BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Jiinx on October 02, 2009, 07:45:56 am
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Hi everyone,
It's 3:45 in the morning, and my dd has been restless from at least 2:30 (that's when I woke up!). She's not "up" but somehow went from the 12 o clock position to the 9 o clock position and is making noises with her mouth like she's eating something. She's desperately tired as I heard so many yawns. She's obviously uncomfortable - anyone have experience with this? Is it her diaper? She's swaddled so tightly that if I unswaddle her she'll wake up..plus taking her legs out of sleeper etc. She doesn't do ssh pat so if I woke her it would be a pacifer to soothe her to sleep at this point or a feed. Her diaper hasn't bothered her in the past..just in the last couple of days is she moving around in her cot. How she got there without actually rolling is quite remarkable..her cot is raised off the floor so perhaps she slid there?
this leads to one ot baby for the day...
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Hi there, How old is your LO? Finn started 'the clock' from around 12 weeks too...we had to unswaddle him because it was hindering more than helping. Also he slept on a wedge and we had to remove it because he kept sliding down it. By the end of all this clock business he started sleeping unswaddled, on his tummy and the wedge was gone. Not everyone is comfy with putting LO on tummy but we found he slept better and was good for his reflux.
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hi again wendy :)
she's 13 weeks today. I do want to put her on her tummy but scared, obviously.
I find if I don't swaddle her she'll conduct her own orchestra and end up smacking herself in the face....how did you get around that??
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We didn't experience the 12 o'clock to 9 position issue but we started putting DS to sleep on his tummy since around 4 weeks. He hated swaddling and he jolted himself awake all the time and couldn't stay sleeping at all. We found out by experiment that sleeping on his tummy, he's very calm and restful.
We were, of course, concerned as everyone was saying you shouldn't do that. But since DS could move his neck since birth, and he saw that he could lift his head from side to side at 4 weeks, then we stopped worrying. With your LO at 13 weeks, u have less to worry about. Important thing is to make sure there is no pillow, soft toys or similar things present in his cot to avoid suffocation.
DS always hit his own face when he's tired. I guess it's like he wanted to rub eyes coz he was sleepy but couldn't control his fists yet hahaha poor thing just got shocked and cried.
Try watching her sleep in her nap while on her tummy and watches how she adjusts herself and moves. You will get a feeling of whether or not it's safe. Worse case is wait a few more weeks till you're confident, then try it. When DS learned to roll over, he then slept on his back hahaha but couldn't fall asleep on his back, though.
Lots of cultures practise tummy sleeping always. Or you can get one of those Aerosleep to increase ventilation.
HTH
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TBH once Finn was on his tum his arms went straight out in front and he didn't hit himself as when he was back to sleep. In the beginning we tried to put him on back unswaddled but that didn't work all that well. He did still have quite an issue with the Moro and it really didn't look all that comfy to me. So the first time we did it, DH flipped him on his tum after a NW and he slept about 5 hours solid lol. Scared the c**p out of us but he was fine.
As pp mentioned, we had nothing in the crib. Just his mattress with the fitted sheet on very tight. And we leave his ceiling fan on all the time. His room is the coolest in the house, usually between 20 - 22 degrees.
What you could do is try to leave one arm out of the swaddle so he gets used to it, a lot of people start with that. I think there are some posts on the Props board about this.
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thanks ladies :)
Koe2moe - I shall try it. With the winter months coming up though..not sure how to keep her warm as I don't want a blanket to suffocate her..our condo is cool as it is! I also want to tummy bc she may have acid and it might soothe her.
Wendy - I haven't let an arm out but when she manages to take one arm out she spends it rubbing her eyes and face even though she's asleep - I think it distracts her and doesn't allow her to get good sleep.
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I'm sneaking in on this discussion Jinx because as you know, I have the same issues..same age, reflux, swaddle, etc. I wanted to try tummy sleeping as well.
Does anyone know exactly what the risk is? is it that the LOs will have their face down in the sheet and not breathe properly and yet be unable to move? I guess I just don't get the whole air circulation concerns sometimes...especially when its recommended not to use bumber pads yet bassinets, which are much smaller and have fabric all the way round, are ok. Even so, I still follow the advice because I figure someone knows a lot more than I do!
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Jlinx
We use sleeping bag. No need to get special brand ones, but of course you can just that they are expensive :P We have some local brands which are practically some bag shapes things. If you want I can try and show u some photos. But there are a lot such things in the market. Try searching for baby sleeping bags.
Tanya
Yeah all the concerns about soft stuff in the bed and tummy sleeping is to minimise the chance of SIDS or cot death. Nobody knows what really caused it but at least preventing the chance of suffocation helps. Try searching about it and there must be some good explanation out there :P
sorry i'm just too tired now... if u want more information, i can try again tomorrow.. just let me know
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My twin girls were swaddled until they got old enough to wriggle their way out of the swaddle, but one of them really hated having her feet in so I would leave her feet out and just swaddle her arms. Then when she learned how to roll over at 3 1/2 months, she started sleeping on her tummy. If your DD is hitting herself in the face, you could try just pinning her arms down and putting the swaddle around her torso while leaving her legs out. That way she has enough freedom of movement to get comfortable without having to squirm but her arms can't flail around. My girls also started sucking their thumbs so then I would just wrap the swaddle around them with their arms and legs out (it was like a blanket) for a week or two to wean them from having it around them.
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thanks everyone :) I shall try all your suggestions.
Wow twins - twice the ssh pats and twice the nappy nightmares! Yikes..you're a soldier!
I'm going to try and google sleeping bags..
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Yeah, sleep training 2 is quite a bit different and at 6 months we're still working on it. They are in the same crib which makes things even more difficult, but we're working on getting another one. I love "nappy nighmares" -- that's a great term! In our house we call them "poop explosions!" I hope you get things straightened out with your beautiful baby girl!
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lol @ Aleksandersmom!!!
We also call most things explosions in ours LOL... be it mess DH and I create LOL
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hey it's me again ladies it's the wee hours of the morning...
*sigh* so she hates being swaddled - she cries when I wrap her up. I tried tummy time when she was drowsy. I placed her on her tummy and she just lifted her head and started crying. However, she can sleep on me with her head on my shoulder.Poor thing, I don't know how to get her comfy.
Also - for the ladies who started unswaddling their los - how did they know it's bedtime/nap time? My lo used to get drowsy as she got swaddled..do you just spend more time on the winddown?
I have one arm out of her swaddle (more like she fought it out) - but she keeps rubbing and scratching her face - is this normal? does she get "used" to being out of her swaddle and stop attacking her face? Aleksandersmom - going to try leaving her legs out tomorrow night and see if that helps. :)
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Wow hugs. We had to wean the swaddle early because he escaped from all of them, including the Miracle Blanket. Plus he moved around the crib so much it just seemed pointless. However, I was still swaddling his lower half for naps until recently - until 6 months. Naps and night sleep are different animals. For naps we needed swaddling, white noise and a good wind down. For bedtime it is bath, bottle, bed and no issues really unless he is OT.
Getting used to her hands is normal and developmental - she will get used to it but it does take them time. One day she will be like 'hey look I have HANDS' and then they start to understand what they can do with them.
If her hands are still an issue I would try the top swaddle legs out...but then she will probably still end up doing the clock because their legs are strong and usually take them where they want to go. They start to learn how to push off with their little feet.
It's hard and sometimes cold turkey is the best way because it speeds things up a bit. Kind of like pulling off the Band-aid/plaster all at once :-)
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Jiinx - we things about your questions (in no order apart from the order they come into my head!!) ...
.. the sleeping bags are called GroBags (thats the company who started them) and are fantastic once they stop being swaddled
... babies rub their eyes and pull at their ears when they are tired which is probably what she is doing
... my DS used to be a nightmare to get to sleep but now he can roll he likes to sleep on his side (and I wonder if he would have slept better when young if we had done that)
... I know they recommend sleeping on their backs, but when I was small they recommended sleeping on tummies, and it changes from time to time
... think once they learn to roll a bit they do tend to end up in funny positions (DS is almost 9 months and still does!), that is why grobags are so good as they are still covered and blankets dont go over their face, etc
.. at your DDs age they don't really like their tummy as their heads are so heavy, but over time they find it easier. My friend bought something to lie her DD over to encourage her to lift her head, etc but it was a waste of money .. when they get stronger (and more in proportion) they do it naturally! As long as she doesn't spend all day on her back it is fine (sure you will have her on your knee, etc lots so her head will be fine!)
.... my DS stopped being swaddled as he used to be so strong he always broke out of them so had to just stop. He used to flap like mad going to sleep (even if dozing on me, then laid down) but he was 4 months so I used PUPD with him (with advice from forum, of course) and I stopped being a prop to get him to sleep (he would then waken up lots in the night as I was cuddling him to sleep so he expected me there whenever he woke) and he started sleeping well again.
Finally, you will get there! I used to never get DS to sleep during the day without sooooo much stress but now he just lies straight down and falls asleep (which I thought would NEVER happen)!!! Just think, when they are teenagers they wont ever get out their beds!!!
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thanks wendy and ftm, I'm so grateful for your responses and your two cents. It seems like nap times are going into the ot hole as she's getting frustrated and I'm getting frustrated.
wendy - i'll try going cold turkey..I unswaddled her and she kicked around for awhile and then she gave up and cried. I don't think she knows it's "sleep time" unless she's swaddled but she hates it..so I walk with her and shh her until she's groggy and then quickly wrap her and off to dreamland she goes. She's definitely pushing with her legs ;)
FTM - thanks..I'll check into the sleeping bags. i wish she could even sleep on her tummy but that'll take time I suppose.
Almost 3 and half months..so PU/PD is a few weeks away. Honestly, she's great to sleep and usually stays asleep and if she cries then I ignore her and she goes back to bed. Lately she's been screaming her head off when she wakes up. *sigh* One step forward, two steps back, no? hehe
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well last night she had her legs out of the swaddle and she always managed to take one arm out even though I reswaddled her after df. She seemed okay..she woke up at 4am starving though and polished off the milk in my breast..and went to sleep until I woke her up at 7.
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That's fantastic - she will probably keep escaping out of her swaddles now but it is good that it didn't bother her and she still managed to sleep! Will just keep getting easier and easier :)
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hi ladies,
so again, writing in the wee hours of the morning. LO made a mess of her swaddle, kicked her way from 12 o clock back to 8..took her arms out of the swaddle so she could be completely free and she cried. picked her up quickly and put her on my chest..she fell asleep..then i transferred her into her crib on her tummy. she's so still that I'm checking her breathing every two minutes..oi I'm so nervous that I'm probably not going to sleep. there's no sheets or blankets..
they can't sleep on their face, can they?? her neck is quite strong now...
why am I so nervous about this
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that's only normal because of all those crazy warnings against tummy sleeping. We also did that LOL... when DS could continue sleeping on his tummy, we were really scared LOL..
I think it's time to move onto sleeping bags of any kind. Get thinner ones if weather is warm.
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oh it's getting cold in ontario :( she's still quite unsettled...they still move around a lot on their tummy, hey? she looks like a turtle on their back (in this case on her tummy)
sarah
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Yes, I miss that DS no longer does his turtle impressions! Def get a grobag as soon as you can (you get them in different togs, which are not the same as adult ones - think the warmest is 2 tog, which does for the cold, check www.grobag.com (I think!!)).
When DS sleeps on his tummy (he does it himself - he is 9 months old ... today :) ) he puts his head to the side.
Hope you both got some sleep. When she goes to sleep on you does she then waken a lot in the night? I found that is what DS did and why he started wakening a lot. I do it sometimes if he (okay, both of us) is exhausted but it is definitely worth persevering with shush pat (or PUDP when over 4 months) for a few days.
Keep us posted ...
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nm she woke up :( woke up the same time yesterday too...she won't even pacify to sleep. guess i'll feed her
i actually never really had to sleep with her. as she gets older..she's getting more unsettled. no she never 'woke up'...just unsettled from 3-7. I used to be able to bank on her night sleeping..now that`s going down the pooper too.
ssh pat doesn't work all too well...not like the suckling reflex...she'll just listen to me with eyes wide open if on my shoulder or if in bed she'll just cry and get angry
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I do think you need to get rid of the swaddle now. It's hindering more than helping at this point. We still used the swaddle for calming and then putting down in crib, and then released him from it and used shush/pat to send him off. I know it's hard, some LO's just really do their own thing and don't conform to the 'rules' of BW.
Those sleep sacks are not a bad idea, they have them at Toys R Us. We had one but he didn't like it either. He really just wanted to be on his tum so we let him. I know it's scary though. Our paed was very reassuring that Finn would be fine so we had support about the tummy sleeping. We were reassured by his head control too.
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Hi Wendy..I wish you could come to my home! Truly! You've been all sorts of help..
I really am heeding your advice. She fought the swaddle at nap time..so I took it away..she moved her limbs for 5 minutes and then started crying. She just doesn't know it's sleep time or how to put herself to sleep with her limbs out. So I ssh pat her..put her down..she cries..pick her up..ssh pat her..put her down..cries..then I gave up and swaddled her and she was exhausted by this point and just fell asleep on my shoulder and I put her in the car seat. :( I wish she wanted to be on her tummy..I wish anything at this point..she doesn't want tummy either at this point. She kept lifting her head and making the cough noise which leads to crying.
sarah
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I can't remember how I used to get DS to sleep, sorry ... but he used to be a nightmare (I used to take him out for walks in every kind of weather just to get him to sleep, etc) and now he just goes into his cot and goes to sleep .... which I thought would NEVER EVER happen! You will get there too. Once they get a little bit older and their limbs flap less (when they are tired their limbs go into hyper-drive unlike adults') it gets easier. Hopefully someone will be able to offer some solutions.
Have you tried putting music on while she sleeps? DS listens to Mozart as it is the beat of a resting heart, which is meant to be reassuring (she might just sleep on her tummy on you because of the warmt/beat/etc and the smell of mummy, rather than preferring to tummy sleep?).
You could try cuddling her til she is almost (but not fully) asleep then lying her in her cot, and over time cuddle her for less? Not sure if that would work, but maybe a compromise to her sleeping on you and being in her cot?
I remember being determined that DS would learn how to sleep by himself at 12 weeks or he would not be able to. etc ... well he didn't and I had lots of stress, but eventually he learnt how to get himself to sleep .....
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To help mine know it was time to sleep, I would wrap them in a blanket like a swaddle and snuggle them firmly to keep their arms and legs from flailing, until they settled down and then I would lay them down without the blankets. Eventually they get used to it. One of my babies also used to try to sleep on her face -- it made me so nervous! One thing I've learned with 3 kids is that sleep training or teaching is a continual thing. Once you have it, they change. Just keep doing the best you can to teach her good habits and don't beat yourself up that the problem isn't "fixed" in a few days. We're working on sleep training the twins in our house and I've had them on EASY since they were born! They're now 6 months and it's a continual thing. PU/PD is exhausting with 2! Anyway, HUGS and I hope that she's been sleeping better.