am!! L was then up screaming at 5.37am precisely :o It is now 06.24 and I still hear her every now and then :P I fear my good sleeper is gone forever, she is now severely OT and I don't see how we will come out of it because as usual when OT she can't stay asleep :( If I push until 12 is it likely she will drop off or will she just be wired and uber awake? I already know any nap will be full of jolts because that's what she does when OT like this. I can't believe this is the same girl that can put in 14 hour nights and I have to wake in the mornings, sleep begets sleep must have been coined for her and the less sleep she gets the less she can sleep KWIM? I honestly can't see any light in this situation and to make matters worse she gets terrible SA when OT which will be upsetting for my mum who hardly sees her anyway :(
Well I am going for the 12 nap anyway as we have reached the point where I don't see how things can get much worst and a corner has to be turned doesn't it? Nik have you any more detalis about what happened with Lily to keep me going?
Thanks from a very wired, OT Katt >:(
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Crikey, I really need someone to tell me this is going to end! I got Leorah up at 7.30am by 8.30 she was crying so hard and so hysterically that DH took her for a walk thinking she'd crash and he'd let her sleep 20 mins max, she didn't and screamed the whole walk which was half an hour. When she got home I calmed her down and she has been having non stop tantrums and is falling over ::) It is 10.45am and I am still planning to put her down at 12 but she is so wired I can't see her sleeping :o She is outside playing with her great gran at the mo'. I am feeling so bad for her, I have also been in tears this morning, not surprising as I also have severe insomnia now and only had 2½ hours sleep last night myself, I just don't know how to help her :'( Will she eventually just crash? Once I get her back on her routine I am not messing her about ever again, I knew she was sensitive but this is ridiculous!!
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It's me again....SHE'S NAPPING :o ;D ;D ;D
At 11.45 we changed her nappy and for the first time since I can remember there was no resistance so decided to put her down, we had one minute of protest and she calmed down, kept hold of her dummies and lovey and was asleep by 11.57 ;D She is having a very twitchy nap and I am ready to run and resettle! We just passed 30 mins with a big jolt but she didn't wake :D I think she may well be at that pushed point, I hope the only way is up now, I can't describe the relief I am feeling that she can still fall asleep in her pushchair without help. I can't thank you all enough and Nik what you described yesterday is exactly where we were at, I now have dreams of a long nap and normal bedtime for the future! Normal in this house has been 5.30/6pm for at least a year!
OMG our neighbours just pulled up which started their dog off barking right around the 40 min mark, L opened her eyes for about 10 secs, repositioned and went B2S, they did W2S for me, they are lucky because if it had gone wrong I would have been mad >:( Hopefully she is set for another full cycle now! I'll update :-*
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Oh Katt- what a night/morning! I'm so glad L is now sleeping and here's hoping it's a nice long nap and you'll be back on somewhat of a track.
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Yay! Sounds like you may be on to something. Fingers crossed that you had a good, long nap.
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Well she woke from the nap after about 55 mins but this is the best nap she has had on ages, she fell asleep in a reasonable time, wasn't driven or pushed and woke slowly stretching and sat in her pushchair for 5 mins chilling out. She is much happier this afternoon but very, very tired so we are putting her to bed at 5pm and hope she can stay asleep tonight and not have a long NW, yesterday alone has made her short on at least 5 hours sleep :o My mum and bruv arrive while she is asleep so that will be an exciting morning tomorrow especially as they will be laden with gifts ::) I am just praying for a good night to help things along!
Thank you for your support while you are having troubles of your own Leslie and Jcsmom :-*
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Katt, I was out all day yesterday so sorry I've not been able to help.
Lois is the same that the more sleep she gets the better she sleeps and of course opposite. Gets OT and OS very easy. We were in the same place as you are now and Lois was severely OT and we had NW, EW and nap problems for what felt like aaages BUT now she sleeps great again, so remember this doesn't have to last forever and she is likely to be back to sleeping well as soon as this teething is over and she's recovered from the OT (which can take a while, but WILL happen)
What Nik said about the A times and them not being able to extend *by themselves* was so true for us. With Lois, it was only when I pushed her A time to set a nap time that she started to sleep better. By then I thought I was pushing way too late as she seemed tired earlier, but it worked although it took a week or so and then settled in over a few weeks time to a good nap. As I said early on in this thread it was my gut feeling that she needed longer A time, but I totally forgot about me having to push Lois' and that it didn't happen on its own. Yay for you Nik, and hope this will help Leorah too.
Hope tonight goes well! Remember that if she's teething really bad you can give both Ibuprofen AND paracetamol when one doesn't help enough for them to sleep well. It's not bad for them short term, and if it can help sleep then it helps overall as OT from lack of sleep isn't helpful at all.
Poor Leorah! It must be so painful getting molars. I'm still struggling with stubborn wisdom teeth that have taken years to come through and I can really sympathise with the LOs. I'm NOT looking forward to Lois getting her 2nd molars as the forst were so bad :-\ I'll be crying out to all of you to keep me sane when the time comes LOL
One more thing I though about from RYSC is that spirited children can sometimes be more sensitive to things like teething, getting OT, OS etc and so making this whole process a lot harder for kids and parents.
Vibes for Leorah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
{{{{{{{{hugs and strength}}}}}}}}} for you :-*
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Well done L giving mummy a somewhat nervous and anxious 55mins but at least she slept and you got a break too.
Not sure what to advise really Katt. I do think setting times will help her regroup on the sleep front. I can't really remember what it was like when Lily did the nap dropping A time pushing stuff (I think I block it out once its done :P ) but what I did find was on a dropped nap day it was early to bed by missing nap or as close as I could get it. Nap 30mins early next day would normally give us a better nap than normal bringing us back to normal nap end time then normal bedtime. This generally used to get us back on track, although maybe at first it was taking 2 days of this before she was back to old routine.
When it came to Lily wanting to extend her A time and me not responding she was frequently playing in cot for upto an hour before sparking out and then taking a short nap, simply by putting her down 30mins later she started going back to sleep within 5-10mins.
The thing with Lily is that I never really do mess with A times to compensate for ews or bad naps etc (I used to try but it always backfores so now I don't bother). Now when she skips a nap its usually me that instigated it I try to get her down 30mins early for bed but still the next day its nap & bedtime as normal and she just seems to come round from sleep loss within a few days 3 at most, normally her sleep is back to normal after 1 day, its just her mood which shows she is still tired.
Heres hoping she falls asleep OK tonight (I've put an order in for you ;) )
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Hi Vicku and Nik, I am feeling much better even though we haven't had a great nap, I was starting to worry that she was starting to associate the pushchair with trauma! The teething is still quite bad today but it is secondary to the OT so I forgot to medicate her before her nap which may not have helped. I have before given ibuprofen and paracetomel and it really makes a difference but I worry about how long she teeths so don't do it often, I have given her ibuprofen in her juice at tea and then if (thinking positive!) she has a NW my mum is bringing medised and calpol from the UK and although they are the same strength as the DK stuff they seem to do the job better. This time it is the top molars hurting so maybe they are moving into position, that always stirs things up, I find the not eating all day and going to bed the worst part as her mum but she has drank gallons of milk so I am sure she will be ok.
Totally off topic but how depressing my neighbour who must be in her 60s is standing outside talking to a friend in a lepoard skin bikini and looks better than I would in a bikini >:(
Now about 10 min ago Leorah lead Martin to the bath to start her routine, I love that she does this now ;) I now know if she falls into a deep sleep as her head touches the pillow she is extremely OT and wakes up in the middle of the night for a long NW, when she takes a while to get into a sleep it seems she is not so OT so here's hoping she doesn't crash! Touch wood she has always settled really well for bed but she will usually cry out around 3 or 4 hours later when OT and then probably follow with a NW.Looking at positives as you have to, at least you know what not to do next time and also my mum will be able to really see just how sensitive L is to her routine ;)
Thanks for the order Nik ;) Good sleep vibes and (((hugs))) to all :)
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{{{HUGS}}} Katt, I only had time to read all of this and C went through a similar thing with teething (molars) which lasted about 2 weeks or so. i was also distraught at that stage that my wonderful sleeper has developed SA and was waking every 2-3h for 2 weeks and then one day everything was back to normal. What I'm trying to say it will get better. :-* :-*
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Hope last night was a good one for you all! :-*
LOL about the leopard skin bikini ;D >:( ;)
more vibes for a good nap today ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
we're going to the beach again as it will be a hot sunny day, so don't know what Lois will do nap wise... they've been all over the place on these days out. Usually she'll take a 30-40 min nap on the way there in am and the same on the way home in late pm :-\ so far she's ben fine and it's not affected her night sleep, so hope we're not pushing it too far by doing it again. She did have a good nap of 2 hrs at home yesterday at the normal time of 1pm.
Wish you and L could join us to the beach! After all you're just across the Kattegatt, you could take a long swim over ;)
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Hello everyone and 3 cheers for Leorah she slept the night through ;D ;D ;D ;D She was in bed from 5pm and screamed so I sat in her room while she settled and she was asleep properly within 20 mins, we heard her cry out exactly 4 hours later and then moaned a few times in the night and woke at 06.48 :o :o
After a very busy and exciting morning waking up to find Uncle Lee and Nanny here as well as too many gifts we decided to put her down at 12 but 10 mins before she started throwing her toys ::) All was not lost though, she took half an hour to settle down and drop off but was asleep by 12.30 so I hope she has a good nap, Martin put her down and thinks 5 mins earlier and she's have settled quicker so that would have 11.45am, the same as yesterday so we will try that tomorrow. Her teething was definitely having an impact on her mood today so it was more nurofen ( ::))and then she was fine but only eats fruit and has the worst nappies I can remember :-X
Thanks Elmarie for the reassurrance, that must have been a terrible time, I can see why you would be distraught, that's the thing you think your time is up of having a good sleeper when things go so wrong don't you?
Vicku, Lois sounds like she is doing really well on beach days, I think 2 x 40 min naps is great ;) I told Dh I definitely want to go to Sweden next year and he agrees it's about time so I will definitely want to meet up with you :-*
Thank you girls for being there for us this past week, I can see things should get better now and it's such a relief :D Martin and the others are out shopping so I am relaxing and hoping L takes a good nap as we are going out for lunch at the harbour when she wakes and then to the beach. I hope you all have a fab day :)
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{{{HUGS}}} I'm sure she will be back on track soon XX
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very good news ;D ;D
hope you had a lovely day :-*
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Yahoo for Leorah- I hope Mommy got some much needed rest too ;)
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Hurra för Leorah!!! STTN is a good sign that things might start righting themselves again. Hope she took a good nap and you got some nice Y time. Let us know how you get on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Hi Girls, well the family left yesterday and we have had mixed success with L. On Saturday I went out with my mum and DH looked after L and put her down after just 4 hours A time as she was tired and had been up twice in the night screaming like she was having a nightmare :( Of course she didn't nap and we had to put her to bed at 4.20pm and she fell asleep straight away and slept the whole night until 07.30am :o :o :o This super night then proved problematic for the following day, I put her down at 12 and she settled immediately with eyes closed cuddling her lovey but obviously wasn't tired enough so perked up and started playing ::) We decided to take her to Ikea as we needed to go anyway and so she fell asleep in the car after 6hrs A time and we parked up and she carried on sleeping so she had 55 minutes. As she didn't wake until 14.20pm I thought it would be a great opportunity to push her bedtime later but by 5pm her normal dinnertime she was crying and acting up wanting her dinner even though she does not eat more than 2 mouthfuls of anything for the past 2 weeks! After that she marched DH of to the bathroom and wanted to continue her bed routine and get to bed so although we are having morning A time probs she still wants a short PM A time which leads me to think this problem has mainly stemmed from a lack of routine, she thrives on her routine and I think we need to get her morning back to where she knows what the drill is. She is still acting OT, was chatting in her cot at midnight for about 5 mins and woke early today at 6.40am, we put her down at 12 again and 30 mins later she was still squealing and playing so I went and crossed her shoulder straps across her body so she was really restrained and she cried for about 30 secs and the gave in and settled down and closed her eyes and went to sleep. Do you think she was OT or UT? I hate to restrain her so firmly but I am glad it helped. I am very tempted now to push her until exhaustion for her nap which I know wont help the OT but work backwards from there. I am thinking about putting her down at 5.30/5.45 hours A time and see if she settles quicker and put her to bed early to help combat some OT, I know this is risky but it is better than no nap which she really can't handle. I am very much hoping with DH back at work on Thursday that we can get some normality back in her little life, she is still teething hard with no teeth through yet ::) She literally pushes her fingers or toys really hard onto her gums at the back of her mouth, I'm sure she is going to hurt herself :( Her behaviour is getting out of control and I feel lost, don't know how much of the bad behaviour is down to tiredness and lack of routine and how much is developemental, I just want my happy girl back :'( Any ideas greatly appreciated as usual.
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Katt- my advice would be to pick a morning A time before nap and a pm A time post nap, and stick with it for a few days (or longer). So say 5 hours before nap and 4.5 hours post nap. I think that might help get her sorted out on when she should be sleeping...
Sorry it's so rough at the moment, but it will get better!
L :-*
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Hi Leslie, I think you are absolutely right but I am worried 5 hours wont be enough or if that makes her OT it will not be enough to make her exhausted enough to drop anyway, KWIM? I am thinking of going with 5½ hours in the AM. I think she was a bit OT today after 5hrs20 mins but she slept just over an hour after she finally dropped off (nearer to 6hrs A), we then went walking with the dog while she had (played) with her lunch which is what we used to do and she seemed to like it :) I am definitely going to work on structuring her mornings a bit more again, although the teething and the ear thing haven't helped I am now pretty sure it is the lack of routine that has caused the biggest problems.
Thanks, OI will now go and cjheck out how M is doing ;)
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Guess what Leslie, I think you are spot on with the 5 hours A time ;) Today we had family around again (groan :P) and Leorah had woken around 6.40am (early for her). At about 4½hrs A time she was sitting at the table having a snack and watching a dvd very calmly, my plan was to put her down at 12 again but by quarter to 12 she suddenly had a burst of energy started running around the room squealing and wrestling her toy horse ::) I put her down at 12 (5hrs 20 A time)and she finally dropped off at 1 after I strapped her down again! I have the feeling if I had put her down at 5 hrs or just before we wouldn't have had this problem. I will definitely try for 5 hours tomorrow, please cross your fingers for me.
DH is also going to cover our conservatory roof with dark plastic and we are going to pull the blinds down so it isn't so bright and I am starting a pre nap routine again of a snack and a dvd as she thrives on a routine and will soon get with the programme I hope! No NWs the past few days so I do think we are slowly getting somewhere though these short naps make her want a very early bedtime.
Leslie I am so happy you are getting long naps, you so deserve them, well done to you for all your hard work and consistancy, you are a true expert now ;)
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Hi Katt, lack of structure always throws a spanner in the works round here, Lily used to sleep eat etc like clockwork as a baby/young toddler but weekends with Dan home it would all go to pot. Good news is as they get older they do get a lot better at coping with long spells of irregularity in the routine. With regard to tantrums etc, probably that is down to the teething and ear problems but mostly OT. Lily is like the girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead. When she is OT she is a totally different child, made more noticeable by her angel/textbook behaviour when she is OK.
Good idea to remove outside stimulation and make conservatory darker, particularly as she gets older, when they go through these nap refusal spurts the less they can do to keep themselves awake the better. Lily's room is as black as coal to make it as boring as possible so that sleep stays No1 priority, not having a singing lesson with all her babies and teddies!
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Awww Katt- I'm no expert, that's for sure. I hope it works! Go with your gut on A time-
We've had success with keeping our days the same- breakfast at 7:40am, Sesame Street around 8:30am, outside from about 9:45am-11ish, lunch and then nap. I think M's body now knows what to expect. Same with post nap...
Let us know how tomorrow goes-
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I know what you mean abou the singing Nik, drives me crazy! It doesn't matter how much I cutr down on the stimultaion she always finds something even if it is just blinking ::)
Leslie I also wanted to do evetrything at the same time like breakfast but she really isn't eating at the mo', I guess it's her teeth. All she ate yesterday was half a corn cob, 3 grapes and half a pear and we were saying she has eaten really well :P
Well I at least had a great night, 10 hours! I think Leorah woke twice, we didn't give her meds before bed so we heard some crying in her sleep for the first few hours. She was awake around 6.40 again today so I am putting her down around 11.40 I think. Yesterday she slept 1hr15 but woke up miserable and crying her eyes out, I really need to fix this!
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Hi Ladies I need your opinions please! Today I put Leorah for her nap at 4.55 hours and she still took 50 mins to sleep :P The last 10 mins were with her eyes shut but she'd open them now and again. Once again I seemed to miss her window where she has a snack and watches a dvd, could the snack (corn cobs again today) be giving her a burst of energy or does eating relax them and then you get them down quick ??? Today when she started getting energetic I sat her on my lap and watched an episode of Noddy so she relaxed a bit again and then put her down. I really am not sure whether she needs more A, less A or if she needs this time to wind herself down whatever the A time. By the time she was asleep she was quite jerky but she resettled herself everytime and slept for about 1hr25 mins. This long settling for her nap is driving me mad but DH pointed out it is getting better, there is less squealing, naps are getting longer and we haven't had any refusals and slowly her settling time is shortening. Do you think if I put her down at 5 hours every day with the same routine (up, breakfast, walk, garden play, snack and dvd) her body will recognise the cues again and she will start settling quicker or is this a time issue ??? DH is convinced it is because she hasn't had a set routine, I am praying he is right!
Thanks, Katt x
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I'd say if things are slowly improving and you stick with a fairly set routine for a while, maybe more so than you did before it will all come good again. If you've given it a couple of weeks and she is still taking longer to settle, then maybe push A time 10/15mins, but in all honesty I'd say it was probably unlikly that her A time has jumped that far from what she was doing before all this started. I'd say maybe 1/2hr jump in 'normal' A time max.
Lily usually is in bed 30mins after lunch ends and she usually settles fairly quickly (10/15mins) so it is possible she having a slight energy boost but for Lily its not to noticeable. The dinner rush is the one I notice more, its like a witching hour. She is getting tired but has a new boost of energy but it just makes her leary, she is easily over excited at this time of night. So in answer I wouldn't say eating relaxes Lily.
Hugs
Nik x
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Thanks Nik, I will try and be very consistant these next few weeks. Back in March she was doing 5 hours A time but Nws and Ews crept in so I put it back to about 4hr40 but then at the end of May her molars bumped up and she got sick and then the ear problem and her A time went down to about 4hrs
20/30 so 5 hours by now should be ok I would think.
I think that dinnertime witching hour is common, we are lucky that so far we have never had that, Leorah loves her bath routine and bed which is what makes me think she needs more structure in the morning. At the moment she is barely eating anything so I don't know why I am wondering about food! One thing that always relaxes her is milk, I am going to give her a straw cup of milk for her nap tomorrow and hold back her lovey as she just plays with it, if she throws the cup on the floor when she's finished it can stay there but I always have to give her Tinky Winky and her dummies back ::)
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Woohoo, baby steps of improvement :D Today Leorah woke 5 minutes later at 6.45am, I put her down at 5 hours A time and she took only 40 mins to be completely asleep with the last 15 mins very quiet (if she was in a cot in her room I would have thought she was sleeping), hardly any squealing today ;D The milk was a great idea as she went into the pushchair calmly, I realise I have to take whatever stimulation I can away so no shoes and then she just takes off her socks, no lovey and the pram hood has to be right down the back so she can't pull it to the front and play with it, as soon as I strapped her down and gave her some bonjela she went quiet and relaxed so maybe I need to let her have 10 or 15 mins and then go and recline her and strap her in. No NWs last night either so improvement all around ;D
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Yay Leorah! I find the same with M re: stimulation. She can't have anything in her hand when she goes in her crib, otherwise it takes forever to get to sleep.
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Hi Katt,
Just caught up on this thread and realised I never told you I was going away for nearly a week :-[ Sorry! I'm back now and very pleased to read about the improvements. Hope they continue!
From what I've read it really seems L thrives on her routine, and sticking to that and getting her body to 'know' when to expect sleep sounds like a great idea! My advice would be that you could either stick to a 'set schedule' with set times, or you could go with A times for a while but still do a set routine order and then work up to fixing the times when you know what suits best. I guess when you get more regularity it's easier to fix times as you then will know what she will do, sleep wise. Eventually having fixed times (that can be varied if needs be of course) would be easier IMO and stops the day from getting gradually put out over time.
We're just back from our summer cottages again. Have had good sleep for most of it but routine out the window eating wise, so will see how we settle back in this time.
Big hugs to you both! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Hej Vicku, good to have you back, I thought you'd gone a bit quite ;) ;D I'm glad you had a good time and sleep was ok but it is funny you should mention food, we have never had set food times and L's appetite varies but for 2 weeks she hardly ate a thing! I don't know if it was teething or just the whole tired thing but I actually started getting worried as she seemed a bit thin around the belly but the last few days she has been eating again.
I am so happy today :D Leorah took less than 25 mins to settle ;D ;D ;D She was asleep by 12 and I don't know how long she had already been asleep as I was cooking. I put her 5 mins early because she got a bit OT yesterday after napping just an hour, I realise now that she needs 2 full cycles to manage 4½ hours or more in the afternoons, she took nearly an hour to settle to sleep last night and was awake crying after exactly 3 hours ::) She then woke in the middle of the night and DH thought it was her teeth (which still aren't through :P) so gave her medised and she went straight back to sleep until 6.40am which is still too early in my book! What my aim is is a 7am wake, 12 nap up by 1.30 and then 6.30 bed which I know will vary slightly but I am hoping to at least have that fixed morning. One thing all this has taught me is that I should never stray too far from L's routine or at least not for too long, we have only been back on the routine for a few days and even her change in behaviour is obvious, I have learned a big lesson!
Anyway good to have you back :-*
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Hi again Katt,
Hope she had a good nap! I'm sure things will continue to improve now once you're back in your routine and even more so when these nasty teeth come through finally. Did you darken the conservatory and do you think that helped too?
We have an eating schedule but don't always follow it, especially lately :P
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Well I have to say I have my daughter back ;D The last few days she has been going for her nap at 11.30 regardless of wake up and she is not squealing or playing and is asleep within 8 minutes!! She is definitely a bit OT still even though she managed an almost 1½ hour nap yesterday she was a monster before bed (just 4½ hrs A) and didn't even want stories ::) We are having very early wakes for her, around 6am now, I'm not sure if it's a case of that's all the sleep she needs now or if teething is playing a part as she has all the symptoms but for now I have decided to just go with the flow and I don't turn her light on until 7. Yesterday she was crying when she woke but I went and laid her down and she had another 20 mins sleep before crying again. If the EWs continue I will know she has had enough sleep and will push her day on slowly but I am going to wait until I know she isn't OT. Vicku, I think the darkening of the conservatory helps when she is in there because it is so bright, when she is outside she is in the shade but with the weather we are having now it doesn't matter because there is no sun! Another thing I think made a huge difference is giving her the cup of milk instead of Tinky Winky, she doesn't always drink the milk but cuddles the cup but we don't have her tuck it in with "sshh" and "night, night" or walking it
around singing "lalalala!" for half an hour! I have also been warning Leorah that her nap is coming up, when we sit for sa snack and dvd I tell her that it is nap time in half an hour (not that she can tell the time!), I then tell her 10 mins before and near the end of the dvd I tell her it is nap time when the dvd ends, I think it has helped that she doesn't suddenly have a nap annpouncement and is then strapped in pushchair within minutes! Oh and I don't need to super strap her down anymore :D
Vicku can you have a look at Rachpem's post, help I need a plan? I have been trying to help but it seems her DD will only sleep a 10 hour night regardless of day sleep etc and I remember you have the same with Lois so I recommended she talks to you, I know you wont mind ;) :-*
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I can't believe it, Leorah is now napping 1½-2hrs a day, falling asleep almost immediatley ;D She is acting like her evening A time needs to be shorter and it just occured to me today that it probably means she needs a longer A time but needs me to push her so she has just been put down at 5hrs15 so I hope she'll still do the 12-12½ hours she has been doing but will wake up closer to 7. Her teething has also calmed for a few days, we have the poos and dribbling but no whinging, no NWs and no need for medicine, it's good to have a break!
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That's wonderful to hear my friend! Sounds like you're on the road to full recovery of Leorah's sleep :) These things can take a while to figure out but it sounds like you're on it now. She'll probably be ready to slowly push her day fwd again now the OT is easing, just take it slowly though and keep listening to your instincts.
I've pm:d Rachael back as she sent me a message, but I'll also take a look at her post when I get a minute.
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Hi again Vicku :) We had an 1hr15 min nap today but that was after a very busy and stimulating morning, I don't mind that length nap as that is what I am used to and I just love the fact she naps and is asleep within 8 m ins everyday now! She woke a few minutes to 7 today as well so things are going exactly where I want them to :D Her Great Gran visits tomorrow so another exciting day but at least I know she will nap now!
Thanks for helping Rachael out, I hope you don't mind me mentioning you but she is having a very hard time and it sounds like she has similar sleep needs to Lois. Thank for all the support you have given me in this challenging time :-*
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I don't mind at all hun! I'm just happy to help where I can :) I'll pop on her thread now.
Thank for all the support you have given me in this challenging time :-*
That's what friends are for right? :-* :-*