BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: NewMom1981 on May 25, 2010, 11:17:18 am
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I have a 3.5 mo that formerly slept great through the night...DF then 1 night feed then feed at 7am. Not anymore!
She is on the 3 hour EASY. She definitely wakes through the "45 minute" jolts, but I can put her back to sleep by picking up and rocking for 5 minutes (shh/pat seemed to awaken her more), or having her down in her crib and holding her body so she doesn't jolt awake. She used to settle quite easily with 5 mintues or so of rocking and shhhing. Yesterday she layed in her crib from 7:15 to 9pm not sleeping at bedtime! She has her 3 naps a day (usuallly 2 are 1.5 hours, and one is 1 hour) plus her cat nap before her bath. She does use a paci to fall asleep with it sometimes falling out of her mouth while sleeping and sometimes not.
I have extended her A time to 1 hr and 10 minutes then a 5- 10 minute wind down, which is right on for her age, and I don't think I can extend it anymore...she has given me all the tired cues and needs to sleep at this point.
My question is...she has been waking for the past week and a half twice at night, "following" a 2.5 - 3 hour eating schedule. I DF at 10-11, then she is up anywhere between 1-2, and then 3:30-4:30 then lately is up at 6 to try to start her day! AHHH!!! I do feed her during the night and she seems to take full feeds, thus is it hunger?
Last night she was up from 4:30am to 5:30am, something she has NEVER done before! Is this normal for babies at some point in time? Am I expecting too much?
So, I guess my questions are:
1. How do I get her to stop the night wakings? Is it related to hunger?
2. Can a growth spurt really last over a week?
3. Did I accidental parent with "rocking", and if so, do I need to fix it now?
4. Are her nap times and A times approriate for her age?
5. Is the EW a result of the NW???
Sorry for all of the questions, but I need help!! Thanks sooo much in advance :)
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Hi there, what sometimes happens after the growth spurt is that they become a bit habitual...they get tired at their old A times when really they are ready for an increase.
A times for LO's:
3 months 1 hour and 20 - 30 mins
4 months 1 hour and 45 - 2 hours
So at 3.5 mths I would expect her to be somewhere between 1 hr 30 - 1 hr 45 and probably creeping to 2 between 4/4.5 mths and a moving towards a 4-hr EASY.
Growth spurts can last longer than a week, if she's taking full feeds I would probably continue to feed her. Bottle or breast?
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Thanks for your reply!!
I EBF her. Yesterday, I DF her at 10:30. Then she awoke at 1:45am and 4am and 6:30am for the day, even though I want to start her day and feed her at 7am. She took a full feed at 1:45am, then barely anything at 4am, which seems to me might be habitual??? I am also attempting to wean her from swaddling, because she breaks out of it every night!
Also, she takes her CN from 5:30pm until 6:15pm or so. I feed her at 6:15pm, with the previous feeding being at 4pm. So at 6:30 she is finished eating and time for bath. Bed is anywhere between 7 and 7:30 depending on the night. BUT.....I can't get her to eat before bed (obviously I think, she just at an hour ago!!) So her last feed before bed is 6:15pm. But if she is sleeping at 8 or so, I don't want to wake her and feed her then! Ahh! I just thought I should let you know, maybe that has something to do with her NW and maybe EW??
Thanks so much for your reply!!!! Any help and advice is greatly appreciated :)
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Can you describe your day in this format with your approximate timings?
E 7am
A 7-8:30
S 8:30-10
E
A
S.....
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I found the same with that last feed when i was trying to do a split feed - one side at 6pm and the other just before 7pm. So instead i wake at 6ish then do bath and play, then full feed from 6.30 to 7pm and down for bed. Worked better for us in getting that last feed in and is much closer to the 3hr mark.
No help on your NW - we are having the same issues hence why i'm reading your post. I'm thinking ours are also habitual post the GS, but have no way of settling him back to sleep in the night - either feed or have him crying for an hour at a time. I'm going to try reducing the amount taken at the middle of night feeds by 5 mins each night over next few nights to see if it really hunger. Vaguely remember that being a way to get rid of night feeds but never tried it myself.
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HI again!
Thanks for replying AngelaMK1...we should keep each other posted in our successes!
As for EASY: ***This is what I want to happen*** but times can vary 1 half hour earlier if she wakes from hr nap earlier...
E 7am
A 7am -8:30
S 8:30
E 10am
A 10- 11:30
S 11:30
E 1
A 1pm- 2:30
S 2:30
E 4
A 4-515
S 515-6 (CN)
E 6
A 6-730 (bath)
S 7:30- 7:45
DF: anywhere between 10- 1130
NW always 1am (very hungry, full feed), tried to settle for 45 mins...didn't work so feed!
NW always 4am (50% hungry) tried to let her settle for an hour...didn't work so I fed
EW 5:30 stirs, I put her back to sleep
EW 6am stirs again, will put her back
EW 6:30, if she wakes again, I will start her day by 6:30 instead of 7 and start 1/2 hr earlier for everything
*Pre GS she would DF at 10:30, feed at 4:30 then up at 7am on the dot! Where did this little girl go!?!?
Also, she will be 4 months on Jun 9, so what are your recommendations for the 4/4 switch, when she seems soooo hungry by 3 hours??
Thanks SO much :)
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BF babies can take longer to get to 4 hours between feeds, some never make it there. I am wondering though, if your baby could handle a little more time between feeds (a slow increase in time) and may take a better feed then, which will, in turn, pack more day calories in and maybe decrease the night calories.
Are you at 1.5 hours A time and 1.5 hour naps? You may want to slowly push out the A times as well....
Wondering if the NW are partially due to not enough A during the day, especially if she is only feeding at 50% at that 4am feed. Also, you are aiming for a 12 hour day, so if she is waking at 6:30/7, you are looking at 7 for bedtime.
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Thanks for your helpful hints RachelC.
So these are the ideas I will try:
1) Increase A times to 1:45 mins. I will start her wind down at 1:35 mins or so to allow for 10 mins to fall asleep
2) Push back her feeds to 3:15 mins, then 3:30 hrs....
My questions are:
Should I try to soothe her back to sleep for the 4am feed?
How long should she nap for during the day? Something like this?
E 7am
A 7am -8:45am
S 8:45-10:30 (1 hr 45 mins) etc.....
BUT, She rarely sleeps for 1:45 mins....she is definitely waking through the 45 min jolts, maybe I can get another 20 minutes out of her. So if she wakes After 1hr 20 minutes, then does her next cycle start when she wakes up?? Or do I wait to feed her until her "official 3hr and 30 minutes" are up?
Thanks for your time and help on this :)
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How does she feed at 7?
Waking twice overnight isn't that unusual, but if she's not feeding at 100%, she may not be waking due to hunger. Is it always 4am? Maybe wake to sleep would help get over that wake up. I can't find the link right now, but basically you set your alarm for 1 hour prior to her waking time (so at 3am), sneak into her room and just jostle her enough to disturb her sleep cycle. Do that 3 days in a row and hopefully it will help her through that waking, if it is habitual and not hunger.
Yes, that sleep timing looks good! If you scroll all the way down to the last routine here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164027.0 you will find a routine for a 12 week old. Remember, she's not going to fit into this perfectly and no two days will be exactly the same, but it's a goal.
I will ask a nap mod to jump in about naps... not my forte ;)
I would work on pushing out her feeds to the 3:15/30 mark even if she wakes earlier, but if she's starving, feed her. You could always go smaller increments.... 3:05/10 for a few days.
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She takes a full feed at 7am.
Thanks for your info! I have read other posts and there was a link to a "kelly website" and she said that 2 NW are common, as you said as well. Should I just "not sweat the small stuff" and she will eventually sleep through when she is ready? Or, if I don't cut out a NW if it's NOT due to hunger, will this create a habit of NW?
I will W2S and see how that works. I've tried it for naps, but it didn't work. With that being said, I woke her at the 30 min mark so she wouldn't get her "jolt" at 45 min....but no dice! She turned her head left to right when I stoked her cheek but then awoke at 45 mins on the dot...did I wake her enough??
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Ah yes, kellymom ;)
Well, it depends....
That 4am feed sounds like habit more than hunger, so you could tackle it now and get longer sleep or let it run its course. The fact that she used to sleep through this also leads me to think habit. Beware though, the 4month growth spurt is around the corner ;)
I know the nap W2S is different than the night W2S and I couldn't do the nap one, but the night one always worked with both my girls.
Working on getting nap help for you too!
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Hi there newmom!!
just a few questions for the napping situation:
what is she like when she wakes at the 45min mark? crying, happy, chatty??
does she take a paci?
do you use white noise?
is the room darkened?
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Hi Calebsmummy!
- 75% of the time her eyes are open at the 45 min mark and are definitely still sleepy, 25% she is happy and chatty (but I think I may not have gotten to her in time to still be sleepy).
- Yes she takes a paci and she loves it!
- Yes I use a white noise machine
- Yes her room is darkened!
For the last 2 days, I have increased her A time to 1 hr and 45 mins. This has helped. Her 45 min jolt has been pushed back to an hour...coincidence? Her first 2 naps are great, third is not good, and the CN is hit or miss if her thrid nap is only 45 mins
She is really tired when she goes to sleep- falls alseep in less than 5 mins for first 2, thrid and CN is a struggle to put her down sometimes.
My new EASY (between 3.5 hrs is)
E 6:30am
S 8:15am- 9:45am (I try for 10 am but can't get those last 15 mins!)
E 10am
S 11:45am- 1pm (since she can't nap to 1:30...we have A time before her next E)
E 1:30pm
S 3:15pm-5pm (BUT yesterday she woke after 45 mins...so up at 4pm to throw everything off!)
E 5pm
A Bath 6:30
E Try to get a feed in before sleep at 7pm
S 7pm
I know I am missing a CN, but where do I put it when she goes to bed at 7...and ALWAYS wakes at 6:30am?????
Thanks for your help :) Much appreciated
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I think stick with that new routine a couple of days and then push it out another 15mins, she seems to be ready for the 4 hour EASY and i think that because you cant get that CN in, however she does seem slightly OT by the end of the day. ITs not really an EW if shes going to bed at 7pm and waking at 6.30am but i know that you want it to be a 7am start right>?
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thanks for your reply!
yes, I do want it to be a 7am start....she "goes" to bed at 7, or earlier if she hasn't napped well or is OT, but she doesn't fall asleep until 8, 830 or sometimes even 9...that's why I considered it EW, when she hasn't gotten close to her 12 hours...am I correct to assume this?
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yes an EW is more towards 10 hours a night. i think if you go for an earlier bedtime though you *might* find that she doesnt wake any earlier, or even that shes so well rested she sleeps till 7am. you may as well give it a shot :)
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What is she doing when she doesn't fall asleep until so late?
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When she doesn't sleep at first at night, she is doing 1 of 2 things....either awake and just laying there....waiting to go to sleep it appears. Or, fussing...not "crying" just getting to sleep. Not her Mantra cry, more "upset" than that, but not super upset. SHe takes a paci to go to sleep, and sometimes it falls out and she wants it back. I do the shh/pat and that works most times lately. If I pick her up, she immediately gets comfy and will go to sleep in my arms....what to do????
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So it's not a mantra cry... is it a true "I need you" cry? If you let it go, does it turn into one?
Perhaps it's time to wean the paci? Unless she is mega upset, I would avoid picking her up, stick with the pat/shh.