BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: **Clare** on October 21, 2011, 09:43:36 am
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I guess you'd think by number 4 I'd have got this nailed ::) ::)
This has got to stop!! Amelie is almost 9 months old and is delightful!! She feeds and naps well, goes to bed like a dream but continues to wake during the night numerous times. I will admit to feeding her twice at night, it was once at around 3 and she was sleeping from 7 until 3 so I could cope with that, shes now waking at 1 and 4/5 to be fed and shouting out a few times inbetween that. When I say shouting its the kind of shout that has me suddenly sitting bolt up right, this girl is LOUD :o Its not a fun way to be woken up.
Ive let it go for abit as we've had crawling and a cold and shes currently teething but I really cant go on anymore, when the boys came into my room at 6.30 ths morning burst into tears! I could not believe it was morning already :'( I know I need to stop the feeding but she is in our bedroom (No other options right now) and she wakes me up with every little movement and if shes awake she will not be quiet, Im so scared of her waking the boys up that its been easier just to feed her. Also, sometimes she is actually hungry, I can hear her tummy filling up :(
I guess a start would be to drop at least one feed ??? She goes to bed at 7, self soothes and sleeps soundly until her first wake up.
Any idea?? :-\ :-\
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Just bumping this up in the hope I may get some ideas before I go to bed tonight. She has had a huge tea tonight so didn't want her bottle so Ive just given her a DF, she went to sleep at 7.
Thanks in advance xx
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Personally i would just feed at the 1am NW then do pupd for the next then when she's stopped that second waking and is taking more in the day I'd use pupd for the other night feed as well. If she is genuinely hungry at the NWs it is only because she is used to feeding at those times. Especially for that 4am feed when she's only gone 3hrs from her last NF. She goes longer that that in the day i assume and she's awake and burning energy then. Your other option if you don't want to go in so hard and fast is to gradually reduce the amount she takes at night. This is harder if you're BFing of course. If it were me I'd do pupd as it'll take weeks the gradual route and i prefer quicker results. Can DH or anyone else help you with the pupd or tending to the boys if they wake?
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Thanks Ali. Im not sure PU/PD would work as she doesnt actually get up, she lays in her cot and wiggles around and moans. She doesnt even really cry but it keeps me awake and she only ever stops when I feed her, if I leave her I think she'd start to get cross with herself and cry.
Last night I did a DF and she slept until 3 and I fed her again :-\ It was a better night than most but still its not great. I guess its a start but in theory shes still having 2 night feeds!! I really have no problem doing a DF if she'd just sleep through the night but Im not sure if its disturbing her or not, if I dont do it she wakes between 12 and 1. I hate that as I havent been asleep that long :(
Im waffling again, Im so tired :(
Hubby could see to the boys but I just cant risk them waking as they may not settle back that easily and I cant have them tired for school the next day, I guess I could do it on a weekend. If it doesnt take too long that could work.
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Following along as we are in the same boat albeit Oliver just cries on and off rather than shouts ... plan to get back on track after our holiday next week .... The worst thing is that when he was tiny he slept 7am til 4 or 5am!!!
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Hi Clare,
If you let her get cross and start crying and only then going to her, would that wake up the boys? If not, I'd really try to leave her. I know that it wakes you up, but just lye there and wait till she cries. She might surprise you. I'd think just out of curiosity to see what happens, you could always go and feed her in the end.
Is there a way to send the boys with DH for a camping trip (don't know how old they are and what's the weather like) so you could focus on Amelie? Maybe not camping, but to visit somebody for the weekend?
You know from my thread that we are right now in the same situation and I read the PU/PD chapter yesterday and what Tracey said is that if your baby wakes up hungry during the night then she is not getting enough food during the day. What we did (but have no other kiddos) is one night no matter what not giving the bottle. And it worked. We still have DF, but after that nada.
I would work on that first, getting more food into her during the day and no bottle at night. How is her solids intake? For us it DOES make a difference how the day went regarding solids.
I feel for you, I know this tiredness.
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As pp says you'd need to wait for her to cry to do pupd. The worst would probably be over after 2 nights so yes start on a Friday night when your boys don't need to be at school the next day. Even better if DH can take them somewhere. If not you might be surprised what they'll sleep through. Definitely get more food in the day when you can. But she'll take more the next day the first time you skip a night feed i would think even if you can't.
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Clare, how are things going?
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I'm also going through the exact same thing with 8.5mth dd, also bf. I gave up the df a long time ago as she still woke like clockwork every 4hrs (still does). Looking back, perhaps o should have carried on the df and tried to kick the night feeds but she always seems genuinely hungry.
Friends keep telling me to do CIO who have said it worked but I just don't believe in it.
Ima, did you do pupd for that one night?
I think dd is starting to teethe (no teeth yet!) as she is off food and only wants puree or cold fruit puree and is constantly rubbing her gums. Im wondering whether it is a good idea to try now or wait it out...
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I did PD because he is standing already and there is no PU at that stage. I tell you, that makes PU/PD so much easier! I don't know how can people do CIO in this age when there is a much nicer :) solution.
In the past we did once PU/PD and DH and I swapped every 10min because it was so disturbing, but now I can do it 30min by myself no problem. If your DD stands already I highly recommend it. I expected 1.5-2h crying and got 25min when the second half was him lying already and mantra crying.
This combined with a much darker room and white noise (which he only started having a couple of weeks before sleep training) were the solution for us. I hope things will get better for you.
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Please help. This is ridiculous. The past two nights she has been waking up THREE times. At 11.30, 2.30 and 5.30. I fed her at 11.30 thinking that may see her through but when she woke up at 2.30 I refused to feed her and she was screaing her hungry cry :'( I tried to pacify her with her dummy, she woke DH up and one of the boys. I did feed her coz she was quite obviously hungry, I could hear her tummy filling up as I fed her :-\ :-\ She did a similar thing at 5.30. I am beyond tired today.
Is this a growth spurt?! She wasnt sleeping before all this but this is worse!!
Im going to try feeding her up today but I tried that yesterday. She actually took more milk last night than she did in the day yesterday!!!!
Please help me, Im exhausted :( :(
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{{{{hugs hun}}}}
I think hun you are going to have to bite the bullet and stop the night feeds. If she's taking more milk in the night than the day then she probably is hungry at the minute and you need to shift it. Feeding her up in the day will only help so much and you'll only see the real difference when you stop giving her milk at night. It can take a few days for the hunger to shift. I think you'll need to get DH on board to and take it night about and the other one of sleep elsewhere so you can get some sleep to have energy for the next day and to do the following night.
You may want to start with one NF only and PU/PD for any other wakings and then in a few days cut that too.
Is she is FF and taking solids then she really shouldn't need a NF at this stage.
Did you say she has a dummy? PU/PD can't be used with a dummy so best plan may be to just offer her her dummy and then ssh-pat to sleep.
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I think Shiv is right that you need to bite the bullet. With the feeds, how much is she taking at each bottle and are you still doing a DF? If you are doing the DF still I would leave that for the moment and work on only giving 1 bottle during the night and settle her anyway you can without feeding before a certain time. You can offer a full feed the first night then work on reducing the bottle by 1oz every 3 nights and then when the bottle gets down to only 1 or 2oz just offer water. I think this works better than watering the bottles as you are reducing the volume she is getting over night.
When that one bottle has gone you will need to stop the DF, you can do it in the same way, or follow Tracy's plan by reducing the oz and bringing it forward every 3 nights.
{{HUGS}} though, it's hard work.
Laura
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Argh!! Say it isnt so :'( :'( It goes against motherly instinct to not feed a baby that is clearly hungry :'( :'( Im not sure I can do it :'( :'(
Im going to have to think on this one. I completely see what you are saying though. Last night I did try but there was no way she was going to go back to sleep, I even tried rocking her and putting her in with us. She was proper screaming!!! Im not sure Ive heard her that loud before (If she woke DH up she MUST have been loud!!
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Thanks Laura, posted at the same time.
That may work. She is only taking about 3/4 oz at a time, she's only ever had 6oz in her bottles and she wont take more than 4/5oz in the day, its quite hard to fill her up!
I do a DF sometimes, I did last night but I went to bed at 9.30 so had to do it then and she only took 2 oz and then woke at 11.30!! Im not sure if the DF helps or disturbs her or what.
Its such a shame, she goes to bed like a dream, naps like a dream. She will always be asleep by 7 at bedtime and sleeps soundly until that first night waking which used to be 3 ish, its just got ridiculous the last few days, she was also very poorly so guess she maybe making up for that too. Who knows!!
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A gentler way to do it to pick a time you aren't going to feed before. So if she goes to bed at 7pm then any wakings before 1am you HAVE to resettle whatever way you can. I am also going to say that whatever method you choose don't replace one prop for another. Resettle in her cot. Yes rock if you need to but make sure she goes back in her cot. I really wouldn't take her into bed with you. That is an even harder prop to break than what you've got going on at night now.
So after one then do one NF. Then every few days add a half hour to that time.
I'll be honest with you Clare and say while she may be hungry she is not starving. She isn't. I think the screaming and crying is to do with the fact that you are not feeding her and that is how she is used to resettling to sleep. I think it is more likley that than hunger.
Argh!! Say it isnt so It goes against motherly instinct to not feed a baby that is clearly hungry Im not sure I can do it
Another way to look at it though is that she needs good quality sleep for her growth and development so you are doing this for the greater good. You are not starving her. Simply helping her shift her hunger to the day when she should be eating so she can get proper sleep at night.
And there will be crying and screaming until she works out that a bottle isn't appearing at every NW. But better at 9 months than in a few months time when it will be even more engrained and even harder to break. But remember she is crying because you are changing the way she goes back to sleep not because she is starving. And if you do one NF initially then you can be sure its not even hunger.
HTH x
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Thanks Shiv. She is def hungry, I could tell by the way she was drinking and I could hear her tummy filling up :( But no, shes not starving! She eats really well in the day too.
Wish I was more awake to read this properly and make a plan, just cant think straight today :-\ I think Ill try cutting down the ounces, my thoughts are she will then wake before the 3 hour mark ::) but we shall see! Anything has to be worth a try.
I get you on the prop thing too, she hates coming into our bed, shes never done it before it was just sheer desperation last night. If shes not hungry she has no problem self settling. Cant really do pu/pd as she is far too big or even pd as she doesnt get up! I can try patting or rocking but as I said, if shes not hungry she will self settle.
I also wonder if she is OT, especially after being s poorly, her naps are abit wonky at the mo. May go and read up on naps as may need to tweak them a little too.
Thank you :-*
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She could well be making up a few calories if she has been ill - that won't be helping! We weaned my DD's one nightfeed (never took a DF) by reducing the bottles and then just offering water. She did have a few days of needing a nightfeed a couple of months later after a week of throwing up but she stopped that herself.
Like Shiv said, the crying and protesting is becuase you are doing things differently, but if you stick to a plan it will pass. It's also better to stick to it and have the crying for a couple of nights than give in and have to go through it again.
I do think at this age that the DF messes with their sleep more than helps it. It is also more learned hunger than true hunger at this age, yes she is hungry because that's what happens when she wakes but if you can get through it and she's eating and drinking enough in the day she doesn't need calories at night.
Laura
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Clare, you know that a couple of weeks ago I was where you are now and it IS possible to change it.
Over the time I tried reducing oz when Alon was younger and now I did it cold turkey. Both things worked for us very well (It was our fault he started eating again after he didn't for a while) and you just need to find the one that would feel right for you now.
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Another awful night, 3 night wakings. Same times as the previous 2 nights, seriously I think she can tell the time!!! What's that all about?! I went to bed at 11 and decided not to DF her and see if that helped, she woke within minutes and went crazy. DH came up and said it was like she was possessed, we were both pretty freaked out tbh. She sounded really gruff to and I wondered if her throat was sore but it can't be that bad if she's eating and sleeping in-between the NW's.
Tried to pacify her for half an hour them fed her. I think the only want I can do this is to cut back the oz's. The last few nights she's taken a max of 4 oz each time so I'm going to drop it to 3 for a few days. Is that right?
Every night I go to bed thinking she may just surprise me but it never happens!
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Just remind yourself that one day she WILL - teenagers never get out their beds so then (and definitely much sooner, of course!) you will be struggling to get her OUT of bed (that's what I used to remind myself when Murray didn't sleep well!!)
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The last few nights she's taken a max of 4 oz each time so I'm going to drop it to 3 for a few days. Is that right?
Yep.
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Just remind yourself that one day she WILL - teenagers never get out their beds so then (and definitely much sooner, of course!) you will be struggling to get her OUT of bed (that's what I used to remind myself when Murray didn't sleep well!!)
Yes Lucy, so true! As my Mum always says, its only temporary!
Last night was as tiring as the previous nights, she was happy to take the 3oz at each waking! When I made the bottle up I looked at it and thought, shes not going to be happy with this! It was such a small amount! She still had 3 feeds... 11.30, 2.30 and 5.15, seriously its like having a newborn. Its ridicuolous.
So how many more nights shall I do before I drop down to 2oz? Is this really going to work?? I have faith in baby whisperer, it has never let me down before but I have to say I have my doubts on this one.
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REALLY REALLY REALLY Clare, reducing bottles has worked for us and I have a very big baby and he eats A LOT! It's not like you are cutting her NF, she will slowly, day by day, increase the amount she is taking during the day and won't be as hungry at night.
I'd go couple more nights till reducing 1oz more.
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Still here... Amelie is poorly, Ive been poorly, its not going great!
We are down to one night need (Touch wood) and a DF. She really isnt fussed about the DF but Im worried if I dont give it to her she will go back to two night feeds. Would it be safe to try it do you think? I, trying to be consistent so always offered it but shes only taking an ounce or so.
The night feed is down to two, we did that a couple of nights then when I was poorly DH did the NF and did 3 ::) She's done another two nights on 2 ounces since then, what next? An ounce? Or nothing?
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I would stop the DF if she is only taking an oz but keep the NF at 2oz for a few more nights until she gets used to no DF. Then you can drop it to 1oz for 3 nights then I would offer water rather than milk. If she does wake more than once you need to stick to the 1 NF and resettle her before this time and after it.
Good luck and well done on the progress so far!
Laura
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Thanks Laura, it is progress, slow but still progress! Im happy as its been so easy and caused no upset so far. Thanks for the quick advice, off to bed soon so Ill try what you said! :-*
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Great progress Clare!! Good luck with the rest of it xx
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Hopefully you may even find she is better without the DF. After about 7/8 months it does disturb sleep more than help which is why Tracy tells us to wean it around then. Maybe it's causing a rise in her blood sugar levels which then drops and needs topping up again rather than being stable from last feed to wake up - you never know do you!
Laura
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Amelie is now 10 months old yet we are still in the same place. She has had illness after illness after illness and still isnt right. She's been left with a horrible cough that just wont shift at the moment.
She did get better for about 5 days so I started again on 3 oz, now down to 2 oz but still getting two night wakings where she will not settle without the feed. The other NW's I can re settle her quite easily. I can still hear her little tummy filling up with the 2 oz and not sure how Im going to give her just 1 oz ???
Last night was night 3 of 2 oz's so guess I should bite the bullet and drop an ounce tonight :-\
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Amelie is now 10 months old yet we are still in the same place. She has had illness after illness after illness and still isnt right. She's been left with a horrible cough that just wont shift at the moment.
This sounds like Oliver too (although he isn't quite 10 months). This time of year is terrible. I think Murray was the same but not long after he did stop wakening in the night for milk, etc and then sstn (and still does). Are you offering water when she is coughing, rather than milk? I did that last night and it worked for Oliver (up til now I have been feeding him) so hoping to stop the night feeds and try to pat him instead (patting the soles of his feet!! - DH did that last night after I had given him some water (O, not DH!!) and it worked). O then took a good feed this morning.
I am now going to stop the 3pm feed and give solids instead (maybe offering milk after the snack) as I feel that he needs more substance, as well as upping the amount of food he gets (to replace the milk calories from all the night feeds).
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Thanks Lucy. I havent offered water, the cough isnt the thing waking her or I may have thought to do that. Its just she has a cough and a snotty nose and shes just generally not that well, she cough's at night but this doesnt usually wake her, she sometimes cries out but settles back down. She is just waking as she always does... I bet this doesnt even make sense, sooo tired I cant think straight!!
Could I give water at this point instead of 1 ounce of formula?! Not sure what would be best! :-*
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I know the feeling :( I think Oliver would waken anyway but because he is so snotty it's hard to breathe so I have been feeding him to unblock his nose. I also think that if they have a sore throat (you never can tell), esp with the heating on which can be drying, offering water rather than just pupd/patting etc reassures me that they are not getting dehydrated.
You can give water instead of formula - if you know she doesn't need the calories, etc then water is good. We used to do it with Murray who quickly learnt that it wasn't worth wakening for (he would often not waken the following night, and when I was consistent with offering water, or his dummy only, he stopped wakening as much).
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Oh I really need to toughen up. I just feel so bad not feeding her, she's baby led weaned and will not be fed so I do worry about what she is actually eating, there seems to be alot on the floor. If I was so sure she'd had enough calories in the day Id find it soooo much easier to not feed.
I'm going to try 2 oz again tonight then will decide what to do tomorrow night.
The other thing is the DF... Do I, don't I?!
She's awake.... Grrrr....
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My midwife used to say to me that if she woke in the night and someone brought her some nice food she would eat it ;) If you are not confident she is eating enough in the day then I would give her some formula. Have you tried offering some mashed food etc as well as baby-led weaning to ensure she is eating enough?
Just remind yourself that she WILL sstn at some point (all teenagers refuse to get OUT of bed, but sure it will happen way before then ;) ::) ) - that's what I remind myself
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He he!! This is true ;D
She won't take food off a spoon unless she does it herself which doesn't really work yet!! She will NOT let us feed her, she just shakes her head and won't open her mouth! We are working on getting her to spoon feed herself but she's not really developmentally ready. We give her mashed food in a bowl and she will eat it with her hands. So gross but guess that may be an option!!
Last night was just a no go. She was so poorly, I've never seen so much snot :-X Think we will leave it now until she's better but would really appreciate the support when the time comes!
Thanks Lucy :-*
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yes - when they are ill the rule book goes out the window :( I also find accepting that they WILL waken makes it less stressful for some reason ;)