BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: babybarr on July 09, 2010, 10:38:12 am
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So I'm back - mainly just to see what you girls think ;)
DS is now taking up to an hour to go to sleep at night and waking at 5.20am - that is in addition to the usual long NWs.
Our "routine" mainly involves a nap at 11.30am for a max of 1.5hrs (more like 1hr15mins) and then bedtime between 6.30 and 7pm.
We used to have asleep within 10mins and wake when our alarm went off around 6.15am (aside from NWs I mean)
So what do I do... I'm guessing it's OT and maybe a little anxiety due to the move but the first few nights in the new house he was asleep within 5mins.
I just need some ideas and hugs really girls - again, if that's ok
(we still haven't heard from the sleep clinic with the results of his "tag")
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Hi there, hugs Laura. I'm betting it's from the new house, all the change in routine. Any chance of getting a longer nap from him though? If not how early are you willing to do bedtime? Probably the first few nights he may have thought it was just a fun new place, like being on vacation...now he realizes this is his new house and he's not going back to what he knew before - it may mess with things for a bit.
More hugs my dear!
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Any chance of getting a longer nap from him though?
Nope :( he just won't take a long nap. The only way we *sometimes* get a longer nap is if it's not until much later but then bed has to be much later as he won't settle and then that doesn't help!
I prob can't get him down much before 6.20pm which is what I'm aiming for tonight. I'm just a bit fed up now with this.
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I hear you for sure. I hope the sleep clinic contacts you soon with some kind of result, anything to help.
Ok another tack, what about a shorter nap and then would he give you an earlier bedtime? Maybe he's ready for a shorter nap now, I remember you tried this before but then he wasn't ready for it. So maybe a ever so slightly later, shorter nap (1 hr?) and then earlier bedtime.
I wish Tracy covered this in her books :-(
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I'm guessing it's the move too. My dd is a great sleeper, but when we moved, it took her almost 2 mos to really settle in (I'm sure some of my APing didn't help matters). I'd suspect OT as well, so if you can do earlier bedtime, that may help.
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i agree with Michelle and others that it sure sounds like a combination of OT and all the changes. the 5:20 am sure sounds like OT waking when it follows a long settling time. i know you must be so busy getting settled and sorted, can you try spending more time on the wind down for a few days while he gets more secure in his new space?
these are such crazy times when you move. the very best piece of advice i can offer you is to stop before you go in (yet again) to settle him and take a deep breath and leave as much of your exhaustion/stress at the door. it is so so so hard to be doing all this and be as tired as you must be .... HUGE hugs to you.
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DS was only about 8 months old when we moved but he had 1-2 weeks of really rough bedtimes, NWs and EWs before setting back in to his usual norm (he wasn't STTN yet at that point anyway). DD had no problem, but she hasn't with our 3 previous (!) moves since she was born either! Big hugs - you deserve a LOT of sleep one of these days (as does your DS). Hope you hear from the sleep clinic soon.
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Just sending you some HUGS and hoping you get the results from the clinic soon.
And some most deserved sleep, of course.
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Hugs here too, Laura! Wish I could really give you one! :-*
Don't have much advice, but I agree with pps on earlier bedtimes, if possible. Another thought I had was similar to Wendy's; what if you did nap at 12 pm instead of 11:30 am? Would he still do the 1.5 hr or 1 hr 15 min? At least that would get you closer to bedtime and maybe knock off a *little* OT. I'm sure it will take him a little while to settle in to the new house as well.
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Laura, don't slap me :P :-*, but have you tried the super early bedtimes? I can't remember if you did in the end! I would be getting him in bed at 5.30pm for at least a week.....it gradually shaves off the OT - definately *not* a quick fix but is the ONLY way I seem to be able to get any extra sleep into Ben as he won't sleep later in the morning or take a longer nap when OT. But I won't say any more ;)
Sending you a MASSIVE hug at this crazy hectic time (((((((((((())))))))))))
xxx
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Hugs Laura,
I agree with Claire. If he won't do a longer nap then it is only an earlier bedtime that is an option to help him get a bit more sleep...not for days and days but def worth a try for a night. It does sound like OT to me....bx
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I guess the way I see it is you have to get more sleep into him if possible (I know it's not always possible though) so maybe if the nap is a tad shorter he'll give a longer night with an early bedtime, and yes as early as Claire suggests. It's probably not going to set you up for the ideal wake time but he'll be better rested and clean up this OT.
Also agree with Cherie about the wind down and stuff, getting him used to the surroundings more.
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Sweetie I really do feel for you, this has been going on for SO long...huge hugs lovely! Do you bath him every night sweetie, do you notice a difference on those nights that you don't? I just ask because some kids do find it beneficial whilst others can get very OT from baths....
It's funny with Dyllan I was doing a 12-12.30pm nap when we were staying with mum and dad, mum put him down earlier and that actually seemed to work better...now only a couple of months later it's usually more like 1pm, unless he has had a super bad night...they really can do some pretty big leaps in a very short space of time!
Hugs to you my friend
xxLizzie
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Claire - haven't tried super early bt, could only do it at the weekend cos of work during the week and this weekend has been crazy anyway - which aint gonna help!
Lizzie - we now don't have a bath :( it doesn't *seem* to make a difference bath days or not, I thought ages ago that it was the bath not helping but soon realised it didn't follow that pattern!
This is the last few days...
Fri -
my mum put him down at 11am for a nap and he slept 1.5hrs (this is a LONG nap for him)
Bed 6.30 asleep within about 10mins (about norm)
Woke 6am ish (not accounting for *usual* NWs - I just discount them now!!)
Sat
Nap 12.40pm (at my dad's as he needed to fix the computer ::) ) slept 1hr 10mins
Bed 6.55pm asleep 7.35pm
Woke 6am ish
Sun
Nap 11.40am 45mins (at ILs naps in buggy never longer than an hour!)
Bed 6.35pm asleep within 5mins
So I know he's OT - he's ALWAYS OT! But any extra thoughts on the above appreciated!!
Thanks again lovely lovely girlies :-*
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Agree re. the early bedtimes. When we were getting lots of EWs and OT (largely because DS had decided that napping was for wimps!) we went for a 6pm bath, in bed by 6.30pm as the norm and if he was super tired, starting at 5.30pm for bath. From time to time, we still do an earlier than 6pm bathtime, but he has to have had a really early morning or strenuous day for that.
Really hope you get things sorted in a way that suits you all and that the sleep clinic stuff comes through soon
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Yes I agree with the early bt's. I do CRAZY early ones with Anna-Li when she's OT. Her normal non-ot, non-teething, non-ill bedtime is 7-7:30.
But when she's OT I go around 5:30-6pm. She sleeps until her normal wake up time regardless! Maybe you could do a couple this coming weekend to try to catch him up a bit?
Will he pass out in a stroller or car seat? Could you get a short cn in him in the afternoon?
Good luck!
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extra big hugs from me!! :*
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Hey hun!!! only just seen this new thread!!!
would he take 2 naps? just for a day or so,just to catch him up a bit?or would that be a disaster?
How long are his NW now? do you still leave him to it?
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2 naps just don't work... the only way it'd work is if the catnap was at 4.30pm or something and then he'd never fall asleep at a reasonable hour.
We were at ILs yesterday and that's an hour's drive both ways - morning we travelled at around 9.30am, he *may* have slept in the car if we'd been driving say at 10.30am instead. We travelled home at 3.30pm (he'd had 45mins nap at 11.40am) but at 5pm he was laying on the living room floor...
Some days I wished I'd AP'd him a lot more as a little baby ;)
Lucy - his NWs are still long - I have no idea how long anymore as I just leave him unless he really calls for me. It's just the settling at night and now EWs that I can't take on top of everything else now!
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Hugs lovelyxx
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Laura are you going to be back on routine now i.e. not going to ILs etc? I think the early bedtimes are helping in the sense that from what you have written, he is not fighting you on them and is going down faster? Am I reading that right? I think sticking with these early bedtimes are the way forward for now.
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I agree with Wendy re the routine you posted. It did seem like the closer to 6:30 pm bedtime the faster he settled.
I also wondered what would happen if you tried the nap at 11 am a little more consistently. I know it's sort of a bad time, but from the same routine you posted, it may be a shorter morning A would help wipe out some OT along with the early bedtime. I know he's not much of a napper, but do you think the nap would ever extend if he started getting a little more rested?
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Yesterday -
Nap 11.30 (mum put him down at 11.20 but it took him 10mins to settle - this is unusual) nap was 1hr 10mins!
Bed asleep within mins at about 6.45pm (DH was in late some accident on the way home and this meant DS wasn't in bed as early as I wanted)
He then woke pretty much every hour till about 11pm - this for us *usually* means he's coming down with something but I think he was having some sort of continuous nightmare iyswim?
He has always preferred 6.30pm bt to 7pm bt but I keep being told that 6.30pm bt for a 2yr old is too early ::)
I know he's not much of a napper, but do you think the nap would ever extend if he started getting a little more rested?
We can live in hope!
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I don't think it's too early sweetie, he has a LOT of sleep to catch up on (and so do you for that matter, not to mention some "adult" time). I hope he isn't getting sick lovely xx
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It's not too early if it's what is working for him...and you. If he's up at night then he needs a longer night in bed to maximize his consolidated sleep. Those other people don't have to live in your house.
Did your mum get the impression he was UT there or already/still OT? I know it's hard when someone else is doing it. I would say try the nap earlier. I think it can't hurt at this stage.
Sending healthy vibes, no getting sick little man!
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My mum always puts Dyllan down earlier than I would and it works well for her, think she is a bit more intuitive than I am, and less invested in the nap actually happening too for that matter xx
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6.30pm may be considered early by some, but it's the norm in this house as I know my boy gets tired and needs as much sleep as he can get as he refuses to rest during the day - and he's now 3yo. Guessing those who are saying it's too early aren't BWers?? ;)
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My mum always puts Dyllan down earlier than I would and it works well for her, think she is a bit more intuitive than I am, and less invested in the nap actually happening too for that matter xx
This is the same with my mum.
She's just told me he slept 1hr 15mins - but I'm not sure what time he went down. I did suggest nearer to 11am but I guess it depends what they did this morning!
Did your mum get the impression he was UT there or already/still OT?
I'm not sure tbh. Longer nap settling time *usually* is UT for us as he tends to be out like a light for naps - but my boy is not UT I think we ALL know that!!
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just sticking my 2p in here!
isnt that nap length the 'norm' for Oliver?hasnt he always done about that since going onto the 1 nap? just thinking all this talk about OT/UT,if i remember rightly he has always done this? i might be wrong?
As you know this is about the same as D,i think you will find its the bedtime 'time' that is going to help matters xxx
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Yup - it tends to be the norm. We occasionally get 1.5hrs, we would only rarely get 2hrs if we pushed him really hard but this often backfires too!
Lucy - nap / bed time thoughts? We do struggle to get him to do a much later nap as he is so tired and then that *can* interfere with bt.
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well i personally wouldnt do too early but thats just me :-\
Do you think he is OT? i know the norm is OT on that length of nap but not us and maybe not Oliver? what makes you think he is OT? behaviour...whats that like? what about teeth? where is he on that?
i think it might be worth deciding on some times and sticking with them for a week and see how that works.
Did you try the lights on a timer?
i know the main thought here is OT and im not dissagreeing with this but just looking at another angle.when we had messing about at bedtime is was behavioural..lots of calling back,messing about,when i got firmer it dissapeared.just something to think about.Again EW with D were habit/ behavioural and the lights stopped it straightaway.
im not saying this is what oliver is doing but just giving my thoughts as you asked!! :P ;D
just for the record,been as they are so alike with sleep,tho not the NW, we do 7am,12.30 nap which lasts from 1 hr to 1.5 tho usually somewhere in the middle ::) if we get a 1.15 or less we do a 7pm bedtime or a 7.30 if its a better nap.set times were another thing that sorted us out.
just something to chew on!!! :-*
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I also don't think he's OT per se, just chronically getting less overall sleep which I think is a bit different - at some point it becomes the norm/average for him right? And he gets used to it. It may affect him some days more than others, depending on what he's going through at the time. Despite his health challenges he's thriving right? I mean everything is developmentally progressing as it should? I really just think he needs a longer night in bed until this night waking issue is sorted, or he grows out, whatever the case may be. Any word from the wristband?
The only reason I think earlier nap is because you don't want to push bedtime out, so really to not have him fight bedtime from having too late a nap, you need an early-ish nap.
As Lucy says, stuff to chew on :-)
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Ok here goes...
Lucy I agree - nap length is immaterial here for us. I don't believe his naps are particularly OT or UT just him. I think he is chronically OT from many many many long NWs and bad nights. He spends so much time just laying down and he tires easily. He then on the other end gets super hyper - not just normal kiddie stuff either!
Teeth just 2nd year molars to come in - I would say at least another month or more off.
We have done 11.30am nap and 6.30/7pm bt for months now. I think the messing around is too late to bed - early again tonight and settled quickly.Despite his health challenges he's thriving right? I mean everything is developmentally progressing as it should?
Yes - although a little behind in some areas - nothing major.
Haven't heard from sleep clinic yet - will chase tomorrow.
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Still haven't heard from the sleep clinic... I'm guessing they're avoiding me ;)
I feel a bit down about it all today :(
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Update... Sleep nurse called and I missed it, rang her back but she's now gone on annual leave and I'll just have to wait another week for the formal report. I'm stressed now!
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oh no!!!! is there no one else you can talk to?
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how frustrating for you!
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Arrgh sorry Laura :-( What was the day like yesterday? Are the early bedtimes still making for a smoother bedtime?
So many (((hugs)))
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oh no!!!! is there no one else you can talk to?
The other nurse I spoke to on the phone was really cagey... I'm guessing I that mum that no-one wants to have a conversation with :(
The doctor won't be in till next week - so I'll wait and see what the report says. I expect something like "Oliver is getting adequate sleep in 24hrs and Mum needs to stop wasting our time and money" :'( Sorry I know I should try and be positive it's just this has been going on so long and no-one really seems to care that he doesn't do a full nights sleep :(
Wendy - earlier beds are def better than later ones so *trying* to stick with those when we can.
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I'm guessing I that mum that no-one wants to have a conversation with :(
Oh, Laura, I'm so sorry you feel that way. :'( You are doing your best for little O, and they should respect that!
no-one really seems to care that he doesn't do a full nights sleep :(
And do they not understand that he's tired during the day and laying down on the floor frequently? I'm saying GRRR for you.
Offering what I can, which is ((hugs)), love, and prayer. :-* And hoping you get a more helpful report!
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Oh for goodness sakes, I am so ANGRY that these people won't just help, there is NOTHING NOTHING wrong with trying to help your LO with a problem and his sleep is a problem. He has a condition and he needs to sleep to keep healthy. Sweetie, don't let these people get you down...
Good luck with the doctor sweetie, keep us posted! We are sending vibes for you xx
Much love and hugs
Lizzie
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Thank you girls for your very kind words. :-* DS is still unsettled, last night was really bad - again.
He is generally settling to bed a bit quicker which is the main thing - although tonight was about 25mins (still quite a long time for him)
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Laura I know it's no consolation for everything you are going through but he's ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! Is that you in the photo? Then so are you :-)
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Totally agree with pp :)
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Yes it's me and thank you :-*
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Laura, I too think that is the most gorgeous new avatar..... and i have been thinking about you and your waiting for the report from the sleep clinic. i think it is totally unacceptable for ANYONE to make you feel guilty about knowing your LO isn't getting enough quality sleep. how dare any nurse make you feel like you can't call and ask for the report on your own son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????!!!!!!!!!!!! keep calling back, make them give you that report, and if they say anything close to what you suggested they would above, tell them you disagree and that you will find someone else to help you sort out this problem with your LO.....
i am so very sorry you have to go through all this. it is so unfair that the medical system treats moms like they are idiots when we know our babies best. trust yourself to know what works for him and what doesn't..you are a GREAT mom and it is clear from the advice you give here that you are practical and sensible. don't let any cagey nurse make you feel any less sure of yourself! (can you tell i have been thinking about this and getting angrier by the minute on your behalf?)
huge hugs to you.
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Me too, I am still so SO angry! Hugs sweetie, you are a brilliant and caring mum!
xxLizzie (oh and very pretty too :) looks like you could do with a donut though, you are very little!!!!)
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Cherie - you are so very sweet and caring. Thank you for your words of encouragement.
looks like you could do with a donut though, you are very little!!!!)
You can't see my tummy or bum in that photo!! I've been eating far too many cakes, chocolate, takeaway and donuts with all the stress of moving!!
So the last few nights have really sucked.
Long Nws and also pretty bad naps
Yesterday
Nap 12.30pm - 1.45pm (was late cos my dad was drilling putting up our curtain poles)
Bed 6.55pm (it was our anniversary and we were going out) it took till 7.40pm to settle
Woke 5am :o although I suspect he had been awake for a while (he's been waking around 3am for the last few days)
We got up at 6.15am when he decided he'd had enough of chatting to himself
Today ... what do you think?? Early nap and early bed was what I was thinking?
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oh Laura, what a beautiful photo!!! So nice to meet you :) Oliver is such a sweetie also!!
big hugss with the bad sleep. We're not doing great here either. I hope you get the house sorted out soon so you can all settle in nicely!!
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Early nap and early bed was what I was thinking?
for sure very early nap and very early bed, especially if you think he was awake from 3-5!!!!!! yikes!!!!!!!!!! huge hugs to you!
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I'd be tempted to do a 6 p.m. bedtime. Really. Oh Laura, I relish the days when we will look back on all of this and miss it! Hugs and more hugs to you.
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Well he napped 11.15am - 12.40pm
Bed asleep by 6.20pm (we aimed a bit earlier but it didn't quite happen ::) )
I am SO tired!!
I relish the days when we will look back on all of this and miss it!
Yeah right ;D
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Happy Anniversary too sweetie and congratulations, it's been tough on you I know but it's great that you got to celebrate xxxx
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Laura I know it's no consolation for everything you are going through but he's ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! Is that you in the photo? Then so are you :-)
Ditto! So fun to see you, Laura. You both are too cute! ;D
Hoping for a better night's sleep for all of you!
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Hey Laura it was our anniversary today too hehe July was a popular month for getting married!
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Happy anniversary to both of you! And Laura, I agree on the lovely avatar...
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Happy anniversary Wendy :)
You girls are too kind ;)
We had ANOTHER EW...what is going on.
5.30am
Nap at 11.15am and he slept 1.5hrs - that is very good going for us
Bed asleep by 6.55pm
I can't take EWs on top of everything else. He has (touch wood) settled better to sleep the last 2 nights.
I'll keep you posted on the sleep clinic, just waiting for the post!
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I wish I knew what to say! We are having EW again here too so I'm no help. I really think you are doing all you can at this point, you are still giving him a decent nap and giving him a longer night in bed...there's not much else, the rest is up to him :-( What about the earlier bedtime? It looks like it's creeping out there, has he been fighting it again?
We're all waiting on the post hehe :-)
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Well I had a phone call from the Dr, so this is before we have received the report.
I'll try and keep it brief. In a nutshell Oliver is getting enough sleep! She told me it's likely to be in his genetic makeup that he's waking up and having a period awake in the night and in "the olden days" apparently that's what people used to do and that's where the phrase midnight hour comes from :o :o So I basically told her that he may be getting the required amount of sleep according to your statistics but as his mother I am telling you he is tired. She commended me on my strategies and said well done for not turning this sleep issue into a behavioural issue but basically at some point he'll probably stop doing it - maybe when he goes to school and is much more active during the day!
Other things she said and you girls will love this! Because we don't have to wake him in the morning and he isn't difficult to wake he must be getting enough sleep. Children who have not had enough sleep usually are very hard to wake up, b*llsh*t excuse my french! So girls what she is saying is if you have an EW it is NOT due to being OT.
I explained to her about how DS always lays himself down even when he's in a stimulating environment and she said children don't tend to show tiredness like this ::) please give me strength at this point and they show tiredness by getting hyper.
The next step is she is going to discuss his daytime behaviour with DS immunologist, sigh... yes that man who has very little time for me either. She then went on to say that DS's consultant is very happy with his progress and has no worries... I then proceeded to tell her he isn't the one who has to look after a tired child with health issues and it's only down to modification of our lifestyle that is helping to keep Oliver out of hospital.
I'm so over this. I don't know whether I really am that neurotic mother that should just now pull her head in or what.
Yesterday we had another long NW around 10.30pm and then he was awake well before 6am. I am struggling here now :'( :'(
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Oh Laura - so many hugs. It makes me mad some of the ridiculous things that so called 'professionals' say about sleep. Aaaaghh! Cannot imagine how frustrated you must feel. thank good ness for BW eh!?
You are doing everything you can. I guess the only thing I would say is to try and keep things as consistent as poss so nap and bedtime within 15 mins if possible but I think you do this anyway. This is not a routine issue anyway is it, this is more complicated and you are seriously doing all you can.
For the EW's could you get a gro-clock or similar so hopefully he will at least begin to understand that it is not time to get up. So many kids i know are EWing at the moment!
Sorry i don't have the answer, i wish i did but you know, you are giving him opportunities for sleep at regular times and that is all you can do xxx
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Oh Laura,
what a complete load of bull (LOL I wrote a different word and it "fixed it for me") ! I am so sorry that you had to listen to that and once again it's knocked your confidence around...this is not what I was hoping to hear!! I am sorry to say but my son also will lie down with his head on the ground if he is completely exhausted, he also does the hyper thing sometimes but children of this age DO express tiredness like this..I can't believe that she says they don't!!!
I am just wondering where this woman got her information 'cause tbh it all sounds like cr@p to me...sorry, I know I am ranting but I am so disappointed that they aren't helping you....
Look in the whole scheme of things as you said O may be getting enough for a "normal" child, although I think his sleep patterns are far from normal, but he has a medical condition which means that he needs to be well rested and he isn't....you aren't neurotic worring about that or thinking that things aren't right...YOU KNOW YOUR BABY, you are a wonderful mum and you deserve better than what you have gotten from these people! I'm so so sorry sweetheart!
I just hope that Oliver will grow out of this, and you know I suspect that he will as his condition eases up...I can't understand why they all think these issues are unrelated...but I guess what I am trying to say is hang in there, I believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and yes for now your life is based around his sleep and I know it's driving you crazy but you are doing an amazing job and he is a credit to all the time and effort you are putting in...just keep doing what you are doing sweetheart...take breaks from it when you can and make sure you and DH get some time together to keep your relationship strong.
Sending much love and the biggest of big hugs and chocolate and coffee and more hugs while you have a cry xxxxx
xxLizzie
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By the way, don't know if it's ok in little ones but have you come across chamomile FLOWER tea (not the leaf)...my hubby uses it 'cause he is a dreadful sleeper....don't know how you would go getting it into O and would want to be sure it was safe, but it really has helped Shaun!
xx
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Chamomile is a good option and I know some others have had some level of success with melatonin?
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Offering many hugs, Laura! That really is frustrating! I don't think you're one bit neurotic; you're trying to help your son!
I think what Becky said is right; it's not really a routine issue, you've tried everything! Just keep offering him the sleep and the longer night, so he has the chance to get it. Oh, how I wish one of us had the answer! :(
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oh Laura, i am so angry on your behalf i dno't even think i know what to say right now. in what universe are people not tired when they have to lie down even in a stimulating environment???????? that is hogwash. i am so so so so very sorry you aren't getting anyone to help you with this - it seems so obvious that mommy is the only one in tune with O these days.
huge hugs to you - do NOT let them shake your resolve - you are a GREAT GREAT GREAT mommy and you aer doing all the right things for a little boy who is not getting enough sleep ! xo
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And so today just to confuse matters I woke him after 1hr 45min nap!!! He never naps this long. Consequently he's not settling to bed though - but I guess that's to be expected. He did have a dreadful night. I wasn't sure if to wake him from his nap but equally I didn't want a very late bedtime.
One thing I forgot to say was on one of the nights of him wearing the actiwatch he STTN! Which surely proves he CAN do it.
Thank you to each and every one of you for your continued support and reassurance. :-*
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hmmm just wondering... have u heard of de-static wrist band? If wearing something electrical helped with his sleep. My dad used to have a factory producing electronics and there were employees who needed to be grounded or else they destroy the products. My sis is one of these people, her mobile phones always magically die, actually most household electronics. If you want, I can get one to you (i know of cheap child friendly version..) I only know it in japanese... hmmm but then perhaps this is totally off.
hmmm hugs to you!! xx
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Laura I don't even know what to say. Is there any chance you can get referred to a different doc for 2nd opinion? Even one you have to travel to if possible. I know you are so so over this and so so tired but maybe a fresh perspective might help. You are not neurotic, you have a mummy instinct for a reason, it's why women are mothers :-) So I don't want you thinking that it's wrong. It's not.
Other than that, you are really doing everything. It's not a routine issue, I think we all agree on that. You are making the best routine you can from what you have to work with.
Hugs and love from this side of the pond.
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Laura
it just occured to me (because I suggested the same thing to wendy on her thread about Finn's ears) - have you thought of taking your LO to the chiropractor? it wouldn't hurt him but it might help him - our chiro wrote a fantastic book about how a simple adjustment can get the system in order and how one little guy who couldn't sleep or eat for 10 months and was dependant on medication to do both was able to give up all meds, eat and sleep normally after 4 adjustments!!! i know it is a long shot, but what with all the terrible support your docs are giving you, maybe this would be an alternative!
if you want, i would be glad to send you the book from my chiro if it would help you decide!
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And today he napped 1hr 40mins... 2 long naps in 2 days - very odd behaviour :P I don't know what to do about bedtime as normally he's in bed for 6.30pm (ish) last night I put him down just beofre 7pm and it was pracically 7.30pm before he fell asleep. I think his nap was a bit earlier today so maybe I'll aim for 7pm again - what do you think?
I worry about going too late as then it kinda defeats the point of him having a longer nap and then still having NWs and becoming more common EWs!!
Cherie, he saw an osteopath when he was very little who couldn't really find anything amiss - I don't really know how a chiropractor would differ AND DS is so phobic of medical people and strangers (ladies doing shoe measuring etc!) even touching him he FREAKS. I'm not going to rule it out though.
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the chiropractor is different than the osteopath in the way they approach whole body health. but i hear you on the freaking out bit - if it is traumatic for him it might be difficult. but i would suggest seeing if you can find a chiropractic clinic that specializes in kids - they are totally the best at adapting to that and in a lot of ways know how to help kids get past the fear of them.
again, might be a waste of time in the long run, but would be worth a shot if it would give you both some relief.
huge hugs to you.
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I don't think anything is a waste of time if you haven't tried it before. We may try it for Finn, I'm going to look into it.
Just keep it in mind Laura :-)
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I haven't done it myself but have also heard GREAT things about paed chiro work for everything from sleep issues to sinus problems and more.
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I have also heard a similar story about a friend of a friends baby who could not sleep and the chiro realigned his little body...he apparently slept for 13 hours straight...poor little thing!!
Sweetie if we get good naps our bed time is 7:30pm....I would probably go for say 7:15pm so that he has a little time to fall asleep but not too much to get crabby with being in bed iyswim? But that's just us and we don't have to deal with too many EWs xx
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Laura, I'm just reading along here as I know you've given me wonderful advice in the past and I just wanted to see how things are going on your side of the ocean. It looks like this has all been very exhausting, but you are a fabulous mom with great persistence~ keep trying to get after the professionals to help you find a solution and hang in there.
I noticed that talk had turned to chiropractic care. If you can find a good pediatric chiro, then I would absolutely recommend it. We've taken both our boys from birth and it has done wonders to help improve their fussiness, naps, ear infections, etc. I'm another vote for giving that a try.
I hope that another solution comes your way. I'm crossing my fingers for you and hoping that it comes speedily!
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I am just popping in to add another vote for the chiro. I hope it works a miracle for you, but even if it doesn't there is no harm done. Just a healthier body.
Like your DS, my DD has complete fear of Drs. and all things medical. As in, has a total meltdown at the sight of her pediatrician's waiting room door. Freaks out in a public restroom if it has bright lights like an exam room. We have been seeing a chiro regularly now for several months, and in the beginning she did her usual freaking out at the sight of him. But each time she cried a little less, became a little calmer, slowly realizing he was never going to hurt her. Now, I'm so happy to say that she doesn't cry at all when we go to see him. In fact, she's all smiles. It's been a really positive experience overall. It's been so amazing to watch her start to trust someone. It's helped us immensly health-wise too.
Hugs to you and your family. I do hope these sleep issues work our sooner than later.
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Can I send you my chiro? He is so fantastic that my kids fight over who gets to have a 'b'justment' first :). He is so gentle and he talks right to them, shakes their hand and looks them in the eye. It all makes him so trustworthy to them!
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Just needed some support today. :(
DS is just getting worse I fear. I'm now stressing that this is going to go on for years and it's ruining my life. I went out on Friday night for my work's end of year do and I am just so tired now I wish I hadn't gone. DH is exhausted too and I just see no light at the end of the tunnel. I feel like a failure offering support and suggestions to other people when my own little boy won't do it.
:'( :'( :'(
I haven't even had chance to talk to DH properly about a chiro either. :(
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Laura,
Couldn't read and not post. Please don't beat yourself up and don't ever feel like a faillure. It's actually wonderfull that you are able to offer support and encouragement to others when you're having such a rough time.
Sorry for not being able to help ... You and your family are in my prayers, i hope things get easier for you very soon, you deserve it so much !
HUGS,
Claudia
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Getting worse how Laura? I'm so sorry to hear that - it must be SO hard. And you totally are a supermom, helping others here and being such an awesome mama for your boy. I'd definitely look into the chiro ASAP, certainly can't hurt. BIG hugs and kisses.
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:'( :'( Many hugs, Laura! I'm sorry you're having a tough day!
Do try not to feel like a failure. I can't imagine how hard it is at your house! You've tried everything possible to help your sweet DS, and I think many agree it's not the routine that's causing the problems. You are overqualified to lend your advice here! You give great support and suggestions, and you are very encouraging to others!
More ((hugs))!!!
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Big hugs sweetie...you are amazing!!!! whats Oliver at now? i know its not really a routine issue but maybe something will jump out just to help him not get worse! :-*
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Laura shhh no more of that bad self-talk :-) None of the people you are supporting (or very few of the people) have a LO who has an immune disorder so you are certainly not a failure for giving advice that may not work on your LO! What works for one doesn't work for another, and certainly not a LO who may not be well. I dole out tons of advice, sometimes I feel like I am talking out my you know what because really about 1% of what I say works or has worked for Finn. But it sounds lovely on paper and can be a great help to someone who has a LO that it may be of use to. So don't give up the advising, we rely on you ;-) Your encouragement alone has helped me through a lot of rough times.
Sorry you are having a rough day. You know that lack of sleep makes everything a billion times worse so hopefully you can get some rest from your late night!
Take a moment and talk to your DH, anything that has not yet been tried should be I think :-)
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Getting worse how Laura?
Well there are many nights when I can hear him and then go back to sleep cos he is relatively quiet, but it's getting to the point (again) where he's very noisy and so either I go in and out of sleep or it just keeps us awake. He seems to go through periods of this more noisy waking on and off, just it's frustrating knowing there is NOTHING you can do and still not being able to sleep iykwim?
Lucy - routine is still pretty much the same
Exclude any NWs
Wake 6am (ish)
Nap 11.30am - for 1hr 15mins - 1hr 30mins (last week we got 2x 1 hr 45mins - he had very bad nights)
Bed 6.30/45pm usually asleep within 15mins
Today though was
wake 6am
nap 11.30-12.55
bed 6.50pm - took till 7.20pm and was a bit wired (and hot I think!)
So day to day nothing really changes. On the days he had longer naps I *should've* in hindsight put him to bed later as it was taking him 30-40mins to settle - which is ok for him as he just get on with it, so used to it in the night I guess ::) just me that finds it frustrating!
Thank you for your kind and sweet words, just having a low day.
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just it's frustrating knowing there is NOTHING you can do and still not being able to sleep iykwim?
Frustrating for sure!
Laura, could you and DH take turns wearing ear plugs while you sleep, so you don't hear it? Maybe do something like each person gets two nights on, two nights off. Then, one of you gets some uninterrupted sleep for more than a night (so it's a little more restful) and the other can still hear in case there is something O needs.
DH travels some for work, so he always has ear plugs around and when DD has had a particularly rough night or an EW, he'll put them in during the night and then get up with her in the morning, and I'll put some in in the morning so I can sleep a little more even though they're up and making noise.
Just a thought!
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Oh hugs to you sweetie, agree with all the other mums you are amazing and the advice you give is so so helpful and encouraging xxx We all love you sweetheart and hope that this gets easier soon xxxxxxx
Just one word on chiro please be sure to either get a recommendation or check out all the credentials first.. I know they can get absolutely amazing results but like all deep manipulation if not done properly can cause problems...Not trying to be a downer 'cause as I posted I have heard of one case where the baby couldn't sleep prior, so I know it can be amazing xx
Big big big hugs lovely,
xxLizzie
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Oh (((((((((((((Laura)))))))))))))) you must be so tired :'(, I really feel for you.
Nap 11.30am - for 1hr 15mins - 1hr 30mins (last week we got 2x 1 hr 45mins - he had very bad nights)
Bed 6.30/45pm usually asleep within 15mins
Today though was
wake 6am
nap 11.30-12.55
bed 6.50pm - took till 7.20pm and was a bit wired (and hot I think!)
So day to day nothing really changes. On the days he had longer naps I *should've* in hindsight put him to bed later as it was taking him 30-40mins to settle - which is ok for him as he just get on with it, so used to it in the night I guess ::) just me that finds it frustrating!
I know that this doesn't help the bigger issue - but I was just wondering if actually the slightly longer naps when he is so shattered because of rough nights don't make up for much, and then he still needs an ealier night rather than a later one ???. Because an extra 15 minutes isn't much, and then he's still acting OT at bedtime? I know that tossing and turning *can* sometimes be a sign of UT, but after a rough night and relatively early morning would it would seem more likely OT here :-\?
You're doing so well at looking after him through all this Laura
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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but I was just wondering if actually the slightly longer naps when he is so shattered because of rough nights don't make up for much, and then he still needs an ealier night rather than a later one
Anything is worth a shot!! I'll try to keep an early bt next time he has a better nap and see what happens. Thank you for your post Claire, I know you have a lot on atm and you are in my thoughts :-*
Are earplugs not uncomfortable to sleep in? DH does have some but he couldn't get on with them - I'm sure there must be a comfortable version?!
Lizzie - thanks as always. I'll bear what you said in mind. I don't know of anyone who's LO has seen a chiro so maybe our drs surgery could recommend one ???
Feel marginally more upbeat this morning despite another EW! EWs didn't *tend* to happen in this house but they are becoming more frequent and that certainly isn't helping!
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Earplugs are only uncomfortable if you haven't got them in right :) Personally, I prefer the foam ones, but they can be a faff to insert correctly and you might have to give them a bit of a jiggle :)
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So sorry yo uare so exhausted, it woudl be nice to know whether things will improve. I can't fidn the other thread btu Irang the clinic agian today, still the answering machine :( Maybe an email to them would help?
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I was dubious about ear plugs too but the foam ones you barely know they are in and they do a world of good for blocking out the world. I had to use them when I was pregnant and we had the world's worst and noisiest neighbours. I think the switching off thing is a great idea - he rarely needs you in the night but there might be that odd occasion that something is up that needs attention, but only 1 of you need be on guard so to speak. Gives the other a chance to get a more restful night.
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Earplugs are only uncomfortable if you haven't got them in right :)
Yep, this is what I've found. There were many times in college I tried them, but never got them in right and thought they were not helpful at all. But, we now use the foam ones, and if you roll them up kind of tight and hold your ear open to insert them, then they expand once in your ear and do block out the world. And when you really want to sleep and not hear things, they are great!
Just for your own health and mental wellness, it might be worth a try. :-*
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Thanks all, thanks Lan too for your help. :-*
I feel like I'm missing something at bt.
Today
Wake
5.30am (again!)
nap 11.20-12.40pm
bed 6.35 asleep 7.05pm
Am I just missing the bedtime sleep window do you think? Should I be aiming for nearer 6.15pm? Can't do much before due to DH getting in.
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Thats worth a thought! if he is EW then maybe if you got him to bed earlier even if he wakes at 5.30 he will have slept a bit more than usual.id aim for 5.5 after his nap so maybe 6pm bed hoping he is asleep for 6.10/15? could that work?
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Sweetie it's quite common for DS to take a while to settle down and go to sleep, it seems reasonably random....maybe when he is a bit more wound up or a bit more tired or a boring day (UT/US)....I wouldn't worry too much if he isn't falling asleep immediately as long as he doesn't get too upset. The way I see it (especially when they get older) even if they don't sleep it's "down" time for both of you, low stimulation and restful and relaxing even if it's not as good as sleep. I spend a LOT of time telling my step daughter that when she can't sleep because she gets so upset.
Hugs lovely
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Had a phone message from the clinic today - they don't consult overseas and are not familiar with any sleep clinics in the UK. Sorry :(
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I'm going to aim for a slightly earlier bt as last night was awful and he still woke at 6am :( I wouldn't have a problem with a 6am waking or even a 5.30am waking if he STTN! If he was stuck at 5.30am at least there would be things I could try :P
Lan - thank you so much for taking the time to ask the sleep clinic. I really appreciate it. Shame they couldn't help but I do understand. Thanks again. :-*
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No problem, just wish I could be of more help.
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Just your thoughts please...
We've been having awful nights as I said but I can't seem to make head or tail of bedtime...
Yesterday
Wake around 6am I guess
Nap 11.30-12.50
Bed 6.20pm (didn't quite make 6.15) asleep within 8/9mins - which is about normal
NW - around 2.30am for at least 1.5hrs :(
Today
Wake 6.30am
Nap 11.30am - 1pm
Bed 6.30 asleep 7.10pm - now I know it's not late but I can't understand why it's taking him ages to settle. I wonder if DH is just hyping him up too much and then he's too wired but you know what dad's are like ::)
I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record I could just really do with some hand holding atm as I'm struggling.
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Last night was the worst night we have had for a very long time
NW 11.15pm ~1.5hrs
NW 2.45am
NW 5am
Awake around 6.30am
These NWs he's been really calling for me too which is NOT good. :(
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SO sorry it's still going on, esp as the NWs seem to be gettign longer. Pity he didn't do it when he had the tag on!
THis might sound crazy -but when I have a bad ngiht I actually prefer to go back to sleep in the morning as I stay awake too late if I have a nap in afternoon - any chance he is the same?
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So perhaps put him to bed at say 9.30am or something - rather than 11.30am?
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Does he show tired signs at any particular time? Else maybe around 10/10:30??
This mgiht totally backfire but at least that woudl be one mroe thing to rule out!
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He shows tired signs from the minute he gets up lol!
Yes he would probably go down at 10/10.30am and yes it's worth a shot. I'll give that a go, anything is worth a try!!
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I know that feeling of wakign up from a bad night and just wanting to go back to bed... Give 10:30am a try? I won't say his nights couldn't get any worse because I don't want to jinx you!
What if he only sleeps for 40 mins?
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It might be worth a shot? I think it's just trying to get as much sleep in him as possible - stretching things out doesn't seem like it's working for him at the moment, so perhaps going the opposite way and getting him down for naps and bedtimes really early might? We had some shorter nights when we were staying at the IL's last week (super hot in Ben's bedroom/molars/more noise etc), so we put him bed 3.75hrs after he woke up, and he'd be asleep by 4hrs. He would sleep 45+ mins in the morning and then 1.5-2 hours in the afternoon :o. But when we put him down at his usual naptime he would only sleep 1hr15 mins, as we'd obviously stretched him out further than he could handle at the time. The nights after he's had more daytime sleep he slept much better. So, sometimes getting them down waaaayy early might be the trick :-\!
xxx
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Not sure he'd do the 2 naps though :-\
Lan - yes that is the risk... that he'd only sleep 40mins :( I'm not sure I wanna spend days trying to apop another nap!!
Today he's currently still asleep at 1hr 40mins... He is clearly shattered, the thing is the long naps seem to mess up bedtime which ends up being late and then still all the NWs etc.
I guess we could try 10.30am and see what happens?
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the thing is the long naps seem to mess up bedtime which ends up being late and then still all the NWs etc.
I would have thought it was the lack of sleep the nights before, and cumulative OT, that was causing the bedtime issues though, rather than the slightly longer nap?
Not sure he'd do the 2 naps though :-\
We were in shock when Ben did - but he was so tired and I think the key was *not* stretching out any A times but cutting them right back temporarily. We APOPed some of them (covered up his carseat and went out for a drive). Of course, this might not work for O, but if you've for months and months tried stretching him out perhaps it might be worth a week of of cutting everything back down to see if that works? Just a thought :-*
xx
xxxxx
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Yes I guess try something not too diffferent from what he's doing at frist, see if it makes things better or worse. What time did you do today?
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That's a good idea Lan has. If his nights are that bad he really needs to catch up on some sleep.
Laura is he showing signs of illness?
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Lan - today nap was 11.30am (I'd already put him down when you posted) he napped 1hr 50mins!!!! He has NEVER napped like that. He clearly is exhausted!
I'm scared to do 2 naps due to all the nap refusal we had during the 2-1, but should I do like 30mins at say 10.30am and then what ???
Wendy - He's not showing typical illness symptoms BUT I am not convinced something else isn't amiss. He doesn't have any temp which is obviously what we have to go on.
ON second thoughts...
I wonder if I should let him nap as long as he wants in the am and hope he'll do a catnap in the car or something later? Not sure which would be easier to manage or better in the long run WWYD?
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I'm scared to do 2 naps due to all the nap refusal we had during the 2-1, but should I do like 30mins at say 10.30am and then what ???
I suppose anything you try is a bit 'risky' at the mo :-\ . Would you feel more comfortable giving him a very early nap and then leaving him to sleep as long as he wants to and then seeing where you are from there ???? That way you would know whether it's APOPing a catnap/giving him a proper nap or just an early bedtime?
xxx
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Would you feel more comfortable giving him a very early nap and then leaving him to sleep as long as he wants to and then seeing where you are from there
I think this is the best plan. As Lan mentioned, when you are wrecked from being up at night or just so tired in the morning, it's nice to go back to bed and continue that night sleep. I would do it if he'll let you. And then take the day from there. Maybe it's going to be the only nap or maybe he can do a short CN later in the day. If he's doing a nice long nap early it may be ok for him until the earlier bedtime.
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Not sure which would be easier to manage or better in the long run WWYD?
I don't want to muddy the waters, because it sounds like the plan above really makes sense. But :P, I just wanted to let you know, that even at 22 mo, when my DD has a short night due to teething NWs or an EW, she will still do the am CN and a longer nap in the afternoon. And similar to you, I was scared to do it because of the same refusals during the 2-1, but one day it happened by 'accident' and seemed to help her tremendously. Now whenever she has a rough night, I have confidence in going back to those 2 naps. The first one is always 20 min in the car as we go out to do errands, but the second is in her crib.
So . . . I agree with Lan, Claire, and Wendy: if you are nervous about the 2 naps, go for that longer morning nap and see where it takes you. However, if you feel like it's not as easy to manage in the long run, you might give the other way a try as well. Just my two cents!
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Thank you all, and thank you for being so patient, kind and understanding :-*
So he was asleep by 7pm or thereabouts. In bed by 6.40pm so I thought that was pretty good going and a little surprising.
The first one is always 20 min in the car as we go out to do errands, but the second is in her crib.
The thing is DS hasn't fallen asleep in the car early in the morning for such a long time - even for trips to the ILs an hour away. He probably would if it was 10.30am though :-\
So I think I'm going to try the long am nap and see what happens. I guess I've got nothing to lose right?
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So I think I'm going to try the long am nap and see what happens. I guess I've got nothing to lose right?
I think that's the way to go, then! I'm hoping for the best over here!!
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How was last night?
Maybe try nap at 11am for a few days first to see what happens?
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Well... I didn't hear him till 7am this morning :o
Now I would like to say that meant he STTN but it doesn't, it just means I STTN!! It is good though that even if he had been awake that he used the fact we didn't have an alarm set and slept in a bit. He's actually in a really good mood this morning and seems less tired which would suggest he slept better too.
So now I'm stuck!! I was thinking I may just stick to his normal nap time of 11.30am as he woke later I don't wanna go too early cos he'll probably short nap, but I'm doubting myself and wondering should I actually go for nearer 12?
What do you think?
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Well if he slept 12 hours straight I'd be tempted to go nearer 12...
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The thing is I never know if he has actually STTN. Well anyway it's too late now! I put him down just after 11.30am and he fell asleep around 11.50am. He's normally asleep within about 2mins when we put him down for a nap so I need lots of sleepy vibes that he doesn't short nap! He may have settled sooner but had got in a tangle with his sheet so I quickly popped in to sort that ::) he was really sweaty too and it's not even hot.
The excessive sweating is something I've mentioned to the drs before who again are not interested ::)
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awesome news on the 7am wake up!!!!! Here's to hoping you get a good nap today!!! fwiw, Abby sweats a lot when she sleeps too - I think it's just a kid thing....
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Callum sweats loads too. When it was a bit warmer he was drenching his pillow each night. I think some children just sweat more than others and ours are obviously the drippy ones :D
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Thanks for the reassurance on the sweating. My immune deficiency fellows say it's also very common with an immune issue too.
So today did NOT go as planned!!
DS napped 1hr 10mins from 11.50am so pretty good going considering I thought he may short nap due to early nap etc. My plan was to have him in bed for 6.15pm in the hope he fell asleep for 6.30pm hoping that maybe if we could catch up on some sleep things *may* just get better... I'm forever hopeful! BUT my mother turned up at 5.30pm. She goes away tomorrow and wanted to see him before she goes, to say I was annoyed is an undertstatement!!
So he went to bed at 6.35pm (not too bad going I didn't think) but it took him nearly an hour to fall asleep ::) and I wonder why I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall !!!
I know tonight we missed the sleepy window and I am going to *try* and make a conscious effort to get him into bed sooner. Yesterday taught me he can fall asleep at an A time of 5hrs 40mins after an hr and 50min nap in his tired state that when he naps only a little over an hour I need to get him to bed sooner.
I know this routine tweak probably won't cure the problem but I do believe that the last few nights have been worse from even more OT'ness iyswim?
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Ok for those of you who haven't lost the will to live while reading my thread....
The Dr at the sleep clinic is "not proposing any further follow up in sleep clinic"
She has concluded that "his night time sleep is within normal limits....and these episodes represent a developmental stage in his night time sleep consolidation. They may persist for some time to come, but importantly, do not jeopardise his total overnight sleep time and are not resulting in any behavioural disturbance"
If you have any spare support I could really do with some right now :'( :'(
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That really stinks! How stupid - just because he gets x amount of sleep overnight doesn't mean being a awake for 2+ hours or waking several tiems a night is "normal"! And they call themsleves experts!
By their criteria the only kids who woudl get help would be those havign a short night. That's ridiculous! Bascially they don't have a clue how to help you so they are tryign to "normalise" his sleep patterns.
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Bascially they don't have a clue how to help you so they are tryign to "normalise" his sleep patterns.
Absolutely!
Oh Laura, that really sucks. So many hugs.
did you manage to find a chiropractor?
bx
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Oh sweetie huge huge hugs....I'm so so sorry that this has turned into another useless exercise. Hang in there sweetheart, we are all there for you xxxxxx
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Laura so sorry. But I am very glad that you kept persevering, you are very strong. Is there any option to look for a second opinion?
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Oh, that is so frustrating! Many more hugs, Laura!! I agree with Wendy and Lizzie: keep persevering and we're all 'here' for you! :-*
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(((((((((Laura))))))))), that really is SO unhelpful :(. We're here for you, lovely.
xxx
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Thank you girls. :-*
TBH at this point I'm very close to just giving up. My instinct tells me something is not right but I'm tired of the fight. I've been through this all before when DS was first born and spent so many months crying and every professional I saw (on a weekly basis or more) telling me nothing was wrong. At least this time things are bearable. He is generally a very happy little boy who has his ups and downs but at least is not screaming. The thing that upsets me the most is just *how* lovely he is when he has had a good nights sleep and how unfair it is that he can't have that every night.
I don't know where to go from here and even people I thought were "on my side" IRL seem to be dwindling :(
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Hugs Laura! Like you said, definitely take solace in that he is a happy boy - speaks to what an awesome mama you are. If it were me, I'd probably go the chiro route, certainly can't hurt. And then if that doesn't work, I'd probably have to let it go for the time being and maybe readdress again in a few months? So sorry you aren't getting more help IRL or from the clinic...
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I'm really struggling to find a paed chiro - I wouldn't have thought it'd be that hard. I am going to contact my health visitor too anyway so may ask her to have a dig around.
I'd probably have to let it go for the time being and maybe readdress again in a few months?
Yep it looks as though this is the only way. :(
The problem is I am really struggling. I have zero patience and finding everything all too much atm.
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Hows it going with the earlier nap?have you given that a go? if they wont help you then you just have us...we wont give up!! xxxxxxxx
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Have you checked out the forums at mothering.com? Usually a bit too all natural/crunchy for my taste but they are an excellent reference for some things. And they have a "finding your tribe" area which might be of help to you in finding a good local paed chiro?
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Thanks hun. :-*
Well we haven't had chance to do earlier nap. Cos I'm not at work DH's alarm is set later so DS has been sleeping in till nearer 7am. So I have kept his nap at 11.30am or a tad earlier. I've been aiming to get him into bed by 6.20pm and he has been dropping off better, which at least that helps. I just feel bad cos he is spending so much time in bed but not actually sleeping iyswim?
I am going to do early nap if we get earlier waking.
Have you checked out the forums at mothering.com? Usually a bit too all natural/crunchy for my taste but they are an excellent reference for some things. And they have a "finding your tribe" area which might be of help to you in finding a good local paed chiro?
Thanks - will take a look
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what are his NW like at the moment? Are they any better with him waking a bit later?
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In a word... NO! The thing is I think if I can get a lot more sleep into him for say a month then maybe he'll catch up and then things may even out - or that's what I'm hoping. Something he *appears* to be doing a little more of, which may or may not be a good thing, is making up for a bit of lost sleep at nap time.
Normally you see if he did a longer nap I'd do a slightly later bt but I'm now just aiming for early regardless - what do you think? Dont get me wrong though we're still *not* getting 2/2.5/3hr naps :P
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i think the early bedtimes are still the way to go,whatever will get more sleep into him i reckon!!!!!!!!
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Hey Laura, how are things? What did they find out with the sleep-o-meter? thinking of you all.
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Koe - thanks hun, I think the update is about half way down page 9.... :(
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I agree about the early bedtimes x
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It's not really letting it go, it's taking a much needed break for some perspective and regrouping - even the troops in war draw back on a regular basis! We aren't giving up and neither are you. But you are doing everything you can as it is so really don't beat yourself up Laura, you truly have your boy's best interests at heart and that's all anyone can ask. I do believe the doc has a point that he will grow out of it at some point, I know it's no consolation and doesn't help you now, but at least it can help to know this situation is temporary. Also he's thriving and generally happy, it's the same with Finn, he could be sooo much happier if he had better sleep - we've seen the difference in him, but alas it's not in the cards just now. He does what he does, and we are working against genetics at the moment.
We're here though, if you need to run anything by us, large or small. It makes me sad that you feel your people IRL are abandoning you, this is when you need them the most!
I don't want to give you the wrong end of the stick here, but I wonder if some CBT might be helpful for you, just so you can better deal with this chronic illness and sleep disturbance issue? Is there some kind of support group for parents of kids with his immune disorder? Might it be helpful to check with those parents to see if sleep is wonky in their kids too? Hugs Laura, you are really brave.
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You must be really physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted after this all!! I'm so sorry!!! :(
My DD has numerous health problems and I can totally understand you feeling like giving up. I took about a month (when it was at its worst) and just put it all out of my mind and tried to deal with the horrid (sleep deprived) behavior the best I could. I did everything I could to get more sleep into her while only relying on cues. We got to a point where her sleep was so bad bw didn't work for her. I had to go to the primal basics on a daily basis, trying to figure out what she needed that day. Every day was different b/c every nap/night sleep was different.
I was at a huge breaking point as I'm sure you are as well.
Please don't give you, but just give yourself the peace to take a step back. It is what it is for now. I know that's absolutely NO consolation at ALL! But me accepting this, is what helped me make it through that dark time. Wendy is so right about the support group if available!
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Is there some kind of support group for parents of kids with his immune disorder? Might it be helpful to check with those parents to see if sleep is wonky in their kids too?
I only know of 4 other mums across the globe on a forum who's LOs have the same condition. I asked them about sleep already and all of their LOs sleep loads. Like one boy Oliver's age 15hrs a day. It seems to be the same for others with different immun issues, they *tend* to need more sleep than most and tire easily.
I don't want to give you the wrong end of the stick here, but I wonder if some CBT might be helpful for you, just so you can better deal with this chronic illness and sleep disturbance issue?
When I was trying to sleep last night I wondered if I should get some sort of counselling myself. I think my endometriosis is back too so I have to book to see my GP anyway and am going to see what she says. I don't want to feel like this but I do have a lot of stuff I have kept in for a long time, mainly cos I had to deal with a baby in and out of hospital. I still really struggle seeing tiny "healthy" happy babies and feel upset that I missed out on all of that. I still struggle with meeting friends who have children who can go swimming and to toddler groups etc. I know I probably need to deal with this but it's hard to talk to people who don't actually *know* how you feel. Someone who knows what it's like to have a chronically ill child - iyswim?
I know aI need to go with it for a few months but I feel so bad that he can't sleep. :(
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Sweetie you can't make him sleep, you are doing absolutely EVERYTHING you can and you are giving him lots of opportunities to sleep if and when he can, that is the best BEST BEST thing you can do for him. He is resting loads and he is doing well because of all the love and care you are putting into him..
Hugs that your health is not great at the moment, don't forget to look after you - you are important too xxxxx
Huge huge hugs sweetie, we are always here for you
xx