BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Britterbug84 on November 30, 2009, 16:35:00 pm
-
Last night was the worst night we have had in my DD's short 4 month and 1 week life. We have her on a 3.5 hr EASY with 2 hrs of A time. This was an almost overnight change from 1 hr 45 min of A time, and yesterday's naps were amazingly perfect because of the change. Here is what our schedule looked like for last night and yesterday:
E - 4:30am
S - 4:48 - she had a rough time in the early morning waking again at 6:40, 7:15, 7:30, and 7:45 before starting the day at
E - 8:00 -she wasn't very hungry.
A - 8:05 -she was very crabby and cranky through the whole two hours and after an hour and a half she started giving her hungry cry so I fed her
E - 9:30 - she ate for 15 minutes
S - 10:00 - She slept through her whole nap for the first time in weeks and slept until I woke her
E - 11:30 - once again she wasn't very hungry
A - 11:37 - she was again very cranky for most of the two hour and ate again after about an hour and a half (this is NOT usual for her)
E - 1:00 - ate for another 15 minutes
S - 1:30 - again, slept through the whole nap and had to be woken
E - 3:00 - this time she did eat a full feed of 15 minutes
A - 3:15 - was VERY cranky for this 2 hours and wanted to eat again after an hour and a half
E - 4:30 - This time she only ate for about 5 minutes
S - 5:05 - slept through the whole nap but woke by herself to eat
E - 6:30 - wasn't hungry at all just played around and maybe swallowed 5-6 times
A - 6:35 - happier this time. Had bed time routine but didn't want her snack after her bath
S - 8:15
DF - 11:00 - she is bottle fed breast milk and only ate about 3/4 oz - This is a recent thing; she used to pound down almost 6 oz for her DF and now it is at most 1 oz
This is where the horrific night started
She woke up and was given her paci to go back to sleep at:
1:30, 2:00, 3:00, 3:45 (she put herself back to sleep after 5 minutes of fussing, and then
E - 4:10 - she ate her usual 15 minutes and went right back to sleep
S - 4:25
Then woke again at
5:15, 6:00 (I fed her again for 15 minutes), 7:00, 7:45, then I got her up at 8:00
For most of the NWings she woke up frantically screaming to the point where I would have to pick her up and calm her down before giving her the paci and putting her back in bed and patting her back to sleep. A couple of the times last night I thought she might put herself back to sleep because she was just fussing, but then it turned into screaming. I don't know what is going"'''''''''; on! She NEVER used to wake like that at night. Usually if she woke during the night (which has been at the most twice) she would quietly fuss and I would only get up to feed her because I knew she was hungry, not because she was actually crying/screaming.
This isn't a paci problem because she can and will go down without her paci and when she does go down with it she doesn't wake when it falls out. My first thought was that she was having a growth spurt, but you would think she would be HUNGRY at her feedings if it was a growth spurt!
She has been teething for a couple weeks and gets teething tablets whenever she seems to be hurting. She also has reflux but it hasn't been a big problem sense she went on meds at 4 weeks. That being said, she has been wanting to suck on EVERYTHING constantly....I think it is more of a teething thing though.
Please help us!! Last night was SO hard!!
-
It looks to me like she needs to be on a full 4 hr EASY, If she is not taking full feeds at 3.5 hours, try waiting until 4 hours to feed.
Her A times seem good at the moment, as she is sleeping good through her naps!! But maybe you could try shortening her last nap of the day, as it may be starting to rob from her night time sleep.
I know there is a 4 month GS as well, so maybe that could be part of the NW problems.
HTH
-
I have been considering that, but until yesterday she had still been waking at 3.5 hrs to eat. I guess I could try it and see if it fixes all the problems. Does this look like a good 4 EASY schedule?
E - 8
A
S - 10
E - 12
A
S - 2
E - 4
A
S - 6
E - 6:45
A - Bedtime routine
S - 8:30-45
That doesn't give us exactly the 12 hr day/ 12 hr night thing. Is that ok?
-
Looks good, I would give that a try and see if it works for a few days.
It doesn't have to be a perfect EAS routine, you can wait half an hour after she wakes up to feed her if she doesn't seem hungry. Then it would be more like EASAEAS.
YKWIM?
-
hey
god your nights sound just as bad as mine! Although i have twins to contend with but I know how you are feeling. The started acting up at 3.5mths and have been a nightmare at night ever since. We are up almost every hour from midnight and its exhausting. A friend warned me about the 4mth thing, apparently all babies become very unsettled at this age due to growth and development. Our problem is we never introduced the dream feed so I keep thinking thats our problem,plus we feed at 3.5hrs as opposed to 4 and i feel like the routine is different every day (well time wise). I haven't much advice but maybe try getting up at 7 (yeah I know hell) but it may mean you get more food into her during the day. I am going to start dream feeding and if that doesn't work I might introduce a small bit of solid food...although maybe they will just grow out of it!
stay strong!
-
I think there may be something else going on. Last night was the same as the night before except that she wasn't very interested in nursing during the night. Then this morning she screamed and cried for the WHOLE 2 hours and still wouldn't eat. The last time she had good meal was 3 yesterday afternoon!!
Finally at 10 when she was supposed to go down for her nap she ate about 2 oz from the bottle (she refused to nurse so I pumped) and went to sleep still fussing and giving little cries. She seems like she is in pain, but nothing helps. She doesn't have a fever, and gripe water didn't give her any relief. Is it possible this is all teething? Teething tablets and Tylenol didn't help at all.
I don't know what to do. She is going to the doctor on Thursday for her 4 month appointment, but I think I may need to take her in before then.
Today is the first day we are trying a full 4 hr EASY, so hopefully it helps. Otherwise I don't know what to try.
-
Hi there, teething can cause reflux to flare. We had a huge flare at 18 weeks and were almost back to square one. What meds is she on and perhaps she needs an increase? If her meds aren't controlling the acid she will burn when she 'fluxes and that can cause discomfort. If you feel she's in pain then she probably is...a mother usually knows.
We had to move to thickened feeds after this flare because DS went from silent reflux to spitting up.
-
hey there *huge hugs* my lo's doing the same :( excess saliva sometimes causes reflux to flare up like wendy was mentioning!
I hope things get better...I really do! you're in my thoughts. keep us updated! If you think it's pain related perhaps try introducing rice cereal or changing her meds or both?
-
I would stay away from rice cereal for as long as you can. But then I'm a little biased as it gave us nothing but problems with constipation. >:(
My first thought is what Wendy suggested - a med review or increase is needed for the reflux. Food refusal is usually driven by discomfort either actual or perceived/predicted. Keep offering.
Other things that might be at play: teeth or growth spurt.
TBH until your LO is eating again, I wouldn't get too hung up on doing a specific length EASY (ie 3.5 vs 4hr). Just keep the routine the same and keep offering food and sleep in the same order for as long as she'll take/do it.
(((Hugs))) for you hon.
-
gah. really? constipation? sorry britterbug..didn't mean to give you bad advice :(
-
Thanks ladies!
I am planning to talk to her doctor about her reflux dose at her appointment on Thursday. She slept through her whole 2 hour first nap with only a little wake up at 1.5 hours. This last awake time she ate about 3.5 oz from the bottle (she still refuses to nurse) over the whole 2 hours. She was much happier and only melted down as she got tired. Then she went from happy to screaming bloody murder in about 10 seconds. Luckily, she calmed down and went down for her nap pretty quickly.
Hopefully things don't get worse before Thursday.
-
How long are feeds when your LO doesn't seem hungry? Maybe she has just gotten more efficient at eating. My LO at 3-4 months all of a sudden started eating for only 5-10 minutes.
just a thought ;)
Re: Teething, It definitely could be the culprit. Have you checked for signs of teeth coming up to the surface? ie. Bumps on the gums, or White spots where teeth could be coming up?
-
Hi there Sarah, your advice is not bad...as Jane says :-) We use rice cereal as thickener and Finn has never been constipated in 8.5 months so I often suggest it too. That's not to say we don't have lots of other issues lol...but constipation is not one of them luckily. A lot of LO's do get constipated though and it exacerbates issues. So I think the first step here is what KM (used to be BB) is doing and speaking to the doc.
Let us know how the appt. goes. Pretty much when LO is in discomfort of any kind you have to let them lead and any kind of strict routine is hard to stick to. Especially with food refusal...LO's that don't eat well typically don't sleep well etc etc.
-
didn't mean to give you bad advice :(
Not bad advice. I just wanted to throw out an alternative perspective on baby rice. Sorry it came out a bit caustic. :-[
I was advised by so many IRL people that baby rice would help out, and it did nothing for DS2 except cause problems. So my personal experiences are very negative.
-
How long are feeds when your LO doesn't seem hungry? Maybe she has just gotten more efficient at eating. Have you checked for signs of teeth coming up to the surface? ie. Bumps on the gums, or White spots where teeth could be coming up?
She is usually a VERY efficient eater at only 5-7 minutes, but now she will swallow once or twice and then unlatch and refuse to go back on. Then she is rooting and screaming for the rest of the awake time because she is hungry! Right before she goes to bed (when she is in that sleepy state) I have been able to get her to drink from a bottle a tiny bit. I have looked at her gums and it seems like there are two little white spots on her bottom gums where teeth might be coming through. I just don't know because I hadn't really looked at her gums until she started being in pain and chewing on everything.
Today things are worse, she was up every 5-10 minutes from 6:30-8 and she has only eaten .5 oz (from a bottle) sense 4 in the morning. We are going to the doctor in about an hour. I just couldn't sit around holding my obviously in pain daughter while I wait for tomorrow.
My mother suggested that she may have an ear infection. I hadn't even thought of that! You would think that Tylenol would help that, but it hasn't. I almost hope she DOES have one so that at least there is a reason for her screaming. Then we can work to fix it. I am terrified that they are going to tell me that nothing is wrong! I know there is something going on because this just isn't my baby!
-
Let us know how the Dr's goes, hopefully he can shed some light on this.
-
oh dear. Please keep us posted. You're in our thoughts. I hope you find some relief soon...deep breaths and it will pass soon *hugs*
I just went to the doctors too. She didn't want to prescribe losec for her. She said try prevacid again, but with prunes as I told she has night wakings on every hour bc of the stomach pains/constipation.
I have to choose between sleep or eating! Yikes. Maybe some prunes will help her with her solids as when she doesn't sleep..she is soo cranky. Can't take her anywhere without a meltdown.
-
Sooo, I pretty much feel like the doctor was a waste of time and money.
She didn't seem really concerned about DD not eating, and basically just started to pass it off as teething. I told her that DD had been teething for a while and tablets had been helping and that I thought this was something else.
She didn't seem concerned about the fact that DD has been throwing her head back and forth in what seems like pretty severe pain.
I asked if her prevacid might need to be adjusted and she said "Oh yeah, I guess you can do that" and then started to explain to me what reflux is. Umm, I know what it is, my DD has it!
I asked her if it could be an ear infection so she checked and said that her left ear looked a little red and enlarged.....I think she was just saying that to try to satisfy my worry. I don't think she would have checked her ears if I hadn't suggested it.
I asked if the white bumps on her bottom gums looked like teeth, and she said "I don't know, it might be"!
When I undressed DD to get her weight I noticed a really light rash of red dots on her belly, arm pits, and thighs so I brought it to the doctor's attention. She wiped her finger over a couple spots and said "well sometimes they get these little rashes"......I was thinking "AND???" UGH, I think I need a new pediatrician!
They decided to combine this visit with her 4 month appointment, rather than having me come back tomorrow. So DD got her shots, and a prescription of amoxicillin for her ear. Hopefully it helps her. She finally nursed for a good 15 minutes when we got home, and then ate about 2 oz from the bottle. Then she went right to sleep and I am just about to get her up again. Thank you ladies for the good thoughts!
-
Hey everyone!
Things seem to be getting better with the night sleeping. She was only up ONCE last night! The night before it was twice, so I hope this means she is back to normal for now. She is still having some serious problems during the day, but I am also hoping she does better now that she is getting better nights. I am trying to adjust to the fact that this pain stuff might be the new normal until she is finished teething. Ugh if it is!
Thanks for all the good thoughts and hugs and such! Hopefully I wont have to post again for a while *fingers crossed*
-
excellent news. *hugs*
-
I just wanted to post that we are still having good nights and she has even gone back to eating her 5-6 oz during her DF! Days are getting easier, but she still needs teething stuff a lot and sometimes Tylenol when it gets really bad. Thanks again for all your advice and good thoughts!
-
nice!! Did you ever find out what was causing her nightwakings?? I'm so happy she's settled down and things are back to normal :)
-
I'm happy to hear that!! Keep it up! :)
-
Yeah, I shouldn't have ever posted. I jinxed us and everything fell apart again about an hour after I posted.
No, I never did figure out what was causing the NWings. We got our first good night of sleep after she got her shots on Wednesday last week. Then I had my wonderful, mostly happy baby for a few precious days until Monday morning.
She slept well Sunday night, and was happy during the first awake time. Then she woke early from that nap, I resettled her and she slept until I woke her at noon for her second feed of the day.
About half an hour into that A time she started the screaming and crying. It hasn't let up for more than 1 awake time per day sense, and now her nights are getting worse again. Last night she screamed and cried for almost 2 hours before going to bed. She is once again only eating an ounce or two for her DF and is waking at least twice during the night. She is waking 45 minutes early every morning almost to the minute and wont resettle.
During the day for naps, she will fall asleep in my arms (APOP) and then will suddenly arch her back and start screaming her little head off and it is all I can do to calm her back down. Once she does calm down, she will take a paci and instantly go back to sleep and I can put her down in her crib. Then I am lucky if she sleeps for 45 minutes and am VERY lucky if I can resettle her. Needless to say, schedule is basically non-existent.
As of yesterday and today she doesn't want to nurse and will barely eat from a bottle. This morning she swallowed all of 8 times and then pulled off and wouldn't eat anymore. The only time she will eat is right before she falls asleep when she goes down for naps/bed. During her NWings she will nurse for almost 20 minutes straight, but she is basically eating in her sleep.
She is still being treated for her ear infection, but I decided that I couldn't keep her drugged up on Tylenol and Teething tablets all day long. She doesn't seem any better or worse sense I stopped giving them to her yesterday morning.
One new symptom is that she is now having BM's 4-6 times a day and once during the night. I actually think that is what is waking her up early in the morning. I think it may be because of the medicine for the ear ache, so we will see if after tomorrow she goes back to once every couple days.
She is pretty miserable, and I can't for the life of me figure out what is going on. I keep checking her gums and they aren't looking different at all so I don't know if this is all teething like the pediatrician said it was. I keep having a feeling that it isn't just teething.
We are going to a new pediatrician on Friday (that was the earliest they could get us in) so please pray for her and my sanity until then.
-
Hi there, hugs and sorry to hear it's all gone badly. Did you end up increasing the Prevacid? It really still sounds like reflux. She could be teething yes (we didn't see anything in the gums for ages and ages and then two teeth just popped out like popcorn), the ear infection could also be bothering her, but on top of all of that her reflux could be flaring and if she's on the wrong dose it's not going to get better.
-
She has been getting double her dose of the Prevacid for a week now. That is one thing I am specifically going to ask this new doctor about.
-
Well, I figured I would update this.
We went to a second doctor a week ago, and it was such a better experience! She listened very carefully to every concern I had. She said that it doesn't look like she is teething, but said that doesn't mean that she isn't. She said that it DID sound like something was hurting her, but that it was weird that the Tylenol wasn't giving her any relief.
She examined her very thoroughly and couldn't find anything else wrong with her. Just to be safe she ordered some basic blood labs and all of those came back normal. She said for us to keep giving her the Prevacid twice a day and then to skip a dose or two and see if the problem got worse. She said that both her ears look great and that the extra BMs are probably due to the amoxicillin. She said that one thing that could be happening is that she originally had an ear infection and it got better with the medicine, and then the amoxicillin started giving her a stomach ache.
Kaylee was back to being pretty normal again after the appointment and through the weekend. Then on Monday evening we accidental missed a dose of her Prevacid and on Tuesday morning she was crazy again, and has been sense then. She seems a little better today, so I am holding my breath that keeping up with every single dose of Prevacid will keep her happy. If she doesn't stay better, I don't know what I will do. The doctor said to come back in two weeks if she isn't better, but I don't know what to do about her getting better then worse then better again every few days.
She is still waking up as much as 5 minutes after she is "asleep" by stiffening and arching her back and will start screaming. I laid down with her through one nap on Tuesday and every few minutes her breathing would change from the slow steady "sleep breathing" to very fast and it seemed like she was about to start screaming again. Really odd.
Now that she is off the amoxicillin she is having 1 BM a day, which is still a lot for her, but better that it was.
It turned out that her eating problem was just my accidental turning her into a snacker, and with some help from some ladies over on the BF board we have that under control.
So I am not sure if that counts as a good update or a bad one, but there it is.
-
It seems that she is perfectly happy most of the time except when nap/bed time rolls around. I am going to be posting on the EASY board to see if it is a OT/UT problem. I just can't believe my little angel has turned into a baby I don't know at all.