BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Jenn+Ethan+Emily on January 06, 2010, 15:54:25 pm
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My DS has not been a good sleeper for quite some time now. I definitely think I am part of the cause of this. First I would rush into his room everytime he made a peep. Now I am just trying to leave him when he is not genuinely upset, but I was leaving him for about 15 minutes before going into him. Now I have removed myself completely and have been letting him do his thing until he genuinely needs me. The problem is, he has several NW's and he will keep himself up for a long time before he cries and I go and settle him (this means, patting his back for a few minutes and then waiting in the room, he seems to have a little bit of SA). He is awake and always seems so happy talking away in his crib. Last night he was awake for at least 45 min at each of his NW's before he got upset. I am fearful that over the holidays he might have developed a pacifier addiction. He rarely used it before but over the holidays, I kept giving it to him to keep him quiet at 3am when we were sleeping in the room next to a two and three year old. Now he seems to want it all the time. I do not give it to him during the day but he will cry for it at night. In the middle of the night, he will not get it himself. I fear that I am not strong enough to take it away from him. What I cannot understand, is why his NW's are so long and so happy??? He wakes at least 8 times a night (and I would say that is good night).
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Hi Jenn...just popped over here from your Naps thread and thought I'd offer my two cents' worth.
Personally, when we get long (~1h), happy (i.e. talking to self, cooing) night wakings it's because we need an increase in A time. Granted, we usually notice the need for an increase in his naps first--naps get shorter--and then his body exhibits it in the night to really catch our attention. Then if neither is heeded, then we head over into the OT territory after a couple of days and we end up with a mess to clean up. That said, I think the multiple wakings is OT.
I say all of this to you with great trepidation because of the difficult time he's had in increasing his A times. I don't want to add fuel to the fire.
However, if you think the pacifier has turned into a prop--versus a comfort item that he can control--then I would wean it; or if you think he likes it, encourage him to find it. If he's not really used it before the holidays, then I don't think there's any point in introducing it, tbh.
What does his routine look like now?
Perhaps I'm misreading this; so hopefully other moms will chime in, too :)
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Hi Sara! I am scared to wean the paci now because I am a weak person lol. I know this sounds bad but I really cannot stand to hear him cry and for some reason now he screams his head of when I do not give it to him. Maybe I just need to suck it up and deal with it but I thought at this point, he should be able to find it himself. I have not made a decision on this matter yet....
As for a routine, I really do not even feel like we have one right now. These last few days have been such a mess. I cannot get him to nap for very long therefore we are getting 4 naps in the day, terrible, I know. The mornings I have been doing a 3hr A time and trying to increase it as the morning nap seems to be the only one that I have any luck extending. Other then that, we have been waking up around 7:15 and going to bed no later then 6:30. I am really trying to work on his afternoon which has no routine or really anything as I cannot seem to get an A time to work for us at all.
Wake 7:15
E:bottle at 7:20
E: solids at 8
A: until 10:15
S: 10:15-11 (give or take 5 min) then wakes usually I can get him to go for another 30 min
E: 11:45
E: solids at 12:30
from here....I cannot even say....sometimes he goes right back to sleep at this point for 35 min, other times he will seem happy and not sleep for another 2 hours...
E: again at 5:30
S: asleep by 6:30
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Hi there Jenn, sorry to see you back here :-( I agree with Sara though - I think you need to push his A times a bit - at his age he should be on 2x 1.5 hour naps and sleeping 11-12 at night.
I think you might have some luck with set naps if you stick to a training method like PU/PD or GW. I think if you have to pat him at night for settling and/or plug his paci...it's time to get a bit tougher. He is heading into prime SA territory and it will only get worse, trust me Finn is there now and it's a mess.
The set naps might work to get him caught up on his A time to where he should be (I did this at 6 mths with Finn so we could start to drop the CN, wasn't that pretty but in the end it worked and nights got much better). It helped set his body clock which was all over the map.
I would try to keep his wake time consistent and then nap him at 3 hours from his wake time. Then I would try 2 hr 45 for the next A time, but if you get a short nap, aim for 3 hours the following day. And start from there.
So:
Wake 7:15
Nap @ 10:15 - 11:45 (A = 3)
Nap @ 2:30 - 4 (A = 2 hr 45) - I give a slightly less A time here because I often found with Finn that when I pushed the morning A, the middle A shrunk a bit until he was 'caught up'
Asleep by 7
Stick to a 12 hour day, even slightly less when he's OT or has a lot of NW - or naps go very badly.
The biggest and most important piece is to be consistent and be firm. It just means that you know what is best for your LO and you are going to help him get to where he needs to be. And that means sleeping independently without props or too much assistance from you. You are not weak Jenn, you are scared and there is a big difference :-) We're here for you, so you can do this!!!
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Today we have done a 3hr morning A time which gave us a nap of 1hr 15 minutes. Is that OT or UT? this afternoon we have gone for the about 2hr and 50 min by the time he actually got to sleep. He is napping right now so I am not sure how long this one will be.
I have never found PU/PD to really work with him. So I am more doing PD/WO..ish...? Once I put him in his crib for the night, I have never had to pick him up before morning. As soon as I walk in the room, he stops crying so I have never had to PU to stop crying or anything. I guess I will need to get rid of the paci. I feel like I am torturing him. At some level, it seems like he will somehow be scarred by this...ugh, I am scared, you are right. He just never used the stupid thing before and now he seems hooked after like two weeks.
Okay, I will work at this. Thank you!
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So yesterday looked like this:
Wake 8am we had a late wake up here, DS still very tired,
A: until 11
S: 11-12:15
A: until 3:05
S: 3:05- 3:40
A: until 6:50
S: asleep at 7pm
So naps were not great. I do not know what the 1hr 15 minute nap is, OT or UT. The pm nap only lasted 35 min. OT is suspect. Our night was great though. DS slept from 7pm to 8 pm and then he woke and fussed for a minute and went back to sleep on his own without me going in there. Then he didn't wake until 1am!!!! At this point he fussed and talked for about 15 minutes and then he went back to sleep AGAIN without me going in there. At 4:10 he woke up again and talked for about 35 minutes before I switched on the video monitor and he was all scrunched up in the corner of his crib without his blankets on. I went into the room and moved him down and put his blankets back on him and left and he went right back to sleep until 7:15. I probably did not need to go into his room at 4:10 but i really do not want him to get sick and his room is cold. Excuses, I know. So i definitely think the night went well. We have not had that much sleep since November and that was just for one night!!!
I just don't know if I should extend the morning A time a little bit more or if I should just leave the morning nap at 1hr 15 min since at least it was longer then usual. Also, you were saying that if i get a short PM nap, I should extend that A time a little bit. Given that the nap was only 35 min. do you still think i should extend that A time?
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Hi there, to be honest I don't think I would push that middle A until I had a good solid 1.5 hour morning nap. Now he could be well-rested after his 1 hr 15 but it would be risky to push him until we know for sure. So glad to hear about your night! The more you let him self-settle, the better he will get at it!
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Our night last night went very well also. Another 9hr stretch without me having to go into him. He woke up several times during that period but I never had to go into him. Our am nap yesterday was only 1hr 10 minutes. Should I be working to extend this? and if so, should I increase or decrease A time? His morning A time is 3hrs right now. I kept his afternoon A time at 2hrs 45min and got a good 1.5hr nap. So you were definitely right about keeping that A time the same length. DS went to bed by 7pm last night so it was just under a 12hr day. However, he woke at 8:30pm where he was crying and I had to go into him but from there he "slept" until 5:40 (waking in between but resettling by himself). I could not get him to go back to sleep after that. He was completely content playing in his crib. I left him there for a hour before getting him up for the day and he talked happily to himself to whole time. Usually he gets up at 7:15am. Honestly I would prefer him to sleep 9hr stretches and wake up early rather then sleep later and be up the whole night. Should I be doing anything differently because of the EW or just leaving him as it is and going to bed earlier tonight to keep the 12hr day?
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Hi there Jenn, it seems like he might be shaving his nap because of his better nights, he might not be as tired. Perhaps if you pushed him out a teensy bit more you might get a slightly longer AM nap and eliminate the EW. I would probably try a slightly earlier bedtime as that first waking at 8:30 might have been a bit OT if he had a long A time prior. Could you live with 6:30 or 6:45 for a while? That would mean for him to be asleep by that time, rather than just in bed by then.
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Yeah of course I can do that! We were putting him to bed by 6:30 before so I am sure we can definitely do it again. I will try to push out that morning A time a little bit and see where we end up with his nap. The afternoon nap seems to be working well with a 2hr 45min A time before. He had another 1.5 hr pm nap today. His am nap was still 1hr 10 min.
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We had DS sleeping by 6:40pm last night. He slept with resettling himself until 1am which is great. Then at 1am he was crying and crying so I went into him and he was just screaming his head off. I honestly did not know what to do as he has never done that before in the night. I picked him up and as soon as he stopped crying, I put him back down. I had to pat his back to keep him calm. When he calmed down, I left the room and he immediately started crying again so I went back into him and patted his back again. When he calmed down, I tried to leave again but he started again. So I patted his back and then stepped back and stayed beside his crib. He went to sleep eventually and then I left. From that waking until he went back to sleep was 2hrs. DS then slept until 6:40am which is still early for us but totally fine especially given that it was 12hrs from when he went to bed. I am not really sure what to think of that NW. Just the fact that he was crying so much leads me to believe that something else was going on for him. Is a NW like that generally a OT or UT thing or would it maybe be something else. I cannot really think what the problem might have been but you know with babies, it can be anything!
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Do you think he's starting to get separation anxiety?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=62612.0
I think his naps look good overall, but agree with Wendy to maybe try and extend that first A time a bit.
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Hi there Jenn, NW like that for us - out of character and out of the ordinary screaming - is teething, discomfort (tummy trouble from solids?) or hunger. Could it be any of those things? There's a growth spurt again at around 9 mths, he could be hitting it early.
If not I would suggest separation anxiety like Sara said, or just a random event (bad dream or disoriented for some reason...or just he woke and couldn't get back to sleep...).
If it continues we will revisit it but I think you are making great progress!!!
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I was wondering about a food discomfort as he ate broccoli at dinner time and seemed gassy afterwards (he usually does not have this problem with broccoli ::) ) It could have been something like that. He has seemed like he has been teething for the last month but no sign of anything. Possible that it could be SA, as he was frantically making sure I was still there. I just did some reading into SA so I can make sure that I deal with it properly! I extending our morning A time by 10 min. today and still got a 1hr 10min nap. we shall see what tomorrow brings! Thank you both so much for your encouragement!
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Hi there Jenn, yep gas could do it, particularly broccoli which is a known culprit. Really if it is a one of, just chalk it up to baby stuff hehe.
SA hit for us right at 9 mths, and it was like an instant overnight thing. All of a sudden he doesn't want to be put down, he is crawling after us hanging off our legs most days. It must have been something in his brain that went 'click' and all of a sudden he developed object permanence and SA.
Let us know how it's going!
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I am guessing it is probably not SA yet. He did not seem to have any issues with being left and today he has definitely not been clingy or anything. Probably gas from broccoli which is just weird for him as he eats broccoli all the time and has never had a problem before but, oh well! Last night he fought going to sleep but once he was asleep (around 6:50), he slept until 11pm and then woke and cried for a bit and as soon as I went into him, he stopped, turned back over, and went to sleep. Then he didn't wake up until 6:50 so that was great. DH wanted to cuddle with him in bed so I brought him into DH and then went to make tea, get a bottle ready, etc...and when I went back in there (probably about 45 minutes later) both of them were sound asleep ::) so our naps might be thrown off a little today! Oh well, clearly they were both enjoying themselves! So I am quite happy with how our nights have been going. I still haven't taken away his paci yet so I am trying to psych myself up to do that.
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Jenn, that sounds like a pretty good night, tbh. Hopefully the trend continues :)
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Thank you! I definitely thought the night was fantastic! He is just doing really, really well!
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Last night was another success. DS went to bed about 7:15pm since we had late naps due to his son/daddy sleep-in. He did his am nap, woke at 1hr, cried, I went into him and he went back to sleep for 45min. Would this maybe be an OT nap? It was after 3hrs A time but since DS had that extra sleep with DH, I am not sure how to count it? Anyways, he had a good but late pm nap so he had a later bedtime. He slept until 1am before crying and needing me. And then from there, he slept until 6:30 and then until 7:15. So we are really, really happy with that. I cannot even hear him wake up in between those times anymore to self settle. He might still be doing it but without me hearing or maybe he too has discovered the beauty of sleep! In all, we are incredibly happy with his progress!
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This am nap, DS went to sleep after a 3hr 10 min. A time but only slept for 45 minutes before being seemingly WIDE awake. Could he have had sudden need for an A time increase? Not really sure what to do for this afternoon. Maybe I will put him to bed after 2hr 30min? I am scared for tonight :-\
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HI there Jenn, yes he could now that he's caught up on sleep. Or he just thinks he does today for some reason. It's hard to tell sometimes. The second A time is always a tough one after a shorter nap...I would watch him at the 2 hr 30 for sure and aim for between there and 2 hr 45.
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I tried DS with the same A time this morning of just over 3hrs. We got another 45 minute nap, completely happy to be awake so I am going to extend his morning A time tomorrow. I think he must need an increase. His pm nap is around 1hr 25 min at this point with the A time of 2hr 50min (even with the short nap?). His nights are still going really well. Last night was interesting as I was incredibly sick and poor DH could not get DS to go to bed after he woke up at 12pm. After crying for a long time, he finally went to sleep and slept well. We are still working on DH getting him to bed. He will go to sleep for DH initially,but if he wakes up in the middle of the night, he only wants me. This is sort of hard to change as I am the only one who gets up in the nights with him as DH has to get up at 5:15am to go to work. Anyways, our nights are still going very well with one NW in the middle and one NW around 6am.
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Yay Little Ethan!! Sounds like overall things are improving so much...er, despite not wanting to resettle for Dad (sorry that you're sick :().
I'd try extending that A time tomorrow. And yes, some LOs can still handle a huge portion of their normal A time after a short nap (my kiddo only knocks off 10-15 minutes of a full A time after a short nap). Could be the case with him, too.
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Thanks Sara, I am feeling much better now!
Our night last night went right back to waking every hour :'( Every time he reverts back to this, it is so frustrating. Maybe it will only be for one night. Here was our day yesterday:
Wake 7:15
S: 10:25-11:10
S: 2:00-3:25
Asleep in bed by 6:20
Then he woke at 7pm fighting sleep until 8 when he finally gave in. Very OT. Then he woke every hr after that until getting up this morning at 7:15am. Our day before yesterday was exactly the same but he only woke up once at night then ??? Maybe he was just OT from such a short nap. So now, would you extend his morning A time given the amount of NW's for last night or leave it the same as he might be more tired this morning? I will watch him to see how he is doing but he is so laid back, he does not give sleepy cues! (not complaining!).
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For this am nap, DS actually started showing me sleepy cues so I followed them and put him to bed. It was earlier then usual, around 2hr 50 min so about 20 min earlier then he normally goes down, but he was yawning, rubbing his eyes, laying his head against me. So I put him to bed and he woke up very happy exactly 45 min later to the minute. Sooo, I guess I screwed that up! Anyways, I am hoping for a good pm nap although I might be giving him a CN too as his pm nap will be really early. I just really, really do not want our nights to get all messed up again. Last time this happened it took me two months to get him back to this point. Its a good thing they are so cute!
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HI there Jenn, I just caution you about too much day sleep, it can also really mess up the nights. Is he teething or something? Every hour on the hour just seems like discomfort of some kind rather than a routine issue.
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s he teething or something? Every hour on the hour just seems like discomfort of some kind rather than a routine issue.
I know! I gave him meds in the middle of the night as I was thinking the same thing. There was no change. He just seemed OT the whole night. Like not calming down but sort of crashing iykwim? He would be crying and fussing and then all of a sudden his head would crash down and then he would jerk awake again, which is exactly what he does when he is fighting sleep when OT.
I will be careful about too much sleep, thanks for the heads up! Hopefully I will not have to do a CN, I just do not want to have his bedtime to be earlier then 6pm.
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Jenn - has he ever had gas or reflux issues? I agree with Wendy - sounds much more like discomfort than OT (with the every hour thing)
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He has never had reflux issues although I would be tempted to say that he might of in the first three months of his life. Until he was about 6 months old, he was a very gassy baby. Now it doesn't *seem* to bother him, but still could be ???
The reason I am saying OT is because the past 5 months of his life he has slept like this, awake every hour. Then in November he slept well for one week, and then last week he slept well for 5 nights, I think. The times he slept well there has been no real routine change other then me trying to work on letting him self settle. I have charted all of his food intake to see if there is a possible food intolerance that might match up with his sleeping patterns and I have not been able to find anything :-\
I know it does sound like a discomfort rather then OT but I am just not sure what the discomfort could be and just knowing he has done this so much before.
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Oh, no! It's the dreaded two steps forward, one step back. It does sound like discomfort...but it could be OT, too (we've had those nights when we were using a prop + OT...no fun!)
So now, would you extend his morning A time given the amount of NW's for last night or leave it the same as he might be more tired this morning? I will watch him to see how he is doing but he is so laid back, he does not give sleepy cues! (not complaining!).
I would have done exactly what you did, and that's follow his cues. Yes, even though he gave you a happy 45 minute nap...I would have suggested not pushing A time after a night like that. Personally would much rather deal with UT nap than an OT one ::)
Maybe let's see how tonight goes. Perhaps by the time you gave him the medication, he was just so tired on top of possible pain that he still couldn't go to sleep well. ???
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Nothing has changed for us tonight. He is up crying, unsettled and I am losing it. I gave him pain meds before he went to sleep (he was asleep by 6:05pm) but then he was awake again at 7pm until about 7:30 and then again at 9:00 until about 9:45 then at 11pm (gave him more meds) until about 11:30 and then awake again at 12:30 until well....he hasn't gone back to sleep yet and it is 3:30am. (oh I gave him meds again at 3am). I am just really, really exhausted and it is so hard to feel like this is going to get better when he has been like this for so long. I feel terrible for feeling this way, as he is just a baby and is not doing this on purpose. I am just so frustrated. I feel like a bad mother because I just cannot figure out what the problem is. I know i am probably feeling all of these things because it is now 4 in the morning and I am tired! I am really trying not to complain. So many people would be so happy to just have a baby, I feel horrible complaining. When he is 14, I'm sure I will be complaining about him never getting out of bed ::)
Okay, I finally got him to sleep. Off to bed I go.
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It really sounds like discomfort to me, not OT. Maybe give Mylanta Cherry Supreme a try when he's so unsettled and see if it helps? Would help with both gas and reflux and maybe help give you a clue? Do the pain meds have dye? Could that make things worse?
Sorry about it - hope you all get some rest today!
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I am using dye free tylenol. I want to switch him to motrin instead of tylenol but I cannot as I am allergic to ibuprofen and the doctors want to wait until he older before trying it. I have never heard of Mylanta Cherry Supreme but will look for it.
So DS went back to bed at 4am and then woke again for an hour and a half and then slept until 7am. I don't even know what to write, I have no clue what to do.
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You can find Mylanta Cherry Supreme at any drug store - it's an antacid that can help with LOs with reflux and gas issues - our Ped GI had highly recommended it when DD had reflux (she was on additional meds but the Mylanta helped with an immediate flare up). I believe at that age that we gave her 1/2 tsp.
But if it is bad teething, Tylenol really might not help - it's not an anti-inflammatory and teething is an inflammatory process. Understood that you can't use Motrin but what about homeopathics? Cell salts? We have relatively good success during teething using Bioplasma (combination of 12 cell salts) and with mixing castor oil with chamomile oil and massaging it along the jawline and up along the ears (the castor oil is an anti-inflammatory and the chamomile oil and analgesic).
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Jenn, have you thought about making an appointment with his pediatrician to see if he/she can help determine the cause?
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Thanks Karen! I did not know anything about cell salts. I will also try massaging with the castor oil and chamomile oil. When I am out getting those things, I will pick up the Mylanta cherry supreme also. Thank you so much for giving me these suggestions. I really will try anything to get him through this.
So far today DS seems to be totally fine. He is not showing any signs of discomfort or teething, but usually it does flare up at night for him. I guess we will just try to keep him on some sort of routine for today and be very cautious of sleepiness signs and try to keep him away from getting too OT.
Thanks again so much for your support!
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Here's hoping that everything goes okay *fingers and toes crossed*
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Sara- I have an appointment to see his pediatrician but the soonest I could get in is the 29th (so two weeks away). I might take him to the walk-in clinic if things are not improving. I hate taking him to the walk in clinic as they always just say he is a totally healthy baby who just doesn't sleep and give me strange looks for thinking a baby would sleep! But maybe if I keep going, they will eventually help me! But in all honesty, I do feel silly as I sit there with him giggling on my lap trying to explain how upset he gets when he looks as if nothing in the world could possibly make him upset. And he is so good during the day! For not sleeping, he has such a good temperament! If things do not improve tonight using Karen's new suggestions, I will take him to the walk in tomorrow morning. Thanks again for your support!
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Keep us posted Jenn. "If" the Mylanta should help then definitely talk with your Ped about possible reflux issues. But I wouldn't try both today - maybe try one first and then the other? That way if something seems to help you'll have a better idea what the problem is?
I get high quality castor oil and chamomile essential oil at my local health market (Whole Foods/Wild Oats would have too) and i mix about 1/2 T castor with a few drops chamomile...
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Good point! Okay, I will just try one of the methods today. There are a couple of health food stores here I will check today and if I cannot find them here, I am going into the city tomorrow for my weekly trip to the organic market where I am sure they will definitely have them!
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Am nap this morning after 3hr 15 min A time (I went for the extension here as I really don't know what else to do) was 1hr 15 min. He woke at 35min for a second and went right back to sleep. I will try this same A time for tomorrow but would you say this is an OT nap or UT and maybe his A needs to be extended a little bit more?
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Hi there Jenn, it sounds UT but it could just be his sleep cycles are shorter...we have also had some inexplicable 1 hr 15 min naps. I would keep to that A time to see if it's a one of or if he will go a bit longer. Can you do a bit more physical activity before that nap?
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Yes absolutely! Perfect time for the jolly jumper! Thanks!
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How was your night Jenn?
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Karen- I went looking for the chamomile oil and castor oil. Only one of our health food stores carry essential oils and they were out of chamomile oil. ::) I will look again today when I am in the city as I know the organic market does have essential oils. Just a quick question on that regard- DS has quite sensitive skin, I am sort of concerned about putting it on his face? Have you ever had any problems or are these things known to be gentle? I did not find the Mylanta Cherry Supreme yet.
Our night went alright. I will just post our day yesterday quickly here for reference:
Wake at 7am
S: 10:15-11:30
S: 2:30-3:15 happily awake
In bed by 6pm but probably OT fought to actually go to sleep until 7pm. I did give him pain meds but only right before he went to bed (I should have given them to him earlier so they could start working) so that might be why it took him until 7pm to fall asleep.
He slept from 7pm until 10pm, he was only up for a few minutes but needing me to help him go back to sleep. Then he was up again at 12:30, again only for a few minutes and needing me. And then he slept all the way until 7am! I thought about giving him pain meds at 12:30 but he went back to sleep quite easily.
So I am guessing that he might be teething. It also might be a start of SA as he was being really strange last night at bedtime. Constantly turning over to make sure I was there, any time there was a noise at all he would flip himself over to check that I was there. I was doing WI/WO but being sensitive to the fact he is teething. Then he just went to sleep one of the times I left after screaming each time before then. So I don't know! But anyways, a much better night. I really want to try the chamomile/castor oil thing so hopefully I can find it today!
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Can I ask why you gave pain meds before bed? Did he definitely seem to need them? I'm not a fan of giving Tylenol unless REALLY needed (don't want to start a debate - PM me if you want my thoughts).
If you can't find chamomile oil, clove oil works really well too (again just couple drops mixed with the castor oil) but is very strong smell. Myrrh would be an option too. My DS has SUPER sensitive skin but has no problem when I use this on him. I did it a few times on Wednesday and once yesterday. Now it's not bothering him so I'll hold off until he needs it again. If warranted, I'll do it up to every two hours.
My DS acts like that sometimes at bedtime too. He'll often fight bedtime until his "usual" time - or close to it, even if he napped less that day. And he often flips over to see if I'm there. When he acts like this I rub his head and/or back/tush until he's pretty calm but not asleep and leave the room. Rinse and repeat if needed!
He might also have lower sleep needs - my DS sure does! He napped all of two hours during the day yesterday (from 9:45-10:45 and then from 1:30-2:30), didn't go to sleep until 7pm (I tried at 6:15) but then STTN until 6:45 this morning. Crazy boy.
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Last night we had a pretty good night. DS slept from 7pm-12:30am and then at 12:30 he put himself back to sleep but it took him about .5 hr. Then he woke again at 2am and this time I heard him and in a half asleep state just went into his room. When I got there I realized that he didn't really need me yet but when I went to leave, he started crying of course. He went back to sleep quite soon and then didn't wake again until 5am when he was quite wide awake. It took awhile but he went back to bed until 7am. Today his naps have been bad because we have been out to the city, etc but hopefully the night will be alright.
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Good luck, Jenn...let us know how it's going, okay? *hugs*
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Last night DS had several NW's again. I am guessing from the complete lack of structure at all yesterday. Normally we try to plan our time in the city around DS's naps so he can be sleeping during the car ride but yesterday we had an appointment :-\ He ended up being awake from 2:30 until 6:30 when he finally went to bed which was way too long for him. I tried to do a CN but he completely fought it. Anyways, today is a new day. I will let you know how it goes!
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Yesterday went well. This was our day:
Wake 7:10
S: 10:40-12:45 (yes too long, I know, it just how can you wake a baby that never sleeps??? oh and I was jumping for joy that he made it over 1hr 15 min!)
S: 3:45-5:00
Asleep by 7:30
Then he woke at 8:30pm, 10:30pm, 3:30am, then 6:30am (it is taking longer and longer to get him to go back to sleep when he wakes between 5 and 7. This morning probably due to too much sleep yesterday).
So today I will wake him up if he sleeps past 1.5hr for sure. I just couldn't bring myself to do it yesterday. The night went pretty well too!
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Yes, I think he was restless for a bit too much daytime sleep, too (especially between 5-7). Let's cap his naps at the 1.5h and see how today goes! :D
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DS's am nap today was back to 1hr 10min after a 3.5hr A time. I am not sure whether I should try to extend his am A a little bit more or not. When I put him in his crib, he is asleep in about 30 sec. flat which makes me think he is quite tired when I put him down, yet he still does not make it a full 1.5hr (yesterday being the exception, he has not napped that long since he was 2 months old!). And, is the 1hr 10 nap a problem or is it okay at his age to only get that much sleep? Also, I am not sure about his A time before bed. It seems when I put him to bed now he is not tired enough. But I want to try and keep 12hr days so I do not want to put him to bed any later. He has also just figured out how to crawl and does laps in his crib for 30 minutes before getting cranky and seemingly OT at bed time. I am worried that if I extend his A times during the day, the night situation will become worse. What do people do when their LO's get to a longer A time?
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To be honest, my DS (who is a month younger than yours) seems to do best with 12.5-13 hour days and 3.5-4 hours before bed (after a good long nap anyway). IMO, if he's happy after a 1 hour 10 minute nap I think that's fine. I might even try his AM nap a bit earlier and cap it at 1 hour and go for 1.5 hour PM nap if I were you. So if wake time were 7, nap from 10:15-11:15, then again from 2:30-4 and then 7:30 bedtime?
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Okay, is that enough daytime sleep for him? I am having a really hard time extending his afternoon nap. He wakes up at the 40 min mark and I wouldn't exactly say he is happy about it but he will not go back to sleep. He was asleep by 7pm last night and this morning he was wide awake by 6:30. He woke at 10pm, 2:00am and 5:30am (he put himself back to sleep at this one) during the night.
His day yesterday was:
Wake 7:15
S: 10:45-11:55
S: 3:15-3:55
Asleep by 7pm (really, really tired and cranky at this point)
I am worried that if I cut his morning A time shorter then 3.5hrs, he will not nap past the 45 min mark. This is what he was doing before until I extended his A time. And I cannot get that afternoon nap extended but if I cut the morning one, his afternoon nap should be longer?
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I would think at basically 9 months that 2.5 hours day sleep is probably enough. But you'll have to judge that by giving it at least a week and then seeing how his nights and overall mood are. Maybe don't even cut his morning A time - keep it at 3.5 hours but cut the nap at 1 hour? And then try for afternoon nap 3.5 hours after that and cut at 1.5 hours? What time did he wake today?
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Hi there Jenn, Karen is likely spot on. Finn cut his sleep back at 9 mths. I would try to cut the AM nap too, 1 hr. I didn't get on top of that one fast enough and now things are a mess :-) In retrospect, the things that I would try to keep on top of is 1) offering more A time when needed; 2) and recognizing when to cut some day sleep.
I think by waking happy at 40 mins he's telling you that he's had enough sleep in the AM so you need to cut some. For us Finn went straight to nap refusal in the PM, he doesn't waste any time or mess around - he just means business my little monkey lol. So Ethan is giving you a heads up I think, which is really really nice of him. Also, 7 - 6:30 is FANTASTIC so in order to keep that in place it's a bit more tweaking needed.
Hang in there, you are doing so well - I know it's really hard!
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He woke at 6:30 this morning. I am totally fine with that, he just normally sleeps until about 7:15. I think I will keep his A time the same but cut the nap back. I am pretty sure if I cut back the A time, he will only sleep for 45min. Hopefully I will get a good PM nap then. When the pm nap is short, he is a mess. He does seem to be doing better at night time with just a few NW's. Thank you Karen.
Wendy, thanks so much for the heads up! I will definitely try to keep an eye on both of those things. I am sorry Finn is being difficult for you now. Hopefully he will come around soon. How can they now realize how wonderful sleeping is?!?! By the way, Finn looks extraordinary handsome on his blue horse!
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Maybe give a week straight of AM nap of one hour after 3.5 hours A time and then 1.5 hour PM nap after 3.25-3.5 hours A time (depending how he seems). And if a good PM nap like that I'd do at LEAST 3 hours before bed. So today could be nap from 10-11, nap from 2:15-3:45, bedtime 7pm.
And I really think 12.5 days is fine, even good at this age!
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Okay sounds good. It is 10am here right now and he just went down for his nap. So if he is still sleeping, I will wake him at 1hr and plan for the afternoon nap at 2:15pm. Thanks so much!
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Let us know how it goes!
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DS is very hard to wake from a nap! I first opened his door, opened the curtains, took off his blanket, took away his paci (oh funny thing about this, I thought it was becoming a prop a little while ago as he suddenly became dependent on it. Now it has turned into lovey of sorts. He just wants to hold it. He doesn't even put it in his mouth ::) ) DS was still fast asleep. I started to gently rub his back and move his arms. Nothing. I got out the vacuum and started vacuuming and he still didn't wake up! Finally I just started singing in his room and he woke up (yes, my singing is that bad!). He was not a happy camper but as soon as I gave him his bottle, he was fine! So I will be putting him back down for his nap at about 2:15 and hope for a full 1.5 hr nap.
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Hi Jenn, Finn is the same, he hates being woken up. And it broke my heart to start waking him...I mean how counterintuitive is that??? But it was sooo much better to wake him than to have total PM nap refusal hehe. This afternoon he was almost begging to take his nap because he had a short AM, and he's still asleep 1.5 hours later. So I think you will see some results - my fingers are crossed for you.
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DD was always that way too! DS is super easy to wake actually.
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I put DS down for his nap and now exactly 1.5hrs later...he is just stirring! So happy!!! I actually got to make cinnamon buns which I have been dying to make forever! Thanks so much girls for the awesome advice!
Wendy- so glad to hear that Finn is napping today!!!
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Mmmmmmm cinnamon buns! Glad the day went well - hope he/you has a good night.
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Our night last night went alright. DS was asleep by 7:15 (a little later then planned but he didn't want to settle). He then woke at 8:30pm and 10pm. At 10pm he seemed unsettled. He would go to sleep for like 8 min and then wake up again. He did this until 10:40pm. Then he slept until 5:45am which is when he decided that we should start our day. I am not really sure what to make of the EW other then I don't like it! So I guess I will plan for the same thing today as yesterday?
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What was his routine yesterday?
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Wake 6:30
S:10-11
S: 2:15-3:45
Asleep by 7:15
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You might even need to cut that first nap to 45 minutes. But for today maybe try one hour again and aim for a 12.5 hour day. So maybe:
Nap 1: 9:30-10:30
Nap 2: 1:30-3
Bedtime: 6:15
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Okay! I thinking trying the same times again today is a good idea. If things are then same, then maybe we can cut the nap back. You don't think any of the night time problems would be from not enough sleep?
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HI there, I agree with Karen, I would try to stick to 1 hr nap while he's adjusting and then give him a slightly earlier bedtime. I can't remember, has Ethan ever done 12 hours or is he normally 11?
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It's possible that he's OT - the early evening wakings could signal to being OT during the day. But I wouldn't increase his day sleep for now. If anything, I might bring the PM nap sooner - which is why I had today at 3 hours A time - that might be plenty for him after a one hour nap.
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Okay I will try the 3hr A time for the afternoon. Wendy, in terms of his nights, he was going to bed around 6:45pm and waking at 7:15am but there would be about 10 NW's in the middle of that. So I guess that would be 12.5hr nights (just not sleeping for lots of it). When he has a good sleep, I would say he as around the 11.5hr a night mark.
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Hi there, ok so yeah with an earlier bedtime you might get an earlier waking - but you might not. I think it really all does come down to that middle A time when naps are shortened. Because you want to ensure that nap is 1.5 hours so the right A time is key! We are still working with Finn but honestly since starting this we have already come pretty far so I think you are most definitely on the right track.
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Okay so this morning after 3.5 hr A time, we got a 35 min, very OT nap. I managed to get him down again after about 15 min. So I then left him sleep another 30 min before waking him up. Not really sure whether I should have woken him or not. He seems to be in an okay mood now.
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Maybe after a shorter night he needed only 3 hours A? How is rest of day going?
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I just put him down for his PM nap so we will see how this one goes. His temperament was fine during the last A time. Hopefully we will get a nice 1.5 hr nap now.
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Fingers crossed for you. What time did he fall asleep?
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He was completely asleep at 1:35pm. Still sleeping so far so thats a good sign!
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So if awake at 3:05 and considering his early morning I'd definitely shoot for asleep by 6:30 tonight.
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Okay and also, I think he is teething again. I massaged his jawline with the castor oil and chamomile oil before his nap as he was drooling like crazy with really red cheeks. Maybe the chamomile oil will make him extra sleepy.
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Okay right after my last post, he woke up screaming. I have been trying until now to get him to go back to sleep but no luck. He is definitely tired still. Cranky, clingy, could be teething (not sure). So what does that make our night look like? At this rate, in bed by 5, lol.
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Sounds like my DS today. To a tee really... plus mine has lots of wet burps today... Fun... Here's hoping for good nights for all of us...
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Hopefully your night went well!!! It is so hard with these little guys sometimes. Ethan was asleep by 6:15 pm last night. He woke at about 7:30 and then again at about 8:40 and yet again at 10:40 and then slept until 6:30ish this morning. So it was a pretty good night considering he had a total of 2hr of daytime sleep. I think the start of the night was definitely OT. So hopefully if we can get that PM nap today to bed 1.5 hrs, he will eliminate some of those early NW's. I am going for:
wake 6:30
S: 10-11
S: 2:15-3:45 (maybe I should shorten this A again?)
Asleep in bed 7pm
((hugs)) hope you had a good night.
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The night here wasn't great. He slept well from about 7:35-4:25 but then was up (and NOT happy) until almost 5:40 (!) then back to sleep until 7:25. Gave him Motrin somewhere in there as he seems to have some sort of bug and/or teething. Not surprised as I had a bit of a virus last week and DH seems to have it now. Plus DD was up for a few minutes around 3am.
Sounds good although I might go for that PM nap from 2-3:30 instead.
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yeah I think I might shorten that A giving us the nap from 2-3:30. Sorry to hear that your night wasn't great. Hopefully your little guy feels better soon! Time seems to drag on at about 4:30am. Hope your day today is good! Hugs!
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Thanks - loading up on coffee today... He's seems a bit better today but not himself - much of my family has been fighting a tummy bug for ages now - lasts forever. Poor little man. He napped for all of 55 minutes this morning - hoping for a good 1.5-2 hour nap this afternoon.
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I hope your day is going well and your LO is feeling a bit better. This morning DS woke up from his nap at 40 min but still tired so I went into him and tried to get him to go back to sleep. I was just about to start reading this book that I have been dying to read and I had finally finished doing dishes, cleaning the bathroom, sweeping the floor, etc and I was soooo excited to have the chance to read for 20 min and then he wakes up as soon as I sit down on the couch (I had hot tea and everything :'() Anyways, i tried to get him to go back to sleep and he was totally fighting with me so I got frustrated and just left him in there and then a few minutes later, he seemed to go back to sleep! So i sat down and read my book for a bit :D and about 20 min later he woke up (so a total of 1hr sleep...i think). Then this afternoon I had to get groceries so I left myself plenty of time so I would be home before nap time and he went ahead and fell asleep in the carseat. So he probably had a 15 min. nap and is now completely fighting going to sleep at all. There is just no way he will be good for the rest of the day. Ugh!
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Okay, so finally at 4:15 pm he is down for a nap. I don't even know where to go from there. So frustrated. I will pick bedtime depending on his temperament and how long his nap is.
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Hi there Jenn, I hate it when Finn falls asleep in the car seat - he's the same he thinks that 2 min shut eye he had = a nap. Sorry your day was rough but I am glad to hear that you got to read some of your book! That's a major milestone in my opinion :-) Hang in there girl!
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I was very happy to read my book! I totally understand the car seat thing. It makes me so frustrated. Exactly like you said, a 2 min car seat nap = a 1.5 hr nap in Ethan's mind!
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Hope the night goes well regardless Jenn! Luckily, if/when Matthew falls asleep in the car I can "usually" transfer him to the stroller - as long as it's been less than 15-20 minutes. He usually half wakes but then I park him in a darkened bathroom with the hair dryer on cold and he usually goes back out. LOL
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Lol, that is quite a theory! How did you figure out he likes the blow dryer on?!?!
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Honestly, I don't even remember anymore. It's not very BW of me but he basically never naps in his crib. We just don't have time for it - constantly on the move. He used to nap in his infant car seat, now it's usually in his stroller. Sometimes I take him for a walk but it's too cold lately and often I just park him in my bathroom with his teddy and blanket, read to him, sing him Twinkle Twinkle, darken the room, turn the dryer on and leave. Once asleep I turn the dryer off and move him out of the bathroom near the normal white noise machine.
Oh, I remember! When he was an infant and colicky (not terribly so but just enough) I brought him down to the basement while DH was running on the treadmill one night. He immediately relaxed and started to doze off in my arms (he had been majorly fussing/crying)! I tried to recreate with similar sounds and found that the hair dryer helped him relax during his evening fussy time. Then one evening he dozed off with it on! And it grew from there...
At night he does fall asleep totally independently in his crib with only the normal sound machine on!
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That is so funny! hey whatever works though! As long as he sleep at night for you, who cares?
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My thoughts exactly! Plus this way he's more portable - I can get him to fall asleep in stroller pretty much anywhere for a nap, even if it's not a super long one. Night wasn't bad here - 7:35-5:55 with a tiny mantra at 5:05. Early start but...
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Thats good. Yes an early start but at least the night was good! We had a good night also. I cannot stop these early NW's though! He went to bed at 7:15pm, woke at 8:30, woke at 9:30 and then woke at 11:30, then he slept until 7:20am. Nice to actually be up and about before he wakes finally! We are still getting those 3 early NW's though :-\ Our day yesterday went like this:
Wake 6:30
S: 10-10:40 then awake for 10 min then 10:50-11:10
S: 1:30-1:45 (carseat, ugh!)
I tried to get him to go to sleep during this time several times with no luck but he was clearly tired.
S: 4:20-5:00
Asleep in bed by 7:15pm
So maybe I will plan for the same thing today and hope for better naps!
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The early NWs really sound like OT during day (not OT before bed) to me. Maybe try again with that first nap 15 minutes sooner? Still cut it at one hour if he makes it that long? Glad the night went well though!
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Yeah I will try that again and hope for the full 1hr nap. Hopefully I can eliminate those early NW's at some point here!
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Even if he only takes 45 it might be better to avoid OT and then you can shorten next A time and try for 2 hour nap?
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Hi there, just my two cents in this. I think it's almost better to scrap a short nap and move on to adjusting the next A time and getting that better nap in the PM. For us extending wouldn't work anyway but I am just wondering if the extending his short naps is messing him up? I mean like that 10 mins he was awake yesterday was really A time and could impact how his body clock is adjusting.
I guess I am kind of supporting what Karen is saying just in a roundabout way hehe...I think whatever he takes at the AM is his nap...and then reduce A time and get that better 2 hr+ nap out of him for the PM. I think that might be better than having a 40 min nap, small gap, and then another 20-30 mins to make up the hour etc.
Am I making any sense? I know what I want to say but the words are failing me here lol.
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Makes sense to me Wendy!!! How are you and Finn doing? Are you updating your thread?
Gottta run - DS fussy and going out for a walk back later
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Okay, that sounds good. Would you do the same thing if he wakes up from his am nap OT and grouchy? Just move then next A time and hope for a longer pm nap? My only concern with that, is that I seldom get a long PM nap out of his and then I end up with an OT baby. That being said, I guess this technique will hopefully allow his body to settle for a longer nap. Thanks for you input! He is napping right now so I will let you know how long it lasts!
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Hi there Jenn, I thought the same thing when they told me to cut the AM nap back. I thought no way, it's always been our best nap, it's also when I catch up on sleep from EW/NW. I was sure the Finn was going to reject that PM nap no matter what. But lo and behold he just can't get through the day without it and has done a PM nap every day since cutting that AM nap. I got one OT nap since starting a week ago, and that was because I got the middle A time wrong - and the OT nap was still over an hour so we could make it to bedtime, just. It's all up to the middle A time.
I would start at the 1 hour AM nap and then move that middle A time accordingly until he's doing a decent PM nap. But at the same time, I wouldn't be afraid to end that AM nap at whatever he gives you i.e. 35, 40 or 45 mins and just put him down sooner for the PM nap. I think you'll find that he will take a really good PM nap if you have the right A time.
Finn is a month older than Ethan but has always been on the low end of A times anyway.
Here is what I have found with A time:
Morning A before nap between 3 - 3.5 hours, no more than this and closer to 3 hours most days.
Middle A after 30 min nap = asleep by 2 hr 45 mins, after 40 min nap = asleep by 3 hrs, 45 mins = asleep by 3 hr 15 - 3 hr 30 (have to watch carefully here). It may not be the same for Ethan but it's what has worked for us so far.
Final A - can be up to 4 hours on a 2 hour nap but no more, closer to 3.5 hours. If his PM nap is only 1.5 hours I try to aim for 3 or 3 hr 15.
If he does 1 hour AM nap you will have to wing it and determine what A time will get you 1.5 hours PM nap.
I know it's hard but try not to go out while you are working this out. I mean of course you have to go out but just do your best to do it immediately after his AM nap (like be ready to go when he wakes and don't be out more than 1.5 hours) or at that period between second nap and bedtime. Once he gets used the routine I think you will be able to have a bit more flexibility with your middle A.
He will be grouchy but you just have to use your friend distraction :-)
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ITA with Wendy. Also, if he's OT after a short morning nap, in addition to putting him down sooner for his PM nap, it might help to move the morning nap sooner (as Wendy also has in her routine) - that way he'll be more rested even after a short AM nap.
Of course this is all coming from me - master of no routine for the most part! I had a great one with DD but it's too hard second time around so I do a mixture of winging it and loosely going with A times when possible. Luckily DS is usually flexible...
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Thanks Wendy-his nap ended at 35min. He woke up grouchy but obviously wasn't going to go back to sleep on his own so here he sits, on my lap! He has a very glazed look right now, starring off into space.
What you are saying makes sense to me. I think it will start working for us when we, like you say, figure that middle A out. Ethan is pretty much bang on the same morning A time as Finn so I might try your middle A time as a guideline for starting out. I do not have to go out at all today so crossing my fingers for a long PM nap. Thanks again for your help, I think this is all starting to make more sense to me!
Karen- hey if no routine works for you then go for it! Wee started out that way and well here we are...I think I am too controlling to be...well out of control. ::)
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How much was his A time before the 35 minute nap this morning?
It's not necessarily that no routine works for me - on the contrary DD and I thrived on a routine and I used to be a sleep mod as I liked it too! But with her activities (picking up to/from school, playdates, errands, etc) it's just not worth the stress/fight this time around as we don't have a choice most days!
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Hi there, yes it's much different with 2. Baby 2 has to just be resilient and go with the flow. And they tend to manage. People with 2 amaze me hehe :-)
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No choice but to manage. DS would likely do better with a little more structure but it's tough - best I can do is try to keep A times as close to ideal as possible and not worry about exactly where naps happen or how long they are. Like this morning he woke early (5:55) and fell asleep on way to drive DD to school at 8:45. Slept until 10:15. Fell asleep again 1:30 and in a few minutes (2:10 or so) I have to transfer him to his car seat and go get her - and pray that he stays asleep or dozes back off, plus makes it through her getting in car, talking, etc. Cause it's doubtful that he'd take a catnap later even if he needed one/we tried!
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I really, really want another now but I am dreading those things. Although with us, hopefully they will be close in age so I won't have to worry about the school thing for a while. I am starting a day home in May so come then, I will have to be a little bit more flexible anyways as I will be caring for two other kids also. DS will have to learn some patience :P
DS's A time before his am nap was 3hr 10 min as he was fading fast. This pm, his A time was 2hr 40 min before he was getting cranky and rubbing his eyes, etc so we will see how the nap goes.
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Hi there Jenn, let us know. I think if you have him asleep by the 3 hour mark in the morning he will do a better rested short nap. How long is your wind down now? We really had to cut ours back and it's like in the crib, here's your lovey, nap time, see ya.
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Hope he has a good afternoon nap! My poor guy half woke (and wasn't happy about it) when I moved him to the car seat then dozed back off, half woke when we got home and dozed off again for a full 2 hours (albeit it broken) total.
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Our wind down is pretty much like you said. I turn his music on, plop him in the crib, say its nap time, I love you and walk out. I will try to put him down sooner for his am nap tomorrow. So far DS has been sleeping for 1hr 15 min so that is good. He is still asleep.
Karen- glad to hear that your DS went back to sleep. Too bad it was broken up, but like you said, it happens!
Hopefully good nights to all three of us!!!
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Ethan woke up right at 1.5hr so that is good! I am happy with that. So that puts us at 3:30pm so I am thinking bedtime of 6:45pm. That puts our last A at 3.25hr :-\
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Hope you had a good night. Bad one here - DS went to bed at 7:35 (way too late - tried at 7 but kept fighting), as half up at 10:30 (didn't need me) and then woke at 3:30 and at that point was up until 4:55. Hungry then very unsettled, hyper, upset, hands in mouth, etc. I finally tried Motrin at 4:50 but he passed out before it could even take effect. SO tired. Not sure if it's teething, the late bedtime/long day (13.5 hour day), too much day sleep yesterday (3.5 hours total) or all combined but that really stunk! I wish we could sleep in but DD is up and raring to go (at least she slept all night).
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Karen we had the same day almost:
Jan 22
Awake 7:10
Nap @ 10:30ish - 11:10
Nap @ 2ish - 4:30
Bedtime - asleep by 7:30
then we had NW at 2:47 which lasted until almost 4:30 - finally just fed him and be done with it, by that point he was actually hungry from all the mantra and fussing. He was up for the day at 7:15.
I have no idea what's what either here. Man this is a tough sleep age!
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Ugh sorry Wendy! He woke for the day 7:23. Was so tired and fussy (but hungry) and was cranky while we were all out for breakfast. Fell asleep in car on way home at 9:50 and luckily I was able to transfer him to the stroller a few minutes after 10. I did try to feed him last night at 3:40 - he drank it pretty hungrily but was still up/hyper crazy until almost 5!!!
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Ugh it sounds like we all had that night. Ethan went to sleep at 6:25 (earlier then I thought but he was actually falling asleep while drinking his bottle) then he was up at 7pm and then 9:30 pm and then 11:30 and the 2:30 which lasted until 3:30 and then he thought he should be up for the morning at 4:48 ::) so I said screw that and brought him into our bed (bad move, I know, but sooo sleepy) and then after using my body as his jungle gym for 45 minutes, he fell back asleep until 7:15.
Isn't it frustrating how you can have good naps and everything and then your night is garbage? This was our day yesterday.
Wake 7:20
S: 10:30-11:05
S: 1:55-3:30
Asleep in bed by 6:25
It looks like maybe he wasn't tired enough to last through the whole night but like I said, at bedtime he was literally falling asleep on me which he never does! I don't really know what my other options are to keep him up. I will put him down for his nap this morning at 3hrs A time and hope for a longer am nap. See how long we get for that nap and then figure his next A time out, I guess and hope he makes it until bedtime.
I hope you girls have a good day with your LO's and maybe get some time to catch up in some missed sleep yourselves (hard with a second child, :( )
Good luck!
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I put Ethan down this morning after 3hrs A time. He had a 40 min nap but was happy after so much better then yesterday! I just put him down after another 3hrs A time for his pm nap so hoping to get a 1.5hr nap out of him. Fingers crossed. My DH has decided that today would be the perfect day to do renovations to our basement rooms so it is not exactly quiet in here ::) I have just sent him off to the dump to take all the old dry wall, etc. so hopefully he hurries his act up :P I made him go and get me a latte at the am nap so it was quiet :P
I hope your days are going well!!!!
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LOL on the latte and dump! How did the PM nap go?
Quite a day here - DS took a good 1.5 hour AM nap but then only 20 minutes in the car in the afternoon and NOTHING else. Tried for 6:45 bedtime but he fought until 7:12 or so. Plus only had 5 ounces (instead of 7-8) before bed. But he did have a lot more food today than usual. We'll see what the night brings! Hoping to get DD to sleep by 8 and relax. Should run tonight but I don't see that happening...
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Our pm nap ended at 1hr 20 min but i think that was more or less because of DH. Apparently what I think being quiet is and what he thinks being quiet are, are several decibels apart. Anyways we had a good night regardless. The usual early NW's and then sleeping from 10pm until 6:30am. He woke up three times before 10pm after going to bed at 6:40 (3hr 10 min A time) a bit OT I would say.
Should run tonight but I don't see that happening...
I should run every night but it has never happened yet :P
I hope your night went alright considering the lack of naps (and bedtime food!) for you. Hopefully he got in his calories with the extra daytime food and didn't need anything in the night.
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Glad to hear you had a pretty good night!
He slept from 7:10-6:05 this morning. Might have slept a bit later but DD went bathroom at that time and woke him (his "bedroom" until we move is an open area right near her bathroom). He was quite restless and moaning/tossing a lot through the night but never needed me. Think he's up now after 1 hr 15 min nap this morning - if so might be a long day with only a car nap for PM as we are going to see my parents.
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Well good luck! Some days just have to be that way. I know our day tomorrow is going to be a bit off, but hopefully not too bad as long as I can get he doesn't wake up too early!
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Not going... Not only does DS have a fever (not sure if teething or sore throat or what but bottle refusal some too) but my sister is going to the hospital - was up all night with stomach pains and a burning in her chest - maybe gall bladder?
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Oh no! I am so sorry to hear all of this! I hope your DS is feeling better soon. I hope nothing too serious with your sister! That doesn't sound too good :( Healthy vibes ~~~~~ to your family!
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So our day yesterday was:
6:30 wake up
S: 9:30-10:30 (I had to wake him up, easy though, though I think has was about to wake up himself)
S: 2:00-3:55 (yay!!!)
Asleep by 7:10
Then he woke at 8pm and at 9:30pm and then at 11:20pm (he was awake for 20 min here) then he woke at 6:30 but sort fell back asleep until 7am. So I am saying a 7am wake up. I don't mind those NW's but does it sound UT or OT? Like maybe he got too much daytime sleep again?
Karen, I hope your little man is feeling better. Have you heard anything from your sister? I hope she is okay!
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Hi Jenn :) Typically, NWs during the first 2-3 hours after bedtime are OT-related. This is the deep sleep phase of their night sleep and if OT, then they have trouble settling in and getting relaxed enough to take that deep sleep. Maybe try just making bedtime a few minutes earlier (like, no more than, say 10--shooting for a 12.5h overall day).
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Okay, That makes sense. We will have an earlier bed time! Thanks!
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NP--here's hoping, right? ;)
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Yes!
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How have things been? OK here - DS has been fighting a cold. Fever gone (never was high) and drinking/eating better (and sleeping better) but still quite congested. Not sure with my sister - they can't find anything (not gallbladder, etc) but she still doesn't feel well - maybe viral or an ulcer?
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Hugs to your sister- I hope they find something out.
Glad to hear that your little guy is feeling better a little bit better.
We are still about the same. His night last night was not great. I had to run into the city at the last minute as my Grandma is away and the person who was looking after her house noticed a little leak in the basement so I had to deal with that. Nothing major when I got there, so thats good! But it did leave our naps a mess and several NW's. No need to leave the house today so I will get things back on track. We are still at about 3hrs A time for the am nap and then I am judging that middle A time by how long the am nap is. It seems to be the last A time that is not working for us. I keep getting the early evening NW's (OT) no matter how long that last A time is. Oh well. I would prefer him to wake in the early night when I am still awake rather then in the middle of the night!
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Jenn, do you think those early NWs might be habitual at all? What's he doing for his last A time (average)?
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I wouldn't say they are habitual. They change times every couple nights. His average A time before bed is 3hrs (that is after a 1.5 hr nap). I have tried the A time only being 2.5 hr or 2.75 hrs or over 3 hrs. Either way he still wakes up about 3 times before 10:30
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Does he seem uncomfortable at the wakings? Could it be related to what he eats at dinner?
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No, not really. He just wakes up, fusses, then starts crying. Then I go into his room, pat his back for about 30 seconds then leave and he goes back to sleep. Maybe more like a little bit of SA?
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DS has been doing this lately too. I ruled out SA cause it's only ever close to bedtime (like last night he was asleep by 7:40 and did it a little after 9) and then not again all night, even if I hear him wake or half wake (like this morning I heard him at 5 am but he fell back asleep on own). I've heard that these early evening wakings are often a sign of OT - but NOT before bedtime, rather during the day. Maybe Ethan needs a bit less A time before his naps? DS has been doing WAY too long A between AM and PM naps lately - but given my needs with DD and preschool not much I can do about it...
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Yeah we definitely have something wonky with our routine again *sigh* that didn't last long.
Here was our yesterday:
Wake 7am
S:10-10:45 (he woke up on his own)
S: 2-3:20 (might need to extend this A)
In bed at 6:20 but he stayed awake until 7pm
I've heard that these early evening wakings are often a sign of OT - but NOT before bedtime, rather during the day.
Ahh ok...I have been shortening the A time before bedtime, but it can't get any shorter or he will be in bed by 5pm lol. And it keeps giving him 13 hr nights instead of days.
Last night he woke up several times during the early evening and during the night. I feel like I got hit by a truck this morning. I was getting used to having some sleep :P
Any thought on what I should do? He always seems tired in the morning. Between the am and pm nap I was thinking about extending the A until you told me that about OT. I keep getting 1hr 20 min naps for the pm nap. I don't think he is getting enough sleep during the day.
It must not be SA for us either because he only does it at night too!
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I'm actually thinking you might need to decrease that middle A time! One minute 20 can be OT nap, especially after short morning nap. If less than one hour in the AM, I'd shoot for 2 hour 45 minutes A before second nap.
Bad night here. He fought bedtime until like 7:50 (!) and then was up from 2:25-4:10 (!!). Thinking combination of hunger, too long AM nap yesterday and too much overall A time in day. But today is another day... He fell asleep on way home from DD's school run - successfully transfered him to stroller after about 10 minutes asleep.
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Okay! I can try that! It might work. Eventually something will work!
Too bad about your night! Hopefully you day today goes all right and he catches up on some missed sleep! Sounds like you need to catch up on some too! ((Hugs))
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He slept one hour 20 minutes this morning (9:10-10:30) - figure will try PM nap around 1:30/1:45 and let him sleep 1.5 hours if he will... I dozed about 15 minutes on couch this morning while doing dishes and laundry - that's about all I'll get - off with him to Trader Joe's and then later need to pick up DD and cook and all! Let us know how the day goes on your end.
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Sounds like you had an okay morning..? I am glad you got a couple minutes to have a wee nap. Hopefully the rest of your afternoon went well also! DS decided to have a full 1hr nap this am which was good. So I ended up giving him 3hrs A time before the next nap...I figured since he did the full 1hr morning nap, the A time should be longer the 2hr 45min. Anyways he slept for 45 minutes for his pm nap and woke up crying unconsolibly...very weird for him. We cuddled and he screamed and screamed. Then I finally brought him into my bed as I was trying to have a lay down (a little bit of APOP) and we both slept so I feel wonderful and Ethan ended up with about 1hr 45 min nap for the pm (broken up a bit). Hopefully he did not get too much daytime sleep today!
Good luck for your night!
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I SO wish that either of my babes would nap with me. Sadly neither ever has/would - they think my bed is time to play... Not that I'd do it often but it's nice once in a while!
Do you think it was OT or UT for the PM nap?
Day here was OK. DS ended up sleeping 1.75 hours for PM nap also, albeit broken up as well (brief waking when got home from picking up DD). He then fought bedtime some but I think is asleep as of right now at like 7:35. He also started commando crawling a bit today so I think that is interfering with things some... His day was basically wake at 7 (after being up from 2:25am-4:10 though), nap from 9:10-10:30, nap from 1:45-3:25 (but broken up some), asleep for night 7:35...
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I do love cuddling with DS in my bed! I would be sad if he didn't want to also!
Sort of hard to tell with his pm nap with OT or UT. I think he was OT just by the way that he woke up. If he is UT usually he wakes up quite happy!
We shall see how the night goes!
Your days sounds like it went okay. Fingers crossed for his sleeping tonight! Very cool about his crawling too!
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Did you wake him after the one hour AM or did he wake on own? I often find that when I have to wake DS that he's more tired sooner (even after a longer nap) than when he wakes on his own.
DD has always been a cuddler but not in my bed - more like on the couch or sitting or whatever. DS pretty much only wants cuddles middle of the night!
Hoping for good nights for us both...
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HI there, Finn is the same, our bed is for jumping - or more like falling - off of. He has no interest in co-sleeping, napping with me or even being rocked or held to sleep anymore. So he goes to sleep independently or he doesn't sleep. It's one or the other. I sometimes wish I had that little co-sleeping gem in my back pocket for when things are really bad. But alas I guess I should just be happy that he likes being in his own crib by himself lol.
Glad to see that you girls are hanging in and supporting each other.
Jenn I wish there was a magic answer for those early evening wakings. I would like to think it's a routine issue but it seems all the tweaks we have come up with are not working :-( It might be worthwhile to post on the EASY board to get some eyes on it. Hugs!
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Hey Wendy!!!
So DS had a GREAT night - asleep by 7:35. Heard a bit of stirring/grunting around 2, 4 and 6 but only cause I'm a super light sleeper - he didn't need me and wasn't up for day until 6:30. Alas, DD was up at 11:30, 2 and 6 crying with a stomachache so I'm still SUPER tired!
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Hi Wendy! Yes I am lucky that Ethan will co-sleep if things get bad but I do have to be careful not to make it a prop as its just sooo much easier! I love Finn's new picture. He is so clever! I think I might do another post over on the EASY board!
Karen- Glad to hear that you had a good night with DS. Hopefully your DD feels better soon. One day, hopefully you will get some sleep!
No such luck in our house! Ethan had another bad night. This was his day yesterday:
Wake at 6am
S: 9-10 (I woke him)
S: 1-1:45 then 2-3
Asleep by 6:30
He woke at 7:15, 9:30, 12:30 (he was up at 12:30 until 2am) then he woke at 3:15 and was up until 4am. Then he woke at 4:30 and was up until 5, then he woke up for the day at 6:55am. UGH!
My first thought is teething. I did everything I can for him with teething and nothing helped so I don't know. He was wide awake and wired at each NW.
Who knows? Maybe I am just not meant to ever sleep again.
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Oh Jenn so sorry to hear it. I can't really think of anything else to do. Unless he's ready to cut more day sleep, but it really goes against what early evening wakings are telling us. I think his day look pretty good, he may have been slightly UT at that second nap only sleeping for 45 mins but the fact that he then went back down...can also mean OT. He's a bit of a question mark your boy!
I do believe that you are meant to sleep again though!!!
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Ugh - sorry Jenn. It really sounds discomfort related to me. Did the night wakings get worse when you started solids? Could he be having gas/discomfort?
Just had DD relax on couch for an hour (while DS took nap of same time) with castor oil rubbed into her tummy and a moist heating pad on top of that - while she watch Max and Ruby and then I read to her. It should help with tummy cramping and inflammation so we'll see...
But I don't do well with being trapped inside!!! Hard to occupy them both. Definitely see a long afternoon bath in store for him after his lunch. He woke 6:30, napped 9:15-10:15 (woke on own) and hoping for nap from 1:30-3:30 today, with 7pm bedtime (though he usually fights bedtime until closer to 7:30 - seems to be his "natural" bedtime I guess).
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I think his day look pretty good, he may have been slightly UT at that second nap only sleeping for 45 mins but the fact that he then went back down...can also mean OT.
Exactly! I am completely confused! Maybe I should just stop sort of controlling his sleep and let him do his own thing??? I really don't know. It was working for a while there though!
Karen- no his NW's have been like this since he was 3 months old. He doesn't seem to be in pain. I gave him gripe water last night in case it was gas or something. I also gave him pain meds at a different time in the night. I started the night off with massaging the castor and chamomile on his jawline.
Hopefully that helps your DD feel better! It would be tough to be stuck at home with both of them! Good luck for your pm nap!
I don't know what I am going to try today...
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Jenn IMHO it never hurts to just step back and see where Ethan will take you. As you say, stop controlling his sleep, let him lead and just enjoy your Friday. Try to rest or sleep when he is sleeping, whatever length that might be.
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Jenn IMHO it never hurts to just step back and see where Ethan will take you. As you say, stop controlling his sleep, let him lead and just enjoy your Friday. Try to rest or sleep when he is sleeping, whatever length that might be.
I'm always a fan of this method!!!
But Jenn - interesting that you say his sleep has been this way since 3 months. Did anything different happen then? Like did you switch from BF to formula or anything like that?
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The only thing that happened at 3 months was we went on a trip and he got used to sleeping in the car seat. When we got back home, his sleep was a mess. I stopped BFing him around 7 months old. He was pretty much sleeping through the night on our trip and then literally the day we got home, he started sleeping like this! Only much worse. We really have come a long way from him waking up every 45 min. all night!
I think today I will just let him do his own thing and see what happens!
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How was his sleep before that trip? Could he have undiagnosed silent reflux and it was eased by sleeping upright in the car seat that time?
Hope you have a good day!
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How was his sleep before that trip? Could he have undiagnosed silent reflux and it was eased by sleeping upright in the car seat that time?
Possible. He was always seemed very gassy right from birth and would spit up a lot. He was early so for the first month I would have to wake him every 2 hrs to feed him but after that, he would wake up around 2am for a feed and around 5am for a feed. He napped really well. He had jaundice really bad as a newborn and honestly he was NEVER awake! On our trip he probably slept an average of 7hrs during the daytime and 12 hrs during the night time! It was AWESOME! About 2 months ago, I talked to the doctor about reflux and she did not think he has it. He eats really well and gain weight really well. I have an appointment again today...maybe I will discuss it with the Dr. again.
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DD had silent reflux and also gained weight very well (she was super chubby for a while) and was a comfort eater. So don't go by only that. His sleeping patterns hint at discomfort. Does he ever arch while feeding or anything like that? Have you tried inclining his crib or letting him sleep on a wedge? Did you ever try the Mylanta before bedtime to see if it helps?
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Totally agree with Karen. Gaining and being big has no bearing on reflux. Finn was and is huge but he also has silent reflux. I never thought to ask you about that because I think I stepped into your thread around 6 mths and I guess I just assumed that he was already checked out for that.
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So how do they tell? Like I have asked the doctors about it and they say, oh he is big and gaining weight, don't worry! I kept his crib on an incline until he was about 6 months old. It did not seem to make a difference. I cannot find Mylanta Cherry Supreme here? You are in the States right Karen? Any ideas of a Canadian brand one? I will check the drug store again today to see what I can find. I've been asking about reflux since he was about a month old...literally I keep being told that he is gaining weight so well, reflux babies are small! So I finally thought I must be crazy.
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Jenn here's a link:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0
How are his feeds? Is he a gulper or aggressive?
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Some info fits...others does not. I would say he is a gulper. Has been forever. I had a really forceful letdown when I was breast feeding him and he would gulp and sputter. I will definitely bring it up again at the doctor today!
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Not sure about Canadian brand but you can probably order it online from drugstore.com or the like. Reflux is definitely not only for small babies...
DS only took two one hour naps today... And no real way bedtime can be before 7, MAYBE 6:50... Should be interesting... Seems his total sleep needs are like 13 hours max! He did 11 last night and then only the 2 today instead of 2.5-3. Oh well!
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Okay, so I just got back from the doctor. My doctor went on maternity leave about a month after DS was born so I have been dealing with whichever available doctor sort of thing. The doctor that I saw today was my regular Dr's husband ( I think I would like their monthly income :P). Anyways, he did the whole check up and told me he looks like a happy, healthy baby as usual. I told him about our night troubles and asked about reflux. He asked a few questions and then said he would write me up a prescription and to try it out for a few weeks and see if I notice a difference! I have been asking for this for so long and they always look at me like I am nuts! FINALLY! Hopefully this will help us.
Hopefully your night goes alright given only 2hrs of naps. It is hard to get an early bedtime for sure.
We had a 40 min nap this am which ended at 10:30 and then I just put him down for his pm nap at 2:45 (how is that for A time? lol ) We were at the doctors FOREVER! Not much I can do about it. We will see how the night goes!
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Jenn, I am so glad he listened to your concerns. What did he prescribe for Ethan (Zantac, Prevacid)? If you don't mind my asking...did he tell you how soon you could expect to see a difference if it's reflux?
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I'm also curious what he prescribed - am guessing Zantac (Ranitidine)? If so, just be warned that it tastes nasty - many LOs do better with Pepcid for that reason. They usually go that route first before a PPI like Prevacid/Prilosec, etc.
He ended up falling asleep for an unexpected catnap at 5:15 (so wake 6:30, naps from 9:15-10:15, 1:30-2:30 and 5:15-....) thinking will wake him at 5:30 though so doesn't cut too much into night?
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Ranitidine starting at 1ml 2x a day. He told me if it is reflux, I should start to see results within 10 days. He said that if I do not see any results within 10 days, give him 1.5ml 2x a day for another 10 days and see if that helps. If not, then come back and he will reassess.
Glad that your DS got that CN in the Karen. Hopefully it does not affect his sleep night!
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That does sound like a low dose for his age/weight to me but hopefully it helps! How was his night?
After the 15 min CN DS wouldn't go to bed until about 7:55. He slept straight until 6:05 this morning (so overtired night of 10hr 10 min) and then fell asleep for his nap at 9:06 this morning - should be an interesting day with lots of running around/activities later so probably will let him sleep as long as he wants this morning and then get whatever he can later...
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His night was really good. He went to bed at 7pm and then woke at 3 times before 10pm and then slept until 6:00am and then back to sleep until 7:20. I gave him his first dose of the medication (very hesitantly) this morning. Every time he has a good night, it makes me question medication.
So he went down for his first nap at 10:30 so we will see what the day brings. I am just going to let him do his own thing again today and see what happens.
Glad to hear your night went well. I hate days when we are doing lots of running around but sometimes it is just the way it is! Hopefully he gets a nice long morning nap for you and his day goes well!
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Don't feel bad with the medication - you can always stop it if it doesn't make a difference and it will not hurt your LO.
Today was crazy - he took a one hour nap at home this morning, then a two hour (broken up) car nap then fell asleep at 7pm on way home from extended family activities. Got home 7:25 and he is totally wired and ready to rock - thinks he had a catnap (!) and is happily playing on the floor now. Will try again around 8:30 I guess - really just hoping he's asleep by 9!!!
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Aww! I totally have had nights like that! I do hope he's asleep by 9 for you!
Don't feel bad with the medication - you can always stop it if it doesn't make a difference and it will not hurt your LO.
Thanks..I know this but I am always scared lol.
We had a good day today. I let him do his thing and he had a morning nap of 1hr 15 min and then a pm nap of 1hr 35min so hopefully not too much daytime sleep. He went down at 7:10pm. This medication makes him drowsy!
Hoping for a good night for both of us!
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How did his night go?
Yes, ranitidine/Zantac can definitely make them drowsy. You might want to speak with the doc about that if it seems excessive or doesn't ease once he gets used to the medicine.
Got him to sleep very OT at 8:40 last night. He moaned a lot in sleep and was restless but didn't need me until 6:30 at least... Today is another day!
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Our night was terrible. I officially feel like the worlds worst Mom. He definitely had too much daytime sleep yesterday. I do not even know how to begin his routine today as he has been so thrown off over the past few days. He woke all throughout the night and was awake from 1:57am-until 4:29am. Ugh. I ended up giving him tylenol sometime in the middle of that long waking as he really seemed in discomfort or something. So after he finally went to sleep, he/we didn't wake up until 8:10 so now I don't know what to do for his day. Obviously it will change depending on how his day goes but what would I shoot for for a bed time? Do I stick with a 12 hour day or how do I get him back to his old ways? I think I need to keep waking him for those am naps at 1hr. I don't know what to do! UGH!
Glad to hear that he slept wellish despite the OT. Today is definitely another day!
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Sorry about the bad night! I'd probably go for a nap today from 11-12 and then from 3-4:30 with an 8pm bedtime. How is he doing today?
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He is doing quite well today. We had a nap from 11-12 (I had to wake him up). So I am planning for the 3-4:30 nap for the pm. Hopefully we can have a good night tonight. If we don't, I swear I am going to lose my mind. How is your day going?
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We got a 45min pm nap so that puts us at 3:45 so no 8pm bed time for us :(
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Sorry to hear it Jenn! Hope your night still goes well. Day was ok - he slept from 9:05-10:20 (he woke himself) this morning and then from 1:20-3 this afternoon (I woke him). Then he was up until 7:25 as we were at my mom's house. He fell asleep in the car on the way home and luckily is sleeping in his crib now. Half woke when I transferred him and was hyper/playing for a few but I rubbed his back and he fell right back asleep...
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How did your night go last night? How is the day so far?
We had our same old night, waking several times. In bed by 6:45 then up at 8pm, 9:30 pm, 10:30pm and then 12:30 and then 4:00. Then he slept until 7am. So far today we had a 45 min am nap and hoping with fingers crossed for a 1.5hr pm nap. So far, nothing has changed with his medication but we will obviously keep at it.
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So sorry to hear with your night. Maybe give it a few more days and then check in with the Ped?
BAD night and worse day here... He was up and HUNGRY and VERY unsettled from like 12-1:20 last night. Then I heard him half up at like 5:55 then up for day 6:30. Napped from 9:17-10:37, then only from 1:40-2:25 (probably would have been longer but woke when I tried to get out of car to get DD at school). Now super upset/angry. Thinking maybe teething in addition to way OT so probably will give Motrin. Not sure if I should try a CN around 4:45 and if so and if he did take him how long would I let him sleep?
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Ugh! Sorry to hear about your day and night! Your DS usually goes to bed around 7:30 right? I would probably only let him CN for 30 min at the most. How much daytime sleep does he normally have? He has had 2hr and 5 min daytime sleep so far right? But then if he is OT and teething, he might need some more? Ugh, its so hard to tell! I hope he's not too OT and will take that little CN for you! (((hugs)))
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He normally goes to bed anywhere between 7-7:40, with it generally being on the later side of that. And usually has anywhere between 2-3 hours day sleep - seems to do better with 2.75 or less though. Maybe try a CN around 4:30 and keep it to 25 minutes only? Like 4:35-5 (IF he'd go for it) and then try for 7:15 bedtime? I just don't know!!! Or maybe try to keep him calm and do 6:45 bedtime - which is really hard or us but MIGHT be possible.
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Thats a long time for him to be awake though for the 6:45 bedtime, if he has been up since 2:25. Will he make it? I mean I guess if he did not go for the CN then I would try that but I would probably go for the CN first just because he is probably already OT and if he IS teething, his night might be a mess. I don't know! Its so hard to know!
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He has made it 4.5 hours up before - but of course it won't help the OT issue... Definitely must be at least partly teeth cause he's finally calming down now 40 minutes after Motrin. Maybe I'll try one and cap it at just 20 minutes.. not sure. going to give him bath in meantime.
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Oh wow! That is a long A time for his age. I guess he has been sort of malleable though given that you have another LO. Hopefully the bath will tire him out a little bit and he will have a nice little CN. Good that the Motrin worked for his teeth feeling better! Good luck!
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Well the Motrin appears to only have taken the edge off - was good in bath at first but then was screaming again. Tried catnap but was a big no go. He ate his dinner well and now going to try to cook our dinner one armed while keeping him calm... How was Ethan's second nap?
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Hopefully you can work in a earlier bedtime for him then! Hugs.
Ethan is still napping. He has been down for 45 minutes so far so we will see how much longer we get. His day has gone pretty well so far which so far means nothing for our night :P
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I just can't see it happening before 6:45 - too much to do getting dinner ready and DD set and all. And he'll likely fight it even then cause he doesn't have a proper bedroom and will hear DH and DD eating...
Hoping for a good rest of day and night for you!
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Aww, well I hope things go alright for you tonight! Tomorrow is a new day!
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That was such an exhausting day! Finally got him to bed at 7:05 (despite trying from 6:40 on). He cried out at 9:18 but I didn't have to go in there. I can see the white outlines of teeth through very thin gums on his bottom front (nothing through) - so hopefully it's that. He has had some new foods lately but it doesn't seem like that... After getting him to bed I ran to the store to get a few things, finished the laundry, did the dishes/cleaned the kitchen and am now working on taxes and having a glass of wine!
Poor DD got the short end of the stiff today but really did help out keeping him distracted/entertained when possible.
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Wow! What a night for you! After doing all that, I think I would have needed more then a glass of wine! You are like super woman! How did the rest of your night go?
Yesterday we had a 45 min am nap, a 1hr 20 min pm nap and a bedtime of 7pm. He then woke at 8:45pm and then 7:15 am!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!
So that is a total of 2hr and 5 min of daytime sleep which seems short but I am all for trying it again!
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Not so good on rest of night. After the 9:18 cry out he did it again at 9:58 and 11:15 or so before being up just before midnight. Gave Motrin and he yelled for bottle so gave him diluted 4 ounces (half water) and got him back to sleep a bit after 12:30 - and then he slept unitl 6:35 so definitely must be teeth (or ears I guess). BUT, DD was up from 3-4, needing me three times, with bad dreams apparently.
Dropped her at school this morning, went to butcher, got DS to take a nap a bit after 9:15 and just prepped the beef stew and got it into the crockpot for tonight. Still need to finish taxes and eventually start packing for our move!
Great night for you and Ethan! Could he be low on sleep needs? Sounds a bit like my DS (and Brenda on this site's DD too) that way. And/or maybe the meds are starting to help?
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Aww sorry to hear about your night! You have a lot of things going on in your life right now! When are you moving?
Ethan might be low on sleep needs. It is hard to tell because sometimes his nights will be really good after a day of not much sleep but then other times he will have typical OT nights after the exact same naps. He is a mystery! Hopefully it can be that the meds are working.
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We are hoping to close on our new house on 2/26 and probably move the week of 3/1. Same town at least so nothing changing there.
Will keep fingers crossed that you guys have a good day and another good night!
About to wake DS from a two hour nap - didn't have the heart to wake him sooner since he's been in pain and as he might only get a short catnap later - with DD's pickup and all...
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Awesome! Very exciting about the new house!
Great that your DS has had a nice long nap! Hopefully he has caught up on some of that missed sleep!
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Yes we are totally psyched - it's a GREAT house and DS will finally have his own room too instead of an open area right above the living room/outside DD's bedroom.
He's still rather angry and his gums are a mess... But at least he got some sleep and I have dinner all prepped - just need to throw the green beans in the crockpot about half an hour before dinner and serve it all with some crusty sourdough bread/butter!
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mmmm...I am jealous! Sounds delicious! I really need to tart becoming more adventuresome with new recipes. It feels like we eat the same thing week after week. It just feels like I have no time and I only have one LO!
We had a 50 min. nap this am. I woke him up at that time just opened his door and his eyes popped open. So hoping for a good pm nap.
Very good that your DS got that long nap if he is in the middle of teething. Hopefully the teeth come fast and it doesn't last forever!
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We are teething here too, he's biting everything and anything, including my leg! Karen you amaze me with your elaborate meals and 2 kids! We live on sandwiches...last night was a big night where I made chicken and broccoli with cheese sauce lol...mainly because I get tired of wraps and sandwiches.
Jenn do you think the Zantac is making a difference? That was a great night you had there.
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Thanks guys! I LOVE to cook - at once considered becoming a personal chef but it never happened. DH keeps saying we can just do sandwiches or something for dinner since things have been so crazy but I go nuts if I do that more than once in a while - just really prefer to have something cooked and I'm a nutrition nut, so... Last night was chicken marsala with whole wheat pasta and salad, tonight is the beef stew/bread and will make miso cod with mashed potatoes and roasted veggies tomorrow.
Jenn - good with the morning nap and good that he woke easily!
Ouch on biting your leg Wendy! DS was beside himself and screaming on the way to get DD at school. Literally had to pull over and give him some baby Tylenol (try to save the Motrin for nighttime if needed). He was calmer on the way home (15-20 minutes later) and passed out at about 2:45 after 3.5 hours A. Guessing will let him sleep up to one hour, despite the long nap this morning?
BTW - I keep trying to load an avatar/picture but it keeps not working. Sigh.
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Wendy- I am not really sure whether it is making a difference yet. If the next few nights go well, I would be tempted to say yes it is working!
Sorry you guys are all having teething LO's. Ethan still only has two teeth and although he chews and drools on everything, I cannot see anything new coming in.
I am very jealous that I don't live in your house Karen. We just eat steamed veggies and some sort of meat....everynight....over and over again. DH wants to kill me, I just know it! Although I am making stir fry tonight, so instead of just having the meat and the veggies, I am mixing them all together, lol! Can you say gourmet?
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I love stir fry and make it twice a month or so - usually in the wok with veggies, chicken, cashew nuts and a homemade sauce over rice!
I woke DS after an hour - so three hours day sleep, which is on the high end for him. But he isn't screaming after the sleep and Tylenol for now at least.
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hmmm I never thought about adding cashews. Good idea!
DS only had a 1hr pm nap yesterday which put his daytime sleep for the day at 1hr 50 min. Not good! He woke several times again. Ugh. Will this ever get sorted out? Yesterday afternoon he was whining constantly pulling at my leg. I thought it was just him being OT but now already this morning he is whining at me again. I cannot handle this all day! I thought I was going to freak out and lose it yesterday and that was after a full night of sleep! If he is like this all day today, I don't know what I will do.
How was your night? How is teething going?
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Yup cashews are super yummy in there! Currently making the mashed potatoes for tonight - will do the miso cod and roasted broccoli later. BTW the miso cod is SUPER easy/quick and yummy if anyone wants the recipe.
Ugh sorry about your day and night Jenn. Maybe he's teething again too?
Not bad here. DD slept through. DS was up at 2:25 - gave Tylenol and a diluted 4 ounce bottle and think he was back asleep by 3 and woke 6:35 for day again. Fell asleep for nap just after 9:20 and still sleeping almost an hour later. So far today he was more congested but less angry so will see how the day goes. He is pooping more than usual so guessing really is teeth but might get his ears checked if the screaming starts up again.
How was your day/night Wendy?
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Finn was out by 7 but up at 5:11. I think he's just hardwired that way :-/ Oh well.
I am going to cap his day sleep today at 2.5 hrs and see if that gets us anywhere...he had a 20 min nap this morning and so we are on target for our noon nap.
Sorry Jenn...I just think this is a wonky wonky time...6-12 mths...it just seems to be hideous no matter which way you slice it.
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Drat - he woke after one hour 5 minute morning nap. Which would be fine BUT means he'll need to nap again by 1:30 if not sooner. And I have to leave here by 2:15 to get DD at school. Maybe I'll cheat today and leave here early and drive around and hope he conks out in car by 1:25/1:30 and park at her school and doze/read there. At least maybe he can get full hour in before she gets in car... In meantime must get move on and after his bottle/before his lunch run over to Whole Foods to get the cod for tonight (I like to buy it day of) and some more fresh veggies.
Agreed on 6-12 months being wonky!
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Yes he probably is teething again but I really wouldn't know as he just doesn't really give any signs. If this fussiness is teething, it doesn't come with any other helpful hints. There are no bumps, white spots, extra red cheeks, extra drool, still eating and drinking well, doesn't seem to bother him when I touch his gums, I just don't know! Then at the same time, he is pulling my pant leg constantly and every time I leave the room, he has a meltdown so maybe SA. Last night when DH got home from work he was holding Ethan and I went into the kitchen to try and finish making dinner and Ethan completely freaked out and lost it! I just want a break :'( We are doing renovations to our basement so my DH has been doing that for the past 2 weekends so I just have not had a second of alone time plus I am doing a course correspondence so any free time I do during naps is going towards that. My parents are in Asia for 5 weeks and normally the are my lifesaver and take Ethan when I need a break. Okay...I am done now....that should have been on the couch.
Anyways....deep breath...sleep wise...the pm naps keep getting shorter. Any ideas?
Our day yesterday:
Wake 7:10
S: 10:15-11:05 (I woke him)
S: 2-3
Asleep by 6:25pm
Wendy- Finn does just seem to like his EW's. That must be hard for you! Hopefully soon he will remember that his Mommy needs her sleep!
Karen- Good idea with DS's pm nap! I totally do stuff like that just to keep him sleeping! Whatever works.
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This on again/off again low grade fever was 100.3 temporally before and he's super fussy with bottle today so going to bring him in after I pick up DD at school to get his ears and all checked. Still guessing teeth with all the drool and face rash and all but who knows? At least he's loving his yogurt (with fruit and veg mixed in!) in the meantime.
Jenn, sorry to hear all that and feel free to rant away! Teething can make SA worse though - remember, when our LOs don't feel well they just want their mamas! Might be time for a shorter AM nap and/or less A time before PM nap?
Wendy - for AGES DD was a super early riser - usually 5:40 on the dot. Most days (at 4.5) she still wakes before 7 but usually will read books and play in her room until at least 7.
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mmm...Ethan loves yogurt too! Hmm...I hope its just teething with your LO and not an ear infection. Has he had an ear infection before?
I am going to wake Ethan up at 45min from his morning nap. So far he has been sleeping for 35min. I hate waking him up. Every time I wake him up, I question whether I am doing the right thing. I never thought about teething making SA worse. Very true. I feel like such a bad Mom for getting frustrated. I just can't hold him all day! Oh well...as long as he doesn't know I am frustrated, I feel better :P ooh....he is waking by himself right now....guilty feelings gone!
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Back from the doctor - all clear. He's congested but no ear infection or red throat or anything. So guessing is a cold and/or teething. He slept from 1:25-2:30 and woke when DD got in car - so will be a LONG afternoon and will shoot for 6:45/7 bedtime I guess.
I always hated waking DD from her first nap too. I did it a few times and then basically went the other way - used to try to stretch her as long as I could in the AM without getting her too OT and let her sleep as long as she could - 2-2.5 hours if possible and then just shoot for a CN 4 hours later. But she was older than Ethan at that point...
Don't feel badly - I've been getting frustrated here too!
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Glad to hear that your DS doesn't have an ear infection or anything! Yeah I was thinking about doing what you were saying there but there is no way Ethan can survive without his morning nap at this point. He is just too little! Anyways we are hoping for a nice pm nap and then fingers crossed for a good night!
Thanks, it is so hard not to get frustrated!
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Yea I'm glad too - now just hope this cold goes away and/or some teeth pop through already! He has such a running nose and is pooping 3-4 times a day instead of 0-1 in addition to the fussiness, bottle weirdness, chewing on everything...
No - we didn't go without a morning nap - just pushed it out some and let it be long... But again, she was older, probably more like one year. Or at least 11 months I think. How is he after the 45 minute morning nap?
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Oh okay! That makes more sense then not having the morning nap. DS's pm nap yesterday was really good. He woke up at the 45 min mark and then I was able to extend it and he ended up sleeping for 2 hrs total. His night last night was good. Only woke once at 11:30 and then we had a EW this morning at 5:50am. Oh well, at least I got my sleep at night. How did your night go? Any teeth yet?
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Pretty good night for you guys! No teeth here yet though still very runny nose, very cranky and red bumpy gums. Poor little guy. He was asleep between 7:10-7:15, cried out around 2 and around 4 (but didn't need me) and up for day by 6:15.
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Sorry...busy day today! We had an alright day. A 40 min am nap and a 1.5 hr pm nap so a little bit low on daytime sleep. He was into bed early (6:15) as he woke up so early this morning. Hopefully we have a good night.
Sounds like your night didn't go too badly either. How was his day? Does he seem to be feeling better at all?
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Hey there - sorry for the delay, things have been crazy here too - getting stuff packed, thrown out, donated, etc. And figuring out what's going on with my sister - which we finally discovered late today is acute pancreatitis probably cause by insanely high (previously undiscovered) triglycerides and fat content in her blood. She'll be in the hospital for some time while they get the inflammation down and pain under control and then figure out where to go from there - she can't eat or drink anything for now either...
As for us, we've been ok. He's still congested and teething pretty badly but appetite has been much better and mood mostly better too - still needing some Motrin or Tylenol but not as often. Gums look quite a mess but nothing through. He slept a lot today (had to wake him after 2 hours this AM and one hour car nap this PM) and fell asleep much faster than usual for him at 7:25 tonight - curious to see if all that day sleep leads to a long NW tonight but he seemed to really need it.
How you have had good days/nights!
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Karen, I am so sorry to hear about your sister! That sounds just horrible. The poor girl. It sounds like you have a lot of stress in your life right now. ((hugs)) I am glad to hear that your DS seems to be doing alright despite the cold and teething.
We keep having lots of NW's again. Not really sure what is going on as we have stuck to the same routine. I would say at this point, the medication does not seem to be working. I think I am going to give him the 1.5ml dose the doctor said to try if the 1ml dose isn't working. We have the occasional good night but we had that before the medication also so ??? I am not really sure what to do with him sleep wise. This is what our days are looking like:
Wake 6:30
S: 9:45-10:25
S:1:30-3:10 (ish)
Bedtime 6:40 (ish)
I don't know!
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Hi there Jenn, I just split off your newest post to a new thread, so we can get more eyes on your thread...it really could be developmental for Ethan but let's see if anyone has any new ideas!!
Post any advice for Jenn & Ethan here:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=165170.0