BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Tao on June 26, 2010, 16:08:17 pm
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Hello There,
My DD is 14.5 months old and I need help getting her back on track and off that OT loop that I believe she is in. A few weeks back she became very clingy and would refuse her two naps by standing in the corner of her crib for an hour crying while I did WI/WO. With the help of some wonderful mommies, I soon realized that she was ill and because she needed it, so started sleeping nicely on two naps. However, the minute she got well again the 3.5 hour A time before both naps didn't work anymore and p.m. nap refusal began again. She's been waking earlier and earlier in the a.m. now which is very typical when she has OT and I would greatly appreciate any insight on how to get her back on track. Here are some past routines:
Before Illness:
5:30 Wake
9:40-10:10 Nap
1:50-3:00 Nap
6:30 BT
During Illness:
6:00 Wake
9:30-10:00 Nap
1:30-300 Nap
6:30 BT
For the past 4 days:
5:30 Wake
9:45-10:15 Nap
1:45 Will put her down for Nap #2 but starts standing, screaming and waiting for me. DH goes into to WIWO and still fights nap after 50 minutes until I go in and get her to resort to an early BT.
5:30 BT
Yesterday I tried increasing A time before p.m. nap to 3:40 mins, rather than 3:30 min A. It seemed like she went down for 2 minutes but then suddenly popped back up and fought her nap again. I don't know if she actually went down but she fought it for an hour again until we got her and did the same thing. Tuesday was the last day that she had 2 good naps and I know she is getting OT.
Today she woke at 4:45 a.m. and I just put her down at 8:45 and she went down right away. Should I let her sleep 30 minutes again and try 3:40 A time again and see what happens? I'm not sure what A to try anymore.
Sorry for the very long background, just wanted to make sure that I shared as much info as possible.
Thank you so much in advance!
Christine
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Christine,
Here's what I notice in the routines you posted, which I'm not sure I noticed before. When Sophie was sick, her morning A was about 3.5 hr, but since she's been well, it's jumped to 4 hr 15 min. That's quite the jump! So, that either means the A time in between wouldn't have to change, because of the extra in the morning or it might have gone up too. Since you've already tried the 3.5 hr, I'd try 3 hr 45 min today, and if it still doesn't work, then maybe it's time to go down to 20 min in the morning. But of course, now she's getting a little OT, so it might be hard to tell. She was at 30 min am nap before getting sick; had she been doing that for awhile?
Of course, I'm hoping others come along with more insight than I have for you! How did today go?
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Sorry no insight from me. :( Terrible about A times, but that's what I have you guys for. ;) LOL!!
4:45am. I'm so sorry. It is getting earlier and earlier. :( Sounds def OT.
I think Katie might be onto something with possibly needing to extend the 2nd A time as well. Maybe now that she's better she needs more time to burn off her energy. If you can extend that 2nd A time and get a good nap you can push your day out a bit and start getting later wakeups hopefully. That's if the 2nd nap refusal isn't about OT and is about being UT. Does she give any sleepy cues to you if you keep her up long enough?
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Hi Ladies,
Thank you for jumping over to this thread. I am home this weekend alone with Sophie and I'm almost positive that she has just developed this pattern that she will sleep for the first nap and bedtime for mommy but will not sleep for the second nap. Today:
445 Wake
850-920 Nap (I woke her)
105 (tried putting her down a bit later today after 3:45 A time to see if extending would make a difference. She didn't show any sleepy cues and only did when she was ill. The MINUTE I put her down she stood up and started screaming. I probably shouldn't have done this but I picked her back up and held her for 2 more minutes and, of course, when I set her back down she started screaming again.)
* I have this feeling like she's developed this pattern now and she remembers that "okay, for my second nap, if I scream, and daddy will come in a few times, I will lay down, but then i'll get back up and after about 50 minutes to an hour, mommy will come in to get me and I won't have to go to bed." It sounds weird in that I don't even know if she is capable of this but it just seems like she knows what she's doing. She KNOWS how to sleep. She went down for bedtime last night, COMPLETELY awake and played around for 10-15 minutes before going to bed. She just chose to fight the second nap despite what time I put her down! Right now she's screeching at the top of her lungs, and stopping and then screeching again so I refuse to go in unless it's continuous. She's obviously calling for me or for dad right now.
I've always read that after 45-50 minutes of the nap not working, you are to go in there and just raise the white flag for that nap; but is it a possibility that they get used to being picked up after 50 minutes. I feel like she understands that and will go on strike for 50 minutes until I get her eventually. She's frantic right now, but she was absolutely fine playing up until now. No fussiness, very playful. She just doesn't seem to want to go down for Nap 2.
Not quite sure what to do here. I'm so frustrated and she NEEDS to nap in order to stop waking so early the next morning. What if I just kept walking in and walking out until she slept no matter how long it took? Has anyone every tried this becuase it's still quite early in the day, only 1:30 right now...
Thanks!!!
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DH said this morning, just let her sleep in the a.m. for however long and then just put her down early for BT. But she went down at 8:45 so no matter how long her a.m. nap would've been, there would've been no way she would have made it to BT. But, with all this screaming, I think I should have just listened to him, just to get through the day alone!
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I just walked in there and told her the sleepy phrase that my husband says. She did not lie down for me as she does for him to say the least, she is even more frantic now than before, but I don't think I should give in. Yesterday after I went in to get her after 50 minutes of WIWO with DH, she came out and started smiling and waving at both of us, instantly. I thought that was odd like she knew that she got what she wanted...I'm all so new to this!
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Oh Christine I'm so sorry. :( ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I TOTALLY know how you feel right now!! Anna-Li as you know is very touchy/spirited and has done this the whole time during 2-1transition (which lasted MONTHS) and anytime she's sick. So I know about this. :(
I think she IS OT for sure. But I think she's just not going to take that second nap easily. Do you think she's ready to do the 2-1 transition? (like if she weren't getting up so early? If her wake up was 7am do you think she would be ready?)
As I've said before you can take my advice with a grain of salt and listen to anyone else who can advise especially Katie. All I can tell you is this happened to me for so many months that she wore me down and we just did the 2-1 transition. She wasn't 'really' ready for it but was going to do it whether I wanted her to or not. So I just decided that she HAD to do one nap and bedtime. So I decided I would stand firm on those two things and throw the 2nd nap out the window. Her behavior was horrendous during the transition. It was bad. :( But we are on the other side now and she's fine unless sick or teething.
Here's what I do. When she wakes I try to wait until she's 100% ready to get out of bed. I let her have as much down time as possible (alone in her crib) when she wakes from naps and bedtime. (when she's ot or sick she screams upon waking and I just go for her, but other than that I just let her have some quite time) So this way she's not getting OS by running around or just playing.... its kinda counted as extra rest time. Then I put her down for her nap not according to the clock but only by her showing signs she needs to go down. At her first sign I start giving constant reminders over and over and over again what we are about to do.. She must be mentally prepared to nap, I guess b/c she's touchy. Then I let her nap as long as she wants and let her remain in bed until she's calling for me or fussy. Then I do the same thing at bedtime, and we've done some VERY early bedtimes! But this is the ONLY thing that's worked for me. I've tried tweaking her routine as much as possible but nothing works. Now she goes down around 6-7pm (unless sick or teething then its earlier, like 5-5:30) and wakes 6-7am. Her naps range from 30min's to 2 hours (rare). So her body started making up the sleep at night. It didn't happen over night but after a few days her nights started stretching out to later wakes ups. And the nap started stretching out a bit further in the day so it did eventually start creeping out where it was later and later. (unless sick or teething OF COURSE)
I may be wrong but I'm just wondering if her 2nd nap is ut? Katie can answer that better. I'm guessing she still probably needs two but is ut for the 2nd one? What about trying to push it back quite a bit further and then push bedtime back as well?
It seems to me you don't have much of a struggle with the am nap but the pm is a disaster. Is that right?
I've decided to pick my battles with Anna-Li (b/c it was MONTHS and I have a new lo to care for as well) and I will do wi/wo for as LONG as it takes on that 1 nap and bedtime. We've done it for 1 1/2 hours before! LONG TIME! She now knows NOT to test me for those two things b/c I will NOT give in PERIOD! WILL NOT!!!!!!
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How old is Sophie again?
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Uh Liana,
The whole time I was reading your post I was thinking that I may just need to go this route to one nap. This back and forth thing, like you said, is driving me nuts. I'm so tired today! I finally did WIWO for 1 hr 15 minutes today. She screamed like it was no tomorrow but I could tell that she was fine mainly due to her pre bed time...all her A times today were playful and happy EXCEPT nap time. She finally fell into bed out of pure exhaustion. I stuck to my guns this time instead of getting her after 45-50 minutes I had decided that she would stay in there until she fell asleep since our day started so early, we had "time" to do that.
So,
445 Wake
850-920 Nap Woke her up from it
230-335 (I put her down at 105 but she didn't go down until 2:30 after a long fight but I'm glad she went down because she really really needed it)
7:00 BT
*So, all the other BT's previous to this were perfect. Like I had said she only fights nap #2, but I don't know if this was a result of her experience today from nap #2 but when I put her down for bed, she started screaming again. I just kept thinking, please don't do this baby, mommy is going to cry! Luckily she only screamed for five minutes and now she's been rolling around for the past 10 minutes.
* I'm thinking, if she gets OT anyway from refusing nap 2 which leaves her with a 30 minute nap all day, I mind as well just give her one nap as she will be a bit less OT overall. I think I just have to choose my battles at this point. Right now she is 14.5 months old. I know this is a bit on the early side but we've been having to do 5:30 p.m. bedtimes anyways because she only has one short a.m. nap and refuses the second one.
* What is fascinating to me is that she seems to need so much A time before 2nd nap, if she really is UT but then only needs 3.5 hours before BT. That's so odd.
* Does having LO #2 make things any easier? I seem to stress out so much when she screams and puts up a fight so much so that sometimes I wonder if I will ever be ready for LO #2! =)
Thanks for always listening. I feel bad for complaining so much...maybe I'm making it harder than it needs to be.
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Oh, Liana,
I've been meaning to ask you, when your DD refuses her one nap and you hold your fort, how long do you do WIWO before surrendering? I really think if I stick to my guns and if I have enough time in the day, stick to WIWO until she actually falls asleep that maybe in a few days, she'll get the idea and things may be better?! Not sure.
I also think I may try 20 minute a.m. nap for a few days too and if that still doesn't work then I may just jump to one nap.
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Ok, Christine, I guess I shouldn't have been the first to reply as now this just seems a continuation of your old thread, sorry! ??? Just wanted you to know I'm still supporting you!
Anyway, if you think the pm nap is just a game, you can continue with the WIWO since you have enough time in the day to do it. It seems strange, though, that she'll fall asleep well other times, just not that pm nap. To me, that's a routine issue.
But, before making the jump straight to one nap, let's try the 20 min am nap first. It's just going to be so hard to get to one nap with that early wakeup. I found it quite hard to read my DD's cues after the short morning nap, so I'd just start somewhere between 2 hr 30 min to 2 hr 45 min A after; those seem to be the most common when starting, I think.
Let us know how it goes, and hopefully someone else will still post!
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Hi Katie,
That's okay. I appreciate your trying to help me. I'm wondering if SA is becoming worse. This morning I went to put her down at the same time as yesterday, after 4 hours of A and she anticipated my putting her down and started freaking out early. When I put her down she stood up instantly and started panting. I stood with her with my arm wrapped around her for a few more seconds and then walked out. She's shrieking on and off right now. I'm watching her on the video monitor right now and it seems like she's anxious to get to me. She's hopping up and down and panting....
If she ever goes down, I will try 20 minutes today. Thank you!
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Yes Katie, I think you are right. :( You need some fresh eyes for this problem.`I think you might need to make another post and then we will not respond. So sorry about that!! :(`
I'm so happy to hear you got nap #2 in today!! That's great!!!!
What I've learned from having two so little is to pick my battles. LOL!! DS is a textbook/angel so tbh he's a breeze!!! My problem with his is figuring out when he's tired as he's just so happy and wants to laugh and play all the time. It is NOT easy. THey are 19 months apart and if I had it to do over again I would have waited until Anna-Li was more like 18 months (not 9 months) to get pregnant. As you know she is still teething and it makes it quite difficult. DS is starting baby SA and Anna has had it off and on lately. So its GRAND! LOL!! ;) I will say you become a lot more relaxed with the 2nd one. I was so obsessed with Anna's A times and naps exc.......... But now if they nap and don't get OT too bad I'm just happy with that. We do early bt's to fix any napping problems they had during the day and that helps. I've got two in cribs and two in diaper and also two teething. So its everything one baby is plus another. But I of course wouldn't have it any other way. ;) I don't know what I will do with myself when everyone goes down to one nap (at the same time!), gets all their teeth in their heads, is over SA exc......... It will be like a vacation I guess. :) :) ;) :)
Don't be hard on yourself, your not complaining. That's what these forums are about! For us to vent and get help with our problems. I have to say I made it WAY harder than it should have been with Anna-Li. But she's such a touchy thing its VERY difficult. Had I had DS first I probably wouldn't even know about bw. I found the book b/c Anna was driving me bonkers with her naps/bt's. Just wait your #2 will probably be angel or textbook and you'll wonder why you were so crazy with Sophie... but then you'll remember she was a totally different baby with a very different personality and you just have to treat them differently.
I think Katie is right. Try the 20 min nap (am) first then give her plenty of A time to burn that energy off and be tired then go for nap #2.
When I got VERY firm about wi/wo we were down to 1 nap. She was all over the place with 2 naps and I could never tell if she was sick/teething/ or just plain not tired. :( So I KNOW with 1 nap she's tired and I have no problem doing it until she goes down. That's our new 'rule' in the house is EVERYONE (she thinks we nap too, we tell her we are going to) naps at least once in their bed. I start by telling her tired I can see she's getting and that its okay b/c nap time is coming up. Then I give her multiple warnings of it, then tell her a few more times how tired she's getting then take her upstairs and she naps with bearbear. I just tell her its nap time and everyone's gotta nap. Jace's napping, and Mommy/Daddy have got to nap to. She konks right out now b/c she's tired and not fighting me any longer. Today she went down for her nap at 10:45 (woke at 6:30am) I getting her lunch ready and she was going crazy on me. So I just told her how tired she was and we were going to take a nap right after lunch. I gave her food and she ate two bites and asked to take a nap. She said 'nappy time'. So I said are you ready to nap or do you want to eat first? She said 'nappy time'. so I took her up and put her down. She immediately fell asleep and has been down for near a hour and a half now. She will NOT take two hours but if I stretch her one nap too late she's OT and wakes screaming after 30 min's and WILL NOT go back down. So we just do this one earlyish nap and then a early bt. Its working and she's beginning to take a decent nap and wake up is getting later (still early bt) but I'm very happy to be at peace. And its really not that bad at all now. wake 6:30-7:30, nap usually around 11am or a little earlier (starting to last a hour or two) then bedtime of 6-7 (5-5:30 if teething, sick or bad nap)
Katie really helped me when we were going through this napping 2-1 transition so I think she's right by advising the 20 min am nap first. I would do that for sure first. Just give her plenty of A time to burn that energy off before 2nd nap. That might help you stretch your day out further and start getting later wake ups! That would be a much better place to start when you do transition to one nap. Then you have later wake up's and she'll last a bit later. If she won't then you'll have early bt's and early naps until it gets sorted out.
Is this the 1st nap she's fighting you on?? Are you sure she's tired? (maybe A jump)
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so sorry I just realized I put she will not take two hours, but what I meant to say is she will not take 2 NAPS.
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Thanks for sharing Liana. It helps to read what works for you. I'm hoping to get to the point of one nap. Another hard day today.
Just like yesterday:
4:45 Wake (I tried to keep her in bed as long as possible but she wouldn't have it and wanted me to get her.)
945-1005 (Tried putting her down just like yesterday when she went straight down. I tried at 8:45 but today, she started panicking the minute I put her down and fought me for an hour before finally going down. I woke her after 20 minutes)
1:20 (Tried putting her down at 1:20 because she's always tended to be more on the needing more A side before her second nap. She laid on me quietly as if almost asleep during wind down, then when I put her down she was frantic again. She's been whining/screaming stop start for an hour now. It's now 2:20. She's got to be tired because on 20 minutes, it's been over 4 hours now but she's still fighting it. I haven't had to go in yet because it's all start stop whining and screaming.)
I have this feeling that it doesn't matter what time I put her down or keep her up, she's just putting up a fight and not wanting to sleep. She wants me and is stubborn about it =).
If I could get her to sleep in until even 6 a.m., I could pull one nap and just put her to bed at 5 or something. I don't know if WIWO is just making it worse or not. She WAS taking a.m. and BT fine and now she's fighting all three.It's not like I leave her to CIO. I just only go in there if she's terribly upset and there are no breaks in between but she's so persistent.
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Hey,
Have you tried GW at all? Sounds like we are going through something very similar. It's like the trust has been broken. GW worked for us 6 months ago when DD started resisting bedtime.
We are using it again as she is stuck in an OT cycle and WI/WO seems to make things worse. In fact I just did it with her as she woke at 5.20am and it is now 9.30am and she is back in bed.
I like GW because the crying is doing my head in and for us there seems to be less crying if she knows I'm there.
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Christine,
Did she end up going down for the 2nd one at all? Seems she's using a lot of energy fighting this nap. :( I know fighting the nap is the main thing that kept my DD in OT for a long time. They use so much energy going crazy like that. :(
If you put her down way early has she ever 'caught up' on sleep? Like put her down at 5pm and she sleeps until her regular wake up? I guess my question is if you put her down early does she wake at her normal time regardless? (this is if OT isn't out of control) DD does so I just put her down VERY early and just expect the regular wake up. That way she gets a little extra sleep even though the wake up is the same. KWIM?
I think she's in a OT,SA loop for sure. And TBH if there is anyway you can get her to do two naps that is truly ideal right now for her. Since she doesn't allow any ap naps (ie car rides, stroller rides) its very hard to get that 2nd nap in until she can stretch her day out to adapt easier to the one nap. :(
I think sa is what made my dd refuse her 2nd nap. She didn't want to be apart from me and would only take the 1st b/c she was exhausted and bedtime she was sooooooo tired (b/c she only had one nap) so she didn't fight at all. The second nap she NEEDED for sure but just wasn't willing to do it. So I just gave up as I've got so much on my plate at the moment and don't have time (or emotional strength) to fight her EVERY day for the 2nd nap. So I just put her down a little late for that nap (later than the first but before she got ot) and then early bedtime. NOW IF YOU CAN AVOID THIS AND FIND A WAY TO GET HER TO STILL DO 2 NAPS THAT'S VERY IDEAL!!
How does she react when DH puts her down? Does she go easily for all 3 bt's? Or does she fight all 3 or just that 2nd nap with him? That will help point to what the problem truly is. If its SA it could just be with you and she's fighting b/c she wants to be with you.
Remind us how she reacts to GW? Does it work for her?
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Hello =)...
The second nap was a failure. DH did WIWO with her until 1 hour and 20 minutes and finally I surrendered. It was getting late so I just picked her up and decided to put her down at 5 a.m. To answer your questions:
* Yes, Sophie will still wake up at her usual wake up time between 5-6 a.m. if I put her down early so she does get a little bit extra in. I don't know that it cures her OT but I'm sure that it helps. The only time I really notice her waking up earlier than 5 a.m. is when she is in an OT loop then it goes from 5:30 to 5 to 4:45 and so on so forth and she doesn't go back to her regular wake up time until she is out of OT.
* I think you are right Liana about her being in SA/OT loop. It's almost like she started the SA a few weeks ago when I first sought for help with you and then she got sick with the virus and was SO tired that she just went down so easily for a few days until she got better and now that she's better, she's back to SA/OT. I'm starting to realize that this is what it is.
* Regarding GW, we did it with her before trying WIWO when she was 11 months (if I remember correctly). It did work in the beginning, my DH would sit in the room with her until she finally went to sleep but as she got older (hit a year old) it became a game. She would play peek a boo with him from the crib and so long as he was in there she would just keep standing and playing. I dont' know if that is different now but it just seems like she's getting smarter and smarter which is a good thing, but it also makes sleep training more difficult. Tonight I put her down at 530 and she knocked out from being over exhausted. She only had 20 minutes of nap all day so it makes sense that she's tired. Most likely at this rate she will probably wake up at 4:30 a.m. tomorrow. I'm hoping she will at least sleep until 5 something so she can get at least 12 hours in and knock out some of that OT, poor thing.
* A part of me today was second guessing my WIWO method. Maybe i"m doing it wrong or maybe it's just not working for her SA. When I first put her down and she pops up and starts screaming. I always wrap my arms around her while she's in the crib and just hold her and continue singing for a minute more or so. I tell her the sleepy phrase and that mommy loves her and will be right there and she has bearbear to help her sleep. Usually at this point she starts getting anxious...fidgeting like she wants to crawl out of hte crib and pull me in. Then when I say the last phrase, I walk out and don't turn back.
Usually at this point she will start screaming at the top of her lungs for the first few wails, then it will literally be an on and off whine .....scream...whine.....scream...stop...etc. So, I really don't have the "chance" to go back in there because when I hear a scream, I get up to walk to her room and before I hit the door she's stopped. My room is just a few feet from hers so it's not too far. This p.m. I did have DH go in twice, just to reassure her in case she things we're not there and every time he left she freaked out again. She went on and on and on and I was so surprised that on only 20 minutes of a.m. sleep that she didn't just konk out.
Because she's spirited and touchy, I've noticed that she's also very determined and can be stubborn. She will stand in that corner waiting and waiting for me or dad to walk back in.
* Before i went on Summer vacation from work, my DH would be the one to put her down, she napped SO well with him. OCcassionally put up a fight but nothing like this and I'm sure it's because I'm all of a sudden home for the first time in her life that she wants to be with me. For a while I would be afraid to put her down for naps on the weekends because she was so used to him doing it but if she wanted to fight a nap, she would tend to do it with him too. I can try tomorrow having him put her down to see if that makes a difference. The reason I started doing it is because my husband is gone most weekends for work and I felt like I needed Sophie to be used to me doing it when daddy wasn't there. This transition of me being home has really made things hard for her. Even during the day, it's only me she wants. Daddy can't even hold her even if I'm sitting right next to her. She will reach for me. I'm with her 24/7 because she won't let anyone else hold her or be close to her. I don't neglect her during awake time and in fact I'm always giving her extra cuddles and love so she knows I am there, but it doesn't really seem to be helping.
DH and I were talking today and he was thinking, when we put her down for the a.m. nap, he's really really tempted to just let her sleep. He was telling me that she's obviously so tired and I'm waking her after 20 minutes knowing that she will fight p.m. nap. I think he's right in a sense, and at the same time it's so hard because even if she sleeps for 2 hours from 9 a.m., that will only take us to 11 and she will definitely be OT by bed.
If this doesn't get better in the next few days, I will attempt GW. I was a bit hesitant to do GW only because I feel like it's going a bit backwards and she may just be excited that I"m in there all the time and not go down. But at this point I"m so desperate for an answer. I don't blame you Liana for doing the 1 nap especially with DS #2. I am barely able to stay sane now let alone have another little one to care for. If I knew that WIWO would be the answer and all I have to do is stay strong and just stick it out a few more days, I would not mind. When I have a plan and hope I am stronger emotionally but when I don't know if it's making it worse and I don't see improvement, it makes me down on myself...
I so appreciate all who are reading and responding to this. I've been in a bit of a slump lately and I'm not quite sure how to get out of it. I find myself catering the entire day to her sleep and I don't do anything else until 6 p.m. when she's finally down and I"m exhausted and I've gotten nothing done and just want to sleep =).
Thanks for letting me vent....been so emotional lately =)
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Christine, I totally understand! Make sure your taking care of yourself!!
First off the good news: This is a phase!! Anna-Li now goes down for EVERY nap (once a day) and betimes now no matter who puts her down. It was SA/OT loop Anna was in as well. She now asks for it if she's too tired to finish lunch before going down, and we finish lunch after her nap. She WANTS to nap now when she's tired. So it WILL get better!!!! It just took her a little time to get over the SA and took me finding something that worked for her.
Secondly: I would make a new post and Katie and I will NOT respond. So hopefully you can get some fresh eyes on the situation.
If you don't have any success with any of their advice I would get with DH and come up with a plan you think will work for little Sophie to get her through this hard time in her life. I SURE hope you get some good ideas that you can implement that work for her!!! If you don't I would give her a nap when she's tired and let her sleep until she wakes. Then go with a super early bt. Try to keep her activities as low as possible and avoid anything that could be OS. Attempt to keep her in bed as much as possible for down time after naps and bt's (of course lo's going through SA scream to get out as soon as their eyes pop open though). Try to give her quite time in her room (of course with SA you will have to be in there with her) doing laid back activities. Try to make sure DH doesn't ramp her up a lot. (my DH loves to really get DD going chasing, flipping exc....)
This will pass, do what you can to make it through!!!!!!!
(((((((((((((((((((( hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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In regards to your wi/wo............. I've made 2 'rules' in this house for her. She HAS to take 1 nap and HAS to go to bed at night. She can do WHATEVER she wants in her crib until she passes out... ie play with her bear, blankets, sing, talk to herself exc........... but I will NOT get her out of bed until she naps. PERIOD! Since I've taken her down to 1 nap I've never had to do wi/wo during nap time. But if I did, I would NOT lose that battle. I would do it until she passed out!
If she's in pain I medicate her.
If I can tell its SA I give her TONS of attention and cuddles ALL the time when she's NOT sleeping. I've told her nap time is for sleeping and cuddles with mommy will be after she naps. Mommy does NOT cuddle during naps but would LOVE to cuddle her the whole afternoon when she wakes up.
I give her tons of warnings before sleep periods and remind her of how tired she is and how much better she will feel after getting a good rest. I also give her something to look forward to after her nap. I remind her she can have a juice pack (her FAV thing in the world) and we can cuddle all afternoon.... Also give her other fun things we will do... ie. play in the sprinkler outside, read books whatever she likes. Then I HOLD MY GROUND!
I don't care of she's OT, UT exc............. She is 24 months now and I can't take any more of this chaos any longer! I don't give naps by the clock with her anymore. I go only on her cues then give her one nap when she's ready and never wake her. Lately she's been sleeping for 45 mins, wake and sing for 30 min's then back down for another hour. So she's in her crib for over 2 hours. The other day she was in her crib happily for 4 hours (growth spurt I think) she sang in between sleeping exc... Then we go with early bt's. (again by cues and not the clock) Once she got past the ot a bit her nights lengthened out and she makes up any sleep she needs at night. She will often sleep 6pm-7:30am now. At first when I implemented this new 'rule' of our house she woke early and ran around OT for a week or so until her body acclimated to this new schedule. I have a new lo and just can't ap her constantly so this is the way it is.
Since I've been VERY strict with her during sleep times and VERY loving with her during awake times she never fights me anymore. But it did take a bit to straighten the whole situation out.
I just tell her mommy loves her and is here for her always. Sleep time is for sleeping and after she sleeps we can have a full afternoon of all the cuddles she likes.
When I lay her down I always tell her I love her and will come to get her when she wakes. In the begining when she would not lay down I would just tell her I'm here and will come for her when she wakes but is NOT coming out of the crib until she naps.
GW does NOT work for her. I sure wish it did, but she will NOT do it. She screams and gets frantic and beside herself if we are in the room. When we made the change I had several talks with her about it. She half ignored me and acted like she wasn't listening. But I kept reminding her that we have 'one nap and one bedtime every day' and they are non-negotiable. She does them regardless of if she wants to. We will have lots of fun after she's done with her nap, but not until then.
I sure hope you can get some advice that allows her to take two naps still!! But if you don't I just wanted to let you know the things that helped us make the switch and stop the SA during naps and bedtimes.
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Liana,
This is great advice. My friend also mentioned the same thing that she was strict with naps and after four days it improved. Do you remember how old Anna was when you switched her to one nap?
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Yes Anna-Li has EXTREMELY HIGH sleep needs. Most lo's switch between 12-18 months. She started refusing her 2nd nap around 16 months but still needed them. She still could really used a 2nd one even now when she's teething. But we do nap when tired and bedtime when tired regardless. Its taken all the pressure off both of us. She knows the rules and doesn't have to worry about how she's going to try to get out of the second one and I don't have to worry all day about how I'm going to try to get her down for it. My life was revolving around her sleep needs and I felt it was over shadowing everything. My Mom once asked me why I obsess and am beside myself about it. She told me to put the baby down for a nap when she's tired and put her down for bed when she's tired.... forget it all and just do what I could see she needed when she needed it. I think I tended to want this 'schedule' I knew was predictable and could depend on. And Anna-Li is ANYTHING but predictable. So I threw caution to the wind and started putting her down for one nap when she became truly tired. I enforced the one nap with my whole being and then just put her down whenever she was tired for bedtime. She has completely adjusted to it despite teething.
We fought from 16 months until 20 months. I was so pregnant and exhausted it was terrible. I even fought with her for the first month of my 2nd lo's life. It was miserable. :( I regret dragging it out so long. :( And I hate to say most of her ot was my own fault fighting with her for a hour or two over the 2nd nap while she just worked herself into a mess (instead of playing).
She really still needed that 2nd nap, but in the end would just not take it. :( UNLESS I ap'd it. And I could ap it until #2 came. So we did lots of stroller/car 2nd naps. She'd drop off within minuets of being in the car/stroller so I KNEW she needed it... but in the end it was a losing battle. She is VERY strong willed and sensitive!!!
One thing that really helped her accept and like her nap is having her little brother. We talk alot about how he's tired all the time and he likes to nap to rest so he can get back up and have fun. She helps me by doing small things to get him ready for his naps, all the while chatting about how he naps when he's tired and it helps him feel better.
What about getting Sophie a babydoll and a bed (you can make one out of a shoe box if you don't want to buy). And let her get the baby ready for bed. Change his diaper exc.. sing a song, cover with a blanket exc.... Make it really fun and just chat a bit about how its so nice to rest when your tired so you can have more fun afterwards. Let her do this so she can accept naps and bedtime as good. Maybe even get her to put the baby down to bed before she goes herself. Maybe telling her how sleepy the baby is and we must get him ready for bed and you need her help exc..... Possibly b/c she's touchy she needs to 'play it out' before she does it?? This type of thing helps DD.
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I also enrolled her in a 'mother's day out'/preschool/nursery.. whatever you want to call it, when she was 19 months old. It was from 9:30-1:30 and she got to socialize with other lo's her own age and of course nap with them. I think seeing other kids nap helped her accept it as well. Nap time is nap time, they enforce it there and I do at home. I've since changed schools and its 9:30-2:30 which gives her more time to nap and she sleeps well there. Which is insane b/c she's such a touchy soul! Sometimes she would nap for 2 hours there and completely refuse her naps here (when we were in the battle of the wits over nap times).
Since she's fully settled into our rules its been absolute heaven!! So let me tell you once you switch to the one nap and you enforce it completely it will be great. If you can still get her to do two naps (with some fresh advice from new eyes) that is still your best option if you can get her to do it.
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Many, many (((hugs))), Christine!!
This is so hard. Liana has given you such wonderful advice! I agree with enforcing some 'rules' for nap time and bed time if only to help yourself. So, you know how long the WIWO will last, etc. In terms of set times, I think that it's easier to do the set time on one nap or when you're solidly in two, but during the transition, you have to be a little flexible. But, in terms of being set on 'this is nap time, this is what's going to happen,' it is best for everyone!
Here's what I think from yesterday: she's way, way, way OT. That's the reason she's fighting you all the time. She was in bed at 7 pm the other night and then woke at 4:45 am. That's less than 10 hrs, when typically she's had up to 12. So, when she fought you on the morning nap, I think that's what's going on. Claire definitely does this when OT; the minute she knows we're headed to her room for a nap, she starts to squirm and squiggle and do anything to get out of it. And that's where those nap time 'rules' come in. After doing WIWO last month, she knows what's going to happen at nap time and whether she fights it or not, eventually she needs to sleep.
So, it ended up being a 5 hr A for Sophie in the morning and then only a 20 min nap. Then, after another 3 hr 15 min A time, I think she was probably so OT, she just fought and fought the pm nap. I know it seems so illogical, as she is so tired, but I've found that the more OT Claire gets, the worse she fights. I've read it's kind of like the brain chemicals released in a 'fight or flight' situation. Their little bodies are trying to keep them going on adrenaline as they don't have much left. :( It really is hard, and we've been there so many times! Unfortunately, the car is my go to at that point, and I know it doesn't work for you.
My DH was a lot like yours in those situations. He thought it was ridiculous to be waking her when she was obviously so tired. So, a couple times (when she was similar in age to Sophie) we did let Claire sleep as long as she wanted in the morning. And, actually, it was easier for me to read her tired cues after the longer nap, so I'd put her down again in the afternoon and she'd have another CN. Overall, the morning CN did her better, but it was so hard to read cues after that, that during those bad OT loops, it made everything more stressful. I soooo know how you feel!
So, the options you and your DH can do are to continue the short morning nap and longer afternoon nap, but I think with shorter A times. What happens if you put Sophie down considerably earlier (i.e. will she just roll around til she falls asleep or will she be upset)? Or, let her sleep when she needs it as much as you can get (like Liana has suggested), and once you feel she is catching up, go back to the morning CN, longer pm nap.
The reason I keep pushing for 2 naps is that I wish someone would have encouraged me to keep them as long as possible. I was frustrated just like you, but Claire wasn't FULLY ready for one nap til much later and still needs 2 every once in a while when she's super OT. If you do start another thread, title it just a bit different, and I promise I won't reply (for awhile, at least ;)). I'm now invested and want to continue to support you!
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Christine, Katie is sooooooooooooo right! You really want to keep those 2 naps as long as you can!! And only go to 1 if its unavoidable.
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Thanks for your dedication to my little one! I just started a new thread...hopefully I will have some takers. We are in the middle of 1:10 minutes of screaming through nap #1 again. It's so horrible. She just stands and stands and fights it. You'd think after so many days of WIWO she would get the idea.
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She just stands and stands and fights it. You'd think after so many days of WIWO she would get the idea.
That's why I think she's OT and it's a routine thing rather than not being able to fall asleep on her own. Some LOs are just super sensitive to OT, I think.
So sorry for the rough time, Christine. Hope you get some new help. I'll keep my eye on it!
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Oh Christine, I sure hope you get some new insight that helps you sort this whole deal! I agree she sounds ot. :( Poor little Sophie! If only these lo's would sleep when they are tired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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just locking this thread
pop over to http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=173927.0 to help out so we can keep all advice on the same thread :)