BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: marlowsmom on September 18, 2009, 22:54:32 pm
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My DD is 6.5 months old and has had a consistant NW at 5am for the 2weeks. I few questions.
Here is my night process:
715 bedtime-
no DF
2am awake BF
5am to 530am awake!!! From this point on there are two possible schedules for the day.
IF I DO GET HER BACK TO SLEEP...
Awake 630am
E 7 solids and BF at 815
S 915 ( I have to get my 3 yr old to preschool. My LO falls asleep in the car and gets transfered to the crib. She may sleep til 10am or 11am.)
The rest of the day depends on that first nap. The rest of the day is usually 45 min naps and about 2 hrs awake time between the naps.
E 530 solids
S 730 BF (I'm slowing increasing her bedtime to get her on schedule for the upcoming time change at the end of October. Previous time was 7)
E 2am
A 5am
IF I DON'T GET HER BACK TO SLEEP...
E BF at 7am
S 730 til either 815 or 9am depends on her
A
S 1130
A 1215
E 1230 BF
S 245
A 330
E 4 BF
A
S 530 - 615pm(maybe.. its been a struggle lately so sometimes no nap)
E 6 solids
715 bed and BF and
Should I try to drop any type of afternoon nap (the 530pm one)?
Should I DF at 11pm? I tried one time and she still woke at 2am but now I see that I have to do it for at least 4 days in a row.
Is the 5am EW from not enough A time between naps? She has been doing a maximum of 2.5 hour between naps for about 4 weeks now.
Should I increase her A time to 2.45 hours? 3 hours?
Should I try W2S for the 5am EW? How early should I W2S?
When she does wake at EW I hold her til she falls asleep which I now know is a prop. If she wakes ever in the night I go right in
and hold her. Even if she isn't crying I go in and pick her up. So guess now I need to leave her and only go in if she crying hard for me?
I've only started solids a couple of days ago so I'm not giving her solids 3 times a day yet. Should I? Will it help her "tank up" and
possibly help her sleep thru the night?
Any information would point me in the right direction. Thanks for reading my long post.
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Thanks Jane!
I'll switch the BF and solids around.
She will sometimes sleep for 1.5 or 2 hours. I used to hold her joints thru jolts so I can always do it again. I think it may be more of a timing issue. Is she getting to much or not enough A time? I do whatever I need to so that she gets enough sleep. If she has a long nap then I'll give her 2.5 hours until the next nap which usually results in a 45 min nap. Ever since she was 3 wks she has taken 45 min naps. I tried all the tricks and nothing worked to extend her naps. I just went in at every nap and held her until she extended her nap. One day she started taking long naps all by herself.
She doesn't use a dummy or lovie but in the last week has started sucking her thumb. Prior to that she never sucked on anything. She won't take a dummy. She ususally sings herself to sleep. She got sick about a 2 weeks ago. I don't know if was a cold or allergies but she still has a bit of a runny nose. Good news is this morning she woke up at 630 and I put her down at 915 and she slept for 1 hr 20 min. Maybe 2hr 45 min is the trick? Thanks for your help.
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I should clarify that she did wake at 5am and talked but I ignored her and let her be. She fell back asleep and woke at 630am. I was in a hurry when I wrote my last post.
You said that I should start considering dropping the catnap and go for an earlier bedtime. What bedtime would you aim for? You asked what time I would like for her to wake and 7am would be super cool but I'll be fine with 630am.
The daylight savings time is coming up at the end of October. My LO bedtime is 7pm but when the time change comes it is going to move back one hour to 6pm. Then I have a problem because this means her wake time will be 530am (that is if she wakes at her current time of 630am). Too early! So I'm prepping her by slowly moving her bedtime to 8pm. That's my goal and I have to reach it by the end of October.
I said she didn't have a lovie. She doesn't cuddle with anything in particular but I do have two small teddy bears that have been in her crib and within reach since just before she was 3 months old. I also have two soft blocks in her crib that she plays with. When I hear "lovie" I think of something that she is really fond of not just a toy in her crib. I guess by what you are saying, then yes, she does have a lovie. I just never thought of it that way. :)
Thank you for all your help. I have no one else that understands BW so when I have an issue I get all the wrong "advice"
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Will do with the lovie. She woke last night at 1245am with a stuffy nose but I was so tired that I didn't realize that was her problem. I made her bottle. After she finished I realized that she was stuffy so I gave her saline nasal drops. She then spit up about half of her bottle. :( I put her in her crib and she fussed. She fell asleep but woke at 230am with a stuffy nose. I gave her more saline as I guess I didn't put enough in the last time. She went back to sleep but woke at 4 with the blanket in her mouth. I gave her a bottle and she took the whole feed. She went back down and woke about 645am. She had a rough night but she didn't wake at 5am so I'm hoping that maybe her crazy night may be enough to disrupt that 5am EW. She seems to be getting back to falling asleep by herself in her crib again. Thank God because I was afraid she had gotten used to me holding her to fall asleep. I did as you said with switching BF and solids. Even though she had a rough night I kept her up from 645 am to 925am so she is now down for her first nap of the day. I tried to hold her out for the full 2.45 hrs but she was so tired. I had her in her jumperoo and she was half asleep with her thumb in her mouth but still jumping. Fingers crossed for a long nap. Thank you Jane!
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Well she had 45 min naps all day long. Her first nap was 2.45 exactly from when she woke but she only slept 45 min. The rest of the day was a mess for her. There was 2 hrs A time then she had her second nap. She had 1 hour A time then her 3rd nap. After that she stayed awake from 3 til 7pm. We had guests over so I couldn't hold her to sleep longer. Our guests left at 5pm but that was because we had to jump in the car and go see my father in law because he had just gotten out of the hospital. I did the best I could to watch her for sleepy cues and laid her down accordingly. I just don't know how else to recover the day when she has a first nap that is 45 min. How much A time should give before the next nap when the first one is 45 min long?
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Well I woke this morning at 550am to the sound of my 3 year old crying. I looked at my video monitor and saw that my LO was wide awake but quiet. I let her be to see if she would go back to sleep. She tried but she was hungry so I fed her at 630am. She had woken up in the night at 115am to eat. I have no idea what time she woke this morning. It could've been 545 or 530. Regardless she didn't get to take a nap until 925am. I have to take my 3 yr old to preschool by 9am every day. Well needless to say she only took a 45 min nap. I thought that since she was so tired that maybe she would sleep 1.5 or 2 hours but no. It looks like a day filled with 45 min naps again.
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Yesterday I waited about 2hr 20 min and put her down for her second nap. She slept for 30 min. She jolts awake it isn't a gradual wake up. Anyway, I waited until 4pm which was about 2 hours A time and she slept 45 min. She went to bed at 7pm. She slept til 345am, had a BF, went back to sleep and woke at 5am! UGH. I thought that since she woke at 345am that maybe her cycle was disturbed enough that she would sleep until 630am. I left her up there and watched her on the video monitor. She rolled around and had her thumb in and out of her mouth but she became increasingly annoyed and soon was crying by 545am. I went up there and sat with her trying to get her back to sleep until 630am. At 630 I gave up and took her down stairs. She had BF and solids and I put her back to sleep at 745am. That was 2 hr and 45 min A time but she only slept 30 min. She woke at 815am and at 10am she started showing that she was sleepy. We went up stairs and it took me 25 min to get her to settle down in bed. She fusses, rolls around, and cries. She wants me to hold her. I stood outside her door and listened for the worst of the crying. I went in a picked her up when she got panicky. She cried as I held her. She calmed down to a fuss and she went back in the crib. She cried in the crib. I tried sh/pat, rubbing her back but nothing worked. I finally gave up and stood just out of eyesight by her crib. She finally settled after 5 min. Sort of. She's fussed a bit in the last few minutes. Her total A time between the last nap and this nap was 2hr 15 min.
What should I do for her EW??? I have to take her out of town for a weekend on Oct 17 and I have got to get this under control. Should I W2S at 4am or 430am? I'll have to do what I'm doing to get her to fall asleep on her own in the crib which is stand by her crib and pu only on desperate cries.
She is starting in the last 24 hours to almost get up on all fours and rock. Crawling is an part of the issue.
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Well she slept about 45 minutes for her second nap. BOOOOOO!
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what is AP? Accidental parenting? I tried the dummy even though she doesn't like it. I'm going to try a different one. I used an orthodontic pacifier but I will try a soothie. Its shaped more like a finger, cylindrical shaped, smooth. I just got her down for another nap after 2hr 15min A time. She was hungry after 3 hours so she had a BF and took 5 oz. I gave her saline for her nose before the BF and when she fell asleep I brought a pillow into her crib and propped her up on her back. I hope that works. She like to lay on her stomach but wakes with a stuffy nose. Shes only been downn 20 min and shes starting to fuss. Great...
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Ok she slept 25 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She's talking in her crib. I can leave her (which I will for a bit) but historically she ends up crying for me. If I go in now and try to get her to sleep she'll fight me and I'll end up bringing her downstairs after 20 minutes.
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Alright, I went up there b/c she started crying. I held her and gave her the soothie pacifier. She didn't like it and turned way. Eventually, she gave in and took it but only to chew on it. After about 15 minutes of crying, kicking, strugggling and hair pulling she finally gave in. She fell asleep on my shoulder. When her grip on my hair released she laughed in her sleep. I'm watching her now and she is having a fitful rest. She's dreaming.
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Now she's awake after 45 min.
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I had given her tylenol and baby orajel. I'll give it to her again before bedtime. She doesn't chew on her hands all day though. I have one or many possible culprits.
Teething
Growth spurt
Allergies
Crawling
Need for additional nourishment.
I loaded her up with a big solids meal at 430pm and I give her the final bottle of the night at 7pm. I know its backwards but I'm wondering if she may not be getting enough to eat during the day so that may be why she wakes early. She may be hungry, since she typically eats at 2ish.
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I think teething is one of the main culprits. I had my first real sign last night when she woke at 830pm chewing on her blanket. I had forgotten to give her tylenol so I gave her the pain meds, teething tablets, and orajel. She went back to sleep about 15 min later.She woke last night at 215am for a feed but she wasn't super interested in eating. She took about half her bottle and I was able to put the soothie pacifier in her mouth. She went back in her crib and she layed awake for about 30 minutes. She was half asleep so I had to go in and pat her to sleep with the soothie in her mouth. She finally fell asleep at 3am.
I did W2S at 4am and she woke at 630am!
This am:
E 730 BF
E 830 solids and pain meds
A sitting on blanket with a toy then in her room looking at a book.
S 920 in the crib asleep!
A 1042 awake!!!
I'm also wondering if she is ready to give up her 230am BF? She wakes at the same time, usually takes the entire bottle (which is about 7 oz) in about 15 minutes. Last night she took 5 oz and it took her a while to get back to sleep. I know I will have to get her EW under control before I take on the elimination of the 230am BF though.
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I had another wonderful 1.5 hour long afternoon nap. She woke at 3pm so I will put her down for an afternoon nap around 515 or 530. I know it earlier than normal but she'll only sleep 45 min anyway.
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Thanks Jane. I have you to thank for any success. She had a bottle feed and then a solid feed one hour later for breakfast, lunch and dinner yesterday. She went down at 7pm and didn't wake at 2 am for a bottle. I woke at 4am to do W2S and she woke up! I held her for a couple of minutes,tried to feed her but she wasn't interested, and so I put her down. It took at 30 minutes to fall back asleep and she woke again at 545am. That is earlier than I would like but considering she didn't wake at 2 for a bottle I guess its pretty good. Today...
S 845 to 1030
E 1200
S115 to 245
I'm going to give her a bottle at 4pm and some rice cereal at 5pm. I didn't have a chance to give her a proper solids breakfast or lunch today because I took my 3 yr old to get a flu shot which took hours. I hope the night goes well. I'm going to continue to do W2S
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Hi Jane,
Last night went
S 7pm
Awake 1215- gave pain meds and she kept looking at the bottle and thermos of hot water I keep in her room for middle of the night feeds. I knew she wasn't hungry but I made it anyway. She drank 2 oz and got sleepy. She went back to the crib and fell asleep.
4am- I got up to stir her. I didn't stir her very much in comparison to previous attempts. I just moved her hand whereas in the past I've picked her up and moved her body.
6am - awake! Not a bad night.
I'm about to feed her some solids and then down for a nap at 845am.
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Thanks Jane! She had two 1.5 hr naps today. She's in great spirits. I'm going to keep her solids meals on track and I'll let you know how the night went. Thanks!
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Jane,
Well we seem to be on track. Marlow is teething like a crazy baby but she is handling it well. She has had consistant naps every day lately. Last night she got to bed a bit late (730pmish) and she STTN! I hope we continue on this path.
In order to keep the short naps at bay, would you suggest increasing her A time by 5 or 10 min a week until we reach 3 hrs of A time by 7 months? Thanks for looking at that post. That woman seemed very distressed. I feel for her.
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Marlow woke last night at 115am and 4am. When she woke at 4 I assumed she was hungry and she was. I didnt feed her enough solids last night. We did get a tooth in though! Marlow needs that NF if I don't feed her enough solids during the day.
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Jane,
Marlow is taking 1 15 min naps yesterday and this morning and now she just short napped me. A 45 min nap! UGH. Should I extend to 3 hr A time????
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Last night had its ups and downs. She had a CN from 515 to 545 then went to bed at 7pm. I put her to bed at her usual time since she had a CN. She woke at 9, 11, 1215 and 445. Each time she got on her hands and knees and rocked. She cried out enough that I went in and gave her tylenol and/or orajel. She seemed wide awake. I gave her the meds held her for a minute or two then put her back and left. The first time she cried for almost 5 min but the other times she cried for less than a minute and laid down with her thumb in her mouth. After the 445am wake up, she slept until 8am! She always wakes between 6 or 630am. She isn't sick, shes in good spirits and is eating right. I didn't feed her during the night. She had three solids meals during the day and a bottle previous to the solids meals. I don't think she was hungry. She did get one tooth in so far about two days ago. What do you think is happening? Just when you think you've got it all figured out, they throw you.
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Tylenol is a pain reliever/ fever reducer. Orajel is a on-spot numbing gel that I put on the suspect area.
Her pain meds went as follows
915pm- pain gel
11- tylenol and pain gel
1215- pain gel
445 tylenol and pain gel.
She had a nice long nap today, 1.5 hrs. She just went down for her 2nd nap at 310pm so no CN today. Thanks Jane!
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I understand. Different meds for different countries. What do you mean top up? Give them to her at 11pm like a dream feed?
She gave me another 40min nap for the afternoon. Is it because she had such a long night sleep and a good nap earlier? Thats my guess. She will stay up til 7pm; no cat nap for her.
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She woke at 1030 for meds and then slept thru the night til 6am. She just woke from a 1hr 40 min nap.
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Only problem is that she is short napping in the afternoon. She did it yesterday and today. She had exactly 2hr 50min A time between first nap and second nap. Is it time to push A time to a solid 3 hours and lose the catnap since she is STTN?
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Well she got a full nights sleep and I laid her down after 3 hrs A time but she short napped this morning.
She went to bed at 715pm and woke at 522 but went back to sleep and woke a 644am. She was put to bed at 935 and fell asleep at 945am. Since she got 11.5 hours of sleep last night I assume the night sleep has left her with the ability to handle more A time than 3 hours? Should I go for 3 hr 15 min of A time? Since she short napped I think I will keep her up about 2.5 hours. How does that sound?
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I'm shadowing you here MM because we are playing the same game. I did 2 hr 15 with Finn this morning because he is so OT and got a 2 hr 15 min nap...oddly lol. And then pushed his next A to 3 hrs and so far he's been asleep 1 hr 10 mins...so yeah I think there is merit to that theory. Push when good night sleep and a good nap precede it.
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UGH I would love it if she took a 2 hour nap right now.
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Heres the day so far
Awake - 645am
E 7am
S945-1015am!!
A 1015 til 115pm
S 115 to 2pm
I know that second A time was long and it wasn't my intention. I had a choice to p/u my 3 yr old early or at her scheduled time. I went for the early p/u but they were having a fall festival and it was running late. By the time I finally got back here she had fallen asleep in the car. She did STTN from 7pm til 645am.
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Yesterday as follows
E bottle feed 420am (she needed a bottle since she only had two solids meals the previous day)
E solids 8am
S 930 til 11am (1.5 hour nap)
E 3oz bottle 1130
E 1230 solids
S 2pm-245!!! (45 min nap)
She had a CN yesterday from 5 til 535pm. We left for dinner and she ate solids while we were out. She was asleep in bed by 8pm. She slept til 530am. I heard her stir at 430am. I wonder if her EW was due to her CN? Since she had a short nap from 2 to 245 I had to give her a CN in order to make it to her bedtime. This is her second time to wake at 530am. Should I W2S?
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The EW are back. She has woken up at 5am the past 3 days and her afternoon naps are hit or miss. She has 3 hours A time in the morning and then another 3 hours A time between the morning nap and afternoon nap.
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I pushed her A out to 3 hours and it worked for a couple of days but now I'm only getting 45 min naps all day long except for the last nap of the day. Then she wants to have a long nap. She seems to want to go to sleep after 3 hrs and it takes her about 5 min to fall asleep. The other day I gave her 3.5 hrs A time (after she STTN) and she slept 1.5 hrs. I've had an issue with NW but I believe that is related to the 45 min naps. She is having a habitual waking at 330am. She is also getting her second bottom tooth in and it almost through.
Here is her schedule lately:
630 awake
7 bottle
8 solids
930 -1015 sleep
11 bottle
12 solids
1245 - 130 sleep
330 bottle
400 CN- the last two days her CN has lasted an hour then I woke her
600 solids
730 bottle and bedtime
She woke and put herself back to sleep at 1230 and 215am. Since she woke at 215am I thought I wouldn't have to W2S for the 330am NW but she woke anyway.
I know the last feed is backwards but we have always had cuddle time in her room with the bottle. She does not fall asleep on the bottle and she usually eats about 5 oz.
Any advice?
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Just budding in here... :) I have always found that my daughter seems to work best with a shorter first A vs. second A (of course, this is before her current 40min naps came back!!) ie. now first A time is 2.5 hrs, which ends up with a good 1.5-2 hr nap and I'm going to try to push second A time to 3 hrs (2.5 and 2.75 still don't seem to work).
Good luck!
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Today I went back to 2.75 hours and I got a 1.5 hour nap. Then we had to leave for a road trip and she took another 1.5 hour nap in the car! She did get a CN of only 20 min at the max and she got to be late. We are at my BIL house and we went to dinner late. I didn't get her into bed at 850pm. I know she is OT because she woke at 930. Could be a long night.....
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OK thanks Jane. Much to my surprise she slept wonderfully and didn't wake at 330am (like she had the last two nights) or 5am like I expected her to. She woke at 630 and went back down at 925am. We've got a big day today so I hope she does well. Will do for 3 hour for second A time. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.
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Well after a wonderful nights sleep I put her down after 2.75 hr A time and I got a 45 min nap. That seems to be the issue. She gets a wonderful night sleep and she has a 45 min nap. She was tired but not super-rubbing my eyes- fussy-tired. It took her 5 min to fall asleep. Because of our big day she has had 45 min naps all day. :( I think I'll be able to get her to bed early by 7pm instead of the 730-745 I've been aiming for b/c of the time change. I am at the mercy of family and a potential dinner out. Luckily, my FIL wants to go eat ASAP and its 5pm. I'm all for that. Fingers crossed for good night sleep tonight.
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Oh there is no relaxing for me. At least not until she is STTN on a permanent basis and I can get her naps down. She didn't sleep well last night b/c she didn't have a proper lunch so she woke to eat at 130am. I knew I would have feed her and then she woke at 230am It took me 30 min to get her back to sleep. She was tired but wouldn't let herself fall back sleep. She woke at 630am. She had a one hour nap this morning in the car on the way home. We got home and I got her back to sleep after 2.75 hr A time. She was tired but she only "slept" 20 minutes.
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She had another 45 min nap yesterday afternoon. I put her to bed by 730am and she woke at 830, 930, 2, and then 530am! She was hungry at 2 which is odd since she had 3 solids meals and an additional bottle. Is she in a GS? I thought she would have been past it by now. She is in her first week of being 7 mo old. She has her 2nd tooth coming in and it is very visable in the gum line. I think in the next day or two it should break the gums. Shes going back to nap at 830. Its going to be a long day.
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I did have a good nap day. She slept 45 min, sh-pat, then 30 min for her morning nap and almost slept 2 hours for her afternoon nap. I was able to sneak in a 30 min CN since she woke at 245pm and had to go to 745pm for bedtime. I'm still working the CN until the time change at the end of the month. After that I'm going to work on dropping it. I hope I'm able to pull this again tomorrow.
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She STTN last night and I waited 3hr 15 min to put her down. She woke after 45 min but I was there to pat her back to sleep within 2 min. She slept 1.5 hours. I'm going to hold out another 3hr 15 min before the 2nd nap and hope for the best. I may not have to do a CN today if she sleeps 1.5 hours for her 2nd nap.
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UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Her second A time of 3 hours resulted in a 30 min nap. On a side note, I realized that she HATES Orajel in gel form. It numbs her lips, tongue, throat and gums. She tries to suck her thumb and she can't feel it. On that note, it took her 20 min to fall asleep and that MIGHT have something to do with her 30 min nap. I'm so frustrated!! She's going to sleep awful tonight.
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Well she went to bed at 730 last night and woke at 830 and 930 but that was ok given that she didn't have much of a nap in the afternoon. She did STTN but woke at 530 again. UGH. I will have to W2S yet again at 430 it try to stop it. I gave her 3 hr A time and she went down like a dream at 830. She got another 3 hour A time and had no interest in taking a nap so I gave her another 15 min and went back to her room. She fought me even though she was tired. It took me another 20 min to get her to sleep. She finally went to sleep and has been asleep for over an hour. That 2nd round of A time is confusing to me. She doesn't want to go to sleep. In total she had 3.75 hr A time before she fell asleep. She seemed OT when I was trying to put her down. Now I still have to fit a CN in before her bedtime of 745pm.
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Her first nap was 1.5 hours long as was the second nap. I hope to keep her on track. She is EW at 530am. I will have to do W2S at 430am in the middle of the night.
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I did W2S at 430 am and she woke at 6am. Well thats better than 530am I guess. Anyway, I did 3.25 hr A time this am and I got a 1.5 hour nap. She stayed at my MIL this afternoon for a nap and she only slept 45min. My MIL started to get her down at 130pm but she fussed and didn't go to sleep until 145pm and woke at 230pm. What is the magic number??!! Is it possible that she could go for a longer A time in the afternoon? Maybe 3.5 hours?
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Last night I set my alarm to get up at 430am to W2S and she woke at the same time. I didn't even have a chance to get up the stairs. It took me one hour to get her back to sleep. She was WIDE awake. She had a 1.5 hr nap and two 40 min naps yesterday. Today, I gave her 3 hr A time and then put her down for a nap. She slept 30 min. I put her down after 2.5 hr A time and got another 30 min nap. She wasn't showing any signs that she was tired before I put her down either time. I'll have to put her down at 5pm for a CN.
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Just finished reading through and have a few thoughts :).
Firstly I think the immediate issue is that second tooth cutting. My lo didn't handle his first 2 teeth very well - I assume that he just had no idea what was going on. It is really hard to judge A times and sleep patterns when they are teething as it is almost impossible to know isn't it? Were they OT or were they in pain? Usually it is a bit of both TBH as the teething makes a lot of them super tired.
I think your EW started when you started to try and move bedtime in prepartion for the time switch. I suspect the extra A before bed was too much for her and she started to get OT EWs. EW's are nearly always due to being OT at bedtime - so either a day of bad napping or too much A before bed.
I also think we do need to push out those A's to 3hrs and get rid of that catnap. I suspect that is contributing to the EWs now as well as it is starting to rob from nighttime sleep.
Have you ever worked out what short naps mean what? I mean for most 30 mins os OT and 45 mins UT. My DS has never done either like that. Here 37 min naps are the norm and they can mean either. I do get 30 min naps but they are often UT as well as OT. I never get a 45 min nap no matter what happens. I assume he just has a slightly dhorter sleep cycle than most.
I suspect once that tooth has cut your lo will handle more A quite easily as you are still using the same A's from the start of this post and usually after 4 weeks they have increased - so if she couldn't quite handle it then she should do now iyswim?
Pop you whole routine down today in EAS format including NWs etc and we can have another look.
Personally I doubt W2S will work as this doesn't seem habitual to me. By all means try - but the the wake times are variable and the issues teeth and routine based it isn't going to be effective.
Oh, and ANY nap transition seems to cause chaos for sleep, and NWs and EWs are very much the norm. Tends to happen for a few weeks through the 3-2, and the 2-1 is even worse ::).
Hop there is something useful in all of that :-* :-*
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Thanks Liz. Jane has done so much for me. She's been great. EW have been going on for quite a while. I do W2S and it works for a few days but then the EW come back again.
Here is a rough schedule
530 awake
630 E- bottle
8 E- solids
830 -10am S- sleep (I might have to sh/pat at 40 min to get her back to sleep the last week)
11 E- bottle
12 E- solids
1 -3 S- sleep ( past few days I've gotten 40 min)
4 E bottle
5 15 S- Sleep 30 min
6 solids
730 or 745 bedtime and bottle
Yes I know the solids and bottle are backwards at the end but we've always cuddled and had our bottle just before bedtime. She doesn't fall asleep on the bottle; she puts herself to sleep.
So you can see where my problem lies. Its a vicious cycle. She STTN and her only issue is waking at 530am. She woke at 430 am but that seems to be a fluke. I keep her A time at 3 hours but she still doesn't wake from her final nap until 3pm, that is if she has a 2 X 1.5 hour naps. Having her awake from 3 to 7pm is 4 hour A time and too long. I figured she needs a CN but I also know that sleeping after 5 can rob from night sleep. I give her the CN to get her through til 7pm b/c I figure she will be OT by 7pm and will have trouble sleeping.
Slowly increasing her bedtime seemed like a good idea in theory but apparently its a cause of some issues as well as the teething. We can see the tooth in the gum. I was hoping it would have been through by now.
Are you saying I should abandon the prep for the time change and just put her to bed at 7pm?
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Firstly the solids and bottle at bedtime are the right way round - babies of this age need a bottle before bed to STTN as they are not yet on enough solids to sustain them without. TBH my 13 month od still does it this way round as well. But when you are ding 4 bottles and 3 meals one of they will have to be the wrong way anyway :).
The reason the EWs come back is that it is a routine issue.
Can you just remind me how old she is now? Is it about 7.5mths?
Regarding the prep for time change - totally up to you since it is only 6 days away now - you could continue using the CN to get the later bedtime and see what happens when the clocks switch - but the danger is that she will be waking at 4.30am.
I think the CN is your issue and you need to drop it.
If your naps are all dropping to 40 mins then I think she is getting OT likely due to her EW. But I think the EW is due to the CN. We need to drop it really.
How long has your lo been doing 3hrs A for?
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Marlow is 7 months old. We have been trying the 3 hour A time for about 3 weeks. It worked on and off. Lately, I've been getting 1.5 hour morning nap and a questionable afternoon. Meaning I never know if she is going to sleep 1.5 hr or 40 min. I have no problem dropping the CN and putting her to bed at 7pm ASAP. My only question is won't she be tired if she is awake for 4 hours? If she wakes from her afternoon nap at 3pm and has to wait 4 hours to go to bed I would think she would be OT.
So do you think if I go ahead and put her to bed at 7pm and do W2S for 4 days to stop any EW will that get her back on track? If it does, then what do I do about her bedtime. It will be 6pm and she will start waking at 530 which once was 630 because of the time change. Do I then start pushing her bedtime? Normally, a quality night sleep for her is 11.5 hour of STTN. That is if she sleeps from 7pm to 630 am.
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I'm subscribing to this post. I too have a 7mo old who is still CN'ing and I just don't see how to get rid of it without having an OT baby. I'll be stalking this thread for a solution :)
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Stalk away, Oki! I was up for an hour in the middle of the night. I have got to figure out what is going on. I'm giving up th CN today
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Liz,
Marlow went to bed last night by 730pm. She had terrible naps yesterday due to a family outing so I expected the worst. Here was her night
S 730 (with a cryout at 830 and 1000pm both times she settled herself)
A 411am - 5am wide awake- gave pain meds and a bottle neither of which settled her.
S 5 -615ish
E offered bottle at 7 but she wasn't interested, solids at 8 but didn't eat much
S 915-1030
E 1115am bottle but not interested
E 1215 solids
S 130 in the crib but not tired, played then pooped, changed her and got her to finally settle on my shoulder at 2pm.
S 2 - 235pm 35 min nap!!!!
That is my afternoon situation. It used to be if I got her to take a good (1.5 hr) morning nap I was almost guaranteed a 1.5 hr afternoon nap. That just hasn't been the case lately. Does she need longer or shorter A time in the afternoon?
Now she has to go from 230 to 7pm before she can go to sleep? She is going to be way OT!! I'm so confused, tired, and on edge. Really on edge because this has been going on for one month now.
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MM with the not eating...she's still teething right? Finn has gone completely off food today and yesterday is when I could finally see the whitecap under the gum. I think all the A times cut way back when teething...I didn't realize by how much...when they don't cut back I think they start to short nap a bit, have restless naps and get OT, and all the NW add to the OTness. We have been doing the same for month and no chance of ditching the CN just yet.
Hugs to you and Marlow!!
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Thanks Wendy.
She is teething and the whitecap is very visible under the gum. She isn't just that interested in food today or sleeping for that matter. I don't know if I'm supposed to put her down early or at the same time. She just had a 40 min nap but I'm supposed to give up the CN.
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No no - don't ditch it on a day like today - you are totally right and you will have to squeeze another in as she will never make it.
I think that tooth is causing a lot of this at the moment.
We do need to ditch that CN but to do it we HAVE to nail that pm nap.
Usually they like shorter A's when the teething gets heavy.
So sorry I wasn't clear - hope you get this in time honey.
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Thanks to all of you. I think you all are my only line of sanity right now. This is all really getting to me. Its 415 now so I'm going to try to get her down for a CN. Should I shorten her A time until the tooth comes through?? I can't believe it hasn't come in yet because its so visible. Oh and she is officially a crawler now. She is making her way into the kitchen as I type.
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I'm also following this post I have similar issues although my LO is a little bit younger...
Hopefully we'll all find a solution to this soon!!!
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Hi Noemiesmommy. She's a cutie. I hope my long thread helps you.
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Alright, so last night my husband put Marlow to bed at 730. I was trying to get her to bed earlier but he has to put her to bed this week because he's never done it before and I won't be here for bedtime on Friday night. Here was the night and day so far
S 730pm
W2S 3am
A 610am
E 7 bottle
E 8 solids
S 9 -1020am(in the car then transfered to crib at 920am)
I tried to start to get her to sleep after 2.5 hr A time. That was a disaster. A complete mess. It took me over an hour to get her to sleep. She was not tired at 2.5 hr A time. She fought me. I tried pain meds, bottle, and cuddling, but she just pushed me away. At 3 hr A time she showed me signs (finally) that she was getting sleepy; she was rubbing her eyes. That was at 1:30 but I still didn't get her to sleep until 2pm. She was very OT at that point. She slept 30 min and I put her down 2 hours later at 430pm and she slept 40 min. She got to bed at 7pm. She started a new "trick" today, she is able to pull herself to her feet in her crib. I guess we have to lower it ASAP.
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we had our first great nap day in a long time, therefore we were able to drop the CN.
HEre was our schedule
6-6:30 babbled and then went back to sleep
7:15 A
E:
S: 10:15-12:15
E:
A
S: 3:30-5 put down later than had intended but we were out and about, thought for sure we'd end up with an OT nap, but had to wake him at 5! Maybe all this time he's been UT, not OT. hmmmm......
E:
A:
S: 8pm, much later than normal because of the late nap, but was ok because I've been trying for a later bed time for day light savings time.
He did wake at 5:45 then resettle, it is now 6:20 he's talking again but hoping he'll resettle again.
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well he was up for the day at 6:15. I know he wasn't over tired, he got more than enough day sleep, so why the EW and only 10 hrs sleep?
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Thats what I'm wondering. If Marlow STTN then its harder to get an afternoon nap. Which makes me think about counting how many hours she is getting in a 24 hour period. I also too wonder if Marlow is UT when I try to put her down for her afternoon nap. Today I'm going to wait for her to rub her eyes before I put her down instead of watching the clock.
Last night
S 7pm
A 920pm- 40 min to settle
STTN
A 520am
E bottle 7am
E Solids 8am
S 835 still asleep....
I also read on another thread a mod suggested that in order to quash the EW to put your LO to bed early. AS in 30 min early. If the EW doesn't go away after the tooth comes in then I may have to try that.
But I'm not doing anything until that tooth comes in.
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So just a quick update. She woke from her morning nap at 950 am and started showing sleepy cues at 1140am. She had the rest of her 11am bottle and was asleep by 1145am. Just waiting to see how long she sleeps. When it was suggested to seriously cut her A time I never would have thought to cut it by an entire hour. Lets see how long she sleeps.
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I was very surprised by Finn's drop in A time with these top teeth. And also with his attempts at crawling. If it ain't one thing it's another. Think we'll make it to their first birthday? Some days I wonder lol.
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Well she slept an entire 45 min but I expected that. She will go down for another nap here in a bit. I'm going to stick a bottle in her mouth and see if she give me sleepy eyes.
I hope I will make it through the first year. I'm sure a glass of wine here and there will help me along. ;)
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I'm going to stick a bottle in her mouth and see if she give me sleepy eyes.
I wouldn't use that as a reliable sleepy sign - a LOT of babies will get sleepy when feeding but it doesn't mean they are ready for a nap necessarily - just that the sucking and warm milk makes them think of sleep iyswim?
I think you are putting her down too early and her A time is nearer to 3 hrs - if you go too early she will take ages to fall asleep and be OT by the time she does.
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hey girls,
our naps are shot for today because we've been on the road sight seeing with my mother in law all morning, but I'm going to put him down at 3 and see what happens.
My mother in law also mentioned that my son was up a couple of times in the middle of the night talking and babbling ( I didn't hear him...poor mother in law that she's in the room next to him). Normally i think that I'd say he was OT, but surely with almost 4 hours of daytime sleep, and 12 hours the night before he was not OT. We'll see what tonight/ the rest of the day brings us :)
Good luck on teething MM. we are here too, but nothing too intense!
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LizJ,
Her 2nd nap of the day was 40 min so I put her down after 2.5 hr A time. As I walked up the stairs she started to rub her eyes. She went down much easier for all of her naps today as opposed to other days. Its 345pm now and she has been asleep for about 35 min. I'm hoping for a long nap but even if I get 45 min that'll be fine since bedtime is 7pm.
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WOW I did get a long nap. She woke at 430. Now the question is will she be up in the middle of the night wanting to talk.
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Marlow's mom, I think that I too will start writing down exactly how many hours he sleeps in a 24 hour period. Maybe he sleeps a certain ammt of hours per day, and breaks it up through out his day and night sleep. Sometimes he has long nights and short day naps, or vice versa. :)
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Hi ladies, I was just reading your posts and am wondering the same thing. I am new to this site and to the BW method of EASY (only 4 days in) but I have been tracking everything and even the total hrs of sleep in hopes to find a pattern or at least a balance in this chaos. We have been getting different nap times with the same awake times so I am still confused. I put up a fairly long post earlier this evening "sooo confused" in hopes that someone out there can help us. It seems my little guy likes to keep me on my toes. Yesterday we had 1hr 20min naps x 2 with an AM 30min cat nap and today only 25 min-30min naps x 3 - ARGGH!! So frustrating! :'(
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well, yesterday he had 1.75 hours of sleep during the daytime, and last night he slept 11.75 hours without a peep. That equals about 13.5 hours sleep total for the day. The good nap day he slept 3.75 daytime hours and 10 night hours so a total of 13.75 hrs total. Hmmm...maybe he sleeps between 13-14 hrs a day. I guess I'll keep charting and see.
Does between 13-14 hours of sleep seem normal for a 7mo old?
Mommy to a monkey, my son does the same thing. With the same ammt of A time, he naps all over the place. Frustrating, but the ladies on here are helpful and supportive!
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Yep sounds spot on. Finn is the same, usually about 10 - 11 at night and 3.5 or so during the day. In the book it says 15 - 18 hours until 18 months of age but then when you break it down it says this:
6-8 months
Two naps 1-2 hours each;
10-12 hours at night
So if you are getting the two decent naps and good nights then it sounds right.
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Marlow had about 13.5 hrs of sleep in the last 24 hours. The previous night she slept 9.40 + 2X 1.5 nap + 40 min nap. She did wake last night for about 40 min. There are two possible reasons for her waking. Either she had too much sleep yesterday for her naps (that 40 min might be a culprit but I don't think so) or I didn't give her a dream feed of pain meds for her teething so that might have been it too. As soon as she woke I waited about 15 min to see what she would do then I gave her meds and within 10 min she was trying to get herself back to sleep. I suspect the teething was the real problem. I'm going to do what I did yesterday and go by her sleepy cues for her naps.
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13-14hrs is pretty standard at this age, ideally closer to 14, but lots doing a bit less.
Marlowsmum - I agree either teething or having the long nap at the wrong time of day, but most likely teeth.
I think the fact you got a long nap after doing 2.5hrs after TWO short naps is more proof that the A's do need stretching. If 2.5hrs was right you would need to shorten the A after a short nap to get a longer nap and avoid OT. Does that make sense? For example, at one point when J was doing a short am nap and a long pm nap he would do 3.5hrs for a 45 min nap, and then 3 hrs before a 1.5hr nap.
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Hi LizJ,
Yes that does make sense.
Here was todays schedule so far:
S 730pm
A 2am-am (pain meds and she went back to sleep)
S 240am-615am
E 7 bottle
E 8 solids
S 915-1000am- (I suspect that I might have accidentally woken her up)
E 11 bottle
E 12 solids
S 1230-2 - I did have to do a little sh/pat at the 35 min mark
E 3 bottle
Since she did have one long nap I will have to try to get a CN out of her b/c she will never make it to bedtime. I'm aiming for 415pm ish for a CN.
So you think she needs a longer A in the morning? 3 hr 15 min? The thing is she falls asleep in the car b/c I have to take my 3 yr old to school by 9am. Marlow always falls asleep on the way home. This morning she had 3 hour A and fell asleep by 915am. Her morning nap is usually long so I've been trying 3 hour A time after her morning nap and I've been getting a short nap. Yesterday schedule was
A 530am
E 7am bottle
E 8 solids
S 830- 10am (A= 3hr Nap1.5 hr)
E bottle
S 1200-1245 (A= 2hr Nap=45 min)
A 1245 -3pm bottle and solids in there too
S 3pm - 430pm (A =2.5 hour nap=1.5 hour)
E 6pm solids
E 730 bottle
S 745ish
That stinking tooth is still not through! I can't believe it. Its like its taunting me from under her gums.
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I would stick with 3hrs A for now, especially with that daft tooth, and it will be easier for your school run anyway.
Hard to be sure on the second A yet - the 2 facts we have from what you wrote are
1) 2.5hrs is great after a short nap
2) 2hrs is not enough after a long nap.
Not all lo's legthen their A's as the day goes on - some stay the same and some even shorten a bit.
I still think 3hrs is roughly right and we just need to fine tune a little.
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Hi Ladies,
Well last night went as follows
S 7pmish
11pm- dream feed of meds
3am W2S and pain meds
A 6 awake
E 7 bottle
E 8 Solids
S 915-1015 (1 hour nap)
E 11 bottle
E 12 solids
S 1230-145pm (A=2.5 hr because of the earlier 1 hr nap)
She will need a cat nap since she woke at 145pm. I'm going to try to put her down at 415pm.
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Not bad ;).
I would guess 15 mins earlier for the first nap, and 15 mins later for the second nap, and that should be right :P. If only it were that simple hey?
I did find a 1hr nap left him more rested than a 30/45 min nap, so did need to touch more A after. Some mums find 1hr is enough to do the full A, but I didn't. Bit of a halfway house really.
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I took it almost as a 45 min nap. She didn't get a full rest but she was happy. I think I will be able to put her down at 4pm instead. She is already showing sleepy cues but it has only been a 1hr and 45 min. I've just got to take what I can get at this point.
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Yesterday her she got 2 X 1.5 hour naps. Since her last nap ended at 3pm I opted out of the CN. She went to bed at 7pm. She woke at 4am and it took me an hour to get her back to sleep. After I thought I had finally got her down, she woke about 20 min later, then 10 min, then finally fell asleep but only stayed asleep for 45 min then woke at 615am. She got a 1.5 hour nap this morning and so far has slept an hour for her afternoon nap. She is still sleeping. If she sleeps another 30 min then that puts me at 4pm. I'll get her to bed by 7pm. When dropping the CN does that sometimes cause disrupted night sleep for a few days or should I chalk last night up to the tooth that doesn't want to make an appearance?
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She will have gone to bed OT - but you were right not to do a CN.
You really need to do an early bedtime whilst dropping the CN, if she had gone down closer to 6pm you would have had an easier night with more sleep overall, and very likely the same wake-up time.
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Ok I'll be more than happy to put her to bed early tonight. She woke a lot from the time I put her down until about 930pm. She woke again at 530 this morning and she wouldn't go back down. Her middle of the night wake ups are random. Last night 530, previous night 4am, night before that 330am. There isn't any set time she wakes with maybe the exception of 530am; that one seems to be one with staying power.
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Hi MM, we are getting 11 hour nights and no NW with no CN and earlier bedtime. This weekend was pretty decent. Even had a 2 hour afternoon nap yesterday, almost unheard of. DH did W2S at 4:30 a.m. for 2 nights and he has managed to stay asleep until after 5:30 a.m. 3 mornings in a row.
I think it is true; once that CN is gone things are infinitely better.
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All4Finn, great news!!
When you say earlier bed time, what time are you putting him to bed?
I've been working on getting my LO ready for daylight savings time, and have been putting him to bed around 7:30ish and (for the past three days) he's been getting up at 7:15 (however today he was up at 6:15 and had a lot of NW),so I'd like to stick out the daylight savings change if I can.
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We tried a push out last week to 7:30 bedtime or beyond...it backfired and led to some bad OT. Finn just does not have that sleep phase. He needs to go to bed by 7 at the absolute latest. So we abandoned the worry about DST with support from some of the other ladies and just worked on getting the A time and naps right all day. In doing that we have managed to get our full nights back.
So it's really a trade off, Finn is an early riser so we just put him to bed around 6:30 in the hopes that as his A time increases and naps balance out he will start to work towards 12 hour nights. W2S was just a stab in the dark to see if it would make any difference. And something has worked because 5:30 is far more bearable than 5:00. In fact 2 days it was 5:50 but I say that quietly for fear of jinxing it.
Apparently the others have said that a lot of times LO's just adjust to DST automatically or you just figure it out when it happens, because it's a week away for us and a lot changes around here in a week lol.
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Ok thats good to know Afll4Finn. There should be a sticky about DST and leaving your LO bedtime alone. Oh well. Marlow woke at 530 this morning. I wrestled with her for almost an hour to get her back to sleep. She was tired but not tired enough to stay laying down. That is one of her biggest problems. If she wakes early or just wakes in the middle of a dead sleep the first thing she does is put her hands down and pushes herself up to a sitting position. She is still asleep when she does this most of the time. If she stays sitting up for too long then she actually comes too. Since she woke so late and I have to take my 3 yr old to preschool she didn't get to bed til 930am. My only hope now is to go to her room and shpat her back to sleep. She will surely wake at in about 30 min. Never fails.
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hmm....something to think about. We'll see how today goes with the bad night and EW. I'm getting ready to go and put him down now, who knows what we'll get. Lately I get one good nap a day, which sometimes means that we can avoid that CN, but not always :)
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Wendy is right - once the CN is gone it really does get a lot easier - we had a great time until 11mths when the 2-1 came around. That is pretty tough as well ::). Actually - a lot worse!!
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today has been great :)
A:6:15 (EW after a few NW)
E:
A:
S:9:10-10:45 (woke up at the 30 minute mark, fussed for 20 minute, fell back asleep)
E:
A:
S: 1:45-4:00 (woke at the 30 minute mark, fussed for 10 minutes and fell back asleep)
No, CN, yippee!
Can't quite figure out why he wakes at that 30 minute mark. I think his sleep cycle is shorter than average maybe? He never wakes at the 30 minute mark crying, but he does wake crying after his nap is extended. Why in the world would he do that?
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That is pretty tough as well Roll Eyes. Actually - a lot worse!!
Noooo...*covers eyes with hands*
Don't say it lol.
Better start reading that 2-1 thread now since time has a habit of evaporating before my eyes.
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Alright any idea how I handle the issue of her waking and sitting right up in bed? She doesn't lay down instead she sits there and starts to cry. I end up having to go in there and lay her on her belly so she goes back to sleep. I'm sure part of her problem is that she knows I will come in there and I go in there b/c I want to go back to sleep. I must confess I go in there almost as soon as she wakes now b/c I know she won't lay down and go to sleep,she won't lay down and go to sleep b/c she knows I'll come in there. I'm stuck in a vicious cycle. How am I supposed to crack this one? I used to be able to lay her in the bed and she would sing herself to sleep but then she got sick and all that went out the window.
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Could you try putting her to sleep on her back? My LO sleeps on his tummy too and I don't think he likes it on his back. I had a similar problem of every time I put my LO down he would spring up on all fours and crawl like crazy to the end of the crib. I had to keep PU/PD so he would stay lying down. Now I have the problem of him pulling up and standing at the edge of his crib crying....he can't put himself back down yet so he is stuck there crying until I come back in the room to lay him back down....I swear I think he knows this too.
My DH put him to sleep last night on his back and he seemed to do ok.
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She's a belly sleeper for sure but she will only sleep on her back if she has fallen asleep on the bottle. Now when she sits up I don't pick her up but I do try to shpat in the crib. Most of the time she wants me to leave my hand on her back while she falls asleep. I did stand there for a few nights especially in the middle of the night b/c I really want to sleep. As of tonight I gave her the last bottle of the night and she didn't fall asleep on the bottle like has always done. I got her into bed by 7pm but she didn't fall asleep until almost 8pm. She is still restless. I've been doing some W2S the last few days because she kept waking at a variety of times but tonight I'm going to leave her be and see what happens.
Well last night went better than I expected. She woke once at 230am (I think) and I let her be. She put herself back to sleep within a few minutes. She woke at 545am which is fine with me for now.
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We had a good night lsat night too...he was in bed at 6:45pm and asleep by 6:50pm....only woke up once at 3ish and I BF him (only one side though as I am trying to wean him off of this too). He woke up at around 5:30 but seemed to doze until 6am where I decided we could start the day. I probably should have let him fuss a bit longer because he wasn't crying or anything yet. I BF at 6am and gave him his solids at 7am (didn't eat very much) and this morning he seemed to be tired at around 7:30am which doesn't make sense but he really wanted to BF again so I let him but I am going to keep him up a bit longer and try to stick to the 2.75-3hr A time and see what happens...wish me luck! I think he is still trying to nurse himself to sleep, like we used to, but I haven't done that for about a month now.
I have decided as well that with the early wake ups we are just going to get up for the day now as long as its 6am or later.
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Can she lie back down herself yet? Or crawl?
I think it is perfectly acceptable to lie her back down until she learns how to do it herself - or until she works out that is what she needs to do.
Developmental milestones are a pain for sure - and PD is the way to deal with it.
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OH its OK that I go in there and lay her down?? Oh good. I thought that I was creating a problem. I am limiting my time that I stay in the room.
Last night she woke at 830pm and I asked my husband to go up there and lay her down. We have a video monitor. He got all the way up to her crib and she did a faceplant. It was so funny. He didn't even lay a hand on her. She took one look at him and went face down. He walked out and she sat up so he did have to lay her down.
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LOL that's funny....yeah I continually have to lie my LO one down because he tries to crawl or stand up - so frustrating. Sometimes I think they are smarter than we are!
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She was in bed by 715pm and it took her about 15-20 min to fall asleep. That is better than the previous night which took her about 45 min to fall asleep. She was OT b/c she short napped her two first naps of the day. Her final CN which started at 4pm ended in me having to wake her at 5pm. She fell asleep at 735pm, woke at 830pm cried, fussed, but didn't want me to hold her. She just wanted to fuss. She woke again at 925pm and I left her in there to fuss, which she did for about 10 min and went back to sleep. She woke at 522am which she has done 2 days in a row now, and did another face plant in the crib and went back to sleep til 640am. Not a bad night all together. Now I hope for a long nap today since I'm leaving her with my sister for a few hours while I get my hair done.
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Nice! Enjoy the special attention to yourself :)
We are having a ROUGH day after a rough night...3 NW's and EW at 5am so thats when we started our day cuz he refused to go back to sleep after 45min of me trying everything. He has had a 30min nap this AM from 8-8:30 after no prob's going down and now he fighting his next nap like CRAZY. I about finished with this...its causing us way more stress than before and I hate to admit it but I am starting to resent my LO and not enjoy life with my little boy anymore :(
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hey ladies, since our kids are about the same age, and struggling through the same things I was wondering how long your A times are.
My morning A is 2.75 hrs and lately he sleeps for about 1hr 30 min (waking/stirring at the 30 min mark) and then in the afternoon I put him down at the 3hr mark without a tired cue in sight. For the past two days that nap has been short. Yesterday he woke at the 30 min mark, and then today he woke at the 50 min mark. I can't decide if it's OT or UT. I am also trying to decide as well if he has a shorter than average sleep cycle. He always cries out or stirs at the 30 minute mark, but during the morning nap almost always goes back to sleep, but only sometimes on the afternoon nap.
So what have you found to be your magical A time?
Off to go and get him now. Hmmm..... wish that last nap would extend :)
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We are still trying to figure it out...once I do I am afraid he will be ready for more awake time :(
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Mommy to a Monkey hold on!!! It will get better. Post your EAS schedule here for everyone to see.
I have the same issue right now. My nights havent been all that bad the last two nights. Her morning nap is 1.5 hours long after 3 hr A time but her afternoon nap is 45 min. If she sleeps well at night then I can't seem to get that afternoon nap down. My sister got her down right at 2pm today but she only slept 45min and no CN! My sister couldn't get her down for a CN. I'm thinking I'm in for a rough night.
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I am trying to figure him out, it used to be so easy when I would nurse to sleep but I refuse to get back into that habit again because it became a HUGE prop. Plus he co-slept with us so he thought he could have my nipple in his mouth at all times - argh! I guess we have made some sort of progress but I feel like I don't have much patience anymore. This morning he had a 30min nap after what I thought was the same A time as yesterday morning. We went out shopping since I needed to get out of the house (haven't really gone anywhere since we started this routine which isn't helping my sanity). He was yawning the whole time and fussing to be fed....how do you know if its a growth spurt or of he is regressing and trying to go back to the old ways?! He nursed 7 times yesterday (was about 4-5 when I started tracking everything) plus ate two huge meals for his solids. Dinner last night after BF was enormous - 2 cubes of cauliflower, 1 cube of green beans, 1 cube of pears PLUS half of a banana! Where does he put it all and he is not a big kid either. Today he nursed another 7 times and had multiple NW last night. He was up at 5am this morning (yuck!) and fought bedtime tonight until around 7ish and wanted to feed constantly. He did have a 1hr 15min nap this afternoon. He just woke up actually about an hr ago and desperately wanted to eat again. I thought the growth spurt was at 6mos not 7mos 1wk.....totally confused. I fear we are in for a LONG night too with all of this going on, plus I just saw he has ANOTHER tooth coming in at the top, along with the 2 bottom ones which have come through earlier this week. Maybe it was a bad idea to start EASY at this stage in the game, its definitely making it harder on my LO.
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Holy schmoly he eats a lot! Wow. Where does he put it? There is a super mod on here named LizJ. I'll ask her to look at your post. She will want to see a EAS format so try to get something down. Isn't he eating 3 meals a day? He has another tooth coming in? Well, that will make everything crazy. You have to take it day by day. Look at this post that I've had going for over a month now! I've had lots of help here in the past so I l know this will work out. Another mom said the 6-8 month ages are really rough.
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Yeah I am just realizing now that these months have been much harder than the previous ones and I should have had a routine in place from the get go. Oh well....lets hope after 8mos things start to change for the better, he didn't really fight naps or bedtime before (however I would BF him to sleep).
He was up last night about 1.5hrs after he went to bed wanting to nurse again, I let him (probably shouldn't have) but he seemed hungry. He slept until 12:15am and wanted to eat again (maybe a mini growth spurt?) Then again at 2:30am and I started to feed again and he just sat there with boob in his mouth not eating so I plopped him back in the crib...he didn't like that very much. He woke again at 4ish and was definitely hungry so I BF....ended up waking up at 6:15am for the day and HUNGRY?! How can it be? And normally he goes right back to sleep after NW and I BF without a fuss but he screamed for about 30sec and then fussed for another one or so and went back to sleep. What is going on with him?
Yes he is eating 3 meals a day, although I have noticed lately the morning meal he is not that hungry for, probably because he is eating so much at night lately. I think I will gauge how hungry he is today and then figure out tonight if I will BF again that many times...I kind of think he is doing it for comfort again which I have heard they do when they are teething.
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I have multiple theories.
He may not be eating enough on the BF. Is he draining both sides when he feeds?
He NW to BF b/c he is used to it (habitual waking)
BF is a comfort to him.
His night sleep is wonky b/c his day sleep is wonky and his day sleep is wonky b/c his night sleep is wonky.
He may need more weight in his food such as rice cereal.
Has he ever gone to sleep in his crib w/o the breast for a nap? Bedtime is different (IMO) b/c I believe at bedtime you have melatonin working on your side.
As for Marlow I'm starting to panic about the upcoming DST change. She has woken at 522am for the last 3 days and I don't know if I should W2S? put her to bed earlier and that will solve the EW or both?
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Marlowsmum - where are you up to in terms of A times and naps?
Mommy-to-a-monkey - glad to see you are getting some help off Kirry on the EASY board.
Have you ladies all found your Birth Clubs on the EASY board? It is a great place to chat to people who have lo's the same age and are often facing the same issues and challenges. Often dropping the CN, EWs and weaning night feeds as this tyoe of age ::).
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Her A time is as 3 hours for the morning and the afternoon is anyone's guess. This morning she woke at 522am and wouldn't go back to sleep. The last few days she has woken at the same exact time but put her thumb in her mouth and went back to sleep. She started her day at 522AM and fell asleep in the car at 9am. She slept until 1015am. I went to get my 3 yr old early so I could get her in bed by 115pm. She didn't fall asleep til 145pm. She was tired and stood in the crib screeching, talking and have a blast. I finally had to go in there and hold her. She closed her eyes within 3 minutes and I put her down. She's been asleep for over an hour so I expect her to get about a 1.5 hour nap. I did have to stand by her crib at the 35 min mark and place my hand on her back b/c she opened her eyes and moved a bit as I anticipated. She stuck her thumb in her mouth and fell back asleep. So should I put her to bed at 630pm tonight?
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That sounds like a sensible plan.
I would guess her 2nd A really is very similar to her first ;)
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Marlowsmom - yeah I have been giving him rice cereal since the beginning and he normally gets that at night mixed with a veggie and in the morning he gets oatmeal mixed with fruit. I try to keep the lunch just strictly veggies, fruit, etc, whatever I happen to thaw out for the day.
Yes the BF is definitely a comfort for him and we have been working on that for the past month. I have been putting him to bed awake after a feed if he is hungry. I am pretty sure he is draining both sides but sometimes it is so often that I don't even feel full enough so I can't tell. He seems satisfied afterwards too though so I assume he is full.
The odd couple of nights he slept for about 8-9hrs he woke up for food (out of habit I think though too) and he couldn't even finish both sides...he was sooo full...he kept trying to go back for more but remembered he was stuffed to the brim. It was so cute.
Today was fantastic actually! I really hope I have cracked the code on this kid ;) It looked like this:
(Mind you we had 2 NW to eat but whatever!)
A - 6:15am
E - 6:30am BF
E - 7:30 oatmeal with apples
S - 9:10am - 10:10am (1hr)
E - 10:30am - BF
E - 12:30pm solids (cauliflower and some pears) (later than I had hoped because we had a mom/baby class)
E - 1:20pm - BF - not too sure why but I had put him down for his nap at 1pm and he freaked out for 15min, like hysterical crying. I fed him in a different room (he knows the rocking chair is nighttime nursing) and he went down drowsy but awake. Is that ok?
S - 1:25pm - 2:40pm (1hr 15min)
E - 4:15pm - BF
I am going to finish off the night as follows and hopefully we are on track :S
E - 5:15pm - solids
BEDTIME - 6-6:30
I hope it works out and he stays asleep for DH, my sister and I are going to the show for some much needed time ME time ;)
LizJ thanks for the tip, I will definitely go check out that section!
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MTAM- I'm happy you had such a great day. Stick to the 3 hr A time. I bet more than anything those NW aren't really to eat; he just likes to see you. Pick which time he is least likely to eat as much and try W2S for a few days.
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Yes I think you are right...last night he stayed asleep for DH - yes!!! But he woke up at 2:15am which I know is out of habit now because he didn't seem as hungry and only took one side again and went back to sleep without a problem. Of course he woke up at his usual 5-5:30am to eat and went back to sleep for about 15min and woke up again. However, I think he wanted to start the day because he was in bed at 6pm and asleep by 6:15pm last night and that is normal for him to sleep for 11hrs at night ....I really don't want to start my day that early but if it falls into his A time/nap schedule then its fine by me. I guess we just start stretching out bedtime as they get older and can handle more A time? I am soooo worried about the clocks changing back this weekend!! He is going to be in bed at 5pm and up by 4am?! ahhhh!
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MTAM we are in the same boat. I too don't want to start my day at 4am but I think that might be the case. The most Marlow has ever slept is 11.5 hours. I set my clock to do W2S but I hit the alarm and fell back asleep. She did wake at 545am instead of 522am but she might have gotten up at 522 put her thumb in her mouth for 20 min and then decided to wake us up. *sigh* I'm going to do W2S again tonight and hope for the best. Supposedly, the LO change their sleep time on their own after DST so we'll see.
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Ok fantastic...I hope my LO re-sets his own clock!
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Alright, this has been going on for tooooooooooo long. She is still EW at 530
S 7pm (Ive tried earlier in order to combat the EW but no luck.)
A 522am (usually she doesn't go back to sleep; sometimes she gets her thumb in her mouth and goes back to sleep but that is rare.)
E630 bottle
E8 solids
S 915 (asleep in car from bringing 3yr to school)
A1030
E 11 bottle
E 12 solids
S 130pm (should be 115 but gotta pu the 3 yr old)
A 3 (with a little shpat)
E 3 bottle
E 6 solids
S 7 (usually but lately 630 b/c of the 3 awake time and trying to eliminate the CN)
Now what dawned on me in the middle of the night is if that maybe she is hungry. Technically, she doesn't NEED the calories but I wonder if that is the case. I see so many other LO that are the same age that have a feed around 5 or 530am. She is 7 mo 3 wk about 17 to 18 lbs. Thoughts? Should I give it a try tonight? If so, should I wake her at 5am for the feed?
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How many oz is she taking per bottle? My first thought is that she is not hungry - it might be habitual hunger. Like the way we get hungry at lunch hour etc. The hunger doesn't wake them, but then since they are awake they decide hmmm, I could eat now.
Have you tried W2S at like 4:45? I think you have already but just revisiting it.
Some kids are just early risers - it's hard but it's how they are wired. Finn is this way for sure. I really don't ever expect him to make it to 7 a.m. - but then again it's pretty much how I am wired. I am a morning person, not 5 a.m. mind you, but could always handle 6 or 6:30. Never had issues getting up and going to school or work. And I go to bed early. I am lucky if I ever see 11 p.m. Any chance Marlow could just be like that?
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She takes 6oz per bottle and doesn't usually finish it. I try to get bottle into her at 630, 11, 3, & 7. She eats 3 solids meals too. I don't think she is hungry because she hasn't fussed for a bottle but it was a thought. She hasn't had a bottle yet at 530 either. I don't want to start a 530am feed either if she doesn't need it. She used to wake at 630am which is much more bearable. I thought about doing the W2S about 30 min before her usual wake up or being in there and doing shpat while she stirs. I'm going to need to do something b/c a 430am wake up is out of the question. Right now she has been asleep for 2 hours which is unheard of. I'm amazed and now wondering how the pm nap is going to go. I want to try to put her down at 8pm tonight and then extend her morning out tomorrow.
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Well DST didn't go nearly as bad as I thought. Marlow went down 1 hour later and woke at 400am (used to be her EW 530am) I gave her a bottle and wrestled her down to sleep at 530am. She slept til 730am. So far she has adjusted to the DST. Last night
7pm bedtime
1030 sat up in bed but I laid her down
130am awake I gave her a bottle b/c she only had 2oz of her bedtime bottle. I knew she would be hungry.
430 awake but I left her there and she fell back asleep
6am awake and started the day
7 bottle
8 solids
925 asleep
I'm probably going to jinx myself but the last two days she gave me a 2 hour morning nap. Her second tooth FINALLY came in!!!!!!
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Ok I am at a loss again. The past 2 days I think I have the right A time with approx 3hrs before morning nap but then the afternoon goes really bad and he only naps for 30min. I then have to try to get a CN in before bedtime and if not then its early to bed. ARGH! He was showing tired signs about 2hrs after he woke up...but I didn't think he could be tired so soon after a good nap. Has anyone else experienced this? I was afraid of him being UT but I guess he is now OT - great!
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Hi there, yes their A time can decrease throughout the day. What's your routine? Finn is 7.5 months and has the same A time as his morning A time. Is he cranky after the 30 min nap?
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I got a 1 hr and 15 min nap today. Of course when I walked in her room after about 5 min she had pooped so that may have been a culprit. She fought me on the afternoon nap. She finally went down after 3hr20min total A time. She LOVES to stand in her crib so I'm guessing I need to put her in the crib about 30 min before I want her to sleep. I got her in about 15 min before and watched her pull her self up but then her legs got to tired and she kept falling. She was slowly letting go. On occasion she would lay on her belly but then she would pop back up again. She's going to bed early anyway. I read the link on 10 reasons why a baby wakes and one of them was that she is sleep deprived. She goes to bed at 7pm but she is usually OT by that point. After she goes to bed she wakes frequently, usually 1 hour after bedtime. I'm going to fry for a 6pm bedtime. She was having a 530amEW which is now a 430NW. I let her be and she put herself back to sleep. Part of her problem is that I go in there and try to get her back to sleep. I have to let that go.
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All4fin - yes he was cranky after the 30min CN this afternoon. Silly me didn't listen to his cues and watched the clock instead thinking "he couldn't be tired" but I guess sleep begets sleep right? Oh well tomorrow is another day and we will try again. Needless to say he was OT when he went to bed tonight because I couldn't get a CN out of him and he went to bed at 6:50ish. I REALLY hope he does not have too many NW's tonight because of this.
Our routine is still getting ironed out (just started over 2wks ago) and with the time change yesterday its throwing things off a little bit. However his EW ended up being a NW instead because there was no way I was getting up at 4am so we (yes WE because I felt horrible) had a bit of a cry and after about 40min he put himself back to sleep again and slept until 7am - FINALLY! :)
I did do the sh/pat/rub for a couple min but I could see it was winding him up more because he saw me.
Marlowsmom - yes we have the same problem too, I go into once or twice and I think that keeps him up longer so I have to let him be tonight as hard as its going to be. I give myself the 10-15min rule but I think he just waits longer. He is a smart cookie that's for sure! After about 20min of crying and knowing I was there I left the room for a break and went back in and he quieted right down after he was able to lie down and hold my hand for dear life while he tried to go back to sleep...it was so precious! Not sure if that/my arm can become a prop but I decided to sleep with a lovie toy that he had but never used and gave it to him tonight in hopes that my smell will be there for him to relax better.
Does your LO have a different cry for when she is standing in her crib and can't lie back down....I found out mine LO does. I probably should have invested in a video monitor or a two-way mirror LOL!
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MTAM Have you read 10 reasons (other than hunger) that can make a baby wake which can be found in the FAQs? I found that my LO is OT. Her bad naps have added up and she now has a sleep deficit which she needs to catch up on but going to bed early. Marlow goes to bed 3 hours after she wakes from her afternoon nap. Marlow is now battling a stuffy nose. Its the like that only appears when she lays down. Poor thing.