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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Evilmena on March 28, 2009, 17:32:34 pm
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I have an almost 15 month old that is still napping twice...if you can call it napping!
His night sleep is great, goes down anywhere from 6-7pm and wakes up the same time in the am. Rarely any wakeups, can self soothe, no props whatsoever. So what's the problem? His napping and A times have always been all over the place. Around the one year mark he needed to go down for his first nap after 1.5hrs. of being up (up to 3 hours for his second nap) and then he began talking in his crib for up to an hour so we extended the A time. Now he generally falls asleep within 20 minutes or so (he's silent for the first ten with his lovey, then chats for a bit before going quiet. But he only sleeps for 30 minutes - sometimes 20, sometimes 45 and there's no rhyme or reason to it. We would love to have two solid at least 1 hour naps, or 1 2hour or so nap but these two 30 min. naps are brutal. It doesn't seem to affect his nightsleep but it does at times affect his morning wakeup time. At times if he wakes at 6am he'll fuss and then chat for a bit and fall asleep for another 30min. until waking up for good.
Here's the general schedule:
7am wakeup
10am nap (will go in at 9:30am)
10:30am wake
1pm nap (will go in at 12:30pm) * I put him down earlier if the nap was only 30min. *
1:30pm wakeup
6pm sleep
He also goes down at night fairly quickly with no fuss. Could he really be okay on only 1 hour total nap time during the day? I've worked so hard to protect his sleep in the last year that I don't want it to be for nothing - sleep is really important to me. If this is okay then I guess we go with it?? He was doing two one hour naps consistently before this started. I just don't know what to do - extend the A times? Shorten naps if they are longer? They're never longer than 1 hour and 10min. HELP!!
I put him down today at 12:45pm and it's 1:30pm and he's still chatting!! Then he'll probably only sleep for another 30 minutes...ugggh.
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bumping up for you :)
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I think your A times are waaaaaay too short. You're only giving him 2.5 hours in the morning (and then he's chatting until 3 hours). At his age, he should be doing over 4 hours, perhaps as much as 5! Even a sleepy bub (and I've got one of those!) would be doing at *least* 3.5 hours. So definitely let's extend that A time, both before and after nap.
Since he's already extending himself by 30 minutes, why don't you go along with that! :) If he still chats for 20-30 minutes, then we'll extend 15 minutes every 2 days until he's falling asleep easily.
Now, at 15 months he's probably closing in on the 1 nap day. He should be getting 2-2.5 hours of daytime sleep. That's fabulous he's STTN, so it doesn't seem to be hurnting him much. But I have a feeling you will run into some personality issues in a few months if he doesn't get more sleep. 18 months is when the evil can come out of 'em, so we want him well rested to the naughties are kept under control! ;)
What we usually do as we approach 1 nap territory is limit the AM nap to 45 minutes max to ensure that a 1.5-2 hour nap is taken in the PM. When PM nap starts shortening to an hour or less then we shorten that AM nap to 30 minutes; as you increase A time, morning nap will move later in the day. Once AM nap is around 11:30 AM, you can usually jump to 1 nap at 12 pm. From then on you just work on keeping them happy on that 1 nap! :)
Make sense? What I'm saying is:
1) Increase A time. Try starting wind down at 10 am to start, and move 15 minutes every 2 days if nap continues to be short and/or he has difficulty falling asleep
2) Increase A time after nap as well, so that you go in at 1 pm; move by 15 minutes every 2 days if nap continues to be short and/or he has difficulty falling asleep.
The interesting thing is he *is* doing 4.5 hours after PM nap! So he can clearly handle it! I think you've probably got a textbook/angel guy who just shows sleepy signs at the usual A time so that you've just held him there long after it has outlived it's usefulness. You've kind of got him ont he schedule of a 6-7 month old! :o
Make sense?
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Thanks for the info, I know he's on a schedule that is for younger babes but when I came on here months ago because of short naps I was told that he might just need a shorter A time for the AM and seeing as he'd get increasingly fussy, I just played it by ear. I know he *should* be doing at least 4 hours and know that he can he's just always needed to sleep on a shorter AM A time - I also know this is probably what's causing our problems!
As for wind down - my kid doesn't do wind downs...I wish he did, sigh. But then again, we're not doing crazy stimulating either all the time. Maybe the trick is to get him out of the house in that morning A time (as stimulus) and then coming back and that will be a sort of wind down, and keep it low key? Trust me - he's not angel/textbook! ; ) He's actually more spirited/textbook. He will not sit still...EVER! Not cuddly or patient either!
So if I start wind down at 10am and every 2 days increase A time by 15 minutes, how is going in at 1pm a long enough A time? Say for example he'll sleep 30 minutes at 10am - that means his next A time is 2.5 - maybe 3 hours until his next nap? Is that right? I really want to extend the A time so that I can get him to 1 nap, I definitely think he's ready for it - the short naps are telling me that's the case. He's also been really ill the past week so now that he's on the mend I'll work on the extending - he was sleeping a lot more because of the bug he caught. And then when his 1st nap ends up at 11:30am I can just eliminate the 2nd? I'm just a bit confused if I'm increasing the first A, when and how far that will put the 2nd nap. Does this mean for a while his bedtimes will be later or the same?
Thank you so much for the advice, I kind of knew what I had to do but wasn't sure where to start. Praying so much for the one nap so that he can rest and my mom can have a semblance of a routine too! And sorry if it's all over the place, guess I'm pretty spirited too! ;)
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OK, let's work on this!
First off, wind downs. When you say he doesn't 'do' wind downs, I suspect you mean something like cuddling in the rocker. That's OK -- a wind down doesn't have to be snuggly and quiet. A wind down is really just a cue to your child that a sleep period is coming. At our house? Wind down starts with jumping off the couch 5 times and then daddy throwing LO in the air 5 times. ;D That's what floats my kids boat, but it is HIS signal that a sleep period is coming. He calms down IMMENSELY after those jumps because we've done it long enough that he knows here comes a sleep period!
Really, just make sure you have some kind of ritual before sleep -- some way of saying 'play time is over. let's get relaxed and ready for sleep.' That may mean you walk around the house and say 'night-night' to familiar/favorite objects. It may mean you look out the window and tell the world night-night. It may mean you just sing a couple of songs while walking, jumping, etc. Whatever. If he doesn't want to sit in your lap for a story, that's OK! Let him roam around the room while you sit and read. Don't worry, he's listening! And if he's not into cuddling you might make sure that the last story you read is ALWAYS the same one and ALWAYS is one that talks about going to sleep. We don't need his body to be still, we just need him to shift gears. Spirited children especially really need those markers to help them shift gears. They are always on GO so it is important to give them plenty of time to know that they are changing direction. Make sense?
If you're spirited too it may be hard for you to institute a ritual before sleep periods. The spirited adults I know tend to be pretty spontaneous and not too fond of being bound to any sort of a routine. But let me tell you, having a sleep ritual is essential for children. They can't tell time, so it's the only way they have to predict what comes next. Even fly-by-your-seat Spirited kids feel insecure in a world where they have no clue what's happening next! So coming up with a wind down ritual that works for your kid can be very very helpful! And you'll be surprised at how LO will visibly relax when you start the ritual after you do it for a month or so. It's really amazing; a good ritual can do 50% or more of the work necessary to get a child to sleep!
Now for nap timing: it's very possible you needed to shorten A time to get out of an OT sleep cycle. That's my favorite solution for sure! But once he got out of the OT cycle he may have been ready to stretch again, plus LOs this age increase A time about every 4-6 weeks. So enough time may have passed that it's time to increase. But let's do it slowly so you don't get into another OT cycle.
The reason that I kept your nap at 1 pm initially is because I'm gonig on the assumption you're still going to get a short nap. With only 30 minutes of sleep under his belt, he's just not going to be able to handle a full 4 hours. Try 3 hours first. If that doesn't work, increase the space between the 2 naps until you get to where that PM nap is a nice length.
What typically happens during the 2-1 switch is that AM nap is kept short (30-45 minutes) in order to preserve the length of the PM nap; at this age, they can really start to lose the ability to sleep in the PM if they sleep more than 45 minutes in the morning. So, you end up with a consistently short AM nap. That means they just aren't going to be able to handle really long A times so the PM nap doesn't change too much in timing -- maybe it will shift by 30-60 minutes or so. Yes, bedtime may become later briefly, but then once you go to 1 nap consistently bedtime will become earlier. You're probably going to see your bedtime move around a bit over the next 6 months, and then it will stay in one place for 6-12 months.
the main thing to remember during the 2-1 switch is to honor your child's A time. IN other words, don't worry about the clock -- just pay attention to what A time works for your kid and make sure that is how you time naps and bedtiem. That will be your best insurance against OT.
Does this help?
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Thank you, it does help for sure.
I do have a ritual - it's actually more words than anything else so he knows when it's time to sleep. Same for night time - we do say good night to pictures in his room and I tell him we're going to see Teddy Bear (his lovey) and ask him to point to where he is as we're going up the stairs. So I think those are his cues I guess I just never associated it with a 'wind down' because my child isn't the cuddle wind down type.
We are in the process of stretching his A times - my mom is at home with him so I'm telling her when to put him down. He's been going down relatively quickly lately and sleeping about 45 min. for both naps it seems or one of them is 1/2 hour. Also, his second A time ia at times 2.5 hours, but I'm pushing mom to do 3 hours because I know he can handle it. So when we get to 11am (we're currently at 10/10:30am depending on when he wakes) do we do that for a couple of days and then just JUMP to 12pm or continue to stretch?? He's been pretty good at bedtime as well although that was never really an issue.
Thanks again for your help!
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I'd probably just continue to stretch slowly. If you decide to try a jump, you certainly can! But don't be frustrated if it doesn't work. I've jumped my son as much as an hour before and it went OK. You know your child's temperment/sleep personality best.
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I'll continue to stretch. I've also been trying not to put him to bed a little later (around 7pm - I know, but that's later for him!) as his pm nap occurs later in the day. Today he awoke at 6:45am so I told mom to put him down at 9:30am (our first day at the additional 15 minute stretch). She said it took him 1/2 hour to go down and then he slept for 1/2 hour. Very strange - was it too early? But he hasn't gone longer in ages. Then I told her to put him down 3 hours later (he had already done it yesterday with no problems). He slept for 20 minutes...perhaps it was too long an A time due to the 30 min. nap? I know I won't see instant results it just feels like we've been playing this 30min. game for ever now! I truly do hope when it goes to just one nap he will actually sleep longer than 1 hour...heck even longer than 1/2 hour! lol
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Yes, 9:30 was probably way too early. He should be able to last a good 4 hours at this age. So, if 6:45 was when he woke he probably wouldn't have been ready for nap until 10:45 (wind down at 10:30).
2nd nap, yes probably extra tired due to 30 minute nap. Concentrate for now on getting that first nap timed right and then I think the rest will fall into place.
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Well, the first nap we put him down at 2hours 45min. because we're in the process of stretching out slowly...he was doing 2.5 hours A time before so we're working from that. I'll be home for the holiday for the next few days so I'm hoping to go to 3 and 3.25 hours. I know he should be able to do the 4 hours at his age...but I fear making the jump and then getting stuck in a nasty OT cycle. Is this the method I should follow? Last night he went to bed at 5:45pm (due to the OT and short naps) and woke up at 6:45am (not too bad considering) then was silent until 7:15am when he started to talk again. Hopefully we can resolve this soon! As for his naps, I think he may have done 45 min. or so for morning and then she put him down 3 hours later and said he slept for 30min. then talked for another 30min? and then was quiet for another 15min. or so who knows - wish I had a video monitor!
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Heck yes, that's an awesome 13 hour night! Can't expect much more than that!! As you get him stretched during the day, that bedtime will begin to be a more reasonable time and then you'll get post 7 am wake-ups.
Continue stretching slowly. It will come! I think you're right to not push too hard -- once you're in an OT cycle, it's hard to break.
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Thanks!
So he was in bed at about 7pm last night...might have been a touch late due to his daytime sleep so he awoke at 6:15am...I must say he's been waking earlier though!
So I left him there until just after 7am and then put him back down at almost 9:30am...he went down almost instantly and he's still sleeping!! It's almost 11am so I think I'll have to wake him. He cried out briefly about 1/2 hour ago but he fell back asleep. I think this nap shouldn't be longer than 45 min. usually to protect the pm nap - is that right? I felt a little bad though as I do think he's gotten a bit OT the last couple of days. So here's evidence he did 3 hours of A time and slept longer...strange how it works huh? If I put him down sooner he probably would have done 1/2 hour...is that also a sign of UT (I usually associate it with OT). Thanks for the encouragement!
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Yes, 30 minutes can be an UT nap. Definitely at this age 2.5 hours of A time is WAY too short.
We shorten AM nap to preserve PM nap, but if dude is tired, it may not be necessary. The only way you'll know is if you give him a long AM nap and find out that he refuses PM nap. Then you'll know to shorten AM nap a bit. But every kid is diff, so it's important to experiment a bit even if it means you'll get some whacked out days here and there!
At 15 months, even 3hours is a pretty short A time! Esp. after a lovely 11-11.5 hour sleep the night before! Like I said, as you stretch his A time during the day, that bedtime will get pushed later a bit which will give you later mornings again.
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So I woke him after 1.5 hours of the AM nap and he was none too happy at first. Then we had family over so major stimulation and I tried to put him down 3 hours later and no go - he was quiet but I doubt he slept. I put him back in his room about an hour later again quiet but no sleep. So now he's in bed at 7pm. I wonder if I'd let him sleep longer in the AM if he would have gone down in the PM - I'll never know, also because of the stimulation.
That's right, longer AM nap is okay if child does it that way, that nap just eventually gets pushed to the middle if they don't drop that one on their own right?
We'll see how tonight goes. And I'll continue the stretching for the rest of the weekend!
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Yeah, sounds like that day wasn't a good one for data collecting! ;D So, more experimentation necessary.
I would just let him sleep in the AM and see what happens. And for the future, shortening to 1.5 hours isn't enough shortening. We typically start at an hour, and then move to less from there (45, 30, 20, etc.). So, start off with a full morning nap and see how he does in the PM. Then, if he's refusing PM nap you'll limit to 1 hour in the AM and see how he does, and continue to shorten AM nap if nec. You sound like you ahve a sleepy guy since he was on such short A times, so I have a feeling he'll be OK with a full AM and PM nap. at least for another week or two! ;)
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So yesterday he woke up at 6:45am then I put him down at 10am and he slept for 30min. PM I put him down at almost 2pm and he slept for 40 min.
I put him to bed at 7pm and he chatted very quietly on and off for about 40 min. and then he was definitely out. He woke up at 7:45am this morning! ;D
So I put him down for his 1st nap at 11am and I haven't head a peep. It's already been over 1.5hours. I'm going to leave him this time and see how long he sleeps. Can't believe we're already at over 3 hours A time and the nap is at 11am (when he wakes later anyway). I'm ashamed that I've been such a sleep guru for him and yet didn't stretch him as I should have. Correction - I did but when he got OT we got caught in this vicious cycle and then I didn't stick to it.
We'll see what he does this PM, then I'll definitely need some guidance on where to go...so are you suggesting to keep the two naps for a bit since he's new to these A times? You are my guru!
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So his AM nap was 2 hours and 10 min. Then I tried to put him down at 4pm and no go...he didn't fight it at all, in fact he was very quiet so if he did actually sleep I'd say it wasn't more than 20 minutes, I tend to think it was actually more quiet time than anything else. I just put him down for the night at 7pm...I guess he could/should have gone down sooner since he was up at 1pm but he was actually quite happy. In fact, I must say over this past weekend he's been a dream except when he's been way OS with his cousins around. Let's say he should have been a bear or at least visibly tired/cranky today having been up for 6hours in the PMbut he was unusually not. I know that if this were the norm he might be but for today he seemed to bear with it. Bit off topic there!
So, I guess tomorrow I'll have my mom continue the AM awake time at 3.25h or 3.5h and see what happens. He can obviously nap long (he's tended to always be a great morning sleeper in hindsight). So should I just keep the morning nap long as I stretch it to occur at a later time like 12pm'ish? If he's sleeping 2 hours is 5hours A time in the PM okay? He's done it for quite some time and his night sleep is great...or should I move bedtime up? He can do the early bedtime as well it seems but if the later bedtime means later wakeups maybe better? Or should I put the PM nap later to like 1pm? I guess it depends on when he wakes...with 1 nap at his age what is the average A time for them?
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Wow! What progress!
If your LO can handle the 1 nap and a long A time in the PM, then I say go for it! You're there and have made the 2-1 nap transition! Yippeee!!! And, it sounds like we even still have some stretching we could do -- another 30-60 minutes? So, that would move nap to around noon which is perfect!
If his night sleep is OK with a 7 pm bedtime, keep it there. If you start getting night crazies, then move bedtime earlier and see how that goes. But honestly, I think you've got one of those lovely children who make the transition with little to no bloodshed! ;D If things start to fall apart, let me know, and then we'll take a 2nd look at everything.
congratulations! I think you've just made the last nap change! Now it's 1 nap from here until there's no nap anymore. WTG!
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Okay, so 3 days have past and things have changed a bit - looks like we're not into the 1 nap free and clear yet...which I've heard is possible in this 2 to 1 switch - that some days are two nap days?
Anyhow, here's how they breakdown:
Day 1 Day 2 Today
W 7:45am W 7:15am W 7:05am
S 11am-1pm S 11am-12pm S 11am-12pm
S 4-4:30pm (1/2 or 1h) S 3pm-4pm
S 7:30pm S 7pm
So, we'll see how this afternoon goes, I suspect he'll sleep 1/2-1hour. So what's the problem? We've stretched him to 4 hours for a few days...maybe I sat on it too long? Could the extra 15 minutes make that kind of a difference? It's also difficult convincing my mom that although he seems tired at 10:30am she has to wait until 11am - I don't get how she doesn't relate the new found sleep to the stretching!!! >:(
Tomorrow I'll get her to try for 4.25 A time after waking and see if that makes a difference.
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;D Some people are slow to tweak to the sleeping thing. ;D
Yes, absolutely during the 2-1 switch you can absolutely get some 2 nap days, some 1. He somes comfortable where you are now -- he's getting adequate daytime sleep AND he's STTN a good amt. I wouldn't worry about it. IN another week or two you'll probably be able to stretch his A time again (and you wn't be getting that yawning at 10:30 anymore! ;) ), and then you'll be closer to a noon schedule, and that's where 1 nap typically starts.
Let's leave him here for a bit until things go wonky again. I hesitate to have you stretch him all the way until noon b/c that could backfire either with short nap or NWs/EWs.
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So he did sleep an hour for the second nap yesterday. Then I put him to bed at 7:30pm and this morning he awoke at 6:55am. Yikes!
I have my mom keeping him at around 4 hours A time so she said he was tired and fumbly (when he walks) between 10-10:30am so I told her to put him to bed at 10:45am this morning, don't know how long it took him to fall asleep but before 12:30pm he was up and she said he was whiny and pooped - sorry TMI, this kid poops and eats a LOT! I told her to try again at 2-2:30pm since he slept so little. Guess it will be an earlier bedtime tonight.
I'll keep the A time at 4hour as per your suggestion and see what happens.
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Update, she put him down before 2pm and he slept 1.5 hrs...guess he was tired!! He's never done that where he slept 1/2 hour and then had a longer afternoon nap. Perhaps teething combined with new schedule, who knows. At least he got some rest.
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That's actually what we look for at 15 months: 30-45 minute AM nap and long (1.5 hour) PM nap! If you can keep routine there, that would be GREAT! In fact, if mom wants to put him down at 10:30 when he's sleepy and wake at 11, and then do 2nd nap at 2 and let sleep as long as he wants that would be PERFECT! Then, as he stretches he will move that AM nap later and later -- once it'sat 11:30, we jump to 1 nap.
So, looks like he's going to do the 'normal' 2-1 switch afterall! That's cool! I think he's doing phenominally well. You got an 11.5 hour night! That's fantastic!
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Have you gone back to read your initial post? you guys are doing GREAT! You now have him on the 'typical' routine for 15 month olds instead of the 5-8 month old routine he was on! ;D WTG!!!!
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Thanks so much!! It was all your help so thank you!!
Okay, well I'll 'try' to get her to do that but she's so of the ilk of not waking a sleeping baby. At least the weekend is here though and I can do it myself. Thing is, he's done the 1/2 hour nap in the AM before and still slept crappy in the afternoon...or is it that the 1/2 hour is occuring after 4 hours that makes the difference?
So the first few days when he was sleeping a couple of hours for the AM nap, was that because of the stretching and him catching up? And therefore now is doing the 'typical' routine? This sleep stuff is so confusing! lol
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THANK YOU SO MUCH BOTH OF YOU! (and so articulate too - you must be american!)
I have had the EXACT same issues this week with my 14months DS and I have read every word in this string and will do the same. He has just started taking a good 20-40mins of chatting and singing and rasberry blowing and crying sometimes so I know we need to cut down on the daytime naps. Like you say - he's got a 9month old routine - and I realise its me holding him back as it suits me more. So I have ticked myself off and will try to put him down about 10.30 for a 10.45 sleep.
My worry is that he has 2 classes at 11am in the week and not sure how to structure sleep around them.. can you suggest anything?
THANKS AGAIN
Tulip (London!)
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Aw, Tulip! Glad to know we're helping vicariously! ;D That's what BW is all about!
First, as you make LOs nap later, you may want to take it a bit slow -- no more than a 30 minute stretch at a time and you may even want to go 15 minutes, depending on temperment. For the class problem, I'd just put him down for nap earlier so that when you wake after 30 minutes it's just in time for leaving for class. I don't know how long it takes you to go to your class, but maybe 10 am nap, wake at 10:30 and then time to get him to class. My bub sort of hates being rushed right out the door so we'd probably either do a 9:45 nap, waking at 10:15 OR if 9:45 is too early, we'd do 10 waking at 10:20. At this age a 20 min nap can be enough to help them make it. If you do a 20 min nap make A time a bit shorter, esp. since you're doing an activity with him -- so maybe only 2.5-3 hours between naps.
Evilmena: It's hard to say why that nap is short. I have a feeling it's the longer A time that's doing it. He may be a bit overstretched, but for our purposes we don't care! :) He may start wanting to nap longer in AM, and that's when we cut it short on purpose so that we can get him ready for the 2-1 nap switch. At this age, if they nap too long in AM they'll often skip PM nap which can make him OT by bedtime and give you NWs/EWs etc. (as you probably know!).
Let's just see what happens at moms house before really giving her the business. ;) If he naps long in the morning and refuses a PM nap, then you can explain to her that too much sleep in the AM makes him unable to rest PM and it's really ruining nights and mornigns for you. But he may limit morning nap on his own. Mine never did -- I always had to wake him up myself. And I protested, just like your mama is, but the BW mods really encouraged me and it made all the difference in the world during our 2-1 switch.
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Tulip - glad we could be of service...but really all I'm 'serving' as is a bad example! haha Oh, and I'm actually Canadian! ;D
Becky, thanks again for the suggestions. The wakings are getting earlier (in 5 min. increments it seems) so here's today so far:
Last night S 7:15pm
W 6:45am
S 10:30am
W 11:30am (45min-1hour)
I've told her to put him down at 3pm'ish for his second.
I'm wondering also if the EW's are a result of me putting him to bed later - remember he was on average going to bed at 6:30pm, 7pm the latest and lately I'm been putting him down later than that due to the later nap - thing is I haven't tried the still earlier bedtime to know whether he would fight it - I honestly don't think he would as he didn't before.
So for this weekend then when I'm in charge ( ;)) should I wake him after 1/2 hour in the AM if it looks like he's going to sleep more? And then do what, a shortened A time - by how much? Oh, he HATES being woken up but I'll do it if it's what's going to make this work!
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Yeah, my guy hates to be woken too. He got used to it after a bit. And it's probably only for about a month and hopefully by then A time will have stretched so that 1 nap is in the offing.
Um, I think let's wake after 45 min for that AM nap. That's 1 sleep cycle and may be less likely to mess him up emotionally. ;) Then, 3 hours later offer PM nap and see what happens. Prepare for some failure as we figure out the 'magic' formula. More than one mother has had an emotional breakdown while going thru the 2-1 switch, so don't think you'll escape unscarred! ;D
Yes, try earlier bedtime and see if that helps things if EWs are starting to happen. But not sure if an 11.5 hour night constitutes an EW! This may just be where his toddler self is comfortable. We expect around 11.5 hour nights at this age, and 2-2.5 hours daytime sleep. That's about what he's doing!
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I'm back with an update!
Well, the weekend went pretty well, but this week so far he's had two consecutive days, maybe three now where he'll sleep his morning nap (4 hours of A time) and sleep for an hour and then fight the pm nap - meaning none. So I've been putting him to bed at 6:30pm both nights. Last night he awoke crying about 45 minutes later (but I did have the garage door to the house open when his dad was pulling in so I can't be certain if it was that or just a waking). So, what should I do? Mom said that he awoke at 12pm and so I had told her to put him down at 4pm'ish but no go. She said he had already been rubbing his eyes from 2:30pm...should I have had her put him down at 3pm?
Should I go back to stretching the morning because he's been fighting the afternoon thing now for a while. I honestly don't think he'll drop the morning one and I know she won't wake him (although he's only sleeping an hour anyway), so should I just push it back until it ends up at noon??
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In order to get the PM nap she's going to HAVE to shorten the nap. Ask her to just try it for 3 days! If it doesn't work, she can do what she wants. But shorten to 45 minutes -- and maybe 30 min-- and voila, a PM nap should be back. 3 hours between naps is pretty standard when you're working with a 30 min AM nap.
This is all VERY normal and common during 2-1 transition. So trust me on shortening the nap! Bribe your mom with baked goods to just try it on a short-term basis! Maybe a food rub will get the job done? That always works with my mom! ;)
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I'll do my best but she's been following my lead and then he goes and doesn't nap so now she says she's going to do it her way...yet she doesn't notice that when I did intervene and stretch him he was starting to sleep longer than 30min. in like forever!!
So he woke up at 6:45 am (went to bed at 6:30pm last night) and I told her to put him down at 10:30am...she put him down at 10am and he woke up at 11am. Now she's going to try at 2 or 3pm, we'll see what happens. I honestly don't think she'll wake him, as much as I ask, she won't do it. I'll have to do it on the weekend when I'm home and make it stick hopefully.
So if we shorten to 30min. that *should* make a 2nd nap happen and is it expected to be longer? And the A time is 3 hours in between as you said. So what happens from there, do we continue to shorten that 1st nap or done in conjunction with stretching it will just fade out?
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So, again he fought the afternoon nap and tonight woke up after 40 minutes of sleep crying and freaking and wouldn't calm down until I put on Bob the Builder! lol He did this on Monday too (wakeup). Whenever he does this he won't settle so I have to take him out the room and distract him but still quietly, and after about 15-20 minutes I put him back down. He cries for a few seconds then passes out. Could these be linked to the no nap in the PM? He also wouldn't eat much dinner (other than fruit) so in order to try again later he didn't actually get to bed until 7pm - so he'd been up since 11am I guess? I told my mom next time don't bother, he eats what he eats just put him to bed early. I've also told her she's going to have to wake him after 30/45 minutes. She's convinced she should be putting him down sooner?? I think she may listen to me about the wakeup though, we'll see what happens.
How could we go from several glorious days of a long nap to this?? I know, no one gets out of the 2 to 1 switch unscathed...I was hoping though! :P
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Update - he woke up at 6:30am this morning and fell back asleep as I didn't hear him and I heard him again at 7:15am. My mom put him down at 10:45am as he was tired and actually woke him up before 11:30am...she didn't want to go in his room to do it as he gets frightened but instead she ran the vacuum upstairs - he still woke up crying but I imagine it was a little less scary.
So I've told her to put him back at 2:30pm to see what happens.
Does this seem right? That gives him 3 hours of A time before the PM nap. What's next?? ???
Update: She put him down at 2:30pm he was quiet for 1/2 hour then he chatted for a bit and then he seemed quiet for another half hour. Ugh, I really wish I was home to handle this. So at least he slept this time, just not for very long.
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So he had a 45 min AM nap? if he has 45 minutes you might try 3.5 hours A time and see what happens.
Yes, the waking in the night is because no Pm nap and OT. I'd be careful about showing him a vid when he wakes like that as he'll start making it a habit; plus, an exposure to videos like that can more fully wake him than you'd like. YOu can absolutely take him out of the room to calm him, but I'd probably just take him into another darkened room. I've had an inconsolable son too, so understand if a lighted room is all he wants. I'd just be really cautious about giving him TOO much fun when that happens! :)
Yes, limiting AM nap should bring PM nap back and we expect it to be 1.5-2 hours in length.
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Okay, we'll keep trying the limiting of the AM nap and see what happens. And I'll tell her to extend his A time as well.
Of course he woke up screaming again after 45 minutes of putting him to bed. I took him out and he was calmed a lot better this time and 10 minutes later I brought him back in and he's out. I only tried Bob the Builder yesterday because NOTHING would calm him which is quite rare. I also knew the longer it took to calm him, the longer it would take to put him back down. But I do agree I don't want it to become habit forming. And funny I was just thinking to myself last week how awesome it's been that he hasn't awaken like that in a long time and then boom! 3 times since Monday and it's Thursday night.
So he cried again in the middle of the night and as I lay still hoping beyond hope that he would stop he did after a few minutes. I heard him briefly at 6:15am and then he didn't wake until 7:50am. So I told mom to put him to bed close to noon unless he looked really tired upon which she is to call me to make the decision. Maybe this will be a 1 nap day...and a good long 1 nap day, one can only hope!
Another update: she put him to bed at 11:30am saying he seemed tired before then - my niece is also over so he has a playmate - and he woke up 30 minutes later....oy. Okay, so now I told her to put him down at 3 or 3:30pm...we'll see what happens.
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Ah dear. The trying for 1 and getting a 30 minute nap happens a lot during this stupid 2-1 transition. I hope he takes the 2nd nap! There's a good chance since he only slept 30 min. We'll keep our fingers crossed!
lOL, I've often thought my son could read my mind and you've proved it! All you have to do is *think* about how they don't do a certain thing anymore and BAM! They do it! ::) They're tricky little buggers!
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So she put him down at 3:30pm and he slept for *maybe* 30 minutes...then I put him down for the night before 7:30pm and he chatted quietly on and off for about an hour. Then he was out and he awoke at 6:30am this morning and chatted to himself until I went in there after 7am.
He had his first nap at 10:30 and woke up at 11am exactly.
I just don't get this...I changed his schedule and he had literally a couple of good days of sleep that he hasn't had in months but since then it seems everything's gotten worse - he's getting up earlier and earlier, his naps are getting even worse than they were before - which I didn't think was possible - and he's waking after being put down...is this all normal?? I kinda preferred him on his 6-7 month schedule. :-[
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Since he only took a 30 min nap, put him down for 2nd nap after 3 hours. We WANT him to have a 30 min AM nap! Don't fret about that!! Now let's see what he does in the PM. We pretty much knew yesterday that PM nap was a crap shoot, so that doesn't surprise me. And the chatting for an hour/waking early is because he's so severely OT from lack of daytime sleep. No surprise there either!
What we need to do is get consistent about short AM nap and 3 hours later trying for longer PM nap. If we can get in that groove, nights/EWs will improve. He's 15 months, so we're going to be in the 1 nap zone really soon and that's also pretty up/down. Believe me, you're not the only parent who hates this stage! It is AWFUL! We had terrible NWs for about 2 months while my son was transitioning -- either he didn't get enough sleep during the day, or too much, and it was frustrating! But in another month or so you guys will be firmly in 1 nap land and things just get better from there. Remember, this is only temporary. :-*
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Thanks again for the tips...so I put him down at 1:50pm and he was pretty quiet for about 10 minutes then he started chatting and didn't fall quiet again until 2:45...it's 3:15pm now and he's still sleeping so we'll see how long this goes. Does this mean he wasn't tired yet? It's funny though, because when I give him the cues "it's time for baby naps" he starts to whimper but instantly he starts rubbing his eyes and ears! haha
Strange thing also is that if I had put him down later he might not have slept at all...maybe he just needed that quiet wind down time? Why is this so difficult...why do some people have children who just know how to sleep, who don't follow a schedule, who've never done 30 minute naps whether they're UT, OT or whatever. All children are not created equal...this just makes me hope that my reward for this spirited one is an angel one next! :P
Update: so he cried out at the 40 minute mark and then promptly fell back asleep and woke up after a total 1 hour and 15 minute nap.
So??
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No wakeups last night - yay!! And he woke up at 8am today (nice for mommy and daddy!) so I figured it might be a one nap day...I put him down just before noon and less than an hour later he's awake! I probably should have given him lunch before the nap but we were out so he was snacking instead - that *may* have allowed him to sleep longer but who knows.
So now do I even bother trying again? I can't very well put him down at 5pm right? Should I just try an early bedtime instead?
Update: I skipped a late nap and instead I've put him to bed at just after 6pm...well, he woke up crying about 40 minutes later, a few minutes to soothe out of the room and he's out for the night. We'll see how early he wakes.
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Hope the night went OK! I think you put him down too early. I probably wouldn't have put him down for a nap until around 1 with an 8 am waking.
I know it's frustrating -- I hear about those kids who never take 30 min naps too. Honestly? I think it's a myth. Sure there are some kids who sleep well no matter what. But they are RARE! I think more often mommies exaggerate how well their kids sleep. ;D
You guys are getting so close to the 1 nap day! Just expect things to be uneven for awhile -- some success days and some failure days. That's normal and natural! But as the days/weeks progress your successes will outnumber your failures at a greater rate.
P.S. I think you did the right thing going for early bedtime instead of late catnap, which he probably wouldn't have taken anyway! ;D
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Really, so you would have put him down at 1pm? That would be 5 hours awake time...guess I can try it if it happens again.
He didn't wake again last night...it's the weirdest thing but he will only ever wake up once and it's usually within 30min - 1 hour of going to bed. And then he's soothed within 10-15 min. and out for the night.
He awoke at 7:15/7:30am and mom put him down at 11am and he slept just over an hour. Maybe it's time to extend again? Should I try for 4.25 or 4.50 A time?
He's getting really close to that noon time!!! Now if he would just nap an extra hour!!
She put him down for his 2nd nap at 3:45pm and he slept for 45 min.
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Boy, you guys are getting close!
Try 4h15 first. Better to go slow. And I'd leave him there for 2-3 days before trying to extend again. You guys are REALLY close to 1 nap nirvana! Also, it can take a week or more for them to take longer than an hour nap once you *do* move to 1 nap. As you can imagine, their body expects a 2nd nap since that's what they've had their whole little life! So it takes adjustment time. I was so scared my guy would never sleep more than 1h/1h10! But sure enough after a week he started sleeping 1.5, and then another month after that we started getting 2h (I think he just needed some more time to grow into his A time). Now at age 3 it isn't uncommon for him to sleep 2.5 or even 3h! So it *does* get better.
Yes, I would have stretched him because he woke so late a 2nd nap was going to be impossible. So, better to make that one and only nap as late as possible just in case he short-napped because then bedtime isn't TOO far away.
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Okay, so he didn't wake last night - I can usually tell by the day if he will and he seemed fine but he did talk on and off again. He awoke at 7:15am and mom put him down at 10:30am...I had told her to put him down at 11:30am but he was pretty quiet and subdued today and due to the weather (raining) she didn't feel she could stretch him and he seemed really tired so he slept 1.5 hours. Hmm..bet if he had gone down at 11:30am he woulnd't have slept that long! The science in this confuses me! haha
I told her to try again at 3:30am the earliest, more like 4pm if he naps at all, otherwise earlier bedtime. Maybe tomorrow we can give the stretch a go.
Update: He of course wouldn't sleep in the PM but after 1.5 hours I don't blame him. He obviously really needed it today. Okay, so back on track...she should be waking him after 30 min. in AM!
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Just updating for myself, so I can keep track of the madness!!
So yesterday he did 4:15 A time in the AM (awoke at 6am but then I think he went back to sleep until 7am'ish.) He had 1h 15min. nap and then slept again for a half hour in the pm. I put him down after 7pm and he chatted on and off until close to 8pm and no wakeups.
Until 5:30am this morning when he started to cry and wouldn't stop, I had to get him up. I was going to try to put him back down after 10 minutes but he was having none of it. Mom said that by 7am he seemed to be falling asleep in his highchair which he never does so she put him down and it woke him up somehow because he began chatting and playing for 30 min. when I went in and took him out and told her it was too early. I told her to put him down at 9/9:30am so we'll see what time he went down and for how long!
Update She put him down at 9:30am and he woke up at 11:15am...we'll see how the rest of the day goes but he seems off in disposition as well, maybe he'll finally pop some darned teeth...we've been at 6 teeth since November! She put him down again at 3pm and he slept for 1/2 hour. Come 5pm he was sooo tired, she put him to bed close to 6:30pm and he hasn't had a wakeup...poor kid had a long day!
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A little update on us:
Yesterday he was up at 7:40am so I put him down just after noon and he slept a little over an hour. We were out in the pm so didn't get to try for a pm nap - not that he would have taken one. We got home, quickly bathed him and put him down a little after 7:30pm...he cried out at 5:30am (which he seems to do every morning now but usually it's a minor peep and he goes back to sleep) and I thought he might not go back to sleep. Within a few minutes of crying he seemed to settle and fell back asleep and woke up at 8:45am!!!! Oh glorious!! I guess he made up for not sleeping during the day. So I'm thinking he'll have to go down at 1-1:30pm today...right in time for my niece's 1st communion afterparty...I know he won't sleep there so I may just bring him home and then go back when he wakes, I mean the kid has to sleep!
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Hi again,
need some help as I'm not sure what to do....there has been several occasions now where Jack is waking a little later 7:30am and can now go it seems 4.5 A time...so today he went down at noon and woke up less than an hour later...it could have been 45 minutes, nobody knows for sure without video as he gets silent the first 10 minutes usually but isn't really asleep. Sometimes he'll start chatting after this.
Anyhow, I told my mom to put him down around 4-4:30pm...should we continue with this? And if he doesn't sleep? And what do we do in terms of A time now...looks like he's going down at the perfect time - noon but isn't sleeping the long 2-3 hours...will that just come over time like your LO did? In the meantime do we just keep trying the PM nap in case he needs it and move up bedtime? Should we still limit that noon nap if it's occuring when it is - I would think now as we want it to stretch out?
She put him down at 4:15pm and it's 5:20pm and he's still sleeping!
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HI- just reading through quickly- sounds like you have some of the same issues I did when my LO was going through the 2-1 switch + teething- fun, isn't it? ugh.
We had a few days with a 45 min nap at about noontime, and we just put him down early to sleep that night- at 6 PM. Then gradually that noontime nap moved longer over about 3 weeks and now we have a 2 hour PM nap from 12:30 or 1 PM on. On the off day that he takes a late nap, we just push bedtime back.
For me, I just realized one day that he needed me to be flexible with his schedule until he was solidly on one nap.
Sounds like you got a little slice of heaven to have the7:30PM-8:45AM night! I don't think I've ever gotten that!
Keep it up, you're doing fine- hang in there, one day it will get better!
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cathie's rigth -- keep at it!
If nap is post 11:30, then you DON'T wake him because you're HOPING he has 1 long nap. It takes time for their body to realize only one nap is coming! So BE PATIENT! And expect some early bedtimes for awhile. I'd probably just consistently give him 1 nap at this point, no cat naps, unless nights become unbearable. If he's STTN, then keep him on 1 for the forseeable future and he'll adjust!
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Thanks for the responses! So no more waking when he goes down after 11:30am - check! He ended up sleeping 1 hour and 15 minutes for the PM nap and then I put him down just past 7:30pm and so far no complaints and no wakeups.
So I guess we'll do one nap unless he for whatever reason is extremely tired or wakes really early and needs to go down early for the AM nap. The early bedtime isn't an issue, he was doing that when he was on 2 naps and still sleeping 12+ hours! I know I've got a good sleeper which is why I don't want to complain and why I know he can do this! As for schedule, I've always been a slave for sleep so we've never been ones to be out and about and him sleeping in the car or stroller (because he wouldn't anyway!) and we don't have activities either so we can definitely be flexible.
Going to tell mom about the new approach and see how it goes...thanks again ladies, I think we're getting there!
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Hooray for no wakings- you are getting there! Good work and keep it up!
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Success!!
So Jack woke up at 7:20am this morning and I told my mom to put him down at 11:45am. At 11am she was calling me saying he was exhausted and she wanted to put him down - had been this way since after 10:30am...I told her to take him outside (again!) and distract him and get him as close to 11:30am as she could. She put him down at 11:45am and he slept for 2 hours!!!
Now, tomorrow may be a different story but I know he can do it. And now he doesn't have to go to bed so early tonight! Thanks again!
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The key is having him wake late enough so that you can really push him to that 11:45 time. WTG! And yay!!!! It may still be a struggle here and there for another month, but i think after that it will be smooth-sailing-1-nap-land! ;D
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What would you consider waking late enough? Any suggestions on how to make them wake later if need be? Of course my mother doesn't attribute anything to the changes I've made - she said he slept 2 hours because he was exhausted...hmmm, so those other times when he was exhausted and only slept 30 minutes? She doesn't get it, she tells me to stop reading books! lol I'm sure when we are completely switched and she's enjoying 2 hour windows to do what she has to get done she'll come up with another theory as to why it's happening. Whatever, as long as he's getting the sleep he needs! ;D
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I'm always happy if my DS makes it past 6:45AM, but it's really individual and varies from day to day...
Hugs for your mom's lack of understanding...ugh...it's frustrating when family doesn't get it...You are doing great and you can feel smug when the switch works, and YOU know why!!
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Like Cathie says -- usually if they wake 6:30+ that will get you to your goal of 1 nap 11:30 or later.
nothing you can do, but the more 2 hour naps he has the better it all goes!
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Okay thanks, he doesn't usually wake earlier than 7am, rarely 6am and I mean RARELY.
This morning he awoke at 6:50am and then played quietly until I got him at 7:20am.
Mom put him down at 11:45am and he only slept for one hour to which she said "see". Which I then corrected her and said I never expected he would do it again and everyday from this day forward. She said she would try again at 3:30pm to which I said no (only 2.5 hours??), just to put him to bed at 6pm. Hope that was the right choice...if we tried to squeeze another nap in it would be at 5pm and that's too late in my opinion...this way he has 5 hours A time before bed, which he has had and we keep it only at one nap. Hope she listens to me!
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good for you for sticking to your guns- she should listen to your requests as this is YOUR child! hope that she kept to your schedule, and yes, I think an early bedtime instead of a late nap was a good choice.
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Yay, she listened to me and put him down for bed at 6pm and he awoke this morning at 8:20am?? Guess he made up for only the 1 hour during the day yesterday!
So she is to put him down around 1pm, hopefully he throws in a long one! Thanks again for your help ladies!
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I'm going to scream!!! I told her to put him down at 1pm when I learned he had awoken at 8:30am...I had originally told her around 12:30/1pm if he woke at 8am but then called her to say definitely 1pm or later. So she put him down at 12:30pm, said he was tired before that and of course he slept 1/2 hour. Now's she going to HAVE to try to put him down again before bed....ugggh. One step forward, two steps back. :'(
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Yep, hang in there...
TBH, some days I did the nap just by the book and still only got 30 mins out of him, hugs honey, it will get better.
Glad you at least got a nice long night out of him.
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Yes, this is true and also mostly like why he did the 30 min and the didn't sleep again when she tried at 4pm...oh well, he'll be in bed by 6pm and the last time I will have seen him will be Wednesday morning...oh well, I refuse to keep him up just to see him...that's how much of a sleep nazi I am!
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Hugs- you are not a "sleep nazi"- you are trying to do the best you can for your child! Don't let anyone label you otherwise- and certainly remember that you will have a happier, better adjusted child for listening to his sleep cues-
I'd do the same in your shoes, and you can still creep into his room while he sleeps and gaze at him...
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Cathie, thanks for the encouragement...I certainly need it...I honestly didn't think it would be this crazy!!
So he went to bed at 6:30pm last night...chatted for awhile before falling asleep and no wakeups. Until 6:20am this morning...I thought he might go back to sleep but no dice so I got him out of bed around 7am.
I told mom to put him down at 11am so it may be a 2 nap day today unfortunately. I was hoping to be able to just go to 1 nap but with him being up so early I figure he may need it - especially if he doesn't sleep long for that nap...we'll see I guess. I'll update when I know. What would you do?
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You guys are really really close to making it to 1 nap. What happens if you push him out to 11:30 on a day like this? Is his nap short? the decision depends on him -- if he just really can't make it 5 hours then go for the 2 naps like you plan.
hang in there girl! It's just a short ride from here to 1nap land! We alternated between 1 and 2 naps for a month I think! It felt very chaotic because I couldn't predict from day to day when/how long he napped! But then we finally were able to handle 1 nap and then wow. No more unpredictableness. Not only that, he was on the exact same routine for 6 months! We were used to chaning routines every month! so it will be allllllllllll worth it. Try not to make yourself too crazy. Everyone with a child this age is going thru the EXACT same thing. Some days your nap strategy will work, some days it will not work. :P Just the nature of the beast! Your entire goal right now is just trying to get him this phase without being *too* OT by the end of it so that you don't have EWs, because EWs make moving to 1 nap nearly impossible. You're doing a bang-up job of avoiding the EWs, so yay you! Just hang on a *little* bit longer. :-*
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Oh no, what happens after six months...they change to what? ;)
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hee hee. you don't *really* want to know what they change to. It ain't always pretty. ;D
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It might help if I was prepared...?? lol
So, my pops was mistaken when I called close to 11am to tell him to stretch Jack to 11:30am...he was already asleep! Mom said he was whining/crying, he didn't even want to be outside (now THAT's unheard of!) so she put him down at 10:45am...he slept for an hour.
She'll try to give him rest at 4pm but if he doesn't sleep like yesterday then she knows to put him to bed at 6pm. I bet he didn't sleep much yesterday during the day due to his waking at almost 8:30am!! Then again, that was to make up for the day before when he didn't sleep much during the day...ah the lovely cycles!
We forge on! :P
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Yep- the lovely cycles, up early odd naps, then up late, sleep in, one nap, then two...ugh. drove me nuts! For us, it took a full 3 mos of madness to adjust, and now it's lovely- hang in there and try not to worry! It will happen!!
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Just so I can keep track: 2nd nap at 3:45pm - slept for 45 minutes, bed at 7:30pm.
We'll see how tomorrow goes!
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So the weekend was alright, still only one nap per day at the most 1 hour...yesterday may have been 45 minutes...bedtime has been 6 or 6:30pm. Yesterday he awoke at 7:50am so I put him down at 12:30pm and he slept for maybe 45 minutes...put him to bed at 6:30pm. This morning he was awake at 5:50am...wouldn't fall back asleep. So I'm saying today will be a 2 nap day...I don't want to increase the OT I think is starting to creep in...he's been having a few NW (again, if /when it happens it's only once a before 11pm, within 20 min. he's back asleep after soothing)...but still, they've increased as has his EW's...oy...should I be putting him to bed even earlier?? It's not consistent every day, it's like every other day. I also hear him at 5am'ish every morning but usually he falls right back asleep...why can't this progress?
Since we started this we had one or two actualy days in the very beginning of the stretch where he slept for 2 hours at a nap...and we're going away in 3 weeks (not that I still won't be strict with sleep!) so I worry about things being affected....uggh.
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You know, on a day he wakes at 7:50, I might try a noon nap. That's a little over 4 hours A time and if he sleeps 2 hours you get a 2 pm waking. I think that's what I'd do for those late morning wakings.
This is a TOUGH phase, but look at it this way: every day his A time increases just a teeny bit. In another week he'll be closer to handling the nec. A time for 1 nap. IN 2 more weeks he'll be even closer, etc. The 2-1 nap switch is awful. Hence all the threads/support groups you see about it here! So you aren't alone. The benefit is that after it's over you are done with nap changes! well, until the nap disappears. :P I'm in denial about that change, though. ;D
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Okay, so late wakings (I assume after 7:30am?) try noon nap...hey, can I just send him to you and you can return him fixed? ;)
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Only if I can send you my 3 yr old for a tune-up every now and then! ;D
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Deal!! Where are you located?? ;D
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Another update:
no wakeups last night...a few nights in a row now (hopefully he won't do it tonight either as he's alone with Dad tonight). This morning he woke up at 6am...ugh. Told mom to put him down at 10/10:30am as long as she could stretch him. She took him out for a long walk, put him down at 10:30am and he woke up at 12:30pm...2 hours!!
Only thing is unless I put him to bed at 5pm we have to try a catnap. I KNOW he'll most likely fight the PM catnap (although sometimes when he gets good sleep, he actually sleeps again). I told her to give it a shot at 4/4:30pm and see what happens.
UPDATE: I was right and wrong...she put him down just after 4pm and he slept for another hour...when he sleeps he sleeps! Oh well, hopefully he's catching up on the OT and he'll wake not so early tomorrow morning so we can get back on track!
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Wow -- 3 hours daytime sleep? He *was* tired! I hope it helps him catch up too! And this means a later bedtiem probably too, which hopefully will give you a later waking which HOPEFULLY will help push nap out!
4 hours A time sounds like was the ideal spot! I'd go with that and see how that works out!
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Yes, 3 hours daytime sleep - I was shocked and yet I had a sneaking suspicion after having a long morning sleep that he would actually have another long sleep - it's when he doesn't have long sleep that he fights the nap, the kid is backwards! lol So we put him to bed at 7:30pm and he awakened at 6:15am, talked for maybe a half hour? And then he fell asleep again and woke up at 8am. I told mom to put him down at noon (upon your previous advice of late wakings) so we'll see how that goes.
UPDATE(doing a happy dance!!!) I just called my mom...she put him down at 12:15pm and he's still sleeping...almost 2.5hours later!!! YAYAYAYAYAY!!! I know this doesn't necessarily mean it's smooth sailing from here on in but I'm so happy he's gotten 2 consecutive days of good sleep to keep him on track, get him out of that nasty OT cycle that was creeping in, and helping further us along in getting rid of the morning nap!!!
Thanks so much for your constant support and suggestions ladies, you've been extremely helpful!
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YAHOOOOO!!!! You've found the magic spot for him!
You have a very sleepy bub like mine. Mine is EXACTLY like yours -- the more sleep he gets, the more he gets! LOL! I know all kids are this in some way ("sleep begets sleep") but I think both our kids exceed the average sleep expected for their age. For instance, my son sleeps MORE at night if he gets a 3 hour nap than if he takes a 2 hour nap. At 3 he shouldn't need 15-16 hours of sleep/day! But that's what happens when he takes a 3 hour nap! Goofy! And I think you have the same kind of toddler! As long as you respect his A time he's going to be an awesome sleeper for you! You are SO close to crossing into 1 nap land permanently! WTG mom (and grandma!)!!
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So, to bed last night at 7:30pm, no wakings, this morning's wakeup 6:20am...guess this will be a 2 nap day??
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Well yay on STTN! And an 11 hour night is very good!
Probably will be a 2 nap day. We're finding 4 hours works best with him, right? Now, the thing is to preserve that PM nap you may not WANT that first nap to be very long, so you could push his A time since you're going to wake him you don't really care if he's OT. I might push him to 11 and see how he does. If mom says he's just knackered and puts him down earlier, that's fine, but we could use this earlier morning waking to really test his A time limits and see what they are. But that's up to you. If he sleeps well in the AM and then will still take a short PM catnap, you can do that if you prefer. My kid just would never ever nap in the afternoon after age 1 if his AM nap was more than 45 min. But if yours will, then you can stick with that pattern.
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Thank you for the options. I think we'll go with the 4 hours - he has done longer but with the past 2 days I'd rather go with this pattern and see what happens. If he sleeps well he may well sleep again in the PM or have a short one, or maybe he'll have none! Everyday is different with him!
1.25 for the am nap and she put him down at 9:45am instead of 10:30am because he was unusually fussy this morning. He went down at 3-3:30pm and slept for 45 minutes but it still hugely cranky. I told her to give him some Motrin...maybe we're FINALLY going to cut some teeth?? It's been 6 months and we still haven't moved from 6 teeth...oh joy!
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Yay for the success on the past few days!
Boo to the teeth-we're cutting more eye teeth here- definitely makes for a cranky kiddo...
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I know but he's been cranky on and off for months now and these teeth just won't cut!! He's only got 6 teeth (4 top, 2 bottom) and nothing for the last almost 7 months!
Oh well, he'll probably get them all at once! :(
So I put him to bed at 7pm and he talked on and off for over an hour...but he happily chatted in his crib, blowing raspberries, practicing his words...hopefully this means he won't wake so early tomorrow putting his nap at noon for a one nap day...we can hope can't we? ;)
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My hope was useless...he awoke at 6:20am...which seems to be his new awake time.
I told mom to push it to 11am if she could...c'mon Jack, let's get this going already!!
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It's a 2 steps forward, 1 step back process. Sigh. Hang in there!
I don't think it's bad for her to push him in the AM. If he short naps, he seems open ot taking another nap in the PM. And if you could push bedtime later it actually might get you a later waking so that could help too. What I mean is taking a 2nd nap means bedtime is later than it is on 1 nap, and if 1st nap is later then 2nd nap is later, then bedtime is later. I wouldn't stretch his pre-bedtime A time as that's a good way to get EWs.
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I thought that might be the case a couple of nights ago or even last night when he feel asleep after 8pm but he still woke up early. I guess because it hasn't been consistent?
Oh well, he napped for 1.5 hours this am starting at 11am and I put him down at 4:30pm and he's still sleeping so I imagine it will be at the very least an hour. So how much A time would you give if he's waking at 5:30pm? Keep him up until 8pm...would that suffice? How late is too late a bedtime?
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With bedtime I proably would try at 8:30 if he's sleeping that late. Honestly, I would probably recommend keeping that PM nap to no later than a 5 pm wake up to preserve a decent bedtime.
Bedtime depends on your family routine and how much A time kid can handle. Waking at 5:30 a lot of kids won't go to bed until after 9! So, you're going to probably have to experiment with having a clock time at which you wake him so that you don't make bedtime too late.
However, if he goes to bed at 8:30 and wakes at 7:30 then we're getting somewhere and can hopefully push for 1 nap (at 11:30/11:45) the next day.
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Hi Ladies! I just wanted to mark my spot on this thread! ;)
My 13 month DD is starting the transition and this thread has been very helpful!
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Well, he woke up this morning at 7:15am and I put him down at 11:45pm and now he's awake, before 1:30pm. These are the days I'm not sure what to do. I shouldn't put him down for another at 5:30pm, so just put him to bed at 6pm?
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You got it! Early to bed. There's just going to be days like this, honey. That 11:45 was probably a tad too late -- 7:15 he would have probably been more comfortable at 11:15-11:30. He's just a slooooow stretecher, I think! Have you tried extending his nap when he wakes before 2 hours, BTW?
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So I should stick with 4 hours A time? He ended up sleeping 1.5 hours which is okay but should have been longer...you think going down earlier would have made a difference in a good way?
I put him to bed at 6:20pm (we got home a little late - I'll blame my hubby because I was on him the whole time that we had to leave!! >:(). He's chatting lightly, hopefully he'll fall asleep soon.
As for trying to extend, I don't think it would work...in what way do you mean, rousing him at a certain point? There's nothing that settles him, he was never great at the extending. And now that's he's mister sociable as soon as he sees anyone in his room it's over. I can't even go in there at night to check on him anymore, he's mister independent and that's the only way he'll sleep - hence why we've had to get a vacation place with his own room!
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If he slept 1.5 hours, that's a decent nap! When my son first moved to 1 nap, we were at 1.5 hours for a good while -- a month or more? Then he slowly moved to 2 hours, and now at age 3 he easily sleeps 2.5-3 hours. But when we first switched to 1 nap we considered 1.5 hours a good nap.
I think if he's taking a good 1.5 hour nap at that A time, then you're fine! In fact, you could even try stretching it a little more so that wake up would be a bit later in the day, allowing for a slightly later bedtime. It's experimentation time. But gosh, I'd be really tempted to try 1 naps most days.
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I would have liked to stretch him a bit more but was afraid of OT especially when he fell asleep close to 9pm last night and then woke up just after 7am. If he had had a better night I might have considered it.
He's done 4.5 hours A time so I know he can do it. I was actually surprised it was 1.5 hours...I figured it would either be over 2 hours or only 1 hour so I was pleased.
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Okay so he awoke at 7:20pm - small victories!
I put him down at noon - as you said to stretch him out and he's now awake - 1 hour and 20 minutes later. Guess it's another early bedtime! Hopefully as you say this nap will just get more and more long on its own.
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Yes, I'd say try to be very consistent with that nap time and I think it will lengthen on it's own. It's hard when it's less than 2 hours b/c you feel tempted to either a) monkey with nap time, or b) give 2nd nap. But I think at this stage of the game you're doing the right thing to stretch him a teensy bit and also keep him on 1 nap.
You're almost there! I think next week this time you'll be pleased with your routine!
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Sounds like you're making good progress!
FWIW, my LO takes a 2 hour nap and does 11 hours a night max. Happy LO, and it took ages for him to settle into one nap! They all are soooo different, but the 2-1 nap switch is tiring!
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Thanks for the encouragement ladies!
Last night he was in bed by 6:30pm and chatted a bit before falling asleep. This morning I heard him chirp at 5:45am and he instantly fell back asleep, then I heard him at 6:15am a little more but then nothing until 7:50am.
We were out this morning so I put him down at 12:30pm (was aiming for 12pm but we didn't make it in time). We'll see how this goes but I only intend on doing the one nap today as well.
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WOW! What an awesome night sleep that was! Wish I'd get that here! LOL! Fingers crossed for a good day!
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I certainly can't complain about night sleep!! He's usually be great at night - it's daytime we've never really been great at!
Okay, so he just woke up - 1 hour and 45 minutes...after 4.5 hours A time this morning. Not bad eh?
Can bedtime be normal tonight? 7pm??
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GIve it a go- if he looks tired before, do an earlier bedtime- just keep an eye on sleep cues/mood, and let that guide you- nice progress!
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Yay!!! I think stick with this for another week and you can consider yourself in solid 1 nap land! Might be a regression here and there, but I think he's mostly ready! My son made the transition at 4.5 hours A time too. WTG!
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Thanks ladies!!
Well, after waking at 2:15pm I decided to put him to bed at 7pm. He has chatted on and off until close to 8pm...scratch that, I just heard him again...hmmm, is this because he woke up close to 8am this morning? Again, at least he's happy just chatting and resting! Hopefully it doesn't get him OT though, I know he's done 5 hours A time plenty before bed and hardly ever had issues so I don't think it's OT. Crossing my fingers no EW tomorrow!
Now, to get mom to stick with the program this week - so glad for the long weekend here so that I could get a better handle on things myself.
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Okay, I went back and reread the recent posts because I'm not sure how to proceed...you'd think I would after all this time!
He didn't fall asleep until just after 8pm - I'm surprised the fireworks going off in our neighbour's yard didn't wake him. He woke up just after 6am this morning...so should I just have mom put him down at 10am and wake him after 30 minutes and then put him down at 3 hours A time after that (depends on when he falls asleep?) Or should I try to push this AM nap...I think the longer we push the harder he may fight the pm nap so would it make sense to try it earlier and then give him a shorter A time afterwards for a hopefully longer pm nap?
I was really hoping we could push the consistency of 1 nap this week as you both had said! Grrrr.
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I had to hop on here... I feel like I am kind of in the same boat. You guys have done a really good job of figuring things out and sticking with it! This is my situation: I have 14 (will be tomorrow) month old b/g twins. Both are awesome day and night sleepers ( since about 3.5 months). I thought that ds might have been starting the 2-1 switch around 11 months, but then things went back to the way they were. This is their schedule as of now-
7/7:30 -wake up
10-11:30 or 12:00- nap
2:30(sometimes 3 if they sleep until 12 in the am)- wake them by 4 if not up- nap
7-bedtime
I know they are not doing nearly as much A time as they should at this age, but things have been going pretty smoothly and I have been taking a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude! This is where the change comes in. For the past few nights ds has gone to bed at normal time (7- after about3 hr of A time) and he has been "playing" for over and hour!! I feel like he is finally able to make a long stretch without turning into a monster, but it is at a terrible time!! DD on the other had is holding her own, as usual! This is hard enough with one baby, two is crazy! I really want to keep them on the same schedule and I am not opposed to going to one nap- But honestly, stretching them in the am is a real struggle. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. DH and I are going away for 5 days without them (for the first time)- It is going to be a major change, especially since even though they will take sippy's of milk, I am still bfing them when they get up in the am and before bed- I am hoping to keep things as is until we get back- Do you think that is going to make it worse?
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Ouch, that would be difficult with twins, especially the BF'ing part. I weaned Jack (well, he weaned himself really as he was refusing to feed but would take from a bottle) before a year. Hopefully the helpful ladies will have some advice for you! As you can see, I also followed some wrong cues and kept him on a younger schedule but he has adjusted quite well to the longer A times and is napping longer than ever before.
Well, mom put Jack down between 10 and 10:30am and woke him up a little after 30 minutes (to give him time not knowing exactly when he actually fell asleep). He was a little disoriented but didn't cry. I told her to put him down between 2 and 2:30pm. I hope this works!
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jrmommy -- you might want to post your question on the multiples board. Not sure how to approach it with 2! Sounds like they are now departing routines, and I'm sure the multiple mommies have lots of advice on how to handle that. the only approach I have is to modify DS routine, but that leaves sis on a diff. one which would be very irritating for you I'm sure! So try multiples board, and come on back over here if they don't have the info you're looking for!
evilmena -- hey girl, this stuff is going to happen. I'm curious as to why it took him an hour to fall asleep. Do you think he was OT at bedtime? Or do you think he's stretching his A some more? Go ahead and do 2 naps, don't beat yourself up about it. Here's your goal: as many days as possible get a late enough wake up that you can go for 1 nap. That means having bedtime be wtihin his sleep window AND post 7 pm. We should gradually see the 2 nap days disappear.
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Thanks, I don't know why he took so long to be honest...maybe he just wasn't that tired?? I'm thinking it was because he woke up at almost 8am that morning...that's the only explanation I have because he wouldn't have been OT...our afternoon after being out was pretty low key and he didn't seem cranky/tired, maybe I just put him to bed too early. Maybe he could also hear the neighbours in the back (we live on a creek and the sound carries). I wasn't even aware they were back there until I left the front of the house to shower (my room is at the back next to Jack's) and then realized they were out there with a whack of screaming kids and ready to blow fireworks.
Still, the early waking was not welcome! :P I hope he sleep better this PM so that we can do a post 7pm bedtime and hopefully a later wakeup to keep up with the 1 nap routine! Thanks again!
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Oh I'm so seething mad right now!!!
I called to see if and how long he slept for his 2nd nap - she told me he slept a little over half an hour before she woke him up so I told her to put him down at 3 hours A time after that (between 2 and 2:30pm). Well, she put him down after 2:30pm and he fell asleep at 3pm and woke up 1/2 hour later. Then she tells me oh we shouldn't have waken him now he's only had 1.5 hours sleep. Wait a minute, 1/2 +1/2 = 1 hour...nope, see let him sleep close to an hour for the AM nap - how could I wake him she says if he doesn't fall asleep right away then he'd only have done 20 minutes. So it's all messed up.
Either way, if he had 45 min. in the AM he still won't go long in the PM...is this just my child? I bet if he had slept longer in the AM he would have probably slept in the PM but then it would be too late and then we have EW. So should I just do the reverse and if he wakes that early, let him sleep it out in the AM and just cut his pm short??
I am just so angry that I don't have control over this!! And after everything I did on the weekend. I tell her even doctors suggest cutting AM nap short - apparently my child doesn't do this according to her. But in the end, maybe she's right. :'(
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What's normal at this age is if child sleeps too long in AM they won't be tired enough for a PM nap -- they either skip it or it is ultra short.
Hey, don't get too frustrated! He's on the cusp of 1 solid nap so it's only a week or two of this craziness and then you'll be in 1 solid nap territory. It's very hard when you're not the only one working on the naps. Your mom has raised kids too so feels like she knows what to do. But you're the mama so you want things to go *your* way! It's a pretty difficult situation to be in. But don't worry: even though you've got 2 cooks in your kitchen he WILL move to 1 nap -- he won't still be taking 2 naps in college no matter what. :-*
I'd still really try to limit AM nap and let him sleep as long as he wants in PM (with perhaps a 4 pm cut off for waking to preserve a decent bedtime). Unless you get a 7 am or later waking, then push for 1 nap 11:30 or so.
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Well I put him to bed at 7:10pm and nary a peep...no chatting, etc. He's out! Let's hope for a later waking tomorrow.
So if he wakes at 7am or later then nap at noon? Sorry, I didn't understand the "unless he wakes at 7am or later then 11:30 or later nap."
Please please please Jack just wake up later....please???
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As I reported, he went down with no chatting and was doing great. Then he cried out at 12:10am, 2:30am, 4:15am and finally awoke at 7:10am. He cried/whimpered for a few minutes but it never escalated and I didn't have to go in there, he fell back asleep. In the morning he had pooped and had a rash and sounded like he might be catching his dad's cold. So I'm not sure if either of those or those darned teeth caused the wakeups or if it was his lack of sleep yesterday - don't you love the speculation?? :P
Anyhow, the 7:10am waking I'm pleased with - I was certain after all those wakeups he would be up at 6am. I told mom to put him down at 11:30am or as close to it as she could providing he wasn't exhausted. Hopefully he can make it and get some good rest.
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Becky 1969- I was going to post on the multiples board, but I think i'll actually be ok with getting them to do the same thing at the same time. Even though DD seems to be doing her thing, she is easy and if I tweak DS schedule I know DD will be able to just follow along... That is basically how it has gone from the get go with them! So, if you would mine helping me with the tweaking, I would greatly appreciate it! I feel like I have always had pretty good control over sleep stuff, I'm just confused because the am nap isn't getting shorter, they aren't resisting the pm nap, they are sleeping great at night (I shouldn't even be saying this... I'll probably jinx myself)- but I know I am on borrowed time and I think with this playing at night stuff, they probably are ready for a change...
Evilmena- I am sorry I just barged in on your posts here... Hope you don't mind... I am just so intrigued with the help you are getting and how you are doing it! I am a crazy sleep mom too! I can't even imagine how frustrating it is to feel like you are not in control. I am luck enough to still me home with these guys. I am completely stressing about going away tomorrow- my il's are staying with the babies- I feel like all my hard work is going to be whisked away in 5 days... I agree, just from reading, it sounds like you are really close. How long have you been working through this transition?
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No worries jrmommyx2, these ladies are wonderful with their support and suggestions.
Well, we've been going through this since my first post in this thread, at least a month, maybe two? I'd have to check the date. But we've been dealing with short naps his whole life!! It's only during this transition that he's getting better sleep.
So he barely made it to 10:45am so she put him down and he slept until 12:15pm - so 1.5 hours. I told her to try again at 4pm but only a catnap of 30-max. 45 minutes and not later than 5pm.
UpdateShe put him down at 4pm and he slept for a 1/2 hour...yay! Only thing is now, he has a fever. So again, I don't know if he's caught what his dad has (although hubby doesn't have a fever) or it really is teeth. Hopefully this doesn't bother his sleep too much, it hasn't in the past. He's actually quite unaffected by things like illness and teething (hope I haven't jinxed it!).
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My guess is teeth. The rashy bum is the give away to me. My son ALWAYS got a bad rash on his bum while teething. And he didn't usually get fevers, but he did with the canines. Just keep an eye on him and see what develops! The restless at night could be either teeth or illness. I"m sure it will disappear soon.
I think you've got a kid who's very sensitive to being OT, hence the not great naps his whole life. You're going to LVOE this kid on 1 nap. He's probably going to nap great for you and until he's fairly old. You're nearly there!
jrmommy -- would you mind making a new post? We like to keep our posts as individual as possible so that we cna help the most people! Since we're already several pages in on this post, it's unlikely you'll get much attention here. So start a new one, put the link here and I promise I'll give you a visit and some advice once it's up! :) Thanks!
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Yes, he's very sensitive to OT and I was a hawk with sleep. I have definitely learned a lot about sleep though from this child that hopefully will help me in not making the same mistakes with the next!
His fever went down before bed last night with some Motrin and he fell asleep at just after 7:30pm. No wakeups though, or crying, just some coughing and little murmurs here and there. I really hate that I can't go in his room though for fear of waking as I worried about his temp going back up. Well, he awoke crying this morning at about 5am. He had a fever again so I gave him more meds and waited a half hour until it went down. It didn't as quickly so by that time he was up and about, gave him milk and some breakfast - he wasn't crazy hungry and then I put him down at almost 8am. He cried when I first left him but soon stopped and fell asleep and I just called hom and he was still sleeping at 10am. Poor kid, I guess he's making up for his 2 hours too early waking!
Today, nap schedule may be out the window, I just want him to get rest to fight whatever this is. We'll see how the day progresses.
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Your lo is just like mine! She was a 30 min napper until 10 months!! We are a little further along in the switch then you, but as soon as I started stretching her naps got longer. I have recently gotten her first 2 hr nap since she was 5 or 6 months old (and that was like one occassion). So I hope you are right, Becky, that we will love this stage!
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I hope to love this stage...I really do, whenever it gets here! ;D
So he slept 2.5 hours this morning (after his 5am waking and 2.5-3 hours A time). Then he had a 1/2 hour nap at 2pm and I put him to bed at 7pm...he chatted on and off until about 7:40pm I think. Hopefully he sleeps well tonight and no EW. His temperature was gone by the time he woke up from his 1st nap and he seemed to be in better spirits.
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Again, posting to keep track:
He woke up today at 7:10 am, having mom put him down at 11:30am-12pm. Last night he cried out at 12:30am but after a few minutes fell asleep then brief cry at 6 something and back to sleep until waking. Fever is gone which is good. Hopefully we're going to get back on track!
Update he slept for 1.5 hours this morning from 11:30am-1pm so although the length was pretty good, it still puts us in either two nap territory or super early bedtime. Considering he still has a bit of a cold I'm putting him down for a catnap at 4pm (he's still chatting on and off at 4:15pm) and won't let him go past 5pm.
Do you think maybe I can stretch him to 5 hours A time or is that not recommended for his age? Maybe if we stretch him to 5 hours he can go down at noon and maybe he'll sleep longer?
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You can most certainly try 5 hours! It's def. worth a try. And I wouldn't give up after 1 time either -- give it a couple of days to see if it works for him.
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I think I'd like to, we were almost there until we decided to stick with the schedule and then he went all over the place again.
Well, I tried to put him down for a catnap at 4pm and nothing, he was quiet for like 15 minutes and then started babbling again. At 5pm I brought him down, did dinner (he's SUPER fussy about food the last few days more than normal) and did bath and at 6:30pm/7pm I tried to put him down. Wanted to put him down at 6pm but he was taking forever to eat. Well, he screamed for like 10 minutes, I went in and did my usual - brought him out for a few minutes, thought he might be hot so I took a layer off, then redid the routine and back in the room. He started flailing almost immediately. Left him for another good 10 minutes, maybe more and he just kept freaking so I went into his room and didn't take him out this time, just held him and put him down in the room, again instantly he was in play mode. Whenever I tried to stop him for grabbing something, he'd meltdown and then go about his business. Finally I'd had enough so I put him down and left and again he freaked.
Finally his dad got home and I was going to use reinforcements to see if it would work but as soon as we walked up the steps he stopped. It was almost 8pm. An hour of freaking basically...he has never done this. He just cried again after almost an hour asleep (but I'm primed to think it could have been because the phone rang)...cried for a few minutes but seems to have fallen asleep. I'd better see 4 molars erupt within the next few days because this is getting beyond ridiculous!! >:(
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No more wakeups after that one, I heard him at 7:30am and thought he was "up" up but then suddenly my hubby's telling me it's 8:30am and shortly thereafter Jack starts to mumble...I think he fell back asleep after 7:30am. So we got him up and I put him to bed at 1pm (4.5 hours A time) and it's 3pm and he's still sleeping!! ;D
Woke up at 3:10pm, so 2 hours 10 minutes of sleep!
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Wow, CONGRATS on getting to sleep in and the long nap! That's great! ;D
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Thanks, it was pretty good after yesterday...we make progress then get worse, and so on!
After his nap though he became a bit of a terror...I'm still figuring teeth although I don't feel anything poking through yet, just a lot of bumps.
So I put him down at 7:30pm and he seems to be quieting down - certainly no freakouts from yesterday, thank goodness!
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So he went down without incident at 7:30pm last night and woke up at 7:30am this morning. I put him down for his nap at 12:15pm and he slept until 1:30pm...just a little over an hour. Ugh...he had visitors so he may have been woken up by them. Anyhow, I'm putting him to bed for 6pm because of it.
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You're getting closer! Don't get too frustrated. 7:30-7:30 is fantastic! Now we just need a little longer nap and you'll be good!
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Thanks, we're plugging on!
He didn't actually fall asleep at the time I put him down...I still heard him chatting on and off until 7:30pm...that seems to be the time he falls asleep at regardless of when he's put down until he's had a hellish day. But I also know if he had been "up" until 7:30pm it would be worse so at least he gets rest and quiet and he doesn't complain. Hoping for no EW's tomorrow!
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Well, he woke up at 6:50am this morning, not too bad. Told mom to put him down at 11:30am-12pm. She said she put him down at noon and he was awake at 1pm. So, 1 hour...oy.
I told her not to bother with a second nap as it would be too late...early bedtime? I'm sticking with one nap right - unless he wakes at 6/6:30am or earlier? I just don't think he'll sleep at anything earlier than 5pm and then it's too late. Thing is I'll put him to bed at 6pm and he may still fight sleep until later. I hope these naps lengthen soon. I really worry about this trip as well messing things up - at least for the first couple of days.
Our flight is at 3pm and since we have to drive 2 hours to get there and have to be there an hour before the flight we'll be leaving right when he should be napping, or in the middle of a nap. And I know my child, he WON'T sleep in the car, I highly doubt he'll sleep on the plane, and by the time we arrive it will be in an around 6:30/7pm so bedtime and i'll have to try and adjust him to new surroundings. If I haven't mentioned it in this thread he's VERY particular about where and how he sleeps - dark room, white noise, crib.
Would you recommend at all waking him a little earlier that day to get him down to a nap at 11am - and what time - 6am'ish?? Think that would backfire? Even if he just naps for an hour, I'd rather he have some sleep...he's had one day when he hasn't napped at all and it was pretty brutal. A long car ride and our first plane ride I really need him to be a least a bit rested. Thoughts??
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i don't think I'd sweat it too much. I took my son on a 12 hour trip -- two 5 hour plane rides and a 2 hour layover -- when he was 20 months old. He also doesn't sleep in the car. He ended up having two 30 min naps (one on each flight) and by the time we got to where we were going it was past midnight! Of COURSE he was OT, so he woke at 8 am the next day. Which was actually fine as it kept us on a fairly normal routine. There was a 3 hour time zone difference, so 8 am there was 5 am at home. ::) But we just went by the local time -- I just kept A time reasonable.
My son is also VERY sensitive to light etc., and he and I shared a room on this trip -- the room was pretty bright, despite me hanging towels on the windows LOL. But he amazed me by taking 1.5-2 hour naps the whole time we were there. I think he was just exhausted. I never got him to bed before 10 pm once that whole trip, and he only got about 10 hours sleep each night, but it worked out in the end.
I guess what I'm saying is DO NOT FRET. Enjoy your trip! Your son will probably do better than you expect, if for no other reason than he'll be exhausted by all the new stuff going on! The things I found worked great on the plane were a) portable DVD player - my son never watched TV at home, so the DVD player was new and exciting; b) little plastic animals to play with on the airplane tray; c) picture cards with animals on them; d) a couple of new books he hadn't ever seen before; e) some new foods he hadn't eaten -- like juice boxes or foods in fun little packets (goldfish crackers, fruit candies, etc.) I also used lots of smarties (not choc. candies, but sweetart type canides) to bribe him with in the airport and on the plane. That worked a treat! suckers worked well too. Do not underestimate the power of a bribe!
If he has a lovey or uses a paci for sleep, don't forget to bring them on the plane with you. I forgot to put my son's blankey in our carry-on on the way there, and I think things would have gone better with it. On the way back I did bring blankey and while he didn't sleep more, the blankey was a nice cuddle companion!
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Good to hear that your son did well...so the change in schedule (only sleeping 10 hours/night) didn't continue when you got home? I worry that I'll create a bad habit although I'm pretty sure I'll be getting him to bed before then on a regular basis.
I already have it planned to bring the lovey on the plane and in the car just to calm him. We'll also bring a new toy and new books to keep him entertained...which reminds me I need to contact the airline to be sure what kind of food I can bring since it will take place between most of his days meals/milk/snacks.
So I put him down just after 6pm last night and less than an hour later he woke up crying. It was consistent but not freaking like he sometimes does. I decided to wait this one out since he seemed to pause in between cries - possibly waiting for someone to come in - and after 10-15 minutes he fell back asleep. Yay! No other wakeups that night, but he was awake for the day at 6:15am. I told mom to put him down at just after 10am so it will most likely be a two nap day - hopefully catch up on any OT.
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Ugh...so she put him down at 10:20pm...he slept for maybe 1/2 hour...guess he's getting used to the one nap! I could have pushed for 5 hours of A time but that would still put him at just after 11am which I thought would be too early for one nap, maybe I made the wrong call. Oh well, I told her to try again at 2/2:30pm.
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I was worried about 'bad habits' too, but nope! He totally reverted to normal sleep when we got home.
I think I would really push for 1 nap here on out. I think he's ready. Yes, some days might be hard but on the whole I think he'll do really well that way.
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Okay, starting tomorrow I will do my best. So on a day like today when he wakes so early, when you put him down for that one nap...he can do up to 5 hours A time relatively well I think, just needs to get a little more used to it. So, just after 11am and then hope he sleep long, if not put him to bed early?
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You got it! At this stage of the game, that's waht I did: 1 nap no matter what and then a VERY early bedtime if he woke early or if nap happened too early in the day. That means we had a LOT of nights where he was in bed by 6 pm. but every week we had fewer early bedtimes because wakings got better and naps got longer. It's just time to bite the bullet!
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I think I'm ready to do this because the two naps don't work. He did sleep for another hour when she put him down at 2:30pm but then at 7:30pm he was NOT interested in sleeping and was awake and crying until 8pm when he finally fell asleep. No matter what I'll just have her put him down for one nap and make early bedtimes. What to do though if he does like other nights where he'll chat a lot? Most nights though he'll actually just pass out.
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becky 1969- Thanks for offering to help- Not sure how to to the link, but the thread I started is called:
"Naps not getting shorter but playing at bedtime"
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So no other wakeups last night, he awoke this morning at 8:15am!! ;D
So mom put him down at 12:30pm and he slept for two hours! ;D
Yay for small victories!
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woohoo!
jrmommyx2 i'll try to check you out!
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Today he woke up at 6:55am, I told mom to put him down at 11:30am-12pm...she put him down at 11:15am. She said he slept and then she heard him again an hour later and then he was quiet and finally seemed to wake up (there's no real way of knowing other than by his silence) at 1pm. So it seems a total of almost 2 hours but I think there was definitely some wakeup time in between. So he'll be going to bed at 6pm. Oy. She said she tried to put him back down at 3pm'ish but he was having none of it, I told her no more 2nd naps.
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That's great he went back to sleep! My son was up for an entire hour yesterday in between sleep periods during his nap. As long as he doesn't make me go in his room, I'm cool with it! ;D Your son will adjust to this 1 nap thing. It takes a week or more for them to get good at it, but it happens! I'm so happy that you guys are here!
Early bedtime, but I think you're well on your way. It's going to be a month or so probably of early bedtimes here and there. Just don't let it throw you. Over time you'll have more predictable days than not.
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Thanks, I'm fine with early bedtimes but he's starting to reject them it seems. Tonight he threw another fit and whined/cried for an hour so I went in and took him out for a bit. He's still got quite the stuffy nose from his cold and he had pooped so I was glad I went in. After 10 minutes I put him back down and he cried for like 2 minutes and then quickly settled. Motrin is a godsend. This cold and his teething certainly isn't helping the situation!
He then fell asleep and it was 7:30pm...weird how regardless of when he wakes from the nap he seems to want to go down around 7-7:30pm most times.
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Well, then you may have to go with that! A lot of toddlers switch to being all about clock times. It may be time to go that way too -- 12:00 nap, 7:30 bedtime (maybe in bed at 7, that gives him 30 to wind down). What do you think?
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I'll give it a shot, I'll also see how he is at an early time and see if he will fight me or not. If not I'll put him down, if he does I'll wait until 7pm.
Today he woke up just after 7am, mom put him down just after noon and she said she heard him 1 hour later. Then on and off he was quiet until 1:30pm when he seemed awake for good. She brought him down at 2pm.
What would cause the 1 hour sleep...that's not OT right, is it UT? Should I be putting him down later?? Or will it just lengthen on its own as we've discussed if we just keep at it.
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I think I'd give it a week. That's about how long it took my son to lengthen his 1 nap. If after a week he's still taking 1 hour naps, then I'd try 30 minutes later and see if that changes things.
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Thanks, I'll see how he does on the trip and then adjust if needed.
Last night he should have gone to bed at 6pm but I waited and put him down at 7pm and he went down without a fight and with no noise. Then over an hour later he awoke crying like from a nightmare which quickly diminished to a different cry. I left him to sort it out for 10 minutes and he fell back asleep. This morning he awoke at 7:30am!
Just put him down at noon and it sounds like he's out. Hopefully he gets some good rest before tomorrow's crazy travelling day!
Thanks again for all your help!
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Hello,
wanted to update our situation - I tried while we were on our trip but the boards were down.
So the plane ride was great but he didn't sleep at all that day and the night was a bit hellish, he woke up crying after 30 min. or an hour but after some soothing he went to sleep for the night.
The next day he napped I think for maybe 1/2 hour or 1 hour and the two days after that he slept for over 2 hours. Then it was pretty consistently 1 hour or so. Bedtimes were fine after that...he went to bed no later than 8:30pm...usually around 7:30pm when we got into a routine. I found if I tried to put him down sooner it worked against us. His wakeups weren't early either...I'd hear him cry out around 6/6:30am'ish but then back to sleep until after 7am/7:30am. All in all it was pretty good. He passed out in the car and stroller once each which is huge for us as he doesn't normally do that. The lovey came in REAL handy - only thing is now he tends to look for it all the time. But we're trying to limit it to bed and special circumstances.
Since we've been back he's had two great days of just under 2 hour naps each. I generally put him down around noon, or before 12:30pm if he's woken late and so far so good. Hope it keeps on like this! He's still not broken any teeth but I can the gums are HUGE...luckily his sleep isn't greatly affected by that...knock wood!
Thanks again for all your help ladies!
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Hooray! Great update! Glad that things are going well and that the pattern sticks for a while.
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Me too!
Actually yesterday he only slept for 1.5 hours, and today it was only 1 hour but he woke up crying and didn't want to eat before or after nap... Please let this be teeth!
I didn't do anything different and he slept fine on the weekend when I was around...I hope my mom is actually putting him down at noon and no sooner, I believe her though. Maybe it is just teething.
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New question!!
So Jack has pretty consistently been sleeping 1.5 hours...usually going down at noon, waking at 6am'ish but quiet on and off until after 7am. He goes to bed usually at 7:30pm.
Is that the extent of what his nap will be? Or could I tweak things a little to try to get it longer? The wakings are a little weird too as he was waking after 7am for a while so the 6am is different. But like I said, he's not up up, he's pretty quiet.
Should I try extending him to 12:30pm? We're also looking at trying him out in a Montessori school for 3 mornings a week and if that happens he'd be having lunch right after and then napping which would take us to the 12:30pm time....suggestions?
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You may just have a 1.5 hour nap. The nap might get longer later, but not sure if tweaking will work. Certainly if preschool is going to move the nap to 12:30 you might want to start practicing that time zone so that he's not totally surprised by it when school starts. Preschool can be pretty exhausting at this age, so having a new nap time AND preschool might really be a double whammy for him.
Even if 1.5 hours is all he'll do right now, it doesn't mean that it will only get shorter from here. My son started doing 2.5 and even 3 hour naps after he hit age 3. So, if changing nap time doesn't make nap longer, don't despair! Life events could conspire to make him sleep longer at a later date.
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Thanks for the tip! The preschool isn't decided upon YET, but we are certainly looking into it so he could start as early as the next couple of months. He won't be there for nap time but it may make sense to have him have his lunch there then come home to nap or leave there at the end of the session 11:45am and then drive home to eat then nap so there's no way he's be in bed at 12pm. I'll definitely play with the times if need be. I guess 5-6 A time is okay at this age??
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6 is REALLY pushing it, but 5-5.5 is within the norm.
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Thanks, just thinking of the times when he'd wake at 6am and actually be up up...guess if they aren't consistent we'll be okay.
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Hello again ladies,
just posting a little update and a question!
So Jack is now a few days from being 20 months old and wakes generally at 6:30am or afterwards and I get him out of bed at about 7:30am. He has his first nap generally between 12-12:30pm (if he's teething and cranky sometimes 11:30am) but usually it falls at noon.
His nap is on average 1.5hours to the time, sometimes just over an hour, sometimes 2 hours, sometimes 2.5 hours but the usual seems to be 1.5hours.
I put him to bed at 6:45pm but sometimes he isn't fully asleep (he'll be quiet and then babble a little later) until 7:30pm.
Is 1.5 hours okay for total nap time? If I put him to bed later chances are it takes even longer for him to fall asleep so I don't necessarily think I'm putting him to bed too early.
Also, he starts Montessori/daycare for 3 x 1/2 mornings a week and at some point we'll be allowing him to stay for lunch which means by the time he gets home he may be napping at or after 12:30pm...at his age is 6 hours A time okay? Even if we don't let him stay for lunch by the time he gets home and eats and then naps it will be at the same time. Just want to be sure he should be fine at this age.
Thanks again for all your help!
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1.5 hours is fine. The range you give is what we see at this age.
6 hours will probably be fine as well, although at first he may seem extra tired from all lthe new stimulation. You may find with 6 hours A time + preschool that he may nap longer than he does now.
Sounds good!
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Just wanted to update:
so Jack has started to wake at 7am (which is a little better for mommy!) and he's going to bed mostly anywhere from 6pm-7pm (again, taking awhile in his crib soothing to sleep. The range has been large because ever since he started school (and started a cough/cold the same day) he's been napping less than 30 minutes. In the last week he's only napped longer once and it was just under an hour. That day he had awaken 20 min. in coughing and then actually went back to sleep. But all other days, he's soothing and falling asleep and he's only actually asleep less than 30 minutes...sometimes it seems like 15-20min. I know he's having a hard time adjusting to school so could that be it?
Strangely enough his nighttime sleep has not been disturbed, even the coughing fits from the cold so I guess I should be thankful for that. But I just really want to see him get a better nap. He's also napping a little later than usual because of daycare so could it just be an ajustment? Sometimes he cries when he wakes for a few minutes then settles. Sometimes he just starts talking so I wonder if it's new things he's learning, he's pretty advanced in speech as it is so being in that environment I think will only expand his vocabulary immensely. I also wanted to add that we usually leave him in his crib for about another hour for quiet time.
Please tell me this will change??
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would you mind putting this post in a new thread? We like BW members to be able to read along with other people's questions and this thread is getting pretty out of date now! :)
Just post your new link here and I'll be sure to help you! :-*
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Thanks I've been meaning to start a thread but didn't want to lose your great advice and figured the background might help.
Here's the new link!
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=155911.0