BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: huby on September 30, 2010, 10:29:24 am
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Hi there
I had, after almost a year of EW, resolved the EW thing....I realised I had a very low sleep needs baby who i was forcing to have the normal nap times needed for her age - and when this was cut down, she was sleeping through the night and waking at a reasonable 6 - 6.30 (it was anywhere between 4.30 -5am before that)
Anyway, for weeks now she was sleeping until 6.20 - 6.30 and going to bed anywhere between 7.30 and 8pm....
She's been teething and has a cold still and always wakes at 5am, but instead of going backt o sleep, she's wide awake and super tired by 11am latest.
Before that she was doing wake 6.30, nap at 12 for 1.5 or 2 hours then asleep through the night.
She's on the mend now, but the EW remains. I'm wondering as she's now waking at 5am, whether letting her sleep 2 hours or 2.5 hrs is too much for her.
She's low sleep needs and dropped happily to one nap by 11months.
Thanks...am shattered again!!
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giving you a little bump here. i am afraid i don't have much advice with low sleep needs lo's but i am sure someone will be along soon!
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anyone out there with any help at all?
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I'll be back :-)
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Hi wendy, great. pleased to hear it. She's started to get OT now, but point blank, not matter how much AP i do, take more than one nap a day. Sometimes hjer afternoon nap is 2.5 hrs, sometimes 2 lately. She's shattered by the time she takes it, and wakes up full of beans, but even with a 5am wake-up and a 7.30 bedtime - and sleeping through, she still wakes at 5am. Am sooo tired again, esp after i thought I'd got it sussed at loooong last
I dont want to get obsessed about times again -it got mevery depressed last time, just want a later wake-up. x
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Hey Hubby! Haven't seen you on here for a while!
I'm probably not much help but if it was my DS I would wait until the cold has well and truely gone. It takes DS a few days to get back into his normal routine/patterns after illness/teething... Just a thought.
To give you an idea DS has 1 nap 2-2 1/2 hours long and 11-12 hour nights. It does vary now he's older ( I have found anyway).
I wouldn't cut back just yet... Maybe ride it our a tad longer? You have worked so hard! I'd be concerned of DD becoming OT??? TBH I'm not sure just going from what my DS would/could do.
Hugs xxx
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Hello there -
Yes, I had to go and stay with family - got exhaustion and ultimately quite down with all the horrendous NW and EW (which were often 4.30am)
I think she is teething a wee bit still and also has reminants of a cold. Not sure if an earlier bedtime would help ...it's currently 7.30 and she goes to sleep easily for it - not fussing or fighting generally and sleeps through the night - but just wakes soooooo early now. So rustrating when we had weeks of her sleeping until 6.30am based on the same bedtime. Ugh
We have currently 2.5 hr naps, but only a 10 hr night...this morning she looked tired. So am I!
Thanks
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Hey Huby,
If you think DD is getting OT, I would go with an early BT, even though it seems counter-intuitive. I have found with my LO that if I put him down early when OT, he sleeps till the same time, even if it's a EW. You know what I mean? So if he's OT and I put him down at 7:30, he may wake at 5. But if I put him down at 6, he often sleeps till 5 - gaining your LO some extra sleep if nothing else. It doesn't solve the EW of course, but maybe if you catch her up on OT she'll start turning things around for you.
Hang in there!
Melinda
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melinda has given some great advice here in that an earlier bedtime actually might get you a later wake up - i know it is counter intuitive, but it really works.
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ok, will try for seven tonight as it's 5 already and she needs her tea, bath and milk and only just got home, but she does seem shattered today...
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Hi there Huby, the ladies have all pitched in with most of what I would say. Your LO has gotten OT, low sleep needs or not, it's not enough for a LO this age, especially one that is teething and is recovering from illness.
If you can skip the bath I would go with an earlier bedtime than 7...
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Ok, tried earlier bedtime and she fought and fought all the way - had to pat her to sleep in the end - 7.20pm. Grrr. Vicious cycle. I'm so tired of all of this, thought it was supposed to get easier when they turned one. Sigh.
She did a 2.5 hr np today and was still tired afterwards. How is she supposed to catch-up if she won;t go to sleep earlier?
I really don't want to ovbsess about times and routines too much ladies, as it caused me to get v depressed about it all recently, but just need some guidance...what do I do when she wakes at 5am...leave her? I will continue trying an earlier 7pm bedtime - if I reduce it too quickly, it will backfire I feel as her body clock is set at 7.30/8pm.
Also, should I go for an 11am nap, instead of 12pm and if so, what happens if she wakes after 1.5 hrs ...she'll be knackered all day long.
Thanks
Thanks
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Huby I feel your pain, my son was up at 4:52 this morning and he's 18+ mths old...so it gets easier but also harder, then easier, than harder...sleep is not linear, it's a like a very long winding road. We all want a later wake up but we can't get there without analyzing what's happening. But we can't have you getting too upset or obsessed with stuff if it makes you depressed so a few thoughts:
1) Can you AP her back to sleep at 5? Give her a drink, pat her, lie with her, anything?
2) What is the earliest bedtime you have tried? What about 6 or 6:30? If she's taking that long to go to sleep she's already in second wind. Let's not worry about her body clock just now. She's showing that her body clock can change given her new EW.
3) Any chance that if she does give a short nap at 11 that you can get a second nap just until she's caught up? When she was on 2 naps was it long AM or short AM?
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hi wendy,
thanks. I can't let myself go where i was a few months ago, I ended up leaving home for five months with xhaustion and then depression, but agree, need to look at what's happening.
So the facts are, she's OT and she's teething and on the ends of a cold.
I have tried AP her back to sleep, sometimes works, often not. She's a spirited little thing. Earliest bedtimes in past hav been 6.30 and she woke so so vry early, 3.30, 4.30 and didn't go back to sleep for hours...but that was a month ago now.
You know what, tomorrow I will watch her. I still know her signs when she;s tired - she buries her head into my shoulders when I hold her. I can try an ealrier nap and then earlier bedtme and see if that works...wdyt?
Wendy 4.52 is early, early. I really feel for you too. I hope you get some sleep and bless you for helping when you're so tired
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Hubby...hugs sweetie xxxx
If she has being doing well until teething/cold then you will be able to get her back there! Can you follow the same way in how you solved the last EW and NW? It seemed to have worked brilliantly?
You have been given some great advice and I hope you can resolve this ASAP.
From a Spirited perspective ~ I treat EW before 6am as NW. B has set Naptime at 12noon -regardless of A time (unless he is ill) B has a set BT of 7pm Regardless (unless he is ill).
I too went a tad nusto with the whole counting A times, watching every move. I found set times worked best for B and me! In saying that I have never actually got him up and out of bed at EW! So I though I would suggest some ideas?
Is her room pitch black? Because my thoughts are if I deal with a EW it's still dark and it's time to sleep, well that's what I tell B anyway. I do a mix of shush pat till he calms and do WIWO. If he stands in his cot I PD and tuck him in firmly so he can't stand up. These are some ideas to extend sleep (with out APOP). No APOP works in the world for B when he is in full health ~ B is ultra Spirited and headstrong! Only if he is really ill I pick him up, as he will settle in my arms and fall asleep, this is a very rare occasion BTW.
I hope this gives you some ideas to work with. Spirited Lo’s are really hard work, if you can borrow or purchase -Raising your spirited Child, it's a bible for mums of spirited LO's xxx
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Thanks Brock's mum.
Yes, you're right. I didn;t actually do anything to be honest...she just settled herself into a routine herself, I was never able to get her into one before that, no matter how much I tried.
She started waking at 6.23 exactly and sleeping between 7.30 and at the very latest 6am, and sleeping through. Then illness came and she's back to EW.
Last night, I put her to bed at 7.20 (tried in ernest for 7pm bedtime) but no way - and we had two NW (first in a few days now) and she was properly up - not grogy, but playing! She woke between 12.30am and 1.45am - in the end had to give her a bottle as she would not settle, not even being rocked in my arms which usually works, not even me leaving the room, nothing!
Yes, her room is pitch black and she wakes before it gets light. This morning she woke at 6.13 full of beans, it's now 7.46 and she's still full of beans and happy.
Opps, better go, madam is throwing straberries off the high chair at the cat - LOL!
So today I shall try her normal naptime within half an hour depending on her cues within that time period. I will try for a 7pm bedtime again but used to get an earlier wake-up based on this - can try 7.15 and see what happens.
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See how you go, that's all you can do! Try not to get back to obsessing around DDs routine, as you don’t want to put yourself under any unnecessary pressure :-*
We rack our brains out to try and resolve things don't we? I stick to Bs routine as much as possible and yes I get the occasional NW and EW for no apparent reason? Beats me! It could be OT,OS or teething or a newly learnt skill, a knock on the head while flipping in his sleep...Who knows? But I get along and do the best I can, no ones perfect and remember Spirited LO's are hard work.
I’m consistent with his settling routine though (maybe that’s my saving grace?) Who really knows?
It always seems to even out in the end (for us anyway)
Nothing lasts forever! Good and bad. xxx
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Hello there,
Well am shattered but much happier today. She had a super long NW of one hour plus, so gave in with the patting and then rocking and gave her milk...she fell straight asleep. She's a big girl for 13 months, and wonder if she was just plain hungry? She then slept until 6.13, which is good for her. She's always been an early riser.
She has cut some new teeth, the cold is clearing too, but shes sooooo full of energy - I mean like no baby I've ever witnessed, so that she's zonked by bedtime reglardless of what I do with her. She took a decent 12 - 2.15pm nap today, DH is putting her to bed for 7.15pm (we were out and about) and we will see what tonight and the morning brings. Hope its something that starts with a six, and not a four or five.
Ok, back to my meal planning (this so isnt me, but I'm finding gaining control in one area, and chilling a bit about the areas I can't do too much about is helping)
xx
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She then slept until 6.13, which is good for her.
Great she slept past the 6am mark!
but shes sooooo full of energy - I mean like no baby I've ever witnessed, so that she's zonked by bedtime reglardless of what I do with her
I get you on that one!
Ok, back to my meal planning (this so isnt me, but I'm finding gaining control in one area, and chilling a bit about the areas I can't do too much about is helping)
xx
Great idea! I also put my mind and energy (well what's left of it) lol in to other "things" too.
Dinner is also one of them! :P
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LOL, we had a 5.30am wake-up but my fault...we have a small heater in there as her room is sometimes chilly and it was registering high. So oepned the door and little miss light sleeper sprung awake...sigh. Haha. Well we have another tired day on our hands (me not her!)
It's ok, will try again tomorrow. x
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stuck to her normal routine despite the early wake-up. Do you think a 7.30 bedtime is too late - perhaps I should try for 7. Any earlier and we get severe EW that i never want to revisit. Anything with a four at the beggining is not for us.
Also, when she wakes early, what should I do. I can't really treat it as a NW as she never ever cries, just fidgets, shouts, plays and so on. But with NW, she more often than not cries or help or cries but very quickly puts herself back to sleep again.
It's a mystery isn't it.
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Hey hubby - Again Im just suggesting what I would do...
I would def go with the 7pm BT as she woke quite early, also re EW... Well I leave B as long as possible! he has his lovey toys and a comfy cot and blankies so I leave him when he's chatting, playing or fussing. Usually he'll get bored and fall back to sleep. If he stays awake I leave him until he cries, once he cries then I go in, PD tuck him in and tell him it's time to sleep, shush pat and leave - basically WIWO. Again this is before 6am anything after that I consider just a wake up YK? This is usually quick to repair as long as I stick to it. This is why I'm a fan of dark rooms! Even if it is light outside to my DS dark=sleep.
Is this what you mean?
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hi there, yes. I was just leaving her until six and she plays loudly and shouts for ages. She never goes back to sleep. Sigh. The room is very dark, but light comes in from the hallway as soon as I open her door - can't be helped
Ok, will carry on leaving her until 6am, and will put her to bed at 7pm and wait for the EW, suppose that's all i can do. Then we can hope the next day she's caught up and will do her usualy routine and try for later bedtime and wake-up. The very most she's ever slept in a night is 11hrs (until 6.30) so can't expect miracles.
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That's great she'll stay in her room until 6am though! I think you must be doing something right if she's happy to play on her own until you get her, also she's sleeping well during the day too! When teething strikes us Bs sleep def goes wonky even if he's not in that much pain at the time. I feel if you managed it last time then you'll get through this one too!
It's funny how this happened after illness YK? B is still waking up early from his last bout, he was waking around 6.45/50am and I used to get him up at 7am, since the molars and throat infection he's waking anywhere from 6.15-6.35 am.
His BT is pm give or take 10 mins but it's strange how there's been a shift YK?
I know it's nothing compared to your EW (hugs) but I think it's just strange is all? Maybe it's a waking habit from illness? Who knows! But it's not that much of a huge shift that I would try W2S.
What’s for dinner? lol
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Hi there
Yeah, I think so too, I really do. As she was waking 6.23 on the dot most mornings, even with a 8pm bedtime (because of a late nap) sometimes and was always fine with it, after teething and her cold, she's back to 5.40am now. Her 7pm bedtime, just resulted in the same wake-up time. I left her to play again until 6.10am - she shouted and played and danced until about then when she got grumpy and started to cry, so then got her. Very tired today - husband snored, cats fought, baby woke once as banged head on cot, haha.
Dinner ended up being home made chicken pie - never realised it was so easy to make!
How are you?
By the way, do you think i should stick to the same nap times still - 12pm until about 2pm is what she's doing right now.
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Re nap time, does she make it till 12 ok? Is she OT by 12?
So that would be almost 6 1/2 hours of A time... Typically that's a long A time, B does 5 1/2 A time then a 4 1/2 to 5 hour A time, I guess some would say the 4 1/2 is too little but B likes this routine. They are all so different though YK?
Is DD happy? If you're getting STTN and 1 good 2 hour nap and still EW the only thing I would assume it's habitual from the illness so that leaves W2S, ok I've never done it so I'm def not the one to offer advice about it. I have considered doing it with B but have never actually done it.
B is waking up at 6.15/6.25 and going to bed at 7pm give or take 10 mins, has a 2 1/4hr - 2 1/2 hr nap.
I'm thinking that he now wants more like 11 1/4 hour nights then his old 12 hour nights. Not sure why? Maybe his sleep needs have changed? I capped his naps a few times at 2 hours for a week but he was OT by 6pm. He started doing 12 hour nights again but was cranky during the day after his 2 hour nap even if I put him to bed earlier, so I'm letting him sleep the 2 1/2 hours now. I wonder when the next tweak is due? ::)
I'm ok thanks, just the usual tiredness...
Oh cats! Our cat meows right outside DS door anywhere from 3am to 6am! I think she knows I'll get up for her to either feed her or put her out so she doesn't wake DS.
Does DD eat your dinners? My DS eats what we eat now but will refuse it ever now and then :-\
You might have to PM me the chicken pie recipe! Sounds good ;)G
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Hey there Brock's mummy. Nice to hear from you. Its seems Brock is telling you he needs his 2.5 hrs if he's getting cranky.
Strange, I suppose they have a way of letting us know.
I'm baffled, but also, thinking with Lillia, she may just be a very low sleep needs baby. The reason being is that she was STTN with 11 hr nights (longest she's ever done) based on a day nap of 1.5 hrs.
Now she's sleeping longer during te day (yesterday was 2.5 hrs and is happier when she wakes and full of beans until bedtime - she went to bed (we got caught in traffic) at 8pm!! last night and woke this morning at 6am. Later than her 5.40 and 5.30ams, but still early and on 10 hrs sleep.
She always wakes up chirping and happy. She seems to do 12.5 hrs in 24 hrs which seems very little to me.
As for the nap time, yes 12 is a long way away. She has lunch at 11am and it takes her about half an hr, I take her up for wind-down at quarter to and by then she's asleep by 12. She does seem tired before that but I struggle as a) she won't and hasn't taken two naps since 11 months and b) shes OT in mornings but then makes it find after her nap to bedtime.
i'm concerned about putting her to bed early now as she's wake at 5.30am all the time. Sigh.
W2S wouldn't work on her as she wakes naturally - i hear her tossing and turning around 4.20amish and then goes back to sleep....
I would LOVE for my little one to wake at 6.15 - anything with a six at the start is sooo welcome.
I'm not sure if I'm battling horrendous OT masked as second wind energy or she's just had enough sleep by the time its 5.40am.
She's always been an early riser and 6.30 is the very very latest she's ever slept so I can't ask for miricles, but a wee bit longer after almost 6 months of EW would be welcome.
But still don't wanna battle all this if it's just the way she is, otherwise I'm banging my head against a brick wall making her do something she's just not going to.
Of course, will PM you the recipe. Yes, she eats everything we eat which is great. Only thing she's not a fan of is mince - e.g.home made beef burgers because of the texture.
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Hey how are things? I took B to the dr yesterday to get him checked out, because this sleep regression has me ???? I thought you'd be interested?
Have u had her GP check her out? I went this morning and his Dr gave him a full check over and ok'd him. I totally trust his Dr he's very good and does specialist in children and has 3 of his own, any way B has been seeing him since he was 2 mos old.
What the dr said was due to B being so big and passing his developmental stages easily he's more like an 18mo toddler. He has loads of energy (like an 18mo). The dr said at around 16,17,18,19 mos they can have disrupted sleep due to there newly found skills, they are completely aware they are their own person and if they wake and want to stay awake they will by having their own party in their cot...And also to be realistic on how much sleep B needed so he said an 11 hour night and one 2 hour day nap or two 1 hour day naps is appropriate for this age. so maybe L is fine with a 10 hour night and one 1.5 hour nap? YK?
Also this makes sense because we are having loads of tantrums here too! B is into everything, wants everything and is indeed acting like a "normal" toddler. I pill post a pic on FB re the rice incident yesterday ::) sighhhhh lol
So the advice I was given was basically wiwo if his fussing turns into a real cry, if he does cry wiwo. No talking no picking up just saying eg 'sleep time' then PD (if need be) a kiss then leave and wait if it calms good if not wiwo again. Now Bs dr is aware that I don't believe in CC or CIO so he modified it to suit BW. Which is the same as Tracys method anyway.
So this is completely normal sweetie, we just need to ride it out with wiwo as best as we can...the dr also reminded me that even though he's still a baby he really is a toddler now, reality check for me!!! We have toddlers now! A whole new and diffrent ball game now...
So DD being spirited like B...Well they are wayyyy to switched on for their own good.
I think we need to ride this out.
We had a good one last night 7-5.55am YAYYYYY!!! and a decent close to 2 hour day nap yesterday. I think what makes it easier for me is the fact B doesn't stand when he wakes also he doesn't cry either he just whinges and chats and coughs etc so i'm comfortable with leaving him.
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Hey there you. It's ironic you wrote that post as at the same time, my health visitor came around and did Lillia's one year checks and talked to me about her sleep.
She told me that 10.5 hrs a night is absolutely fine, and twoish hours of naps a day - but it varies a lot from child to child. She said Lillia was more like an 18 month toddler than 13 months, very alert - like Brock by the sounds of it, and just don't need as much sleep - or they wanna be up and at 'em, with a whole world of stuff to learn about.
I was told from day one she was alert and it's been a blessing, but also damn hard work - which i'm sure you are finding with brock too. It's chimes to true and your words are so close to the ones the HV said to me. I too have a large baby size wise (she's 98th percentile - HUGE) and more like a 18 mo - 2 year toddler anyway!
I do just leave her now and she doesn't cry either. She has a party - her and her in her cot, and plays and sometimes yells until I get her at 6.30. I'm also comfortable with leaving her. So let's soo, I think it's cool that are babies are so alike - I never seem to meet other mums with one quite like mine, but seems you also have a big, clever, alert, spirited one. Don't know about yours, but madam has started throwing slight temper tantrums when she can't figure stuff out....it's quite amusing. Yesterday, she playing with her babycom, trying to make the melodies come on and off - it got stuck on one repeat setting so she chucked it across the room. Quite amusing to watch really, but I smeel trouble brewing. lol.
xx
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I do just leave her now and she doesn't cry either. She has a party - her and her in her cot, and plays and sometimes yells until I get her at 6.30. I'm also comfortable with leaving her. So let's soo, I think it's cool that are babies are so alike - I never seem to meet other mums with one quite like mine, but seems you also have a big, clever, alert, spirited one. Don't know about yours, but madam has started throwing slight temper tantrums when she can't figure stuff out....it's quite amusing. Yesterday, she playing with her babycom, trying to make the melodies come on and off - it got stuck on one repeat setting so she chucked it across the room. Quite amusing to watch really, but I smeel trouble brewing. lol.
xx
Couldn't agree more! How funny that we were given the same info!!!! :o
Yes B is def throwing tantrums ATM. It's kinda sad in a way as the baby to toddler transition almost happened overnight! It's like he said one morning 'HEY this is great lets have a party and play in my cot everyone' or 'no doesn't really mean no see i can touch it'. lol It's verrrry challenging and is new world to me. I'm going to buy a song and sign cd and really make an effort to teach him sign. He's just so aware it's scary! Maybe if he could communicate more with me we would have less meltdowns?
His latest is opening every door or switching on the light switch when i am holding him and opening the tv cabinet. 'No' used to work to the tv cabinet, not any more! i have to say no and pull him away and say you can touch this. And the light switch he will cry if i don't let him turn the lights on and off, cute but makes when you're runnning late even later!
He is also too little to reach the door handle and keeps saying 'open baby' and if i say wait and i will open it he drops to the ground and cries. lol OH dear toddlers hey? ::)
Great to hear you're in better spirits xxxx
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meant to ask quickly, what do you do with the naps when you get a EW, i have tried two, but rarely get more than one from her ever. Do you do early early bedtime, or just try and stick to the same routine give or take half an hr? Thanks!
And yes, sounds like we have similar bubs...the light thing made me laugh - she does just the same all the time! And the TV cabinet too - and pressing buttons on the telly etc, I was told, because they want to see for themselves, its better just to distract than say no too much.
LOL. xx
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just try and stick to the same routine give or take half an hr? Thanks!
Exactly! But we do go out atleast once if not twice a day and if he's had a EW he will usually have a powernap in the car no more than 5-10 mins.
I'm too not trying to say 'no' too much, using distraction. Otherwise everything is 'no,no,no'.
I basically just say 'no touch baby, but you can touch this' and distract him. I've also "Brock proofed" our home as much as possible so he is free to explore with out me following him everywhere! The only thing that I can't Brock proof is the tv cabinet and a little side table that holds our drinks and tv remotes etc. So def say 'no' to both of these things and distract. When it will sink in? That's another question! lol
Do you have BWSAYP? There's a small boxed section where Tracy writes something like this from a toddlers point of view:
~ If i'm holding it, it's mine
~ If I want it, it's mine
~ If i'm playing with it, it's mine
etc etc ;D
LOL! So true! there's a few more, but i can't quite remember now. It's so true though! lol
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Great stuff, thanks. I think the EW are getting better this end. We had a few 6am, 6.30 and even a 6.40 this morning, but one NW, which I'm happy with. It never lasts, but it's ok. NIce to feel human sometimes at least, lol.
Yes, the distration thing is a good ploy. She's definiately throwing her toys around now and she plays with her sleeping bag when I'm trying to put it on her at night and gets in a ferocious strop if I try to stop her. Lol - the Brock proofing.
I don't have SWSAYP, but I loved the description - makes a lot of sense. We were at a playgroup today and she kept taking chairs from under other toddlers and pushing them off and then pushing the chair around the room while making car sounds. Hmmm.
It's hilarious and also challenging in a new way that's emerging more and more, day by day. I'm sooo thankful for wind-down routines though and establishing one, so at least she goes down for her naps really easily and bedtimes...whether she stays asleep long enough is another matter altogether.
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Hey! hows the EWs going? I found this thread:
It's nice to get some fellow support from other EW mums who like us have tried EVERYTHING!
Have a peek ;)
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=132585.msg2051738#msg2051738
WE had our first sleep in!!! 7am and I had to wake him! :o Then...Back to 5.30am (again) ::)
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Hey there my dear, you know what, i've just accepted, she wakes rested, doesn't seem tired, is happy and well, so I'm just guessing she needs less sleep than other babies. Its fine, I just have to go with it for now and get to bed early. It's more stressful for me, worrying about it. Am dreading when the clocks go back tho!!
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Hey! That's how the mums on the thread seem to feel too!I've accepted it aswell, strange to think when my Brock is a teenager I will need to drag him out of bed! Lol
I just thought if u want to have a chat to other mums of early risers atleast there is some support and chat there xxxx
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ahhh, bless you, you're so sweet of thinking of me.
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;D
Also if any other mums of EWs read this thread they may want to jump on to the EW thread!
Hows are the EWs anyway? We had our 2nd "sleep in" today...6.45am wakeup! Hoooray!
I still wake at 5am kinda waiting for the monitor lights to start flashing! lol
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ha ha - wow, 6.45 is brilliant. We're putting her t bed a wee bit later and she's waking a wee bit later too - 6.15am ish sometimes, which is good for us. But clocks change next week so back to normal. Still, am getting used to it and have been working all week this week too...am tired, but happy now I've accepted it, I just go with it and thank my lucky stars that we get a lie-in until 6, sometimes, and that she generally sleeps through. It's all good really. Hope you have another successful morning. x