BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: jackman on August 13, 2010, 16:34:07 pm
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It's been many months and I've been trying to trouble shoot on my own, but last night was the worst and I'm about to lose it. Could someone please help us?!! I'm pretty sure our 4hr EASY routine needs a tweak but you never know as everyday is different.
My 7.5mo DS has never STTN, but from time to time he can sleep a good 5-6 hr stretch before he needs a feeding (weaned at 6mo and now FF, always drank from a bottle for night feedings). I've tried to mimic his schedule the following day when that does happen, but I am never successful. Lately, he has been staying awake for at least an hour before going back to sleep. I never thought I would say this, but I miss the times where I could feed him and he would just go right back to sleep. I'm not sure why he is doing this. Also, for the last 2 weeks or so I have been dealing with EWs that start around 5am. I try so many times to let DS resettle himself and at times he does, but mostly I have to go in and pat him a bit and he'll fall asleep again until 6:30 or so.
Last night he went from 7:30pm-1:00am (gave him a bottle, only drank 2.5oz?) and it took him until 2:30am before he went back to sleep. Then he woke every hour after that. Finally at 6am I gave him another bottle and he drank 3oz.
His 4hr EASY typically is this:
6:40am Wake and plays in his crib
7:00am Bottle 6oz
8:00am Breakfast of oatmeal with 1oz of formula
10:30am Nap 1 (1.5hrs)
Noon Lunch chix, veggies and fruit
2:00pm Bottle 7-8oz
3:30pm Nap 2 (lately this has been 40min and I can't extend, used to be 1.5hrs)
5:00pm Dinner chix, veggies and fruit with 1oz formula
6:00pm bath
7:00pm Bottle 5oz and bed
I usually shoot for a bedtime that is a 1/2hour from when DS wakes, meaning if he wakes at 6:30-6:40am then BT is around 7:00pm +/- 15 min. This has worked in the past, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something since his 2nd nap has been 40 min tops. Perhaps I should be putting him to bed earlier? And if so, what time? This is where I never can get things right since there are instances where DS won't take his BT bottle if it is too close to dinner.
At first I thought DS needing longer A times since not enough A time during the day contributes to NWs and EWs. Well, DS is working towards 3hr 45min and his second nap is still 40 min and EWs still occur. I probably should post something on the naps board to get help with the 2nd nap.
So my questions are:
- Why is DS staying awake for at least an hour after he feeds at night? I should probably note that he is on the verge of crawling. Could this be the culprit?
- How can I address the EW? I don't think it is more A time, but maybe? DS is already at 3hr 45 min on some days and it doesn't help with his 2nd nap. Maybe the two aren't linked?
- Why did DS wake every hour last night? This seems to happen every so often.
- Should I be putting DS to bed earlier and if so, what time to make sure he takes his BT bottle.
TIA and sorry for the longest post ever!
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Hello stranger!
Sorry you are having a rough time....I'm no expert but from reading your post I would say that DS is OT hence the NW's & EW's?? His A times do look on the high side, especially if he's waking a lot at night. I usually reduce A times if DS has been up a lot during the night to stop him getting more OT & to get back on track. Also, if his 2nd nap is only 40 mins, 3hrs A time after this before BT does seem a lot.
Not sure if this helps at all!
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Hi Sianie, so good to hear from someone and especially you!! Thanks for the suggestion. I think you might be right about 3hrs until BT after a 40 min nap is too long. I try to get DS to bed earlier, but sometimes he refuses his BT bottle and I try to get as many calories into him before bed to get him through a good span at night. I guess I should just put him to bed and when he wakes, give him a bottle (which would be his BT bottle)???
This morning after a horrible night, I thought for sure DS would go down for his first nap under 3 hrs, but instead he went 4hrs!!! I kept trying and trying to put him down and he just kept fighting me. He is still sleeping and I think I'll just let him sleep the full 2hrs if not a bit more so he can catch up.
I don't know anymore Sianie....it feels like for months I can't seem to get this EASY thing right. Do you think 2.5hrs after a 40 min nap is the right A time to combat the NWs and EWs?
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Bless you! :)
It's such a minefield getting these routines right.....I'm definitely one step forward & 2 steps back!!
From experience I can say that you need to try and get the OT under control to get back on track (easier said than done I know!!)...I know you said he fought you when you tried to put him down at 3hrs...do you think he was OT or UT?
Re: feeding, he might well be refusing his BT bottle as his too tired? I'd maybe try a 6pm/6.30pm BT if you possibly can, even if it's just for a few days to get things back on track a bit? We have been feeding DS 'Goodnight milk', I'm sure there's a version of this where you are, it's basically a thicker consistency formula especially for BT which is meant to keep them fuller for longer, used it with DD too & I do think it makes a bit of a difference.
Really you want to try & increase the 2nd nap so it's longer which will help you combat OT & make BT easier.....if he does a 1.5hr nap for 1st nap, have you tried increasing 2nd A time a bit (as according to your EASY, this is shorter than your 1st right?)......40 mins could be UT?
As with all of this I'm afraid it's going to be a case of trial & error, 'tho I think your priority is to try & get him caught up a bit on his sleep (even APOP if necessary, especially for PM nap?)
{{Hugs}}
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I have tried to lengthen DS' second A time to see if it would help with his naps and so far no luck. In fact, I'm pondering set nap times since I can never rely on his sleepy cues. He'll yawn immediately after waking from a good 1.5hr nap.
I'll definitely take your suggestions of getting DS to bed early for the next few days over the weekend and see how it goes. There was a week where I thought I had things figured out in terms of naps, but still working on NWs and EWs and yesterday just went completely down hill like a plane crashing.
BTW, how are you and your LO's doing?
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Can you fit a CN in if he does a short 2nd nap, just to tied him over to BT?
Is he teething at all? Could this be to do with the NW's etc?
We are doing ok thanks! Good days and bad! DS's reflux is a lot better & we've weaned his dummy so his sleep has improved! DD is still a little madam, lol!
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I've tried CN on days where DS' 2nd nap is only 40 min and he fights me. I suppose it is because we haven't done them in a few weeks, so he looks at me with a question mark like - what are we doing mama? I just have to get him to bed earlier.
Yesterday was better. I had to wake DS from his first nap after 2hr15min because I was afraid he would sleep too long and the nap was already late in the morning (11:30am) as we started our day later and he fought me. His second A time was 2.5hrs and he took a 30 min nap. I'm not sure if it was OT or the fact that my DD was screaming throughout the house??!!!Argh! Could be a combination of both.
Regardless, DS' A time to BT was again 2.5hrs and he slept thru till midnight. Woke because he was cold, poor little man (it's nearly 100 degrees F here so our AC is on full blast). Went back to sleep immediately and woke for his bottle at 3am. However it took him nearly 30 min to fall back to sleep. Do you have this problem with your DS? Or have an explanation why?
DS woke this morning at 7:10am happy as a lark. So you are right, definitely OT - build up of several days too much A time. I'm trying so hard to get the A times right so he takes a good 1.5hr nap. I will scale the A times back until he has caught up.
Have you thought about doing set nap times Sianie? I'm really contemplating it for two reasons: (1) have hard time figuring out A times for DS and (2) help with DD's schedule since she starts preschool in the fall and I'll have to drop her off and pick her up at certain times. What do you think and have you heard what other moms think?
Thanks so much for helping and replying. It's always nice to know there is someone out there who is willing to listen and chime in. Some times I feel so alone in this EASY thing!
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I forgot to say, Congrats on weaning your DS of his paci. That is a huge accomplishment. I weaned my DS of his swaddle a couple of months ago. That was alot of work and I was so afraid.....but it worked out in the end and was soooo worth it!
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Glad you had a slightly better day! :)
Don't forget it can several days to get out of a OT loop. Great 1st nap! Yay! 30 min naps are usually OT....some LO's need a shorter 2nd A time but then as he had a good 1st nap you would have thought it would make more sense for him to be UT? Hmm...
DS was waking like yours when he was teething a few weeks ago plus going through a GS. Is he eating well during the day (milk & solids). Do you feed him at all at night when he wakes up? Again, the waking up & not resettling sounds like OT to me.....
I have thought about set naps as your are right their sleepy cues get harder to read as they get older and A times are a minefield! I did have some advice from Wendy on the naps board re: set naps, she suggested 1 at 10am for 1.5hrs (assuming he wakes at 7am) & 1 around 2pm-2.30pm for 1.5hrs. Ellis's A-times aren't quite at 3hrs yet so we are not quite at that stage as still doing a CN tho it might well be something i end up doing. I think if you do it you will have to give it some time to bed-in & for your DS to get used to it...worth a go tho I would say!
Hope your day is going ok today!
P.S: thanks re: paci weaning....TBH I thought it was going to be a lot harder than it was but bless him he dealt with it really well!!
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Well I put DS to bed last night at 6:30pm to try and combat his OT and since his naps yesterday were short. First nap was 1hr 20 min and second nap was a broken 1hr 15min (were out and about, I transfered DS to crib hoping he would sleep longer). First nap was after 2hr 50min of A time (maybe UT) and second nap was after 3hr 15min (again UT?). This is what got us into this mess in the first place. These short naps or me thinking he was UT, so I kept increasing A times and then the OT monster comes. What to do???
DS woke after an hour going to bed, which usually means OT right? So I need to get him to bed sooner or at least 2.5hrs after his last A time (I think I figured this out based on the previous night). He woke twice in the night for milk (sometimes I can extend it, but he is still taking 1-2 feeds a night). It's like he knows when his daily intake is met (drinking 24-26oz a day). He is doing much better during the day about drinking his milk since I dropped to three feeds instead of 4, taking around 6-7oz at a time. That is one thing I have been able to get right in this EASY!
However, what do I do when he wakes at 5am? That's close to 10.5hrs of nighttime sleep which is what he averages. I was able to get him back to sleep for almost an hour after 45min of work!!! I'm at a loss!!! Thoughts?? I really don't want our day to start at 5am if he goes to bed at 6 or 6:30pm.
In terms of nightfeedings, DS is eating solids (very well) and drinking milk (very well). Just don't know when he'll drop his nightfeedings. Maybe it is another thing I need to work on, ugh. These NWs and EWs over many months is starting to wear on me and I know I'm not alone, but at times it is disheartening and I'm a bear during the day which is not fair to my lo's, especially my 3yo.
Help!!!??
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Hi!
I would say his A times are still a bit all over the place due to OT hence the naps being a bit up & down too...
As with all these things, I think it's going through a process of elimination to try to find out the cause.....frustrating I know but with these LO's there are no magic wands ::)
I certainly wouldn't increase his A time for now, either keep them as they are or reduce slightly after a short nap.
When he wakes at 5am, does he wake crying or in a good mood etc...? Is his EW at the same time every day? I know that some LO's are lower sleep needs and only need 10hrs or so night sleep. I guess if that's your LO, you ideally need to get to a place where you can push his BT later so at least he's not waking so early, problem is that until you get the NW's & naps under control you can't do this.
If he's getting enough calories during the day then he shouldn't need any night feeds....do you think they've become a habit? DS used to wake between 4am-5am every morning & I used to feed him but then he wouldn't take his breakfast bottle as he wasn't hungry. I started to dilute his 4am feed to wean him off....he was taking 7oz's so I started by keeping 7oz's of water but just adding 6 scoops of formula....did this for a couple of days and then dropped the amount to 5 scoops (still keeping 7oz's of water) etc, etc.
Not sure if any of this helps?!
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Thanks for your advice Sianie. Naps were hit and miss yesterday. I had to extend the 2nd one and it ended up being just a little over an hour. Got DS to bed 2.5hrs after 2nd nap and he had 2 NWs (briefly around 11pm and 1:30am was feeding) and 1EW (4am, which took 1hr15min to fall back to sleep). I'm wondering if some of this is due to DS learning how to crawl. There is another mom who posted on the NWs board and she is going through the same thing! Short 2nd naps with NWs and EWs. She did say her friend had similar issues with her lo and eventually it all passed. I'm trying hard to keep positive. Teething seems to come and go as well which I always medicate before DS goes to bed at night to help him.
re: watering down the forumla
Have you been successful? I would really like to give this a try....
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NW's can be developmental...DS had a few when he learned to roll...he's trying to crawl at the mo! I guess all you can do is give him as much time during A time to practice crawling...this should also help to tire him out!
I found watering down the formula worked to wean him off his night feed, also meant he feeds better during the day as he hasn't had anything during the night.....
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Hows it going?
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Hi Sianie, sorry I haven't written in a few days. I wanted to give it some time to see if I could get things better and I think the early BT has helped tremendously with the OT. However, I'm a bit afraid to even write it since things could go wrong again!! :-)
I'm slowly figuring out the proper A times for DS. The last two days he has taken decent naps. First nap has been around 1hr-1hr10min and the second nap has been 2hr-2hr15min. The first A time can be anywhere from 3hr to 3hr30min and the second A time can't be more than 3hr. I'm trying very hard to keep to a 12hr day/night.
Last night DS had one of his best (doesn't happen very often and I can count on one hand) nights. He slept from 7:00pm until 2am with one brief wake an hr after bed (resettled on his own). I am trying to cut out his night feeds based on diluting the formula as you suggested. Last night was night #2.
I'm starting to realize his NWs (when not OT) are out of habit because I always fed DS at night since I could never get enough calories into him during the day. Since he is eating solids so well and drinking at least 20oz of formula before BT, I know he can't be that hungry. Plus he is only drinking 3-3.5oz at a time at night.
Unfortunately, it is when he wakes 2-3 times in the night that is the most difficult. That happened a couple of nights ago and I fed him at midnight but then he woke at 2am and 4am and I held him off until we finally woke at 6am. Very tired the next day! He only drank his usual 6-7oz, so I definitely concluded that the NWs are out of habit as you suggested.
Do you think I did the right thing by feeding DS the diluted formula at the first NW or should I have fed him at the 4am EW?
I'm hoping things continue to improve and we get to STTN before he turns 9mo. Thanks so much for listening and helping.
How are things for you?
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Oh I forgot to ask, since DS is drinking at least 3-3.5oz at night, I've been making bottles with the diluted formula of 4oz. So 3oz of formula with 1oz of water and will continue to decrease formula based on this amount. Is this correct?
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Hiya!
Glad you are seeing a bit of improvement...great!!
As with all these things, they take time to sort out but things already seem a lot better than a few days ago so take heart!
Re: NW's & feeding, I would (& it's only my view!), try & hold off feeding him when he wakes, as from what you've said it definitely sounds habitual. I know short term it's a killer as it does mean you probably being up more, but it will pay off (I've been there!). When DS woke, I would leave him to settle but if I had to go in then I would sit next to him with my hand on his back (usually works with him) & try & re-settle him....I used to do the diluted feed around 4am-5am as I knew before this time he wasn't waking from hunger.
Touch wood it's been nearly a couple of weeks since he's had a night feed (everything crossed!!).
We are in the middle of cutting out the CN & today was DS's 1st 2 nap day so who knows what he'll be like tonight?!! :)
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Hi Jackman - how's it going? I've had a couple of good nights - been staying at home all day to make sure day time naps go well. I do think the NWs are a bit of a phase for our age LOs, but on Friday I definitely had NWs caused by OT.
I was sorry my thread got locked, as was good chatting to you with our LOs going through similar probs. I've joined the 7-9 months birth club now, and Sianie is on there too, so it'd be good if you hop on too.
The best night's I've had - no NWs or EWs (I don't count after 6am as EW) have definitely been on the days when I've stayed home and timed naps well - here's my EASY for those days - maybe it'll help you. Did you have any success with waking LO early from am nap to see if that'd help him take longer pm nap?
6:15 - 7am wake up (A = 3/3.5 hrs)
7am - BF (top up at 8am if doesn't feed well due to reflux, or occasional low supply from me)
8.30 solids
9.45/10am nap for 1.5 hours (woken by me if still sleeping)
A= 3 hours
11.30 BF
12.30 solids
14.30 nap 1-1.5 hours
A= 3.5 hrs
15.30/16.00 BF
17.00 solids
18.15 bath, stories
18.45 BF and top up bottle (since we cut the DF last week)
The 3.5 hrs is a little long but DS usually seems to handle it as the last hour is spent winding down.
He's still sleeping from his pm nap now - nearly 1.5 hours - I'll be waking him at 4pm if he's still sleeping - I hope that him taking 3 hours naps today instead of his usual 2.5 doesn't lead to an EW tomorrow! I'll let you know.
Hope your nights are getting better. Hugs :)
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Hi zebstiredmum. Thanks for checking in as I too really appreciated talking with you about our lo's. It's always nice to find someone that you connect with and keep in touch. Sianie and I have done that and was so glad to see that she replied to my post. :) I will look into the 7-9 month birth club.
Well our nights have been up and down, but I have an added issue that I'm trying to deal with along with the developmental and OT probs. I'm trying hard to wean my DS of his nightfeedings. I am quite certain that when he isn't OT, his NWs are hibitual and disrupt his sleep. Last night was a first for DS in terms of not milk feeding and like clock work he woke at midnight and 3am. It was so hard but we made it thru till 7am this morning. He is one tired little man, but I'm sticking to my guns. We did the diluted formula for two nights, but I realized it wasn't worth it since he was only drinking 2-3oz. Cold turkey was the way to go with him, so doing my own version of PU/PD.
Saturday night was horrible since DS' naps were terrible during the day (both were under an hour). I put him to bed early (6:15pm) and he woke 45 min later thinking it was a CN and didn't go to bed until 9:15pm. He then proceeded to wake every two hrs because he was OT. I find nights are better when we have good naps and the magic number seems to be 3hrs of total daytime sleep. Anything more or less and we have additional NWs other than the habitual ones.
I have found that if DS takes at least an hour nap in the morning his afternoon naps are long, 2hrs or more. I always make sure to wake him if his afternoon nap is more than 2hrs and I would rather do that than try to extend as I'm not ignoring my DD.
Our A times are very similar. I find the first one to be 3hrs or 3hrs30min and the second A time anywhere from 2hr45min to 3hr. The hardest one for me to pinpoint is the last A time right before BT. It can be anywhere from 2hr30min to 3hr30min. Regardless, DS just takes forever to settle (20min or more). I wonder if I'm putting him down too soon? Do you find this with your lo?
Hope your night was good. Hugs :-)
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Hi ladies! :)
Good for you sticking it out with the night feed weaning...I know it's hard but it should pay off in the long run!
I agree about 3hrs being pretty much spot on for daytime sleep, Ellis seems to be the same, any less we get OT NW's & any more he wakes early.
We've only just gone to 2 naps over the past few days...few couple of days went well but today was a bit of a disaster & he didn't nap for more than 45 mins at a time so had to add in a CN again! ::)
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Hi Jackman & Sianie
Congratulations on the night weaning Jackman - keep it up! It might not take as long as you think. It took me just over a week with my DS using my variation of PUPD (was having 2- 3 NWs), but that was at 20 weeks old and I kept a dream feed in. I've been surprised this week after dropping the DF cold turkey (was getting NWs anyway so I thought 'what the hell, I'll give it a shot!') - I've had a couple of nights of NWs, but due to OT or possible teething - no food required!
Sianie - my LO dropped the CN spontaneously a couple of weeks ago, leaving some very long A times before BT, and it's taken us this long to get back on track so don't worry about having to put CN back in on some days - TBH it suited me fine when my LO took a short lunchtime nap and then a CN later on, and some days it would be good if I could follow that routine again as LO can take short naps out and about.
Good luck Jackman - I hope night weaning happens quickly for you, and that all our LOs get back on track.
Oh - bedtime settling - usually is quite quick, and if OT he falls asleep feeding. If not OT he usually just rolls over if he has a nice full tummy and settles quickly BUT as I type this I still here him chatting away nearly 1/2 hour after I put him to bed!! (and grizzling a bit, but not crying so I'm ignoring him)
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I agree about it being useful when they take shorter naps out & about....with DD to look after as well, some days he has to when we have DD's activities to go to, though now he's a lot more alert it takes longer for him to go to sleep! ::)
Hope you have good nights! ;)
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Just wanted to post an update for anyone reading this thread. Last night was the very first for my DS to STTN! It felt so good to have more than 4 or 5 hrs of sleep. DS went to bed around 7:20pm and didn't wake until 5am which he then settled and finally was up at 6:40am. We also didn't have a wake up an hr after BT.
I'm hoping for the same tonight and it wasn't a fluke, but the weaning off milkfeeds during the night is working eventhough it is tiring.
Thanks Sianie and Zebstiredmum for your support.
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Well we had a terrible night. At least I know what it feels like to have one night of really good sleep! LOL!
It is a work in progress of course and I can't expect it to all change in one day or night. Again no milkfeeds last night but I am certain DS was OT. His 2nd nap was only 1hr20min and I tried a CN knowing he needs at least 3hrs of day sleep to have a good night, but it was a no go. Then I tried to get him to bed early around 6pm since he woke from his second nap at 3pm. It took him an hour to fall asleep! ARGH!!!
Aa result, DS woke an hour after he finally went to sleep and then had fitfull sleep all night long, waking every 2hrs. UGH! I'm so tired today.
How do you know that their A times need to increase? I'm so scared to try since it resulted in OT last time. What do you gals think?
How are you both getting on? Better nights Zebstiredmum?
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Oh, no....sorry to hear that :(
Can you post what his day looked like? How long was his 1st nap? What A times are you on etc?
Usually know to increase A times once their naps start getting shorter or start taking longer to settle for naps (with DS he doesn't cry, that's usually OT but he babbles away to himself for a while where normally he'll go down pretty easily & quickly).... :)
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Hi Jackman
Big big hugs - keep it up - as you have found out - not feeding WILL pay off eventually. I think on top of the work you are doing in weaning night feeds, both our LOs are at a difficult stage in terms of A times and naps and getting OT. (What I really don't understand is how come OT never led to DS NW up until the last 2 weeks?! ???)
My DS is still all over the place re A times and naps, but thankfully no NWs for last couple of nights - he woke at 5.30am yesterday, and 6am today though. Last night he did actually sleep for 11.5 hours - I had to put him to bed at 6.30pm because very short pm nap (25 mins) but at least I managed to do that successfully. Usually he isn't interested in his milk feed much before 7pm, so I can't get him to go to bed early.
Today I stayed home to ensure his naps were on track - but No! 1.5 hour am as normal, but then only 30 mins pm, if that, even though at home in his own bed!! SO he woke at 3pm, but thankfully took his BT milk at 18:20, and was in bed by 18:45. I still keep my fingers mentally crossed every night at the moment though - I just don't know what each night will bring... :P
Good luck tonight Jackman :)
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Well I've been waking him an hour after his first nap since it had been working to give us a good solid 2hr nap in the afternoon. Yesterday's EASY was this:
6:40am Wake
7:00am Bottle
9:55am Nap #1
11:00am Woke DS
11:30am Lunch
1:3pm Bottle
1:40pm Nap #2
3:00pm Woke
4:30pm Dinner
5:30pm Bath
6:00pm Bottle and bed
Didn't fall asleep until nearly 7pm
On average DS has been doing anything from 3-3.5hrs for his first A time and his second A time around 2.45-3hrs. Yesterday he went down so easily no fuss. Laid him in his cot and he drifted off. I thought for sure that nap #2 would have been 2 hrs.
Today's EASY:
6:30am Wake (after an EW at 4am and took 1.5hrs to fall back to sleep)
7:00am Bottle
8:00am Breakfast
10:10am Nap #1 (fought this nap even though I tried after A time of 3hrs.)
11:15am Woke DS
11:30am Lunch
1:30pm Bottle
I'm getting ready to put him down for his 2nd nap, watching his cues but targeting A time of 2.45 if not 3hrs.
I'll let you know about the 2nd nap, but I hope he sleeps well and that we don't have another bad night. What are your thoughts Sianie?
Thanks for the encouragement Zebstiredmum and hope that your lo sleeps well tonight and good that he took his BT bottle. I know that feeling too well as my DS was very similar up until we went to 3 milkfeeds. I do hope things get better for us soon!!! Hugs to you.
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Hi everyone, feeling your pain. We had a great night Monday night (12hrs of sleep) but last night was awful. All about trial and error. I am praying tonight will be a good night. We are as well weaning the DF and dealing with trying to crawl and teething. I think this is all a phase but I feel it is worse then when he was a newborn.
Looking forward to updates tomorrow in case any of your tricks worked.
Carrie
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Hmm, I would say if you usually get a good long 1st nap then it might be worth letting him sleep longer in the AM (to try & get him caught-up & curb the OT)....if you are having to wake him, he clearly needs the rest so I'd maybe see if he could do 1.5hr nap & then if he has a shorter PM it's not a total disaster in terms of his total daytime sleep IYSWIM?
I've always found (with DD too), that morning naps are the easiest to get them down for and the longer of the 2 naps. With DS I usually leave him to sleep for at least 1.5 hrs, maybe a bit more if he's really tired. Not sure if it will help you as Ellis is a wee bit younger than your LO's but his EASY the last few days is as follows ('tho I know this will change ;))
Awake: 6.45am
A: 3hrs
S: 9.45am (woke him at 11.30am so a 1hr 45min nap)
A: 3hrs
S: 2.30am - between 3.30/4pm, so an hour to 1.5 hr nap
BT: Asleep (hopefully!) by 7pm
So maybe your DS needs some more daytime sleep to get him through the nights? Maybe this is contributing to the NW's?
Hang in there! :)
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Thanks Sianie. Last night was only 1 NW (2am) and still the EW at 4:30am. I was able to get him to bed before 7pm (3hrs after his last A time) and his 2nd nap was 1hr45min, so total daytime sleep was nearly 3hrs. No waking after I put him to bed so some progress with curbing the OT.
I wonder if DS would have stayed asleep until at least 4:30am if he wasn't cold and REALLY wet. What do you do to get your lo thru until morning without having to change his nappy?
I'm also wondering if DS is EW at 4 or 4:30am based on habit, developmental, OT? Do you think I should wait at least a week of weaning before I tackle the EW to really see what it is due to or try to address now? Address with W2S? I never had much luck with that, but I am willing to try.
I'll let DS sleep this morning for 1.5 hrs as I know he is still tired from the EW. He is taking a really long time to fall back to sleep (1.5hrs) and then he'll wake an 1-1.5hrs later for the day.
Hope this works itself out but I am happy about the weaning of the night feedings. :-)
Thanks.
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Hi there....it does sound like things are moving in the right direction, great!!
You might find it takes him a few days to get used to not waking up for his night feeds...it had become a habit for DS too & he took a week to wean off the night feed & then a few more days to get him used to not waking at that time (his was 4am). I used to try & let him re-settle as much as poss but then go in if he wasn't (plus didn't want him waking up DD!)...I sat next to his cot & just put my hand on his back (he sleeps on his tummy & this has nearly always worked to settle him...he hated sssh/pat), hr gradually got used to the fact that it wasn't wake up time & then started sleeping through....
Unless Ellis has a dirty nappy (v. rare at night), then I've never changed his nappy at night. He's in really absorbent ones 'tho (Pampers Baby Dry).
How has your day been? :)
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Hi Sianie, well yesterday's naps were like textbook. I let DS sleep 1.5hrs for his first nap (he did it naturally). 2nd nap was 1hr20min so I was hopeful for a good night. However, that wasn't the case. I really don't know what is going on or if I'm doing something wrong.
There seems to be a couple of things going wonky. First, DS is taking forever to settle at night. I have to start at least an hour before I really want him to go to bed, otherwise he'll go to bed too late and be OT. I'm not sure if he is in an OT/UT loop, teething, getting used to not getting fed at night???? I'm at a loss and losing it.....I was up most of last night and all he does is cry.
-To rule out teeth, I have medicated him right before BT - that doesn't do anything.
-I try to put him to bed early to combat the OT, but he doesn't settle easily and just cries and at times it will take a good hour to get him to bed.
-Been doing my own PU/PD to get him past his usualy times for feeding and he just gnaws like crazy at his blankie. I suppose he is trying to tell me that he doesn't know how to fall back to sleep without the feeding.
-If it is OT/UT loop, I don't even know where to begin to address it.
I just tried to put him down for his 1st nap, he is soo tired but is fighting me like crazy - I know he is OT! A time 3hr 40 min and counting.
I'm sorry to just blather on like this. I appreciate all your help, I just don't know what to do. I have created a monster through all my bad AP'ing. I do hope that time will help my DS adjust. And of course DD is sad too because she knows mommy is so tired and a bear at times.
Thanks for listening.
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So he definitely had good naps....that means he shouldn't have been OT by BT...
What's his personality like? I ask as DD is mega spirited and needs a really long wind down before bed, always has whereas DS is very calm and laid back & I can put him down after only 5-10 mins wind down.
If it's pain that's causing him to be unsettled I'd give him meds 20-30 mins before BT so they kick in before he goes to sleep. From what you've said it does sound like teething/discomfort to me? Teething can also lead to OT & usually you have to cut A times back whilst teeth are coming through.
You are doing a great job, don't forget that! It is so hard with 2 LO's & you can only do what you are doing! :)
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DS is spirited for sure. What really baffles me is that for naps DS goes down so quickly, I mean within minutes or seconds sometimes (except for the last 2 days) and BT is completely different. I am trying hard to avoid giving his last bottle and having him fall asleep as I do not want that to become a prop. So my routine is pretty much the same every night - bath, bottle and then sit in rocker quietly as I tell him it is sleepy time. After about 10 min I put him in the crib and he just rolls around and tries to crawl and at times it takes up to an hour to fall asleep. The room is dark, there is white noise and I'm right there with him.
I let DS sleep for 2hrs this morning hoping to curb the OT from last night. I'll shoot for the regular 2hr40min-3hr of A time and see if he'll go down for a 2nd nap and I'm hoping for at least an hour.
I also think DS is in pain, maybe coming down with a head cold (DH and DD had sniffles for last week). It's never been this bad, but maybe it is a combo of teeth and cold??? I'll continue to medicate and hope for a better night.
Thanks again Sianie.
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You could also try a dream med in the early hours once his 1st lot of meds have worn off...use a syringe if you have 1?
If he is feeling unwell from teeth/ cold etc then it will make him a lot more unsettled & out of sorts (especially as he's spirited!) so you may need to keep A times lower to prevent OT until he feels better.
Hope you have a better day! ;)
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Hi Jackman
So sorry you've been having a rough time. Big big hugs to you. Has LO always taken a long time to settle at BT or is that a new issue? Hope u have a good night tonight. X
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I can't tell you how much I appreciate both of you. It means so much to have someone out there who understands how difficult it is with lo's. I try to explain to DH, but if it isn't a mathematical formula, it kinda goes in one ear and out the other IYKWIM. LOL.
Zebstiredmum - this is definitely a new thing for DS at BT to take so long to settle. It used to take him 10 min if not less, but lately I'm sure it is a combination of changes for him that is causing it? Or at least that is what I try to tell myself.
Sianie - I'll definitely give a dream med a go this evening. I really am starting to think that DS is not well. He fell asleep while we were driving home from the shops this afternoon. I was targeting an A time of 2hr 40min and he basically did exactly what I thought. He usually can only sleep 45 min tops if not in his cot. At least he got a good 2hr nap in this morning.
I'll let you both know how it goes over the next few days. My mum is coming for a visit on Sunday and I had hoped to have DS on his way to good nights before she came as she tends to intervene a bit too much. I know she means well, but there is a madness to all of this right? I just don't want all that I have worked hard to do for DS in the last week go to pot.
BTW, how are things going for the both of you? I'm hoping better than me!! :-)
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Hi Jackman, I am sorry you are going through this. My DS was wetting through everything and after some trial and error my DS goes to bed with a size 4 Huggies overnight and a Pull up diaper over top. It seems crazy and he has the biggest bum, but it works. I used to change him during the dream feed, but I found it really didnt help. We are weaning out the DF now so I am hoping we can go back to just a Pampers 12hr or just a Huggies Overnight soon.
I have had no luck with trying to get my DS to nap and sleep better at night. Unfortunately we have had some time away from the house and it has messed up any progress. So we are now back at home for at least a couple weeks to try and get things on track. I am so tired of trying to find a solution. I know i need to be patient but my goodness it is exhausting.
I am praying the next couple weeks of being at home, and not going out during nap times will work. I may go a bit stir crazy but willing to try anything!
Carrie
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Hi Carrie - thanks for the suggestion on the diapers for overnight. I may just have to give that a try. ;-)
Yes it is exhausting and at times I have to step away for a few seconds to breathe and calm myself so my DS doesn't feel how frustrated I can become. Or I get on this forum and hope that the ladies on here can help me to find my center.
Hugs to you and the one thing that keeps me going is knowing that we are instilling good sleeping habits for life. I didn't do this with my DD (3yo) and we are still battling BT and NWs with her.
I do find that staying home and trying to get decent naps can really help to get lo's back on track. Altho you can also feel trapped and I believe that is what many of the mom's in the 7-9mo birth clubs have stated. I'm sorry that you are experiencing trouble too.
Keeping my fingers crossed that the next few weeks help you to figure out your issues for better naps and nights. Have you posted to see if someone can help you?
DS went to bed so much better tonight (within 15min), so hoping for a good night.....
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Hi everyone, I just posted a similar thread in NW's - I have a 7mo DS.
You are really strong to wean off feeds and the dummy at night - I am so nervous about doing that - my DS always seems to want to suck on something - he usually mouths my arm whenever he is tired and wants to comfort suck, hence the reason i started using the dummy (was better than BF every 2 hours!!).
My DS is really fussy with solids, so is only having 3 small meals (and sometimes only 2 if he is grumpy), so I feel bad if I dont feed him at night. How do I know if its habitual or whether he needs them??
Anyway, would love to see the progress of this thread - have attached mine below, in case anyone wants to give me advice too!!
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=177338.msg2006605#msg2006605
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Hi Jackman
Glad to hear he settled quicker - could it be discomfort causing him to take a long time to settle? Maybe wind - then the bedtime meds wouldn't make a difference. Do you keep a food diary? I found that LO didn't settle well if I gave him yogurt at tea time. Or hunger? My LO started taking longer to settle, but now I give him a top up FF he settles really well (I know your LO if FF, but is he finishing his full feed? maybe he was having a bit of a GS and wanting a bit more?
I've had a few really good nights - even sleeping through till nearly 7am a couple of times!! I'm experimenting, but I think the days he sleeps late are the days he's had banana for breakfast...my friend said she thought her LO slept better when he'd had banana too...I'll keep you posted.
Last night he did have an NW, I left him as he was trying to self settle, but every now and then he'd whimper. When I went in and cuddled him he felt really cold and I noticed temp in room also lower than usual, so I switched his summer sleeping bag for a winter one and he settled straight away. Do you use baby sleeping bags/ have a thermometer in LOs bedroom?
I have insomnia at the moment though, so in spite of better nights from LO I'm still not getting any sleep!! :P
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Zebstiredmum - I'm glad to hear that your LO is sleeping in later. Please do tell me if your banana theory works for later mornings. I will try anything to get us thru the EWs. We had one last night at 4:30am and DS took an hour to fall asleep. Only good thing was that he did stay asleep until 7:30am once back down. He hasn't slept that late for a long time as he usually wakes 40-60min after an EW.
We also had 1 NW around 10pm and it was due to temp. DS was hot and I'm starting to think we need a thermometer in the room as I think 1/2 of the time DS wakes due to hot/cold issues. Do you have one and if so, what is a good brand?
Funny you should mention yogurt causing your DS wind at night since I do feed DS some at dinner. So tonight I didn't feed it to him and I'll see if it helps him sleep better. I do keep a log of DS' meals and if I believe it makes a difference in naps or bedtime, I'll repeat the same meals and hope for similar results. LOL.
Again, DS settled easily tonight and you might be right about a GS or just still adjusting to not having nightfeedings. The last few days, DS has taken more formula during the day and I gave him a top up right before bed. I hope we will see even more progress in the next few nights or at least another week.
Have your EWs passed? What would you do when DS would have an EW? I have given up trying to resettle and instead just let him roll around and stay in the room so he knows that I'm there with him until he falls asleep again. I'm not sure if that is a false sense of security for him or a prop? What are your thoughts?
Hopefully you get over your insomnia soon and sleep. I too can't sleep well if I have been up several times a night for a few nights. The night DS STTN, I was up at least 3 or 4 times expecting him to cry out for me.
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Hi there!
Re: room thermometer, guess it depends how much you want to spend....we bought a 'Gro-Egg' thermometer when we had DD....egg shaped as the name suggests & changes colour depending on the temp of the room. DS's baby monitor also shows room temp on it which has been really useful.
Do you use baby sleeping bags? They have been a great buy for my LO's & have really helped with regulating LO's temps whilst they are asleep & also mean they can't pull covers off etc
Might be worth just leaving DS to settle himself without you going into the room when you get a EW. You might find that he settles quicker if you aren't there?
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Hi Jackman
I have a Gro-egg thermometer too - it's great - it acts like a night light too, giving off just enough glow for me to be able to see when I go in to DS in the night. EWs seem to have passed (fingers crossed) - only one this week. No banana yesterday but he still slept till 6.30ish (normal pre EW wake up time), so maybe the banana theory is disproved!
Also baby sleeping bags - if you aren't using them - I definitely recommend them, a bit expensive, but worth it.
When I get EWs I leave DS as long as possible in the hope that he'll resettle, but he usually doesn't. A couple of times when he woke at 5.30 I tried feeding to see if that'd get him back to sleep but that didn't work either! Over the last week he woke once at 5.30, but was happy - just making squealy happy noises and playing in his cot, so I left him, and he didn't get grumpy until 6.30, so I got him up then and fed him.
If he has an EW and cries for over 10 mins, or sounds really distressed then I try PUPD for as long as possible, a couple of times he's really tried to settle but keeps tossing and turning, then crying again, and I've given meds (calpol) after which he settled straight away, so I guess he was probably in pain.
Hope your nights improve soon :)(and fingers crossed that mine don't revert, and that my insomnia passes! ::))
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Sianie & Zebstiredmum - thank you both about the Gro-Egg idea. I'll check one out over the next couple of days. What sort of sleeping bag (brand) do you both use? Do you have anything else under the sleep slack? How about when winter arrives?
This morning we had an EW at 5:30am and I just left DS roll around and mantra cry until around 6:40am when I finally went in to start our day. We also had zero NWs, so technically DS slept from 7:3opm - 5:30am and that is STTN!! Yay! A second one for us which is huge. The top up right before bed truly helped Z to settle for BT and got him thru the night, thanks for the suggestion. :-)
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Congratulations Jackman, so happy for you. I use the Halo Sleep Sacs and they are great as you can get them in different material (cooler for summer, warmer for Winter). I got them extra big which helps as they arent cheap. I noticed you are from Portland and I am in Canada and we have a Winners which I think your equivilent is TJMax. Anyway, Winners had them for $10 which is great compared to the $40 price tag at Toys R Us. Might be worth trying or you can usually buy more on-line in the US than Canada.
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Great news Jackman....things are definitely moving forward!!
I use 'Gro-bags'....I've tried lots of different brands & I think these are the best ones ('tho typical, not the cheapest ones!), not sure if you can get them where you live. Both my LO's have been in Gro-bags since birth & they have been a godsend! DD is still in one now at over 2 yrs old! As pp said, you can different thicknesses of bag e.g. 1 tog for summer/warmer weather & 2.5 tog for cold/winter. I use the room thermometer to work out which tog to use plus both my LO's have always been quite 'hot' babies. When it's hot they'll maybe wear a short-sleeve/sleeve-less vest underneath & in the winter I put them in sleep-suits with a vest underneath.
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Ok, so have a new one that I hope maybe one of you can help me with....the last couple of nights DS has woken at 3:30am and just played in the cot until 5am!!!! I don't intervene (have been following your suggestions and he is getting really good at self settling) just listen for the 'I need you' cry. Eventually he falls asleep on his own.
I'm completely baffled because he is napping like a champ during the day (3hrs). Even with the 1.5hrs of no sleep, he can go 3hrs until his 1st nap. One night I thought maybe it was because I let him sleep 3.5hrs during the day since he is a bit under the weather, but last night it was the same thing - awake at 3:30 and no fuss until 5am and that was with 3hr of total day sleep. Even though he has a bit of a runny nose, he isn't crying during this time needing me to comfort him.
So I wonder....
(1) is he getting too much day sleep? should I try and cap it?
(2) do I try to extend his A times eventhough his naps are really good? either 2hrs in am and 1hr in pm or 1hr in am and 2hrs in pm.
(3) do you think it is still developmental?
(4) is it because he is a bit under the weather?
would love your thoughts....how have your days and nights been?
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Hmmmm, well usually if LO's wake up & are happily playing rather than crying I think it means they need more A time &/or shorter amount of daytime sleep?
TBH, if I were you I wouldn't do anything for a couple more days to see if this becomes more of a pattern iyswim? With the issues you've had with his NW's etc plus the fact that you have made progress, I'd be a wee bit hesitant to do more routine tweaking too soon unless it's definitely needed? Does this make sense?
Things ok with us, tho we have regressed back to having to fit a CN in for DS the last few days as he has been waking early & having shorter naps. Thinking about going to set naps & have posted on naps board for any thoughts!
:)
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S - I knew you would be my voice of reasoning....I won't do anything with our routine. Just keep it as is and see if DS just comes out of this.
Have you tried to push your A times just a little to see if it would help get you a longer nap? I too think alot about set nap times as it is so hard to get the right A times and I have heard that it helps when you have another lo. I wouldn't mind following along on your nap thread just to get prepared once my naps go to pot (as I know they will eventually)! Hope that is ok with you..
Thanks and good luck.
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No worries :)
I'd re-assess at the end of the week & see how things are....let us know!!
Yeah, had thought about extending A times but he's not long been on 3hrs-ish A times. It's not so much of a problem when he wakes nearer 7am & has a decent 1st nap (at least 1.5hrs), he can then get through the day on 2 naps. I did & still do set naps with DD but can't for the life of me remember what set naps I did with her when she was Ellis's age ::).....Pls follow along!!
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Hi Jackman, I have just come on looking for hints about my LOs NWs and seems we are having exactly the same probs now! Waking (anywhere between 2-4am for us) and chatting but not crying. ??? We have left it 30 mins before going in (which obviously disturbs him) and I end up feeding him so he goes back to sleep. (I know that we shouldn't be doing this but we are finding it hard to lie in bed and listen to him). On our birth club thread Bug_Blues commented that maybe he is getting too much day sleep which got me thinking. I have been letting him sleep for 2 hours on his am nap as he has been having 45 mins in the pm recently. He has then been going for 1 hr in the aft too! He never goes over 3 hours DT sleep though. So today I capped his am sleep at 1.5hr and he had 1hr this aft (woke to preserve BT). Will see how that goes.
Good luck for tonight.
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Thanks Buntybear. I would love to hear how it goes with decreased amount of DT sleep as I won't do anything right now as Sianie has suggested. We have just made some huge leaps with our routine.
Good luck to you for night's sleep.
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Hi Jackman, Bunty Bear & Sianie
I've only got time for a really quick post - just to say that I do think to some extent the EW/NW is developmental as so many people on here seem to go through this at 7-8 months, also 2 of my friends, who didn't use BW routines, and not sure if they used any routine, their LOs did the same thing at this age, and came through it on their own in a couple of weeks.
My LO seems to be through it, fingers crossed....
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Hi Z.....think you're right that it's developmental. Touch wood DS hasn't had any NW's (everything crossed!)...but I do think he's teething again :P
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Thanks Buntybear. I would love to hear how it goes with decreased amount of DT sleep as I won't do anything right now as Sianie has suggested. We have just made some huge leaps with our routine.
Good luck to you for night's sleep.
Hi, Well he slept from 7.30 to 6.15ish (I went in at 6.45). So first night worked but was it a fluke? We'll find out over the next couple of nights!
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Oh, great news Buntybear! :) Fingers crossed it continues!!
Just out of interest, what did your day look like yesterday?
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Something like this
E - 7.30 (lie in!!)
S - 10.30 (capped 1.5hr)
E - 12
S - 3.10 (1hr - woke as we try not to let him sleep much after 4)
E - 4.10
S - 7.30
We norm aim for 3hrs A time, obv sometimes shorter if particluarly grumpy, longer if we can stretch it and he is happy.
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That is great news Buntybear! Hoping that your theory works again tonight. Pls keep me posted. Q - if you let your lo sleep past 4, does he have a hard time settling for BT? I'm still trying to figuring out why some nights my DS takes forever to settle. Sometimes all it takes is a top up of formula, but that wasn't the case last night. So just trying to troubleshoot.
Well yesterday DS shortened his naps on his own totaling 2.5hrs. However both am and pm naps, I had to extend after 40 or 50 min so I'm wondering if he is needing a longer A time. No worries Sianie - I'm not going to try anything until this weekend as we discussed. :)
I then tried to put him to bed at least 3-3.5hrs after nap #2, but he wouldn't settle and ended up with an A time of 4hrs. Of course he woke 2x before midnight due to OT. DH and the dog woke him this morning at 6am (I'm sure he would have slept longer as he was tired). UGH!!!! Two steps forward and one step back right Sianie??? :)
At least we didn't have a 2hr playathon at 3:30am!!! :roll
I kept DS up until 9:30am and he went down easily for his first nap. I'm hoping for a better day of naps and a good night. Hope everyone else is doing well.
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40/50min naps can be UT.....when is the last time you increased his A time? I would say if you are having similar issues for 3 consecutive days then maybe increase A time?
Definitely sounds OT, i've always found the trouble with extending naps is that as the nap has been disrupted, even if they go back to sleep it's not as restorative as it's been interrupted so usually have to shorten following A time....
Did you look at my post on the Naps board re: set naps....got some good replies so thinking I'm going to try & do 1 nap at 10am & then 2nd nap at 2/2.30am....hoping it will take away the issue of trying to judge A times every day plus make things easier to plan with DD. Might be worth a try for you once you have your nights sorted? :)
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Q - if you let your lo sleep past 4, does he have a hard time settling for BT? I'm still trying to figuring out why some nights my DS takes forever to settle. Sometimes all it takes is a top up of formula, but that wasn't the case last night. So just trying to troubleshoot.
Well, I normally time his BT for 3ish hours after he wakes and he normally goes down OK. Last night he did need a tiny bit of help (just needed hand on chest for 30 seconds) but he has been a bit like that recently (thought it was a bit of SA) but last night I thought it was because he had 2.5 hours of naps.
Anyway I have to admit that I let him have 3 hrs again today. He actually had 2 x 1.5 hours which has never happened since I dropped his CN. Result! Managed to extend pm naps using W2S for last 4 days ;D. Let's see if that makes a difference tonight.
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Sianie - hope you are still online and can help me think this one out. DS woke 30 min after his first nap. I tried to put him back down but he wasn't having it and I know that is an OT nap. I waited almost an hour and put him down again and now he is asleep. So my question is, would you do this for the remainder of the day?
Let him sleep at least an hour and if he continues to sleep, wake him. Keep his 2nd A time to 2.5hrs or 2.75 since the first nap was broken. Let 2nd nap be 1.5hrs (ideal situation of course) and get him to bed early (BT 2.5hrs after 2nd nap).
I did see your posting and suggestions from others about the set nap times. I will definitely give it a go once I get these darn nights sorted.
Thoughts??
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Hi...hope I catch you in time (not sure what the time difference is between us?!)
What was his A time before the 30 min nap?
Personally, I'd leave him to sleep as long as he needs & wouldn't wake him up.....let him catch up then adjust the rest of the day accordingly? I guess as he's had a short nap you need to try & get as much sleep in during the rest of the day as poss so he doesn't get too OT by BT....
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Ok well he woke again after 30 min. It's lunchtime now, so am feeding DS and I was thinking of just watching his cues for his next nap and then I'll just let him sleep for as long as he can without hurting BT.
Ugh Sianie, not sure what is happening. Perhaps my mom being here is throwing him for a loop. So funny how lo's can be so sensitive to those sort of things. He does have congestion, but he never acts like it bothers him.....
What you think?
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They can get a lot more OS at this age as they are so much more alert so maybe with your Mum staying that's partly it?
Could also be congestion bothering him....try meds to make sure it's not an issue? Is he teething? DS is teething again & his naps have gone a bit wonky so I'm giving meds before sleeps and he's been better today....
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So after somewhat unconventional naps (2 - 30min and then 1 broken nap of 50 min and then 20 min) and a last A time of nearly 4hrs, DS STTN (7:40pm until 6:20am). I tried for an early BT around 6:15 and he kept fighting me.
I do not at all understand but I will take it. And of course I was such a stress bucket yesterday thinking his night sleep would be horrendous. Ugh, I need to learn how to relax.....
One good thing is that it was the second night of not waking at 3:30am or 4:30am for a playfest, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that stage is behind us.
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WOW brilliant - I have found often that STTN has come after a day of bad naps - doesn't always figure that good day sleep equals good night sleep IMHO
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Jackman, so glad to hear. It gives me hope!
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Great news J!!! ;D......of course throws all logic out the window of good naps = good nights sleep ::)
What do you think caused his naps to go out of whack? Any better today? What time is it with you anyway? 8.45pm here.....
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Hi S - It's 12:49pm here in Portland, OR.
I think it is like we said, OS with my mom visiting. Also DS is learning how to sit from a crawl position so that could be throwing things off too.
Well I had to take DD to swim class this morning and my mom watched DS. I asked her to put him down at 10am and he did go down like a champ. However, mom woke him up after 1hr!!! Oh well, I can't control her either so hopefully DS will sleep a good 1.5-2hrs this afternoon.
We've had 3 nights of STTN, but not consecutively. I'm betting that tonight will be one with NWs.....it's just my luck. ;)
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Ok, so you are roughly 8hrs (ahead or behind....I'm not sure!?)
The fact that he has even had 3 nights of sleeping through means you are on the right track....it will all come good!! :)
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Hi S and Z - I went out and bought a Gro-Egg and noticed that the recommeded temp was 16C to 19C (61F to 67F). I think that is cold!!! Do you both have your rooms at the recommeded temp and use a sleep sack to help keep lo warm?
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My Lo's rooms aren't always at the recommended temp...depends on the weather e.g. today it's been really warm here & DS's room was 23 degrees (too warm), even with window open & fan on, so he has been sleeping in a 0.5 tog sleeping bag (thinest you can get) with just his nappy on underneath ('tho DS is a particularly warm baby).
The temps are there as a guideline & then you adjust bed-clothing as necessary, but take into account that your LO may be a colder/wamer baby than the average. :)
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Jackman
I use grobags too - they are fantastic. I think a good temperature is about 19/20C. Im sure when the room was 17C, DS woke up a lot more, and was more active in bed - maybe to try to keep warm. DS loves sleeping on his tummy/side, so i cant tuck him in anymore, hence why the grobags are great.
I have a thermometer on the wall, and i try to keep the room at about 20C. In summer, its very difficult to keep it that cold, it sometimes gets up to 24-26C, which is not ideal. As sianie said, i just sleep him in less with a very thin grobag.
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DS has woken at 5am for the last two days?!! I shouldn't complain since he has been STTN, but the EWs are baffling since it is only 9-9.5hrs of sleep. DS is no where getting the recommended amount of sleep of 11-12hrs a night. Yesterday's naps were 3hrs with the longest in the am (1hr45min) and I kept him up until 9am eventhough he woke at 5am. PM nap was 1hr 15min (had to wake to preserve BT).
I suppose I do the same today?? Are you getting EWs too Sianie? Has the set naps helped at all?
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What do you do when he wakes at 5am?
Have you tried an earlier BT? Even if he still wakes early he should get more hours sleep?
Touch wood, we don't get many EW's with DS. Still working on set naps.....today's not been so good, did a short PM so who knows what he'll be like tonight ::)
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J - how are things going? x
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Hi S!! :)
Things have been touch and go lately with NWs and EWs. Obviously having my parents here for two weeks really threw a wrench into everything. So I tried really hard not to stress about naps and nights.
DS was OS, was sick, is teething (medicating) and is learning to sit/pull himself up. You name it, we had it! I have been wondering if I should post something or just ride things out. I'm glad you are asking as I need someone to have as a sounding board for what is happening.
My parents left on Friday and since then DS has been sleeping better. In fact, the last two nights he has STTN (first for him to have 2 nights in a row) and the kicker - he wakes at 5 or 5:30am ready for the day!!! UGH. He is sleeping only 10hrs a night and 3hrs during the day. Here is our EASY and my thoughts that I need your help with:
5:00/5:30am Stirs and I leave him to see if he'll fall back to sleep. Last couple of days I have gone in at 6:00am as he starts screaming!
7:00am Bottle
8:30am Breakfast
9:30am/9:45am Nap #1 (I have to wake him after 1.5hrs)
Noon Lunch
2:00pm Bottle
2:30pm Nap #2 (I have to wake him after 1.5hrs)
4:30pm Dinner
6:00pm Bedtime routine - bath and bottle hoping he sleeps by 6:30pm/6:45pm
- His naps have been great as you can see, so I don't think he needs more A time
- I've been keeping him up until 9:30am to prevent Nap#1 as part of night time sleep
- When he STTN, he wakes at 5/5:30am. If he has 1NW, then he'll sleep until 6/6:30am.
- I still can't get the right A time after Nap #2. Friday, I had to wake DS at 4:10pm and he lasted until 6:40pm. So last night I tried to do the same as he woke around the same time from Nap #2. Unfortunately no matter how hard I tried, DS didn't go to sleep until nearly 8pm!!! I thought for sure our night would be full of NWs, but he slept until 5:30am. So does that mean after a night of sleeping thru and naps of 3hrs, his last A time could be nearly 4hrs?
I'm afraid to even think about the 2-1 transition, but I read on one of the FAQ that good solid naps could be an indication.....
Thoughts???? TIA.
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So tonight was a repeat of last - BT nearly 8pm despite my efforts of trying around 6/6:30pm. DS' afternoon nap was 1.5hrs and ended at 4pm (woke on his own and am nap was 1.5hrs). I don't mind DS going to bed around 8 if he just didn't wake at 5/5:30am. His days are way too long (I know) and I have been trying to get him to bed earlier to see if that could curb his waking at the crack of dawn, but no go. Do I need to cap his naps? Right now the set nap times are working for us in terms of giving him good naps, but the BT takes forever to settle.
Ideally I wouldn't mind DS waking around 6:30/7am and going to bed at 6:30/7pm. How do I get there? I shouldn't complain too much as DS STTN the last two nights (knock on wood) have been great - what I have wanted for many many months. I'm hoping we don't have any NWs tonight, but we'll see.
What do you think?
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Hi J!
I'm no EW expert but from what I know EW's can be OT/UT &/or an indication that you need to re-jig his daytime sleep?
I think the 2-1 transition can start around 9mths so it could be a possibility.....have you thought about doing 1 long & 1 short nap? I know you can go to a long AM & short PM nap (or vice versa)....I'm sure there's some info on it on here somewhere?
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Hi S - It's nearly 6am and we had a terrible night. DS was definitely OT and so we had multiple NWs. He woke at midnight and screamed for over an hour. I medicated and shame on me, but I gave him a bottle and he drank a full one. I was hoping that he would sleep after a terrible early evening, but at 5:30am this morning he woke with screams again and ready to go for the day. He would not go back to sleep despite my efforts.
So now I'm not sure what it is - teeth? hunger? the 2-1 transition? OT/UT cycle? He is definitely tired and will be shattered by 9:30am. Do you think I should post something asking the question about the 2-1 transition? I have been reading as much as I can to look for answers, but it is nice to get opinions on your own issue.
It's gonna be a rough day.
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Hey...sorry you had a rough night!!
Yep, might be worth posting a new thread to get some more ideas! Defo sounds like OT so guess you need to try & get him caught up today as much as you can to try & stop the dreaded OT loop!!!! Let me know how you get on! x
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I will post a new thread.
So I was finally able to get DS down, it's 6:30am. Do you think I should let him sleep as long as he wants this morning? If so, do I then just watch A times as the set naps will be messed up. Or should I wake him at 7am and start the day? I don't know what to do that will be best for him since you are right, I need to let him catch up so that the OT isn't worse.
I think there is some sort of teething going on.....
Thanks.
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Do you mean back down at 6.30am after EW?
I'd probably get him up at 7am ('tho it depends how long he had been awake for before?) & start the day then & try to stick to set naps times as much as poss (give or take 15 mins), I'd probably cap his naps at 2hrs if he sleeps that long to allow him to catch up a bit.
Guess you are giving teething meds etc before sleeps?
As you know my naps have gone a bit to pot so I'm probably the last person you want to listen to, lol!! ::)
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LOL S!!! If it wasn't for you and some of the other ladies, I would go mad! You have been spot on, so don't sell yourself short. :)
Yeah, he fell asleep at 6:30am after his EW at 5:30am and multiple NWs. Tho DS woke up himself at 7:10am. We went about our usual morn and I put him down at 9:30am. He woke up himself at 10:50am and that is a first for him in about 3 or so days. I have been having to wake him after 1.5hrs. He still looks sooo tired.
I'm gonna shoot for 2pm nap and see if that helps him with the OT. Obviously try for early BT like 6:30pm right?
I have been giving him meds to help with teething. Just hope something pops thru soon.
I posted on the EASY board, not sure if it was the right board, but hopefully someone sees it and gives some advice.
I know your naps have gone to pot and my nights have never been good. Maybe we need to give each other some vibes so we have perfect days and nights?? If it were only that easy right? Wait, we are doing EASY!!! LOL.
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lol! Yeah, ironic that my nights are good & your days are good....our LO's need to talk!! ;D
What set nap times have you been using?
Have you been using ibuprofen? Just mentioning it as I've found this better for teething than paracetamol as it's anti-inflammatory.
2pm nap sounds about right.....fingers crossed for a better PM & eve! x
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Hi Jackman and Sian, I am following all your posts cause I am right there with you. Gosh, last night my little guy felt like partying at 12am till about 1:30am then woke at 5am and didnt go back to sleep. Naps are hit and miss, yesterday and today good but Sunday terrible. (I drove up and down the street to get him to sleep and no luck!!).
I feel like giving up sometimes so not that I wish this on anyone but it is nice to know I am not alone. I have seperate posts to focus on my specific issus but will stay close to this in case anyone has any tips or advice.
Are either of you working right now? Gosh I am dreeding work if this keeps up. I have 3 months till i go back and I know alot can happen so trying to stay positive.
Carrie
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Hi Carrie!
Looks like we're all in similar boats! I don't really remember things being this tricky with DD but guess my preggie brain has erased it, lol!
I do think that a lot of this may be an age/developmental thing! Also, it's interesting that all our LO's are little boys (I have read that boys are generally poorer sleepers than girls).
Touch wood, Ellis's nights are pretty good, it's naps that are more of an issue for us,'tho you can guarantee that as soon as I get his naps started his nights will go to pot! ::)
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P.S - for now I'm a SAHM as I have a 27mth old too, but I can understand you feeling anxious about going back to work. Although a lot can happen in 3 mths time & I know with DD by the time she was 1 things got a lot more settled! :)
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Hi Jackman, Sianie & Hud's Mom
Just wanted to say Hi - haven't posted for a while as went away for a few days, and been busy. Just want to give you a bit of hope - I had EWs with my DS, then EWs AND NWs - the NWs were for a couple of weeks, but it felt like forever! The EWs (5am) were for a couple of months. Still getting the occasional NW - 2 nights ago we had one at 2.30am, he wouldn't settle and I eventually fed him at 3.30am - I haven't night fed since I night weaned him at 4 months (apart from a few times at 5am). Anyway I think he was in a lot of pain - stomach ache judging by the way he was arching his back and screaming so I think he worked up an appetite by the time he'd stopped screaming. But I digress - on the whole the NWs and EWs have passed, even though his day time naps aren't great. (Am nap = around 1.5 hours, Pm nap - usually about 35-40 mins, but a couple of times a week sleeps for a bit longer)
He was getting very OT by bedtime because of short pm nap, but also seems to be over that too. So big hugs to you all - I hope your LOs sleep better soon.
Also, it's interesting that all our LO's are little boys (I have read that boys are generally poorer sleepers than girls).
- I haven't come across that but I suspected it! None of the Mum's with girls who I've met at groups have problems with sleep!
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Hey Z! Good to hear from you...really glad things have improved, yay!!
DD is definitely a better sleeper than DS, 'tho who knows if it's gender related!! ???
Your DS's naps sound really similar to Ellis's....his AM nap is usually pretty consistent & does around 1.5hrs & his PM nap is usually 45mins/1hr!
How old is your DS now? What time does he nap out of interest? x
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Hi Sianie
I seem to have lost my ticker - DS is 10 days away from 9 months old now - I can't believe it! The last 3 months have flown by!! The last week or so I think DS has been waking around 6.45, although some days I hear a little noise from him around 6.15 but then he goes quiet again, so I don't know if he's quietly playing or back to sleep. He has his first nap around 9.45/10am and his second nap at 2.30pm, although he can hang on till 3.30pm if we're out and about. He usually goes to bed at 7pm, sometimes a bit later, depending on what time he has his afternoon nap.
I really hope this good sleep lasts! I'm only just getting over my insomnia (caused by the regular NWs) :P
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Oh - my ticker is still there! :)
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Sorry, that's me not looking properly, lol! x
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I couldn't see it myself when I looked first time though!
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Hi ladies!! Thank you all for the support. Hugs to everyone. :)
Z - we've missed you!! So good to hear from you and glad to know that your lo has made it thru to the other side. No NWs or EWs and great naps is everyone's ideal solution and I would just like to have DS STTN consistently. I too fed DS last night as it was the only thing to settle him (I think he was genuinely hungry) and hope that he doesn't come to expect it again as I worked too hard to rid of the night feedings. Our lo's are very close in age. My DS will turn 9mo this Sunday. It's hard to imagine where all the time has gone.
S - our set naps have been around 9:30am and 2:30pm, tho the first nap has been good since DS wakes at 5:30am. So if we get our EWs sorted, I'm wondering if nap #1 will be around 9:45 or 10am similar to you and Z. Also if we are out and about DS can hang until 3:30pm similar to Z's lo.
I just put DS down for nap #2 (it's 2pm on the west coast US). Crossing fingers that this helps him with his OT. And like you S, I don't remember it being this difficult with DD (altho I worked FT and my mom cared for her). I do think it has to do with boys just not being good sleepers where as my DD can sleep thru anything, even her DB screaming his head off! LOL. So Huds Mom - I feel for you because it was hard juggling a FT job with a lo (can't imagine working when lo doesn't sleep at night and has multiple NWs and EWs), but at least my DD slept! I'll be where you are soon as I'm starting to think about going back to work. If that happens anytime soon, we'll need to support one another thru that as well! :)
Before all this craziness, I was letting DS take a short am nap and long pm nap to see if it would help him settle for BT at night. I think Buntybear had mentioned something about 2.5hrs of daytime sleep instead of 3 thinking our lo's were sleeping too much. Well I must have done something very wrong or it was just too much with everything else that is happening with him as our nights have gotten progressively worse since the weaning of night feedings. It's so up and down....:(
Crossing fingers and toes for everyone to have great night sleep and naps.....
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lol! I agree! We had a full blown air display here last week with jet's etc going really low right over our house & Megan didn't flinch at all during her nap!
Well, I'm off to bed.....hope you all have good rest of the day/night! x
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Well our day ended on a better note than the last two nights. Just put DS down for bed before 8pm, in fact before 6:30pm. He was sooo tired all day, OT for sure! Let's hope for STTN, but not holding my breath for a wake up after 5:30am. Maybe DS will surprise me?? ;)
DS slept for 1hr20min (nap #2) and I had an A time of 3hrs to BT. DS settled very easily and drank his BT bottle easier than the last few nights. S - I tried your suggestion of ibuprofen, wonder if that helped us! Thx. :)
BTW, I started a new post for my DS' current issues, so you ladies out there (S, Z, H and BBear) follow along as I couldn't live without some conversation with all of you as we figure out our lo's! Not sure if this will work, but here is the link:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=178200.msg2019939#msg2019939
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Hey was me toying with idea of too much DT sleep. Not that we 3 hours anyway. he got barely 1 on Sat and STTN!
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BB - I think your theory is still right. I just need to find that magical number of DT sleep to get him to STTN. Hope I didn't make it sound like it was your fault and that is why my DS has had difficulties. Sorry if that is how it sounded.
We made some progress last night. No EWs, woke at 6:30am but had 2 NWs. If it isn't one, it's the other. ;)
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Oh J! You can't win! ::)
Ellis seems to be doing around 2.5hrs daytime sleep at the mo & that seems to be working with him STTN! How have things been today?
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Hi J - sorry to hear you are still having problems. I hope your LO comes through this soon. DS had 2 good naps today - 1.5 hrs and 1 hour - but last 2 days we were out and about for his 2nd nap and he only sleeps for about 30 mins in his pram, so I think today he was on catch up. So our magic nap number seems to be 2 - 2.5 hours too.
Glad to hear your BTs have got better again though. :)
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Hi S&Z - it's definitely teeth. Jack is drooling and when he does wake at night, he is screaming!!! The ibuprofen is helping much more than the tylenol. Thx again S.
Good to know about the amt of DT sleep both of your lo's are doing. Jack went down for his first nap at 10am and woke 1hr20min later. I'm nervous about trying to play with the A time to get him to sleep 1.5hrs. I should prob just leave it? He is getting ready for his 2nd nap, which I plan for 2:30pm. Hoping he sleeps for at least an hour if not 1hr10min. Then BT at least 3hrs once he wakes from nap #2.
I think we will just have to ride this out until something breaks thru those gums. UGH! And I bet once things seem better (crossing fingers and toes that they do), my in-laws will be here for two week visit (arrive Sun) and everything will go to pot again due to OS!!!
I have one last question for either of you (gonna sound funny) - how do you get the 'Thank You' on your profile under the 'Showing Appreciation'? I notice I'm the only one that doesn't have it. And how does it work? S - it says you have 7. I guess I want all you ladies to know how much I appreciate you!! LOL! Silly me, I know....;)
How is Ellis today S? Z - your lo ok at night still?
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Hi!
Glad the ibuprofen is working! Definitely the best meds for teeth! Are you also using teething gel &/or teething salts too?
Ellis is ok thanks....trying to get back on track with set nap times after his cold threw everything off! Think I'm going to do 1st nap at 10am & hope he does up to 1.5hrs & then do 2nd nap at 2.15pm/2.30pm for hopefully an hour. He definitely does better with an early BT (around 6.30pm/6.45pm) & tends to do 11.5hrs-ish, so I need to keep his daytime naps around 2-2.5hrs!
If I were you, now you know it's teeth & you're medicating then I'd maybe try again with set A-times/nap times for a couple of days to see if that helps?
Re: 'Thank You' bit.....if you click on the 'Thank You' you should add to the number of thank you's on the persons profile!
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Well yesterday was horrible! Since my parents left, it was a first where I had to take DS with me to drop off DD at nursery. We had an EW at 5am and he fell asleep at 8am on way. I had to wake him so I could walk DD into nursery so he had a 20-30min CN. I thought for sure he would be so tired and go down at the usual set nap time of 9:30am, but he refused until 11:15am. Unfortunately, I had to wake him again after an hour to pick up DD from nursery. And here is the kicker - he refused any more napping and had an A time of 6hr15min until BT. Yes, you heard me right, 6hr15min. Needless to say he was OT!! Had 2NWs and EW at 5:30am.
I think it is a combo of things S - teething, milestones and the 2-1 transition. I'm gonna just have to take the next couple of days to let DS recover from OT. I will still keep to the set nap times, but will not cap any of the naps. Max DT sleep at 3hrs and hope he gets back to normal. UGH, the last A time to BT is really throwing me for a loop and I know it is the culprit for Jack's OT/UT cycle. He just doesn't settle as easily as he does for his naps.
Thanks for listening.
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Oh J!! so sorry you had a rotten day!! It is really hard with nursery drop offs/pick ups....I'm in a similar boat a couple of days a week with DD as I pick her up at 2pm just around the time Ellis sleeps!
I think you are totally right to try & get his sleep caught up as much as poss over the next couple of days....try not to worry too much about A-times etc just go with his sleepy cues etc to get back on track a bit. Once things are on a bit more of an even keel I would definitely try either set naps or a short AM/long PM (or vice versa) to see if that helps with the NW's & EW???
Hang in there!!!! :)
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Hey S or anyone else who is out there and reading this post....
I think DS is getting the hang of STTN as long as I can prevent OT. He has done it two nights in a row now and this is the second time for 2 nights. I'm hoping tonight will be a first for a third. Unfortunately we are still struggling with the EWs.
DS took 3 short naps yesterday due to DD's preschool drop off and I was able to get him to bed at a reasonable time to dodge the OT monster. Yay!
One thing that I did differently and wanted to get your thoughts or anyone else's was feeding him at 5am. I know, I know I went thru so much to eliminate the night feedings, but these EWs are killing us. DS took a bottle and within 1/2 an hr was back to sleep until a decent wake up this morning at 6:50am. We were able to operate like normal family and not zombies. I took DS and DD to swim class at 8:30am and DS didn't fall asleep until his set nap of 10am. I plan to wake him very shortly to keep this nap at 1hr and shoot for 1.5hr nap this afternoon to see if it helps with the EWs. Shortening the first nap and not the second as I read somewhere you should do this if lo has EWs.
What do you think about me feeding DS this morning? I'm just at a loss right now on what to do....
Hope you all are doing well.
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Hi J!
Glad things are getting a bit better! ;D
TBH, I think you have to do what you feel is right (& to preserve your sanity!!) so if feeding Jack at 5am means you all have a better day then if I were you I'd be doing the same. At least until you can get things back on track a bit & you can start dropping it again? I think you're stuck in an OT loop & you somehow need to break this whatever way you can....
We're ok thanks , 'tho still battling a bit with naps....thought on set times Ellis would be a bit more predictable 'tho 1 day (i.e. yesterday he did 2 x 1.5 hr naps & I had to wake him from both, today however he struggled to do 1.5hrs for his 1st nap & only 45mins for his 2nd....go figure?! ???
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Hi Jackman,
Great to hear that you have had 2 STTNs! Result ;D
Not sure on the 5am feeds but if it works to delay wake up then try it. As you know from birth club I am still trying to drop the DF - if I do leave it then he wants a feed in the early hours, swings and roundabouts as they say!
Sian - know what you mean about naps changing everyday - no 2 days are the same for us!
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Thanks ladies. I think I might just feed DS in the early morning just so we can get thru this?? At least for the time being once the set nap times stick for a good few weeks and I can figure out how to get out of our OT loop.
Sianie - IMO, if Ellis is STTN, I wouldn't worry too much about his naps during the day. I know easier said than done and who am I to talk since I'm stressing about Jack's night sleep. It's obvious that you are so intune with your lo since the OT monster never visits your house! ;)
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How was your night J?
Yeah, I know I shouldn't get too stressed about it, it's just frustrating when no 2 days are the same and we haven't done anything differently! I am wondering whether to cap his 1st nap at 1hr & then hope he does a 1.5hr 2nd nap as the problem is that he generally does a good 1st nap (1.5hrs) then 2nd nap is never as long (maybe UT) but then I don't want to put him down later than I currently do (2.30pm) as this then pushes BT later & he does much better at night on an early BT (before 7pm)....
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Hi S - night was horrible. :'( I honestly don't know what is happening. Jack went down so easily last night around 6:15pm. I thought for sure I had kept the OT monster at bay. But then around 1am, he woke and was up until 4am when I finally fed him. This is where I am so confused because he drank 6oz of formula. So, he was hungry all that time??? I think we are dealing with some sort of growth spurt??? Who knows. When he finally woke at 7:30am he drank another 7.5oz and ate everything he usually does for breakfast. Yesterday was busy for him with swimming and he learned how to pull himself up and is cruising...maybe that is sparking him wanting more to eat? :-\
I don't know what to do about naps. I woke Jack from his am nap after 1 hr and his pm nap was 1hr10min, yet he woke last night for 3hrs. And as I said, I'm not sure if it was hunger or the 2-1 trans? I guess I need to get on one of the 2-1 threads to follow along for ideas.
Toying with the idea today to only let Jack take one long nap around 1pm. What else do I have to lose?
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Hey everyone, well the OT monster is at my house and i swear I feel like he lives here permantely. I was reading a post somewhere else where this doctor was saying that the lack of sleep babies have when they were younger can come back to haunt you months later and I had to laugh only cause I thought well heck I am going to be dealing with this for ever! (I laugh when I am stressed and tired as I dont know what else to do but cry!!).
Last night my little guy was up for 6 hours before he would go to sleep for the night, it was awful. I feel I am in this transition mode and dont know how to structure his EASY as longer activity times have made a later PM nap time which is affecting his bed time. Anway, i will have to play with it as like you Jackman i have nothing to loose at this point.
Would you guys be able to post your EASY's when you have a chance? I am hoping for a few ideas.
Oh and Jackman dont feel bad at all about your 5am feed, you have to do what will get you through and it will pass as well over time.
Wish i could help but really just so messed up
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:'( Great, more fun to look forward to as time progresses.
Hugs Carrie - I'm right there with you and about to pull out my hair. I finally put Jack down at 11:40am, after an A time of 3hr40min. I'm thinking this might be right for him right now especially when we aren't following the set nap times, which I'm not happy about and I know you can't fit a square peg into a circle. But ideally waking at 6:30 or 7, taking nap 1 at 9:30 or 10am, taking nap 2 at 2/2:30pm and going to bed at 7 would be great but our lo's have their own plan....
I'm just going to let Jack wake himself this am and limit the pm nap.
Here is our EASY:
5/5:30am Wake up
7:00am Bottle
8:30am Breakfast
9:30am Nap #1 (have been letting him sleep until he wakes and lately has been around 1.5hrs)
noon Lunch
1:30pm Bottle
2:30pm Nap #2 (tried capping at 1hr)
5:00pm Dinner
6:30pm Bedtime routine
shoot for 7pm asleep
Jack has been liking longer A times after his 2nd nap, almost 4hrs some nights. So I had been thinking about capping the am nap and bringing the pm nap sooner, but then you risk less daytime sleep and OT by BT. Honestly Carrie, I have no clue what to do.....
If we ever get another STTN until 4:30 or 5am, I'm just going to feed and put back to bed and hope that we have a decent wake up time. I'm going to look for more posts on just moving to one nap and see what others have had luck with. Let you know what I find and if you see anything, please let me know.
Good luck.
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Oh, I'm so sorry that you are both having such a horrible time! Really wish I had a magic wand to make it all better!! I do think that there are a number of issues here....age related milestones + GS + OT etc & hopefully a lot of it is just a case of riding things out & getting through things the best you can!!!
Although I'm (touching wood & crossing everything!) not dealing with EW's, Ellis does have NW's I guess the difference being he generally cries out then a few minutes later he's re-settled himself so I don't very often have to go in to him. I have to add he is Angel/Textbook which I think definitely makes things easier ('tho have a v. spirited DD to make up for it!!).
For what it's worth (& not sure if it helps!), our EASY is generally:
Awake: 6.30pm-ish
7am: (milk)
8/8.30am: Breakfast
10am: Nap (usually 1.5hrs)
11.30am: Milk
12.30pm/1pm: Lunch
2.30pm: Nap (up to an hour usually)
3.30pm-ish: Milk
5pm: Dinner
6.30pm/6.45pm: BT
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Thank you both so much for your EASY's. Right now mine is identical to yours Sianie, but am hoping to transition to yours Jackman really soon as swimming lessons at 11am to 12pm are cutting into his 11am bottle. Plus only 1 bottle during the day for day care will be easier.
Here's too hopefully a restful night for all of us and our LO's!
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Thought I'd check with you all....hows things going? :)
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Hi S!
It's been a hard 10 days since I last posted. :'( DS has not STTN and has multiple NWs with EW at 5am. Altho the EW I can resettle and then we start our day between 6 or 6:30am. I haven't asked for any help as the last thought from the EASY board was teething. No one saw any issues with our EASY. I do think teething is the culprit, but I just can't believe that they can wreck havoc for nearly 2 months. I do not remember this with Lilly. UGH!
Jack's top two teeth are just starting to break through. I'm still waiting on the right one to see if the NWs and EWs will stop to give our routine a week to get back on track. I haven't capped any of his naps to curb the OT and he has been for the most part sleeping very well during the day. Jack will have a couple of days where he sleeps a total of 3 hrs (I have to wake him) and then by the third day it will only be 2.5hrs (like today). I think he finally catches up from the lack of sleep he has. You would think his night sleep would be great, but it hasn't been. I'm quite envious of those who can have a horrible day and still get STTN! :-[
In terms of set naps, they sorta are there but not really since Jack's wake up and nap lengths aren't consistent. I think right now it's A times for us and so for the most part Jack is doing 3.5 hrs for his first and second A time and if he has 3hrs of DT sleep he'll do 3.5hrs for his last A time, but if DT sleep is 2.5hrs, A time will be 3hrs until BT. That's my theory anyway.
I'm not certain if once the teeth are completely thru if Jack will naturally cut his own naps like Ellis did for you. I thought for sure weaning the night feeds would get us to a good place for STTN. It seems that things are about the same if not worse on some nights, but I'm sure it is just 9 months of very little sleep that is taking a toll on me. I'm hoping we get there soon, for the sake of my family so I'm not such a grump!
I'm also thinking about posting on the toddler boards to get help with DD's sleeping at night. Since Jack was born Lilly has not STTN - that's 9 months of horrible sleeping for her too. As a result, Lilly is having the worst tantrums due to OT! I feel like a failure Sianie - just want my family to sleep well and be happy.......
Thanks for asking and listening. How are things with you? I know Ellis and Megan were/are sick. Things getting back on track and how are the set naps working?
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Oh Jackman, I hope you dont mind me chiming in here. You are not a failure, cause if you are, I am as well. I posted on another thread that I wish I never would have dropped the CN as it has been 2 months of complete chaos. We have NW's every night, some are easy to manage but lately they are partyfests. We have many days with bad PM naps so that leads to an early BT which means a very early morning. Today was 5am and yesterday 4:30am with no going back to sleep. Even days when we have good naps and BT is 7pm, I still get at 5am wake-up.
I have just accepted this as I feel like I have tried everything except for getting a sleep trainer to come to my house. I am lucky as I dont have to work right now and have no other children, so I am so sorry you are going through this. I am really hoping this phase will end and some of the other moms have gone through similar phases and it has passed so I am hopefull it will. I have to admit I am a bit of a control freak so I am very anxious about this not resolving itself and also very impatient!
Sorry I am not helping, but just wanted you to know you are not alone.
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Thanks Carrie. Having you just reply and reading my dribble, means the world to me. :)
I too am a control freak, which is why all of this drives me absolutely crazy. And I too have just come to accept that Jack is just not a sleeper. I think some people say you either have a lo that is a great eater and bad sleeper or bad eater and great sleeper. Maybe it's just me trying to come to some sort of reasoning with all of this.
Our lo's are two peas in a pod. Jack was having playfests but that seems to have pass along with the 4:30am wake up and ready for the day (about a week ago). Is your lo teething?
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Me too, my husband is very supportive but I think he may be a bit tired of my analysis of everything and i feel all we ever talk about is my LO's routine (or lack there of!). My friends too think I am a little crazy with how much I have been following baby whisperer but that is just me, I need to feel like I have some control and for the most part it has really worked. Some of my friends LO's have just naturally found a routine and sleep really well. I think they just got lucky!
My DS has been teething since 4.5months (well that is what it feels like) and we have no teeth yet which just scares me as I am sure we are in for quite a ride when they actually come in. Each day I look kind of hoping I will see some sign they are further along.
Good to know your partyfests and EW's have passed as it gives me hope!
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Hi everyone, just came across this post and reading and my LO is going through the same thing too.. ughgh.. and to think he was STTN before for about 1 1/2 months. ughhg I don't know what to do anymore .. maybe just ride it through.
My LO is doing the same EASY as Jackmans but he is only 7 months and into the 2nd week!
NWs EVERY hour from BT but he settles himself most times at times I have to go pat him. After DF at about 10:30 there's nothing till about 4:ish then wakes everyhour again (probably at his light sleep stage and can't go back into deep sleep cos I hear him stirring and stirring and finall cry ) I feel so bad for him trying hard to go back to sleep.. But i really don't know what to do to help his day. Although he now gets good naps his night now has turned around!
wish I had some magic cure.
Jackman, I hope I'm so happy your LO is doing better and now you can have more rest too :)
Husmom - hello! I see you are here too apart form BC :) your LO is really CUTE! gosh he got beautiful chubby cheeks!! :)
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J - I'm so sorry you're having probs with Lilly too, that's all you need! What do you think the problem is? Does she still nap during the day to catch up & give you a break?
You are definitely not a failure - you are doing all the right things to help your LO's sleep. I really do think that a lot of the issues at this age are developmental & (I know I've mentioned it before) but I do wonder about the fact that most of the Mum's with issues with LO's around this age have little boys (who are meant to be poorer sleepers than girls?!)
Carrie - I get what you mean about DH getting tired about us over analysing everything...I do the same (especially with sleep), DH is like 'Yeah, but he slept for 30 mins, what's the problem?', Grrrrr!
M & E still have coughs & colds (seems to be one after the other!! So sleep for both of them has been a bit off. Y'day was E's worst nap day for a long time....did 1hr in the AM & then only 40mins in the PM so even with an early BT he was OT BUT he slept nearly 12hrs....what's that about?!!
Set naps are still a bit hit & miss, don't seem to be working as well as they did with DD but still sticking with it for now as I need that predictability during the day!
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Hi Chui, great to see you here although sorry you are going through this too. I dont have any advice as we are still in this situation although last night was really good minus the 5am wake-up call (but technically not an early waking since he went to bed at 6:15pm) so hang in there. Jackman and Sianie's LO's are a bit older than mine so it is good to see they are having some good days/nights - it gives me hope.
Carrie