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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: bug_blues70 on October 07, 2011, 15:58:24 pm
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For one reason or another since birth, DS has always had lots of NW. There have been different reasons for them at different times (food intolerances, low supply, etc) but now I think I have all those issues sorted out and just need to get him to stop waking. He's so used to eating at night that I think the first thing I need to do is transfer his calories to daytime (and stop feeding to sleep ::) )
I think the first step in my plan is to stop feeding to sleep for naps and hopefully bedtime. At night I try to resettle without feeding first, and I am also going to try to limit the amount he eats at night - he'd take a *full* feed 3-4 times per night if I let him but sometimes he will fall back to sleep if I just give him one side and then hold and pat him. I sometimes wonder if this just means he'll wake up sooner for more food though. I can't handle pu/pd right now b/c he has soooo many wakings (3 in a night is a GOOD night!) and DD is waking too. I am trying so hard to get him to take more solids during the day but he has lots of digestive issues and food intolerances so it's slow going. Any other ideas for getting rid of some of these NW before going full on pu/pd?
TIA for any ideas or suggestions!!!
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You may not want to hear this, but he's probably going to keep waking at night as long as you keep feeding. If you can cut the feeding to sleep for naps and nights, that will help - he'll probably take a better feed if he's not always looking to fall asleep when eating. More calories in the day will help, but I suspect he's gotten used to taking in more at night at this point. You could try the more gradual approach and just do one sided feeding at night if it's been less than 4 hrs, but at some point, you'll need to break that too.
We have the same issue and finally decided to start doing pu/pd. I kept telling myself - stick to 4 hr feeds in the day, don't feed to sleep for naps or bedtime, start solids then she'll just wean the night feeds on her own......plus she shares a room with dd1, so it was easier to grab her, feed her, pop her back in the crib than to do anything else. But then we went from 1-2 NWs to 4-6 NWs and I knew something had to change. We're on day 3 of pu/pd and the first night, she had 4 NWs, last night, only 2 (we did pu/pd for the first, fed at the 2nd as it had been 8 hrs since she last ate). My guideline is that she can go as long at night as she can in the day. So if Milo goes 4 hrs in the day, then any feeding you do before 4 hrs at night is most likely a prop.
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Ah Michelle. You always help me on my NW posts and you always have such good advice. You are absolutely right that he should be able to go as long at night as during the day and that I am a prop. I am trying to feed less at night and will gradually reduce more and more, but I just know I don't have the stamina to go cold turkey right now. I can't handle the screaming and if he wakes at 3 hrs, he WILL scream until I feed him at 4hrs. ::)
That and I feel like SUCH an idiot. He's been waking 2-3 hrs after going to bed every night for a while now and screaming. I know he's not hungry and he's still mostly asleep, but he will cry (scream) on my shoulder, then drift off, then have a little hiccup or tummy spasm and start screaming again. Last night it was high pitched and he was obviously in pain. I finally put two and two together last night and FINALLY realized it must be his reflux. His spitup and daytime mood has been so good lately and i have been so focused on food intolerance and supply that I have not even thought twice about reflux the past several weeks. And I even switched back from nexium to prevacid, which is probably why it's bothering him again. I feel like I'm at a fair on one of those hammer games where you hit the one gopher and another one pops up. How did I not realize that it could be reflux????
I am not thinking that it's 100% the cause of his NW - I know it's habit/prop issue too, but I do think maybe his reflux is part of it. I'm switching back to nexium though, so hopefully it will get better again. Thanks for your help - i think you are absolutely right that I just plain need to hold the line.
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oh reflux....yes...I HATE REFLUX!! No point in attempting anything like pu/pd if there's a reflux flare ;) I'd say if you want to start gradually, I'd do one sided feeding if it's less than 4 hrs. And once you get that established, then maybe cut back the time - so if he can finish a side in 10 min, then just do 5 min? He may not like that and you may find pu/pd will work then....I'll be honest, I don't like doing pu/pd....I hate it. But....in 3 nights, she's already doing better and we're all getting more sleep. When you're ready, we'll be here for you. We talked about doing it many times, but I wasn't ready, but then things kept getting worse and I thought, well.....I've got to do something. But don't do it until you're ready, and I'd get help too - dh and I switch off every 2 nights so somebody can at least get some sleep.
One thing too with pu/pd - if he wakes at 3 hrs, you don't just do pu/pd til 4 hrs and then feed him, you keep doing pu/pd til he goes to sleep. Then you feed him when he wakes. At his age, he can go back to sleep even if he's hungry. He just doesn't want to go back to sleep without you. It's hard. The first night, it took me 1.5 hrs (then she slept 5 hrs more, 8hrs since last feed), night 2, it took dh 1 hr 10 min (slept 3 hrs more 8 hrs since last feed); night 3, it took dh 30 min (slept 5.5 hrs more - 10.5 hrs since last feed). So it is working.
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Ugh. I know. Last night we had some success, but still fed twice. He was screaming at 1030 but I thought it might really be hungry b/c we were out in the evening and he didn't eat solids or anything for 4.5 hrs. He drained both sides and went back to sleep semi-awake. Then at 130 I didn't pick him up at all and kept the intervention to minimal. He fell back to sleep on his own and it only took about 20 min. Then at 330 he woke again and I tried not to feed him but I only lasted until 4 - i was too tired to go on. :-[ :-[ I fed on one side and he went right back to sleep and slept until 745.
What I don't understand is why he will go to sleep after 3 hrs of not eating for naps but not at night - we started pu/pd (mostly just pd) for naps and he's doing really good with it. After only 4 days he will fall asleep after only 10 minutes or so with no screaming. At night he'll just go on and on ::) :-\
You do give me hope though - it's encouraging to hear that you are already seeing some success. And after seeing how fast he adapted to naps, I think he will probably learn fast for night time too. I just need to DO it.
So question. If he's screaming in his crib but when I pick him up, he fights me, I'm supposed to put him down, right? But then he's screaming in his crib and I don't know what to do... I'm there for him, but he's still just screaming away like I'm letting him CIO. Am I supposed to just leave him there or pick him up again?
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He does it at night because he knows you'll feed him....they're smart our bubs!
With pu/pd at this age, you're not actually supposed to pu until they reach for you. So when we do it with Katie, because she sleeps on her tummy, we don't pu until she rolls over, then we pu, say our sleep phrase and pd. You don't hold til they're calm at this age either - you just pu, say your phrase and pd. Katie will scream like you're killing her when you pd, so we keep a hand on her and keep repeating our phrase every few seconds. When she starts to calm down, we stop talking and just keep a hand on her til she's all the way calm, then we step away and see what happens.
last night - no pu/pd at all. She went right out, slept from 7:15 - 2 am at which point I fed her, back out on her own (fed til 2:20, she was asleep by 2:30, only cried out 2x), slept til 7 am. So we started on Weds, and by Sun night we were down to no pu/pd and only 1 NW.
If you're seeing success at naptime, nighttime should work well too. I'd start on a weekend or a time when you don't have to be somewhere in the morning in case the night is bad. The 1st 3 nights were bad, but even then each night was better than the last. Good for you for settling once in the crib and only doing a onesided feeding another time too - that's a step in the right direction!!!
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phew! I just did pu/pd for his 1030 nw - which I think I was in denial that it was really a habitual waking ::) - and it only took 17 min!!! He doesn't stop screaming long enough to hear me say anything really, nor does he open his eyes long enough to see me hold out my hands to him. I decided to pick him up when his cry sounds really desperate and not just mad or frustrated. It also helps that he went to bed late tonight so it had only been 2 hrs since his last feed and I knew he couldn't possibly be *that* hungry. I also was tempted to tell myself it was reflux again, but he's on the new meds now and I elevated his crib before bed.
Yay for you having so much success with Katie!! That's so awesome for you and good for me to hear too! I've been really surprised at how fast Milo settling lately. I guess I was just traumatized by those nights where he screamed for hours nonstop. Turns out my supply was low at that time, which it is definitely not now. It makes a huge difference I guess!!!
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You are amazing!!!! Well done :) :) :) And good for you at adapting it for Milo. The fact that he's got his eyes closed tells me that he's trying to settle himself, so I think you'll see good success with pu/pd. What folks told me on the board was to pick a time and say "I'm not feeding before x" and then do pu/pd for any/all NWs prior to that. We originally set 4 hrs, but she did so great so quickly that now we do more like 6 hrs. When she wakes we make the call to settle/feed. If we settle, then we feed at the next waking. If we feed, then we settle for any subsequent wakings. So we're just doing 1 NF.
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that sounds like a good plan. After I wrote my post last night, he woke 20 min after settling and then again 10 min after that settle ::) That'll teach me to speak too soon and jinx things!! And I ended up feeding him at 1230 and 4 even though it hadn't been 4 hrs b/c DD was awake and screaming her head off for me when I left her to feed him. Since it had been 3.5 hrs, I just went ahead and fed him. Then he was up for the day at 6 with only a 10 hr night -\ I don't mind 6am wake ups, but if he's going wake at 6, I want my evening time too and a 12 hr night!!
Tonight my goal is to settle at 1030, feed at 2ish, and resettle until 7am wake up. I just hope he doesn't wake DD in the wee hours. That's the worst is when they're both screaming - they keep each other at it!
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We actually have to move abby into our room as she shares with Katie and once katie starts screaming, so does Abby. So I slept in her bed last night and she slept with dh in our room. Is your dh around to help? That's the only way we can do it with the 2 of them.
We had some regression last night, so we're both pretty tired today, but we press on.....
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we had milo in our room for 7 months and decided we just couldn't take it anymore. Yes, DH is there to help, but both of them just want mommy ::) ::) I suppose she could sleep with DH but she kicks and flops around so much she really needs to be in a crib. I've thought about having him sleep on her floor though. :D
I ended up doing 3 hrs of pu/pd last night and spent an hour with DD and ended up doing WI/WO with her. Other than me getting no sleep, I feel like we did make some progress with Milo. I fed at 11 b/c he'd fall all the way asleep and then wake up as soon as I got comfy in bed (twice) and then did another 2 hrs of pu/pd with no feed at 1 and then fed one side at 4 and instead of waking at 6 like I thought he would, he slept until our goal of 7! Yay!!
I hope you get some rest today and the regression doesn't last long!!
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super glad you saw some progress last night!!!!
pu/pd and wi/wo are sooooooo hard, I would definitely enlist dh for help - he takes one bub, you take the other. Especially as you try to wean NFs with Milo - he might settle better for dh because he does not have the boob ;) Or keep dh on standby to take Ellen if/when she wakes, and yep, having him sleep on the floor if that helps.
I don't like the separate sleeping with dh, but I tell myself that it's only temporary and once Katie is independently sleeping at night, we'll be glad we did it. Of course, she's so OT today from last night that we're getting short naps too :(
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Aw! Boo on the short naps!! Dh is hopeless for helping with Milo. One time I asked him to just stay in there with him while he was screaming and I needed 10 min to put E to bed. He couldn't even stay in there the whole time. And Ellen will just scream 'mommy' over and over. He goes in there to be with her when I have to be with Milo, but if Milo is sleeping, it's me in there with her. He's also a complete grump the next day if he doesn't get enough sleep which just makes me mad at him for being grumpy b/c I never get a full night's sleep and I don't grump all day. Usually :D
I hope tonight goes better for both of us!!
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{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}} sorry about the lack of help from dh :( I hear you on the grump issue though!!!!!
fx for tonight for both of us!!!
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Well, last night was better by a whole hour at the 1am NF but that's not saying it went good b/c I was still in there for 1hr45m. And then we did another 1/2 hr at 6am. So we're down to a full NF at 10ish and one side at 4ish and about 2.5 hrs of pu/pd a night ::) And we're still doing wi/wo with DD at 5ish though it only takes a diaper change and 3-4 walk outs. I don't know why she's waking at that time every morning ???
How are you doing with the regression? Is it over?
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but you are definitely making progress - only 1 full NF - that's amazing!!! it helps to look back to where you were at the start, as day to day progress often seems miniscule.
We've gotten past the regression, I think as nights have been much better. But she's been needing some pu/pd for naps now, and that's unusual. She's been waking screaming today, so I'm wondering if it's that stupid tooth again. I just wish that thing would bust through.
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oh yeah, that three hour stint the other night *could* have been tooth for Milo too as I saw a hole for the first time the next day. Here's hoping they pop thru for both our babies!!
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any idea how long this is supposed to take? we've been at it for a week and he's still up for at least 30 min, more like an hour every night at 1 to 2. I've been doing pu/pd for this NW only to try to get rid of them one at a time. I increased atimes yesterday b/c I thought maybe it was UT, but that didn't seem to help... ???
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the FAQs say to commit 2 solid weeks to doing it. You're making great progress though!