BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Biz on February 23, 2011, 09:59:00 am
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Hi,
This is my first post so please excuse any errors!
My LO is 17 weeks old today, up until 15 weeks he was on the 3hr EASY and doing really well, sleeping from 7:30pm-7am with a DF between 10-11pm.
He is FF and has reflux so is on SMA staydown
However at 15/16weeks he dropped a bottle and I took this as a sign to switch to 4hrs in the day (as he wasn't taking all his bottles at 3hs before he dropped one). For the first week all was well, the routine worked and he still slept through the night. However this week has seen him wake almost hourly every night. I tried upping his bottles to 8oz but his tum can't take it and it just comes back up. For this reason cluster feeding is a no no for us too. Even at 7oz he doesn't take all of every single feed. He can take a full bottle in 5-10mins.
His routine has been:
7am E
7:15am A
9am S
10:30am A
11am E
11:15am A
1/1:30pm S
3pm E (this is a hard bottle to get down he often doesn't want it - see below)
3:15pm A
5/5:30pm S
6pm A
6:30pm A (Bath)
7pm E
7:30pm S
If he doesn't take the 3pm bottle I have been waiting and giving it at 4pm as I'm really worried he isn't getting enough in the day - of course the routine then changes to:
3pm attempt to E
4pm E
5pm S
6pm A
7pm E
I must stress that the naps in the day are often only 45min then I have to shussh pat to keep him down
My health visitor suspects he is teething and he is showing signs but even after calpol he still won't settle. I've also been advised to wean him soon as he can't take more milk in his tum with out being sick...
any advice would be very welcome, I'm really struggling!
Biz
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(((Hugs)))) This is a tough age.
Your A's are long for this age. The average A is 1 hour 45 minutes - 2 hours. If she is waking during naps, she could be OT. Also, the last A is a bit long on a 30 minute nap. Some of your NWs seem a bit OT related.
Also, there is a major growth spurt at this age and many moms have NFs.
You said you have a refluxer and this is also a time when reflux can flare. Are you sure this is under control? Frequent NWs indicate some sort of pain.
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Hi
Thank you so much for your reply, so what I need to do is get him down to sleep earlier and try and shussh pat when he starts to wake mid nap? He wakes 45min in most of the time in the day and its a real struggle to get him back down again...
I wasn't aware that reflux can flare up again at this age - he has been doing really well on it, so well in fact that SMA staydown has kept it under control with out the need for ranitidine. I wonder if its that and not teething thats causing the issues - I will book in to see the doctor - thank you I hadn't thought of that as I was told they grow out of it.
This morning he's gone back to a 3hrly routine, I wonder if the transition to 4hrly was just to quick for him - I guess I will see if he takes most of his bottles today and go from there... when he dropped a bottle last week he was going from 10am to 4pm with no food and it really worried me :( until a few weeks back he was a fantastic eater, taking all of his bottles but now it seems a struggle to get him to eat! is this a result of being OT?
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oh also last night I went to get him at bottle when he woke at one point, but by the time i had got it made it up and returned to the nursery he fell asleep for another hour. at 7am he only took 4 of the 7oz...
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I'm going through a similar thing right now with my 16 week old. As soon as I switched her to 4 hour schedule, her naps became shorter and she started waking multiple times at night! I'm so tired and I understand what you're feeling....
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I hear you. My 4 month old has been the same for the past 2 weeks. There is a HUGE developmental spurt for them at this age and it is really common to cause several wakings. Our worst night he woke EVERY 45 minutes from 730 to 6am.
I tried everything.
Calpol/Nurofen in case it was teething/other pain - no good
took him up to wind him/gave him gripe water - no good
gave him bottle in case hungry - no good he'd take an oz or two and then still be awake an hour later
gave him just water in bottle in case thirsty - no good
changed gro bags in case too hot/too cold - no good
started solids in case the milk wasn't satisfying him anymore - some improvement for a few days but then back to madness
changed his bedtime earlier/later - no good
changed his last nap to earlier/later - no good
Anyway on Monday I did 3 things
Spaced his bottles to 4 hrs as he wasn't taking full bottles - definte improvement in his feeds
Changed to size 3 teats in case he was getting bored sucking - same, great improvement in the amount he was drinking
gave him the baby rice at 630 before his bath rather than at lunch time (phn said this was fine as long as he had no adverse reaction to it in the first few days)
Monday night he went down at 745, woke at 830 and 9pm. I took a notion and put my tshirt in with him. He slept through till 6am! Last night he went down at 745 and didn't wake at all until 630! Now of course I thought I had it cracked. He went down grand tonight but woke at 1030 and 1130 so far so we'll see what happens now.
Anyway just thought I'd share what worked (maybe??) for me in case it helps. I have read everything on this in the past 2 weeks and the 4 month sleep regression seems to be one of the hardest stages. I'd never heard of it before. Also a lot of the advice seems to be there's little we can do about it. They need to just grow out of it. For some it takes a couple weeks, for others a couple months. I know not what I wanted to hear either!! I'm just hoping and praying the tshirt continues to work as I don't think I have the heart to do pupd which is all I have left to try :(
BTW my DS is a crap napper. 30 mins at a time is all no matter what I do, shush pat, wts etc. I never really cared because he was a good sleeper at night. I suppose my point is it may be absolutely nothing to do with your routine at this age as it seems a common problem regardless.
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Biz, reflux peaks between 4-6 months. So if you are noticing any type of discomfort, definitely look into it. I am actually wondering if the bottle refusal is partly due to discomfort.
Also, 4 months was a tough time for us with naps. 45 minute naps are developmental. It sounds like you are doing well with ssshing and trying to get your LO back to sleep.
About moving to a 4 hour routine. Most do it slowly. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=631 http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0
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Thanks for the ideas Biz!! How are things now? Things are a little better over here. She is still waking once/night. She is a big girl so I don't think she really needs that feed.... The most difficult we are dealing with right now is her bedtime feed. She can't seem to wait the 4 hours for that feed and often starts looking hungry one HOUR before she is supposed to get it!!
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thank you everyone for the advice!!
mmom I really wasn't aware that reflux peaked at this age - the Doctor told me he was likely to grow out of it by 6mths old!! I will watch for signs of reflux pain, I've been told by various HV's that he's teething (rosy cheeks, chewing etc)
In the end I switched back to a 3hrly routine - Ollie76 have you tried this? and then I will slowly transition to the 4hrly - I need to read up on the link mmom posted (thanks for that)... since I moved back he's taking more over the course of the day and -hurrah- sleep has returned! So far so good...
thank you Zukki for the advice - I think I will have to try some baby rice soon as there is no way he can take more formula - there just isn't enough time in the day!!!
as for the napping, if he doesn't want to do more that 45min he just won't... it doesn't matter what I do, for weeks and weeks I've tried shussh pat and have ended up sitting in his nursery with him for ages... however if I go for a nice long walk with him in the pushchair then we get a good nap - perhaps he is only thinking of me and my need to get back in to my pre-pregnancy clothing?!
thanks again everyone your help is very much appreciated!
Liz
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((HUGS)) Liz. I remember wanting to pull my hair out at this age, due to 45 minute naps. I always tried to extend and if it didn't happen, so be it. That said, I did try to focus on extending 1 nap every day. So I really stuck it out.
I think you should enjoy your walk. If it gets him to sleep, then great. But at least you get some fresh air and get to feel good for a short period.
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Biz - I was gonna switch back to a 3 hour schedule but changed my mind at the last minute. Kinda glad I stuck to the 4 hour schedule now...naps are finally where they should be. Last night was horrible though :( she was up from 4-7 on and off.....I think that's another story! Glad things are working out for you...
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thanks nmom, clearly my LO has my best interests at heart ;D
ah Ollie76, you poor thing, its the worse being up at night - my LO is starving, he took 37oz yesterday and so today we tried him on the baby rice which he loved... I didn't really want to start him this early but the doctor recommended it and said to stick to baby rice & milk for the first month and then move on to veg etc then - we shall see how we go!
Ollie76 I really hope you get some sleep soon!!
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Thanks Biz! Funny, I was thinking of starting solids too....my LO is a big girl!! Let me know how it goes.
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doctor recommended it and said to stick to baby rice & milk for the first month and then move on to veg etc then - we shall see how we go!
Is there a reason he wants you to start solids? There really isn't much nutrition in rice and it can be very binding for many LOs.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=36922.0
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yes mainly because of the reflux, he's on SMA staydown at the moment which makes him constipated, by giving him some baby rice it means that the bottle before the rice can be stage one which goes through his system alot more easily! I will monitor thou and make sure the rice doesn't just counteract this... although it looked thinner than the staydown so hopefully not!!
Ollie76, he loved it!! totally loved taking food off the spoon... he's not big (on the 25 percentile) but he is very hungry!!
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I have 2 refluxers myself. Thickening feeds is definitely helpful. But I found a medical grade thickener to be safer and easier on their digestive systems. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=175036.0
:)
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mmom thankyou! armed with your information I went back to my doc... yes the reflux is bad again so we are back on ranitidine. also LO has eczema on his forehead & it could be the milk so she is looking into wysoy + thickener for me.
I was completely unaware that reflux peaks at wks 18-24 so thank you so much for pointing it out - I feel terrible for not knowing this earlier but at least I know now
He's taken v well to the baby rice & doc is recommending moving on to veg then fruit because of the reflux & now eczema... although apparently apple makes eczema worse so I need to avoid that
what a minefield parenting is!! Still its worth it all in the end!! ;D :D
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OK, if there is a dairy intolerance, then soy is possible as well. There is often dairy in the rice, so you will want to be careful with that. If you are FF (I am sorry, I can't remember. :-[) I would look into a hypoallergenic formula vs. soy.
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yes I'm FF, the BF didn't work out sadly - too much throwing up and not enough production...
hopefully the doc is going to come back to me soon on the wysoy + thickener so when she does I will ask about a hypoallergenic formula... she was checking with a senior pediatrician... and I will check out whats in the rice... I know that when I get eczema I have to cut out diary for a few days in order to get rid of it but then I can start eating it again once its gone, same with my husband so the thinking is LO has inherited that from us...