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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: newmama12 on August 20, 2008, 00:56:00 am
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DD (16 months) has been doing one nap a day now for a good week and half or so. Ever since completely switching to one nap she has a very hard time falling asleep at night for bedtime. I have no idea what's going on! The only link is that it started when we completely changed to one nap. She use to fall asleep within 15-20 minutes max, but now it's taking 30-50 minutes every night. I don't get it! Has anyone else experienced this and figured out what is the issue? Is she ot?? She can't possibly be ut. Her schedule today was up at 6:10am, napped 11:30-1:45pm and I put her in bed at 7:05pm for the night and it's 7:50pm and she's still rolling around. I'm not sure what I need to do about it! TIA!! I appreciate all the advice/help I get on this board!
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My guess is she's overtired. It's tough during the 2-1 nap transition because when they move to 1 nap they aren't *quite* ready, and often are exhausted by bedtime.
I'd move her bedtime earlier by 30 minutes (closer to 6:30) and see what happens! Give it a good 3 days before giving up on the earlier bedtime. We may need to move it even earlier -- when my DS first went to 1 nap, he had a 6 pm bedtime for a bit! But don't worry -- he quickly got back to a 7:30 bedtime over the next month or 2.
Let me know how it goes!
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Our DD was doing the same exact thing right after the 2-1 switch! But she would be awake for 30 minute to 1.5 hours!! And not crying either, just AWAKE! Playing, talking, rolling around. Sometimes she would end up crying which was the worst because she would go down at 7:30 and we would be downstairs trying to relax, but you could hear her awake up there and then at 9:00 she would finally get bored and start crying and I'd have to go and do WI/WO or GW for a little while. I thought at first she was OT, I mean we DID cut out a nap. So we tried putting her to bed a little earlier, that made it worse. VERY surprisingly it only got better when DH suggested putting her down for bedtime LATER. I thought he was nuts, but agreed to try it. Sure enough, we held her out till 8:00 and she went to sleep much quicker and after 2 days was going right to sleep. We did that for about a week or so and then gradually moved her back to a 7:30 bedtime, and she has been doing fine since. I know this is not the norm!! But in case the earlier bedtime makes it worse for you too, at least you know some babies are wacky like mine! LOL!!
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I have one like that, she rarely gets crabby because of not enough sleep. Sometimes she won't take a nap(she is 23 mo) she will just babble and play and never sleep but when bedtime comes she is out like a light! other nights with a good nap she might have trouble.
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I agree....an earlier bedtime....maybe 6:30?
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Bumping for more help!!
We are still having falling asleep issues!! DD is still taking 45 minutes or so to fall asleep at bedtime. I have put her down earlier, but it's not seeming to matter.
Here's what happened today:
Wake: 6:50am
Nap: 11:50-1:20pm
In Bed: 7:05pm
Asleep: 7:45pm
ETA: There have been about 2 nights these past few weeks where she hasn't gone into bed till closer to 8pm and has gone right to sleep. Now, this is just weird b/c that is a very LONG day for a 16 month old who is normally up around 6:15am and doesn't normally nap for more than 1.75 hours. Also, now that she doesn't fall asleep till close to 8, she is waking closer to 7am. Is she just changing her schedule?? I don't really want her to have a later bedtime, is there a way to figure out how to move it back so that she is sleeping by 7:30pm, the latest?
I don't get why she's taking so long!! This is a fairly new thing and seems to be associated with the one nap transition. She never took this long to fall asleep when she was doing 2 naps. And...it's not like she's napping 2.5-3 hours during the day. It was barely 1.5 hours today! Is she ot?? I have tried putting her down at 6:45pm, but we run into the same thing! I'm at a loss here. :(
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just marking my spot, we seem to have the exact same issues going on lately.....we did the nap switch and for the first month and a half all was fine, but lately it has been taking a long long time for them to settle down. tried earlier bedtime tonight (6:45 instead of 7) and they settled by 7:20 instead of closer to 8pm......waiting to see what a couple of days of this will bring.
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I would guess it is OT too especially if her nap continues to shorten, did you try the 6.30pm bedtime for a few days? When you put her down at 8pm she could have been so OT that she fell straight to sleep, do you ever hear her call out in the evening between sleep cycles? My DD does this when she is a bit OT, usually after 3 or 4 hours, she resettles herself but I know that I have to watch her A times then. For a few months after the transition you have to really expect OT to be only a blink away and watch for any little sign, my DD would only sleep 1hr15 max when first transitioned but would go to bed no later than 4½ hrs after waking from the nap so as early as 5.30pm most nights but we avoided OT completely, like your DD she also started waking later in the day which happens for some LOs after the transition, luckily for me she tacked her sleep onto her nights so wouldn't wake earlier with an early bedtime. A great piece of advice I was given over the transition was to have DD in bed 12 hours from when she woke unless she had a 2hr plus nap which never happened for us! There is also the possibility that she needs some time in her cot to unwind so if you put her in early then at least she will eventually sleep earlier too.
HTH, Katt :)
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Katt, no I have not tried a 6:30pm bedtime. I think the earliest I've gotten her down during this transition is 6:45 or 6:50pm. I will try for a 6:30 tonight! Last night she fell asleep at 7:45 and woke today at 6:40, so I will try for a nap around 11:45 and then bed at 6:30 hoping she'll be asleep by 7. This is all sooo frustrating!! LOL!
Oh and it doesn't help that she's cutting both her bottom eye teeth. These teeth seem to bother her more than any of the others.
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I agree with PP -- you need to try earlier bedtime.
Yucky teeth! They do throw a wrench in thing! I know for my son he gets more easily OT while teething. I automatically put him down for naps and betime 30 minutes earlier when he's getting teeth. You may find after these teeth come in that all your sleep troubles disappear! :)
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Oh yeah teeth really muck everything up, we have had OT naps for a few days now which I think are due to teething 2nd molars but I put her down 30 mins early with some meds and she took a good nap. Hopefully when the teeth are through she will be back to normal :)
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Thanks ladies!! She fell asleep for a nap at 12:15, so we'll see how long she sleeps. I'm still going to go for a 6:30/6:45pm bedtime. This way, if she only sleeps 1.5 hours (which seems to be the norm lately) she'll have 5 hours of A time should be plenty for 16 month old. :)
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we are doing the same thing here today newmama12.... we are doing 12:15 for nap (which is upcoming) and then early to bed. we did early to bed last night and actually had a solid good night's sleep with very little chatting before they fell asleep. we'll see if it is the same tonight. :)
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momtonb&ab......I can't imagine coordinating bedtime for TWO babies!!!!!!!!!!! you're my hero! lol
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Momtonb&ab, how did nap go? J only napped 1.5 hours like I guessed. She woke at the first 45 minute mark and fussed and cried for about 7 minutes. Then went back to sleep for another 45. She's not feeling well though. Teething, runny & stuff nose. :(
Ok ladies, DD woke close to 2pm after almost a 1.5 hour nap. Should I still shoot for a 6:30-6:45pm bedtime or later?
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6:30/6:45 for sure. That waking at the 45 min mark is OT marker. Also, probably disturbed by teeth/cold. Runny nose could just be from teeth of course, but it doesn't make it any less annoying for bub! :P
6:30 still gives you a good 4.5 A time, which I've found is the magic number for my son while teething. In fact, he's 2.8 and he still only does 4.5 hours A time before bedtime (does 5-6 before nap). Give it a try today! Worst thing that happens is she takes longer to fall asleep and you have a more 'normal' bedtime.
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Well, I got her in bed at 6:40pm. She was definetly tired and laid right down, but she still didn't fall asleep till about 7:20pm, so 40 minutes. Better than 8pm! However, I think I know the issue. She can't breathe well b/c her nose is so stuffed. :( She's uncomfortable. I kept hearing her move all around trying to get comfy but her nose was bothering her. Poor baby. I think this would have worked if her poor nose wasn't all stuffed up. Her nose has only been stuffed for the past 3 days or so. Doesn't explain the the long time to fall asleep all last week, but I definetly think she would have gone to sleep earlier had she been feeling good.
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if it helps, we put our guys down at 6:35 tonight and they were literally asleep by 6:45....crazy...... and today's nap was 2 solid hours, so i think this might be the right approach!
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Actually when my DD has unexplained OT/sleep issues she often gets sick within the week so maybe she has been starting to feel a little rough and unsettled before the stuffy nose. Have you tried medised when she has trouble breathing at night? It is paracetomel with antihistamine so it clears the nose and takes away the pain of any aches and discomfort, when Leorah has a cold it is the best, one dose before bed usually means she'll have a good night.
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Skatty, is Medised like a Saline spray? We have that, but don't have Medised.
Well, I'm convinced my dd will only sleep 11 hours at night. She fell asleep at about 7:20 last night and slept till 6:15am. When she was falling asleep closer to 8pm (these past 5 nights or so) she was waking around 7am. Her nose is still all stuffed this morning, so most likely a cold. When she's better I'll have to see if things go back to 'normal.' :)
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No medised is like calpol/tylenol but as well as being a pain reliever it has a decongestant too. If the troubles are caused fromthe cold I am sure you will get back on track quickly when she feels better and may even make up some sleep.
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Well, glad she fell asleep earlier! But don't assume because you got 11 hours this one night, that it will always be the pattern. One thing we forget is it takes at least 3 days for body clocks to change. You know how if you get in the habit of getting up at a certain time for work or school that you often wake up at that same time on the weekends? Even if you want to sleep in? Her body is used to 11 hour stretches, and so it will take a few days of breaking the OT cycle for her to get a longer stretch in.
It *is* possible that 11 hours is her max, but I'm just saying its not a certainty, you know? Plus, it takes more than 1 night of early bedtimes to kill the OT monster! :)
Poor baby with the stuffed nose! Have you tried a humidifier in her room? We often do that with my son. Also, our ped recommends benedryl to dry out the nose. We find that benedryl will dry it out enough for him to fall asleep.
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newmama12-sorry to hear that you are still struggling with the 2-1 too. I hope your LO gets better soon.
I find that 11 hour nights after 1.5 hour naps or less, are due to OT. Kind of like the 1.25 hour nap vs. the 30 minute nap. When we get 11 hour nights after a shorter nap day my DS is not so OT that he wakes after 10-10.5 ( a sure sign of super OT) but is just that wee bit OT not to do the extra he needs to make up for lost sleep, IYKWIM. I was the biggest skeptic of early bedtimes,. always have been, but they really, really work.
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Well, she went to bed late last night due to family in town visiting. Sure enough, another 11 hour night. 8:10pm till just after 7am. Hmmm. I definetly need to give it more time, like you suggested, Becky. Seems as if this is in coincidence with the one nap transition, cutting eye teeth and now her cold/stuffy nose. We'll see how nap goes. I am still going to do an early bedtime (6:30) unless some miracle occurs and she naps 2+ hours. :)
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Ugghhh! Same issue tonight! She napped from 12:50-2:50 (first time in awhile that it's been a 2 hour nap). I put her in bed at 7:15pm and it's 7:45 and she's still not sleeping. AHHH!! I can't figure out why in the world she's taking so long. Maybe we just don't have a good wind down routine yet?!?!
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I think after a good 2 hr nap she could have probably done with just a bit more A time.around 5 hrs I would think.
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Identical things going on here... DS is a week away from 16 months, has had a cold for a while, switched to 1 nap about a month ago, and is taking forever to go to sleep. Last night it was 2 1/2 hours between bedtime (6:30 - I'm used to this early bedtime during this transition) and when he finally fell asleep at 9:00. Not a peep out of him after that all night (it's 6:50 am here and he's still asleep).
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Oh, and cutting big ol' molars on top and drooling like crazy...
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i personally think the molars and 'i' teeth have a lot to do with this as well. after reading this post and reverting to early bed and pushing nap time back by 15-30 mins (so 12 or 12:15 instead of 12:30) things are a bit better for us, but ds has one molar and two 'i' teeth threatnening the gums right now and he is just not himself. but he seems better and resting better with the early bed early nap....
i wonder if we will all notice a change once those teeth have come through?
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I certainly hope so! Found out this morning that DS has an ear infection as well (high fever yesterday gave me a big clue), so that's just adding to the mix! At least now he can take some medicine for that and hopefully get it straightened out soon.
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^^Ugghh, I'm so sorry (momtothomas) about the ear infection. :( Poor baby. J is definetly getting her bottom 2 eye teeth. They're big swollen bulges. :( Thank goodness the top 2 came in already. She seems to not be drooling/chewing too much so maybe they're not bothering her today.
Well, last night she fell asleep right after I posted, so about 7:45 and slept till 6:45 this morning. Was sleeping for her nap at 12:05 pm and still down (1 hour later). So, we'll see how long it lasts. Then that'll determine bedtime. If it's more than 1.5 hours, I'll be sure to give her 5 hours of A time. I do think last night she only had 4.5 hours of A (after a 2 hour nap) before bed and it wasn't enough. She didn't seem tired, but I was kind of "sticking to regular bedtime).
What's going to happen when she starts to nap at l:00pm (till 2:30-3pm)? Will her bedtime be even later, more closer to 8pm?
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That's a great question, newmama! There's a couple different ways this works out. For some kids, as their nap moves later they need less daytime sleep, so you're able to keep pretty much the same bedtime. Sometimes you need to move your bedtime up by 30-60 minutes, so you'll have 8-8:30 bedtime. And then some kids are weird like my son! As he extends the length of his AM A time, his PM A time has gotten shorter! :o Weird, but hey, it works! Right now, he naps from 2-4 :o and is in bed no later than 8, and usually asleep immediately. Very odd.
If you *do* have to move bedtime later, it will probably be rather temporary because your child will eventually drop the nap, and then you'll go back to having a very early bedtime that slowly becomes later as they extend their A times again! So, a 'standard' bedtime that doesn't change probably won't happen until they're around 5! ;D But, at least we don't have to change nap times every month or so like in the first year, eh? ;)
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Thanks Becky! That totally makes sense!
Ok, so for those of you following our sleep issues, you'll be glad to know that today we have the PERFECT day!! Finally!! :) DD woke at 6:45am and we went about our morning and had playgroup. Came home and she was sleeping by 12:05, so just over 5 hours of A time (previously I was putting her down for a nap around 5.5 hours of A time). She slept...ready.....2.5 hours and I had to wake her!!! I woke her at 2:30 because I didn't want to push bedtime too much later. Wait, it gets better! So, this thread is about how it's been taking her 30+ minutes to fall asleep at night, but tonight, I put her in bed at 7:30 (5 hours of A time) and she was asleep in 15 minutes!!! WOOHOO! She hasn't done that in about 2 weeks!! I am soooo happy!! I really hope we're on to something, but I'm not going to hold my breath. So many things are happening now: the whole transition to one nap, getting 2 eye teeth, little cold/runny nose from the teething, possible growth spurt (as she is constantly eating). I'm still trying to be hopeful, though!! :)
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YAY!!! Looks like you're finding the "magic" A time length!
I gotta say, even at 2.5 my son can't do much more than 5 hours A time either before or after nap. so, I think you've figured out your OT problem! Let's hope you get a nice solid night's sleep and a decent waking tomorrow!
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Congratulations on your perfect day, whishing you many more ;)
Becky can I just say thanks! What you described about your DS doing less A time after nap while he extends his A before nap is what is happening to us I believe. Leorah can handle 5½ hrs before nap easily now but most afternoons 5hrs A time is pushing it and when we have put her down after 4½ she has slept better. That is good to know, cheers ;)
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Ugghhh, well, not so much of a great wake up this morning. :( She woke at 6am. Actually, 5:58am. What the heck?!?! That I do not understand. The past week she's been sleeping exactly 11 hours at night, which means she should have woken at about 6:30 the earliest. I left her in bed playing till 6:30, but then she had had enough and starting fussing to get out. I'm so sad. I thought we 'had it'. :( Don't understand why she woke so early. Any thoughts??
This kind of messes up naptime now. If I go with 5 hours of A that puts us at 11am. Too early?? Maybe not. But what if she only naps 1.5 hours? Early bed?? Or should I go with 5.5 hours of A?
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((((hugs))))) newmama! Let me tell you, the road to 1 nap is paved with many days like this. My DH was ready to stuff earplugs in his ear because every day I had the same worries as you: when do I put him down for nap now? and what about bedtime? why did it not work yesterday? I don't get it!!!!
What's happening is your child's body is adjusting, and she's still stretching into her A time. Some days it will work great! Some days not so great because they get OT cumulatively -- in other words, some days that 1 nap is fine, but other days they are a bit more tired and so it stretches them too much. A lot of moms, me included, found that even after their child was able to take 1 nap, it was still necessary to offer 2 naps 2-3 times a week, just for the reasons you're stating: they woke too early, so 1 nap would happen too early, and then bedtime would be obscenely early -- like 5:30 pm!
So, you've got a couple of choices: you can offer an early AM nap (around 10) that lasts no more than 15-20 minutes, and then a longer PM nap later (around 2:30). OR you can still offer the 1 nap at the usual time, hope for a long nap and then give a very very early bedtime. The bedtime is key because that tends to be where the OT really starts to backfire on you and result in NWs or EWs if you don't get it right. You know your child best so can probably decide which you think will work best for you. The problem with offering the 1 nap at the usual time is that you are gambling that she will nap longish -- there's a risk that she's OT already by then, and so will only nap 30-45 minutes. But that happens! Happened to me SEVERAL times during the transition!
Let me just warn you: you'll probably have a month or so liek this, where either you're alternating 2 and 1 nap days, or you're having a few days a week where bedtime is 5:30 or 6 pm. But, after about a month her A time will extend enough that she'll easily handle the long A times she needs and won't get OT as easily. Hang in there! You're doing it EXACTLY right! Your DD is just going to need some time to grow into this new routine! :)
Skatty: I'm glad I mentioned that! I discovered it by accident, and it would have been helpful to know that it could work that way. Guess I don't have the only odd bub around! ;D
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Becky, Thanks for the encouragement!! Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get in the am nap this morning. We already had plans to attend a class and I didn't want to back out last minute. She was definetly yawning and fussy during. So, it's now 11:45am and she's just about asleep. :( Today is totally blown, but we shall move on! I'll see how long she sleeps and that'll determine bedtime. OMG...I cannot imagine a 5:30/6pm bedtime. The earliest I've ever set her in bed is at 6:30pm. But I know that we will, most likely, have a few days where she just really needs to be in bed that early. You make a very good point about needing to go back and forth with the 2 and 1 nap days. I honestly figured that once she switched it would be fine, but since we're still having ew issues and shorter naps (some days) that this is the problem. I will see how tomorrow shapes out and just play things by ear. She's still getting tired at the 4-4.5 hour A mark, but I have been keeping her up till at least 5 -5.5 hours b/c I didn't want to go back to 2 naps and confuse her but I think we might have to on these days that she's waking at 6am! Thanks soo much for all your help and guidance thru this!!
ETA: Becky, one other thing...sometimes when I have done 2 naps in the past (short am, longer pm) we run into bedtime issues. If she sleeps 2:30-4 (let's say), there's no way she'll be ready for bed before 8pm. I suppose then I can try for an earlier pm nap, like maybe 1:30/2pm and sleep no longer than 3:30?? Or I have to push bedtime later those days.
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Update: She only napped 1.5 hours (up at 1:15pm). :( I knew it b/c she woke at the 45 minute mark today. Yesterday she did not and slept 2.5 hours. :) So, what time is bedtime? She woke at 6am today. Should I do a 6:30pm bedtime? That is in bed at that time with hopes of sleeping by 6:45. Or should I do earlier?
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she will likely be overtired, so a 5.5 hour activity / awake time might be too long. if you can pull it off, i would consider aiming for a 6 or 6:15 in bed in hopes of catching the tired window before it is overtired. that will also jive with the 12 hour day that generally works miracles for most little ones.
huge hugs to you. hang in there....it will get better. (trust me, we just lived through it and still have a day here and there that needs tweaking.)
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Momtonb&ab, I am going to try and pull off in bed at 6:15pm. Wish me luck! I'd freakin' scared she's going to wake at 5:15am. Or...if I'm lucky she'll fall asleep quickly. I'd hate to have her up there for 45 minutes playing around before she falls asleep (that has been another issue too). Then it'll be 6:45/7pm before she does and that totally defeats the whole purpose of putting her down early. So, hopefully, things will work out!
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good luck......
have you tried w2s with her aroudn the 10.5 hour mark? might help break the 11 hour night and buy you some time....
another thing my mom had suggested to us that helped when ds was waking at 5:30 every morning was to put a sippy cup of water in the crib with him. he was waking thirsty and couldn't get back to sleep. first few nights i thought i must have been losing my mind because all he did was play with it, but i stuck it out on mom's advice and it turns out that he now has a drink around 5 or 5:30 and goes back to sleep until at least 7 am most days.
hang in there..........we're cheering for you and it will get better, you are doign all the right things. oh, and i always figure if they are chatting in their cribs at least they aren't being further stimulated with toys/tv etc....it is restful time at least, better than play time.
hugs!
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Have you tried taking him outside for some fresh air after dinner? I have to do this lately to wear ds and dd out for the night.
Good luck for tonight.
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Momtonb&ab, I have recently thought of the sippy with water in the crib as I realized a lot of people are doing that. I might try it tonight, just to see. Can't hurt! :) I just hope it doesn't leak out..LOL!
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newmama -- I know that alternating 1 and 2 nap days is a big pain, but it often is just what the dr ordered while your child's A time is stretching. It is SUCH a tough time! One day they do fine with 1 nap! But they are a teensy bit OT, so the next day they need that little catnap in the AM.
And what I did is exactly what you're saying -- I'd just give him a late bedtime on the 2 nap days. Upside? It usually meant he slept later in the morning (in your case, with 11 hour nights, 7 am!) so that made it easier to make the following day a 1 napper! Since you're finding 4.5-5 hours the 'magic' spot, a 7 am waking would give you a nice noon nap time, which is about perfect! Then, 2 pm waking and a 7 pm bedtime! Nice! Of course, the next day you'll probably be back to 2 naps. But this phase is very short -- like I said a month max -- so, just hang on to your last hair (in other words, don't pull ALL of them out!) because by the end of September I predict you'll be solidly in 1 nap territory! At least, that seems to be the trend of the babies I've worked with!
I totally agree with PP -- 6:15 max for bedtime. I think that will give you the best results.
Also, how is your child's room in terms of darkness?? my son is HIGHLY sensitive to light in his room, and we always got EWs once spring came around because the sun came up earlier! Have you tried blacking out her windows? It may be worth a try! Sometimes just a little extra darkness in the AM will at least convince them it's still night and they may TRY to go back to sleep! ;) This is your DD's first year as a child in a way. IN other words, last summer she was still an infant, and infants can often sleep thru ANYTHING! It's how Nature designed them! :) But children develop strong likes and dislikes. You'll find over the next year or two that she hates being hot, or loves having lots of pillows, hates the light, or absolutely HAS to have a nightlight.
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Thanks everyone! Becky, I will totally start going back to 2 naps when necessary. I was under the impression that once I switched her to one, that I should not go back to 2 (even every now and then). I now understand why she would need to switch back and forth occasionally. Because she is definetly ot.
As for tonight, I had her in bed at 6:25pm. I know, a little later than planned. DH got home a little late and...well...ya know. He was bummed she was going right to bed. But....she took 40 minutes to fall asleep. :( Didn't fall asleep till 7:05. I guess it's better than putting her in bed at 7 and not sleeping till 7:40pm. I am anticipating a 6am wake up, and if that's the case, she will be getting 2 naps tomorrow. I know she was OT though. She started yawning at about 5:15pm and was getting pretty fussy till after I fed her dinner. Then she was fine till bed but then took a long time to fall asleep.
I also put a sippy cup of water in her bed. Thanks for the suggestion! Don't know if she'll see it...LOL! But we'll see how it works out. She normally is pretty thirsty in the morning. The first thing we do when we come downstairs is get a cup of water for her. So, maybe having one in the bed 'might' help with the EW's. We shall see.
Becky, her room is pretty dark. Her room faces east and I was finding that in the spring she started waking 5:45 am with the sun. I put up some room darkening drapes. It's not pitch black, but it's pretty dark, even in the morning light.
ETA: I just thought of a question. What happens if we go back to 2 naps and they're both equally as long as her 'normal' one nap? For ex: if she does 20 minutes for the am nap and 45 minute or an hour or 1.15 hours for the pm. That's roughly the same about of time (if not less) than what she's been doing for the one nap. Is the idea not to necessarily nap longer but to just nap later in the pm to help OT before bedtime?
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Good morning. I'm back to update. She slept till 6:05am...11 hours again. I've been doing a sleep log for her now for about 2.5 weeks and the only thing that is consistent is the 11 hour nights. At this point, should I be convinced that that is all she will sleep at night? Or do I still give it more time?
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Hi newmama, was also posting with you on 2-1 switch. Can't remember how old you lo is? Anyway, just quickly, I thought two naps one day and one nap another would confuse but not at all. We have bedtime at 7pm every night - that is our consistency. The best thing I have done is go by tired signs. For example, on the days that she does 2 naps and the am one is 1.30 mins and the pm one is 1 hour then bedtime is still 7pm. The next day she might have caught up on sleep and only want one nap of 1.20 and a 20 mins catnap, bedtime still 7pm. Next day might sleep a 2 hour nap, betime still 7pm. But this works for us. Our pattern was either 11.5 hours of night sleep and 2 hours day sleep (when on 2 naps), or 11 hours night sleep and 2.5 hours day sleep. She seems to go between the two and I am not too concerned about her waking up at the exact time every day or going to sleep at the exact time every day as it's usually within 30 mins and I'm usually home or on my way home due to sleep so can put her down at the appropriate time. Anyway, my reason for posting this was that the best thing I've down since I stated getting the 2-1 nap signals is follow tired cues and offer 2 naps on days she needs it, and one nap on days she can cope with it. I only got longer 'one nap days' when doing this as she was nicely rested to do it and not ot. Until she can cope with one nap every day and then am hoping for a set time. I think my dd seems to do the 13.5 hours of sleep she needs at the times when she needs it, and some days certain activities and concentrating on certain skills tires her out earlier than other activities - just like us really, so makes sense :) hth
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The amt of daytime sleep shouldn't make much of a difference, not like when they were infants. Her body is pretty good at moderating. Plus, the goal of the 2 nap day is just to help her get over the OT from the previous 1 nap day! We're just biding time until her A time is consistently long enough to handle only 1 nap a day. Right now she's flirting with it -- almost able, but not quite which is why we have to switch back and forth.
For us, what happened is we had to start alternating 1 and 2 nap days. Gradually my son was able to do two 1 nap days in a row, and then a 2 nap. Finally he just seemed ready for a 1 nap day! I still had to offer 2 naps during illness or teething, but for the most part he was good to go on 1 nap! Every child is different; some adjust to 1 nap immediately; others need a more gradual approach like my son. In my opinion, it is essentially dependent on how sensitive your child is to getting OT. Some kids can be OT and still sleep thru the night! God, how I wish I had one of those! ;D
I think you're doing great! You're probably just going to have to be prepared for days that don't go well. We had a lot of those, and it was tough for me because I work at home while my son slept and I was used to a kid who very reliably had 2 hour long naps. Not knowing whether it would be a 1 or 2 nap day was very frustrating! But as I mentioned before, it was a relatively short-lived period - month or so - adn then 1 nap was just bliss.
Also, you may have 11 hour nights for awhile, but it's far from permanent. My son was a consistent 11.5 hour night sleeper for about the first 2-3 months of the transition. Then it became a solid 12 hours. Then, after he turned 2, he started having 13 hour nights and 2 hour naps! :o Those were the 2 year molar months. Now, 8 months later he appears to be going back to 11.5-12 hour nights and 2 hour naps. So, I guess I'm saying 11 hours may be the trend for now, but it is definitely not the end of changes! ;)
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Hi everyone. Well, she had a fantastic nap today. 2 hours and 20 minutes!! Just one nap. I was going to put her down at 10am and she just didn't seem all that tired (even though she woke at 6am). I did put her in bed at 10am and she just screamed, which is VERY abnormal at naptime. So, I got her up and gave her lunch at 11 and put her down shortly after. She went right to sleep! She woke at 1:50! Then for bedtime I put her in bed at 7:15 and she didn't fall asleep till 7:55. :( 40 minutes. :( Don't know what went wrong with that. I suppose OT but she wasn't acting tired at all. And it had been 5 hours 25 min of A time since end of nap.
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Ugghh...a 10 hour night. :( She woke at 6:10 am and went to sleep just before 8 last night. :( Don't know if has anything to do with her long, 2 hour 20 minute nap yesterday. Or if it's just one of those 'off' nights. Don't 10 hour night usually mean OT? It's just so frustrating b/c she was not showing any signs of OT last night before bed. In fact, I just went with clock times b/c of that.
This might end up being a 2 nap day b/c of the 10 hour night. We shall see. Gosh, do I dislike this inconsistency!
ETA: Just wanted to say "Thank you" to everyone who continues to follow along with my posts and give advice! I appreciate all the encouragement! :)
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Hugs. Don't feel discouraged she will be on one long nap eventutally and go to sleep quickly. I could have written you post a two weeks ago as ds was not only taking 30-40 min to fall asleep but needed me to hold his hand. And of course you know our history of EWs and the 2-1 nap transistion. Anyway I decide to stop it by doing wi/wo and sticking to a consistent nap and bedtimes. After 2 days, he is napping 2+hrs and 11.5hrs at night. I NEVER thought that he would do it.
Hugs again.
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Ok, I've been listening to DH and my mom telling me that we need to stick with one nap to avoid confusion, now that we attempt it most days... but I need to trust my gut and go with 2 naps sometimes still. We started the switch about a month ago, but he's becoming sooo OT. The one nap isn't easy at all - he's been waking at 40 minutes, and today he cried hard at the 40 minute mark until I went in and rubbed his back until he went back asleep (which I just did). Now I'm waiting for the next 40 minute mark... Yesterday, I had to rock him to tack on some more nap time, primarily because we were going to the in-laws for a birthday party last night and I knew we'd have a late night (which we did). Anyway, he's been sick and teething and now being OT is just the straw that broke the camel's back. I just have to suck it up and disagree with DH and my mom and tell them they can tell me "I told you so" if the 2 naps tomorrow backfire...
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momtothomas -- follow your mommy's instinct! My DH's solution during the rought 2-1 transition was "we need to wear him out more." ::) Um, yeah, that never works dude. I read 50 books on sleep, had Owen sleeping so well up until the transition and he suddenly decides he knows how it should go! :P Whatever. Do what you know is right. There are tons of kids who need to alternate 2 and 1 naps for a while until their A time stretches. And as I've said before, they really grow quickly into the A time. You'll probably only have this chaotic schedule for 1-4 weeks.
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Hi mommies! Back to update on our day. Well, she was definetly a bit tired or cranky or teeth hurt (so hard to tell these days!!) by 10am this morning (woke at 6:10) and I went to put her in bed and she totally protested again. So weird! I wonder if it's b/c dh is home and around and she's playing a lot with him and doing stuff. So, we waited till after lunch and put her down at 11:25 and she was out in 10 minutes. But only slept 1.5 hours. :( Plan was to get in bed early...didn't happen. Went to inlaws for dinner and always end up staying too late. She was in bed at 6:45pm and fell asleep at about 7:05. So, not horribly late, and she didn't take too long to go down. Now we shall see what lies for tomorrow! :) It seems that she can just about hold out till the 5 hour A mark if she's kept busy and entertained. But her length of sleeping is always inconsistent. Both today and yesterday she went to sleep for nap at the exact same time (and woke at the same time both mornings) and yesterday she slept over 2 hours and today 1.5 hours. But from everything you all have taught me, this is pretty normal, so I'm not going to worry too much.
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it sounds like you are doing ok, and as pp said, this inconsistency will only last a few weeks at most. we are having more consistent naps now, and with a bit earlier bedtime things have gotten somewhat better. still working at it though, but for sure it is MUCH better than those first few switch days. i thought i was going to go out of my mind when things were totally askew those few days, so i am sending you more encouraging hugs!!!!! you are doing a GREAT job and once the 1 nap is sorted, you will be so relieved!
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Momtothomas, I too would follow your gut. Remember they often need their sleep to grow, rest so they can concentrate of developing skills and I've seen 'tired' children become fussy eaters because of being tired at mealtimes. It can become a vicious cycle, the ot cycle, and also children, like adults, can become run down and sick if lacking sleep. Even when we switch finally to one sleep I will still give 2 if my dd is sick, or genuinely needs it. They are just like us and if we lack sleep over a period of time we create a sleep debt too, become cranky, irritable and sometimes run down - well I know I do!!! I also believe that good day sleep gets good night sleep, well that seems to be the case for us. We've had 3 very different days, Sat was one nap of 1 hour plus a 40 minute nap in the pm at 4.40pm! Bedtime still 7pm and asleep for the night in 10 mins til 6.45am, up at 7am. Back in bed that morning at 9.40am til 10.30am, then back asleep at 2.45pm - 4pm, asleep at 7pm til exactly 6.30am but resting and chatting in cot til 7am. I've just now put her to bed at 11.15am and if she doesn't do more than 1.30 mins then I will have to sneak in the 20 minute catnap at around 4.45pm which for us seems to work better than an early night. I will do the early night though if I can see no luck with the catnap. I only like to put her in the cot when I know she is going to sleep, don't want to start bad habits of 'fighting sleep'. I appreciate reading Becky's post about how this transition might only be a month or so... Every day for us is a little bit different but because my days generally have certain activities on certain days I can kind of predict when the one nap days will happen etc (not that they are one nap days, but a longer activity time in the morning and quick catnap) - maybe today she will do a big 2 hour sleep! Fingers crossed...
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We got our first 12 hour night (in a long time!). :) I think she was just making up from the previous 10 hour night and only 1.5 hour nap yesterday. At least we made it to 12 though! LOL! :) Today will definetly be a one nap day as she slept 'in' till 7:10. Going to plan on nap around noon and bed at 7pm. Hope it works well!!
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Ok ladies, need some advice for tonight. Yesterday dd had a great nap...2 hours 20 minutes. But...she only slept 10 hours last night. OT?? She went to bed late 8pm and was up just before 6am. :( Today she napped 1 hour 45 minutes (11:30-1:15). Do I do a somewhat early bedtime to make up for last night's loss? Maybe 6:30?? That would be just over 5 hours of A time.
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At this age, I would do my best to keep A times just under 5 hours, especially during the nap transition. Anything over 5 will usually cause problems.
My guess is you did a late bedtime to compensate for long nap? Even with a long nap like that I'd try to have her in bed at 4.5 hours A time (so that falls asleep by 5 hours A time max). I still do that with my 2.5 yo son, and it works a treat! 10 hour nights are absolutely from being OT.
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Becky, yes that is what I did. :( I always "assume" that since she can go 5-5.5 hours in the morning between waking and nap that she should/can do it in the afternoons. I tend to worry that if I put her down too early she won't be tired enough and will take forever to fall asleep. I will definetly have her in bed by 6:30 and most likely earlier. :) We're off to gym class, anyways, so she's going to be wiped from that.
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We got another 12 hour night!! But...was it due to the fact that she slept only 10 hours the night before??? Hmmm. Ok, here's something I noticed: we've had two 12 hour nights in the past week or so. Both nights she had 10 hour nights before, but both nights she was also in bed and asleep by 7pm. So....coincidence or does she need to be in bed and asleep by 7?? Maybe I'll try it tonight and see how it goes. :)
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I would definitely say in bed and asleep by 7! That's a really good time for kids at this age. Definitely worth a shot!
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certainly asleep by 7pm makes a HUGE difference here. the nights we miss that mark are much shorter and often result in shorter naps the next day due to OT........we have been consciously trying to do earlier bed, although it is really hard.
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Ugghhh, she was in bed at 6:45pm and didn't fall asleep till 7:15 and then...get this...woke at 5:40am! What the heck?!?! Actually, might be here 2 bottom eye teeth that are close to coming thru. :( But still. :( Do I try for a short am nap today around 9ish?? We have a gym class at 10 that I really don't want to have to miss since that's our one planned activity today. Or do I just push her till we get home and she eats and then goes down at normal time around 11:30?? I suppose I can just try for the am nap and see. AHHHH!! So frustrating!!
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With a 5:40 waking, a very short nap (15 min) around 9 should be good. It's good you have an activity because that will help her be tired for a 2nd nap today.
Teeth are a complicating factor! And unfortunately, a lot of kids are teething while going thru this transition. There's nothing you can do but wait for those teeth to come in and do your best to get your child the sleep they need. Just keep reminding yourself this is temporary. Just b/c she's waking at 5:40 now doesn't mean she will continue to do so for the rest of her life. ;) Every day she's able to stretch her A time just a little bit more, and those teeth come closer to coming thru. You'll probably just suddenly have a day where the teeth are thru and she has a longer A time, and then sleep will be awesome again! Honestly, I think these phases are hardest for BW moms because we're used to being able to tweak things and make them better. And sometimes kids just have to go thru stuff, no tweaking can fix it all the way. But it's temporary! Remember that!
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Thanks Becky, but the nap was a no go this morning. :( Ah well. Watcha gonna do?!? I gave her 25 minutes and she still wasn't sleeping so I got her up and we left for her class. Came home, had lunch and she's asleep now at 11:45, so we shall see how long it lasts. Hopefully, it won't backfire! Definetly an early bedtime tonight!
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crossing my fingers for you!
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Just to update: 1.5 nap yesterday (11:40-1:10). In bed at 6:45p (too late again...i know). Didn't fall asleep till 7:15pm and up at 6am. :( We'll see how today goes. I really really have to stop being nervous about in bed and asleep by 6:30p. Which in dd's case means in bed by 6:10p since it's taking her 20+ minutes to fall asleep at night. I 'might' try a 20 minute nap at 9:30/10 and see if she'll catch up. If not, we have nothing going on tonight, so she needs to be in bed early! It's just so hard b/c dh gets home around 5:45p and he's like "what?!?! she's going to bed already?" :(
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maybe you could just try 2 or 3 nights into the weekend where you put her down at 6....it is so hard to give in to the early bedtimes, but a few days to get back on track and then you will be able to extend those naps and push bedtime out 15 mins at a time. we are workign on the same things and it is so hard. we missed the 'bedtime' window by less than 10 minutes last night and suffered for it......i was so angry at myself but it is hard work. hang in there. huge hugs!
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I agree with PP -- if getting her to bed that early is a problem, save it for the weekends. And honestly, that doesn't sound like *that* bad of a night or EW. You're getting VERY close to the finish line. Another week or two, and I think she's going to be able to make it on 1 nap consistently!
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becky is so right! hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ok, this is very puzzling to me. Maybe one of you ladies can help me understand. Why is it that between waking and naptime dd has 5-5.5 hours of A time and she will go to sleep within 10 minutes of me putting her in bed? But when it comes to bedtime she still has 5-5.5 hours of A time and it takes her 35 minutes (on average) to fall asleep? I really don't understand that. If it's OT, then why is it not that way in the morning for nap?
Also, how soon before bedtime do you feed your lo's dinner? DH thinks her taking a long time to settle and fall asleep at night is due to us feeding her too close to bedtime. But I feed her lunch within 30 minutes of nap and it's not an issues. Normally, she gets dinner at 6, bath at 6:30 and in bed by 6:50-7 (the latest). She seems to really get energized with dinner. Should I do dinner earlier, maybe around 5:30?
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i would say she is OT at bedtime...but think about it, she has 12 hours sleep (or so) before a 5.5 hour play, then only 1.5-2 hours sleep for another 5 hour play. that last play of the day should be shorter logically..... at least, that's how i see it, my get-up-and-go is always better in the morning than evenign when i am getting tired. could be that she is getting tired but not showing cues, and then it is too late, so she is OT and struggling to fall asleep. that is what happens here.
to answer the dinner question, we do dinner around 5:15 or so and it lasts until 6 pm, then bed before 7. lunch is immediately before potties and nap. only thing i would wonder if the OT doesn't settle out in the next week or two is if something she eats at dinner winds her up a bit. i know the other night we had friends in and friend's dh gave my guys bites of the cake we were eating. they had a hard tiem settling that night,a nd i think it is because they had sugar so close to bed. is she having fruit for dessert or something sweet that might be winding her up? my sister always said her boys could never have juice after 3pm if she wanted them to go to bed on time because they were susceptible to the natural sugars in juice.
HUGE hugs to you! you are doing great! if you thought it coudl fit your routine, you could just try a bit earlier dinner to see if that helps and then give her 20 minutes to run and play before bath, just to get the energy out!
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Thanks momtonb&ab, totally makes sense! I was not thinking of it like that. :)
Ok, back to some advice.....We had a very early waking today 5:30 and she would not go back to sleep. :( I am definetly doing a morning nap since she's super crabby. However, do I only let her do a quick (20-30 min) nap or a long (as long as she sleeps) nap? It's a total gamble either way and I'm not really sure which way it'll work out better.
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i wouldn't go back to a long morning nap ever. just the catnap if she really needs it - but somehow i think it would mess with her little internal clock to have a long morning nap after so many days of not having one. how about a ride in the car around 9 am that will get her just 20 mins or so??? that used to work for us. :)
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I agree with PP -- stick to a short AM nap only from here on out. It really will pay off. I know it feels counterintuitive -- believe me, I was dragged kicking and screaming to the short AM nap camp! ;D But after I joined up, our NW/EW problems disappeared. Surprised the heck out of me because my son loves his sleep and I thought there is NO way that he will be satisfied with 20 minutes in the AM! But it worked a charm and got us into the 1 nap arena safe and sound.
You truly are heading towards the finish line, even though it doesn't seem like it. The way this goes is she's going to surprise you one day by doing 1 nap easily and then the next day she'll be fine again! Pretty soon you'll have more 1 nap days then you ever thought possible! It's not far off, I promise! :)
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I'm still lurking and reading this thread... Our days are quite streaky, and sound very similar to newmama12's. Some getting up early, then wondering if I should try and get DS to take a nap in the morning, but then things happen and I talk myself out of it or we just aren't home (no way will he sleep in the car), then the afternoon nap is usually only about an hour and a half, and then I try for an early bedtime. I try for 6:45, and that's do-able, but sometimes we miss it by a little and things start getting crappy again and we teeter on the edge of an OT cycle.
This is my formula for rough days:
Starting day care + CONSTANT cold (thanks to day care) + molars coming in + separation anxiety = wacky sleep patterns and one stressed out mommy!
I gotta figure out how to stress out about this less...
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So, I'm trying Becky's suggestion of the 20 minute nap in the am today... He woke up around 6:30, so at 9:30 I rocked him and told myself I'd let him squirm until 9:40, at which point I would have to figure he wasn't ready for a nap. He went to sleep at 9:39. I let him sleep 20 minutes and then woke him, which was really hard to do. But, I told myself, we gotta at least try it and see how it goes! Since he got up at 10:00 after his 20 minute nap, I guess I will try for his afternoon nap around 1 or 1:30?? (His usual one nap a day time is 12:00.)
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i would try closer to 12:30...remember, 6:30 to 1 is a really really long time, and that 20 minutes was more to make up for missed night sleep than to give him a longer nap time :) :)
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He went to sleep at 12:50, woke up at the 40 minute mark and squirmed, and ended up sleeping an hour and a half total, so he got up around 2:25. That's the same length of nap he usually takes (at home) when it starts around 12. (It's often longer at daycare.) So, we're aiming for bedtime around 7. Keeping my fingers crossed... (DH is reading to him, but I'm about to go in and do some reading and the actual putting down, which is our normal routine.)
So stressful!
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You know, I might just try the 20 minute am catnap tomorrow. We are still having difficulties falling asleep at night. She's been in bed 45 minutes and still not asleep (not crying though, just rolling around trying to get comfy or whatever). It's also now 7:45pm!! BAD!! :(
Here's the logic: she's napping basically 11:30-1pm or 11:45-1:15 this leaves for a very LONG afternoon. If we're going to A time, she should be in bed for the night by 5:45-6pm. That's just a tad difficult. 6:30 is usually our earliest. I figure if I can get her to do 20 min in the morning and then push the 2nd nap to about 12:30 or so and she sleeps 1.5 hours then it'll be 2 and she can easily go 2-6:30/7 (the latest).
What do you guys think? I might just have to give it a shot tomorrow!
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i think you have identifed your problem in that the afternoon A time is just too long. to make the nap time work as is, you are right, bed would need to be 6pm. if that doesn't work, then the catnap is probably just what you need.
let us know how it goes.
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newmama12 - I think we are leading parallel lives at the moment. My reason for trying the 20 min am catnap is exactly the same - to try and push the 1.5 hour nap to 12:30 or so. I too can't make bedtime too much earlier than 6:30. It seemed to work ok during the day yesterday, and he went to sleep much easier last night at 7:00... but he woke up really upset around 10:45. I had to go in and lay him back down and rub his back a few minutes. He then woke up fussing around 1:30, 2:45, 4:30, and 5:30, at which point he squirmed off and on until I got him up at 6:40. All those times in the night, he'd just cry for about 15 seconds and then go back to sleep, so I never even thought about going in or messing with him. It just breaks my heart that he was tired or uncomfortable or whatever and had such a restless night. We're going to do the catnap again this morning (Monday), but Tues-Thurs he's at daycare, so it's out of my hands.
I'm just so tired of dealing with sleep issues. We've been doing it for 16 months. If I complain about it too much, people say, "Hey, it could be a lot worse!" I totally agree and understand, but it's all relative, you know? When I feel like part of this is my fault, it makes it a zillion times worse. My mom says I'm stressing for no reason, that DS has inherited my sleep patterns (apparently I wasn't a big fan of sleep). Still, I can't help wishing I could figure this crap out. Control freak in me coming out...
Anyway, I just had to vent. I really hope the 20 minute catnap didn't mess up our night. I seriously doubt it did, so I'm trying it again... I just miss the days when nights weren't stressful (just naps)!
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Momtothomas, so sorry about his nw's last night. Yes, sounds exactly like our lo's are doing very similar things with this dang 2-1 switch. Grrr!! I know that my dd is getting both her bottom "I" teeth and that is (most likely) a huge factor is our sleep issues right now. I also believe she might be feeling her 2 year molars b/c she sometimes chews on her fingers way in the back of her mouth. So...double whammy here.
Last night took her almost an hour to fall asleep, so she slept from about 7:50pm-barely 6am. :( I'm going to try for a 20 minute nap around 9:30/9:45 if she'll go for it. If not, I might try again around 10 b/c she does fairly well with 4-4.5 hours of A, but I can't push it much past 10 or she won't nap till way after 1 and for today that won't work as I have drs appt at 3pm. We shall see how it goes. Hopefully, it'll go well for your ds today!
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Alright ladies, I'm going for 2 naps today. Wish us luck! She fell asleep at 9:55am and I will let her nap till 10:15. What time do I try for a 2nd nap? I have to leave here at 2:15 for an appt so, hopefully, she won't give me any trouble with the 2nd nap. I was thinking of putting her down right around 12:15. Then maybe she'll sleep from 12:30-2, hopefully. Sound good or sound too early??
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if you got a 20 minute nap, put her down between 12:00 and 12:15.....that will give you a 2 hour window. if she doesn't sleep well, promise yourself a really early night. (like 6pm since 2:15 - 6:15 is 4 hours after a short nap day).....
just be sure to wake her after the 20 mins (if that time hasn't passed already this morning, i don't know what time zone you are in. :)
hang in there....
and momtothomas....i hear you on the wishing sleep would improve. if it is any consolation whatsover, after this nap switch is sorted out (and really, it takes 1 month of hard hard work, then another month of inconsistency) you will have 80 or 90% good nights. the crying out you mention from your little one last night sounds like tooth pain. do you have any molars coming in? that is what ds does when the molars are putting pressure under the gum? a bit of oragel or advil seems to make a big difference.
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Well, so far so bad. I was worried this would happen. She's totally protesting the 2nd or just isn't ready yet. This is the biggest reason why we switched to 1 nap (and why I haven't gone back to 2). She's been in bed playing for 30 minutes now. :( Grrrr!! So frustrating!
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Backfired on us today as well... 2nd nap was only one hour. Looks like we'll be trying for a 6-6:30 bedtime, then it's off to daycare tomorrow for one nap at 12:00.
momtonb&ab, yes he's got molars coming in. They've been coming in for almost 2 months now (these are the top, the bottom ones came in a while back). To top it off, his cold isn't getting any better after a month of being in daycare.
YUCK!
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At least you got an hour nap, I got 20 minutes the ENTIRE day. I kid you not! She totally refused. Apparently, I have a very stubborn, spirited toddler on my hands! LOL! It's 4:40pm, she's been up since 6am with only a 20 minute nap from 9:55-10:15. I can't believe it! So, we are going to be in bed by 6:15pm the absolute latest.
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Perhaps our kiddos have decided that no matter how tired it makes them, they only want to mess around with one nap from now on...
I'm about to go take over the reading and put DS to bed, but the storms rolling through here are crazy and the thunder is super loud. That always makes for an interesting bedtime! We're shooting for 6:30 as well... we'll see how it goes! Best of luck to you and keep us posted.
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Got her in bed at 6:15 and it's 6:25 and she is OUT!!! Hopefully, she'll do 12 hours and not wake up at like 5 in the morning. Good luck to you guys tonight. J sleeps thru storms...thank goodness! Are you guys in the USA? We have storms too here. I'm in Illinois.
I totally agree with you and I think our kiddos definetly only want to do one nap! This was exactly our issue, oh, about 5 weeks ago. I was transitioning her and would let her nap for 30 minutes in the morning but then she started refusing the pm nap. I guess from now on either I need to push her till noon, which she probably can do, although she will be super tired. Then hope she sleeps from 12-2. Or I need to get her to bed at 6:15 every night till she can handle the long afternoons.
Let me know how bedtime goes!
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He was asleep by 6:35 and I didn't hear a peep out of him all night until around 6:10 this morning (we never get 12 hour nights, so I'm always hoping for at least 11 or 11.5). Much better than the night before! Of course, with his teething and his cold/congestion, it's hard to know exactly which conditions made him want to sleep better last night.
We are going to do the same thing - one nap at noon, hoping it lasts until 2. Most days it doesn't, so we just have to aim for an early bedtime of 6:30ish until this lovely transition is over!
Yes, we're in the US, but down in Georgia. The storms actually helped last night because it was so super dark that he might have thought it was later than it really was.
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^^YAY!! You guys had a great night!! So did we!!! :) J slept from 6:25pm-7:00am!!! This is rare for us to as she hardly ever does 12 hours, let alone 12.5! Normally, it's 11 exactly. So, today I'll do nap between 12-12:30 and hopefully she'll do 2 hours. If not, we'll do a 6:30 bedtime too.
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Wow! 12.5 hrs - that's great! It's 12:45 in Georgia, so I'm sending "take a good nap" thoughts to DS at daycare and your DD!
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sounds like you both had good nights, that is great......i think the one nap is more and more what you both need....it will get better, hang in there and don't be afraid of early bedtime!!!!!!!!!!
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Alright ladies, what do I do for bedtime.....She napped 1.5 hours (12:30-2pm). Do I still go with an early bedtime at about 6:30, which is 4.5 A time or do I go 5 hours of A and a 7pm bedtime? With a 7pm bedtime, I worry she'll be OT and take 30-45 minutes to fall asleep and then it's 7:45. :( So, maybe go with 6:30 and if we're lucky she's sleeping by 7 the latest if there's no OT issues??
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i would suggest in bed by 6:30 at the latest...even 6:15 if you can. she needed 2 hours or more this aft, so take 30 mins off bedtime for sure, and then because she has been taking a bit of a while to fall asleep, well, i would give yourself an extra 15 minutes early to be sure she has enough time to wind down. remember, she won't go to bed at 6:15 for ever, this is just until she gets better sleeps and better nights.....hang in there. but my recommendation is 6:15 so she can talk if she needs to, and asleep between 6:30 and 7.
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1.5 hours is still pretty good, at least at our house it is! I agree that a 6:30 bedtime would be good, and a 6:15 one better. If DS was fortunate enough to have slept 1.5 hours at daycare, I can't get him to bed much earlier than about 6:30 anyway, no matter what time he got up from his nap! Ugghh, the joys of working 3 days a week. I won't know how his day was until I pick him up here in a little while... Best of luck to you tonight, though!
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Ugh, I have a complaint about daycare... DS slept from 12 to 1:30, but his teacher said he got up at 1:30 because everyone else was up and playing!?! Aaarrgghh! It bothers me that he probably would have slept longer if he wasn't there. Sometimes I feel like all my hard "work" is for nothing, since Tues-Thurs I have no control over what happens with his sleep schedule.
Anyway, last night he didn't go to sleep as easily as the night before. He wasn't fussy, just SUPER squirmy. He finally went to sleep at 6:45, only to wake up around 8:10 and squirm for an hour. He just kept sitting up and flopping all over. Never crying, but I have a video monitor, so I watched him try to go back to sleep that whole time. I'm glad he tries all by himself (most the time), but I wish I knew what to do to help him. I also think, "Wow, if I only had a regular monitor, I would just assume he was asleep!" I'd wonder why he seemed tired! Then again, I would probably stress less about all of it... A double-edged sword, I guess. Anyway, he didn't make a peep all night. I woke up at 6:00 and it was quiet, so I flipped on the monitor screen, hoping he was sleeping, and he was standing up! I guess he had just gotten up though, because he hadn't started his morning routine of asking for ma ma just yet...
newmama12, how was your night?
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Momtothomas, so sorry about daycare. That has to be tough! I'm assuming they all sleep in the same room at the same time?
Hmmm...wonder why he woke at 8?? Is he teething? J is cutting both her bottom eye teeth. I FINALLY see the white spots so I know they're close. Cannot wait till those little buggers are thru! They have been the worst.
At least he went back to sleep on his own. That's really important. We have a video monitor too and I LOVE it! J will sometimes wake in the middle of the night and I'll hear her turn on her music thingy and she'll be sitting there and the go back to sleep. Weird, but whatever! At least, she's not crying.
Yesterday when I posted, I posted too soon. By the time I finished writing that she slept 1.5 hours I looked up at the monitor and she was laying down and sleeping again. So, she slept 2 hours! Woke at 2:30 and she was in bed at 6:55 and asleep at 7:20. 25 minutes is really good for her! I bet I could have put her down at 6:30 and she would have been good to go then. She woke at 6:30 this morning, so 11 hours. Actually, she may have even been up earlier but not making any noise. Normally, she talks or plays with her music stuff but I didn't hear it at all this morning. I turn down the volume real low on the monitor b/c I'm a light sleeper and will wake whenever I hear her. I turned on the monitor around 6:35 and she was up, so I think she had just woken.
Anyways, she fell asleep for nap at 11:45am. We'll see how long she naps for. Most likely will be in bed by 6:30 the latest tonight. She was super cranky this morning. I don't know if it's her teeth or if she was really tired or what. How's nap today for you?
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Yes, he's got top molars coming in (still - it's been 2 or 3 months of this). I don't think he woke because of pain, because he usually cries if that's the case. Who knows though, I'm just glad he wasn't upset enough to cry. Are the "eye teeth" the canines?
I have mixed feelings about my video monitor. My mom says she bets I slept a whole lot less than she thought I did, since she didn't have a monitor to look at. I tell myself that my friends who think their kids sleep so much just may not be as aware of their kids' sleeping patterns as I am of Thomas's! Again, that may or may not be a good thing...
Sounds like our mornings were similar. And congrats on the 2 hour nap! I think Thomas could have slept longer, but yes, they're all in the same room napping together. As for today's nap, I won't know until I pick him up in about 3 hours. Good luck to your little one today!
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Hey there! How was his day at daycare yesterday? And your night? Hope it was decent!
J did (yet another!) 2 hour nap yesterday. I am not holding my breath, as it's most likely a fluke. Teething or something. (She's actually been sneezing a bit yesterday and now this morning. I really hope she's not getting a cold). I think I got her in bed too late last night. :( She napped from 11:45-1:45 and she was in bed at 7pm, but didn't fall asleep till 7:30 and then up at 5:50 this morning! Too early as she is a bit cranky!! I think I should have had her in bed by 6:30pm. I thought she could handle the longer pm, but apparently she can't. So, we'll see how today goes.
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DS was apparently falling asleep during his lunch at daycare, but then when they finished eating, he was awake again and didn't go to sleep until 12:45. He slept 1.5 hours, until 2:15. He was asleep last night by 6:45 and got up at 6 this morning. I'm beginning to think he's just programmed to sleep until 6:00, no matter what time he goes to bed.
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hey momtothomas....if you think he is a 6 am waker, try a few days of bed at 6, wake at 6 and see if his naps are better.....it may not be practical to always put him down at 6, but if you did a few days of 6 to 6, naps might sort themselves out and then you could work on wake2sleep to get to 6:30 or 7 wake up, thus making bedtime later.....
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I would like to get him to bed earlier, but unfortunately a 6:00 bedtime isn't very feasible most days. I don't think I could get a few days of it in a row... (Especially this weekend - we have to go to a nearby state park for my company "retreat", so we'll be up there all day Saturday and spending the night, so naps and bedtime will be ALL SORTS of screwed up... but I'm sure I'll whine about the results of the trip in a few days here on the message boards). Anyway, I might could try that starting at the end of next week, but if I tried for a 6:00 bedtime on the days I work in the office, we'd basically have to completely skip dinner!
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I sincerely appreciate the suggestion and help, though! Thanks. :)
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Ok ladies here's my question of the day: Yesterday J took a 2 hour midday nap (11:45-1:45). I 'assumed' she could do 5 hours in the pm and didn't put her in bed till 7. She did not fall asleep till 7:30 and then woke at 5:50 this morning. :( So my question is: if she's taking 1.5-2 hours of a nap at midday how many hours of A should she have? In the mornings she does 5-5.5 (max) before nap. I know she was OT as this morning has been awful here. Just whining and crying and fits. I held her out till 11:30 b/c I didn't want her to nap too early and then really be cranky this afternoon. She went to sleep in less than 5 minutes. Hopefully, she'll do 2 hours, but then what time is bed? 6:30 in bed or asleep by 6:30 which means in bed at 6:15?? Not really sure how much A time she should be getting post nap.
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asleep by 6:15 based on what you are saying, even 6 since she had such an early morning (think 12 hour day no matter what)...
actually, this might help you, it has helped us.
instead of thinking of A time post nap at this age, think of 12 hour day, and A time in the morning. So wake, 5 or 5.5 hours of A time, nap, then in bed 12 hours from wake up time ...the only caveat is that if they have a nap less than 2 hours, then take that time off bed time. so for J who woke at 5:50 the day would be a bit like this...
5:50am wake
11:30 am nap (assuming 5.5 A time)
1 pm wake (assuming bad nap, only 1.5 hours for example)
5:30 bed (6 pm would have been 12 hours, but she was 30 mins shy of the 2 hour nap, so 5:30)
I know you are both rolling your eyes at the early bedtime, and it is extreme, but if you peruse the nap boards, the theory is that you would only have to do this for a little while to prevent OT while they learn to sleep longer in the day, which will improve night sleep and you get back to a more realistic wake and bed time.
hth a bit. we are just on the tail end of that and to be honest with you, we still have nights where they need to be in bed by 6:15 and it is hard, because that is just too early. but if we don't do it, we get even more out of whack...it's a balance of what you can do versus what you can accept in terms of bad naps/nights.
hang in there.
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I'm not rolling my eyes at the early bedtime at all... I just can't get him in bed by 6 most nights because I can't get him home from daycare, feed him and get him ready for bed by then. I am certainly not willing to just accept crappy sleep just to put him down a little later. If I could bust my butt any more on the days I worked out of the home, I would, but I can't! There's only so much time in the day, and 3 days a week I have no choice but to work. DH got a new job and has to leave earlier, so now I do the drop off on those days, and it's killing me. Combine that with the fact that I KNOW I need to get him to bed early but just can't... well, I am swallowing my fair share of guilt.
Our day/night has been awful, by the way. He only slept 45 minutes at daycare, partially because his regular teacher wasn't in there at the end of his first sleep cycle, and the fill in person just got him up when he woke up crying (already OT). I gave him a super fast dinner, and turned out the light at 6:05. He couldn't seem to get settled, and he wouldn't stop crying, even if I was holding him. He got so upset he sounded like he was going to throw up. I finally got him calmed down and he went to sleep at 9:00. He slept 45 minutes and is now up crying again BIG TIME. He has medicine in him, so he's not in pain - just SO overtired he can't stand it.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I'm off to attempt to calm him down, even though he will probably just get more upset with me in there. This sucks big time.
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He didn't fall asleep for the night until 12:05 am. Fantastic.
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oh Mom to thomas, i am so sorry you ahd such a terrible night.
i sure do hope you didn't take my 'advice' as some kind of criticism......i think you are doing a great job and with work and everything, you are doing your absolute best! all i was hoping to convey is that that routine i posted would be the ideal siutation for resolving the overtired bit, so as close as you can get to it will be most helpful. hang in there, let us know how you are doing today. for what it is worth, the kind of unseltted night you just had in our house would usually be a precursor to illness or some signifcant milestone.
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Ding ding ding! You are correct in guessing that illness was the culprit of the awful night we had! I took DS to the pediatrician this morning, and he has a super bad ear infection in both ears. She said on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the worst), both ears are at about a 9. So, with the help of antibiotics, pain meds and understand, we hope to have a better night tonight! Today has already been better.
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poor little guy, and poor mommy. get well wishes comign your way !!!!!
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Oh my goodness! Poor Thomas. :( Glad you found out what was wrong. Sending lots of get well hugs and I hope you have a much better night.
J didn't take all that long of a nap today. Barely 1.5 hours and was up by 1:05pm. Got her in bed at 6:35pm but she didn't fall asleep till about 7:10. OT?? Probably should have had her in bed by 6:15. Grrr...so hard to figure these things out. Hopefully, she'll do at least 11 hours.
Wishing everyone else a good night's sleep!
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Ugghhh!! The past 2 days her naps have gotten shorter! What the heck?!?! I've been putting her down at the exact same time (between 11:30-11:45am) and she's only sleeping an hour 15 max! She had been doing 1.5-2 hours before. Today she went to sleep at 11:55 and is now up at 1:10. Am I going to have to do a 6pm bedtime now?? She was up at 6:30 this morning.
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i would say as close to 6 pm as you can get, but remember, that is 5 hours A time at teh end of the day,s he may need to go down even earlier. don't be afraid of 5:30 if it will stave off OT
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^^Thanks! I do think her short nap is definetly from being OT. The was very cranky and tired and yawning around 10:30, but I was way too nervous to put her down, even for a short nap b/c I did it earlier this week and it totally backfired. She napped 20 minutes in the am and then totally refused the pm. So, I just kept her up until she was OT. :( So hard to get it right! I am definetly planning on a 6pm bedtime tonight.
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sounds like a plan.....hang in there....it's hard work this stage. keep an eye on her, if you see her tiring early, do hurry up offence and quick bedtime routine, even 5:30 or 5:45 if you have to. the earlier she is asleep the better (and longer) night you will have....
huge hugs to you both!!
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Hi newmama, I haven't posted recently as we're still holding on to two naps most days but the other day I had to give her one nap as we were going to be out in the afternoon and she did her usual 1.20 mins from 11.45 - 1pm and she was fine all afternoon as we were out but when I got home at 5pm she was really upset when going into the high chair and I quickly realised that she was really tired, so I persevered with the dinner, tried to put on a baby einstein dvd to distract but even that didn't work so gave her her bottle and ran the bath. All through this she was crying, cried through her bath (never does this) and kept looking at me as if 'please put me to bed'. We basically rushed dinner, bottle, bath, pj's, story all in 3o mins and she was in bed by 5.40pm. I had never ever done this before - the earliest I have done is 6.30 and I think once I did 6.15pm. My husband came home from walking the dog and I said she was asleep and he laughed (he totally understood) and said oh well, guess we'll just get up early. Well, she slept from 5.40pm - 6.30pm so I will not be afraid of the early bedtime. I don't want to make a habit of doing that but on the days where I have to do one sleep I think that might be my plan now. I haven't had much luck with the 20 min cat nap because I couldn't wake her from her am sleep, and the late pm catnap is a bit hit and miss... Just thought I'd share that. Funnily enough she could have done with a very early bedtime yesterday as well as we were out in the afternoon and she had to nap at a friends house which was cut very short due to barking dogs and I put her to bed at 6.30 and she didn't do as much sleep as she did when I put her down at 5.40pm... Today we have, however had success with two naps so at least we can have a 7pm bedtime tonight...
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Hi Elf! Glad to know things are working with your 2 naps. We're still keeping with 1 and then early bedtime (although I have not been brave enough to put her down before 6:15pm).
How is everyone else? Our current issue is even shorter naps! LOL...things just keep getting better...LOL! NOT! :) Over the weekend she was only napping 1.15 hours. So, we'll see how today goes. The only good thing is that she's been sleeping 11-12 hours at night and waking up after 7:00am. So, that's nice, but this short one nap is not so good. I don't know if I'm missing the window now or if it's too early b/c nap time has been pushed back and hour b/c she's been sleeping 'in' later in the morning.
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Our schedules are non-existent at the moment... His double ear infections still won't go away, and now he's got a virus that's causing him to have sore blister-like patches on his throat. He's had a moderate to high fever for 3 days now. He's been miserable sometimes, but when the motrin is working, he's pretty ok. He got a shot of rocephin this morning, so maybe that will knock out the ear infections so his body can fight the virus. The only good thing about him being so sick is that he's taken super long naps the past few days while trying to rest. Yesterday it was 3 hours and 20 minutes, and today it's been 3 hours and 10 minutes. I'm just waiting for him to return to normal so we can start "battling" about naps again! You learn to appreciate the little things when they're feeling so puny. I can't wait for him to want to run around again and play like my usually rowdy little buddy.
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Oh my goodness. Poor Thomas. :( My mom had a virus like that a couple of months ago. Hopefully, his will go away quickly now with the meds. Poor little guy. Hugs to you both!
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Thanks. He slept 3 hrs 55 minutes, and the only reason he got up is because I woke him up!
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WOW! That's a great nap! Little guy needs it though so he can get better. How's he doing today?
I feel like we're regressing. For the past 4 days she's only been napping about an hour and 15 minutes. I have no idea why she's sleeping less now. She's also taking a bit longer (again) to fall asleep for the nap. Is she ot/ut? She's been waking later in the morning 6:45-7:15. So, I've been putting her down for a nap anytime between 11:45-12:15, thinking 5-5.5 hours like she was doing when she woke at 6am and napped at 11:30. And I thought we were finally getting somewhere....AHHHH!!
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He had a much more "normal" day today - 1 hr 30 min nap. It ended at 1:45, so I would have loved to have put him down at 6 or 6:30, but DH had an aunt visiting from out of town that came by at 5:30... ugh. He ended up asleep at 6:40, which is better than I expected! Of course, I had to be the nagging/annoying mom that said, "Y'all can stay if you want but Thomas is going to bed now" and take him upstairs. Anyway, he goes back to day care tomorrow, which should be interesting. He's been sleeping until 7:30 or 8:00 when sick, and tomorrow is time to wake him up at 6:30 again.
As for your little one, I would be doing the exact same thing. People here would probably say she's OT, but it could be anything... a milestone coming up, teeth, who knows!?! Just keep doing what you're doing, aim for an early bedtime, and keep on trying your best (which I know you are!)!!! I think we both have to remind ourselves to try not to stress out about it too much and enjoy our healthy, happy little ones as much as we can!
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Hi newmama, yes, holding on to two naps but really only just and to be honest it is very frustrating as I often feel as though I am just waiting for the 'tired signs' so I can put her down. The thing with us is that she can only really stay up around 3.5/4 hours in the morning but after her am sleep she can go and go and go... The other day she had her pm nap at 4.10pm and I woke her at 5.05 and I was lucky in that she did still go to bed at 7pm but to me it is not an ideal situation. This morning for the first time ever I woke her after 20 minutes of her am sleep. I actually hated doing it - she looked so peaceful in her cot and I woke her up and I really felt as though it took awhile for her to 'wake up'. Then I thought she would want to go back to sleep maybe 2.5 hours after... Well to cut a long story short she has only just gone to sleep now at 3.45pm (was up from am nap at 11.05am) The weird thing is if she had slept an hour this morning then she usually needs 4 hours and will do an hour in the pm, so maybe she got ot - who knows, she certainly wasn't crying or anything, just a little bit of eye rubbing which is her tired sign, I'm not sure how long she will sleep for now but I intend on leaving her as I know in the past even if she sleeps til 5pm she still goes to sleep at 7pm - geez I hope that is the case tonight!!!!!!!!! I think that the best scenario for us is a mid day sleep - and knowing that she will only probably do 1.15 mins because when I keep her up til 11.45pm she is a bit ot and I think that is why we get the 1.15 naps, but the other day when she did this and I then put her to bed at 5.40pm ( she was asleep the moment she went in the cot!) she slept til 6.30am and she was laughing in her cot when she woke - she was so well rested, who wouldn't be after 13 hours sleep! When I tried the one nap about a month ago I gave it 7 days but I think the mistake I made was not doing the early bedtime - think I did 6pm/6.30pm... so maybe that is the way to go for us until her body learns to sleep longer during the day. I think I had ot issues last time because she wasn't getting enough night sleep on top of a short nap and we created a vicious cycle. I know I should probably hold on to my two naps but some days they are a bit hit and miss, like yesterday she did an hour in the morning and 40 mins in the afternoon... dd really likes her sleep, so when she doesn't get enough she gets really cranky... The only thing I don't like about the early bedtime is that my husband will miss out on seeing her but in return maybe he will get a happier wife in the evening who doesn't talk about sleep! 5.30pm as a bedtime is really not ideal in our household but I feel as though I am driving myself crazy wondering when she will go to sleep! The other thing is sometimes she shows tired signs and I put her in the cot and she doesn't go asleep so I get her up and then put her down a bit later and she goes to sleep - again, really not ideal as I then feel as though I am constanly waiting for her to be tired again. This afternoon I had to pat her forehead to get her to sleep because I knew she was really tired and I don't like having to do that, especially when she is a good sleeper... Momtothomas - I agree with not stressing, I try not to as I adore and love the time I have with dd, and today I was smiling at her so much as she was enjoying herself (even though I was thinking - aren't you tired???) but because dd is so friendly and happy I want her to be on a mid day nap so she can be out and about in the mid morning and the afternoon with friends - when we go out all the babies of our age are sleeping! Maybe she will be one who won't be able to go to one nap until 18 months... Anyway, think I will see how she goes tonight and what time she wakes in the morning and might be tempted to try a mid day sleep tomorrow again... Don't get me wrong, I am very grateful for our happy, healthy daughter who sleeps well though the night and don't want to sound ungrateful - we've been on quite a predictable routine since birth so it's me that needs to chill out a bit more about it all :)
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Alright ladies, tell me what you think. This schedule (give or take 30 minutes) has been going on for almost a week now. Not sure what is up with it or why??
6:15am: wake
11:45-1:00 nap
6:30pm: in bed
7:15: asleep
This was yesterday:
6:20 wake
11:55-1:30 nap
6:55pm in bed
7:35pm asleep
I still can't figure out why she's back to taking 45 minutes to fall asleep at night and shorter naps. Previously, she was napping at leass 1.5 hours and mostly 1.75 hours. Yesterday, I got the 1.5 but for the past week it's barely been 1.15 hours. Is the 5 hour A time in the pm too much?? Today she was up at 6:10am (so she slept about 10.5 hours). If I get anything less than a 2 hour nap should she be in bed by 6pm??
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how is she? is she cranky? are you working to keep her awake until lunch time?
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She is cranky, crabby....but she has always been. LOL! Seriously, though, she is a fussy kid so sometimes it's hard to distinguish if she's tired, bored, teething, tired, etc.
In the morning, she starts yawning around 10 or so, but we have tried going back to 2 naps and it's a total no-go. She will not take a second nap at all. So, I keep her up till lunch around 11/11:15 and then to bed shortly after. That's a good 5-5.5 hours of A time. This is what we've been doing all along (for the past 6+ weeks) of the 1 nap transition.
In the early evening she starts yawning and getting fussy around 5pm. Again, this is totally normal for her as this is her "witching hour" until she eats dinner and then she's totally fine and re-energized. It's so odd b/c dinner completely re-energizes her and she's good to go again for awhile. Maybe I should consider feeding her earlier?? Normally, I like her to eat 5:45-6pm and then to bath around 6:30, but maybe I should try 5:15-5:30 so she can get that extra energy out for the last hour before bath....I don't know! I know this is dumb, but my fear with an earlier dinner is that she'll wake earlier in the am b/c she's hungry from not eating for like 13+ hours. Stupid concern??
It totally baffles me! Can you believe this??? I have a friend whose almost 2.5 year old is still taking 2 naps a day and each are 2 hours long!! Then she sleeps about 9 hours at night. But still....I can't figure out how a 2.5 year old naps 4 hours during the day??
Anyways, back to dd....I figured after 6+ weeks of the 2-1 transition we'd be sort of in a better situation, but I guess not. I suppose the only thing I can do is to continue trying different things.
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you know, i think you should consider an earlier dinner if you can. even closer to 4:30 or 5, let her run it off, then offer a yogourt or something right before bath/bed just to give her that little extra to tide her over.....
if you go from the 12 hour day theory, what seems to be happening is that her dinner is so late that it is giving her a second wind instead of her getting wound down. so when you are giving dinner might be a better time to be giving bath and winding down. dinner at 4:45, then at least an hour to run from then until you start the wind down toward bath and bed (assuming 45 mins for snack, bath, books etc. and bed) so that she is in bed by 6:30. my mom always said with little ones this age taht somethink like a yogourt that is so balanced will help tide a little belly over. also, she suggested (and i thought she was nuts at first) to put a sippy cup of water in bed with them at night so that when they wake, if they think they are hungry, they will drink a bit of water which will make the belly feel slightly full just long enough for them to fall asleep. they don't wake from hunger necessarily, but if they wake as a normal part of sleep and are awake, they may recognize hunger or confuse it with tired (much like adults do). does that make sense? earlier dinner, snack (or healthy dessert if you prefer to think of it that way :) ) and then bath. for what it is worth, my kids have dinner at 5pm, then don't have anything again (except water) until breakfast around 7:30 or 8 am. they are fine, i am just ready to feed them right away when they wake up if they are starving.
don't torture yourself comparing sleeping children. it is SO unique to each child. with two the same age, i can really see how different their sleep needs are and i spend a lot of time balancing the difference. and for that mom with the 2.5 year old still sleeping twice a day, that is wonderufl in some ways, but very limiting to child and mom in terms of playdates or scheduling activities, and it would be awful for a daycare situation ..... so there are good and bad bits to each situation. we did our transition in june, and we still have some tough days with short naps.....but it gets slowly better. hang in there, adn don't forget to enjoy her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are doing a WONDERFUL job watching her cues and wanting what is best for her!
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You know, reading your post back to me, it just dawned on me...if dd is eating lunch at 11 or 11:15 and doesn't get dinner till 6pm that is a long time without a big meal. Sure she gets snacks and she's a huge snacker, but it's certainly not a meal. Tonight I am going to try your suggestion. Going to do 5:00 dinner and then if she needs it a snack at 6 (the latest) and right to bath and bed by 6:30.
She has just fallen asleep now at 11:50 (took 20 minutes today). So, we'll see how long it lasts. :) Thanks again!
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I agree that dinner should be earlier. Thomas gets lunch about 11:30, and even though he gets a snack, he's still SO ready to eat by about 4:30. I usually aim for dinner by 5:00 or 5:15...
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how did it go this evening?
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Well, wouldn't ya figure....she took a 2 hour nap! So, here's what I did....she slept from 11:50-1:50. Then we went out and about and played at the park and she was really hungry at 5ish, so I fed her dinner about 5:20. Oddly, after eating tonight she was still really crabby. That usually does not happen. She must have been tired. We went up to bath and everything and she was in bed at 6:40. Didn't fall asleep till 7:10 (30 minutes). Not great, but I could have probably gotten her in bed earlier b/c she was pretty crabby. I just kept thinking to myself that she slept for 2 hours and was up right around 2pm and that she should be able to make it till 6/6:30. Guess not today! :) We'll see how tomorrow goes, but I am definetly going to be doing an earlier dinner. I totally agree with you guys!
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so a two hour nap is great!!!!!!!! step in the right direction for sure. sounds like earlier dinner could help. when she is really hungry like that, consider giving her the protein first (or a yogourt or something) to take the edge off. my dh often jokes you 'can't eat on an empty stomach' but honestly, if you are really hungry the protein will take teh edge off for her and make mealtime better....and then maybe post-mealtime better.
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How's everyone? Momtothomas...how's he doing? Feeling better now, hopefully?!?!
Let's see...J was back to an hour and 20 minute nap yesterday and was in bed for the night at 6:30 but didn't fall asleep till 7pm and she woke this morning at 7:25am!! :) Her nose had been running all day yesterday so she probably wasn't feeling all that well. Hopefully, it's just her last eye/canine tooth coming thru and not a cold. We shall see how nap goes today. Going to try and hold it off till about 12:15/12:30 so she can sleep into the mid afternoon and then probably bed at 7pm.
Ok, I know this is nuts but is it possible for her NOT to be tired 5-5.5 hours after her nap yet?? I'm wondering if we push bedtime back to 7/7:15 if she'll fall asleep quicker??? Probably not, but I though I'd throw it out there to see what you ladies think! Now remember she's not a long napper. 2 hours max but mostly 1.5 hours average.
Oh Momtonb&ab, yes, I always do the protein first with meals, otherwise she's a side dish lover (like me) and will completely skip over it to get the other food. Dinner was 5:30 last night b/c she was begging for food at 4:20 and I gave her some fruit to tie her over.
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Thomas is doing better, but still not 100%... Pediatrician said that if his ears are still filled with fluid and any red at all at his recheck in 2 weeks (or if he gets another bad ear infection before them), she's sending us to an ENT.
He had a great day yesterday and took a 2 hr 40 minute nap! Went to sleep around 7:10, but was up off and on all night, whining a little. Loud enough that it woke me up (via the monitor), but not nearly enough for me to go in there. Then he was up around 5:10, and slept about 5 minutes, woke up and whined/talked for 5 minutes, repeat repeat repeat until 6:00, at which point he was all the way up. Ugh! I was tempted to offer a short 20 minute nap this morning, but I just dread what might happen this afternoon. So, we're holding out to hopefully 11:30. If the nap ends up short, at least it's Sunday and I can get him to bed early easier than if it were during the week!
As for your question about if it's possible for her not to be tired after 5-5.5 hours... I'd say ANYTHING is possible! All kids are different, and her sleep needs will change a little every day, and will definitely not match someone else's kid's sleep habits. I would think 5.5 hours would be plenty of time to get her tired, though. Not being a long napper, I'd hesitate to push bedtime too late... But like I said, maybe she's just at a point where she doesn't need QUITE as much sleep as you think! The only thing I can say is try it if you want, as long as you're willing to accept whatever happens!
Don't you wish we were psychic or had a magic 8 ball?!?!? :>
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hey there... just have a quick minute, but momtothomas, the waking up and fussing and going right back to sleep in the night in our house is 100% indicative of pain in the ears.......(we are an ear infection family here too :() and the way you describe the fussing but not enough to need to go in is exactly what both of mine do when their ears are hurting, it's like they can't get comfortable. .... how many ear infections have you had so far? where are you located? i ask because i am curious what the standard is for getting them sent to ent....here we have to have 8 ear infections in one year, or 6 in 3 months to get ent referral.
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Hmm, I was wondering that about his ears. This is his first ear infection, but it's lasted over a month. I'm in Georgia, in the Atlanta area. The pediatrician said she doesn't like the fact that it didn't respond to 2 oral antibiotics, and it took 3 shots of rocephin (antibiotic) to make a dent in it... but that he still has fluid in his ears. I've talked to some people that said their pediatrician didn't send them until they had about 5 or 6 in a row (back to back), but it sounds like my doctor doesn't subscribe to that theory. She said that if they have constant fluid backup in their ears it will start to mess up their hearing (possibly permanently), so that's what she wants to avoid. She also said that the fact it's been this bad and it's practically still summer here worries her as to how he'll do this winter!
I gave him Motrin last night, but it would have worn off by midnight-ish. The night before last, I gave him ear drops for the pain because he was so fussy, so maybe I should be doing that every night for a few more days...? Plus, his stellar nap yesterday was with tylenol, which I didn't give him for this nap today. I didn't think about it, and now he's down, doing his first sleep cycle... We'll see how he does. FINGERS CROSSED!
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it sure sounds to me like his ears are giving him pain. that may also be the cause of your short naps....he can only stay settled for so long and when his sleep cycle ends, instead of going into the next one for a longer nap he is too aware of the discomfort to go back to sleep.
i think it is great that you can get a referal to the ENT so soon. Do it! my sister's little guys who are now 7 and 4 both suffered a lot with ears when they were little. first little guy didn't have tubes, had a heck of a time of it. the youngest got tubes at 2.5 and she says she should have had it done sooner. she calls tubes a godsend. her little guy was struggling with his speech by the time they got the tubes (she was just so nervous of surgery, but it turns out it was no big deal at all) and within days his speech was improving. i was home visiting then and i saw for myself the improvements it made in him almost right away.
so, all that to say is that likely your sleep issues are related to ears and not to sleep habits. that, in some odd way, must be a bit of a relief. we were at emergency last night with ds who has another ear infection and doc there told us that lately they are hearing more and more that motrin/advil is giving kids more relief from this type of pain so it is good that you are using motrin at night. i would say give it for a few more nights and then get that referal going, it sure sounds like the fluid on his ear is giving him discomfort. also, my mom told me not to be afraid to give liquid medication in a syring to kids while they are sleeping. so if his motrin is to wear off at 2 or 3 and you want to head him off at the pass, sneak in and give him a shot in his sleep.....it works a charm, we have had to do that with antibiotics (they were taking 3 times a day, so one dose was at 11pm) and after the first night, they didn't even stir.
good luck. sorry about the ears, it is miserable stuff..
newmama12, how are you doing?
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We have to wait 2 weeks and see what happens before we'd get an ENT referral, but I am definitely relieved that it sounds like my ped office believes in tubes. Both of my favorite doctors there used the same ENT and each got tubes for one of their kids. My sister got them, and I found out a few months ago that DH got them when he was 2. Who knew?!? Anyway, we'll see what happens over the next two weeks. I hate having to give him Motrin every night "just in case"... FYI - He's just getting up from another good nap - 2 hrs 40 min again. He cried a couple minutes at 1.5 hrs, but settled back down. Whew!
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Gosh, I really wish I could figure this out. We are STILL having issues with dd taking 45 minutes to fall asleep at night. I just don't understand it. Today was a great day. She slept in till 7:30am. :) Then napped from 1-3. I figured, ok, if 5-5.5 hours of A post nap is too long then I'll do 4.5 hours. So, I put her in bed at 7:25 and it's 8:05 and she's still moving around up there. Maybe I need to find a different way to get her more relaxed and ready for bed. I don't know. I am out of ideas on what the heck is the issue!
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is she fussing falling asleep? or is she just taking her time? do you need to go to her, or is she just settling? maybe it isn't such a big deal if she is happy to take her time falling asleep. awake at 7:30, 2 hour nap, then asleep by 8:15 isn't so bad. she is getting 13+ hours of sleep and for her age is very average.
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Nope, not fussing at all. She seems to just be settling on her own and doesn't need me. It just worries me that some nights it can take her 45 minutes to fall asleep. Makes me wonder if she's not tired enough?? I've tried bedtime time 4-6 hours after nap and it's all the same. The only way she falls asleep immediately is if she hasn't napped all that well during the day (less than 1 hour) or if she's been up for over 6 hours straight.
Oh well. I guess as long as she's content and not upset I shouldn't worry so much about it. Yes, she is seeming to average 13 hours sleep a day. Rarely more. Most of the time it's closer to 12.5 or so.
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she may be a little one who needs that 'me' time. as much as that is stressful for you, it may make her sleep better to have her own wind down time. my mother once told me that my sister did that a bit (she's my twin) and to avoid her keeping me awake she used to give her a couple of little board books to look at (there was a night light in the room) and that kept her relaxed until she was ready to fall asleep. i think if it isn't broken, dont' worry about fixing it. she is sleeping well and not crying, so that quiet time might be just what she needs right now and will likely grow out of it. i think the key is that if you keep her up too much logner, she gets overtired, so she must need that little bit of time to herself iykwim?
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I totally agree with PP. Some children just need longer to wind down, and they need to do it on their own. The BW toddler book actually talks about this, if you want to take a look there. Absolutely don't fret about it! Just make sure to put her in bed early enough that even with her long wind down she falls asleep when you think she should.
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Thanks ladies! You're probably right...that might be her way of relaxing (she's not a big snuggler and doesn't quite sit still enough to read books before bed yet) herself to fall asleep.
However, tonight she was asleep within 5 minutes! The trick?!?! 6 hours of A time after a 2.5 hour nap. Since she napped so long and didn't wake till 2:30 we went out to visit my inlaws for dinner and stayed too late. She went to bed at about 8:15 and fell asleep instantly. :) Now, let's just hope she doesn't wake early.
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if she doesn't wake early, you may have foudn the key. sounds like you had a good day! that's great!
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Thomas had a good nap yesterday as well... 2 hrs 20 minutes (at daycare) that ended at 2:35. I didn't want to push it, so we started bedtime stuff and aimed for a 7:00 asleep time, but he didn't go to sleep until 7:30.
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Not that you're wondering... but Thomas has an ear infection again (or should I say STILL). We got the ENT names and are calling first thing Monday morning.
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that will explain why it takes him so long to settle. glad to hear you are going to push forward with the ENT....no need to suffer ... poor little guy!
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Hi everyone! How is everything going?
Sorry I haven't been around much lately. We were out of town and then I was super busy, etc. :) We're still having 1.5 hour naps lately. For about 3 days after vacation she napped 2+ hours and I though, wow we're finally getting somewhere. But, no, she was just catching up on sleep b/c now we're back to barely 1.5 hours the past few days. Today she napped from 12:30-2. Grrr. Maybe she will just not be a consistent 2 hour napper??? She seems to do 10.5-11 at night. Rarely more. It's just that by 5:30 she is soooo crabby. Especially if she naps closer to 12 b/c then she's up by 1:30. Should I still be shooting for a 6:30 bedtime?? Lately she's been waking 6:15-6:30, just depends on when she falls asleep the previous night.
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You have the exact same schedule as us... Up around 6:15-6:30, nap from 12-1:30 (although we've had a few 2 or 2.5 hour naps the past couple weeks!), then shooting for a 6:30 bedtime. The bedtime usually ends up being closer to 6:45 or 7, though. I say stick with the 6:30 or 7 bedtime for a while.
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I'd definitely go with the early bedtime. Sounds like a sleepy bub to me!
Here's the puzzling thing about toddlers: even though they can be on the same routine for months at a go, they often have 'invisible' changes that cause them to need extra sleep. We don't realize these changes are going on, so we keep them on the same routine but suddenly it doesn't work for them anymore! They are simply experiencing so many new things and gaining new skills, and it just wears the little guys out sometimes! When they were infants, it was easier to keep up because they changed their A time so often, we were constantly on the look out for OT signs. But as toddlers, we kind of forget that they can regress sometimes due to these 'invisible' changes I mentioned. It can be so confusing and irritating! ;D
I've found when in doubt, move bedtime up. That has worked really well since I made the rule up about a year ago! ;)
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Well, I still haven't been able to get her in bed before 6:45. :( Boo on me. I know. And then it's still taking her 30 minutes to fall asleep, so she's not sleeping till 7:!5pm. And only napping barely 1.5 hours. Last night for whatever reason she was up a lot between 2:30-5am. During that time she only cried for about 10 seconds, so she was just laying around in bed. Don't know what that was about. Needless to say, she was pretty crabby this morning. She fell asleep for nap right before noon, so we'll see how long she's down for. I am probably going to still try and get her in bed by 6:30 tonight b/c of her lost sleep last night.
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Update: Grrrr...she is already up from her nap! It's only been an hour and 15 minutes!! She's not crying so I'm going to leave her up there a bit in hopes that she lays down again. But I don't have high hopes...I know her patters all too well. Bummer. Definetly in bed by 6:30 the latest tonight.
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Sorry things are frustrating...! DS is on a super strong antibiotic before he gets tubes in his ears a week from today, and the antibiotic is tearing up his little tush. Poor buddy. He was up from 8:45 to midnight last night. We'll see if tonight is another banner night...
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Oh, poor baby. I'm sure the tubes will help, though. I know he's been battling some pretty bad infections. :(
Got J in bed at 6:30 and she was asleep within 20 minutes. Now, lets just hope she doesn't wake at, like, 5am. LOL!