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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: nursemeg01 on April 15, 2010, 01:01:04 am
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Ok I know this is something I shouldn't be even considering a problem but I'm curious as to what to do. I don't want to make things worse (or turn this into a problem) so here it goes:
We just dropped my 6 mo DD's night feedings. She will now wake around 4 and put herself back to sleep (so far so good). She used to sleep from 7-7:30 with one night feed but now that we have dropped it she wakes at 6 and plays quietly until around 6:30. She will not resettle on her own at this point. here's my question...
If I go up there and don't turn on the lights or anything and feed her, she'll go back to sleep and will sleep until about 8 (and then I wake her).
If I get her up at 6:30 she's usually a bit whiney (which makes me think she wants to sleep) BUT will make it to her full 2.5 hr A time. She'll then sleep for about 1.5 hours (sometimes a little less).
In both situations, I cannot usually get the CN in without a fight. SO, I'm not sure what to do---should I count the 6:30 waking as a NW/EW or feed and put back to sleep. When I say feed and put back to sleep, she still falls asleep independently so I know it's not a prop. My worry is if I feed and put back that this will slowly creep backwards and we'll end up having NW again. has this happened to anyone else?
thanks
meg
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We're actually in a similar spot but our EW is in the 5-something range. :P I've decided not to re-introduce the feed since I know my guy and I just feel that he's going to start waking earlier and earlier for it and we'll be stuck back with the NWs to eat and it took sooooo long to get rid of that that I'm just not willing to do that. As he eats more and more solids I think he'll get back to a normal wake up time eventually. Not sure if that's the right answer for your LO but that's what I'm doing. ;)
Have you thought about dropping the CN? That would probably help with the EW, also.
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I can't wait to drop the CN! We're getting close. Some days she'll take it, others she won't. I moved her bedtime up tonight because we didn't tonight. I'm curious to see what that's going to do in terms of the wake-up time....guess we'll see.
glad to know I'm not alone :)
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I hated dropping that you-know-what CN!! That was a sticky time around here. I was so glad to see it go! :P
I say do the early bedtime and no CN as often as you can. That really, really helped us. I was so afraid of what the early bedtime would do to wakeup time but it almost always worked beautifully and he had nice, long nights despite all my nerves.
Keep me posted! ;)
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Ok Thanks! Last night she refused the CN (after 1 hour of trying) so I put her to bed at 6:30. I didn't hear a peep from her the minute I put her down but we have a video monitor and I could see her trying to fall asleep. she fell asleep at 7 even though I put her in the crib at 6:20. She didn't cry at all. We had a NW at 2 but that was a long awaited poo (another story). I thought for sure she wouldn't go back down without a feed but she wasn't interested so I put her in the crib and she fell asleep on her own. However she woke up at 5:30 and playing with her feet. She would fuss (sounded like she was saying a long AAAH) and then get real quiet for a few minutes. As hard as it was I just left her. She did this until 6:30 when I went and got her.
I've been looking for sleepy cues all morning but absolutely nothing. I put her down for her first nap at 9. I went by the clock here and felt like I should have put her down earlier. She fussed for a brief minute when I walked out the room but was asleep by the time I walked down the stairs. I'm hoping for a full 1.5 hour nap and that it won't be OT. She usually has sleepy cues so I'm not sure what's going on...
I'll keep you posted. Thanks for seeing this through with me.
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Actually, I'd say that sounds pretty good! A little longer night would've been good but 10.5 isn't terrible. And sounds like she went down well so she probably wasn't OT or UT (that said - how were naps today?). Good to just leave her to it when she has an EW if she's not crying. She was probably a bit OT last night which is why I suspect she took a little longer to go down but good for her that she wasn't fussing, just working through it on her own. :D Sounds like she's a star at putting herself down these days! Seems like that AAAHH is her mantra? How sweet. :)
Keep me posted. Sounds like you're both doing really well. It's a process for sure! ;)
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Naps were 'ok' I had to wake her up after an hour because my sitter was going to be late and so I had to meet the sitter so I could make it to work on time :( She then was up for 2.75 and slept for 1.45. We didn't get a CN and I believe she's OT because she is having a hard time settling. I put her down at 6:30 and had to go up there at 7 because she was crying. Hopefully it won't be a bad night...I'll let you know how it goes. :)
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Well sometimes that's just how it goes, huh? :/ We do our best! I hope she goes down soon for you and that it's an ok night. Keep me posted! ;)
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Well I switched gears a bit this morning. She woke at 5:30 (which seems to be her usual time now) SCREAMING. I went up there and she was acting really hungry. I fed her (took her off once her sucking slowed) and put her straight back to bed. She cried for a second when I walked out the room but was quiet by the time I shut the door. She went back to sleep and slept until 7:30. So I guess that would be considered a NW?
So here was today:
E: 5:30
S: 5:30-7:30
E/A: 7:30-9:30 (I put her to bed too early I think woke up happy though)
S: 9:30-10:45
E/A: 11-1:45
S: 1:45-3
E/A: 3-5:30
S:5:30-6:10 (CN in car!!!)
E/A: 6:10-7:30
S: 7:30
In addition to BF every 4 hours, I added another solid (GP said I could) so she had solids as part of her activity time at 8:30, 1, and 6. Hopefully that might get rid of the hunger at 5:30...we'll see. If she still continues to wake at 5:30 should I try W2S?
thanks
Meg
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So it really depends. If you don't mind just feeding her at 5:30 and putting her back down, calling it a NW and leaving it as is, the rest of the day looks great. And it's certainly not unheard of for breastfed babies to need a night feed still at this age. So you could just go with it if you want.
If not, I would try W2S. It may work if she's stirring and is just hungry enough that she can't get back down herself. If you get her past that with W2S it maybe the answer. If she's really hungry, she'll wake anyway and let you know, I'm sure! ::)
As she increases solids the EW should get better.
I'm just looking at your EASY again. So she's getting 2 1h15 naps plus a CN? That's definitely on the low end for nap times at her age. OT is a big culprit for EWs, I wonder if that's part of the issue, too. Also as we said before the CN could definitely be part of it as well. :P
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hi Kate! I think she's OT for sure. Her 2nd nap today was only 45 min (1st was 1.75) and I tried to put her back down. In fact I've been trying to get her to sleep from 2:45p-5:15. We took a few breaks, walked outside the nursery what have you but really did nothing else. Then I fed her solids and did her WD bedtime routine. I put her in the crib at 6:20. She didn't make a peep but didn't fall asleep until 7. I don't get it. For the naps she would cry and cry so I don't see why the bedtime WD would make a difference (all we do differently is read a book and massage).
I have never been able to extend naps it seems so I am not really sure what to do. Hoping this works out soon.
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Hmm. Sorry it's a tough day. I HATE those days where it feels like all you've done is try to get them to sleep! I've had a few of those myself lately. :P Frustrating.
Have you messed with her A times lately? Maybe she needs a bump up to get better naps? Perhaps you're getting into an UT/OT cycle where she sleeps well so she's UT, then she doesn't nap well and is OT and around and around again.
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I think that's exactly what' happening. Our A times have actually gone backwards today. She was doing 2.5-3 at times and now it is 2-2.5 max. Do you see anything that jumps out at you?
Sleep 7-6:30
This morning she woke at 6:30 and I went and got her at 7.
E/A: 7-9 She was begging for her first nap at 9!
S: 9-10:30
A: 10:30-11
E/A: 11-1
S: 1-2:15 (maybe really 2, but I didn't hear her until 2:15)
E/A: 2:20-5
S: 5-5:40
E/A: 5:40-7:30
S: 7:30
It seems to be something weird between the first and second nap? right? I can't tell if the 2nd nap is OT or UT. She wakes up happy. Will not let us extend the nap at all.
thanks for your help!
meg
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Hi Meg!
I would think those naps are UT tbh.... sleeping 1h15mins is prob on UT side, plus waking happy (tho my DD seems to wake happy or at least be happy to see me when i get her now whatever the nap... thay are becoming so much more sociable aren't they, that we can usually cheer her up unless its chronic OT!)
its so difficult isn't it?! at the 3/4month mark i was really wishing time away to 2 nap world, now i'm really looking forward to 1 nap or even moving towards more of a set schedule for nap times from about 7months ish (seen some people are managing htis successfully from the naps board)
even tho she's acting tired could u try pushing her A times a bit more, keeping it low key? then at least u can try and get more of a 11.5/12 hour day in with 2 sleeps and hopefully she'll give u longer naps...?
:P xx
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Thanks Anna. Will try today. I guess I have two questions:
if she stirs at 6, starts making noises off and on at 6:30 but I don't go get her until 7--when do I count the A time as starting? This morning that's exactly what I did but I counted the A time at 6:30 and put her down at 9:15.
What is a 45 min nap? UT or OT? I agree she may fuss when she first wakes but if I walk in there she smiles (regardless of OT or UT).
thanks so much. I will try to extend and see what happens!
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hmmm.... i think 45min are always UT. like they're not tired enough to go back to sleep once they've stirred at that point.
i always find the first A difficult, if i've been half asleep when first heard her its diff to remember exact time or if she dozed back off for a while. i tend to cont it from when i first heard her, but if its dead early i try to push the first A out as much as poss to get the day out as long as possible, so would aim for 2h50min mark before i put her to bed.
i think i'd have counted that first A as from 6.30 too, but keeping an eye on sleepy cues (tho theyre not as reliable anymore i am finding!) so yeah... i'd have put her down at 9.15 too, and really hoped for a 2h sleep!
also... sometimes my DD will stir at 45min and coo to herself for up to 20mins before going back to sleep... so even if sometimes it doesnt sound like she'll be going back to sleep i leave her a full 20mins or until she starts crying before i go and get her...
xx
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I agree, I think she needs more A time and that the underlying problem is UT. Let us know how that change goes.
I would start the A time from when you consistently hear her making noises - sounds like that's 6:30. If she stirs at 6 but you think she's probably going back down until 6:30 I would just start it then. Some people count the time in the crib before you go to get them as 1/2 A time but that never really worked for us. When my guy is up, he's up! He doesn't really rest even if he's in the crib in the dark, he's flailing around, etc!! ::)
I think traditional wisdom would say 45 is an OT nap but again, I have trouble going on that. I usually go by the first thing I hear on the monitor. If it's screaming/crying I have had an OT nap on my hands, if it's babbling it's UT. That has almost always worked for me.
;)
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Well we had a little detour today. My usual sitter canceled and I had to use my back up plan. My sweet DD only slept for 45 min (and OT) for her 2nd nap. She did not take a CN either. needless to say, she is down for the night at 6 pm. I'm sure I'll be battling the OT monster tomorrow but after she recovers I'll start to slowly bump the A time.
I have the most difficult time distinguishing OT vs UT for the 45 min nap. She usually wakes happy and smiles when I walk in the room. I determine if it's OT if she gets whiney shortly after being up. Either way, it's hard for me to get her back down so I really have to get the A times right the first go round. when do A times start settling down and you can get an ideal 'time?'
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Nursemeg, it will be interesting to see what the 6PM bedtime gives you for your EW. I had struggled much the same way you did, and it turned out my LO changed her schedule and wanted to sleep from 6 or 6:15 to 6:30 the next morning, and wanted two 1.5 hr naps in the day. Took about a month for her to settle into a schedule. Growth spurt disrupted it, teeth disrupted it, and now for 6 glorious weeks we have regularity. Except now she's on for a 2 hour + nap this afternoon, and I'm wondering why.
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Thanks muddyfeet. Part of me was waiting for her to wake up at 6:45 thinking that her bedtime was a CN...but she seems down for the night. I hope this poor girl gets some sleep. I'll let you know about the EW. I was planning on bumping up her bedtime anyways but didn't expect it to be because of OT...
thanks for advice everyone!
Meg
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Well the good news is she slept from 6-6!!! got her up at 6:30 and she was super fussy (weird huh?) 1sr nap 9-10:20. Tried to extend A for 2nd nap, man did that backfire. put her down at 1:10 (no sleepy cues, did BTC) played with her feet, no crying until 1:40! started crying then but of course I was pumping!!! She cried until 2:20! I didn't know what to do because she'd stop and start. i was standing outside her door and then she'd stop. I'd go downstairs and she'd start up again. I ended up leaving her alone and she fell asleep. She woke up 20 min later (obviously OT!). My plan now is to feed her and start the process again. I just can't seem to find the right A times.
I guess I'll put her to bed at 6 again. If she's going to wake up at 6 regardless, she might as well get 12 hours of sleep.
sigh. I'm feeling really frustrated today. My friend who did BW doesn't seem to have any of these problems.
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I hear your frustration...you just have to remember that every baby's different.
the 6-6 sleep time is GOOD news. If she can do that consistently, you may be settling soon into a regular schedule.
Keep your chin up!
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Ok, we went outside and ran some errands. I needed to get out instead of trying for hours to get her to sleep in the nursery. I thought she'd CN in the car but nothing!!! Except for her 20 min nap, she's been up since 10:30! I started her WD at 5:30 with a plan for bedtime at 6. I put her in the crib at 6 but she didn't fall asleep until 6:45. No crying at all this time though. I'm just not sure what is going on here. Where should I start? IF she STTN do I start with a full A assuming that she is caught up or a reduced A?
I was supposed to be extending A times thinking that she was UT, so if I typically do a 2.5 hour A, should I do a 2.75?
thanks
Meg
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ohhhh i dont know! poor you. god its so awful trying everything u cn an sometimes it seems like nothing works!
strange she didnt sleep in car tho i think my DD the same if she totally wired thru OT she just cant switch off unless in car for like an hour!
not sure but i'd think to start the day as normal if she has a good night, thinking she'd have caught up from the bad day previous... but i'm not confident in that! but surely she'd have caught up after like 12h sleep??
i'd just push by 5-10mins if i was you. its so weird my DD has gone backwards last few days. did 2h 35 this AM and yesterday. tho still did 1h45m and a 2h nap so kept the day pretty even...
good luck sorry its a struggle atm xx
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Well she slept until 6:30---I went up there and fed her before turning on the light. We sat in the dark for about 5 minutes after feeding/burping and she was sighing. She ended up taking a CN on me this morning. I've never done that before (since teaching her BW) and I am glad I had this moment. I think we both needed some snuggle time. Hopefully that will not mess us up too much. So at 7:15 we've started our day. She is currently sitting in her bouncy seat and so happy. I know she is well-rested now so my plan is to slowly extend these A times. I guess we'll see what happens.
I have to run an errand today so the sitter is coming. She does BW and maybe she'll be the one who can get her to sleep this afternoon! I'll only be gone for 2 hours so at least I can fix it if she doesn't.
thanks for the advice---hopefully today will be a better day! I can't thank you enough ladies.
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Glad to hear she's sleeping better overnight. It's really counter-intuitive but those early bedtimes really can work wonders! I wouldn't worry too much about this morning. I would just think of it as a NW and consider the day starting at 7:15 as you said. I don't imagine it will mess things up too much. GL to the sitter. Hopefully she'll have good naps today and you'll be on a great routine! ;)
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i certainly wouldn't worry about the AP'd CN this morning... i always felt like i'd missed out a lot on the sleeping together thing since starting BW at 8wks so very occasionally i'd bring her in bed with me for a sneaky cuddly nap (don't tell anyone LOL!)
glad the night went ok and hope things have gone ok with A times today. Alexa seemed extra tired again today and only managed 2h35 A time this AM but followed it with (i am guessing UT nap) of 1h20mins so our day has been a bit short!
xx
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Hi ladies,
Today is going great so far. She slept for almost 2 hours with the first nap and then up for 2.5 of A and asleep for 1.5 so far. Hopefully all will be well! I'll let you know how the rest goes...
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Oh I meant to add that Anna, I think you do have UT. We went through the same thing right before the 6 month mark where we had a BIG jump in A time....might be time to bump up!
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glad youre having a good day! : D
yep defo UT... but its weird how she seems to struggle sometimes and A times are inconsistent atm... we were easily doing 2h50mins ish then theyve dropped the lase few days. think i need to push it with extra WD. what A times did u move up to?
xx
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So we went backwards to. When she was almost 6 months we made a HUGE jump from 1.75-2.5. I didn't even do the 15 min increments. I was trying to increase her from 1.75-2 and when that wasn't working I just played with A times until 2.5. Now we have gone backwards this week too. We were moving on up to 2.75 but are now back to 2.5. this morning if I count 7:15 as the time she made it to 2.5. For the second A she went a little over 2.5. so weird. Maybe it's the volcanic ash messing with sleep cycles or something :)