BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: ~*Nicole*~ on October 07, 2009, 11:46:00 am
-
So recently DD has been having looong NWs or 5:30 EWs. or BOTH. Currently she is taking one nap most days, however, if she wakes early and I can squeeze in 2 naps I do try. She also recently started up with a runny nose/cough but the NWs and EWs have been going on since before this (although I am sure it is an additional contributing factor now). When she wakes at night it ranges from willing to lay back down and try to fall asleep (I will hear her do her mantra noise) and then cry out when that does not work after 10-15 mins. and we repeat a quick cuddle, lay back down to try again, etc. OR hysterical, standing, continues to cry while being held by DH or myself and very hard to settle down at all despite being comforted (pain? nightmare?). Often, once she does settle she grabs and clings to us and is hysterical as we near her crib....OR she is chatty and asks to get down and walk around which we don't let her do but she keeps fighting us and trying. The thing is recently it seems as though she tries but CAN'T fall back to sleep and that's when the hysterics seem to start. It seems like OT but she has been napping well and going to bed well in general. I'll post a normal day and yesterday (some days just don't work out the way you plan)
Normal:
6:30-wake
12-2-nap (or 2:30/45 as we got this past Fri. and Sat.)
7-bed (slept all night but woke at 5:30...same as previous night)
Yesterday
5:30-wake (went to sitters)
1-3-nap
8-bed (up at 10:30 or 11 -can't remember, until 1:30, up again at 4:20 and again for the day at 6:20)
DH and I both work full time and can't seem to figure out what we can do for the NWs. We are both tired and pu/pd takes so much consistent effort that I am not sure we can try, plus half the time she doesn't stop crying when held so there isn't a good opportunity to lay her back down.
Do you think I should try putting her back on two naps consistently for awhile? or ride out the one nap and do an earlier bedtime even if I am sure this will probably continue a 5:30 wake up? Just looking for a general consensus.
-
I say at the very least, attempt to do alternating days of one nap and two naps. I know some LOs do well on one nap at an early age, but she is still very young to be on one nap consistently. She's doing 5.5-6 hours some days before her nap, and even though it is a 2 - 2.5 hour nap, that same long A time before bed can build up some OT pretty quickly. If you look at a day like yesterday she had 7.5 hours of A time before her nap, and then 5 hours after ... makes for a very long day for her at that age.
Without knowing what your routine was like when she was on two naps, I would try for a short nap of 30ish minutes at about 10am or so, and then a 1.5-2 hour nap at about 130 and then bed by 7-730pm and see how she does with that.
HTH
-
Hi Nicole!!! ;D
agreeing with Mashi,i think she is OT too.i would try and go back to 2 naps for a while if you can or alternate them if she will do that.On her 1 nap days i would bring her bedtime earlier say 6.30,or 7pm if she wakes at 3pm.
why did you go to the 1 nap? was she resisting somewhere? i would look at tweaking that before you jump to the 1 nap cosistently.
Lucy xxx
-
Lucy-Yes she was consistently refusing pm nap until very very late and am nap was getting later and later..and refusal was happening even on 30 min nap. with two naps our bedtime tended to get late which was alright but switching to one was working really well for most days. I do two naps when she seems OT. and I do the short am and longer pm. It will end up something like 10:30-11 and 2-4 ish. IF she'll go down at 2 without a fight.
Mashi-I'll try for that today.
Thanks. I think I just needed to hear someone else TELL me what to do.
-
Hi Nicole
we have been having exactly the same kind of NWs with Alex these last 2 weeks. I've struggled to identify the cause as he's never been a consistent sleeper, and is back on medication for reflux, and is teething. ::)
Anyway, I thought he was UT so pushed him on to one nap for a couple days, he has always needed less sleep than average, even though it is early to go to one nap). It helped for 3 days, but since then nights have been awful again. He is at nursery 3 days a week; yesterday I asked them to try for 2 naps as he was tired from the horrible night. He wouldn't go down in the morning until 11.15, so his pm nap was later than normal and they woke him at 4pm for tea. Usually he is awake by 3pm so I was concerned he wouldn't go down at 7 for bedtime.
Anyway, guess what? He went to sleep at 7 and slept ALL NIGHT with no wakings. Well, that's happened about 30 times in total in the past year so I was astonished! It led me to wonder if he was indeed OT and so having a short A time before bed helped him to catch up properly.
Am keeping fingers crossed for another decent night tonight.....
hth
Kathryn x
-
Kathryn-Thank you! I felt horrible when she didn't nap until 1 yesterday!!! The sitter was supposed to do a 12 pm nap...and had she been with my mom or me I'd have done 2 (my mom was away who usually watches her) But I guess I should have done an earlier bedtime to compensate for all the bad sleeping. Today my mom has her and is trying for two naps. :)
-
Nicole - my 2p worth is that the last A is too long on the 1 nap days. J is doing 4.5hrs to bed after a 2.5hr nap. He would struggle to do 5 full hrs on a 2hr nap.
But I understand fully that sometimes there isn't much you can do about it, especially when working.
In the final stages of the 2-1 I essentially set bedtime for 6.45pm, basically as I just couldn't get hom and get him to bed any earlier. I think it might have helped as his body clock was set.
So frustrating though :(.
-
Thanks!
Liz-Yeah It is hard as I pick her up around 4 and get home and rush to do dinner by 5:30/6ish and it all ends up later than I plan. Sigh. Will try earlier bedtime tonight. I am hoping she'll nap 2-3:30 or 4 this afternoon and I can go for 7:30/8 so 4 hrs. A. Hope that will help. Crossing my fingers she naps well. :) Thing is she didn't struggle with the 5 hr. A to bed until she was waking early and her nights were getting shorter (an OT sign I know) but she was settling so well/easily and sleeping through the night but I guess it caught up with her and I wasn't realizing it. Ooops.
-
J collapsed out of exhaustion after super longs A's as well. I was very surprised as in the past he would have screamed if OT.
Anyway you can give Ava her tea a bit earlier on one nap days? Like give her something from the night before instead? That would only work if you don't all eat together I guess. My mum gives J his tea at 4.30 - 5pm, so right when you are travelling I guess.
-
I can do her dinner earlier. I am going to do that tonight and see how it goes. It's more that DH and I aren't good think ahead types and we're procrastinating last minute people.
-
Morning
Just wondering how last night was for you? Alex has been waking before midnight the last 2 weeks but last night his NW was at 2.30 am- I suppose you could call that "progress"? ::)
Anyway took about an hour for him to properly go back to sleep, it's been a lot worse than that so am not complaining too much. I am starting to think TV before bed gets him OS and that causes a waking before midnight.
I had the wierdest dream about you last night- I picked the kids up from nursery and you were late to pick up Ava (although in my dream she was called Nicole and you were Ava) and I took her to buy a balloon to cheer her up and then looked after her in my car until you arrived. I think I am losing the plot....! ::)
-
Strange dream! Well thanks for being kind to Ava in your subconscious dreamland hehehe. :) She loves balloons!
Last night went well. I rushed to get her to bed early and ended up putting her up WAY TOO early hehehe. She was in bed just shy of 7 and actually tried to fall asleep but couldn't. Def. UT (she woke from her nap at 4:15!!!--I wasn't thinking) Well we didn't want to bring her back downstairs so we did quiet play in her room for awhile and tried bedtime again (7:45 maybe) and she still had trouble so DH took a turn staying in her room with her and laid her down closer to 8 and she fell asleep somewhere around there. I can't believe I laid her down less than 3 hours after she woke from a 2 hr. nap. What was I thinking?! BUT she slept ALL NIGHT. I heard her twice but didn't have to go in and she was right back to sleep. She was up at 6:00 ish (6:10 maybe) which is still about 10 hrs. only BUT on good naps and no NWs I'll take it. I'm going to see if she'll do the same 2 naps today and hope for the night to go well again.
2:30 is better than midnight for him but not for you I guess. :( Good luck today!I was actually thinking about the tv too close to bed. DD doesn't watch but if DH and I do watch I wonder if it is too OS with the lights and sounds, etc. I am thinking of not having it on the hour or so before her bedtime.
-
glad last night went well.hope you get the 2 naps in today xx
-
My mom took Ava to the park and she had two naps...but the second was shorter than I had hoped. She went to bed easily but we'll see what the night brings.
-
I have a question. If I keep getting 10 or 10.5 hr. nights after consistently doing the two naps again do I assume she needs less daytime sleep and if so....how do I cut it...just do one nap? From what you're saying...on one nap which should be around 12-2 or later....she'd need an early bedtime but then I'd certainly have an EW (which wouldn't be a technical early wake...just early for DH and I and having to go to work, etc.) But with two naps she'll wake early b/c of getting a lot of daytime sleep. Is it normal to do something like:
nap 1-10:30-11
nap 2-2:30-4 ?
bed-8
Also in the past she would sleep later in the morning as we pushed her morning nap later....to the point it was at 11 to get her to sleep to 7. If that same principle holds true...wouldn't I need her to take her am nap later than 10:30 esp. when she isn't sick/teething etc. and can handle the long A times again (which she can do 5 hrs. normally) b/c otherwise it will reinforce her early wake time???
I guess basically my question is...after we get past these NWs from OT....how do I get her to sleep until 7 am again????????????
-
Also in the past she would sleep later in the morning as we pushed her morning nap later....to the point it was at 11 to get her to sleep to 7. If that same principle holds true...wouldn't I need her to take her am nap later than 10:30 esp. when she isn't sick/teething etc. and can handle the long A times again (which she can do 5 hrs. normally) b/c otherwise it will reinforce her early wake time???
I think this is mostly a factor when you are putting LO to bed too early in the mornings and letting them sleep as long as they want. Then they start waking early to get that extra A time - but putting her down and then waking her at 30 minutes isn't as likely to do that as she's not getting a full sleep. Does that make sense?
I guess basically my question is...after we get past these NWs from OT....how do I get her to sleep until 7 am again????????????
IN my experience it happens on it's own as LO gets more well rested. We have just recovered from a spell of it here, and really, it just took a few days of DS getting his good daytime sleeps in, back to his normal bedtime, and he started waking at his regular time (around 7). I was surpised at how much extra sleep it took in the days and a couple of nights in a row to get him back on track - I hadn't realised just HOW tired he got from a few days.
Looking at your routine, I wonder if 2pm might even be a bit too late to put her down for the afternoon. My thinking is this -- the amount of A time she has from her wake up until her first nap (4ish hours?) is a "full" awake time, but 30 minutes for her nap is very low, not even one full sleep cycle. So she's not resting enough to make up for how tired she was. Which means that she will start out her A time still tired, and 3.5 hours may be too long for her - at least during this time period of OT and trying to break it. Perhaps when she is not in an OT cycle it may be fine, but you want to keep her from getting too tired at all during the day. Am I making sense?
So I would either move her nap to no later than 2pm and see what happens. OR, I would let her have a 45 minute nap in the mornings for one or two days so that she rests fully, and then aim for a 3.5ish hour A time and adjust accordingly. Neither of things may work regularly for her, but when she is in an OT cycle, reducing A times often really helps to catch up on sleep.
HTH?
-
Nicole - I am also in the camp that feels that the EW will go all by itself once the rest of the routine is right. In many respects they are just a sign of 'wrongness'. I honestly don't think any form of 'head on' tackling works with EWs.
I do think a 2.30 - 4pm nap is ending too late in the day really - at least after the OT is caught up anyway.
-
Totally agree with both of Liz's points :)
I feel we are caught up in this cycle of "wrongness"- having had a year of inconsistent (to put it politely) night sleep, and the last 2 weeks of dreadful night sleep, we have now had 2 mornings of EW before 5.30. AARGH. He has never ever been an EWaker before. I think he's all just out of whack.
Sophie has been poorly this last week and I have been wondering if that's behind all this with Big Al so we went to the doc this morning and she confirmed his tonsils and ears are all inflamed but not too bad- looks like whatever virus they have both had is coming to an end. So that would explain much of what has been going on. Now it's my turn- I have woken up with tonsillitis today ::)
Also we definitely have some SA going on- not sure if it's developmental (as he's almost 13mo it's the right time for it) or if it's due to him feeling a bit poorly, probably a bit of both. I had forgotten how hard SA is to deal with. Am knackered.
Hope you've had a good night xxx
-
mashi-We've tried shorter A time after a 30 min. nap in the past and she wouldn't go to sleep. Her A time is also 3 hrs. after the 30 min. nap not 3.5 (wakes at 11 and is laid down again at 2) and I felt that was reasonable. Any less and she tends to play and have a crib party and not go to sleep for awhile. Anymore and she gets OT and fights it also so that worked well. So 10:30-11 and 2-4 is the aim as when well rested she does fine on 5 hrs! If I give her a 45 min. nap in the am....It'll push her pm nap even later I'd imagine (she is tending to actually fall asleep 2:10 or 2:15 when laid down around 2. So I am thinking it will go to 2:30/45....which I could do but then I'd want to wake her by 4 and she'd get less daytime sleep (2 hr. 15 min. as oppose to 2.5 hrs.?--is my math correct?). Do you think 10am is too early to do the short am nap?
Liz-I do think the afternoon nap is too late. So when she is caught up I feel like she'll need to go back to one nap. I felt that when we did one nap consistently at 12-2 and bed by 7 she was doing fine but then slowly she started waking early and I guess she is just not ready for ALL one nap days. She started the NWs after she stayed at a friend of mine's house and has always had them when we aren't home, which I believe was a major contributing factor to this particular OT loop we got into. :( The thing is that even the last time we caught up...2 naps or 1...she was still waking around 5:30--6 the latest. Sleeping through but just up early. I think it'd bother me less if she was always an early riser but in the past she was not so I feel like she has the ability in there somewhere. I hope :)
Last night she was up from 3:30-5:30--at first b/c she sounded like she was settling herself.....but she couldn't settle because she was soaked through her diaper and pajamas. I went in after a bit and when I picked her up I felt her and had to change her and at this point she was awake and so alert she wouldn't relax. She kept talking and sitting up and asking to get down to play and asking for the dog and for daddy. At one point she yelled over and over daddy daddy daddy until he came and held her and as soon as he had her in his arms she was yelling mommy mommy mommy....b/c what she really wanted was ONE of us to put her down to play. She is too alert at this point to get her to lay down and try to go back to sleep so we never know what to do. If you lay her down she screams and cries and when you pick her up she tries to wriggle free to get down to play and says all the things she sees or knows "Chase" "milk" "book" blah blah blah. I finally held her and sang which got her to calm down and then I got her back to bed, but SHEESH it took forever.
-
Ugh - that really is no fun for mummy or daddy though :(.
Sorry Nicole :-*
You might need to wake at 3.30pm on a 2 nap day, ie after 1.5hrs instead of 2?
-
ignore me if im wrong but one of the mods on here (becky i think???) said to me that a 1.5 nap for the longest nap was good to aim for cos with the short nap too it adds up to a gr8 amount of daytime sleep! so like liz said i would cut that pm nap down.
she was doing 2 hrs with her 1 nap so maybe thats all the daytime sleep she needs.maybe the 2 nap days when she has a bit :-more is causing the wanting to get up and play problem. :-\
-
Okay. Will try that out. She was great this morning. Slept through last night with no problems and woke up around 6 or so...found her bunny and a book in her crib and I could hear her chatting with herself and pleasant. Recently she's woken up and cried right away (still tired of course so grumpy) so that was nice to hear. :) DH accidentally left her light on dim last night rather than off. I do wonder if that made her less disoriented when she did wake and she was able to get back to sleep better??? Liz-you had said something about J needing a night light now? Maybe we do as well.
-
Yeah - I leave a night light on now. I find if he does wake he will just go back to sleep, whereas in the pitch black he can't find his bear or cloth and gets disorientated if he wakes. For a while I used to go in, put the night light on, and very quickly lie him back down and give him his bear. But with a night light he can do this without me. Its a very dim one though.
-
We're currently having an am nap refusal. I'm thinking UT on a good night's sleep and I didn't anticipate this but I probably should have done just one nap today. She's happy, just chatting away up there and not falling asleep at all. Playing, I can hear her. So I guess if I do 2 days of 2 naps I'll need to do a day or two of 1 nap? Esp. if she has no NWs and woke at a reasonable time.
-
mashi-We've tried shorter A time after a 30 min. nap in the past and she wouldn't go to sleep.
Yes, I am just thinking that if she is currently in an OT cycle, then A times shorter than normal seem to work best. But it was just my opinion, you know what will work best for her!
If I give her a 45 min. nap in the am....It'll push her pm nap even later I'd imagine (she is tending to actually fall asleep 2:10 or 2:15 when laid down around 2. So I am thinking it will go to 2:30/45....which I could do but then I'd want to wake her by 4 and she'd get less daytime sleep (2 hr. 15 min. as oppose to 2.5 hrs.?--is my math correct?).
Normally, I would say yes. But, again, I always go by "rules go out the window" when in an OT spell. For example -- I have had DS on a 30 minute morning nap followed by 3h15m of A time and then a 2 hour afternoon nap for about 8 weeks now. He got into an OT spell about 2 weeks ago shortly after he'd moved to one nap (construction outside of his bedroom window, didn't stand a chance!) and in getting out of it, the day that finally moved us through the OT and back to normal was a 45 minute morning nap (which he hasn't had in AGES) and then 2.5 hours later (!!!!!) he went down for his afternoon nap and slept for 2h15 minutes, when I woke him up! Went to bed at his normal clock time, (ie/ not using A time, even though he had slept later, and longer) and slept through for a full 12 hour night. I'm not saying you should try that same nap time/length that worked for us, just offering that maybe more sleep and shorter A times for a day or two might be a good help at building up some rest and getting her through this. Just my thoughts!! ;)
Do you think 10am is too early to do the short am nap?
My opinion -- no, not too early at all. Not while getting through this - if she is having shorter nights with NWs then right when she is waking up in the mornings she has less of a 'sleep bank' to get her through the morning on. If you push her A time out int he morning then she is already shattered by the time she goes to sleep and then waking up from a short nap not rested. Her afternoon A time would then need to be shorter than normal as she's already exhausted at the beginning of it. BUT if you put her down earlier for her first nap (only for a day or two until she's rested!) she isn't quite as tired, and that short morning nap will rest her up MORE. Does that make sense?
HTH???
-
Well today she did not nap in the am...we went out and got back later than planned. She didn't get to nap until 12:45/50 and only slept til about 2 (with a short wake up in the middle but went back to sleep). SOOOO we'll do an early bedtime tonight, hope for the best and two naps tomorrow. BUT I have learned that on both good naps and a full good night's sleep it only takes about a day or so to get over the OT in which case I have to jump back to reg. A times during the day and do one nap.
-
When I say didn't, I mean she played and chatted and stood and refused to sleep and it was for sure not too long of an A so had to be too short.
Mashi-I know what you mean about short A times for OT but short for her is around 3 hrs. unless sick with a fever! I totally appreciate your opinion and perspective. Thank you for all of your help...it was you who got us back a good night's sleep last night and the other night! Just trying to keep heading in the right direction. :)
-
Okay, so today she was up at 5:00 am. I got two naps in so I think we'll be okay. Now I am wondering how terrible daylight savings will be for us. If she has a bad nap day and I get an EW of 5am....at some point that will be 4am! And if she is thinking she is ready for the day....ACK how will I function at work?
-
Hi Ladies,
We're still having troubles. Mostly I think we're at a loss as to how to handle the NWs and they are getting out of hand. Any thoughts on the best approach to getting her to go back to sleep without a 1.5 to 2 hr. long battle?
*PU/PD?--She doesn't calm/stop crying/settle when we pick her up. She is throwing these aggressive tantrums and last night was pushing us away and grabbing at our faces to try to scratch/hurt us in order to get down. If I do the just PD part I think she'll just keep getting up. She fights to get up even with a hand for pressure on her.
*WI/WO?--I don't know much about this method...but was wondering if it would be more helpful since she doesn't settle when picked up.
*Let her fuss and see if she'll settle--we always wait to see if she'll fall asleep on her own before goign in. She seems to try for about 30 mins before giving up and throwing a fit and needing intervention. BUT then no intervention really works. :(
I am thinking that although the NWs started because she was OT that now they are being reinforced b/c she gets so much attention from us.
I'll post a new post somewhere else if need be, just wanted to get your ladies opinion on what DH and I should attempt b/c we're both at a loss for what to do and neither feels comfortable just leaving her to cry alone for hours obviously.
-
So how DO you get her back to sleep in the end? And how does she normally get herself to sleep.
I wouldn't do PU/PD - they are too strong and too mobile for it at this age - and I think it starts to make them SUPER angrey as well.
Basically your choices are either WI/WO or Gradual withdrawl. I would decinde based on how much help you end up giving her at the moment.
J is SUPER independent to sleep ie no form of AP does anything anyway, so when we have issues I always use WI/WO and ignore the fussing. Stage one is usually to just go in and give his lovey back ::).
And I wouldn't pick up either TBH
Have you ever read this
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
Happy to describe how I do WI/WO if it will help. I have used it with J since about 9 mths as PU/PD didn't work well for us.
-
(((hugs))) honey - we have the same problem if E is awake in the night, as there is absolutely no way of getting her back to sleep. TBH, we have got to the point where we just have to ride it out and she gets to the point where she can't stay awake any longer (although one night that took 5 hours :o) - but at the moment (touch wood) it's not every night so we can cope.
From what you are saying WI/WO sounds like the best option, but I have never managed to get it to work with E. Hope you find a solution soon.
-
Alright
-Currently NWs go like this:
1-Fussing noises, we wait and keep listening. (she sometimes falls back asleep...the end :) )
2-Fussing continues, some chatting starts, we wait (again, she sometimes falls back asleep alone...)
3-Fussing/chatting goes on for abut 30 mins. crying starts and you can hear her shaking the side of the crib/rail so you know she is standing... (she is not going to fall back asleep)
4-Crying escalates and becomes more consistent
5-DH or I go in, she sees us and stands up and says mommy/daddy and we pick her up.
6-She pushes against us, we readjust to keep holding her, she hits at us, twists, screams, cries, yells various words to indicate she wants to get down. etc. etc.
7-Most recently, I hold her tight to me and readjust as needed as she fights and calmly sing something or say "mommy is here, it's night night time, not play time" and then just sing/hum until she calms down. This does not always work...as last night she carried on for a good hour...so finally made her a cup of warm milk which she sucked down and then was calm.
8-Hold her until she is asleep and try to lay her down. She resists/wakes/fights/screams when you try to lay her down or get near the crib. Even if you try to put her in a rocking position as opposed to over your shoulder. I've tried laying her down still awake and she grabs onto me and climbs up like a glued on monkey screaming and I feel like I am prying her off and she gets hysterical so I stopped trying to lay her down at this point. It's totally ridiculous at this point.
BUT she goes to sleep like a dream at bedtime. Like tonight for example. I put her in her pajamas, read her book, laid her down, tucked her in and LEFT. She stays lying down and makes her mantra and goes to sleep NO PROBLEM! It's just the middle of the night she is a lunatic! And when she does go back to sleep herself, I believe she finds her lovey or blanket or whatever, makes her noise and settles to sleep. I guess I don't understand why sometimes she can't do that and sometimes she can.
The last time we had any real NW issues were during paci weaning, but it was short lived. Prior to that was teething molars, again short lived, and then before that standing...which she would still let us lay her back down and leave. Not anymore :(
Liz-I did read that link to decide and was thinking WI/WO would maybe work but wasn't sure how to go about it. I'd like to hear how you do it.
Clare-Thanks for the hugs. I can't imagine 5 hrs!. When you say you ride it out...do you intervene at all or just leave her to figure it out????
-
I can't just leave her to it, so I tend to go to her room and get into bed with her - she often doesn't go to sleep, but she does calm down a bit and normally doesn't cry once I am there. We take the same approach as you to start with though - we leave her until it is absolutely clear that she won't go back to sleep, as she will often whimper for 15-20 mins and still go back to sleep.
Usually I would expect her to be awake for about 2 hours (sometimes a bit more) with me in the room. Last night, when she woke because of OT, she settled back to sleep with me immediately and (apart from a couple of short wakes) slept until we woke her at 6.15. The times when I have tried WI/WO, she has got herself so worked up that she is crying and choking and can't breathe - at which point I pick her up and cuddle her anyway, so I am not going to try it again: it's one thing to get through the crying for some benefit, but making her cry for hours for no purpose seems cruel. Once she has got to that state, though, she tends to conk out pretty quickly afterwards! ;)
-
I took the day off of work to try to get some sleep. My mom has Ava and I have to wait for our new furniture to be delivered but after that I am trying to take a LONG nap.
Clare-Is she in a bgb? or still a crib? Just wondering how you get in bed with her hehehe.
-
We have a double bed pushed against the wall in her room - she is still in a crib, otherwise she would just fall out in seconds!
-
It does sound as though you will have to keep her in the crib whatever you do - as otherwise she is asking to get down and play.
What I do with J is ignore all the fussing and mantra crying in the hope he will just go back off again. I often pop the video monitor on so I can see if there is any issue at this point (usually a lost bear and cloth) - if that is the case I just go in, find the missing loveys, hand them to him and walk out. Issue usually solved :).
If he starts proper crying I go in, and I usually pick him up at first just to check for any issues (wet nappies, clearly in pain, clearly hungry etc). If there are issues we sort them out. If nothing and it is just OT I put him back, tell him it is night time, give him bear and cloth and walk out. Usually he will cry pretty hard for a minute or so and then start to go very on and off, on and off. If he is like that I leave him. If it is mantra I leave him. If he is standing but not screaming I leave him (I mean he can get down anyway). I only go back when he is really kicking off again and repeat. If he is standing I kneel by the cot and ask him to get down. He will usually sit of I do that. I make sure he has his lovey (often flings them out the cot in anger), tell him it is sleep time and leave. He ALWAYS screams really hard when I leave, but he always calms very quickly once I am out of the room, so I walk out regardless and hang back for a few.
I think one of the keys with WI/WO is to make sure you don't go back too quickly or interrupt mantra crying as this seems to be what prolongs the process. I also don't bother lying him down anymore as it really winds him up.
Just as a complete opposite to Clare I have always found this approach very successful, and I usually only have to go back 3 or 4 times. I think part of it is that J knows what I am doing and knows I will just keep him in the cot, so he tends to give up quick.
Putting J in our bed doesn't work at all anymore - he just does not settle. On the odd night when he has been dreadful I have lay him with me until he is quiet and calm, and then popped him back in when he is still awake. TBH I think they are the times we are waiting for the pain meds to kick in.
-
It was really effective with M when I tried it - one night I had to go back 3 times, the next night twice and not again after that.
I guess a lot of it depends on what the problem is - if E has just lost bunny she will sometimes go back to sleep pretty quickly, but if there is "nothing" wrong then we are completely stuffed! I think more often than not it is pain related, but if we try to give her calpol in the middle of the night she goes completely ballistic - it ends up all over her and she is even more worked up as a result. When you are totally in the dark as to what is causing it then you just have to try all the different methods and see which one works.
Is she teething at the moment? I seem to remember you saying that she was on to her canines - they were the only teeth that gave M any trouble at all, and it wasn't just straight forward crying in pain. It's possible that all this disruption is because of them - they are evil!
-
I think we're going to try it...