BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: mamatea4 on November 28, 2011, 05:56:41 am
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PLEASE HELP!
my dd2 is 3 1/2 weeks old, and for last 6 days she refuses to sleep from 8pm until 7am - no exaggeration! she is currently pacifying herself on my boob at 1am. if i take her off, she screams within 5 min. she refuses a paci & i've tried 3 kinds multiple times.
during the day she's on a 3 hour easy with her day starting at 7 am - she naps well. i don't let her go past a 2 hour nap though. and I make sure she gets adequate light during the day to reset her clock. by the 8 pm feed though she won't go back to sleep, swaddled or not- i don't know how she can physically keep from sleeping, but if I take her off my boob she goes into convulsions.
The week before in the evenings she wanted to be fed every 2 hours, the week before that (her first week home) she nursed for 2 night feeds. so we are going downhill apparently. :(
I can't nap with her during the day because I have a 22 month old that needs my attention. BTW - I started my DD1 on easy about 6 weeks of age & it went well so I am familiar with the routine but nothing is making sense with night wakings for DD2. I've made sure it's not gas too, even giving her gripe water.
I can't keep this up, please help soon!
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Do you think your LO is in any discomfort during the night? does she have any symptoms of reflux or colic/sore tummy?
Does your LO sleep in your room? Bassinet/co sleep?
Hugs Hun, it's hard when they're so little and not sleeping x
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Ιnfants at this age very often confuse night and day.During the day you should get her to sleep with noise,a radio playing perhaps -and open windows.During the night,you whisper ,you have a dim light at the room and don't change wet nappies in order to get her to resettle her clock as you said.And be sure that if you want to continue breastfeeding you should't give her anything else than your breast before lactation is established,ie before approx 40 days have passed.Thiw includes water,pacies and bottles!Marathon breastfeedings are normal for infants.They breastfeed to relax themselves, feel secure and close to mummy and increse your milk production.I know it's veeery difficult but try to be patient.DIfferent sleep patterns might be exhausting for parents but very normal for infants.Sleeping a whole night is somehow a human invention but not normal for animals whose descendents are we humans as well!!My little one is 8 months old and still wakes a lot and stays up for hours at nights.Every child is different,hope yours eventually sleeps-just helpe her find her pace and be patient!
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Thanks for the replies. She doesn't seem to be in any discomfort. She just can't settle at night without suckling. She's not really nursing. If I have a letdown she sometimes comes off the breast & then fusses to go back on a few minutes later.
I have her sleep with a noise machine during the day & go about my normal activities so that she's used to the noise (how can she not hear a hyper 22 month old running around)? :) At night she co-sleeps with us, and I don't change her unless she has soiled her diaper.
I just want to know if this can be normal behavior that I have to ride out - and if so how long does it typically take to even out - or is there something I can do to help alleviate the situation? I can't be a good wife or mother to DD1 with 2 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period for weeks on end! My first daughter slept well at night but didn't sleep well during the day - so this is new territory for me.
Oh, and it's not comfortable, even with a good latch, to have a baby on your boob for hours at a time!
Thanks for the advice!
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I hear you Hun, those breasts get sore quick in the early days!
Personally, I think she has a strong need to suck, and I would try a paci. I ll see if I can get some more eyes on here for you x
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It's my instinct to go with a strong need to suck too. And if she'd take a paci I'd be happy to see how that works. As I mentioned, unfortunately I can't get her to take one.
I waited until 3 weeks to introduce a paci & I've tried 3 kinds with no luck! She'll suck a couple times & spit it out, if she'll even take it at all. Any pointers there would be appreciated. I try to make sure it's going in touching the roof of her mouth, am I missing something?
And too, if you are able to get any other eyes out there to give some advice not just about the paci but what else might be causing such extreme night wakings - it'd be a big help!
BTW - she was born at 8.1 & has gained approx 1 oz/day since then, so I don't believe hunger is an issue. Also, all that extra milk in the overnight, since it's the foremilk, seems to cause some slight discomfort with gas, but once that's passed, she'll be alert & calm when I detach her from the breast - for about 5 min. - then as I said she'll start wailing & twisting around until I get her back on the breast.
Thanks so much for the help! I'm utterly exhausted & at my wits end!
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It does sound like she is using you for comfort rather than a feed hun. Does she spit up a lot or make any unusual noises during/after a feed? Or show any other signs of reflux at all?
With the paci have you tried gently holding it in her mouth at first until she gets used to it being in there and sucks on it? Obviously not if she is getting upset, but she may just need a little help being so little still to hold it in yk?
Can you also post your day in EAS format so we can take a look there?
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{{{{hugs}}}}
My DDs were both very sucky babies. I persevered with the paci with both. It took my DD2 a few days of consistent use to get used to the paci and initally just kept spitting it out. I just kept trying and she did get used to it. It is a different type of sucking they use so it can take them a while to get used to it and I found holding it in her mouth lightly helped her get the hang of it otherwise she moved her tongue like she was feeding and it popped out.
There is a GS at 3 weeks so I wonder did you hit that and now she is used to feeding to sleep a bit in the night as she needs to suck? I would think if you practice the paci through the day hopefully you will be able to use it at night too.
are you cluster feeding in the evenings? At 3 weeks it wouldn't be unusual for a BF bub to be feeding every 3 hours at night.
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Here is my schedule:
E - 7am, 10 am, 1pm, 4pm, 6pm (cluster feed) 8pm (cluster feed) 10 or 11pm (feed lying in bed) - ideally a 2am & 5am feed - but it's been non-stop since 8pm as mentioned
taking about 20-25 min to eat (15 on one side/5-10 on other)
A - change diaper, some singing & talking - do 4s about 10 min before the hour after her sleep cues (turning away & yawning) so A lasts about 50 min before starting wind down
S - 8-10am, 11-1pm, 2-4pm, 5:15-6pm - rest of evening unpredictable
after her 6pm feed I haven't started a bedtime routine yet since this is when I have to feed DD1 dinner, so DD2 is in sling, or swing if she doesn't go back to sleep - sometimes she'll nod off in sling or swing for an hour
8pm after DD1 in bed, feed DD2 & attempt to put her to bed - but she won't settle & stays on breast at least until 1am then nods off for maybe 45 min before wants a true feed at 2am then it's the same thing until 5 am feed, after that she may sleep until 7am or may not
She doesn't seem uncomfortable except between 5-7pm, her cues indicate gas. This doesn't seem to be the problem overnight. Sometimes she will spit up a little after a daytime feed, but this is not a consistent thing & I haven't noticed her doing that overnight.
I have tried holding the paci gently in her mouth when she'll let me, but it may be that this will take a few days. A lactation consultant informed me that my nipples are too generous for her mouth right now & that as she gets bigger, feedings will improve (this was during week 1 when I had cracked nipples - time has solved that problem) so maybe the paci is too big for her mouth?
The feeding to sleep at night after a 3 wk GS is interesting to consider especially since she co-sleeps, but my question here would be why doesn't she actually go to sleep? Why does she stay awake for the entire evening? And why doesn't this pattern continue during the day?
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Huge hugs - I'm awake at 2am feeding my 1 week old and imagine feel your pain!!
Often we'll never know the why, just stumble through the how with some help!! I have heard people say they have newborns who wont sleep all day but of course thats not a problem as such. So maybe that's the same for your LO but she's got night and day b2f.
I have to say my hunch is the same as pps - we used a dummy from day one with DD after such a good experience with DS who was born preemie size - the SCBU asked if they could give him one - makes me wonder if you could look online and see if you can get preemie dummies and try that?
Also as much as I agree with pps in terms of diff entitling night and day to help them switch, my MW pointed out that to start with they can't sleep at night as its TOO quiet and dark - maybe try dosing off with the light on or some WN at night, just for a bit to see if it helps - you can always reduce over time if it nudges you in the right direction.
hTH
Xx
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Actually good point H :) I forgot about the first few weeks, but we actually slept with our light on very low- a dimmed bedside lamp all night for the first few weeks, it was better for me BF to so I could see to get that latch right etc without having to leave the room or put a light on/off etc.
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Thanks for the idea about a preemie paci - I will look into that. I tried gently & patiently putting the paci in her mouth yesterday, it worked a little better. Once the night came though, forget it - she got frustrated that it was too hard to suck & wanted the breast instead.
As far as noise & light at night: I have WN at night & a night light, but maybe the light is not bright enough?
Last night was a little better. She gave me 30 min breaks during the night. I've been feeding her at night lying down in hopes that if I can't sleep, at least my body can rest a little. Do you think this is contributing to the problem?
I'm really confused as to why the suckling isn't soothing her to sleep. As soon as I detach her or as soon as the paci falls out she will cry; whereas in the daytime, she sleeps without a paci (although it is taking longer to shh/pat her to sleep in the day now), - why won't she soothe at night?
I'm afraid that even if I get a paci to work consisently, she'll cry every time it falls out without truly sleeping, that's what happened yesterday in the early evening before DH & I went to bed - so even if the need to suck is the root of the problem - why won't that soothe her to sleep as the BW book said it should? Per the book, Tracy said that the baby would suck until asleep & if it fell out after that it wouldn't matter, right?
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I still believe that a paci for an 3 1/2 week old infant is a mistake, but that's your chice anyway.I can understand you are frustrated because I've been through this myself.You might want to take a look at this site
http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleep.html
http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/comfortnursing.html
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/concerns/pacifier.html
all advice is from a lactation consultant, you might find some answers !!In the meantime hold on!! :)
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Thanks sylkat for your concerns about paci use. My baby is 4 weeks tomorrow & my milk supply is good, her weight gain is awesome & since I don't plan on using the paci except at night & then only sparingly, I feel good about it. You see, the problem again is not multiple night time feeds - I'd be ok with that. I'd even be ok with nursing to sleep since it's the overnight time. The problem is that DD2 is doing neither. The nursing is not to eat nor is it putting her to sleep. She stays on me literally for hours, and I mean hours, at a time, without a break & cries within 5 min if I take her off - every time. I can't continue to do that because I wind up neglecting DD1, DH, myself, and honestly being so sleep deprived has become a safety issue around here. :)
BTW - I love kellymom, i've used that site alot with my first daughter. There is excellent information there regarding BF. Thanks again.
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Oh hunnie this must be so frustrating for you ATM. It really does sound like if you could get your DD to take the paci then that would help her no end, and stop her from using you as a paci instead. Great idea from H to look into a preemie paci, also reminded me that when we first used a dummy for my DD we had to try lots of different teats. DD wouldn't take the orthodontic shaped ones at that age but only the cherry type round ones. Just a thought.
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Sweetie, there is no right or wrong with regards to pacifiers. There is strong evidence to suggest that they Actually help with SIDs, refluxers and very sucky babies that otherwise over feed. They are both a blessing and a curse. Choosing to use one is your decision and either way we will all support you :-*
Generally packs become a prop around 4 months, this is a good time to wean if you feel you want to do so.
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Oops pacis not packs ::)
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(((hugs))) sweetie, my Ds was totally day/night reversed and I have older kids too, so it wasn't even like you could take advantage of all the daytime sleep!! Anyway, we persevered with keeping him in the light and around us during the day and using dark and white noise at night (he just wanted to be held all night long). It did even out around 6 weeks - getting a BT routine established really helped us too - just to signify the difference between day and night sleep -- that took a few weeks of work, but was totally worth it. And fwiw, I've heard that the day/night thing does sort itself out usually around the 6 week mark.
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Huge hugs from me too - those first few weeks are tough!
I didn't intervene with the day/night reversal (first baby and I blame the sleep deprivation for my poor thought process)... it corrected itself at 7 weeks.
Do you wake bubs up during the day?
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Thanks so much for these last 3 posts . . . it reassured me enough that I'm in tears right now (of gratitude) - or is that just hormones :)
Anyway, yes, I wake DD2 every couple hours during the day & keep the blinds open so she gets natural sunlight (at least until about 5pm when it's starting to get dark here, then I turn on a bedside lamp).
On a positive note, she didn't stay on the breast all night for the last couple. She still wouldn't settle longer than 20 min at a time in the early eve but after the 11pm feed she slept till 1:30 (then stayed on me for an hour - still not great), fed again at 3:30 & 6:30/7am. She was restless from 3:30 on but at least she wasn't wailing & only suckled a few times at 15 min or so during the morning stretch. So maybe it's starting to improve.
So I will persevere with what I'm doing in the day, continue to try a paci at night, try to get a bedtime routine going & hope that she starts sleeping at night. Can you tell me though how I can KEEP her to sleep since the breast and/or paci isn't actually soothing her into SLEEP at night (just calming her for a period of time) - or is that just part of what will work itself out in the next few weeks? Is co-sleeping actually keeping her up maybe? Should I swaddle her at night too, not just during the day?
Thanks.
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For sure swaddle at night - entirely possible that she is startling herself awake. That reflex doesn't fade until closer to 3 months ;)
I doubt that the co-sleeping is keeping her awake - most babies sleep better close to mom :)
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I'm going to start swaddling too - we used one for DS and with E, during the day when she's trying to get to sleep and her little arms are flailing and knocking the dummy out, I hold them gently for her and she'll calm within minutes. Def a problem at night too....... need to get up the loft and dig out our old ones and see if they're reusable - I remember the velcro was starting to go.......