BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: alioubba on December 29, 2011, 01:30:12 am
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Hi Everyone,
I'm new to the forum but have been following babywhisperer since the birth of my 1st child in 2008 - it worked great back then but now I am struggling.
My 6 month old daughter is not the greatest sleeper. She used to sleep quite well, waking once per night from about 2-4 months, but since 4 months is all over the place. When she is sleeping 'well' she will wake twice per night at around 1am and 4am. When she is not sleeping well, she wakes every 2 hours (3 hours if I'm lucky). It changes from week to week and the past 2 weeks have been the worst. I don't know if it's accidental parenting, she's truly hungry or problems with daytime activity times, naps.
She goes to sleep unassisted most times (unless she falls asleep in the car
She cannot handle much awake time during the day and I have only recently been able to keep her up for 2 hours.
She has always been a short napper and I'm lucky if I get 50 minutes, usually I get 40 minutes or if she is overtired - 30 minutes. I have tried to extend her naps with no luck... unfortunately I don't have much time to dedicate to extending naps as I have a very active 2 year old running around the house. Here is what a typical day looks like.
630am - wake (I don't bf her just yet because she isn't hungry)
8am - bf
830am - nap
915am - wake, play
11am - bf
1130am - nap
1220pm - awake, play
2pm - bf
230pm - nap (usually short)
3pm - awake
4pm - bf (not hungry, but trying to get more feedings in during daylight hours)
*sometimes she will take a 4th very short nap between 4pm and 5pm if she is exhausted
6pm - bath
615pm - bf, she drinks alot at this time
630pm - asleep, goes to sleep unassisted
on an okay night she will wake at 10pm, 1230am, 230am, 5am and then up for the day at 630am. When she wakes I give her a pat and put on her aquarium or seahorse.
She doesn't really cry, just fusses (kind of sounds like a bark!) I let her fuss it out and sometimes she goes back to sleep, but mostly she doesn't. She's not interested in SHHH, PAT and I don't think PUPD is appropriate because she is not crying. I will leave her fussing for 30 minutes or so and if she doesn't go to sleep, I usually cave in and feed her and she'll go right back to sleep.
I should also mention she is really small for her age. She is in the 10 percentile and probably weighs about 13.5 pounds right now
I have a 2 year old and sometimes she has to nap on the go during the day, if this is the case we will usually end up with 4 naps instead of 3 naps. I know she should be staying awake longer at this point but I find she gets fussy at about 1h20-30 minute awake time so I don't know what to do. She also gets super fussy around dinnertime (5pm), even if she just woke up. We started solids last week but she is not too excited about it and it seems to have made things worse so I think I am going to leave them out for a few days then try again.
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Hi there and welcome to BW. :) I do tend to think that your NW are to do with your routine but also probably because you are feeding when she fusses. I know it is hard but if she isn't crying I really would try to leave her to it. If she really needed you or was hungry she would let you know with a proper cry.
At this age my DD was a terrible short napper too and then she just grew out of it around 6.5-7 months and started taking longer naps. The short naps will be causing the need for a short A time too, so it is a vicious circle. Have you tried adding just 10 mins on to her first A time to see if she can handle this and then take a longer nap? Also do you think your DD would take more milk in the day if she was on a 3.5 or 4 hr EASY? Maybe she isn't hungry enough to eat every 3 hrs? What do you think?
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I will try adding some time onto her morning awake time to get a longer nap and then avoid later shorter A times. Just last week she was doing only 1h 45 min during the day and I've stretched it to 2 hours. She did 2 hours again this morning and slept 40 minutes, so undertired I guess? She was yawning at the time, but maybe I could have kept her up longer. I just find sometimes when I stretch it, I end up with a 30 minute nap...which is even worse. I will have to work on it.
As for eating, Sometimes she is fine to go more than 3 hours and sometimes she seems to be hungry at 2.5 hours and closer to 3 hours. I worry that by stretching it longer, she'll wake more at night to eat...but I am guessing this is not the case? I also worry that because she is so small she won't be eating enough. Last night was pretty good and I think it's from holding back the boob, she woke up at 830pm, went back to sleep after about 10 minutes and then woke up at 930pm and was up for 1 hour on and off fussing. After that she didn't wake until 2am and then 6am.
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Yes usually if you are getting 30 min OT naps then 40 mins would be UT. Just wondering if you have tried a change of scenery or activity when she starts fussing and yawning. These can also be signs of boredom, so that might be enough to get an extra 10 mins of A time. I would try adding 10 or 15 mins and stick at that for 3 days and then add another 10 mins for 3days and so on.
As for the feeding every 4 hrs, you may find that because your DD is more hungry that she actually takes more. My DD was bottle fed and when we changed from 3 to 4 hr, although we dropped a bottle, she actually ended up taking more milk at each feed so her daily amount went up. Let me know how you get on adding A times.
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Last night was fantastic as she went to sleep at 630pm and didn't wake up until 230am, I feed her but then she woke up at 530am and wouldn't go back to sleep. So now I am struggling with what time she should have her 1st nap after an early waking? It's been about 1h25 minutes and she is falling asleep in her bouncy chair.
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Great news on the good night, not so good on the EW. All you can do really is keep her A time as normal and maybe fit in an extra CN to see you through to a reasonable BT hour. Was that night after extending A times yesterday? Was anything different to cause the good night?
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I think she had a good night because I have been really strict with myself and not caving and feeding her in the middle of the night. For now I have given myself a rule that I won't feed her more than twice. She did have extended A times during the day, but nothing too significant. She got really tired around 430pm (even though she already had 3 naps) and fell alseep in her bouncy chair from around 430-5pm and then went to bed at 630pm. So I was wondering if her early waking might have been due to the last cat nap?
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Yes sounds like it could well have been. A CN that late could effect night sleep. How are things going now?
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Not going well :( it's the worst right now - she's been up every 2 hours after 11pm the last two nights. Last night I was so exhausted and annoyed that I ending up bf'ing her back to sleep. She's also been very grumpy for the past 4-5 days. Our day looked like this yesterday
Woke at 745am (she slept in because she was up all night)
E - 9am
A
S - 930am-1015am (tried to keep her up later but she was super tired)
E- tried giving her solids at 11am, not very interested. bf after solids and 12pm ( was so grumpy, trying to figure out what would help!)
A
S - 1230p-115p
E - 130pm
A
S - 330pm - 430pm (fell asleep in car seat, then finished the rest of her nap in car seat, in room)
E - 430pm
A
S - 645pm
NW 1130pm...waited until 12am to BF, 215am....waited until 245am to bf her, 5am - bf right away so tired, up for the day at 620am
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Aww hugs for the bad time at the minute. Any teething going on ATM? Does DD have a dummy/paci at all? Has she ever slept for longer than 50 mins during the day?
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She could be teething, she already has two teeth...but I can't see anything coming in.
She doesn't have a paci... I so wish she would take one. Her sister did was an excellent sleeper.
She sometimes sleeps for more than 50 minutes, but it's rare. Usually it happens if she is all snug in her car seat, falls asleep in the car, then I bring her up to her room and leave her in the car seat. Today of all days was extremely rare so it will be interesting to see how tonight goes.
Wake 620am
E - 730am
A
S - 820-920am (1 hour!)
E - 1015am
A
S - 1140am-115pm (amazing! started in the car seat after her dr's appt and finished in her bedroom. It was after her vaccine though so that might have something to do with it.)
E - 130pm
A
S - 4-430pm
E - 430pm
A - super fussy - vaccine?
E-630pm
S- 645pm
Her weight wasn't so great at the dr's office today (13 pounds 7 oz) and they want me to come back in 1 month, so I might just go back to feeding her whenever she wakes up at night :( (within reason of course!)
Her usual bedtime is 630 or 645pm. Do you think a nap after 4pm is too close to bedtime?
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just an update after my 'perfect' nap day. She still woke 3 times over night - 1045pm, 145am and 415am...after I bf her at 415am she was still awake (not that hungry) but she went into her crib without a fuss and was awake for 5-10 minutes before she fell back asleep. She was up for the day at 620am. If I could just get her down to 2 nightwakings I would be happy.
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Your DD doesn't suffer from reflux or any allergies does she? What did the docs recommend about her weight? Did they suggest to feed her more? Have you ever tried a DF at maybe 10.30? I know it is late to start this (if you haven't already) but it would be a way to get some extra calories into your DD.
Today is a bit tricky to look at because of her jabs. Interesting that she had such a good sleep after a longer than normal A time though. Could be because the jabs made her sleepy though.
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She doesn't have reflux. I used to avoid dairy in the early months because I thought it might be bothering her...so I actually started avoiding it again yesterday so I'll give that some time and see if it helps. She used to be a much better sleeper but that was before she was as aware.
I did try a dream feed but I find that it causes her to wake more.
The doctor suggest I keep pushing solids so I am trying hard to get her to eat. She isn't too interested but I got her to eat 1 tbsp of rice cereal today. They didn't suggest anything in regards to breastfeeding. Just to come back in 1 month to track her weight and make sure she doesn't fall off too much.
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Did the NW start around about the time of solid introduction or before? My DD was awful with rice cereal, it really upset her digestion and we got terrible NW with it due to pain. Am going to try and get some more 'feeding' eyes on this for you hun.
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We just started solids about 2 weeks ago and it is definitely worse since then...but it's bad since she was 4 months. I try to offer them earlier in the day so they don't upset her sleep. She doesn't seem upset in the night, she smiles when I come in...fusses loudly if I leave. She does fart quite a bit though, so maybe the gas wakes her up? She is only eating about 1 tbsp of rice cereal right now. Also, I give her probiotics.
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I might drop the rice cereal in favor of some veggies - sweet potatoes, carrots, etc or fruit (pears) or even some chicken. They're actually much easier for Los to digest. If you're worried about calories, you could try bfing her along with the solids to see if it helps - or bm in a cup if she'll take it. There are a few moms on here who have had tenor with solids and have offered feeds before naps. Its not exactly EASY, but if she needs the calories it's worth a shot.
Many BF babies needs night feeds - my ds is 8 months and up until a month or so ago we had the df and a nf most nights (still do on occasion) so it wouldn't be all that unusual for her to be eating twice. There is also a 6 month growth spurt which may have explained your patch of extreme grumpiness a few days back.
I'd look at her feeding behaviors - if she's eating well, your feeds are probably fine for now but if she's just getting a few sucks and going back to sleep, she probably doesn't need the feed. The awake and not crying during the day reminds me of not enough a time during the day so you're doing well to extend it. I find ours sometimes jumps when I don't expect it. :)
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Totally agree with Erin and especially dropping the rice for some fruits or veggies. It does sound like your DD is getting some discomfort, maybe from gas, and that is waking her. Rice can be hard for some LO's to digest until they are older.
Also if she is having happy NW and you leave her to it, does she eventually cry? I would try to wait until she actually cries before you go to her and see if she can start to settle herself. Again agree with Erin here that happy NW are usually UT so adding a little bit of extra A in the day could be the way to go. Hard with the short naps though I know. Maybe just keep trying for the first A time and see if you can get that first nap longer.
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Yes, I have heard that about rice cereal, she doesn't seem constipated (yet) but she is gassy (not in pain just farts alot) She isn't too excited about food and I was giving rice cereal because it was the only consistent thing she likes! We started with sweet potato, then tried pears (she spit them up), butternut squash, then banana (which I think constipated her a bit). I skipped the rice cereal today and did the sweet potato again, so we'll see how that goes. I am trying to give it earlier in the day in hopes it won't disrupt her sleep. I am nervous to try anything new as it might make things worse!
So as far as the nightwaking goes. She doesn't cry, just fusses very loudly. She kinds of sounds like a dark barking or a very loud bird! It's hard to ignore which is why I usually go in. So I don't know if that counts as a happy nightwaking? When I go in, she smiles and is happy to see me, but when I leave the loud fussing starts again. Last night she woke at 12am, 2am and 5am. I feed her at 12am and when she woke at 2am I tried to get her back to sleep without eating...but after 40 minutes of her being very loud. I gave up and fed her, I think she took in a half decent amount.
Her A times have increased dramatically in the past week but it doesn't seem to be helping. I think I recall seeing somewhere that the first A time of the day should be the shortest? I really struggle with how long the first A time should be as she starts showing tired signs really early. Today I kept her up 2 hours and 15 minutes and then ended up with a 30 minute nap, Yesterday she was up 2 hours 5 minutes and had a 40 minute nap. I guess it can all depend on the previous nights sleep. So frustrating! Thanks for your help ladies - I really appreciate it.
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Don't worry about the solids. It's perfectly ok for her to not take much at this stage. My dd2 refused them completely until somewhere around 8 months and she's actually a pretty decent eater. It's frustrating, but really until age 1 they should get most of their calories from breast milk/formula so it's ok if she's just taking a few spoonfuls. Sometimes I think these babies know what's best for their little tummies! Bananas can be tough, it's best to only give them at this stage of the game if they are very ripe.
If she's increasing her A times, you might be in the midst of some changes that are throwing her off. Unless you're worried about her waking someone else up, I might let her fuss and only go in if she's actually crying. I've got two others sleeping in the next room from my ds, so I worry about letting him be noisy for too long. She might be trying to settle herself back to sleep. If she cries, definitely go in and help her out, but otherwise see how she does.
Babies are different, some babies like short A times first thing in the morning, some babies like long A times. If she's up during the night, her first A time might be shorter because she's tired. My babies have always done their longest A time before bed, but that's not true for every baby!