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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: lesorl on August 30, 2008, 11:08:28 am
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My short napper (used to be 40 mins or so from the time she was about 6 weeks) has finally gone to 1 nap and usually sleeps about 1 hour 20 mins- 1hour 40 mins. In order to get a nap longer than 40 mins, I need to push her A time to about 5 hours 50 mins. I've tried getting her to sleep about 4.5 hours after nap, but it takes about 30-60 mins (and sometimes longer) for her to get to sleep. Then she'll wake in the middle of the night for about 2 hours, tossing and turning.
I know she's OT, but I don't know how to fix it. If I shorten the A time, I'll get a much shorter nap. Can anybody help? We're desperate for some sleep here.
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Yikes, that' s a toughie...she does dound OT and the only way to fix that is break the cycle so IMO bring that A time back to about 4.5hrs-5hrs max , work on extending the nap (what are you doing to extend?) and do a super early bedtime
What is your current routine like?
DS used to go for a nap around 2pm (almost 3 yrs old) and take anything up to 45mins to go to sleep this week I have put him down at 12.45 and he's been going to sleep in mins...... and he shows NO tired signs.
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I think she'll only sleep about 50 mins max if I bring the A time back, and I've never been successful in extending the nap.
Here's our current routine:
6:30am ish Wake
Nap around 12:15pm
Bedtime about 4.5 hours post nap
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how about inverting that? having shorter A time before first nap and longer A time after?
so she's going to bed about 7? have you tried other bedtimes?
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like I mentioned, she doesn't nap much if I shorten her morning A time. she'll sleep better at night if she goes to bed earlier, but i can't seem to get the A time right.
she'll go to bed around 6:15pm-6:30pm, and sometimes she falls asleep right away, but usually she's not asleep til 7pm ish. Last night it was 7:45pm, and then she was up for 2 hours b/t 2:30am and 4:30am, and up for the day at 6:30am.
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just marking my spot - I could have written your post.... I'm in this cycle too. My DD is ok to go down for a nap but does take about 30mins to get her to sleep but she will only nap for about 45mins and will then have NWs for 2hrs (like last night). Just today I managed to keep her up until 12:30pm (if she's awake during the ngiht she is usually ready for nap at 10:30am) and she is still asleep after 1.5hrs so that's good but we'll see what tonight brings.
Hope someone out there has some advice for us.
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any sign of teething?
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no outwardly signs of teething, but a big swollen gum where her last 1 year molar is coming (it's been coming since January, I swear). And I have given her motrin on different nights, and it seems to have no effect.
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teething is a pain (scuse the pun!) in that it's hard to work out thats the culprit till aafter the tooth has popped....
What have you tried to extend naps?
Do you keep a food log?
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WI/WO only serves to get her ed after she wakes from a nap, and I've tried leaving her for awhile and even rocking her b2s, and she'll have none of it.
No, I don't keep a food log. Though she hasn't been eating any new/different foods lately.
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how does she do when she only does 50min nap? Does she go straight to sleep at night?
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Just remembered: when my DS did this for a bit ( i think he was learning new skills of some kind...) I used to stay in the room with him, reminding him every 10 min sor so in a frim voice that it was sleep time
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Yes, she goes right to bed when she's only slept 50 mins. Last night I put her in bed after only 4 hours after her nap of 1 hour 20 mins, and she was asleep by 4 hours 15 mins. She woke about 3 hours 15 mins later, I gave her some Tylenol and then told her I'd be right back. Well she fell asleep about 15 mins later, and then slept til 5:52am this morning. YAY- almost 12 hours last night.
Maybe she just needs significantly less A time post nap???
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possibly....try it for a few days but watch out for tired signs... well done you X
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Why oh why did it take 1.5 hours tonight to get her to sleep?
I suppose we're in for another 2 hour NW.
Good times here.
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oh no! hugs my dear....anything else bothering her maybe?
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Yes, today she woke with a good cold- mucus dripping out of her nose when she sneezes (sorry TMI). I guess she was having trouble breathing with a paci and a clogged nose.
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aww get well soon
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I HATE THE OT NAP OF 1 hour 15 mins!!!
Sorry for the screaming, but I can't take much more of the awful sleeping.
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(((HUGS)))I am so right there with you lesorl. :'( :'( :'(
Remember, the OT nap of 1 hour 15 is so much better than the OT nap of 30-45 mins. It's not a great nap, but usually long enough to combat NWs and EWs. Early to bed tonight should help.
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Hi Leslie
Just got back from holiday and Lily was doing some super long morning A times as she will only nap in the car when away, largely it was 7hrs before catching a nap. I find though if I then give for her what is a short pm A time then it keeps the OT at bay and she was still taking solid nights sleep and not waking till 8am everyday. The only days we had trouble was when she didn't nap till 5pmish then a late bedtime of 9/10pm then we got disturbed nights and super late bedtime of 10.30 resulted in ew of 5.30am!! We where in spain so where 1hr later than normal for us, so that 5.30 waking was actually 4.30am to her little body.
So all that to say that a short pm A time after a long am A time works for us, not that I think she would cope all the time on those A times but Lily sleep needs are quite different to M's as you know :-)
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Leslie our naps were also getting shorter recently and so we now have a 5½ hour morning A time and a 4½ afternoon A time and things have improved immensely and even if she has a late nap we have put her to bed no later than 7, it seems to be working, I read on another poast that when they get to this age their afternoon A time often decreases while the morning A increases. Good luck :)
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Nik- it's so nice to hear from you, I missed you! How was your trip?
I don't know where to go with this one. Yesterday she napped 1 hour, and then extended another 40 mins, waking at 1:40pm. She was asleep at 6:30pm, and up briefly at 8pm, then up at 4am. When she woke at 4am, she did her moan every 5-10 mins thing for an hour. Then went b2s for 30 mins. Woke up crying at 5:35am, and then b2s again at 5:58am-6:38am.
Where am I going wrong? She has a cold right now, but this has been going on the last 2 weeks or so.
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I really wouldn't like to say what to do as M always stumps me!
A few things spring to mind so I will just throw them out there. Firstly the very obvious one, Teething? this might explain why its gone on for a few weeks and Lily gets teething colds, some of which have me convinced she has a real cold until a tooth pops through.
Have you been reading Rachpem post's? we are now fairly confident that Maya just needs less sleep than the average and by continously juggling things to get a full night or longer naps she kept getting ew's and a fair few long nws, once she got rid of nws the ew's really kicked in, but although she needs less sleep because things where haywire and naps suffered too she was also OT. All in all it makes it very hard to find a reason why it just wouldn't work. Just a thought.
I know you finally arrived at good nap's by really extending her morning A time and yes it could be that she really does need long am A time but when was the last time you tried a shorter A time in the am? could throwing in a short A time just to see what effect it has on her nap length be worth a shot? if things aren't great already it might be worth it just to see if maybe she is now needing shorter A time, having got past the short nap problem. I seem to recall Laura saying she thought that maybe if she had reduced Ollies A time when he started to drop them then he might of kept the nap, she seemed his A time requires had switched over. Just another thought!
Personally I would keep doing what you are doing until her cold clears up as you have no chance of fixing the problem while she is unwell.
will email about holiday, suffice to say it was HOT we went to beach everyday and I didn't cook for a week, what more can a girl ask for ;-)
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Nik, so nice to have you back :-*
I've been following Rachael's posts, and though similar, I think Maya tends to be an EW but takes a decent nap. Yesterday we only had 1 hour 10 mins, though the coughing/post nasal drip/ teething is probably contributing to the horrendous sleep.
I think she actually needs increased A time to take a longer nap, I just haven't found the magic number yet.
When she has a bad night and I shorten her A time, she'll sleep about 50 mins, so I don't think that's the answer.
I'm leaning towards a set bedtime to see if that helps.
Yesterday she was up at 1:40pm from her nap, and didn't fall asleep til 7:30pm- and then was up at 5am.
I'm so darn tired :'(
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(((HUGS))) I can understand how frustrated and tired you are. Me, too. My ds only had 9h20-9h50m night sleep. Yesterday he only had 10 min pm nap and had 6:30pm bedtime. (His usual bedtime is 8-8:30pm) Although super early bedtime is helpful to beat some OT, his wake-up also becomes earlier than before. Now he has no consistent wake-up and bedtime. This really drives me crazy. I can't imagine when he & I both can get a decent night sleep.
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Crikey
Oh Leslie you never cut a break for long do you.
What time did you try to get her down for bed, what time had she woke in am? If she'd had a long morning A time I would of been tempted to try a 6pm bedtime. Giving almost 4hr pm A time.
But I'm totally guessing here, so don't quote me on it. If you think its OT then cut pm A time well short and if necessary do a set bedtime, personally I think they do really work. Even if it takes a while.
Like I say I woudn't be trying too much at present while she is poorly, your gonna have to just ride the storm a while longer. I do think you'll get there in the end, you just keep getting chucked a curve ball every time things start to improve.
HUGS
Nik x
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Well she went b2s yesterday from about 5:10am-5:40am, and then I *think* another 20 mins b/t 5:50am and 6:10am. So she fell asleep at 12:15pm, but then only slept 50 mins :'(. I did extend another 40 mins til 1:40pm (she seems to wake around this time). Then I tried bed at 6:10pm, and she was having none of it. Finally fell off at 7:10pm, and slept til 5:25am this morning. I *think* she went b2s til 6am.
When I've tried to keep post nap A time to 4-4.5 hours, she generally resists.
I guess I just have to ride out the teething/illness for now.
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looks that way.
HUGS honey :-*
are you embalming her with vapour rub and dosing her up with meds. I cover lily front and back when she has a cold, someone told me to do the soles of their feet too and put socks on. Supposed to get in better that way :-\
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just another thought, is she resisting bed in an OT or UT way? you could try an even shorter A time, say 3.75hrs and just see how that goes ???
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honestly, i have no idea if it's UT or OT. maybe it starts as UT, and turns to OT?
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wi/wo doesn't work for us to extend either, but it might be worth trying w2s to extend that nap. With Meghan we put her down earlier and did w2s (she usually woke at either 45 min or 1.5 hours).
Meggy is the opposite of yours. She's now a dream at naptime. But bedtime is not so great.
Good luck!
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last night it was only 20 mins before she fell asleep at 6:30pm. No NWs, but up for the day at 5:40am. Nap started at 11:40am and she slept 1 hour 17 mins, til 12:54pm.
Do I need to increase morning A time to get a longer nap?
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thats actually not bad, 11hr night and 1.17nap. if it where me I would stick with this until your sure her cold/teething is done. Then when totally healthy if you want to experiment with pushing that nap you could but I'd do 5mins a day as she is already doing a long A time. That said once the OT from being ill has work off you might find her nap extends again on its own.
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Last night she slept 6:15pm- 6:10am, with 2 screams but no real "NWs".
Aiming for a nap at 12:10pm, and I *think* the post nap A time is about 5 hours- 5 hours 10 mins.
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thats good, very pleased for you Leslie :-) looks like shes turning the corner again (she says touching wood!)
did you have to go down down the road of cutting nights to give longer naps? as she will, if I remember, do 12hr ish nights?
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ok, riddle me this-
last night she fell asleep about 6:55pm (after waking from her nap at 1:35pm), and was up at 2:15am for about 30 mins (given meds for teeth) and then b2s til 6:35am (late wake up for her).
I put her down about 12:40pm (she's been doing 6 hours A time lately) and she slept... 43 mins! I managed to AP and extend another 30 mins, but what happened? Should I be going by clock times?
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wouldn't like to say what happened, other than they do sometimes just take a crap nap for no real obvious reason. Other than that, could it of been teeth still? if she stirred at 40min mark and her teeth where bothering her she may not of been able to get back to sleep.
what time has she been waking on average from her nap lately? Lily was stuck at 2.30 for a long time. It didn't matter as I preseve bedtime by waking her at 2.30 anyway but a few times I have thought she would and wanted her to sleep past 2.30 and like clockwork she woke at 2.30
I'd ignore today and just continue to do what you have been doing and see what happens, 1 day isn't enough to think you should have to change something to sort it out, you just end up chasing your tail doing that :-)
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Well I think I'm about to start chasing my tail...
Last night after waking from nap at 1:53pm, bed at 6:45pm, NW from 11pm-12:30pm, and then up for the day at 6:55am. That means if we go by A time, her nap won't be til 1pm today!
What gives?
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So the plot thickens- today she woke at 6:55am, and yawned at 11:34am, nap at 12:08pm-1:22pm, and then extended AP til 2:22pm.
Is nap time at 12:10pm now, regardless of wake up?
And what time is bedtime today?
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OK so 7:10pm-7:10am last night.
I thought her nap was at 12:15pm, she fell asleep about 12:25pm and slept til 1:40pm. What gives?
So confused, don't know whether to follow A times or clock times. And will her nap EVER lengthen?
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If you've got upto 7am wake up times I would start waking her at 7am then do nap at 12.30/1pm whichever A time you think suits her best then work on 1.5hr nap and bedtime 5hrs was it after that then just stick with it. That way if you control her wake up time you can set nap at set time but it will also be the A time she needs and if you keep nap to set length you can then fix bedtime to be required A time post nap. does that make sense?
You know how long she will sleep at night, right? you also know what A times she needs pre and post nap, whats left in the middle is the length nap she can take to keep to these timings.
As you know Lily never took a long nap because she does 12hr nights, when her nap started extending and I let it she started waking early in the morning, so I've fixed it back to set nap time and length & bedtime, it works for us and you can plan your day around it.
does that help honey?
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Nik- that helps greatly!!! Where would I be without you? :-*
Since her nights are generally 12 hours, I guess I'm only going to get at most a 1.5 hour nap. She seems to prefer long nights to long naps.
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7:30pm-6:30am last night, and a 2.5 hour nap today ending at 2:30pm ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
So is bedtime 7pm, or 7:30pm?
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Yay! That is great. Finally!!!!
I personally would've gone for a 7:30 bedtime in hopes of replicating the same times tomorrow. Did her nap start at noon? Maybe this is the ticket. 11 hour nights and a nap from 12-2:30. Wouldn't that be perfect?
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Hi, I am going through similar situation. My lo is 20 months old and all of a sudden her naps shorten to 1 hour, rarely 1.5 hour.
I tried awake times earlier, and later (5.5 and 6) and still get only 1 hour nap. But like your lo, she sleeps 11.25-11.5 at night.
So are you going by clock or awake times now?
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Well I compromised and had her in bed at 7:15pm, asleep by 7:30pm. I still can't believe she took such a long nap- hopefully she's not getting sick!
I honestly think I needed to stretch her A time to 6 hours in order to get a nap of more than 1 hour. Once that was established (consistent naps of > 1 hour), I brought her A time back to 5.5 hours. Of course there was lots of experimenting along the way with A times, but that's what seems to work best for her.
Siria- my lo can sleep long nights, ~12 hours, but her naps have always been short. Is there anything going on with your lo, e.g. teeth, developmentally, etc.? When did the shorter naps start?
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Hi Lesorl!
The 1 hour naps started two weeks ago---she is all done with teething except 2 year molars (there are no signs of that). Developmentally, not sure..just that her vocabulary has increased a great deal.
So right now you are doing 5.5 awake time in morning and night? So after you did 6 hours, you went back to 5.5? Did that make naps shorter?
Thanks for response!