BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Mjaz on January 12, 2010, 12:50:48 pm
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Hi! I've never really had to deal with an EW, so I'm not sure what is going on.
My LO is: almost 5 months, but was 3 weeks early, so developmentally about 19 weeks; FF; on a 3.5 hr EASY, wakes once a night for a feed - goes right back to sleep; is a pretty good napper (now!) - usually his naps are anywhere from 1:10-1:45 hours.
So he's been on a 3.5 hour EASY for about 4 weeks - he's been doing really well. He normally goes to sleep between 7 and 7:30 and wakes between 6 and 6:30. For that past week or so we've had 3-4 days where he wakes in the 5am hour - and is impossible to get back, even after feeding.
I don't know is this is b/c he's OT, UT - or what? But I know he needs more than 10 hours of sleep! I will try to get him to bed earlier tonight and see how that goes...but would VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ANY INSIGHT!
Thanks,
Melinda
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Definitely sounds like he might be ready for a full 4 hour EASY - can you post his routine right now?
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Thanks for the quick response, Karen.
I can't imagine getting him on a 4 hr EASY unless he starts taking 2 hour naps - which is rare. As it is now, he sometimes doesn't last till the 3.5 hour mark if he's had a short nap (and sometimes he's fed at the 3hr. mark by my MIL who watches him -ugh). We try to distract him and get him to the 3.5 mark, but he literally melts down at times - crying and rooting at my face like he's starving. He's a very hungry little boy - taking almost 40 oz. a day!
Here is Sunday - a typical day:
Awake: 6am
E: 6:10
A: total 1:48
S: 7:48 -8:52 (1:04) UT nap - wide awake and smiling
E: 9:35
A: total 1:35 (b/c of short nap #1 - generally his A time here is 1:55)
S: 10:27-11:55 (1:28)
E: 1
A: total 1:54
S: 1:46-3:43 (1:57) RARE and needed several shhh/pats to extend
E: 4:15
A: total 1:57
S: catnap - 5:40-6:10
A: bath, books, etc
E: 7
S: 7:20
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To update....(PLEASE PLEASE help if you can!)
LO had a very weird day yesterday - MIL let him sleep for 2.5 hours...then he had a 1.5 hour in the morning, a 45 min nap in the afternoon and a 30 min catnap. I assume this was too much sleep!!!
Up at midnight - hungry - fed him - could not get back to sleep for an hour. Up today at 5am - fed - could not get back at all - he was ready to start the day.
First nap - awake at the 35 min mark, tried for 20 minutes to get him back, ended up APing to get a 1:30 nap in
Second nap - pushed his A time from 1:55 to 2 hours b/c the last few days he has been giving me UT naps. Slept 1:10. Wide awake.
Everything was going sooo smoothly for the last 4-5 weeks. Do you think it's possible he needs a longer than 2 hour A time already? He was crying and rubbing his eyes when I put him down at 1:55...??
So lost. :(
Thanks,
Melinda
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I would definitely try to push him to at least 2 hours A time, maybe even a few minutes more (going slowly of course).
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Bottle feeding. He does to sleep completely independently - in his crib, no props.
I will try pushing his A time. Do you think I should aim for a 4 hour EASY? So would that be 2 naps of 2 hours and a catnap? Right now, ideally, he's doing 3 1.5 hour naps and a 30 min. catnap. Is this too much day sleep and therefore causing the NW and EW?
Thanks..I appreciate it.
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Neither of my LOs ever did 2x2 hour plus 45 catnap. DD at 5 months was doing one 2 hour nap, one 1.5 and 45 catnap. DS was doing 1 hour, 2 hours and then 35 minutes (but he's always been lower on sleep needs).
Like Jane said, I'd slowly push him to a 4 hour EASY and take it from there!
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Hi there Melinda, I'm popping over from the other thread and yep I agree with Jane. You need to get your LO on a longer EASY with less naps...stat :-) Some LO do 2x 2 hr naps + 30 min CN some only do 1.5 hour naps + 45 min CN like my dear Finn. You need to work with what your LO can handle. You mentioned on the other thread that he does 11 hour nights so I would say aim for around 4 hours day sleep.
Their A time can & will jump leaps in bounds in a month. At nearly 5 mths you are looking at 2 hr - 2 hr 15 increasing to 2 hr 30 or more by 6 mths. Big jump between 5 - 7 mths and then again at around 9 - 10 mths. Follow your LO. I think your 35 min naps might be UT.
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Thank you so much ladies....I will start tomorrow! I will try pushing his first A time and seeing what happens. Can I ask one more thing - do you think the fact that he was 3 weeks early should play into this at all? Thanks!
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I don't think so. 3 weeks really isn't considered premature - my doc always said 37 weeks was considered full term.
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Thank you - I do need to remember he IS doing great ;)- I will let you know how the next few days go!
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OK Ladies, well today has gone MUCH better than I imagined it would (yay) - but I DO NOT KNOW what to do with the rest of his day! Suggestions?? Here is what we have so far:
6am - wake
E - 6:30
A - total 1:58
S - 7:58-9:18 (1:20 total) - wide awake, knew I wasn't getting him back
E - 10:30
A - total 2:06
S - 11:24-1:24 (2 hours - had to wake him - yay!)
E - 2:30
OK, so if I put him down for catnap around 3:30, and let him sleep for 45, that puts us at 4:15 - what time would bedtime be? I can't imagine he can go 2 hours after a 45 min nap...We have been putting him to bed around 7 every night, as he usually sleeps 11 hours and we want him to wake at 6.
What do I do? An additional catnap???
Thank you!!!!
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Hi there Melinda, yep was going to say give an hour as well.
In theory they say that when day sleep is cut back, they take on more at night. At the very least, even if you get another 5:30 or 6 waking it's a well-rested waking IYSWIM? And once the routine is working, you start to push the day out.
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Wonderful - thank you so much ladies. Surprisingly he did not seem tired at the 2 hourish mark...maybe b/c of his marathon (for him!) 2 hour nap?? He finally fell asleep at 3:48, but woke after 47 minutes - very awake - smiling...so I will work to get him in bed by 6. Thanks!
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So....I guess I celebrated too early....and I'm wondering what the sages (you!) think....we had the worst bed time we've had in a long time...I had him in bed at 5:50...he cried and screamed and fussed till 7pm. I tried feeding him, I tried APing (rocking) - nothing worked. Do you think he was UT? OT? I find it odd that he finally fell asleep right at his usual bedtime...
Please let me know...I so appreciate your advice!
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Even after a catnap, DS does (and always did) almost a full A time before bed. So at that age, waking at 4:30 from a catnap would have meant 6:30 bedtime (asleep by 6:30 ideally). But he may just take a week or so to adjust to the new times and less naps than usual too! Hope he has a decent night - keep plugging along tomorrow!
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Hi there, Finn could do around 1.5 hours on his CN.
How was the night?
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The night was GREAT. He slept from 7 - 5:30am. And it was the first night *I* have had a good sleep in a looong time! I fed him at 5:30 - he was STARVING - and tried to put him back to sleep - thinking it would be great if I could get an hour out of him - but no - he was blissfully happy to be up :)
So - Is 10.5 hours of sleep terrible? I am going to attempt to mimic yesterday with the exception of bedtime - need to figure that out. To be honest, he really did not seem tired...but I don't know it that could have been OT masquerading itself...? He was up at 4:35 - wind down at 5:35 - in bed by 5:50. So that's almost 1.5 hours - if I was hoping he'd be asleep at 6...
Let me know what you think. You guys are THE BEST!
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Ugghhh. So, we had another good 4 hr. EASY day: naps were 1:30, 2 hrs, 45min and then I threw in an extra 35 min. nap to get him to a 7pm bedtime. He was on track for a 5:30 bedtime and I thought I'd give the extra catnap a try.
Well - he had a very early NW at 11pm. Fed him. Went back.
And then was up at 4:55am! I let him fuss for about 10 minutes, but then it escalated to a cry. I tried to put him to sleep for 30 minutes - no go. Fed and tried to get him back - no go.
So what do I do when our day is starting at 4:55? And any idea why he is still have the EW?
THANK YOU.
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Hi there yep I have the same thoughts as Jane, I would rather early bedtime than extra naps unless you had a day of short naps. He did a great solid naps so the extra nap was too much sleep I think.
If he's awake at 10 hours or more night sleep I don't think you will have any luck getting him back down. At least we never have. They are just too rested to do anymore. You can run your day from 5 - I do it almost every day lol. It's hard but once the routine is working well you can push out to a more reasonable hour.
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Thanks, ladies. I feel like I'm so close to figuring this out...I hope, at least. Anyway, today's naps have seemed UT even though I did the same A times as yesterday. I managed to get a 1:15 for his first nap (wide awake, doing yoga poses by the time I got to him) and 1:50 with some shh/patting in the middle for his second nap. So if I'm shooting for 4 hours total, I should try for 1 hour catnap? THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Is there a possibility that he will always be a 10 hour night? If so, how would that affect the EASY?
OK, here was yesterday:
Awake: 5:25
E: 5:30 - 8oz
A: total 2:02
S: 7:27-9:27 (woke him at 2 hours)
E: 9:30 - 8oz.
A: total 2:13
S: 11:40-1:10 (total 1:30)
E: 1:30 - 8 oz.
A: total 2:02
S: 3:12-3:47 (total 35 min.)
E: 4:25 - 8 oz
A: total 1:11
S: 4:58-5:43 (total 45 min.)
E: 6:30 - 3oz
A: total 1:17
S: 7:00
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Hi there Melinda, I know at 5 mths Finn was not doing 4 hours day sleep, more like 3.5 because he hated the CN and only ever pulled off 1.5 hours to the minute, so our total sleep was 13.5-14 hours most days. You might just go with the 2x 1.5 hour naps and then the 45 min CN and see if that helps you, so 3.75 hours instead of 4. The 2 hour nap might be too much for him.
I'm not going to lie to you lol we have mostly had 10-10.5 hour nights. It sucks but some kids are just like that - they aren't grat nappers unless on the 'perfect' A time and they don't make up lost sleep. But the occasional 11 hour has happened. Which is why I would aim to reduce your day sleep just ever so slightly and see if you can get him to tack on another 30 mins or so at night.
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Wendy - thanks - he *was* doing 12 hours at night for a loong time...so we'll see (fingers crossed!) I will put him to bed at 5:15 and see what happens. Eek. I hope he goes down that early. Thanks for your advice.
Jane - I'm not sure I know what you mean about keeping him in his room and feeding at normal wake up time. If he goes to bed at 5:15 tonight and wakes somewhere in the middle of the night, I'm sure he's going to want to eat. Our "normal" wake up time has been 6/6:30. So if he wakes tomorrow morning at 5ish, do you mean to not feed till 6? Sorry, a little confused.
I am guess you guys would NOT recommend STARTING a dream feed at this point, right? Just thinking if he goes to bed at 5:15 tonight, would it make sense to feed him before we go to bed around 10?
Thank you for your continued support!
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Usually when he has an EW he's starving, esp. if he's gone 10 hours. I'm not sure I could hold him till 6, but I can try.
We have never done a DF b/c every time we've tried it he's woken up and been hard to put back to sleep. I imagine he will have a NW to eat tonight, but once and awhile he goes all the way without one.
Thanks.
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Thanks so much!
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Ok, so last night wasn't terrible...but I'm wondering what you would suggest I do...
He slept from 5:15-3:30 (bedtime 2 hours earlier, wake up 2 hours earlier!) - got up - took a full feed and then DID NOT want to go back to bed. I put him in his crib and crawled back in bed...praying he'd go back. Well, he did, but it wasn't until 4:30 - so it took him almost a full hour of fussing.
Then he was up at 6:25am. So, I'm assuming I go with a 6:30ish bedtime tonight?
My big question is - if he's naturally wanting to sleep 10/10.5 hours, do I create an EASY around that? Or is it better to give him an early bedtime and let him do what he did last night?
Thanks, ladies.
Melinda
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So, Jane, do you think I should keep the feed when he wakes after 10 or so hours or try a DF?
Thanks!
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Hi there, I think he did great too! And when they do good nights and are well-rested, that is what allows you to push your day out. So yep I think you should aim for a 6:30 bedtime too.
If he used to do 12 hour nights, there is a great chance that he will get back to it. Finn has NEVER done 12 hour nights. EVER. So we have had to build our routine around less night sleep. When they are going through A time increases and dropping naps/day sleep, they often shorten their nights a bit but then when they are settled nicely in the new routine it can creep back up.
Keep us posted.
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Sorry to bug you guys again :( Wendy, I'm just wondering - what did your EASY look like at this age? You said Finn never did 12 hour nights, so how did you handle that?
Elijah was asleep at 6:15 (4 hours day sleep total) was up at 12:30 - took a full feed - then took and hour to fall back asleep - very fussy. Up at 5:15am. Would not go back to sleep. First A time he was yawning, rubbing eyes just an hour in. Very fussy/not himself.
If you suggest I give this a go for a week, I am in. But I'm worried about reinforcing an EW and I'm just surprised that even though we moved to a 4 hr. EASY and have cut our day sleep by over an hour - that we're basically still at one NW, and an EW. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the little guy, I don't know... :)
Thanks again for your support - don't know what I'd do without you guys!
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Hi there Melinda, our EASY was a big mess at that age because 1) of Finn's reflux, feeds were all over the place and 2) he fought the CN and I never had the heart to fight for it. In retrospect you can bet I would do everything in my power to get that CN instead of early bedtime because I do feel like having so early bedtime days and days in a row led to us having increased EW. If I could go back, I would have walked, driven, rocked, anything to get 30 mins and leave bedtime alone.
The other mistake I made is not increasing his A time with his needs. I let him lead and he led me down a slippery slope. We ended up going backwards in A time because of teething at 6 mths and it was a mess. So at 6 mths, even during teething, I had to push him. I did set naps and worked on pushing out his morning as far as I could. And we sort of got back on track. We did have some 11 hour nights, but they were a bit skewed with NW for teething pain. Could Elijah be teething now? Sometimes what happens is they are uncomfortable after a feed at night and fuss because their gums hurt.
The occasional early bedtime is good for getting your LO - and you - well-rested. And certainly if you don't get the CN you often have no choice. But I would still aim to keep working at increasing the A times as he continues to have good nights. He's just 5 mths so you are looking at around 2 hr 15 and up to 2 hr 30 by 6 mths. So you need to work out when he's ready for an increase and make sure to give it to him so you can stay on track.
I don't think a week is unreasonable to see progress. Some LO's adjust in just 2-3 days, and others are a bit more 'stubborn' shall we call it and take a bit of time to get used to the new regime :-)
Also, 6:15 - 5:15 is 11 hours so thumbs up there. I know you had a bit of a NW which is probably why he was a bit tired in the AM but I would still continue what you are doing.
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Thanks, Wendy. I'm trying to give it a week before I start tweaking, but yesterday's naps were all over the place and he ended up ready for bed at about 4:45! UGH. So I AP'd an extra UT catnap for 45 minutes and then got him in bed at 6:15. Still early, but better than 4:45. It was 4.5 hours of day sleep, but that's about what he did the night he STTN a few days back (seems like months! HA!) He was still had one NW and an EW at 5:30. The NW wasn't that bad, he went right back - but after the 5:30 EW he was a mess. SO cranky - inconsolable, really! (and he's an angel baby - so I know something is UP when he's like this!) I put him down after 1:21 of A time! And he's been sleeping for an hour. So I guess the 11 hours he's getting (probably 10.5 with the NW) is not enough or him? Hmph.
I really appreciate your guidance. I try to push his A time every time he seems ready. We're up to 2:00-2:15 after a good nap or good night's sleep. So that sounds about right to me for his age.
I don't think he's teething yet...but I could be wrong...
Thanks! Talk to you soon!
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Hi there, just to remind that 6:15 - 5:30 technically isn't an EW. EW is normally around 10 hours or less, could be 10.5 depending on the LO. So I think he's doing really well and you played that hand correctly by APing a good nap yesterday :-)
One thing I caution - and take this just as a caution - is about dropping A times in response to EW. Letting LO catch up on night sleep from an EW by reducing the A time or letting take an extra long nap should be proceed with caution. I did that a lot with Finn and as a result we never got rid of the EW - even to this day. There is just no incentive for them to sleep longer in the morning if they know they can 'catch up' in an hour or so. So I would attempt to push out the A to his normal A, just with low key activity, even just sitting in his room in the low light, dark etc. but not actually letting him go down any sooner if you can get away with it. Obviously you need to be mindful of OT of course but it will just set you back a lot if you let the A times slide backwards too much.
Teething reduces A times and causes NW, EW, nap wakings, all kinds of wakings lol. So if you suspect that at all be prepared to adjust the routine accordingly.
Hang in there, you are doing great!
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Right. I know...technically not an EW, but an EW for my LO :)
Thanks for your advice on the A times/EWs. Makes total sense to me. I feared he was nearing OT this morning and that's why I decided to put him down - of course it threw off our whole day - so tomorrow I will try to push him longer.
I wish I knew whether he was teething...
Thanks again...I really appreciate all your help.
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just wanting to say you're doing a great job, Melinda :) And you're getting such great advice frm these ladies.
A times are so tricky, hey?
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Hey guys,
Thanks, Sarah! I don't feel like I'm doing too hot tonight...HA.
Just felt I needed to let you know that I posted on the EASY board, too. I just feel like something is really off. He was a mess tonight - and he's never like that - so I put him down at 6pm. He's been up at 6:15, 6:35, 7:30 and 7:50. It's now 8:45 and he's whimpering again. At 7:50 I fed him and gave him some tylenol as I had no idea what was wrong... Still don't, actually.
We were on such a good, solid 3.5 HR EASY - and then everything went haywire and I feel like we are just spiraling into EASY hell at this point...
I really, really appreciate all of your help...I just wondered about my overall day being that he's sleeping 10.5 hours at night, etc...
I will keep you posted :) You guys are thhhheeee beeesssst!
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Thanks, Jane!
The rest of the night was OK - had a long NW at 3:30 - then slept till 6:30. He doesn't have any props...so I think it must be pain/teething or maybe a GS? Not sure.
I will try some tylenol tonight right before bedtime.
Thanks so much...
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It does sound like pain (ear infection or teething likely) to me. Motrin would work better for either of those if so...
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Hi there, it does sound like teething to be honest. I know it's sometimes hard to tell but I would still try some pain meds just to rule it out :-) For night I would use ibuprofen, it has a more anti-inflammatory effect and lasts longer than Tylenol.
Snap Karen lol
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Great. Thank you, thank you.
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NP and LOL Wendy!!! Melinda - you might also want to have a look at the natural remedy I posted on the health board... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163394.0
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Thanks, Karen. I am always looking for all natural alternatives. That is great to know - I will stop at the store today for those things, for sure. And I assume it wouldn't hurt if I'm not 100% sure about the cause of discomfort - teething or ear infection or? Thanks.
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Well the above would help either to a degree - although of course if a bad ear infection it would only take the edge off the pain/swelling. I'd say if it lasts more than a couple days or seems to get worse to have him checked out. Do you see any white buds on the gums or are his gums red and inflamed?
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He doesn't have any ear infection symptoms, but his gums do not seem red or inflamed - no. So, I will take him in if he doesn't feel better in a couple days. Since he's chewing on something ever waking moment today, I'm feeling he may indeed be teething...Thanks, Karen.
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Hi again ladies,
Sorry to bother you, but wanted to send an update and am hoping for any tweaking advice you may have...
We are successfully on a 4hr EASY with 3 naps: 1:30, 2:00 and 35 min. - this is what I get most of the time. We're also up to an A time of 2:15. So - lots of progress.
But, still one NW and still a weird EW/difficult early morning. He takes four 8 ounce bottles during the day and then wakes around midnight/1am for a feed - goes right back to sleep. So he is eating A TON - anywhere from 40-46 ounces in a 24 hr. period.
THEN the problem - he wakes around 4-4:30. Yesterday he fussed for 30 minutes and then went back to sleep without a feed - but woke at 5:45 anyway. Today he was up at 4:30 - couldn't get himself back to sleep - ate at 5am - fell asleep around 5:30, but woke at 6:30.
His first A time is totally cranky and completely unlike him. He is an angel baby in every way, but for the first A time he is miserable and inconsolable. All symptoms of teething/discomfort went away after that one night - so I'm not sure what that was.
I am desperate to try and make his mornings better...but not sure where to go from here.
THANK YOU in advance,
Melinda
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Hi there Melinda, what time is he going to bed now? I kind of stand by my earlier thought of cutting back day sleep just a bit. He's getting over 4 hours day sleep now, that might be too much for him. You could even just start by shaving 15 mins off that second nap...like 1x 1.5 hour nap, 1x 1.75 hour nap, and 35 min CN.
What's your gut feeling?
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Hi Wendy-
Thanks for your response. I LOL when you asked me what my gut feeling is b/c I am so tired from being up every morning at 4 (of course, *I* don't get back to sleep!) that I'm not really sure...
Today he had 2 1.5 hour naps and is currently in his catnap. We're on schedule for a 6ish bedtime, as it has been all week.
I guess my gut feeling is that cutting back his napping isn't going to matter. He had one day this week when he only got 3 hours and 45 minutes of day sleep...and the night was exactly the same.
I don't get it ;(
Thanks for your continued help...
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You guys are the best - thank you for hanging in with me! Today he only had two 1.5 hour naps and a 35 min. catnap...so we shall see..that's probably the least amount of day sleep he's ever had!
Yesterday was a great day - today was not - he was pretty OT and I didn't time his naps well :/ Here is yesterday:
Awake: 5:40 (after being up at 4:30 - figured I wasn't getting him back again)
E: 5:50 - 8 ounces
A: 2:13 total
S: 7:53-9:29
E: 9:50 - 8 ounces
A: 2:09 total
S: 11:38-1:38
E: 1:50 - 8 ounces
A: 2:15 total
S: 3:53-4:27 (ALWAYS 35 min. - don't know if this is UT or OT)
E: 5:30 -8 ounces
A: 1:33 total
S: 6:00
NWs: 12:45 - easy, right back to sleep; up at 4:15 am, ate, fussed for 30 min. then slept another hour
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I would like, in an ideal world, for wake up to be ANY TIME after 6am! He had a great night - slept from 6pm to 5am straight. I don't know if it's b/c he had 3.5 hours day sleep, was a little OT or...just b/c he gives us a great night sleep every now and then! So - I think the BIG question is - if he's awake at 5am for the day, how do I start to push bedtime back???
Thanks ladies!
Melinda
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love your new profile pic! sorry off topic but just wanted to pop in and see how you're doing :) *hugs*
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Thanks, Sarah :)
So the major dilemma here - if he wants to sleep 11 hours, how do I create a 13 hour EASY with 3 naps? I don't think it's possible! I had to give him an extra CN today just to get him to 6pm. So if he wakes at 5, I'm back to the same scenario tomorrow... Hmph.
Should I post on the EASY board?
Thanks, ladies.
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Hi there, you could try:
Awake 5
Nap 1.5 hrs @ 7:15 - 8:45 (A = 2 hr 15)
Nap 1.5 hrs @ 11:00 - 12:30 (A = 2 hr 15)
CN 3 - 3:45 (A = 2 hr 30)
Bedtime asleep by 6 (A = 2 hr 15 min)
Now, this means he will likely be up by 5 again. It's what happened to us, we were in an early to bed/early to rise loop for a long time...still kind of are. BUT several things will work in your favour 1) there is a big jump in A time between 5 - 7 mths so you should be able to push him out again soon, even 5-10 mins will help push your day out and 2) this scenario gave us decent nights so Finn woke well-rested and we started counting his crib time as 1/2 A time. So if he was up at 5 we considered him up at 5:15. And the day pushed out from there as well.
It only went wrong for us when he short-napped, or when he fought the CN.
You could also try to limit his first CN to say 20 mins, then do a second short CN of maybe 15 mins at what would be his bedtime, wake him and then put him to bed slightly later in the hopes to reset his body clock a bit. It has been known to work for others. Finn would use that latest CN as part of his night sleep so it never worked for us really. And he really didn't like it when we woke him from what he considered night sleep.
Let's see what Jane's got :-)
Certainly you could see what the folks on EASY have to say. Lots of mums with early wakers over there too.
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Hey Wendy,
Bless you! Thank you for sticking by me on this - I am trying to pay it back by helping newbies going through nap hell :) I tried the 2 CNs today - both 35 minutes - with an hour in between and when we put him down to sleep at 6, it took him 40 minutes to fall asleep. So I am assuming he was OT. Sigh.
Eli would flip if we woke him up from his night sleep, I think.
I've never tried an A time of 2:30 before the CN. He keeps taking these 35 min CNs and I can't figure out if they're UT or OT! He's not cranky, but not excited to be up either. I tried extending today - hoping to give him a little extra sleep and it was a no go. Maybe I'll try to push him further and see what happens.
I'd love to get to a 7pm bedtime and a 6am wake up - but we seem to be going in reverse! But you have a good point - this is probably pretty temporary b/c as he pushes his A time, I'll be able to extend his days a little. The 3.5 hours of day sleep just seemed perfect for him!
Thanks again...