BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: campbellchick on October 05, 2008, 07:41:27 am
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My DS has suddenly started having EW's and I'm not sure what is causing them :-\. He is in full-time daycare as DH and I both work 5 days a week, so the maximum amount of nap time he gets there is about 1.15hrs and is often from 45 mins - 1hr. He used to sleep for at least 1.5hr - 2hr naps at home and he still often does on the weekends. He has always been on the low end of the A times. At daycare he is in the Toddler Room, so is sleeping on the mats on the floor, but I think it might be due to the distractions of the other kids waking from their naps and getting up that he doesn't sleep for longer.
We don't get home until close to 6pm and then we have dinner and bath to get through before I can put the kids down. His bedtime is generally at 7pm, but it is about 7.15pm or slightly later by the time we've gone through the bedtime routine and have read a book (or three). Over the past week and a half, he has been waking up at 6am whereas he used to wake up at 6.45am - 7am.
At first I thought maybe he was ready for a later bedtime? He just doesn't seem even slightly tired at 7pm anymore - he is almost wound up. But that also leds me to believe maybe it is just an OT thing too?
OR - I have just thought of another theory. I wonder if he is waking due to hunger? He often comes home from daycare starving, so we give him dinner straight away at 6pm. Then we used to give him a cup of milk right before bed - so about 6.45pm, but as he wasn't drinking much of it, I've just cut this out in the last week or so. do you think maybe this would have anything to do with it? He really only used to drink not even half of the milk before bed, generally because he is still full from dinner.
Any thoughts/advice is greatly welcomed as I am not sure which way to go with his bedtime.
thanks in advance, Kerrie
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I would think that he is o/t - daycare is incredibly exhausting for them as there is so much going on, and combined with the shorter sleep it's likely to lead to o/t. Our 23-month old is the same - she sleeps 2-2.5 hours at home but a maximum of 1.5 hours at nursery. She is completely wiped out wiped out by the time she gets home - although this tends to manifest in extreme naughtiness! Bedtime is VERY early on nursery day! ;) If it's at all possible, I would suggest that you try putting him to bed earlier to see if it helps.
As for the hunger thing, it is a very long time since the amount dd eats during the day has had an impact on her overnight sleep - my experience would suggest that they have grown out of it by this age. It's possible that he is missing the comfort of milk last thing, though.
HTH. Cx
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Hugs Kerrie!
We're going through almost exactly the same thing with DD since she started daycare about a month ago. If he's getting a lot less hrs of sleep/day now then it's quite likely OT. A lot of people suggest earlier bedtimes to catch up and reduce EW so if it's at all possible maybe try that (on a weekend if not possibel on a week night) Also if bath time makes it harder to get to bed in time, we sometimes skip it and do a morning bath/shower instead. Maybe that could work? My DD doesn't seem tired either usually, only if extremely tired and way beyond OT, so not even if OT then she just seems wound up like your LO.
Hunger could be an issue if he doesn't eat much at daycare. We've also had that issue and I've wonderend if that could be the cause of some EW? Who knows?
Let me know how you're getting on though hun! xxxxxxxx Vick
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Thanks so much for your responses ;D. My gut feel is OT and especially since he has always needed a lot of sleep... It is really difficult to get him to bed early through the week, but maybe I need to slow our weekends down a little and allow him to catch up sleep. We've been looking at houses to buy for the last few weekends and of course, this has totally interferred with naps ::)
Good thinking on the comfort of the milk too ;). Although he does settle pretty quickly without it, but as he has always just adjusted to most things so easily, I think I just stopped doing it, then didn't think any more about it :-[. How naughty of me - I thought my baby brain was disappearing, but maybe not... OH and I have noticed that DS is getting naughtier and naughtier lately, which is very out of character for him, so maybe his OT is spiraling out of control? Last night he was so OT, but completely hyper and being very naughty and he bit his sister on the toe :o, so it was straight to bed for him at 6.30pm - he screamed for about a minute and must of passed out and we didn't hear from him again until 6am this morning.
Vick, sorry to hear you are going through the same thing. Big hugs to you. It is hard. How is your dd coping with daycare? It really is a lot of stimulation for them. My two really love it though, which makes me feel a little better about leaving them there 5 days a week.
I think I'll start aiming for an earlier bedtime (even if it is by 15 mins each night) and quieter, catchup on sleep, weekends and we'll see how we go. I hope your LO's both do well at daycare and we can all break the OT cycle. I'll let you know how we get on. Thanks again :-*
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Second the OT... hyped up in the evening pretty much always means OT around here.
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Well, we put DS to bed last night at 6.30pm, he wasn't happy, but think he only cried for a few minutes, then he was out. It is now 6.20am and after a waking at 5.30am (DH covered him back up with the blankets, so he was probably cold), he is still sleeping ;D. He hasn't slept pass 6am for at least a week now, if not longer...
It is funny how hindsight is so 20/20. Just looking back on his behaviour, particularly over the last 4 or so days, I should have known that it was definitely OT. He is normally such a good, well behaved child (angel/textbook) and he has just been quite naughty lately and getting worse. I knew he wasn't getting enough sleep, but sometimes these things don't sink in with me until we are well into it ::). Too much going on now that I am back at work full-time....
Anyway, enough of poor me - but I'll continue to keep trying to get him to bed and asleep as close to 7pm as possible through the week, then hopefully if I give him a chance, he will start taking the long naps on weekends again to catch up.
Vick, how has your dd been going lately?
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oh this is all so familiar. I think you answered my thread...... my ds too is 23 months and will be 2 on the 24th. He started daycare on sept 2nd and too used to sleep 1.5-2hrs at home, at daycare i get 45-1hr max. I too have been doing the bedtimes of 7pm when he doesn't get over 1hr nap and it is hard some nights to get home adn cook dinner and put him to bed. I have had to skip baths quite often, giving him a quick wipe down in the am instead.... today he had a wonderful 2hr nap till 3:15 so bed will be between 8-8:30! yah..... only to see what happens 2 morrow.... i do find he doesn't eat or drink enough either at daycare and gets very naughty once we get home! he always starving and so thirsty!!!! plus OT! i am truing not to go past 6hr A time ever and try to do 5.5 but it doesn't always happen depening on what time he wakes at daycare.... yesterday unfornately he only had a 45 min nap in the car ( we were far away from home) and was up by 12:30 b/c he woke up at 5:45 am!!!! i put him to bed at 7 and he was sleeping for 7:20 but the good thing was he didn't wake early like i thought and slept till 6:30..... they always surprise you, when i prepare for a EW he sleeps normal even though he had a huge A time and was OT????
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Hi Lin - yes I did answer your thread too. I know exactly what you mean ::). I think I could have written just what you wrote!
My ds also comes home starving and very thirsty too. He was asking for water on the way home from daycare today ::). I also think some of his naughtiness in the evenings has been due to being so hungry. DH gets so mad at him because some nights he just whinges until we give him dinner (which we obviously try to do as soon as we get in the door, but it takes a few minutes), but I have to remind DH that he is only little and he is just soooo hungry that he can't help it. We'd probably whinge that much too if we were starving but couldn't get our own food.
Anyway, I hope your week goes okay. I am going to have to make a big effort to keep our next few weekends very quiet so he can catch up on his sleep. Tonight I also made sure he was down in bed and had finished reading just after 7pm, then of course, he was still awake at around 7.20pm or so ::). We'll see what time he wakes up tomorrow morning now :-\.
Let us know how you get on through the week.
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will do! mine had a great nap yesterday 2hrs, so i figured that bedtime was between 8-8:30. SO at 8pm we started to read storiesd and he was in bed by 8:15, sleeping at 8:20. I guess i should of made sure he was in bed for 8pm as he woke at 5:50 this am!!!! I guess OT???? see and yesterday i was up 6.5hrs A time and he slept from 7:20-6:30??? go figure, i can never figure it out! :(
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They just like to keep us on our toes! My dd was awake at 5.20 this morning - but not up because I'm really mean and wouldn't let her get up until 6.55! - so I am looking forward to her being in bed before 6.30! She has behaved appallingly all morning though - not sure how the afternoon is going to go.
Hope things are going well for you guys today.
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Hi again!
This all sound so familiar to our situation! The short naps at daycare, the hunger and the thirst! She often asked me for water as soon as we left after I picked her up so I asked them to make sure she had more water through the day and it's been a little better since.
DD only goes Tue, Thu and Fri, all long days 9-5ish, so at least she can catch up a bit on the days she's home. we've done some earlier bedtimes when it's seemed she was very OT but we are a bit careful as the early bedtimes used to backfire a lot with her. Works for most kids apparently but DD sleeps maximum 10/10.5 hrs at night (VERY rarely 11hrs if extremely tired) so it's hard as she'll wake after that time and then EWs get worse :-\
Hope this week will go well for you all!
Kerry, we are also looking at houses, seeing one today in an hr.
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i hear you about the early bedtime back firing too. my ds keeps me on my toes not knowing if a early bedtime is going to work or not as some days they do wonders and the next it back fires!!! this am he was up at 5:50am which was his 10.5 hrs max!!! he normally also does 10hrs at night. he used to do 2 day time adn 10 night time and all was good, now with only 1hr daytime adn 10 night, he lacking in the sleep dept! He once again only slept 1hr today and he went down earlier ar daycare and it made no difference!
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What about having something like cut up veg or fruit that he could eat in the car, I used to give my ds1 fruit,veg & 100% corn crackers to eat on the way home when he was about 13-21mo as we had a 1hour drive home from daycare & he was often hungry & tired, they generally had hot lunches & as it was over spring summer, I kind of thought we'd just not worry about dinner those nights. I still always have drink bottles in the car with us if we go anywhere more than 1/2hour, I get ratty very quickly when I'm thirsty so I recon it would be the same for children.
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good idea, but for me if i give him something then he won't eat at dinner time..... at all!!! and he already is a terrible eater! he would live off crackers if i let him! the juice box thing i think i will do though, good idea on that! :)
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See I don't actually worry if my boys eat healthy food at a non meal time & then don't eat dinner, I've actually found that until recently they eat worse at dinner etc if I try to make them wait for meals & are over-hungry, but I if offer them cut up fruit or veg peices when they say they are hungry & then they are less grumpy overall & eat it, try to get them to eat say veg at dinner when they are tired no go & we end up in a downward spiral. Kind of like if I skip a meal I look for junk to eat & you may find he wants to live off crackers because he is overhungry & they give him the blood sugar boost... I've found by the time my boys are saying they are hungry they are over hungry & pick the carb options... just a thought
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The 10 at night, 2 in day is what we had for a long time and it worked well, no OT and a happy girl most days. It's difficult when they only do 1hr or so in day but won't catch it up at night.
I also offer DD a snack sometimes on the way home although we only have a 10 min walk or 2 min in the car. Interesting thoughts about the 'over-hunger' and the carb options. Must think of that and see if that applies to my LO.
Today is DD's first day at daycare after we've gone back to a 'no dummy in the day' rule again after it went out the window when she started nursery. Hope she does ok without it and that she takes a looong nap with it ;D
How are things your end Kerrie?
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i agree with the over hungry bit, but ny ds won't eat veggies at all!!!! i keep trying and he won't even attempt to put on in his mouth. As for fruit he does it a lot of that already at all meals, i have to limit it to that only then as it's way too much fruit then. if idon't give him at meal time then he pretty much doesn't eat most time... :(
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try putting some veg (slightly cooked carrot sticks, red capsicum (peppers) in a container & offering in the car, you may be surprised... if not I did get told it is normal for 2yo not to like veg (my 2 are only just starting to eat them at 3 & 5) & at 2 substiting fruit for veg is ok & better than cookies & things like that.
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yes true. he used to love veggies until 14 months and then it all stopped! not even a new food since then will he eat adn the ones he used to love are diminishing!
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Katet, that is a good idea about the veggies. I keep a little container of plain crackers in DS daycare bag because my kids are there such long hours. It is also good for a bribe of getting him to sit in his car seat after he has been climbing all over the car while I'm strapping dd in :P I might try the veggies or fruit. He really loves fruit! He used to not eat his dinner if we gave him something to eat before hand, but these days, it doesn't matter - he will usually eat his dinner after a snack because he is soo hungry.
Vick, thanks for asking about how we are doing. I thought all was good and we were on track, but had a 6am wake up this morning after a 7.30pm bedtime last night ::). I can't really complain too much as there are others on this thread with much earlier wake up times - but dd woke up at 5.15am this morning instead too :o. I wonder if he didn't nap so well at daycare yesterday, they had rubbed it off the board by the time I picked him up. Today I noticed he had about an hour 15min nap and he went straight to sleep without complaining at just after 7pm (whereas last night he whinged for about 20 mins before he went to sleep), so we'll see what it is like tomorrow morning. I don't have to go to work so early tomorrow, so I am hoping the kids sleep in a bit to give them a chance to catchup :-\. That always usually backfires on me though ::).
How did you go with that house? We found 2 that we really like and are just trying to sort out a pre-approval on finance now so we can put an offer on one of them. I hope we don't lose both because there is no way I want to keep dragging the kids around every weekend to keep looking - I'm over it ;)
Clazzat - I don't think you are mean - I think it is good to not let them get out of bed too early!!! I do the same thing (unless they are screaming the house down of course), but DS is in a bed, so when he decides it is time to get up, he bangs on his door really LOUDLY until we come down and let him out ::)
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i don't think it's mean either, i do that with my ds. i never take him out of bed right when he wakes unless i wake him up,lol...
i tell you by the time i figure this kid out about his sleeping issues he will be a teenager!!!
yesterday he finally had a 1.5hr nap at daycare but he wasn't feeling good, ( getting a cold). so bed would be no later then 8pm. well at 7:30 i started to get him ready as i figured he could use the extra time as he was stuffy. so he was sleeping by 7:45 but he was up at 5:10!!!! i refused to get him up, told him twice to go back to bed but he never fell back to sleep! so now he is going to be super tired by nap time at daycare!!!!! where did i go wrong, should i had him sleeping by 7:30 still even though he had a 1.5 hr nap or should i ahve kept him up till his 6 hr A time at 8pm??? god i will never figure ot the OT/ UT thing......
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Lin, maybe unless he is actually OT, you should stick to his normal bedtime? I know when my DS gets sick, he usually takes a longer nap rather than sleeps more at night time. I don't usually put him down any earlier when he has a cold (except if he is really really sick and is falling asleep on us). I totally KWYM about not being able to figure out this OT/UT thing. It is so frustrating!
You know, when we finally do figure it out and they are a teenager - then we won't be able to get them OUT of bed ::)
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How did you go with that house? We found 2 that we really like and are just trying to sort out a pre-approval on finance now so we can put an offer on one of them. I hope we don't lose both because there is no way I want to keep dragging the kids around every weekend to keep looking - I'm over it ;)
We are in the exact same position, but only seen one house we like. We also need a pre-approval to be able to put an offer in, and IKWYM it's so frustrating having to wait and not knowing what's going to happen.
Fingers crossed for you you will know soon and get the place you want.
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so nap time was off today. he was actually behaved at daycare considering he was up at 5:10! he fell asleep at 12:30 but then woke up 10-15 min later they told me and they had to re rub him to sleep. Then he fell asleep but then only slept 45 min after that, so i assume he was really OT!!!! Of course since we have gotten home it's been non stop whining but he is more sick now as his nose is so runny, and he's so stuffy.
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Hi Lin, big hugs. His sleeping is probably a little off from OT and being sick. That is very frustrating. Can you use a vapouriser in his room at night? If he can breathe a little better, he might sleep longer???
Vick - I will keep my fingers crossed for you getting a house too. There is just so much work involved in buying houses!!!
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i;m actually going to keep him home today and hope he gets a good nap. he was up right at 6am today. Right after i call in sick to work then i am going to go to shoppers drug mart and get him some more cold medicine and buy a vaperizer too!