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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: RACHPEM on August 29, 2008, 05:45:28 am
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Please accept my apologies for my plea but I really need help and I dont know how I can carry on in this situation. I have another thread open and have had some great advice and support and I hope they dont mind me posting here.
My dd is 19months always been bad at napping/sleeping but with the help and support on here we have got her sstn for the first time in 19months. But it is the ew's that are kiling me, we have gone from 5.30-4.30 and I cant break the cycle.
I feel like I have tried everything, catnaps, late bedtimes, early bedtimes, set times all sorts of A times and I cant get it right.
She only takes approx 1.5 hrs in the day although mostly 1.20 and 10.5 at night , I really hope someone can shed some new light on our situation before I end up going crazy!!!!
Rachael x
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hmmmmmmmmmm are you sure she's not OT? doesn't sound liek a lot 10.5 hrs at night and less than 1.5 hr in the daytime?
when did she swtich to 1 nap?
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Rachael have you considered homeopathy? I have just ordered some tablets called Calms Forte 4 Kids after reading amazing reviews, they are completely natural and help the mind and body calm down when OT and stressed. I have the ones for adults and I can't believe how well they work, they are by the same company that do the teething tablets, Hylands. I have been researching reviews on the net and people who have children with severe sleep problems have had much success with them, just giving them before bed helps them sleep through the night not by putting them to sleep like a medicine but by relaxing them, you could probably give them at the early mornings. I have ordered some for when we have had a busy day with lots of stimulation and also to help when teething as L sleeps quite restlessly, they just sound like something that will be useful to have on hand. If they are anything like the adult ones then I find within half an hour of taking them I am drowsy and can hardly keep my eyes open while reading my book and the go on to have a great night sleep whereas at the mo' I was a lot in the night and am very restless in the early hours, much like your LO! Definitely worth a try for less than $5 ;)
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Rach, I'm marking this so I can keep track of your progress ;)
They sound good Katt, might have to get some for myself.
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Hi Yaya, i keep flucuating between Ot and doe sshe need less sleep? i just cant work it out, apart from a brief stint on holiday where she was taking oodles of sleep she has always beenthe lighter side. We have just tried about everything. I just dont know how to fix it? We have just got her sttn after a long bout of nws but when she was waking in the night for 1hr or so she was actually sleeping longer overall. We have just gone back to earlier bedtimes but ew arre even earlier. I hope you can point me in the right direction, 4.30 is not good for my sanity!
Rachael x
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Vicku, they are fantastic! I bought them of Ebay but the kids ones I had to get from a US site, Rachael you should look into it for yourself too, you must be so stressed :(
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rach...try keep a sleep log and plat around with the times but at 19 mos I would maybe have
wakeup 7am
Nap 11.30-12pm for as long as you can get (definately try extending past 1,5hrs)
bedtime 5 hrs after so say u get a 2 hr nap then wakeup 1.30-2ish and
Bedtime max 7pm
(adapt to your current wakeup)
try this for 1 week at least before you decide it doesn't work, you never see the results/chengaes after only a few days.
If no joy give it 3 more days then we'll come together for another plan of action.
Side note: does she go to sleep independently?
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Hi Yaya, yes she does sleep independantly now, although naps are harder later to get her down for. What should I do today though still aim for 11.30 ? as she has been up since 4.30 so that will be 7hrs! and what about if I cant extend her nap, still go with 7pm?
Rachael x
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oh didnt kno about the EWs too....
what worked for us and EWs was to ignore them and treat 7 am as wakeup time, after about a week her body got used to it and started catchin up the sleep in those early morning hrs... i think at the end of the day when u reach the end of the tether and can't sort out the EWs any other way then u need to 'starve' them if that makes sense. Yes you have a few days of bad OT but it works out in the end
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So I should go with a 11.30 nap still today and bed at 7pm regardless of how long she naps? and do this for a wk?
Sorry to sound thick but i want to make sure I am doing right,
Rachael x
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Rachel, the EWs really sound a lot like what my DS used to do. He also woke up at 4.30 am (sometimes 4 am) for weeks and weeks (it must have been 3 or 4 months of that I think). Bringing him to bed earlier has helped us and he now seems to wake sometime around 6 am. I've also ordered a kidsleep clock that tells little ones when it's time to get up. I haven't tried it yet, but I am hoping that it might help. After all, they don't know how late it is, they are just eager to start the day and be with you again, so having that device might help them realise it's still time to sleep.
Anyway, you are getting some great advice, but I thought I'd leave you a note to say that I feel for you. :)
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yeo thats what I would do
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Thank you, wish me luck!
Rachael x
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good luck!
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I think you're having the classing 10 hour OT wakings. They happened at our house for awhile too. I don't know if your DD is teething, but for my son whenever he gets teeth in it makes him EXTRA tired, so it meant I had to put him down 30 minutes earlier for both nap and bed.
Everyone has given great advice, so I'll just be sure to check back in a few days to see if you're having any success.
One last question -- have you tried any sleep extention methods at that 4:30 waking? In other words, have you tried giving warm milk, rocking, soothing, ANYTHING to help her go back to sleep?
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we had a similar problem, and what worked for us was what yaya has suggested, we stuck to the bedtime and it did get worse before it got better. though we are having a few NW
we also do a 11:30 nap and 7/7:30pm bedtime depending on how long or short the nap was.
Also I would suggest not offering any feed at 4:30 wake up as we did that and it became worse because then DS would start asking for milk at a NW, so come what may, i do not offer DS any food/milk till 6:30 am. On most days I avoid bringing DS to our bed as well some days I do give up...so essentially I keep trying to put DS back to sleep till 6:15 when he is then allowed to come out of bed and milk at 6:30.
the other thing that I think was causing a problem was the temperature change at around that time...the way our timer was set the A/c came on only around 6 am but went off around mid night, so the temperate in DS's room increased at about 4ish and i think the heat was /wakes him up as well.
all the best.
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Hi Mukta, thanks for your kind support, I dont know what i would do without you guys on here. I know you have had your fair share of problems with your lo as I have seen your posts on here before.
Becky, thanks for dropping in, I appreciate it. We normally do wi/wo when she wakes early and sometimes it works sometimes not. I have done all the above previously, giving milk, rocking taking her in my bed, getting in her bed but nothing has worked but today for instance she actually lay in her cot for 1hr before she started getting serious about me getting up, I know she did not fall back off as she kept calling my name every 10 mins or so but that is a huge improvement on before as she would be hysterical, which is what makes me think she has had her quota of sleep. I am more than happy to start our day at 6am, and if she needs less sleep then that is fine, it is just the messing about we seem to keep doing and 4.30 is no joke!
Thanks again,
Rachael x
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Rachel,
Must admit, I have decided to accept that DS is an early riser, btw there was a time when I enjoyed waking up early!!! Am happy starting my day anytime after 6am.
I am in fact going to try out the Homeopathic remedy, thanks Skatty! And lets see how that goes, but as many have already said, consistency of doing the same thing wrt timings works well, it has for us. after all the various AP bad habits food and rocking is just not an option for us any longer.
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Marking my spot
OOOOh do let me know about the homeopathic remedies, tempting
Still sending HUGS and my ever hopeful thoughts that you are getting there with the STTN, occasionally falling back asleep and occasional longer nap / longer night
But really understand why you are so desparate still, 4.30 is definately no joke
Will check back in couple of days
e x
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quick point
that earlier post has reminded me - I KNOW you dread it but I dont think you have tried W2S have you? We did have sucess with it but it varied and I think that because we had not done the WIWO
Just to reassure you, only once did she stay awake, all other times she went back to sleep, the only variation was that sometimes she still did 10 hrs only, others it worked and she did 11........
I just think that, now you have the WIWO "message" working with her, then it may be the time.....
E x
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Good point Emma!
I keep forgetting, but we actually did have some help from W2S with DD's EW. We didn't mean to but once DH had to get up super super early to catch a flight, so he was up even before she would normally wake. She stirred from hearing him but didn't wake up... and then she slept til 7! :o First time I think. So it might be worth a try. The key seems to be to get them to stirr, like turn around or something, but not to wake fully. If you've no tried this before it might be worth a try too ???
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Hi guys, well she took a nap of 1.5 yesterday and alseep by 7pm , she stirred at that agic spot of 4.30 but slept til 5.30 so 10.5 plus nap is not so bad. I am not sure w2s would work as I think she is taking what she needs as she settles herself when she wakes and if she needs more she is taking it. Still early days though so we shall see.
Have a good weekend.
Rachael x
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10.5 plus 1.5 is quite normal here, although she often does 2 hrs nap. It's good though and if she seems ok on that, that's probably sufficient for her. Stay with it and see how you go :-*
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thats good news!!
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Still aiming for a 11.30 nap but she is taking forever to go to sleep and really upset, she finally fell asleep at 12pm, do you think it is because she is OT as she has never resited naps before? I kknow I am pushing her as she had done 6.5 before nap but that is the idea right? I normally spot when she is getting tired , by her grouchiness and more lethargy but not these last few days nothing at all, not even rubbing eyes or yawns!
Rachael
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Do you 'prepare' her for naps? Like do a special activity before or maybe just tell her it's soon nap time? If sheknows what's coming she might be less resistant... just a thought. Works with my LO, I always tell her a while before, like 10 mins or so, then again at 5 mins...
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Yeah it sounds 'normal' to me, she WILL be OT after 6.5hrs but this is wwhat I do with my DD when we're stuck in a viscous cycle, I imagine the routine I want her to be on and pretend we are on it IYKWIM? so I pretend 7 am ia wakeup , pretend we had a 2 hrs nap then 5hrs A time before bed, it takes about a week if u can stick it out with the OT but the body clock falls into the new rotuine eventually and you have cracked the cycle!
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Morning everyone, we have been up again since 4.30!!!! I know it is not going to happen overnight but surely she should sleep if she is tired? She took an hr and 30 mins nap again and bed by 7pm , she woke at 4.30 and despite our best efforts would not go back to sleep, by 8.20 she was looking pretty beat but I dont want to go down the catnap route again as we have tried that so I determined we are sticking to this new plan for a wk at least before we change anything again but 4.30 is so hard!
Rachael x
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It is really hard, and very strict but I think when you'vr tried everything else, it's the only way to go, think it took us about a week....
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Thanks, that is great to hear at least I have something to focus on. Really appreciate your support.
Rachael x
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no worries let me kno how you are getting on
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Hi Yaya just a quickie if you get 5? Maya did not take her nap until 1pm today, although up at 4.30 so a huge stretch but we could not get her down, she napped just over 1.5 as usual but now what should I do about bedtime? what time still 7pm or later?
Be great if you get chance to give me an answer, as I want to keep things on track.
Rachale x
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I would keep the normal bedtime, to prevent the OT monster....she may surprise you and even if she isn't going straight to sleep she is resting in her cot till she falls asleep
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Thankyou, much appreciated.
Rachael x
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Maya fell promptly to sleep at 7pm I could not believe it! she woke at 4.50 hysterical and depiste my best efforts at wi/wo just made her worse, I am not sure if I am supposed to try to get her back to sleep? anyway in the end I was just so tired I climbed into bed with her which I know I prob should not have done but she did go back to sleep after about 1hr of her waking ad slept for nearly another hr til 7.10am!
At least it has extended her overall sleep and she really needed it yesterday after being awake from 4.30-1pm! she was really tryng to get back to sleep really restless and just could not until after 1hr.
Rachael x
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that'll be the OT but my guess says it's working....
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Still aimed for 11.30 nap time and she went down just after 12pm, a little resistance but nothing like the last few days.
Rachale x
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You know what, I say you're having progress!!! 30mins to fall asleep is very very normal, good some might say : )
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Sounds good Rachael!
This is pretty much what I did with Lois, set the times and waited for her body clock to adjust.
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We had a later start this morning at 5.16am but no sign of her dropping back off, however she did have a shorter nap yesterday so she is still only doing 11.5 hrs ish. I cant see her ever taking any more.
Rachaelx
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hang in there rach...a later start? thats great! How many days have u been on the new routine?
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Hi, we started last thursday, so not quite a wk yet.
Rach
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i would give it a few more days before u say it hasnt worked...
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Hi Rachel, I think you are actualy making great progress..hang in there.
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Hi there
just wanted to add my support, hang on in there. Worried when you dont post 1st thing with an update!!
E x
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Thanks for your concern Emma we had a 5.30am wake up this morning so i guess I dont have so much time on my hands in the am now it is not 4.30am ha ha ha !!!!
Anyway I am off out today so I just hope it does not throw us out too much.
Rachaelx
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Enjoy your day, you deserve it
E x
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Hi honey
Just caught up on other thread and this one, glad things are beginning to get better for you. I was beginning to be convinced it was just that she needed less sleep, but I guess you have to assume otherwise until you've tried every avenue, and you certainly have done that.
Stick with the fixed routine it does seem to be working and it did before for short burst's.
Keep in mind too that she is slap bang in the middle of the first nap refusal age range, when lots of LO's go through spells of nap refusal for no apparent reason, i know Lily did!
Hope 'your' doing OK too.
Love Nik x
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oh wow!! i am so so happy to read this update....530 is so near 6 !!
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Back to 4.50 this morning! although she did fall back to sleep after approx 40 mins for another 40mins. I knew this would prob happen as she had zero sleep yesterday in the day apart from 20 mins or so in the car.
Racahel
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Hugs!!! Hope today goes well for you and she can catch up a bit. Hope you had a good day out yesterday :-*
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Hi
sorry about the early wake up, but honestly going back to sleep is still really great. When B was doing short nights she would only go back to sleep after 1.75 hrs!!! Yes, thats when we all needed to be up anyway....
E x
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I agree!! Look at the positive, she went back to sleep!!! YAY
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Hi guys, she went down real easy for her nap and although she woke at 1hr she went back for another 30 mins which was good, so going out yesterday did not mess her up too much.
Rachael x
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fantastic X
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This 'going back to sleep' thing she's been doing is great and shows big progress! :) Keep it up! :-*
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4.50 again but fell asleep again after 1hr til 7.11am!!! not sure if she will ever break this habit though.
Rachael x
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thats good rach!! shes going back to sleep...is she waking always at 4.30? u can try w2s..
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That is the prob she wakes at different times. Also I tried for her nap at 12pm today as that is the time she is normally asleep by but she was showing no signs of tiredness although she did fall asleep but only had 1 hr, should I have still stuck to times or made nap later? I guess because she woke later and took 11hrs in total overnight she did not need as long for nap time but obs now it is a longer time til bed as she normally does not finish until 13.30!
Cheers,
Rachael x
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i would have an early bedtime to avoid OT tbh...
are u going in when she wakes early?
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Hi
quick reply. Its good about the going back to sleep thing still - how are you doing it WIWO? as if so then the message should sink in soon...
Give w2s some thought, you dont have to have a precise wake up. B used to sleep about 10 hrs so I went in at 9 hours, but sometimes she would have done 9.5-10.5 and it still often worked
Maybe bedtime a touch earlier, say 1/2 hr, but just keep things calm beforehand and no huge activity this afternoon (probably raining anyway!!)
E x
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I am just a little concerned with doing an earlier b/time incase she wakes even earlier, it is not every morning she will drop back off. I also thought that given the fact we are trying to reset her body clock is it not going to confuse her if I change the time?
Rachalex
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btw should I have maybe offered her nap a little later so we could keep bedtime the same?
Rachel
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yes actually i wuld agree with you ; )
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Sorry Yaya, do you mean you agree nap should have been later or bedtime still should have been at 7pm regardless of time she woke?
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i agree with sticking to usual bedtime...maybe 30 mins earlier, no more than that but honestly in that situation I give early bedtime as I find it hard to deal with the OT!!Q
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Well I had Maya in bed by 6.30 and she fell straight to sleep and she woke at 5.30 yay!!! given the fact she only took an hr at naptime she obs tagged it on to nt sleep so I am still thinking she only needs 12 hrs in a 24 hr period.
Rachael x
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could be...T only needs t (he is 3tho) but loves his nap so i let him have a lter bedtime, u nned to work out whats best for your Lo and sounds as tho u have my friend, well done you
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I think Maya has a cold coming she has not been very nice to be around today plus she slept for nearly 2hrs! and she actually asked to go to bed tonight too. I have still aimed for 7pm btime but she is just chatting at the mo but I dont think it will be too long before she drops off.
Rachael
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aaah the highs and lows of a cold... for us B always has 2 nights of NWs before a cold, but then when its here she sleeps more...
keep us posted
E x
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I heard Maya stir this morning at 4.15 but she settled herself off and woke at 5.18am! which seems to be the time she is waking more consistently. So my plan is to stick with this for a few more days and then maybe push forward slightly so we can get a later bedtime/ later wake up but a little wary of doing this as she is already doing 5.30-12pm but I just dont seem to be able to get longer out of her overnight and I just want a 6am start! How do I do this without the risk of OT?
Rachael x
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Hi Rach,
I think just trying to do it slowly and gradually is the only thing you can do really... Lois is so much a 10.5hr kid that we can't even really do an earlier bedtime if she has a bad nap day or extra tired for whatever reason to catch up, cos she'll still wake after 10.5hrs and then we get into earlier wakings and that is to me worse...
Maybe try to start pushing bedtime after a day with a good long nap ???
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Well, we had to do 2 naps yeserday as we were out until 1ish so I put Maya down for 30 mins in the am and then she did another 1.15 in the pm, she fell asleep just past 7.15 and woke at 4.30!!!! she has got a cold so I can give her some slack but I am still so fed up with these ew. It does not seem to make any difference what I do Icant get it right, we have a day where we get a later wake up then it all falls apart again. I cant get anymore sleep nto her what ever I try, most days we average 11.5 hrs which still seems short even for a kid that needs less sleep than average. She did fall back to sleep after about 1hr for 30 mins but I was i the room, I am waking at 4 oclcok most mornings and I am knackered!
Sorry to moan, i just feel blue. Does not help that my nieces little girl sleeps for england and wakes at 8oclock or after most days plus takes about 2-3 hrs in the day, I am not even asking for that just a 6am wake up would be fine and anything over 1hr ill take it,
Racahel x
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sweetie hugs, and moan away , it helps, i know that well : )
Right this thread is so long, recap for me:
nap time?
bedtime?
What does eh do during the day?
What do u do when she wakes (EW)?
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Right, she generally wakes between 4.30 and 5.30 (we were progressing nicely towards the latter) I aim for nap around 11.30 but it was nearer 12 when she was going to sleep so I have been going for 11.50, and bedtime at 7pm unless like the other day she took 30min nap all day, she went down 30mins earlier.
She generally naps 1.5 on most days, when she wakes I do wi/wo, sometmes she will go back to sleep sometimes not. As i said earlier she has a cold so things are prob not going to improve until she has got over that. I just cant believe she only needs 11.5-12 hrs but that is all she seems to take regardless, if she takes a longer nap which is v rare she then sleeps less at night what she had extra in the day, if that makes sense?
Rachaelx
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My DD is 14 mos and wakes between 7 and 8, nap at 12.45- 1ish then bedtime between 7.30 and 8
wanna try those times for a few days? see how it goes?
Other tip: i take my kids out in the afternoon to tire them out and on days when I take them trampolining the sleep is sooooo much better. Do u have a park near you? Are you able to take them out, i'm thinking strenuos physical exercise ; )
What happens if u leave DD at EW? Do u have a baby monitor and can u heard her without it?
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Oh Rach honey, I thought you where onto a winner there. I think you are just gonna have to get through this cold and start again. I think you are right about her sleep needs and once she is well you can just carry on with putting her down for her 'ideal' routine and stick with it. To be honest if things get messy with this cold you could almost risk sticking her down at a later bedtime, one that in theory will give a 6am wake up and then just ride it out until she settles onto it, using wi/wo for early wake ups and nap extension if necessary or possible. Some might think thats an extreme way of dealing with it but in my experience just sticking with set times works so very well with toddlers. If Lily's sleep gets messed up I just stick with our normal routine and she usually is back on track in 3/4 days tops, less normally. I used to adjust things to suit her OT but everytime I do it always backfires.
Got fingers crossed her cold passes quickly :-)
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Thanks again, Maya does have quite an active day on most days but sleep is no different I think her body has just got used to less sleep. She did not actualy fall asleep until 7.30 last night but just resulted in even earlier wake up. If I leave her in the mornings she just screams what seems like forever! we do have a monitor and I cant bear her being so upset. Btw she has only slept 1.20 mins for nap but seems ok. I would love your times Yaya but I am a little apprehensive at the mo to stretch her quite so far given the fact she is awake at 4.30, so I think I am just going to have to ride this cold out first and then maybe look at altering things. We were getting nearer to 5.30 so maybe it is just a bllip cause of cold, I will carry on for a few days after her cold is better and then access again, I guess that is all i can do. Once this cold is over and we can get a couple of days with consistent wake ups then I may be able to do a later day.
Rachael x
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have u tried rescue remdedy? herbal sleep aide?
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No I have never tried that, although Medised does not make her sleepy and that is supposed to have something in it to make sleep easier when feeling off,
Rachael x
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i got rescue remedy night for me but it says it's for the whole family, might be worth a shot
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Hi Rachael,
You are probably in the UK, but I tried a US version of homeopathic sleep remedy - called Calms Forte and it worked well...I used it for a few days on DS with his NW and it sort of broke the habit I think..at least for the lats 2 days..but when you have a DS like mine, you don't count on this to be forever. but would be worth a short for you.
And its better than Medised since its got no side effects etc.
Also, what I do is with EW, DS and I cuddle up on the couch and just lie there till its 'time' for morning milk etc. At at times he does here and there and it allows me to doze a bit as well. Would this be something you are Keen on? DS uses a pacifier and cuddle his burp cloth and we us that on the couch as well (so he still beleive sit sleep time, only time paci is allowe) . I avoid bringing him to our bed because then he 'enjoys' that a bit too much and thinks its a a game...
Also part of our EW?NW is due to uncomfy nappy, he is in night nappies and oversized one sbut he pees a lot in the night and that wakes him up :(
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Hi all, I have tried staying in her room and climbing into her bed which does work and like you say when you are tired you will try anything and i do sometimes fall back to sleep even if Maya does not however I really dont want that to be a long term thing so would prefer not to go back to that again. Skatty also reccomended Calms forte so I will have to see if we can get it here as I am in the uk. I only gice medised if she is unwell but like i say it might numb the pain but not help her sleep. I guess due to the wonderful weather we have been havng she has not been as active as normal but then hving said that for about a wk she has just wanted to sit on my lap I think due to this cold, fingers crossed it will pass quickly,
Thanks again for everyone's input.
Rachael x
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Rachael,
you can try Teetha (homeoathic) form Boots if you think its teething related discomfort, and it also calms them down a bit like Calms Forte but I think its a bit mild. But if you talk to someone in boots they are sure to have something simsilar to CAlms Forte, maybe take a printout of the CF ingredients.
Also try Whole Foods, I am in the US but found it hard to find CF and only found it in Whole Foods and there is a Whole Foods in London. Where are you? Maybe they can mail to you if they carry it in the UK.
Nelson's pharmacy might have a similar sleep remedy as well, again London based but they are very helpful.
HTH
Mukta
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Thanks, I will see what i can find.
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Hi Rachael!
Just catching up on you progress... Sorry Maya is unwell, hope it passes soon!
I agree, try the sleep remedies. It's worth a shot. 11.5-12 hrs might be what she's wired to do though, and in that case going onto a 'tailored' schedule to allow for a 6am wake up instead is probably the best thing to do. You'd need an 8pm bedtime and then nap at12:30/1 or something. Agree to take it easy during the cold, but I don't think you should worry too much about extending bedtime. The sooner you can do it the sooner she'll be getting used to the new routine IMHO.
HUGS for the 4am wake ups! It must be so hard! xxxx Vicku
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just a quick question for Skatty if she is about, did you try calms forte on Leorah? did they do anything? I have had a quick lok on the net and it appears I can get them here so let me know if they work.
Rachael x
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am not skatty but i had taken Kalms myself and they DID work
hth a little
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Rachael,
me again..we tried Calms forte with DS, it worked but only after I gave him 3 doses with a 15 minute seperation...
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Hi all, well we were up again at 4.30!!! no way she was going back to sleep although ashe was tired as she was just rolling around in cot, I think I will give the homepathic remedies a go I have nothing else to loose but I just dont know how to cope in the meantime it is killing me. Her overall sleep has now dropped to 11hrs in total surely this is way under for her age?
Rachael x
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just to update, she literally fell asleep on my lap at 11am today so I put her down and she slept just under an hr ! now what???
Rachael x
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hi rachael-
sorry you are still struggling, you must be exhausted :-*
for today, i'd try for a late afternoon catnap (maybe 20 mins?) around 4pm, and then bed about 1.45 after she wakes. if she doesn't take a catnap, i'd put her to bed at 5pm. i'm sure that concerns you, as you'll expect a wake up at 4am, but it sounds like Maya is super OT. have you been doing wi/wo when she wakes? i'd be tempted to do some kind of ap, just to get her some more sleep.
(((hugs))) in the meantime.
leslie
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hugs sweetie I feel your pain.
I would give the homeopathy a go and have u heard of millpond?
http://www.mill-pond.co.uk/
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Just updating, if anyone is still listening to me moan! Maya only took an hr yesterday although she was awake at 4.30 I still did not put her to bed until 7pm as hubby came home early and he totally disagrees with early bed anyway she slept til 5.30!!!! which is so much better however still only 11.5 hrs given her shorter nap and 7hrs pre bedtime, what is going on with this child of mine?
Rachael x
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So sorry sweetie, had not abandoned you, B was going for x13 NW nights in a row + conjunctivitus so was bit tied up, but I am back!!
I guess I come back to ignoring A times and clock times at the moment and asking how she seems in herself. Is she still miserable on waking? seems tired? drops off easily in the car if been up for 2+ hours? how is she settling for naps / bed time now?
This to me helps you decide if you can carry on with trying to have a fixed day and accept that she will vary between longer nights and longer naps, or tackle potential OT with occasional early bed times etc
HUGS again
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Ok, where to start! She fell asleep in car on the way back from town today at 11am yes she is miserable on waking and most of the day she has a very wilful streak and is much worse when not had much sleep. I am not sure if she is more difficult because she is tired or because I am but at the moment I hate being mom as I am even to tired to do the fun stuff, and obssessing over sleep wears me out too. I am so sorry to go on but my sanity is is real jepoday here and I hate being a snappy mom and dont want maya to see me upset all the time either.
Rachael x
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hmm, falling asleep on way BACK from town when been awake from 5.30 seems reasonable! Not sign of it on the way?
If she happier going down for naps / sleep?
When you say much worse when not had much sleep do you mean by her standards or the average??
And when you say miserable on waking, how exactly is she? What I mean is that B rarely wakes up happy and babbling, even when she has had lots of sleep, shes a grumpy waker like her mummy! she moans a bit then calls for company. But when OT she moans and crawls round the cot, lies back down allot then gets back up again and again ie trying to resettle and cant
sorry for questions, just trying to get some clues!!!
and i totally understand about your obsession and depression, it must be really wearing you out
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rach hun, massive hugs, It really hurst to read your posts as I know all too well how you feel..... i did EVERYTHING i could to sort out DD's sleep so i feel your frustration. Have you spoken to her pead about it all?
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Hi yes I went to the doc's today tbh I have been trying for ages and no one seems to care, today I went to the pharmacy and asked there and broke down and then went to my clinic to see someone and they said they were too busy so I broke down there too and refused to leave. Anyway I got to see a midwife who said 9hrs is good sleep! although they have said they will help me with my issues which I appreciate however the sleep issue is what is making me lower and until that is fixed I dont know what to do.
Rachaelx
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oh hun, I do understand. Both my DD's had digestive issues as babies which went on for months and all I really ever got was "they will grow out of it" which of course they do but it rules your life, you just want an answer!!!! seriously they use sleep deprivation as a form of torture and thats what you are going through. I cried any time a HV asked me how I was....
and although you love your little one, being so tired will impact on all your feelings
The problem as well is HVs will only say leave them to CIO which I assume you dont support and I am not sure it would work anyway. Have you checked out the link above, may be worth a try, but dont think we have abandoned you or all hope.
are you doing the basics - taking it in turn with DH (or MIL occasionally), having a lie in etc. I KNOW you dont want to do this forever and want a solution but it will help your energy levels
E x
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Rach, I'm giving you soooooo much love. So, do you have a dx of digestive issues? She's behaving as if she WANTS sleep; a child who is good with 9 hours of sleep would act happy! Not fall asleep in the car or be wound up (like we know all 1 year olds can get wound up).
My son had awful reflux as a baby and then had a lot of sensitivities to foods as well. His sensitivities usually caused him to get stomach aches and/or runny poo. We never saw rashes or the classic signs of a full-blown allergy. But it was enough to cause him pain and disrupt his sleep. Have you ever thought of taking her to a naturopath? They often can look at DELAYED reactions to foods (rather than an instant allergy/reaction), which may be something that is disrupting your DD's sleep. The fact that she's never been a very good sleeper makes me wonder if she's got an underlying sensitivity that is giving her tummy aches or discomfort. Sometimes even a minor reaction will cause a child discomfort.
Girl, lots of love. Anyone in your position would feel just as you do. I suffer from chronic migraines, and I know when I'm in a bad h/a phase (days and days of headaches) I am not able to properly enjoy being a mom. That's only natural! The PP is right -- get some help in. Hire a teenager to come over for an hour in the afternoon to allow you to nap or just have some time to yourself. Here, a teenager only costs $5/hour. Even in households where money is tight, most people can come up with the $5 to get back some sanity. It's worth it, even if you have to cut back on something else. Please take care of yourself. We will do our best to help you with the sleep, but in the meantime do whatever you can to get the rest YOU need. :-*
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(((HUGS)) (((HUGS))) and more (((HUGS))). I know all too well how hard it is to function on such little sleep.
Have you ever tried osteopathy? I have spoken to several moms recently who swear it has fixed all that ails their child. I am thinking I am going to take this route myself as 18 months of no sleep is killing me softly. Do get some help in. My mom comes every Thursday. I never sleep, but I do get some down time for shopping or just watching tv. Speak to your doctor as well about how you have been feeling about your sanity. I know all too well about being obsessed about sleep and it running your life and taking over your every thought. Feel free to send me a message if you need to talk or vent.
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hugs rachael...I wish I had any better ideas...but you know of my ongoing struggle with Ds and sleep....
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Thanks guys, I really appreciate all your support. i do feel a litle better today and hubby is off tommorow and the weekend so that will take some pressure off too. I dont know what I would do without your help, it just helps to talk sometimes. Jc's mom we tried osteopathy when she was younger and it did not work for us obviously!
Last night she was so tired by about 5pm but I stretched her out til 7pm again and we got 1 nw at around 10.30 for an hr however she is still a little congested and I had been giving meds the last few nights but did not last night as I thought it had cleared up so that and a combi of OT prob contirbuted to the nw. She still woke at 5.10 but how weird is this she was happy when she woke and not crying like normal just shouted mom and dad for about an hr on and off and I went in at 6.10! so at least i could still rest. Wonder if this was because her dad was the one that settled her last night, and she knows he ignores her more where I am more of a soft touch?
I still think that even though she is getting less sleep than she should be I think she stills needs less than average so I may have to go cold turkey and stretch bed time out a little and hope this leads to a later start after a wk but obs this could backfire big time also!!!
Rachael x
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Big big hugs Rachael! I know this must be so so hard on you and it's not strange at all that you're feeling like you do. Sleep deprivation is the worst thing! You can only take it for so long... I agree about getting some help in, you shouldn't have to cope on your own and DH's help might not be enough to get you all through this.
I had a friend who took her DD to an Osteopath for colic and it really made a difference so maybe it could help Maya too to sleep better. If you decided to try this look for someone with a lot of experience with babies/young children. I also agree thatit might be worth going to a naturopath and look for food sensitivities. There is so much available outside of traditional medicine. You musn't give up though honey!
Must have been so hard to go to the clinic without really being heard :(
My DD also have only slept 8.5 and 9hrs the last few nights (instead of 10.5) and I really notice the difference already in her mood as she's not had enough rest.
Is it always you who go to her in the am? Agree that you should try to have some lie ins (with ear plugs!) as at least that will help you deal with things without feeling as though you're going insane.
All my love sent! :-*
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Hi again...
Posted at the same time :)
Glad you're feeling a little better and DH is home for a few days!
I agree try to stretch out bedtime if at all possible. It might be worth it just to 'force' her to take her 9-10 hrs later so you get later mornings. I know it is risky and could back fire but, I'd do it too :-*
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Thanks again for you encouragement Vicku, I dont think I can make much worse by stretching bedtime I have tried everything else. Tbh we are off out on Saturday night and will have to take her with us anyway so we may as well start there as things will be all over anyway.
Rachael x
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Hi there
just to add - I use ear plugs, eye cover AND pillow over my head. not sexy but it works and sometimes I go into the deepest sleep on my lie ins because I am relaxing properly. Also things like Bachs rescue remedy or other homeopathic ideas may help YOU relax properly when you get a chance, you may not be getting the right quantity of sleep but quality also counts
E x
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Quick note, Maya has been horrid this morning even more than usual her temperment has been very bad throwing tantrums for nothing. Anyway I have put her down for 11am as by 10am tbh she was looking really tired and whiny so no way could I push any further plus she was driving me crazy! so I am now going to put my feet up and try to rest up a little, I know I was feeling brave earlier when I posted saying i was going to keep her up but I am not sure I can cope on my own with her until that time so I may try an earlier bed time today as she has had little sleep and see if we get a longer night even though I know it will stil lbe an early start. But my question is do you think this is a good idea and what time would you go for? i am guessing she will only nap for around 1hr and it is unlikely she will take a nap later and tbh when she has done she wont go to bed so early and then she still gets a ashort night as she wakes the same time anyway.
going to lie down now yay, stuff the housework.
Rachael x
Rachael x
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Now I know she is really OT. She slept 1hr as predicted but she was really upset and when I went in she was tossing around in the cot , I ay my hand on her and she started to drop back off but as soon as I left the room she shouted me bit was still lying down which never happens at nap times in fact the last time i had to watch her sleep for naps was when she was a baby. I eventually left after about 20 mins so now that changes things for tonight, how would you play it now?
Cheers,
Rachaelx
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Well in a way its good because you are getting a reminder of how she is when really OT IFKWIM? And good that she went back to sleep, even if you were there with her, we have to do that with B still sometimes
I guess it depends on how she is when she wakes and how long she sleeps for now, but if she wakes about 1.30 then bed at 7?
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she prob only slept until 12.50 so i think I am going to go with 6.30 do you think this is ok? She had a full hr of solid sleep then she was dozing from 12-12.20 as she was waking every time i left up til then, then i left and she slept pretty solid again til 12.50ish.
Rachael x
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sorry i missed you , very late night at work
hope all went ok
that hard to resettle then sleeping for 30mins thing is definately a "bethany when OT" thing...........
Hope you get some rest
E x
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Well we aimed for a 6.30 bedtime and she fell asleep by 6.40 no nw'w and awake at 5.20am!! yay nearly 11hrs.
Rachaelx
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i put her down for an earlier nap today at 11.15 as she was already tired by 10ish and she only slept an hr again, I can see my day getting earlier and finishing earlier already!
Rachaelx
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Hi Rach
Would it be worth trying for a late catnap just a 20min one which would help you push bedtime later. I know she may still wake early and not go back to sleep again with wi/wo but if you was to stick with this pattern, allowing of course for her 'usual' night lenth and nap length of say 1.5hrs. So if she takes 1hr nap then give max 30min catnap and later bedtime. If she really only wants/needs a short night you should find that her mornings will extend after a while to suit the later bedtime. just a thought honey.
HUGE HUGS to you sweety.
Lots of Love
Nik
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I'm so sorry Rach, but remind me again about the 2 nap scenario --
Let's say you gave her a 10-15 minute siesta at 10, and then didn't give her another nap until around 2:30. Would she not sleep at 2:30? How would that work? Because in that scenario even if she only slept for an hour at 2:30, that takes you to a 3:30 waking and easily to a 7:30 bedtime. Even with only a 10 hour night, that gives you a 5:30 waking, which is better than 4:30!
But I remember 2 didn't work for you before, I just can't remember why. Just wondering if we can tweak the 2 nap scenario a bit. Since she's waking SO early, 1 nap is going to be a big challenge for her.
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Hi guys, well the last 2-3 days we have had later starts approx 5.20-5.30 but I have gone for earlier bedtimes so still unsure if the short nights were due to OT or that she needs a shorter night. This real fall in sleep has only been since we have been doing the btc scenario I think she was just too pushed, and she always seems to do better at 6.30 bed rather than later it is funny how a 6,30 bed will give a 5.15 ish wake but 7pm gives 4.30??? anyway the only reason we went to btc was so i could push her day out but obs that has not worked so we are oging to have to go back wards i think for a while why she gets over this OT if she can be consistent for a few days waking at 5.30 with an earlier bedtime then maybe I can asses if she needs a shorter night as I guess when she has " caught up" mornings could get earlier again. anyway we have a busy weekend on and todya we have been out as I need a break from all this jggling naps ets, and as hubby is off it is not so bad to deal with. So we shall start afresh again on Monday and if it does not work then we will have to give 2 naps a go again.
Rachaelx
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ok yesterday did 2 naps bed at 8pm up at 4.50!!!!
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also meant to aadd 2 nap was not planned it was just we were out and got caught in traffic on way back and she fell asleep at 5pm she was so tired we could not keep her awake.
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Hi again Rachael. I don't know if you remember me but we "chatted" a while back on another of your threads. I'm so very sorry to hear things haven't improved for you since then with Maya's EW :(
Could you just refresh my memory as to how old Maya is?
I have a couple of quns if you wouldn't mind. You may or may not have posted this before - and I'm sure you would have already considered this - but what is the situation in her room around EW time? Is there a sharp temperature drop in the early morning such as would cause her to wake, or do the birds start up then? Does she have a darkened room? Does she have a dummy, is she a thumbsucker or comfort item girl? Does she have a bottle of milk before bed or at the EW time? Does she want to eat immediately upon waking? How does she eat during the day and particularly at dinner time? When she wakes, how long do you leave her to potentially resettle?
I did think that Maya's bedtime was possibly too late, considering the EW and short day nap. Although I recognise they're all different, just to give you an example, DS2 is nearly 21 months and his A time before his nap is roughly 5 hours and even after a 2 hour nap (12 to 2 approx) he's almost begging for bed by 6.30. I just cannot stretch him out any longer - but he does display very clearcut tired signs. He has developmental delay and does not speak as yet, but he will nod "yes" to the qun "do you want to go to bed?" Bless him! He even points to his cot when I'm giving him a final cuddle, as if to say "just let me be, I want to go to sleep". I almost certainly think the longer it takes her to fall asleep at night, the more OT she is. And of course we all know an EW is a classic sign of overtiredness. It can also be a sign that the first nap of the day is too early - which I know is a catch 22 with an EW.
Unless she is sick, if you have had Maya on one nap a day for a while now, I personally wouldn't go back to giving her two. IMHO, I think it would be a step backwards. Her internal body clock needs to know it's only getting one nap a day to extend that nap, IMO.
I would also try working on the 12 hour day principle, ie bedtime roughly 12 hours after waking, especially with a shortened nap. Now, I do realise some mornings she's waking at 4.30 and it would be ludicrous to make 4.30 p.m. her bedtime, but I would try and make bedtime as early as possible to combat OT.
Also, it would be helpful to know her demeanour later in the day. Does her behaviour change, is she irritable and whingey? Does she merely pick at dinner? If I saw a couple of yawns later in the afternoon, I'd be putting her to bed soon thereafter.
In my experience, I would also find if either of my boys woke super early and not resettle themselves (I'd always leave them at least 20 mins and definitely listen for the type of cry/whinge) then I'd have a much better chance of resettling at say 3.30 a.m. than 4.30 - it's like still dead of night, rather than early morning iykwim. So if you're worried an earlier bedtime might mean an earlier start to the day, based on her track record of 10.5 hours overnight, I should think you'd have more success getting her back to sleep then rather than >4.30. Just a thought.
Can I also ask what happens for her day nap? Actually, it might be helpful to go back a bit before then. Does she have a decent morning tea snack? Why I ask is that when my youngest was making that transition from 2 to 1 naps, he would get really sleepy around what would normally be his first nap time. It's like his body was so programmed to being ready for sleep around 9 a.m. I would make this snack time - give him a hearty snack and big drink. As well as being a distraction, it really did perk him up a bit. Just something you could try. That's when I'd also engage in something stimulating with him, like getting out in the fresh air. Speaking of, does Maya get much outdoor time? Why I ask is that there have been studies done showing that kids who get a decent amount of exposure to sunlight during the day sleep better at night. Something about melatonin (sp?) levels.
I think I've pretty much exhausted what I had to say, except to tell you that one of the best purchases we ever made was a video monitor. You may or may not already have one. We don't use the volume (turn that right off!) but it is fantastic for checking on your lo when they cry out at night. Sometimes DS wakes (dream?) and will cry or scream briefly, or sometimes even he'll just moan and whinge for what seems like an eternity. Often times when I look at the monitor he's not even moving a muscle! Of course if he's sitting up in his cot or got an arm or leg stuck through the bars, I know I'm needed then! It truly is the best investment we've made. It might be something that will help give you peace of mind when Maya wakes early - to see what she's actually doing when she wakes, whether she's thrashing around or seems to be just calling out in her sleep. It is possible by going in to her too early that you might be fully waking her up from what's merely a normal partial awakening. I think you're also more likely to leave them in there for a little longer if you can see that they're actually ok. It's when you can't see them that your mind starts questioning whether they're alright, don't you think? I bought ours off ebay and can send you the link if you're interested.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I think of you often and that I know you must be tearing your hair out trying to hit upon a routine that works for Maya and your family. It must be so exhausting to have to focus so hard on something that should be so natural and easy - sleep!! But you will get there!
I think I did mention on another thread about consistency too. If you're trying a btc routine, give it a good go, like a week or two. Give it a chance to actually work. You may be surprised! Hope all that helps xo
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Hi Rachel
just want to let you know I am still here! We have had a period of NWs (teeth? who knows) and this has led to a OT phase and a bit of overdependancy on us so we are back to WIWO. Did not think we would be abck to this mess again but hey ho!!
Have to say allot of what has happened has made me think of you. The reluctance to go back to sleep, naps reducing, EWs (we could have swapped posts at 5am!) so I am still of the thought that a combination of BW type sleep training and dealing with OT will help you but it is really hard to advise what to do next. Nike give some great support and advice!!
(could you let me know the link re monitors on ebay think I would like one!!)
But also glad to hear you are having some time off from sleep duty, you really deserve it and hope went well.
Will post again soon (if not asleep!)
E x
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Will reply in full later when I have no toddler keep pushing key board! but in a nutshell last night we were out for my dads birthday and had to take maya with us, needless to say bedtime was late at 9pm, she woke at 5.18 (her magic time the last 2-3 days) I did manage to get her back off after 40mins or so and she slept a while longer but still only 10hrs in total!!!
Rachael x
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Hi Rachael!
Just want to say I'm still here too following your progress. Glad you've got some really good advice and support and hope things will stabilise soon so you decide which route to stick with.
Lots of love, have a good Sunday and get some rest in for yourself!
xxxxxxx Vicku
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Just wanted to add we got a long nap today just over 1.40 but tbh she has had short naps and short nights for days now so prob shattered.
Hi Nike, thanks for thinking of me. I have literally looked at all things that may be keeping maya awake at that time and failed miserably it can range anywhere from 4.30-5.18 alrthough it has been the later for a few days now.
She has justg turned 20 months, her room is so dark so I know it is not the light, room is quite warm, I have just started putting her higher tog sleeping bag on incase this was the case, no difference though. She has a dummy and a comforter, although it does not make a difference if I give it her back as she still wont settle, plus previously I would hear her wake and she would resettle herself so no idea what has started this.
Maya did go through a lovely stage where she asked for bed but that soon changed. I am reluctant to go back to 2 naps as she wants her 1st nap so early that our day is just shifting earlier anyway and I dont want her to think she can wake early so she can rest a short while later.
i have startted giving her a morning snack before she takes her nap to keep her going, and she gets a decent amount of fresh air, although at the mo the weather has been so bad we have not been out as much although I still have not noticed it being anybetter if we are out/in have lots going on or not!
I also do leave her 15 mins or so before going in but she shows no sign of giving up and finally we tried btc for 2 weeks but no change, although I might try again but not so late with everything as the A times were so long we have ended up in Ot land big time.
I hope I have answered most of your questions, and thanks again for thinking of me.
Take care and if you think of anything else please let me know.
Rachael x
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Hi Rachael. With Maya being 20 months now, then I definitely wouldn't go back to 2 naps.
You mentioned giving her a "small snack" before she has her nap, which I assume would be her one and only day nap? Do you think giving her an early lunch or something more subtantial than just a snack might mean she will sleep a bit longer with a fuller tummy? Can you post your routine with snacks and meals included? I usually feed the boys lunch around 11.30 a.m. with a view to having DS2 in bed by 12 p.m. Morning tea is generally around 9.30-ish but my guys are big snackers, so they usually have 11ses as well ;D
What sort of eater in general is she? It's a long shot, but could it be possible she's waking early from being hungry? That's why I asked in my last reply how she eats, particularly the evening meal, and whether she wants food immediately upon waking. If she does wake at, say, 4.30 a.m. can you tell me what your routine is then? Do you get her up and go straight into breakfast, a milk drink, play, what? Have you tried just giving her a little sip of water in case it's just thirst and then resettling back to sleep?
Another thought: is she still in a cot by any chance? Not wanting to complicate things even more but some people do seem to have success with changing sleeping patterns when they put their lo into a bed.
On a day when she's up super early and takes a short nap, have you ever tried a really early bedtime of like 6 p.m.? Just wondering if it's worth seeing how she goes with a much earlier bedtime and trialing that for a while, helping her catch up on some sleep. She's waking early anyhow, so even if she wakes at the same time but is getting an extra hour from the earlier bedtime, that's already an hour she's caught up on iykwim.
I don't know how hectic your lifestyle is, or even whether you work or she's in daycare or not, but it might also be worth having a couple of "home days" to try and get into a bit of a routine. Have a really stimulating morning, weather permitting of course, and definitely no trips in the car during which she might fall asleep and put everything out. A couple of snacks during the morning when she starts getting weary, lots of drinks of water, a substantial early lunch with or without a milk drink, and then a good wind-down before her nap. Hopefully then she might take a longer nap which will push the day out a bit - still aiming for an early bedtime. She has a lot of catching up to do!!
FWIW (again recognising they're all different) this is our routine. DS is 21 months:
6.30-7: wake, water or diluted juice in sippy
7.30: breakfast
9: go out, run earrands, playgroup, baby gym, shopping, whatever
9.30 - 10.30: morning tea usually whilst out
11.30 (closer to 11 if he wakes earlier): lunch, quiet play while I clean up which gives him a chance to do his poo!
12.00: nap
2.30-3: wake and drink, play
3.30: afternoon tea, play
5 - 5.15: dinner, dessert, play
6: bath
6.30: bottle
6.45: bed
He is usually cactus by bedtime and asleep within 5 minutes.
Just out of curiosity, when she took the 1.40 nap (which is fantastic!) did you put her to bed later by any chance? I think some ppl do fall into the trap of thinking that they had a longer day nap and therefore won't be ready for bed at normal time. In her case it sounds as though she might need to have a permanent earlier bedtime, perhaps 6.30 or however early you can manage. A btc routine has always worked with my boys. I've had my mother visiting recently and several times after lunch she's said to me "There's no way that boy is going to go to sleep - look at him, he's full of beans", which he might appear to be, but I know he will always take a good nap around midday. I literally tell him it's sleepy time, give him his sooky blanket, take him into his room, change his nappy and pop him into bed. It might just be a question of hitting upon Maya's magic nap/bedtime, iykwim.
Anyway, just some things to think of. Good luck!
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Hi again. Well we got a 6am start today, yay!!! i think this was down to shorter A times and the fact she is knackered. On sat nt she went to bed at 9pm woke at 5.18 got her back to sleep after approx 40 mins and slept til 7.40 so i could push nap out a little at 1pm she slept 1.40 and i put her to bed at 7.30 and she fell straight to sleep. Obviously if it is downto A times then with a 6am start i cant see how i can push day out but at least she has had more sleep overall, however that said the little she has haad recently it makes sense.
When Maya wakes early we dont leave room til 6am at the earliest so she never has milk until after that and breakfast about 1hr after. She is not the best eater and lunch is her worst meal of the day alhtough her weight is on target.
As regards to our days we have a good balance really we tend to do evrything round her naps as I am so obssesed with her getting one so if we go out we are bback for nap time and the same for pm activity we make sure we are back to stick to our routine. Very occasionally we take a break from it and once in a while we will take a day out where she just has to sleep on the go but as i say very rare.
Thanks again Nike for your support.
Rachael x
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Just quickly Rachael -
slept til 7.40 so i could push nap out a little at 1pm she slept 1.40 and i put her to bed at 7.30
Like I was saying about falling into the trap of thinking a later wake-up means later nap, and longer nap means later bedtime - considering Maya's history of OT and EW, I would have put her down by 12 p.m. at the latest for the nap, hoping she gives a longer nap due to not being so OT, and then bed by 6.30 p.m. again at the latest. IMO, 1 p.m. and 7.30 p.m. are too late for both nap and bedtime. WDYT?
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Hi Nike, I actually agree with you but my hubby takes Maya to church on a sunday morning and he could not get back any earlier this wk as he had to drop his cousin off at football practice so it was unaavoidable yesterday. Btw I have put her down at 11.30 for her nap as she was so tired this morning, what do you think I should do re naps and bedtime? I am just so worried that she may only need 10hrs at night and therefore a 6.30 bedtime will mean we are back to 4.30 again.
Rachaelx
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Btw awake at 12.50 so only 1hr 20mins!!!!
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RACHPEM -- it sounds like even with a 7:30 bedtime you're getting a 5 am latest waking, right? I think I would be inclined to try a REALLY early bedtime and see what happens. Just mentally prepare yourself for a very EW, and then you may be surprised if she sleeps a bit longer. Your child just sounds soooooo tired. My son always does 10 hour nights when he's OT. I think you are in a chronic OT cycle. I really really do. Is there any way you could have your mom come over and take that 4:30 am waking for you if you put her down extra early (even 6 pm would be good!)? Maybe if you knew no matter what YOU get to sleep in, then you could take the leap of faith and put her down extra early for bed, just as an experiment to see what happens.
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Hi Becky I am so glad you answered I was a little unsure of what to do tonight. Maya did sleep til 6am this morning with a 7,30 bedtime but like I said not sure if that is just because she is shattered as she has hardly had any sleep over the last few days/nights. My mom passed away last year so i dont have anyone who can help out apart from my mil but she works she prob would have her at the weekend though. So you would go for 6pm? she is already tired and has been since about 3ish!
Rachael x
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I'm sorry I wasn't able to hop back on the PC last night. Rachael, did you give Maya a 7.30 p.m. bedtime after the 1 hr 20 nap?
she is already tired and has been since about 3ish!
I think there's your answer! She's showing very clear tired signs, so she needs a super early bedtime, like I said in a couple of previous posts - and seconded by Becky. Are you worried about the repercussions of an early bedtime? I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but you've got nothing to lose right? Even if she does wake early (which she does already anyway) by going to bed early she's adding an extra hour or so onto her total sleep. You might just be surprised over a couple of days of playing catch-up how things might just fall into place and you'll hit upon that magic extension of night sleep - plus a decent nap thrown in for good measure!
Btw, my sleep bible says to tackle EW go for an early bedtime but to stick with it for AT LEAST 4 DAYS. I think way back in an earlier post (on one of your other threads) I mentioned consistency. For anything to work you've got to give it a decent go, don't you think?
Please don't beat yourself up about it all. Take one day at a time and maybe look at this as a fresh start. Forget how she's slept in the past and focus on giving her a nap as close to midday as you can (perhaps no earlier than 11) with a good meal and wind-down beforehand. Give her a lovely warm bath and put her into her pj's if you have to!! If she has a good nap (anything over 1.5 hours in my books) then a bedtime still no later than 6.30 p.m. From reading your posts, I think you're a girl after my own heart - you crave consistency and predictability, so a "flexible" btc routine might be the way to go ;) If she only takes a short nap (1 hour or less) then I would get her into bed for the night by 6 p.m. at the latest. That's 6 p.m. for sleep. So do all your bedtime routine early enough to allow for sleep by 6 p.m. What have you got to lose? ;)
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I totally agree with PP. I always tell people it takes a good 3 days for most sleep changes to happen, and sometimes 7 for really ingrained problems. I've told the story often about when we tried to institute the dream feed with my son. The first night he still woke twice more for feeds after his 11 pm dream feed. I wanted to give up! How stupid is feeding him at 11 pm only to have to do it 3 hours later? But my DH made me stick with it. 3 days later, it still wasn't working. But 7 days later VOILA! He was sleeping from 11 pm to 5 am. He just needed time.
I totally get being afraid to try the REALLY early bedtime. You're so exhausted, all you need is a 4 am wake-up! :o Good lord, that would scare the pants off me too! But early bedtimes usually lick this type of problem (after enough time). I tell you, I'd be half-inclined to hire someone -- a high school kid, even -- to be at your house first thing in the morning to take care of that early waking if it happens so that you can get some decent sleep. A high school kid could go in and play with her until 6:30 am, a more decent waking for you. I personally think after 2-3 days you'll be seeing her have a better wake-up time! Which will help naps and then will help bedtime get moved to a more normal time. But she just needs a few early nights to help her break this awful sleep pattern she's in. High school kids can be pretty cheap! Do you guys have any cousins/nieces/nephews who would like to earn a few bucks by sleeping at your house a couple of nights? A big pancake breakfast in the morning might be added incentive! ;) MIL on the weekend is a fine alternative too. Grandmother's often have more patience than we do. And I know my MIL tends to be an early riser because her bladder doesn't let her
sleep too late! ;D
And PP has it RIGHT on the nose: 6 pm is IN BED READY FOR SLEEP. This is hard to accomplish, but pays off gang-busters. It only has to work once and your life will change. Seriously, the first time she sleeps from 6 pm to 7 am you'll know that things are fixed. Your nap will then be at a more reasonable time to works for her (say noon, which will only be 5 hours A time), she'll be rested enough to take a 2 hour nap, and then you can do a 6:30/7 pm bedtime without stretching her little system!
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Hi guys, as I missed your posts I planned for a 6.30 bedtime, she did not fall asleep until 6.45 and woke at 12.30 briefly, I think she heard my hubby coming to bed butshe did settle herslef after around 30 mins. She woke at 4.50 and dropped back off after 30 mins for 20 mins, so still 10ish hrs with the wakings etc, which does still make me wonder if she will ever sleep more than thaat as she never has slept much from birth.
I will give the earlier bedtimes a go, but my hubby is so opposed to it he thinks her body clock is set at that tme and if we offer a later bedtime after a wk or so she will get used to the later time.
I am also not sure she will ever do a 2hr nap either, this only tends to happen when she is ill at best we get 1,30.
What time would you aim for nap today?
Cheers Rachael x
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It's great that she is self-settling during the night. With a couple of NW's and another EW, I would still stick by nap around 11-11.30 and then bed by 6 or 6.30, Rachael.
Why not give the early bedtime a go first and hopefully you can prove DH wrong *wink* in regard to a later bedtime = later wake-up.
I meant to ask in my last answer, hth do you manage to get her to stay in her bedroom from 4.30 to 6 a.m.???!!! I hope you're treating the EW as a NW, in effect, and offering no attention, play or anything. Personally, knowing she NEEDS more sleep I would wait up to 20 minutes (perhaps longer if she's only whingeing) then go in with a torch or put a nightlight on or something - exactly the same routine as if you're attending to her for a NW'ing. Offer her a drink of water, change her nappy (she might be one of those kids who doesn't like a full, heavy nappy?) and then tell her it's sleepytime still, lay her back down and walk out. Minimal eye contact, minimal attention. I would then leave her again for 20 minutes, or however long you can personally stand. Put a pillow over your head and pop in the earplugs! Remember that she will be clean, have had a drink and based on past experience should not be hungry til at least 7 a.m. from what you've told us. Yes there are some kids who can get by on minimal sleep, but seeing as you're posting here as being "desperate", I assume she can't handle it, therefore you do need to reset her bodyclock iykwim. You might also find those kiddies who do such a short sleep overnight make up for it with a longer nap, which is not the case with Maya.
I still believe the key lies with an early bedtime. Please give it a go, if only to prove your DH wong!!
xo
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Just sending some hugs and support from over here. How did today go?
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Hi vicku, thanks for thinking of me, I am at work today so my mil has her, she took a 1hr 20 min nap just after 11.30. i really dont know what to think now, so many people are telling me she is clearly OT and part of me thinks this but he other half is not sure whether to just go cold turkey and drag bedtime out , thinking she is only ever going to do 10-10,5 at night.
Rachael x
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I understand that must be so so confusing. I think you just have to go with your own instinct in the end on what to try... Also trying the really early bedtime for a few days might be worth it in case it works, it can't really make things THAT much worse, and if that doesn't help then go for the other route of fitting her sleep needs around a decent schedule ??? Anyways I'm thinking of you and hoping things will improve very soon! :-*
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Quick update ,asleep at 6.30 woke at 12 ish briefly, woke at 5am ignored her til 6.30. I think she dropped back off between 5.45 til 6.30 so at least she had a little more sleep.
Rachaelx
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Rachael, that's fantatic! Do you realise she slept effectively 12 hours ;D I realise she woke briefly overnight and then in the morning, but I mean without your intervention. A huge leap forward towards getting onto a decent schedule.
Do you think it was the earlier bedtime? How did she nap yesterday? Can you keep us updated with wake-up, nap and bedtime, just out of curiosity?
How do you feel? ;)
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Hi Nike, she only napped 1hr 20 mins yesterday. And i=of course I will keep you upto date with everything, I kind of have to it helps me feel so much better when I do. I would be even more lost without this website and all your support,
Thanks again.
Rachaelx
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Hi all, Maya slept for 1.5 hrs today, still at 11.30 so again I had her in bed for 6.30. Should I stay with this for a few days and see what happens? I must admit she did not appear at all tired tonight although she has gone straight to sleep.
Rachael x
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thats fab Rachel, fyi Lily never seems tired at bedtime but all being well is always asleep within 5/10mins. I think if they are obviously tired then your heading to OT land. Def keep it up for a few days and see where wake up goes from there :-)
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FWIW, Lois never seems tired at bed or naptime usually but will go to sleep quickly most of the time. Only if she's had a really short nap cos of being out and about, or mised sleep some other way will she seem obviously tired, so really only when OT or ill.
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Hi Rachael. I think you're heading towards a routine...yay ;D
Remember, consistency, consistency, consistency!! 1.5 hours is a great nap for her ;D Stick with the 6.30 p.m. bedtime. The fact she's dropping off straight away is a great sign. It's when they fluff around and take ages to settle that they're either OT or not sleepy enough in an otherwise well-rested child.
I think I mentioned in another of my posts that my little guy also doesn't appear tired for his nap particularly, although gives clear tired signs of wanting to go to bed at night. Remember my mother commenting that "he doesn't look tired" but I could just pick him up and put him to bed and he'd roll over and go to sleep. Seems Maya is like this too, so you need to take control of her sleep times.
Should I stay with this for a few days and see what happens?
ABSOLUTELY!! I'd say four days at least, but you might have hit upon the magic bed time with 6.30. Stick with the consistent nap time (11.30ish) and bed time (6.30ish) and I can guarantee you things will improve ;D
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Morning all. Maya slept till 5.30!!!! 11hrs unteruppted sleep yay. So do I still stick with said times even though 11.30 will make 6hrs A time?
Thanks, I know it is early days but I could not have done this without all your help and support.
Rachae;x
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FABULOUS ;D ;D ;D
Maybe try 11/11.30, depending on how she's coping. There's nothing wrong with giving her an earlier lunch and then a nap at this time (hopefully she'll be a bit more rested to be able to take a longer nap) and then please, please, stick with the early bedtime. When she catches up a bit, she'll move her day forward, wake up later in the morning and then you can start pushing lunch and nap closer to the middle of the day. I'd tread very slowly for a while, Rachael. Be consistent. No more 7.30 p.m. bedtime!!
I'm so thrilled for you ;D ;D
Btw, if she wakes early again, don't be disheartened. Give the new routine a good chance to work.
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Just a little update, Maya took another 1.5 nap infact i think it was just over in bed by 6.30 but prob nearer 6.45 by the time she fell asleep.
Rachael x
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Another great nap for her ;D What time did you put her down? How did she appear compared to previously I mean?
You're doing a great job, but I would try to be really strict about the bedtime now. If you can manage it, aim to have her actually settled in her cot by 6.30 at the latest. I think 15 minutes/1/2 an hour can make all the difference in her case.
Here's to you all catching some huge Z's tonight ;D
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Hey glad to hear things are on an up (keeping fingers crossed). I wanted to say that we got through our OT thing but agree with what everyone said about things taking time - it took a good 4 days of early to bed and precise napping to get back on track, and this was after just a realtively brief period of being OT. Jus reminded me so much of what you are going through
But guess what, she has got another cold so may well be able to give you some more "recent experience" thoughts!!
Nike - could you please send me the link re video monitor? the latest OT bout has reminded me it may still be useful!!
E x
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Hey Emma. Happy to hear things have settled down for you, too. ;D
Can't remember where you're at (I'm in Australia) but here is the link anyway:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-WIRELESS-VIDEO-COLOUR-NIGHT-VISION-BABY-MONITOR-SET_W0QQitemZ230291432937QQihZ013QQcategoryZ150586QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Ours was $140, express postage included. I literally bought it in the morning and it was in our letterbox the next day. If you're wondering about the night vision, it really does work. DS's room is totally blacked out for day and night sleeps. I only wish I'd had one for DS1, but they were so expensive back then. HTH.
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Morning all. Maya woke at 5am this morning again, and I know you said this could happen but now what ? If I stick to 11,30 nap time this makes 6.5 hrs A time wont we get into OT again? but if I bring it forward my day is going to be shifted the other way which obviously you can imagine I really dont want. I know she did a 11 hr nt the other day but I really cant see her doing more than 10.5 as I think the 11 was just due to the fact she had slept so little and was just catching up. This morning I left her til 6am and she never fell back to sleep and seemed quite content. So what can I do ?
Rachaelx
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She still rested til 6 a.m., so that's a good thing. Still aim for an 11/11.30 nap, but watch closely for tired signs. Tone the playing down right before nap and do early lunch and straight into bed. If she only sleeps 1.5 hrs from 11, I'd be aiming for bedtime no later than 6 p.m. You don't want 6 hours in the a.m. and then 6 again in the p.m.
Does she have her best A time in the morning or afternoon? I only ask bc my DS2 can manage 6 hours quite well in the morning and then a shorter A time in the arvo, but if you reverse that he ends up a screaming heap :(
Atm I think you're looking at a 5-6 a.m. wakeup, 11-11.30 nap, 6-6.30 bedtime. Not too confusing.
Let us know how you get on.
Edited to add:
if I bring it forward my day is going to be shifted the other way which obviously you can imagine I really dont want
You are only allowing her to catch up on missed sleep and reversing the OT cycle. As soon as she catches up you can then look at progressively shifting the day back 15, 20 minutes at a time. My bet is it's going to take you a little while to get there but hang in there, it will work!
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Thanks Nike , my only prob today is I am working so I wont be able to get Maya into bed until 6.30
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In bed and fast asleep by 6.30 woke at 5.18 this morning and put her down at 11.30 still asleep now!!! do I still do 6.30 even if she sleeps more than 1.5?
Hubby did morning shift this morning so it was lovely and mil is having her tonight as it is our anniversary and we are out I just hope it does not mess her sleep up to much.
Rachaelx
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Hi there
sorry ,missed your post. I would still do 6.30 even if she slept say 1,50 as thats still 5 hours A time, still catching up sont forget
Hope all went well. And nice that you had "your shift" covered - make sure its regular thing! Hope you enjoy your anniversary and night sleep was ok . If I recall correctly she did have a NW or two last time your MIL had her - but dont let it detract from you having some rest time
E x
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HAPPY ANNIVERSARY ;D
Is MIL having her overnight or just putting her to bed? Whilst I recognise you need to be flexible with a sleep schedule, could you ask your MIL to keep to as close a time around 6.30 bedtime as she can? If not, don't stress. Have a great time out, btw ;D
I think you're doing so well, Rachael. Maya's stretching her nap out and going to bed early no dramas. She's also doing a great overnight sleep. Things are looking up!
do I still do 6.30 even if she sleeps more than 1.5?
YES YES YES! Why don't you look at 6.30ish as being her regular bedtime now, just adjust accordingly for night wakings (if any - remember 2nd molars are looming :() Eg, my DS2 is going through what I think is a growth spurt or else his molars are annoying him too. The other night he slept 6.45 til 8 a.m. I put him down at 12.30 p.m. instead of the regular 12 p.m. and I had to wake him again at 3.15 :o I could have put him down later last night bc of all that sleep but I didn't, kept to regular routine and he was asleep by 7 (normally earlier but we were out). He's woken at 6.15 this morning, about 45 mins earlier than usual, but that's obviously due to the loads of sleep he got yesterday. So we're back on track now.
Do you think 6.30 is too early a bedtime or are you worried you'll be stuck with the early wake-ups? My bet is that when she stretches that nap out a bit, is going down happily at bedtime regularly and is waking well rested, hopefully closer to 6/6.30 a.m. (I would give it a while yet ;)) that's when I'd start by pushing her day nap closer to midday and adjust bedtime closer to 7. Don't even consider this just yet!!
WDYT?
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Hi, all had a lovely evening out and a wonderful lie in!! Mil had Maya overnight and she did not do too bad, she did not fall asleep until 7pm although she did have her in bed at 6.15 for a 6.30 bedtime and woke at 5am with 1 tiny nw for 5-10 mins. I am worried I will be stuck with the early wake ups that is why I am so dubious of 6.30 bedtime. But I will stick to it.
Have a good day.
Rachaelx
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Quick update. Maya took her nap at 11.15 as she was sooo tired, slept 1hr 15 mins, and as we had a family gathering in the afternoon I could not get her into bed until 6.45 and she fell asleep at 7.10. She did however sleep until 5.45!
Rachael x
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Hi Rachael. So glad you had a lovely anniversary night with DH ;D ;D It's our 7th wedding anniversary today, coincidentally, but unfort don't have any rellies nearby to babysit so we can go out :( Anyway, both boys are in bed so we're going to kick back in a minute and crack open a bottle of champers to celebrate!
Maya's doing some great catch-up sleeping...touch wood ;D How do you feel? ;)
Maya took her nap at 11.15 as she was sooo tired
This is fantastic bc it means you're really reading her tired cues. 12.30 p.m. (wake-up from nap) til bedtime is a LONG stretch but she did well to get to 5.45 the next morning. You're nearing the magical 6 a.m. mark ;D ;D I have a great feeling that you are really on track to erasing all the OT and moving her day later ;D
Let us know how nap, bedtime, etc goes.
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Happy Anniversary, enjoy your champers!
I know we were so lucky with Maya's wake up this morning as I know it was a huge stretch but unfortunatley we could not help it really, my mom passed away a year ago today and we all got together to spend some time looking at old photos and reminising etc. I can detect Maya's tired signs pretty well but are generally way before she is due to sleep! today we had to go to the supermarket and and 10am her eyes were rolling, managed to keep her awake with a biscuit and put her down at 11.30 so we shall see what today brings.
Enjoy again,
Rachael xxx
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Jumping back in rach, I have been MIA....X
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Just heard her 1 hr 15 mins!!!
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: )
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congrats on the nap and the late wake-up!!
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Ok we messed up a little yesterday for a change! we popped out in the pm and Maya fell asleep in the car around 5pm she could not even keep her eyes open. She napped for only about 10 mins as we were not far from home, I still tried for a 6.30 bedtime as she had to have tea etc ,but although she was happy in her cot she did not fall asleep until 7.15 ish and awake 5.15!!! she was really happy when she woke this morning and no chance of her going back to sleep. I know she drops the occasional longer night in but most nights is still 10 hrs and it feels like this has been going on forever. We have our clocks going back next month, what on earth do I do about that I cant get up at 4am!!!
I just cant reset her body clock., I am so fed up with early bedtimes (for me) and early mornings I never see my hubby and when I do I am so exhausted I just want to sleep.
Help!!!!
Rachael x
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Sorry you're feeling disheartened, Rachael. I do think you're making progress though, don't you? When was your last pre-5 a.m. wake-up? ;)
I am so fed up with early bedtimes (for me) and early mornings I never see my hubby and when I do I am so exhausted I just want to sleep.
I love early bedtimes ;D ;D Since DS1 (3.5 years) recently dropped his day nap, we have both boys in bed at approx 6.30 p.m. Yes, I practically collapse in exhaustion from running around after 2 toddlers all day, and I need an early bedtime too, but I have a lot more time in the evening with DH than most ppl I know. My brother has 3 girls who have absolutely no routine, they just fall asleep wherever and whenever they want. Their 4 year old sometimes goes to bed as late as 11 p.m. :o :o I know which I'd rather ;) But of course Maya has to fit in with your family life, too.
Has anyone asked you yet what her demeanour/behaviour is like generally? Is she a happy little girl generally or is she always tired and cranky? I would think if her bodyclock was really set on no more than 10.5 hours overnight and 1.5 hours nap then she'd be functioning pretty well and generally happy. If her behaviour is othewise then I'd definitely be trying to extend that sleep total as much as I could.
she was really happy when she woke this morning and no chance of her going back to sleep
Well, on this occasion you'd almost excuse her for the EW, wouldn't you? If she's waking happy then she's obviously on her way to catching up on sleep and I think you'll find is on her way towards stretching that nap and wake-up time out. In this event I'd almost certainly keep her up til at least 11.30 a.m. for her nap, maybe even stretch her out another 15 mins. It's all about pushing that day out, remember.
The other alternative I was going to suggest was to work at extending that nap whatever way you can. If you ultimately want a later bedtime then you have to get her napping longer and later into the afternoon. I personally can't see her doing this until she erases all that OT. JMO.
I'm sorry but there's just nothing else I can offer. You're her mummy and if your gut instinct tells you the early bedtime isn't for either of you, then see if anyone else can offer any more suggestions. I really do hope you carry on for a little while at least because I think you're both doing really well.
Btw, I think I mentioned somewhere a couple of pages ago that I'd avoid (if possible) any car trips where you think she might take a catnap which can interfere with either nap or bedtime. For a 6.30 bedtime, I would actually be serving dinner at 5 p.m. Any later and my boys are just too tired to eat. In this situation, if a car trip is unavoidable, I would be plying her with food in the car, maybe some healthy snacks so that if she didn't eat when you got home, she'd still have something nutritious in her tummy. Remember also it's not just about food, it's the DISTRACTION ;D ;D
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hi Nike, I am sorry to moan, you are right I am disheartened, it is just my hubby does not come in til 8.30-9pm most evenings and I am ready for bed at that time, it was also the anniversary of my moms death yesterday so I am feeling pretty blue about that. I am going to stick to the earlier bedtimes I just wish I could get to 6am regular and I promise I will never moan again! She is cranky alot of the time so I do think you are right and she does need more sleep she is already lying on the floor sleepily and it is only 10.30. We very rarely go out if I thik she may fall asleep in the car but I needed to get out yesterday some days I get fed up being stuck in, and unlike you living in oz our weather is not too good esp at the mo with all the rain we keep having it makes the park even difficult.
Anyway please forgive me and dont think I am moaning at you not being able to solve this for me I am really grateful for all your help and advice and like you say it is tons better than it has been, it just seems to have been going on forever and I need to rant once in a while cause noone hear listens, hubby thinks 9pm would be the best bedtime, although if he was hear al lday with her I could bet her bedtime would shift even earlier than 6.30, lol!!!!
Thanks again xxxxx
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This must be a tough time of year for you, especially the first anniversary of your mother's passing. Sending big ((hugs)) your way Rachael.
I'm only sorry I don't have the "miracle" cure for you ??? I can't even imagine how difficult your situation is with getting up so early, day after day, and then having DH arriving back home so late as well. He must feel like he misses out on Daddy-Maya time too. What time does he leave for work in the morning? Could he maybe get up to her more often and let you have a little lie-in? You both could look at this as him getting to spend some quality time with Maya and you getting some quality extra sleep ;)
The only thing I can say is that this won't last forever. Whenever we go through glitches (such as currently toilet training #1, for example) I keep telling myself "well, he won't be wearing nappies when he's 10"...LOL ;D ;D Just think, when Maya's a teenager it's likely you'll be dragging her out of bed in the morning ;D
Oh, and if she's lying on the floor sleepily at 10.30 get her up! Put on some music and get dancing for half an hour - always a great indoor activity! Seriously, you need to push past that tired barrier to get her ready for a nice, long nap. Of course, tone it down closer to early lunch and bed ;)
GL :)
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PS: forgot to say to moan away, that's what we're here for ;D
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Believe me there is no way Maya will be sleeping in as a teen I will have her up as pay back lol. She really resisted nap today and did not go off until 11.50 which I would guess at Ot due to late night last night and prev nt, what do you think? I know I keep harping on at this but do I stick with 6.30 bed tonight?
I know I have to push her out so should i just work on nap for now and keep bed where it is?
Thankyou again xx
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Hi Rach!
I think you are making MARVELOUS progress! I also see a pattern of later and later wakings. When I first became aware of your posts, she was waking at 4:30! You're now consistently getting wakings after 5. That is great! Yes, progress is slow, but just think if in another month she's waking at 6! Wouldn't that be nice?
I also see a pattern of nights when you are unable to get her down early, she is waking earlier. That tells me the early bedtime is working, and as long as your consistent it WILL work. I think what I would do is just terminate all evening activities for 1 week. 1 week isn't that long, right? And in that time, be absolutely consistent with an early bedtime, regardless of time/length of nap. After that week you can go back to your 'normal' life, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you will have changed her naps around and gotten a later waking after that week. In all the posts I've read, I don't think you've made the early bedtime but about every other day at best, and really in order for her to catch up on her sleep she needs consistent early bedtimes, otherwise it's defeating the purpose: OT is OT! Whether she's OT by 30 minutes or by 3 hours, she's going to be OT and wake up early. That's the sad annoying fact about being OT.
That's just my crazy idea! ;) You can tell me to shove it where the sun don't shine, and I'll just do that! ;D
Much love to you on the anniversary of your mom's death. I know it can't be easy, and you must also be so exhausted. I think you are doing such a fabulous job! You'll get to see your DH in the evenings again, I promise. In fact, 1 month from today I predict this problem will be behind you or nearly so. :-*
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HEAR HEAR BECKY ;D ;D
I think what I would do is just terminate all evening activities for 1 week
My thoughts exactly. If you can't do it, just do the best you can. Unfortunately in Maya's case you will have to work hard and consistently at getting her over all that OT...be very vigilant about nap and bedtimes and like Becky said, you will all reap the rewards. I also happen to think one week is a small sacrifice in regard to getting her sleeping back on track. But, hey, it's your call :)
She really resisted nap today and did not go off until 11.50 which I would guess at Ot due to late night last night and prev nt
How long did she nap for?
You said she was falling asleep on the floor at 10.30, right? You need to be doing some stimulating activity with her (or feeding her a snack for energy and distraction) to get over this tiredness hump. Remember I said to have a little dance with her? Then I'd be going into an early lunch and wind-down (possibly a story or nice bath, whatever it is you normally do) and then bed by 11.30. The ultimate aim is to get her to midday-ish but I don't think that will be in the near future til she either (a) lengthens her day nap and pushes the day out, resulting in slightly later bedtime or (b) starts waking later in the morning.
I know I keep harping on at this but do I stick with 6.30 bed tonight?
I think your best bet would be to hover around the 6, 6.15, no later than 6.30 bedtime for now. As I've said before, my DS2 is the same age as Maya and is in bed by 6.30/6.45 (7 p.m. at the latest) every night - that's with a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day (sometimes longer; if he sleeps later, sometimes he's going to bed with only 4 hours A time between finish of nap and bedtime) and a 7, 7.30 a.m. wake-up. Now, he is a fully rested child. See what I mean? I recognise, of course that they're all different and my Noah is on the higher end of sleep requirements.
Do you agree Becky??
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Morning Nike, well Maya only slept for her magic 1hr 20 mins, which meant nap ended at 13.10pm in bed and fast alseep by 6.30 and awake at 5.30 yay!!!
Aiming for 11.30 and 6.30 today too. I do try and do take her mind off her tiredness and I give snacks etc, we are also going to focus for a wk too. It has just been difficult last wk with having that family do, but generally we work round nap/bed time and I am quite strict with this but sometimes it gets hard to stay focused when everyone here keeps telling you she goes to bed too early etc, and when nothing appears to be working, so it is a good job you guys are here to snap me back in line
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nothing appears to be working
I went back and re-read your first post. Back then she was waking at 4.30 a.m. I think the earliest morning you've had for a week at least has been 5 a.m. (?), after which your MIL had her for the night and she went to bed later, but generally she's now hovering around the 5.15/5.30 mark right?
You just got an 11 hour night's sleep last night and 1hr 20 nap = 12 hrs 20 mins!
fast alseep by 6.30
I think previously she was having trouble settling and it was taking her a while to fall asleep at night.
it gets hard to stay focused when everyone here keeps telling you she goes to bed too early
Why don't you tell those people to come over to your house and attend to her when she wakes at 4.30 a.m.? ;)
While she's still catching up, how about trying to extend that nap a bit? How long do you leave her in her cot after she wakes? Does she wake crying or moaning and groaning? I know some kids wake crying but are otherwise happy and getting enough sleep, but the majority of times they cry bc they're still tired. I would not attend to her at all if she was just moaning and groaning...she might surprise you and go back to sleep! If crying, I'd still leave her for a while, again she just might surprise you and catch a few more Z's. Remember that while she is in her cot she is still resting, and resting is the next best thing to sleeping ;)
It would be helpful to know EXACTLY what you do for her nap and her wind-down routine, also what you do when she wakes. I can't find any info about her nap in any of your previous posts. Is she still having a bottle before nap?
Yes, she might just be one of those kids who is wired for less sleep but I'd also stand by saying that if she's cranky or irritable as you say then she does need more and we just have to find out a way to help her get more! An early bedtime and getting a good nap in are the keys here.
xo
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Hi again, Maya has only took 1 hr for her nap today although she has woke up happy. She generally just shouts me when she wakes and after 10 mins then will start to cry it is very rareI can get her back to sleep sometimes if she is really upset I can tell she needs more or she wont stand up in the cot and needs help to extend her sleep and on occasion she will take another 30 mins but mostly when she is up that is it. I wonder if the shorter nap is because of the longer night sleep?
She does not normally have a bottle before her nap, and re: wind down we just do 15 mins or so quiet time with a book or low key but she is normally that tired by that time she is falling asleep before she goes down.
Btw I know by about 3pm she will be cranky and showing tired signs which is generally the case too.,
Rachael x
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Hi Rachael
Just popping to say hello and sorry that you are still trying to find the magic formula for that 6am wake-up! We are also still in the same boat as you. Occasionally we get a few really good days (by that I mean anything after 5.30am) and then all of a sudden she will wake at 4.30ish again for about 3 days in a row and you just think what on earth has changed. We did have to change our routine as she now has to stay up even longer in the am because we have to pick up dd1 from school at 12 so not ever asleep before 12.40. So our routine is pretty much this:
Wake - anywhere between 5-6 (6 if very lucky)
Nap 12.40 - just like your lo she very often only sleeps 1.15 but sometimes will do longer, am sure she is OT cos of long morning but will have to wait til Dec when dd1 at school fulltime to rectify this poor soul
Then in bed for 6.30 most nights, asleep by 7pm hopefully.
I totally know where you are coming from on the early nights etc, am in bed by 9pm and lights out by 9.30ish most nights. My dh normally not some til 7.30ish so like you we hardly see each other apart from weekends. However, it won't last forever and then no doubt we will long for the times when they were small and so sweet.
Anyway, just wanted to say hi - I do check how you are getting on and am glad you have moved on from the 4 o'clock wakes - they are the killers.
Lisa xx
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I truly doubt that she took the short nap because of longer night. A lot of times what I see is kids start to resolve their nights they backslide on naps. NOt sure why that is! Then after a few days both nights and naps get better and then you are well on your way to fixing the OT problem! So, I think this is actually a sign of progress though I'm sure it freezes your soul with fear!
I think Nike is right on. She's giving you fantastic advice.
I'm also wondering if your DD is spirited? The shouting when she wakes up and someof the other things you mention sound very spirited to me. With kids like this, you can actually have too long of a wind down! With a touchy/grouchy kid you need a longer wind down because transitions are super hard for them. With a spirited child, they are easily revved up -- even with a quiet activity like reading. Since we know she's already exhausted at nap time we don't need to relax her so much as just get her the hell in bed! ;D So, I might consider shortening your wind down phase a bit, perhaps just 1 story then doing whatever rituals you have -- telling things night-ngiht, songs, whatever. Just a thought...
And I probably would try to extend that nap, even when she wakes up shouting for you. I'd go in and say "Honey, it's still night-ngith time!". I'd then get her out and rock ehr and see what happens. If you can even get another 30 minutes out of her it will just make the night go that much better.
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Hi , thanks again for your advice. You are right I was dreading last night after the shorter nap however she was fast asleep by 6.30 and although I heard her stir at 5.10 she went back off until 6.10!!! progress or what? Maya is very spirited we dont have too long windowns and tbh a lot of the time esp for naps we dont have such a ritual it depends on how she is tbh. Even at night the last few days we have cut out storied etc as she has just been too tired, so just abottle and bed.
Fingers crossed for today.
Rachael x
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WOO HOO ;D ;D That's getting very close to a 12 hour overnight sleep Rachael. How do you feel after that "sleep in"?!
Glad to hear you're now seeing you're making progress. What's DH's view of things now? ;)
Agree totally with the shorter wind-down. I was prompting you for routine mainly bc I thought she might be one of those kids who requires a bit of quiet time to totally settle for nap, although now I can see when she's ready she's ready.
I think you're well on the way to a super routine now. Please don't be in too much of a hurry to push that nap out and make bedtime later - let her catch up some more and then follow her lead. You don't want to rush into it and undo all the good you've done!
Well done Rachael xo
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6.10 am.................. yipppeee!!!!!
(just so you know i am still reading along but you are being cheerleaded so well by these ladies I rarely feel I can say anything!!)
And, 12 hours, I am jealous - we only ever get 11,15 (sigh) - only kidding, I am happy with my lot!
E x
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Woooooooooooohhoooooooooooooooooooo
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More great news guys, she is still sleeping after 1.5hrs!!! Just to make sure should bedtime still be at 6.30 even though she may do 2hrs??? Sorry to keep asking I just want to get this right.
Cheers,
Rachael x
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OH Rach FAB news : )
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Me again she is still asleep do I leave her or wake her? it has been 2 hrs now.
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Rachel, fantastic news I'm sooo pleased :-) what did you do? I would of woken her and then tried to keep to normal bedtime just as she is probably set to 6.30 now so any later and she may struggle, Lily always did, even if bedtime was 15mins late!
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Hi Rachael. Damned time difference >:( It's a hard call but I probably wouldn't have woken her. She's still catching up remember. I'd also still keep as close to 6.30 bedtime as possible. JMO.
What did you end up doing??
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I agree with everyone -- let her sleep, keep bedtime the same. Worst case scenario, she's not quite tired enough at the early bedtime and she just chats a bit! Best case, she falls asleep because her body clock has reset and you get another great long night! Your LO is soooooo OT she needs all this extra sleep.
YAYYYYYY!!!! I don't want to jinx you are anything, but will you please post your success story in the sticky section? I know we can't pound the gavel on this as a success quite yet, but I think you are just a week or so away from saying that you have beaten the OT monster! Congratulations my dear! You have done SO well!
Now, don't freak out if she regresses day or 2. They all do it. But as long as you keep her on the same routine you've been on, she'll go back to this lovely new sleep schedule she's got.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Now truth: did you really get to sleep in with her, or are you so used to having that early wake-up that you spent that extra hour worried and bitting your fingernails? ;D
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Hi guys, please, please dont judge me too badly but all our hard work is going to be undone big time! I had the opportunity to go away on holiday today just me and maya with some friends as the people they were going away with cant make it , so we have a free holiday including all our food and drink and it was just to much of a good opportunity to miss. Needless to say Maya is going to be all over the place and I know I am going to pay again when I come home but I could really do with the break. So thankyou so much for your support it has paid off dividends even though it is still early days I feel more in control and confident. So I hope you dnot hate me too much for wasting your time and if you are still speaking to me when I get back I may need your help again if you dont mind. I will try to keep naps in place but bedtimes are not going to be so easy while away.
Btw I let Maya sleep until 2pm which was 2.5hrs and I think she prob would have stayed asleep but we go to a toddler group on a thursday at 2ish and she loves it so I did not want her to miss it anyway had her in bed by 6.30 and she prob fell asleep at 6.45. She is still asleep now, and I have to wake her in a mo because the taxi is coming for us, can you believe it we would normally be up at this time a short while ago. Also I did sleep in the other morning I have also managed to reset my clock and not waking at that "magic" time except for last night I hardly slept cos I am too excited!
Sorry, sorry again and I hope I can still ask you wonderful ladies for help again when I come back.
love Rachael and Maya xxx
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Rachael, I am so very pleased for you that the opportunity of a freebie holiday has come your way! You really deserve it ;D ;D
And way to go Maya ;D ;D Looks like you've well and truly put the OT monster to rest ;)
Go away on your holiday and have a fantastic time. Don't stress too much about routines, you know now how to fix OT (repeat after me: early bedtime, early bedtime, early bedtime!!!) We will all be here when you get back, though I doubt you need our help any more! I am SO SO SO SO VERY HAPPY FOR YOU ALL! Please tell us what DH thinks ;)
I'm sure you've kept a sleep diary or at least written down nap times, duration, bedtimes, length of night sleep, etc. If you have the time when you get back, do you think it would be helpful to others who are going through a similar situation to post these times? It'd be great to see the improvements day by day. Oh, and of course you'll have time to post with 2.5 hour naps out of Maya each day....YAHOO ;) Btw, I bet her whole demeanour has changed now with all that sleep :) Talk to you when you get back xo
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Never apologize for taking a holiday, LOL! We allll need that rest time -- child and parents. And as Nike says, you now know the cure to the OT-blues! Once you get back you will just go back to the routine that was working and after a few days you should be back on track.
You probably can't read this right now but this is for other moms who can relate to your story: while on vacation, you should enjoy yourself as much as you want, but if you see your child getting WAY off track and unhappy from lack of sleep, then take one night in to put your child to bed early. It will truly make your holiday more fun as a tired/cranky toddler can make even the best vacation a huge drag! You definitely don't have to follow the same strict routine as at home, but every few days making sure your child is rested can make all the difference.
My son and I travelled across country when he was 20 months old -- it was a 12 hour travel day with 8 hours of plane flights. It was also a 3 hour time difference from home. I didn't worry about bedtime, but I was adamant that he got to have his nap at the appropriate time every day. Since he was waking earlier than normal in the morning, it was pretty easy to schedule our activities for after his nap -- mornings, we hung out at our villa, swam, did some light shopping, etc. This worked fabulously! He had bedtimes after 9 pm every night, and even after midnight one night! And yet was a happy kid the whole trip. When we got home, he immediatley went right back into his normal routine. I think giving him those naps gave him the stamina.
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R
we have been away ourselves for the weekend. Hope you had a great holiday, you deserve it. So ironic that you were posting at that time of the am with her still asleep!!
Do let us know how you are getting on when you get back, I am jealous!!
E x
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Hope you're having a wonderful holiday hun! I definitely don't blame you for going, we all need a break and it's not something you're offered everyday. Will be here for support again when you're back :-*
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enjoy the holiday rachael..i have been silently folowing you and you have muae such wonderful progress..you guys deserve the break :)
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Well we are back and had a lovely time, although so hard being on my own without hubby around to help. We managed quite well with sleep although by thursday the OT monster came knocking and she was not good to be around!! tbh she did well, she was not going to bed until 10-10.30 most nights and although she still woke at 5am she would fall back to sleep until about 7-7.30 most mornings, she was normally beat by 10.30-11 and would take 30 mins and then a longer nap in the pm sometimes! but at least that got her through til a later bedtime, one evening she did fall asleep in her pram while we had dinner so all in all not too bad. First day back she only slept 30mins all day while travelling so I put her to bed as soon as we got back at 6am and she slept til 5.25 only took 1 hr nap the next day, early to bed again at 6.15 and up at 4.50!!! I know it is going to take a few days to get back on track but at least it is no worse. Cant say the same for me I cam back with food poisoning and spent all day in bed yesterday, so much for holidays.
Hope you are all well, I will keep you posted.
Rachaelx
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Sorry to hear about the food poisoning but I'm glad you had a nice break and LO did well. Sending vibes that she gets back on track quickly and you too ;)
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Just updating, did not fall asleep until 6.50 and awake at 4.30!!! I did get her back off at 5.15ish until 6.20 but only with me in the room, but I guess this is another cross I will have to bear from going away as she got used to me in her room and most morning I did take her into bed with me as she was waking srtill at 5ish which meant only 8 hrs of sleep and the walls were so thin I ciould not do any sleep training and thought I would do anything to get some more sleep into her which I managed 1-2 hrs extra. So I know this is going to be a tough time again so I hope I can have a moan now and again.
Rachael xxxx
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welcome back. glad you had a good time. So yes its back to the ol' routine. Hopefully it wont take long. They have better memories now so they protest like crazy about having to settle back down but then usually accept it quite quickly
Deep breath and off you go
E x
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Totally agree with Emma -- be consistent about going back to your routine, and she'll get it! It will take a few days for her to realize that holiday time is over, but it will happen! You might also get some weird SA stuff from being away from daddy. It may not come out as being clingy to daddy, but as clingy to YOU! So, that may also make sleep training complicated. But,hey, that's life! And hopefully by next holiday she'll be a bit older and her sleep more cemented, and coming back will be even better! ;D
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Welcome back Rachael! Hope you get back on track again quickly :-*
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Welcome back. You deserved the break! I hope things get back on track soon.
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Hi again, we had an hr nap yesterday with bed at 6.30 , she woke at 5am but did go back to sleep after approx 45 mins for another hr so wake up was actually 7.10!!! I was in the room though which I know I am giong to have to break sooner rather than later but I really want to get as much sleep into as possible at the mo. still aimed for the same nap time although it was nearer 11.50 when she fell asleep but barely slept an hr!!! woke up happy though so really unsure what to make of that.
Rachaelx
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Hi Rachel
So glad you had a lovely holiday, pity about food poisoning! I wouldn't make too much out of her waking happy from a 1hr nap, just be glad she did. Keep in mind to look at the big picture like a week's progress, not daily progress or failings, hopefully she will be back on track real soon.
Love Nik
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Absolutely agree wtih PP! From day to day they may handle a 1 hour nap, but cumulatively it really starts to stagger them. I know that you are always looking for a reason not to have early bedtime! ;) Stick with your routine, and hopefully in a week or so she'll be back to where she was before the holiday!
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Welcome back Rachael ;D Glad to hear you both had a great holiday, food poisoning excepted. Hope you're all recovered now.
I'd also agree that it may take a little time to recover from the holiday but if you're persistent and consistent then she should slip back into the great routine you were in the process of estabishing before you went away. I think, from memory, once you'd estabished the early bedtime and were consistent with it, it really only took her a week to get back on track. I stand corrected on that, though, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't too long.
You're doing great!! And I also know you're not keen on the early bedtimes, but once you've really laid the OT monster to rest, and she's caught up, you can then start tagging 15 minutes or so onto the end of her day for a later bedtime. I'd stress, however, not to move too quickly in this regard. You don't want to undo all of the good work you've done! Alternatively, if you're getting those longer naps consistently then you could aim for a bedtime slightly later too. She should let you know anyway - instead of just crashing when going down at 6.30, you may find she'll start having a little chat or fluff around a bit before dropping off. You know your DD best. I think the holiday would have set you back a bit, so don't start worrying about later bedtimes just yet. Baby steps ;D
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Hi Nike, nice to hear from you, I have missed you. I have been sticking to early bedtimes and this morning we got a 5.30 wake so 11 hrs which is great. I am just a little concerned over our looming time change, not sure how to handle this best, I dont want to end up with a 3.30 start!!!
Rachael x
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Rachel, you've still got 2.5weeks for her to get over any OT, should be long enough especially as you've been doing early bedtimes for last few days already, thats a total of 3 weeks between holiday and time change. As long as she is caught up on sleep which if you are super consistant she should be then she should handle the time change no problem. Just put her down slightly early (albeit that will be slightly late for her) for a few days and she will adjust no probs. I honestly never really do anything for time change and Lily always sorts it out for herself in 3/4days.
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ditto! if she's not OT, the time change shouldn't affect her. Owen always adjusts after 1 day. I just stretch him a bit at nap and bedtime to push his bedtime to the 'normal' time, or close to it, and then by day 2 he's waking at the new normal time.
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Well we had a 4.20 wake this morning!! although I did manage to leave her for a while and she called me again at 5.10 so I think she must have gone back off for a little while, at 5.10 I stayed with her and she did fall back to sleep until 6am!
Rachale x
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Put Maya down at regular nap time, slept 30 mins, went in and resettled and woke 30 mins later again!!!! what is going on?
Rachael x
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Rachael
I think its really good that she will nowadays go back to sleep in the mornings. Grace will never go back off if she wakes 5ish - absolutely no chance, I know it can take her a while but at least she recognises she does need more sleep.
Glad you had a good holiday - sure she will be back on track soon xx
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I can't believe this site is finally back up. I've felt like I've lost a limb these last couple of weeks - didn't realise my addiction to this forum was that bad ;D
Rachael, I've been wondering about you mate. How are you getting on with Maya's post holiday routine? Have been thinking about you lots....
xo
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Thank goodness Bw is back up and running, I have been so lost, luckily I found Vicku on Facebook and she has been giving me some support. We have been having it pretty rough tbh however she has had a cold and teething going on but wake ups were getting silly 3am one morning and no going back off, nw's , SA, refusal to go to bed bascially anything and everything has happened when I have needed you guys more than ever. Anyway I have been sticking to early bedtimes still and was ready to give up but I have bought forward nap time to 11am and finally got a 2.5 hrs nap which I think she desperatly needed, bedtime I also bought forward and the past 3 days she slept
6-5.30
6.20-5.50
6.30-6.20!!!!
I know she is still not 100% well so this could be what is making her sleep better and yesterday she only napped 1.15 but still slept nearly 12 hrs at night, so we shall have to wait it out and see, but great to speak to you guys again I have missed you all.
Love and hugs,
Rachael x
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Hi Rach, it's good to be back here isn't it? Facebook is ok but nothing beats BW ;D
I'm glad I could be there for you at least a little! I meant to ask, how did you find me on FAcebook?
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Hi Vicku, I was so desperate, missing BW that I looked to see if there was a "baby whisperer group" on Facebook,(tbh just to see what the problem was with the website) which there was and looked through to see if I recongnized any one on the members list, and i recognised Lois's photo, so not brilliant detective work just lucky i am good with faces and she is just so cute how could you forget that face? Anyway I really appreciated you help on there you always help me loads.
Btw Maya only took a short nap again yesterday, her cough woke her up and she was in bed asleep by 6.30 but woke at 5.15 which is not bad in length terms just still not a great time to wake up for me!
Speak later,
Rachaelx
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Yesterday Maya took an hr nap again but her cough woke her, she was in bed and asleep by 6.30 and although she woke at 4.45 and I did go in and stay with her she slept on and off until 7.20!!! so I know she is def not 100%
Rachael x
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Hi Rach!
That was good enough detective work I think ! ;D I changed my profile pic back to Lois' photo when site was down hoping it would make it easier for people to find me. Glad it worked!
The 7:20 wake up is a good starting point to see if she can manage a later nap, unless she is too unwell... How did yesterday go?
coughs are always bad for sleep as it wakes them up. Hope last night was good! xxxxx
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Well she was still ready for her 11.30 nap and she slept 2 hrs, ready for bed again at 6,30 and not a terrible night although she was really coughing. She woke about 11ish very briefly and then was coughing around 2ish but did not call out to us, then she woke at 3am where she would not let me out the room but after 15 mins i walked out and she settled and I did not hear again from her until 6.30!!
Rachael x
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Marking my spot x will be back later to read and help! :-*
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That's not bad! :) Yay for the 2hr nap!!!
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Yes, it was great but short lived im afraid, less than 1hr today!!
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Hi Rachael. So sorry I've been MIA. Sick kids and just the usual dramas. All sorted now ;)
Sorry to hear Maya's not well but sounds like she's getting back on track despite it all. Have you tried a vaporiser in her room for the coughing? If you don't like the water kind, in Aust we have a product called Sudoclear, also made by Vicks I think, which plugs into the wall and you put a pellet in, a "dry" vaporiser if you like. It really clears the nose and I think helps with coughing too. A tip from DH's grandmother, which I'm sure you've heard before, is to smear Vicks on the soles of their feet before bed, with or without socks. Also supposed to help with coughing. I do this religiously when Noah has a cold.
Well she was still ready for her 11.30 nap and she slept 2 hrs, ready for bed again at 6,30
This is true progress!! She is showing clear tired signs (albeit it's prob bc of being unwell) and you're picking up on them. Well done ;D
Do the 4.30 a.m. wakeups seem like a distant memory now?? ;)
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Morning, I knew I should not have spoken too soon! 40 mins nap yesterday would not settle until 7.30pm so nearly 7 hrs after nap, short nw before 12 then over 1 hr coughing at 1ish awake at 4.50 but as our clocks went back 3.50!!!! and no signs of going back to sleep now what do I do?
Rachael x
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OMG! things are even worse, tried to get her down for a nap super early in the hope I could get 2 naps in to catch up went down for 5 mins woke coughing then owuld not go back down tried again on several occasions no joy and now it is 13.30 (14.30 ) in her mind and ridiculoussly ot but every time she lies down coughs and gets upset and now she has just been sick!!!arrgghh all my hard work undone. I think a trip to the doc is in order 2morrow!
Rachael x
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Maya had an absolute meltdown at 1400 I got her to sleep after a lot of hard work she was fighting, kicking, hitting really not nice and now it is 15.30 and she is still asleep, what do I do? do I wake her or leave her to sleep? I am worried if I leave her to sleep bedtime will become later and she will still wake at 5 oclock which means less night sleep = OT!!! can anyone help?
Rachael x
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Rachael-
I'd let her sleep as long as she wants. If she's sick and heading toward OT land, I'd try bedtime around the same time as usual, regardless of when she wakes from her nap.
Sending you (((hugs)))-
Leslie
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Oh poor you and Maya!! She really doesn't seem well. Have you tried raising the matress for her to see if that helps the coughing?
I know it's too late now, but I'd have let her sleep too. She'll need as much as she can get. Hugs!!!!
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Oh Hugs Rachel
Yes I agree I'd of let her sleep to within 2.5hrs of a reasonable bedtime.
I take it you've steamed up her room, bowls of water on radiator etc, loads of vicks all over chest back and feet. Does she have milk at bedtime? if its a mucousy cough I would eliminate that for a while too as that increases phlegm production and raise head of cot/bed on thick books so she isn't so flat. Another thing to consider is that once the phlegm settles at night you generally stop coughing until you move at least. Would she tollerate laying down prior to bedtime so that she gets through the coughing part before she needs to sleep.
Hope she feels better soon :-*
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Last night went quite well, she was asleep by 6.15 (7.15 in her eyes) and she slept until 4.17 9which would be 5.17 her "magic time) although she did fall back to sleep with a little intervention for approx another 1hr. I really could have done without the time change this weekend though!
Rachael x
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Great that she slept for another hr in the end. Perhaps now that her EW's will be even earlier with the time change it'll be easier to get her back to sleep without putting the day out, and more motivating to do as 4:17 just isn't ok as a waking time. What do you do to get her back to sleep? WI/WO? Hopefully after a while she'll start puting herself back to sleep if she wakes at that time, if she gets used to going back to sleep and learns to do it independantly. That happened with DD after a while of doing WI/WO consistently. We'd hear her wake but then settle herself. Now I think all she does is roll over and go back to sleep til 6 or 7, so the hard work of WI/WO has been well worth it for us.
Fingers crossed for a good nap for her and that the cold and cough is better!!
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Hi all! Maya resisted her nap again today although not as bad as yesterday but I still managed to get her down and it has passed an hr now so we shall see what happens here. We went to the doc's this morning as this cough she has had for 3-4 weeks now on and off so he has given her some antibiotics to help clear. Tbh while she has been poorly i have been staying with her so I hope it does not take too much to get her back on track once she is feeling better, as the week before this cough took hold again she was settling herself and sleeping 11.5-12 hrs, just hope that was not because of the cold brewing! Obviously now our clocks have just gone back what do I do now just stick to out new time? as I dont want 4.17 as my new wake time. Then I guess we will have to start to push it out again to get a more reasonable wake time, is that right? no doubts we will just have it sorted then we go on holiday in about 8 wks and it will be messed up again! although never seems so bad when your away plus hubby and mil will be there to help, just be tough when we get back as we also have a time difference to contend with which is new to us only done 1 hr previously. Any tips anyone to help us prepare?
Rachaelx
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don't really have any advice on the time difference. now that clocks have changed DD's routine is pretty much an hr earlier, so we've not messed with her body clock. how big time difference will there be when you go on hol?
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5 or 6 hrs we are off to New York and then a cruise round the Caribbean for xmas and new year
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I'm sure there'll be loads of mums with experience of that on here. Maybe do a separate thread to get some advice? I know people sometimes post in Getting back on track about traveling etc.
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Just a quick update, Maya was asleep by 6pm and had a nw about 12 for 30 mins then woke at 5.45!
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Hi there
just to say I am back ...... we went on hols when BW was down and just back and catching up. So frustrating about the illness but stick with it, keeping things crossed for you
E x
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Rachel ~
It seems that you have received lots of great advice here. I was reading through your posts tonight - as I went through the same thing with my 14 month old. Have you read the book 'Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child' by Mark Weisbluth? I really recommend that you purchase a copy. I have read many books on baby/toddler sleep, and most sleep experts agree that early waking is usually caused by overtiredness and a too late bedtime. The best way to battle early wakings is to have an ultra-early bedtime.
My husband and I were very skeptical of this at first, but it does seem to work. Dr. Weisbluth suggests putting babies to bed as early as 5:00 p.m. It sounds radical, but it can't hurt to try. I would stick with an 11:30 nap-time and then bedtime between 5 and 5:30. Don't make any judgements until you try it for at least a week. If she absolutely refuses to go to bed that early, try 6:00 at the latest and then slowly move the bedtime back to 5. She won't need to go to bed this early forever - just until she catches up on sleep and begins to wake later in the morning on a consistent basis. The more sleep a baby gets, the better and longer the baby will sleep. You will probably see her naptimes lengthen as well.
I know what it feels like to be at the end of your rope! I hope things improve soon!
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Hey Rachael. Can't agree enough about the book "HSH, HC" - it is also my bible and a book that I've spoken about quite a few times in your thread, I think without actually posting the title! I do think he is a little harsh in some respects, I have to say, but I'm all for taking it all in and just finding a healthy balance. He's very pro what he calls the "extinction method", ie to basically CIO. Anyhow, it's a book I constantly refer to, even with second child. There is a section on daylight savings (or whatever you call it over there). I'll see if I can quote some of it for you. Sorry I don't have any personal experience with this.
"When you move the clock time an hour earlier or later, continue to sleep your child according to the new time. If her bedtime has been about 6.30 p.m. and you moved the clock forward an hour so her old 6.30 is now 7.30 p.m., still put her down to sleep at the new clock time of 6.30 p.m. The reason you can ignore the time change is because a lot of social cues in the family such as active or quiet times, meals, bathing, outdoor play time is adjusted with the time change, and these social cues help regulate your child's sleep schedule."
I hope you understood all that!
We are having issues with DS2 atm as well, previous excellent sleeper. He has been "off" since last week, after getting his chicken pox vaccination. Only 2 weeks earlier he had tonsillitis, very nasty. We've also been having some SA issues, but I think we're coming out of that now. All of that culminated in taking up to an hour to go down for sleep at bedtime ::) Never before experienced this with him. I thought since he was stuffing around, we may as well drop that last nightime bottle as well....so in some respects it's been a good thing ;D Now he's all over the place, sleeping up to 13.5/14 hours overnight ( ???) and wanting to go for his nap close to his normal time of midday, even after only 3.5, 4 hours up. WT??? Anyhow, seems happy otherwise. Think he's on the verge of a bit of a language explosion/developmental thing - and/or molars. Sorry to waffle, just letting you know you're not alone and why I rarely get time to get on the board of late!
IMO, I don't think you need to go right back to 5, 5.30 p.m. bedtime - stick with the 6.30 time for the moment and just ride out this illness. Did you try the vaporiser? Have you tried a dose of Panadol before bed? Wishing Maya a speedy recovery...xo
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Hi Nike, nice to hear from you, hope things sort theirselves out your end soon. I have the book you refer to so I will have a look at the pages on time difference. I was going to post today as I feel all mixed at the mo, what with the illness and the clocks going back i am confused with what I should be doing. We have been getting mixed starts ranging from 4.20-6am sometimes she will fall back to sleep and sometimes not. We tend to get a good nap and good night and then an early start/ bad nap and that seems to be the general pattern. Yesterday she only took 1hr 10 mins nap and would nt fall asleep for bed until 7pm which meant 6.5 A time and then awoke at 4.45 and no way was she going back off! With her not being well, tbh her nap has been nearer 11am rather than 11.30 and most days we do get a longer nap however if it does fall short then it can be a long time til bed. Bed has been between 6-6.30 again because of illness and clock change as obs her body clock thinks it is an hr later anyway. Br great if you could just let me know what you think and if I need to change anything. Good to have you back.
~Rachael x
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We had a decent nap yesterday short A time before bed and still got NW's and woke at 4.50 again!!! I feel like we are just going round in circles, what else can i do?
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hugs babe! I can't think of any advice but to be consistent. consistent with how you deal with the wakings and consistent with her routine as much as you can. also, she's a bit older now... when my DD wakes too early or has NW we can usually tell her it's not time to get up yet and she'll know to try and sleep. have you tried that with M? sounds silly but it's really worked here lately. we had 3 NW's last night.
4:50 used to be 5:50 though (probably still is in her mind) so things might improve slowly again. let's hope so! :-*
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Rachel, Vicku is right, consistency, consistency, consistency. Just stick with the 6/6.30pm bedtimes, preferably closer to 6pm at present and she will come through this again. Its just sods law really. She does take a long time to get back on track which is mainly why you had so many problems getting her routine sorted before your holiday, but since you have had a nasty cold, the clocks changing... so its no suprise its taking a while for her to get back on track. Are you still staying in with her in am for ew's. AP definitly has its +'s sometimes, that I know very well having done APOP loads of times, but at some point you will have to bite the bullet and return to wi/wo for ews otherwise she will continue to wake just to see you and have you there for last hour or so of night sleep.
I totally agree with vicku again about the fact that at this age you can start to just go and say to them 'its still night time, you need to go back to sleep' and they do understand.
Stick with it Rachel, she's acheived a good routine before several times before, albeit for only short spells, but we know it can be done. You will get her back on track again.
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We went with a 6.15 bedtime last night and we had acouple of nw;s not for long though and then awake at 5.15 which is great she did 11 hrs but i cant see me ever getting past this ridiculous time! my only worry is now with the early time it is a long time again til her nap time which may result inOt again. I also think htis cold is teething symptoms as it seems to be going on way to long for a cold and her cheeks were red raw yesterday plus she has been so horribly cranky and even more sensitve than ususal must be her 2nd molars which i hear are real fun! great lol!
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But remember that 5:15 used to be 6:15, so she is making progress slowly. 11 hrs is great too! If she starts to sleep til about that time in the morning consistently, you should be able to make things a bit later over time. 5:15 is only 45 mins off 6am. I know, we are also dealing with molars that are taking ages!
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I know it doesn't feel like it will ever get later but it will get later, it getting better before, it just takes her a looonnnnggg! time to make changes to her routine. A glimmer of hope, I know all LO's are different but Lilys 2yr molars were not as bad as canines, so fingers crossed she may do OK.
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Yep molars are awful! My DD had teh worst time with all her teeth but the molars are not that bad for some reason BUT they TAKE SO LONG TO COME IN!
DD has her bottom 2nd year molars in and they started in Feb of this year! Now the top 2nd year molars are halfway through, and they seemed to stop for a while but now we're back on excessive drooling, red cheeks, low grade fevers, diaper rashes and constant crankiness. Oh did I mention OT Monster?
Good luck hun, I know it can be hard, it sounds like you are sticking with it. Consistency is key, you mention you are afraid of being stuck with 5:15 wake up. Don't worry about it, right now you need to help her make up her sleep deficit, once the sleep is banked back up you can slowly begin moving the wake up times later but not until she's not OT anymore.
You made a casual comment about how waking up at 5:15 am will be a LONG time till nap and OT will set in, are you going by the clock, tired signs or rather Awake time lenght to ward off OT? I definately don't want to go against anything all the wonderful ladies have already said (I definately didn't read the FULL 244 thread post :o) but when my DD is in OT mode and has an EW I give an earlier nap based on A time and tired signs, otherwise forget the nap she's too tired to take it. Just a thought!
Good luck you can do it!
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Morning all! Well again we were up at 4.45 and no signs of going back to sleep, I know I keep moaning but I have been so consistent FOREVER and things are no better really as I know we get the occasional 11 hr but we did before on occasion but still mostly 10-10.5 it always seems 1 step forward and 1 back . I think the key is def resetting her body clock but how am i ever going to move forward without her getting OT? Sorry to moan, I felt much more in control but o feel like it is building on top of me again, I feel so resentful towards Maya at times and i never wanted to feel like this about my dd.
Rachael x
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Hi everyone, I really need to have a rant! please tell me I am not in the wrong? My mil had a christian meeting at her house this evening with some of hubbys family coming along, I told hubby i would not be staying but would let maya see everyone 1st before we left. Everyone had arrived and settled in and said their hellos etc so I planned on leaving around 5.30 before it all got started, so we could get home and settled for mayas bedtime, i got a hard time from mil and hubby was in a foul mood with me he also said he was going to pick her up later and bring her back, why dont they want her to sleep? we then had words as he said his opinion counts for nothing so we left on a sour night. I am so fed up, i try so hard not to mess up her routine but they dont seem to care. Was i in the wrong or did i do the right thing?
Fed up, Rachaelx
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Hey hun, sorry for not getting to this sooner :( :-*
I agree with you completely sweetie, YOU are the one who has to pick up the pieces if she becomes OT or indeed over stimlated so i think you should be respected for your descision! Hugs to you! :-*
With the OT hun, it is a case of just keeping to it as much as you can...unfortunately with LO's just when you think you ve got it sussed they do another turn about and have you confused about what to do again. Stick with it, it may take some weeks but it WILL work hun :-*
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Still up at 4.45 this morning and lots of nw's although she settled herself off pretty quickly. SOrry to hear about Lois little accident Vicku, I hope she is ok and you got a decent nt in a bgb.
Rachael
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Hi Rachael,
not checked in for a while as been so busy with negotiations for our new (hopefully) house and of course also the BGB
Sorry to hear about the incident with MIL. I totally agree with vicki that you were in the right as you're the one who deals with Maya mainly and you know her best.
I hope you get some later wake ups soon. Stick wiht it for a week or two very consistently, and if that doesn't help maybe try making the day later gradually. But stick with this first to be totally sure it won't work before changing approach.
Loi is fine and asleep in her new bed for the second night.
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Girl, I'm so sorry you're still battling this. As for DH and MIL, I think the problem is that many people don't understand that early to bed means later wakings. Many people (including my own DH until I beat him with a rolling pin on the head) think that a later bedtime will lead to later wakings. I have a feeling that they both think they are doing the right thing, trying to keep her up longer. And, sometimes grandma's worry more about showing off a LO than they do about sticking to routines. It's normal and natural, but not helpful to the mama!
I know for a fact that we got those EWs really licked once you stuck to the routine consistently. I think you should make a commitment for the next week to have no outside activities at night, and preferably also at nap time. Just 7 days. After those 7 days, I think you'll see some improvement. If so, it will be easier to commit for another week! I know it's hard, but better now than when the holidays get underway! :o It's hard for most families to keep to routines during the holidays, so let's get some good sleep in your little sweetheart now so that she can power thru those holidays without too much backlash. 7 days of early bedtimes (6/6:30) and I think you'll have a different girl.
Good luck!
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Hi Rachael. Apologies also for being MIA. I finally got a new PC, have all our sickness probs sorted and everything is looking back on track.
Sorry to hear you've been getting some grief re. Maya's routine. I am a real stickler for routine and we generally always work around DS2's nap and sleep times. BUT I am known to be flexible on the odd occasion, like holidays and special occasions - but only when the boys are otherwise well. Life would be so much easier if I only had DS1, who is now 3.5 and not napping during the day. He does have quiet time at home but would easily last the distance if we were to go out and also stay out late at night. He's also reached that miracle point of actually sleeping in if he's had a late night, with no NW's to have to contend with. But for the moment, we're plodding along around DS2's routine, knowing there is light at the tunnel and in a year or so we will have some semblance of a "normal" life back....LOL ;D I'm not prepared to d!ck around with no naps and late nights bc I am the one who has to deal with the repercussions! And that's my stock-standard answer for anyone who questions it.
There may be some issues still floating around post holiday, like Maya having got used to you sleeping in with her in the same room and her routine being out of whack in general. It doesn't take them very long to manipulate a situation to suit themselves, does it?! I believe you have the NW's under control now, so it's just the EW. I have no experience, sorry, with daylight savings. No doubt you'll just crack a good routine and you'll have the time change again....aaarghh!
No useful advice other than to keep on top of the OT by earlyish nap and early bedtime. If she's still settling well at 6.30 then she's obviously tired then. You could try pushing the daytime nap closer to 12 and hope for a longer nap and that hopefully will help with the EW the next morning. Whatever you try, be consistent for at least 5 days, maybe even closer to a week.
GL :)
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Hi girls, nice to have you back again Nike. I have been sticking to my guns ,and even bought nap time earlier to about 10.50-11 and we have had longer naps, bedtime is still averaging around 6.15 but the last 2 days i have pushed it to 6,30 as we have been getting good nights of 11hrs . She allso is still not 100% cold/teething . We have still had nw's and ew but she is settling better and quicker i think as she is not OT so i am ok with this for now as i can handle 5.45-6am starts, and hopefully we can push out a little step at a time having said that we are going away for christmas so no doubt everything will be all over the place again plus we have a big time diff to contend with however it never seems so bad when your away as you have your hubbys support just chaos when you get home!
Thanks for checking in.
Rachaelx
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Hey Rachael. Just to clarify, is that 5.45 - 6 a.m. starts pre daylight savings time or daylight savings time? Just interested to see if she's actually waking at 6.45 - 7 a.m., which would be fantastic ;D ;D
I know what you mean about holidays throwing routines out. We're in the process of booking a family holiday for the new year and already I'm getting a bit anxious about it all. The restaurants on the particular island we're looking at don't open til 6, 6.30 p.m. which is really late for us 5 p.m. diners! I'm also going to attempt to sleep the boys in the same room together for the very first time. Most of the first day will be spent travelling and we don't get to the island late in the afternoon, so I'm worried about the obvious nap issue for Noah (DS2). But have to stop, breathe and remind myself it's only for a short time and things WILL get back to normal ;D
Will check in again soon xo
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Hi Nike, yes if the clocks had not gone back it would be 6.45-7am.
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Sounds like improvement!! Keep it up hun! :-*
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Just a quickie, Maya has been sleeping much better and we have pushed nap time to 11.30 and bed at 6.30, however this morning she woke at 4.50 pretty happy and no signs on going back off, so do i stick with new times or bring it back again?
Cheers,
Rachael x
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Up at 4.50 again this morning, arrgggh!!! What should i do?
Rachael x
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Is she happy and ready to go at that time or is she whingey, obviously tired and wanting to go back to sleep? If the former, the only thing I can come up with is that if she has finally caught up on sleep, and is over the OT, then maybe try pushing the nap out to 12 p.m. You could maybe even try 11.45 (slow and steady!) and then 6.45 bedtime. I wouldn't take a giant leap to 7.30 bedtime or anything, but try 15 minute increments and see how she goes.
How is she settling for nap and bedtime? Is she fluffing around or does she crash? We recently extended DS2's bedtime to 7 p.m. after he was faffing around bigtime and refused his normal bedtime of 6.30/40. Worked like a charm. He just needed that extra 20 minutes to get a bit more tired. But with Maya's history, I would tread very carefully and slowly. Give any change at least 4 or 5 days to take effect.
Looking forward to seeing what other suggestions you get xo
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Hi Rachael,
I would say the same as Nike, maybe sh's caught up on sleep and it's time to push things further, but SLOWLY so don't get to OT again. Agree with 4-5 days for a new time to get established before re-evaluating.
How long have her naps been?
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just found this thread and want to send encouragement your way!!
we, too, have been dealing with early wakings and i would be so happy to get 6am wakings. maybe we'll try to push bedtime back earlier again, too, and see what happens. it seems to have helped (even a little!) with maya.
i'll be following along!
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Naps are around 1.5 hrs now so pretty good. We had another 4.50 start this morning, which worries me about pushing nap later incase it backfires as it seems a long time til 11.45 from 4.50. I find if bed is at 6.15 we get 5.30 wake but any later it is 4.50. I know it will take a while to reset but even 5.30 if pref to 4.50. Just need some reassurance i think.
Rachael x
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Well , Maya has dropped a 2hr nap in today, typical as i have spent the whole 2 hrs doing nothing! Btw i put her down at 11.20. Do you think 6.45 would still be ok tonight? that is what i have been doing past 2 nts.
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Still asleep, 2.5hrs!
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Maya actually slept for 3hrs and I woke her up as i was worried about bedtime, took her up at 6.30 hoping for 6.45 and she fell asleep straight away!!! hope i did the right thing?
Rachael x
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Its always a difficult one. I would aim for usual bedtime unless it was incredibly obvious that she was not at all tired, then only up to 1/2 hr later
She may be in a catch up phase or (really hate to say this but) another illness (but hey this one may not be bad if it encourages sleep!). We are just getting over quite major tummy bug, 3 days of normal and now she has a racking cough......
E x
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I have been following your thread for ages and I can see progress. Yay! Hope her great sleep continues and that you don't have a 3am wake up after a 3 hour nap. Fingers crossed that the trend continues.
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Morning guys, well she slept soundly until 5.10 so an extra 20 mins on what we have been having, plus she managed to stay in her cot for another 15 mins reading and that really is a first!
Rachael x
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took another long nap again today, although she did not fall asleep until 12pm, and i woke her at 2.30pm! hope she is not coming down with something again although if it makes her sleep! lol.
Rachael x
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Nope Rachael, that's EXACTLY what you're aiming for - nap at midday (2, 2.5 hours is fantastic) then bed by 7 p.m. Wake at 7 a.m. Well, that's in the ideal world but sounds like she's getting there.
Remember to watch for her tired cues. Obviously the later she sleeps in the morning, that little bit later you can put her down - I'm talking NO LATER than midday though. But if she's yawning or goes quiet as early as 10 a.m., say, I'd be giving her a high-energy snack and then aiming for an early lunch and nap.
Based on past history, I wouldn't be pushing bedtime past 7 p.m., she should be actually ASLEEP by then ;) Sounds like she functions much better on that earlier bedtime.
Sounds all positive, though ;D
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Morning all. Maya fell asleep at 7pm and woke at 5am, went in told her it was still bed and she slept til 6.10am.
Rachael x
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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keeping fingers crossed. Even if she is a little unwell then, as I said, if its the type of illness that makes her tired then I know a few people where this has helped "sleep train" their lo's by re inforcing message
heres hoping
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woooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooo
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Back to 1hr 20 mins today for nap!! but she did have a 11 hr last night so maybe that was all she needed. I think i will bring bedtime forward back to 6.45 instead of 7pm tonight and stick with that a few days before going for 7.
Rachel
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So nice to read all these positive updates Rachael!! I'm so pleased! Sorry I've not been here for a few days...
Sounds very sensible to stick with 6:45 for a few days!
I remember that when Lois did a 3 hr nap (unheard of before) that was the turning point to get her sleep back on track after our very rocky 2-1 transition. Hope this is a sign for you too ;) Keep up the good work!!
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Thanks Vicku, nice to hear from you, how is Lois doing in her bgb?
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Hi Rachel
Been a bit awol of late, but really pleased things seem to be getting sorted out for you and Maya's sleep. You've had a really rough ride but it sounds like your coming out the other end now :-)
Nik x
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Hi stranger, hope you and lily are well?
hugs, Rachael x
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Hi everyone
Been reading this thread from very beginning today. M 14 month old son has been waking at 5.20-5.30 since early September. He stand up in his cot and cries. He is spirited in his nature. He wakes up pretty grumpy from his morning nap (I have to wake him otherwise he will sleep for up to 2 hours in the morning, then doesn't want a post-lunch nap).He still has 2 naps - 30 mins in the morning at 9am, lunch at 11.45 and nap from 12.30 - 2.30. Dinner at 4.45. He is tired at 5.30 ish but I have been keeping him going till 7pm. I put him down at 6.30 tonight after reading all your posts. Should I be going for an even earlier bedtime do you think? Also how do I know when he is ready to drop that morning nap? When he wakes at 5.20am should I lay him back down in his cot and do WI/WO?? Would really appreciate any tips? I am so tired!!
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P.S. Found a UK site selling Calms Forte 4 Kids. Unfortunately they say they are for 2 years and over so my son is too young for them!!!
http://astronutrition.com/childrens-health-76/calms-forte-4kids-homeopathic-formula-681/
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Thanks Vicku, nice to hear from you, how is Lois doing in her bgb?
She's doing fab thanks!! So much easier transition than I was expecting, she's been a real star! She's so proud of her new bed too ;D
emmayorkshire, as long as he's taking the 2nd nap you can keep it, when he starts to refuse either nap think about doing one. Yes, I'd try an earlier bedtime to see how he goes on that.
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Well following our short nap yesterday, Maya did not fall asleep until 7pm despite an earlier attempt and awake at 5,10 with no sign of going back off! she was still tired but would not settle so now what should i do, bring nap forward or still to 11.45?
Rachael x
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Thanks for that,
Just realised I'm hijacking Rachael's post - sorry Rachael!
I'll keep reading to see how you're getting on and start my own thread for some needed help!
Hope things keep improving with Maya. we were up at 4.45 today!
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Updating,
Scenario A :Yesterday Maya woke at 5.10 and would not go back to sleep, the day before she had 1hr 15 mins and 10hr night followed.
Scenario B: Yesterday I put her down at 11.30 which was 6.5 A time and she slept 2hrs, bed at 6.45 and slept 11 hrs.
So now I need help with what to do, if I stick with 11.30 this may be not enough A time given the longer night and later wake time which could result in a shorter nap which means bedtime A time is too long resulting in a short night again like scenario A
Or if I do a later nap she is not getting consistency,
So any ideas how to play this?
Rachael x
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Well as predicted we got an hr and 10 mins today from 11.40 to 12.50.
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Bought bedtime forward to 6.30 and up at 5.10!!!! def a pattern emrging here. Any ideas?
Rachael
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Rachel
Have you actually kept a written log of wake ups nap time/length and bedtimes. As you say your starting to see a pattern, might be a good idea to do a log for a week or so so you can really see the pattern clearly.
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Hi nik, I have only really kept a mental note and tbh saw no pattern previously when we were getting every day short naps, but the last 3-4 days it has been the pattern above. She had a longer night sleep last nite so it will be interesting to see how long she naps today.#
hugs
Rachael x
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Ok forget my stupid theory! I thought it was too good to be true. Maya had just 1hr 10 mins and woke perfectly happy! I will never get this right, I think i just have to resign myself to ealry mornings forever.
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You really don't have to resign yourself to them forever, even if her routine hasn't quite stabalised yet as long as she is no longer OT you could gently push her day on, but I would do it very GENTLY like 5-10mins every 4 days or so.
That said she does seem to be getting slightly more regular in routine, I'm pretty sure as she continues to grow into 1 nap things should pretty much sort themselves out, regarding wake up and nap length :-)
Something else to bear in mind is that the whole 2-1transition thing, when it doesn't go smoothly, IMO it isn't anything to do with us getting it right, our job is damage control, their job is to grow into 1 nap and eventually we meet at the end of it all and come out the other side.
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Went for an early nt last night due to having 2 day of waking at 5 and only taking 1hr 10 mins so she was in bed for 6.15 and woke at 4.45!!!!
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Oh dear, sorry about the early morning Rach! I agree with Nik that 5-10 mins later every 4 days or so is sensible. Did he not go back to sleep after 4:45?
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No afraid not, we just seem to just do the same pattern over and over, I just cant ssee how I will ever push forward when we are back to short naps and ew again.
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I don't know hun, it's so tough. I would DEFINITELY recommend you to keep a sleep log though to keep track and be able to look back for patterns and progress. I was sure you had one going actually. It helped me a lot when L was haing the same problems. I could see the patterns better and it helped me figure out what to do to improve things for us.
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Maya took an 1.5 nap yesterday but that was at 10,30 she fell asleep on my nap she was so tired. i put her to bed at 6,15 and she woke at 4,45!!! no going back to sleep either.
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How about tryong for an early short nap and then a longer one later int he day? Just to help reset her day to a later bedtime again so you can, hopefully, get a laer wake up too. That used to work really well for us. Even if you have to do one of the naps in the car or whatever will help her sleep. You could catch up on OT this way and stop the viscious circle of getting earlier and earlier days. You could also do the longer nap first and a shorter catnap in the pm, if you think she'd do that easier.
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Ok, I held out on nap today til 11.30 and she is still asleep 2hrs later!
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Maya slept for 3 hrs then i woke her to preserve bedtime, not sure if i did the right thing or not?
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Nap finished at 2.30 what should i do about bedtime? She does appear tired so I could go with normal time or do i take advantage of the later nap?
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hi rach-
i'd err on the side of caution and go with usual bed time. we always get screwed when we move forward too quickly.
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Cheers Leslie, I did go with the norm in the end, gosh it is so hard trying to get it right isnt it? I cant believe we are still facing sleep problems nearly 2 yrs on.
Rachale x
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AFTER THE GOOD NAP, MAYA FELL ASLEEP AT 6.45 AND WOKE AT 5.20 THIS AM,
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Hi Rachael. Sorry I've been MIA.
Do you think there's a pattern emerging of longer nap = later wakeup? I haven't had time to go back through this thread (it's getting mighty long now ;)) but do you think that might be the case? If it is, on short nap days you could try a bit earlier bedtime and see if that might help with wakeup next morning. It's just I do recall recently seeing a short nap after going down earlier in the day, and then it was a really long stretch til bedtime, like 6.5 hours. The only other thing is to work at lengthening those naps. My little guy on occasions will have a bit of a cry/whinge at about the 1/2 way point of his nap and 99% of the time he'll resettle if I leave him. Could it be possible you're going to her too early? I think we have covered this already and sorry if it's rehashing old ground.
But you're doing really well ;D ;D And remember that the 5.20 a.m. is really 6.20 a.m. pre the time change ;D ;D
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5:20am is better than 4:50am, right? That's (minor) progress, no?
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I sort of remember from the last time you went thru this that your naps got better first, and then after a few days the wake-ups started to get better! I think a few more days of decent naps will get you the waking you want! :) Doing awesome!
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We got an hr and 20 mins again today so now what do i do? do i go back to early bedtimes or stick with the 6.45 time?
Yes Nike you are right longer naps are equalling later wake ups but it is vry rare i manage to extend her naps, i do leave her and only very occasionally she will drop back off with or without intervention. I am just very confused again now to what i should be going for. Early bedtimes mean more overall sleep but early mornings so i wonder how we will ever get later starts, but later bedtimes also equal even earlier mornings. Help, help, help, I am so fed up with early mornings, i really dont mind the short naps if she would tag onto night but i just feel like it is never ending.
Any thoughts?
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Rachel, you seem to be getting longer naps on days when you have long A times in the am. If you keep the pm A time shorter then you might find you get the later wake ups your after. You seem to be getting shorter naps after a later wake up, which suggests not enough A time to give a long nap. I'm guessing here, so ignore me if you don't agree but thats just what I thought seemed to be happening.
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Hi Nik, I really appreciate your input as always. Sometimes it is hard to see the wood for the trees if you know what i mean. I thought i could see that pattern emerging however i am now not so sure, as it is still hit and miss and sometimes she is up 7hrs before a good nap does that not seem to long?
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Rach-
I'm going to echo what Nik said- longer A time in the am seems to give you a longer nap (I think that may be the case with my lo too, but she shows tired signs sooo early). If 7 hours A time gave you a 3 hour nap, and 6 hours A time gave you 1 hour 20 min nap, I'd be inclined to go for > 6 hours A time pre nap.
It also sounds like she needs considerably less A time post nap- about 5 hours or so.
What do you think?
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Sounds like these ladies have hit the nail on the head re. longer A time in the a.m. and shorter A time in the p.m. I was going to suggest in last reply that early wakings can also be associated with not enough A time in the morning, although wasn't sure if this was the case with Maya. Maybe it is though? Why don't you try getting her as close as you can to a midday nap - easier said than done, I know, with a really early waking - then hopefully she'll give you a decent nap, push the day out later and then a shorter A time before bedtime, say only 5 hours from waking.
Remember, too, if she's waking early but happy and well-rested, that's a clear sign she can manage longer A time in the morning. If she's waking still clearly tired then I'd take it slowly ;)
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Hi guys, thanks for your support again. We went for a 6pm bedtime last night and got a 5am waking so 11hrs !! I am going to push nap out like suggested and see where that leads. Maya also shows tired signs very early Leslie then she seems to get a second wind , fingers crossed we may get a longer nap today.
love to you all,
Rachael x
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Ok thought i would try this "new method", after a 11 hr night I put Maya down at 11.45 and she fell asleep at 12pm and we are nearly coming up to the 2hrs mark! I dont want to count my chickens before they hatch but whoop! what about bedtime? any suggestions ithink my body clock is ok at 5am now (although still want it later) but dont want it any earlier that is for sure.
Suggestions always welcome.
Rachael x
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If I remember rightly Rachel, the very first time I helped you ooohh, 2 or 3 posts ago now, we had to move Maya morning nap up considerably to stop early wakings. She was still on 2 naps then, but maybe that is the key, perhaps she does need long A time to get good nap and rid you of early wake ups. Got my fingers crossed.
Don't forget either if your going to give this a fair go you need to stick it out for at least a week to see if its working, don't be dismayed if it all falls apart after 2-3 days that is often the case, for it then to turn around again and get better again.
Just read your new reply, don't push bedtime to far at all. In fact I would stick with what you've been doing as changing bedtime up can really through them out. Give it time to see if its a solid routine before altering things again.
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Cheers Nik, appreciate your help again. About bedtime, I have been putting her down between 6.30-6.45 but last night I took a chance and put her down at 6 as she had such a short nap, do you think 6.30 would be ok? she is still asleep but I think i will wake her at 2.30 as that will be 2.5 hrs. What do you think?
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Sorry didn't get to reply, Lily woke up and we went to park...
what did you do in the end?
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Hi Rachael. Congrats on the 2 hour nap ;D But I'm confused - you said you were putting her to bed at 6 p.m. bc of shortened nap. Did I miss a post somewhere??
My gut feeling is after all of the OT and sleep probs in the past, I wouldn't wake her from her nap. Up to 3 hours is normal and you'll probably find she won't sleep past that anyway. I'd just let her go. I know you worry about bedtimes then, but if you keep within 1/2 an hour of normal bedtime then there shouldn't be any dramas. If she did nap for 3 hours, you could try 6.45 or maybe 7 if you think she's definitely not ready for bed. But tread carefully ;) She will let you know anyway if the timing is off. Are you still watching for sleepy cues? My DS2 might have slept 12 hours O/N and taken a good nap but if he's had an otherwise big day, he will definitely let me know. He yawns constantly in the bath and then gets really whingey around story time, even goes as far as pointing down the hallway towards his bedroom. Does Maya give out any of these signals?? Anyway, I wouldn't be pushing past 7 p.m. bedtime yet.
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Ok, here it goes. Hi Nike, I changed bedtime the night before as she had only slept for 1hr 10 mins which meant her nap ended at 1pm so I moved it forward for 1 night in the hope she would catch up, she did take a 11 hr night but woke at 5am.
Next day dragged nap out to 12 pm by the time she went to sleep and she did wake at 2.30 even though i was going to wake her she woke herself at that time.
I aimed for bed at 6.30 as she appeared really tired around 5ish tbh, and she woke at 4.15!!!!!
I left her as she was only calling my name and she possibly fell back to sleep around 4.30 til 5.10, needless to say i have been awake since 4.15.
With regards to tired signs, she just cuddles on my lap and gets a bit more clingy , but then she can just jump back up and run around again so she is pretty hard to read.
i have been confused with bedtimes because i have been altering to super early if nap has finished early so as not to leave a huge gap before bed and these nights have been successful in getting an 11hr night but then does not help me in keeping a regular bedtime that is why i was unsure yesterday, espcially as we were only talking 4hrs from nap to bed.
She def seems to only do 12-12.5 hrs in a 24hrs period with nt and naps combined
Rachael x
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By 10am she was already showing tired signs so again i am confused as to what to do, did i also mention she has been a horror to be around, not sure i can wiat til nap time cfor some peace!!!!!
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Me again, sorry. I put Maya down at 11.20 as she was finding it hard to stay awake, however i really had a fight on my hands and it has been like that for 3-4 days now since i have been stretching her A time. She screams, kicks like someone possessed but i know she is def not UT. Tbh if i put her down too early she goes down like a dream although does not sleep long and if i time it right we have no probs going down either only when OT so bascially i still cant get it right.
Rachael x
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Got past 1hr 20 mark, she did whimper but still asleep. I love these long naps but I am so blinking lost as what to do, I know i should be cleaning, tydying up etc but i am too scared to move incase she wakes. Just dont tell the hubby, lol!
Rachael x
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I'd go with another early bedtime tonight even if you get a good nap out of her, don't worry if its only 4hrs from nap end just get her down as close to 6pm as possible. This seems to result in a good night length, giving a better wake up. You can still stretch that morning A time tomorrow and hopefully get another good nap then aiming for another early night.
If you can stabalise her routine by doing this you can then look to shifting things forward.
No guarantees its gonna work but hey, its a plan right? got to be worth a try!
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Maya slept for 2.5hrs again, awake at 2pm and attempted bed at 6.30 as we were out. I am really no good at this but i would guess she was OT as she did not settle until 7.30 and would not let me out the room where if she is UT she will babble to herself. God only knows what 2mmorw will bring.
fingers crossed.
Rachael x
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Woke at 4.15 went in briefly and she went off til 5.20. She woke up really upset and although i tried to get her back off she was screaming so high pitched and it took me a while to settle her down but still did not go back to sleep. I feel such a failure that i cant work this out by myself but i just cant get it right and i am so confused now i dont know what i should be doing.
Help before i go crazy!
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Rachel
I think the long A time in am is working in that it is giving a good long nap. BUT you really need to be getting her to bed by 6pm for this too work, otherwise your going to keep getting her way to OT to go to sleep and get another EW next day. If you can get a consistant run of good naps then very early bedtimes I think you might find her routine stabalises. I'm not 100% sure the long morning A time will work all the time but if we can use it to really give long naps and use early beds to get good 11hr+ nights then she will most certainly catch right up on sleep, at this point things will change up again but at least she will not be OT anymore and I'm positive the ew's are caused by OT.
Chin up hun, your certainly not a failure, if any of us BW's could work this lot out by ourselves then this website wouldn't exsist!
Love Nik x
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Thanks hun for your much needed support again. Maya only slept 1.5 today however she was at her nan's and she never tends to sleep so much there, also she still would not go down until 7.15! I shall keep plodding on,
xxx
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what time did you try to get her down for bed? after a long morning A time she will need really early bed time, plus if she has had a long morning A time then not napped for a good 2hrs+ you will have to try to get her down even earlier if at all possible.
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Totally agree on super early bedtime on early-start and short nap days. DS2, for example, woke early yesterday morning at 6.20 (usually it's past 7). I had visitors in the morning so was later putting him down for nap, 40 mins later in fact, although he was powering along and holding up really well. Took a shorter nap, 1.5 hrs (normal 2). Thought he was doing ok and put him to bed as normal, 6.45. Well, it took 1.5 hours to get him to sleep :o The poor little guy was so OT he was wired. Fortunately he sleeps in in the morning to make up, but I'll give him an early nap today and early bedtime to compensate for the last 24 hours. This is the way we get back on track. We have the odd day like this here or there.
Looks like you're really going to have to take each day as it comes, Rachael. :)
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We tried at 6.15 but would not settle until 7.15, it is always hard on a Tues and fri as i work and my mil has her and she is nanny obssessed and gets worked up when nanny leaves. That said you will not believe this but she slept til 7.34!!!! My hubby and i take it in turns to get up with maya at the wkend I am so glad i picked today lol.
have a good day
Rachael x
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YAY for Maya! That's fantastic! Were you up at 5am today, waiting for her to wake up?
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Hi Rachael!
I'm just catching up on the latest on your thread... Been very busy on the NW board.
Great to hear of that late morning wake up! Hope you actually slept for it :) How are things going now? Still good?
xxxxx Vicku
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Hi Vicku, thaks for still thinking of me. Things have been pretty good tbh although I am wary about saying it incase it goes wrong. We were out at the wkend so Maya did not get much sleep nap wise as she was busy playing with her cousins plus she had a late nt on sat, but she took 2 cat naps on the sun, bed early and up at 6am. Napped for 2.5 hrs on monday and bed at 7pm, tues awake at 6am , yesterday she only napped 1.5 so i put her to bed at 6.40 and she slept til 6.20 this morning. I am trying to aim for a 12pm nap and bed at 6.30 or 7 depending on how long nap is that said we were in town today and she fell asleep in her pram at 11.20 and I actually got her home and in bed without waking her and she is still asleep nearly 1hr 30 after that is really a first!!!
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I'm crossing my fingers here Rachel, thats fantastic news, long may it continue :-)
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fingers crossed here too.................... E x
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We've all been hit with the gastro bug here, hence the reason for my absence :( But what great news to come back to! Great naps and long overnighters WOO HOO! Rachael, I know you often second-guess yourself but you're doing really well with working out nap and bedtimes, esp to counter things such as the occasional outings and late nights that can otherwise muck everything up. In such a sleep-sensitive little girl, you know now that an earlier bedtime is the key if she has a late night or shorter nap the day before. The key is to not let it get on top of her/you again, to the extent that she's just so OT that you go back to those old days ;)
WELL DONE! ;D ;D
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Wooohooo! Anti BW jinx!
I am so excited for you that this is all finally coming together for you after sooooo many months! Everything is crossed for you ;D
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Sounds like things are finally settling. Yaaay! My fingers are crossed that this continue for you! Now it's us having NWs again ::) No idea why, maybe bad dreams as she's crying but settles as soon as I go to her. Her molars are still not through, so could be those too, who knows?
Big hugs to you and Maya for sticking it out for so long. Your hard work has paid off ;D
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Ok, I knew I would jinx myself by posting our success! back to 4.30 wake up this morning with no sign of going back to sleep. Maya took a 2hr nap yesterday and I aimed for a 6.30 bed still alhtough she did not fall asleep til 7pm which has been pretty typical, so why the early start again? Has she caught up on sleep now and 12hrs is all she needs or has she somehow got OT again? I have been really consistent and she has been nappiing really well so i really cant see how it can be the latter. I really thought we had it "fixed"
Rachael x
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Don't despair honey, there's always set backs and the odd bad days/nights. We never get more than 12 hrs here now, but glad to be getting it at the 'right' times for me... well mostly :) I'm not sure if it's Ot or UT for her now, but OT does seem quite unlikely given that she's slept so well recently. Well Lois woke up with a cold and temperature this morning, so that explains the wake ups last few nights I guess.
Hope it was just a little blip for Maya and she'll be back to later wake ups again. Regression is common after a while of things being better, but often stabilises again. Hugs!!!
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I second that, do a super early bedtime tonight to make sure it doesn't spiral and hopefully things will settle again. You have always suspected that she doesn't need as much sleep as is average for her age, try to aim for a routine that is somewhere in the middle of the min required sleep and the max required sleep and see what happens. BUT only after you make sure this early morning gets sorted first.
You are getting there honey, honestly you are :-)
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Well, third day of back to early wakings! 4.45, 5am and another 5am. I really thought we had nailed it this time. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
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OH bugger!!
Have you been doing super early bedtimes? I still think she needs to be going to bed by 5.30pm max preferably 5pm when she wakes up so early, otherwise she just isn't getting the chance to catch up.
Her clock really does seem set to 5am for some reason. Have you ever set her day by the clock running from 5am-5/5.30pm? then shift it 10mins a day. When Lily woke at 5am for a long stretch after going onto 1 nap I moved her day back to where she was naturally starting it then shifted it forward myself. Just a thought.
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Hi Nik, thanks for helping again. We have been doing early bedtimes but not as early as you suggest so maybe that is what we need to do. We do have quite a lot going on leading up to xmas plus we are going away on 17 dec so no doubt everything will be completly ballsed up anyway and we have a time difference to contend with, I really am a glutten for punishment ! anyway I think we will prob just muddle through until after we come back as it will all be undone then anyway and she does have a history of sleeping super well on holiday so heres counting down to that. I will prob still have a moan on here though until I can get serious again.
love to you both xxx
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I think Maya is def Ot with a cold coming too! she woke at 3am this morning and took around 1hr to get back off,she has not been that bad in ages. She woke at 6am , but as she did not fall asleep until 7pm (although we tried much earlier) she still totalled 10 hrs!
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poor little thing, hope she feels better soon x
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hi nik, Maya took a 2,5 hr nap yesterday (which finished at 2pm)but i still aimed for bed for 6pm and she fell asleep at 6.20 til 5.20!
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oh bless, she must really need it, crossing fingers it continues after she feels better :-)
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Isn't that just the way, Rachael? You just get on top of things and then they get sick, which puts you straight back to square one >:( Wishing Maya a speedy recovery and that all will be back on track soon xo
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She would not take her nap yesterday until 12 pm, I tries for a 6pm bedtime but she just chatted away to herself until 7pm when she finally fell asleep, woke at 4.30!!!! and really was not interested in going back to sleep, she was not even upset just chatting again'!!! I did take her in bed with me as i have woke with her cold, thanks maya! and just had not got the strength this morning. She acted like she wanted to be up for the day however after about 1hr she fell asleep until 7.16!!
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wishing you both a speedy recovery.
have you got any calpol night? I used it for Lily's naps and nights when she just recently had a cold, it's bloody marvelous stuff, helps them off to sleep a treat ;)
just remember to give it to her 30min before you want her be asleep
:-*
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Thanks Nik, once again. I messed nap time up today as she woke so late I was unsure when i should offer it, so I stuck with normal time and she was so obviously not tired. She did fall asleep at 12pm but only for 1hr 15 which I think is UT for Maya rather than OT so I guess it will be early to bed tonight again. Any idea what I should be doing I am getting a little confused again, do I go with A times orclock times,
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I'd be aiming to keep her on the schedule you where just on regarding A times, but if shes unwell then you really just have to play it by ear until the cold is better. If you find her day has shifted up then go with that, use things to your advantage.
I am totally guessing here of course as Maya does like to keep everyone guessing about her sleep ;-)
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Tell me about it! I tried for an early night but she is taking FOREVER to fall asleep and not cryng either just wants to chat, if she tells me once more nannys dog has a poorly foot I will scream! anyway she finally fell asleep at 6.30 so could be worse. Tbh her cold does not seem to be bothering her, boy I have felt rough today though, actually wonder if I am turning into a man as it really has knocked me for six, lol. What is Lily having for christmas?
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Hi Rachael!
I hope your cold gets better soon! I've got a nasty one too with a cough and heavy chest, so in full sympathy for you...
Lois has an ear infection which explains her NWs and stuff.
LOL at turning into a man ;D
Big hugs!!!
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Morning all! Thought early bed might do the trick, but no. Nw at 12am for 30 mins, guess it is due to her cold but it is so hard to be sypathetic when it seems like it has been going on for ever,plus she was up at 4.45 for the day. Apart from the odd occasion 10 hr nts still seem to be the norm. I am so fed up.
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Hi Rachael
I have still been following your progress and was really pleased that things seemed to be heading the right direction. Sure that this is a temporary blip as Maya is not well, it always seems to really muck their sleep up but sure it will get back on track. Re the 10 hr nights being the norm - we definitely do have that with Grace - occasionally will do something else but mostly thats it and we have now accepted that that is how it is with her and have stopped trying to do anything other than make sure she has the opportunity to sleep as much as she will. I think you have been getting loads of great advice and help from everyone on here but maybe she is always going to be like Grace and need quite a bit less sleep than other kids her age?
I'm not sure you would feel the same as me but once I accepted it I stopped stressing about it all so much and so if she has a short nap (still common round here) I don't get really down about it like I used to. I just think that I tried my best for so many months and it made no difference at all apart from made me feel like I was going round the bend at times, worrying and working out times and totals of sleeps etc. Now I just am thankful if she does have an 11 hr night and an hour and a half nap - I enjoy the good sleep days and get on with the others!
Anyway, I hope things continue to improve for you.
Lisax
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Hi Lisa, thanks for still thinking of me. I really dont mind 10 hr nights and dont mind short naps it is just these ew that are killing me, she woke at 4.30 again this morning, I persevered with her and after 1 hr she fell asleep until 7am. If I could just get her sleeping til 6am I would be happy but it only happens short term and then we are back to 5 and earlier. As long as she slept til 6 i would not be so stressed with naps/timing of bedtime etc. I just think i have her sorted and feel relaxed and then it blows up in my face and then i feel so disheartened, i cant even argue my case with hubby anymore as whatever i do it does not seem to work, so i really dont know how to play this now. What should i do with nap today? if i stick to normal time i will prob only get 1hr 15 as she wont be tired enough, so should i go with A times today? and then whaat about bed? just for the record she napped 2 hrs yesterday from 11-13.10 but would not fall asleep until 7.15!!! Could someone just point my in the right direction again i am getting so mixed up again. xx
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Hi rachel, sorry things are getting confusing again honey. I don't have time at present to figure out what my plan of action would be, going to have a think about a routine based on a 10hr night. What is her average total sleep in 24hrs? can we assume to aim for a 2hr nap? Also remind me how old she is now, I loose track :-[
made me laugh about turning into a man ;D mens colds are awful aren't they ::)
If you ask Lily what she is getting for christmas she will tell you "a pram" if you ask who is getting it she used to say Grandpa as thats who she asked for one from but we have been talking about letting father christmas know thats what she wants, so now when you ask her who is getting her pram she will tell you "that kwissmas man" :)
how about Maya, has she been asking for things this year?
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Hi Nik, Maya would not take her nap today until 12.40 but she slept for 1.5 which was pretty good, i had her in bed by 6.15 as i was unsure how to play bedtime and it took her til 7pm before she fell asleep she could have been Ut given it was only just over 4hrs when i put her down but she has become a nightmare at bedtime and taking so long to fall asleep and as i really dont know what to do with her at the mo i cant be sure that it is UT or OT that is the cause.
Average nap is 1.5 , 2hrs only tend to happen if really long A time 6.5-7 hrs.
Maya has not really got the concept of christmas yet, although she is really scared of santa and when ever i say Santa is coming she gets really upset! We have got her a pram, dolls and a kitchen as she is really into role playing at the mo, but we are actually going away for christmas this year , i just did not want to have a traditional christmas this year , I found it too hard last yr with mom not being there so i figured if we did something different i wont keep looking at her empty space, so anyway we are off to New York and then on a cruise round the Caribean for New Year so Maya will have 2 christmases then her bday is on 8 jan too so lots of celebrations.
lovr to you both,
Rachael x
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Hello Rach!
Just popping in with some hugs. Hope things are ok!
We had a routine based on 12.5 hrs in 24 for ages (now it's all a bit of a mess cos of nursery, illness, teething and what have you ::) but give us a shout if you need help designing one.
So cute Nik that Lily is calling him 'the kwissmas man' LOL
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Hi hun, thanksd for stopping by. How is Lois with her bgb, I noticed you have a new thread open, I hope she is not causing you too much trouble? Anyway, I think I am going to have to look at a 12.5 day but I am unsure how to start or what to do so anyhelp you can throw at me, go ahead.
hugs to you both,
Rachael x
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I think you will need some more help coming up with a routine that works with just 1 nap based on a 10hr night. I just can't get my head round the A times, they scream WRONG to me cos if she is in bed by 8pm wakes at 6am then naps for 2hrs at 1pm-3pm thats a 7hr am A time and a 5hr pm A time. Or you could do 12.30-2.30 nap giving 6.5hr am A time and 5.5hr pm A time. I'm guessing here but I would think after a 6.5/7hr am A time then she will need a short pm A time to prevent bad OT by bedtime.
SO.... I'm gonna stand back and let someone else who has dealt with short nights come up with some ideas. I'll still be here for support but I'm outta my depth with those length A times for one so young.
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Thanks Nik, for your continued support anyway. I see your are having your own issues with Lily, tbh reading yuor post it was very similar to Maya at the moment, so I am wondering if we are having teething issues too, as looking back this blip happens every once in a while and i think it may be teething as she becomes really clingly, long nw's, ew's and i am not sure it is all down to OT. Yesterday she woke at 4.30 for 10 mins and slept til 5.30 , napped at 11.20 for 2 hrs and I aimed for bed at 6.30 , which i know was short but i am still guesssing too! anyway she fell asleep about 7 after running rings round me, she chats also, and keeps telling me the same thing over and over, throws her dummy out asks for things, blah, blah, blah! and wont let me out the room. She then woke at 3am!!!!! and was not interseted in going back to sleep, doing the same thing again she did not even seem a tiny but tired which cant be right after 8.5hrs, surely? she was not even crying only laughing, little sod! I gave her some meds just in case and we did take her in bed with us (very bad parents, but we had been out and neither of us had the energy to deal with her at this time) she still took around 1hr to go back to sleep which is pretty normal again at the mo, and she slept til 6am. So the bottom line is I think I am going to be giving meds for a short time again to see if it makes any difference, as like i mentioned before when it has been this bad before it was down to teething as she normally settles herself at night for bed at least, although she is also coming on leaps and bounds with her vocab so maybe is is developmental too. Argghhghh , there is always something, isnt there? Hope you gets things sorted too.
Hugs xxx
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cheers honey :-)
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I am in a real mess guys, I have opened another post just incase someone can make any sense of this daughter of mine, hope you dont mind. And if you have any more wisdom, please share. Thanks again for all your help, dont loose touch xxx
Rachael
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Sorry I've not kept up to date Rach. We've struggled with illness here for 2 and a half weeks so time has been scarce on here...
Lois' routine was:
bed 8:30pm
wake 6:30 or 7am
nap 1-3pm
...so 6-6.5 hrs A in am, and 5.5 hrs A in pm, and that worked really well for her. If she had a shorter A time in am she'd nap shorter and that was more problematic as THEN she'd get OT by bedtime, but with the long nap she didn't.
I will look for your new thread :-*
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Just out of curosity Vicku, does this mena that L can at max take only 10 hrs night sleep?
I am wondienrg if thats part of pupr problem thta DS cannot do mor ethan 10 hrs so since he goe sto bed at 7:30 he is up by 5:30, maybe I just need to shift his day a bit...
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Hi again Mukta :D Just been on your thread!
Yeah that's right, Lois NEVER sleeps more than 10.5 hrs at night, but sleeps throught the night great (unless ill/teething/travelling etc.) We custom made her routine to take that into account so that we could get rid of EWs after dealing with 5am wake ups for ages and having tried everything to get her to sleep longer, earlier bedtimes, various A times etc. She just seems to have lower sleep needs than average, but then again if all kids had average or above, the average wouldn't be where it is would it? :P 12 hrs in 24 is enough for her and she thrives on that.
Certainly worked for us but you never know as all kids are different... Could be worth a try though if earlier bedtimes hasn't helped. we do earlier bedtimes to catch up if she is seriously OT and/or ill and rarely then gets 11 hrs out of her, but if we keep doing it after OT is better we get EW again.
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I ve been AWOL for some time, so have missed this...
How are things Rachel? :-*