BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: lj1982 on February 03, 2012, 12:10:58 pm
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Hi Mums :)
I really need some help. I have created a monster here ::) My 8 month old DS is having soo many NWings. He's waking 4-8 times a night & its taking anwhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours to settle. And I haven't helped matters any by either feeding or rocking him back to sleep.
A bit of backround. He's only ever slept through the night once. He's always woken at least once for feed...usually twice. Thats been fine up until a few weeks ago. He's still swaddled (but with one arm out) & has a dummy. I think if either one of these is a prop its the swaddle. It feels like I re-swaddle a 100 times a night. He started waking more frequently a few weeks so I was either feeding or rocking him back to sleep. Both, I think have become a prop. Now when he wakes he either wants a feed (he's BF) or for me to rock him to sleep...if im not holding him he's crying.
Its been a bit hard to keep him on a routine with all the NWings but this is it roughly.
6:30 BF
7:30 Solids
9:00 S - 1.5 TO 2 hours
10:30/11:00 BF
11:30/12:00 Solids
1:30 S 1.5 TO 2 hours
3:00 BF
5:30 Solids
6:00 Bath, BF
6:30 Bed
He self settles for naps & BT but just can't seem to re-settle if he waked at night. He's just getting over a cold to which hasn't helped either. Its 10:10pm here & he's just woken for a second time.
Am i missing something in his routine?? Do you think i should be doing PU/PD? Any advice would great...im at a loss & so tired :-\
Thanks :)
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I should also mention that he's usually sitting up when i go in there. He kind of crawls lol & he's just started pulling himself up on things. Hopefully someone can help...he didn't even 6 hours sleep the night before last.
Thanks again.
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Do you think he is teething? They often wake a lot when teething as it can cause some discomfort.
I does sound like there is some developmental stuff going on too.
His A times are short between naps, I think you need to push these out gently to help the nights. I know it's hard with all the NW. :-*
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Thanks for the reply.
We had another bad night last night but we were staying at relatives place. It got so bad we had to come home in the middle of the night!!
He could be teething. He only has his 2 bottom teeth that he got about a month ago. I think some SA might be playing a bit of a part to...he's always been a bit of a clingy baby with me.
Do you think i should have his A time around 3 hours or maybe a bit longer?
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I would start by gong to 3 hrs, then you can push a bit longer if you need to.
Hugs on the rough night, teething does mess with sleep a lot and the top middle teeth really rn some LOs.
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Hi, have you tried not swaddling at all? I'm just wandering if any of the wakings could be because he's fighting to get out? I remember with my son his nights got better once we ditched the swaddle (the first night was a bit rough but no worse than we were used to! then he settled right down)
Perhaps try a nap without it first? Just a thought... x
Hope you get a better night soon. My 8.5mth DD is having rough nights too, still waiting for those first teeth, so I can sympathise on the lack of sleep :-*
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Thanks heaps for the advice.
I've had a feeling for a while that the swaddle might need to go. I tried a couple of months ago & he woke up every 40 minutes all night...i've been to scared to try again lol. But your right it can't be any worse than what we've been having.
He's been down for nearly 3 hours so fingers crossed he has a half decent sleep...the poor little guy must be so tired. He only got about 8 hours broken sleep last night :(
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Fingers crossed for a good night for you xx Did you try extending his A times?
I know what you mean about being scared of loosing the swaddle, I was dreading it with DD as it was such a big sleep cue for her, it took her a few nights but then she discovered tummy sleeping and started having lovely nights (until recently ::))
I'd give it a go, you can always go back to the swaddle it if its that horrendous ;) maybe also start using PD at the same time (if he's pulling up personally I wouldn't bother with the PU part but obviously your choice), tackle it all at the same time, unfortunately it may mean a rough few nights but hopefully you'll come out the other side a lot better off :) xx
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I would also give it a go Hun, are you planning on moving your LO to a sleep sack/ sleeping bag once the swaddle goes? You could try just one arm out, then both out before moving to a sleeping bag..or go cold turkey ;)
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Well, yesterday he did 3 hour A times which worked really well. He had a 1.5hr & a 2hr sleep. During the night he woke at 11pm & I gave him a bottle, 12:30 but he settled straight away, 2:30 when i BF him then back down til 7am. It doesn't sound great I know but it is an improvement on what we've had!
He's had one arm out of the swaddle for a while but now i've got both arms out which I can't believe he's doing good with lol. Today has been a bit crazy with swimming lessons etc so his A times have been a bit all over the place. He did wake 40 minutes after i put him down but I think that was over tired.
If I just do the PD part, would I do it when he's just sitting up? He's not often standing when i go in but he's always sitting. Do I put him back down even if he's not crying?
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Great progress hun, you may get some regression too but thats okay :P
Im going to get a PU/PD mod to pop over to help you out on PD okay :)
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Great that you've seen some improvement, fingers crossed it will continue xxx
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Thanks :) We didn't have a great night last night but we've had a bit of a virus here so he wasn't feeling well.
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Hi lovely. ;D
OK, so I think you need to give sh-pat a go first. You need to decide when to feed and not feed before. If feed time rolls around then you need to get LO back to sleep first before offering the feed otherwise all the crying has been for nothing. Hope that nakes some sense. ;)
I also think you need to ditch the swaddle, my DD was swaddled until 9 months so I feel your pain but sometimes it does become more of a hindrenace than a help.
Can he replug the paci by himself?
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I have split lawells posts off to a new thread so she can also get specific help for her NWs
If you want to help/view the thread is http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=225817.msg2433653#msg2433653
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Hi Emma, thanks so much for your advise.
I think its time for the swaddle to go to. He woke 6 times last night. I've got him in his sleeping bag for this afternoon sleep & went down really well with it.
Yeah he can put the dummy back in so i've got a couple in his cot with him. I'll give shh/pat a go for tonight. I'm hoping theirs a light at the end of the tunnel lol
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OK, so if he can replug the paci himself then it *should* make the process alots easier but there are no certainties in this baby business! Also the fact that he already had one arm out should hoprefully make for an easier transition.
The main thing is consistancy. Do not cave. ;) LO is at an age where they are becomoing more aware of what they want and how to get it. ;) Not in a manipulative way though, just bubs being bubs. ::)
You may find at this age he doesn't like sh-pat but it always worth a go, if he doesn't then we'll take it from there. Keep us posted. :-*
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Ok, last night was too bad. I gave him a bottle at his 1st NW & he went straight back down. He woke an hour later so I just layed him back down & he held my hand. He didn't even take 10 minutes to go back sleep with no crying once I went in the room. He woke again at 1am & I fed him...i probly shouldn't have but I was half asleep...i must've been on auto pilot lol. I heard him at 3am but he wasn't crying, just yelling a little & whinging so I didn't go in. He must've settled himself & didn't wake until 6:30 :) Still a lot of NW I know but he was settling a lot easier.
He went down for his naps & bedtime tonight really easy too. Hopeing for an even better night tonight :)
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I think you need to decide how many NF (if any) you are going to do, what time your are going to do them at and stick to it otherwise it gets confusing! ;)
That aside it doesn't see too bad to be honest, especially that he resettled himself at the 3am WU. Yay!! ;D
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Hi again,
So things were improving but seem to be going down hill again :( He's still waking a few times a night (although only feeding once now). He was falling asleep independtly at BT but now he's taking 30-60 minutes of crying & waking after an hour & a half or so later. I'm thinking it might be an A time issue. At the moment he's doing a 3 hour A time. He's one week off 9 months...what do you think?
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Hiya, I think the A time for this kind of age is 3-4hrs, so you may possible want to try a little tweak, (but I'm having similar issues so don't take my word for it LOL). Its that awkward age of the A times extending and not having enough hours in the day to fit everything in ::) Will be following with interest xx
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I agree with Carrie, He may need a bit of an A increase. Try 15mins for that first A to start with and see how you go.
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Thanks.
Today was all over the place with swimming lessons etc so we didn't get much of a chance to increase his A times. He didn't have much sleep today so I put him down early & he's been down for nearly 3 hours...a long time for him lol.
I took him to the doctor today as he's developed a rash & he's had nappy rash that i haven't been able to get rid of. I've had a feeling that it might have been bothering him at night. Turns out he's got a fungal infection...poor little man :( So i'm hoping the cream will give him some relief & we can get some better nights.
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hugs, yes its likely that hes been a bit uncomfortable. WIth that new rash you may find it is a viral rash and he has had a virus. We often have trouble with sleep and behaviour to find out a few days later a virus is to blame, then we get the rash ::) :-*
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Well, we had one good night of only 2 NW lol. Last night we had 3 & tonight he's woken 3 times by 9pm :( His nappy rash is clearing up thankfully. They think the rash on his arms & legs is allergy related as DH is asthmatic. But it doesn't seem to be worrying him at all.
I'm trying to get his routine sorted a bit...its been a bit all over the place the last couple of days. I'm trying to get him on A time of 3hr 15...working towards 3hr 30. How does this look...
6:30 - E
7:45 - Solids
9:45 - S (1.5hrs)
11:15 - E
12:30 - Solids
2:15 - S (1.5hrs)
3:45 - E
5:00 - Solids
6:30 - Bath, wind down (need to work on a better wind down to)
7:00 E, bed.
What do you think? I'm trying to rule everything else before i PU/PD. I know it works as I did it with my daughter but I also remember it being hard work lol
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Is there any chance he could be waking out of hunger?
Don't want to be controversial but I found our NW's got a lot better once we'd dropped a bottle and her solids increased
x
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I was actually thinking he needs to be having a bigger lunch so i was going to try & drop the mid mornig feed. He's BF so i don't know how much he gets but he does tend to muck around with that one.
I think he's ready for a 3.5 hour awake time to so i might even jump straight in with that to. He'll be 9 months in 3 days time :)
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I would go for it Hun, if you get a rough day with short naps just revert back a bit the next day ;)
I agree re food. It may be he needs a bit ore solids. Around this age Z started to eat a bit more and we ended up feeding a bit like this.
WU 7
Breakfast 7 milk 8
Nap 10.30-12
Lunch 12 milk 1
Nap 3.30-4.30
Milk 4.30 dinner 5.30
Milk 7
BT 7.30 I was BF so Z needed 4 feeds but the last 2 ended p closer together. ;)
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Oh I forgot to mention you may find your LO likes a shorter/longer first/last or middle A. My boy liked a shorter A in the morning, long middle and shorter last A so it's worth keeping that in mind
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Just wanted to add as our LO's are similar in age, my DD (9 months 1 week) and for past couple of days I've found she's been doing really well with her A times all being the same length (3 hours) so our 'ideal' routine at the moment is:
Wake - 7am
Solids - 7.30am
Milk- 9.30am
Nap 1- 10am - 11.30am
Lunch- 12pm
Milk- 2pm
Nap 2- 2.30pm - 4pm
Solids- 5pm
Milk- 6.45pm
Bed- 7pm
I know our routine is unusual in that she has her solids first at breakfast, its purely because she has never been interested in milk first thing so it works for us and I try to make sure she has nice 'hearty' food for her dinner, pasta/roasted veg/potatoes and usually some sort of meat (we're BLW) so she's nice and full before bedtime :P
HTH a little, keeping fingers crossed for you for some rested nights :-*
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Thanks :)
We were doing pretty good but now he has a stomach virus...vomiting & diarrhea - poor little is having a hard time :'( So he's hardly eating any solids but he's ok with breastfeeding so he has to have some night feeds to. Hopefully he'll be better soon so we can get back on track & get these NW under control. xo
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HUGS its always tough with bugs. I always fed Z in the night with a virus. Some water if your LO will take it too will help keep him hydrated. xx
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He's sooo OT at the moment. He only had 2 cat naps today so we've had one NW already & its only 8pm ::) Fingers crossed for the rest of the night ;)
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Fxed for you. Hopefully he will crash. :-*
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Unfortunatly I'm back ::)
He was unwell for a while so I was hoping these NW's would sort themselves out but no such luck. I've extended his A time to 3.5 hours & switched some feeds around so it looks a bit like this...he's 9.5 months now.
6:00 BF
7:30 Breakfast
9:30 S (1.5 hrs)
11:00 Lunch
12:30 Bottle
2:30 S (45mins - 1.5hrs)
4:00 BF
5:00/5:30 Dinner
6:30 Bath
7:30 Bed.
If he has a 45 min 2nd nap then he has a last A time of 3.5hrs & but if he has 1.5hrs then its 4hrs. On a good night he only wakes twice but its usually 4-6. I've stopped feeding him in the night other than one but now I have to wean him being rocked back to sleep.
I really think SA has something to do with it...he's always been quite attached to me. Any help would be really appreciated
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Have you tried an earlier BT to see if it is the too longer A to BT causing increased NW? ie 3hrs after 45min nap and 3.5 after 1.5hr nap?
If you have ruled out OT then I suspect you may be hitting the 2-1 have a read of this...
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0
I do think the rocking may be a bit of a prop as you say. I would also consider dropping that NF if you dont think he 'needs' it as this is the age where they also can become a bit of a reason for LOs to wake.
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Thanks I actually never thought it would be the 2-1. I'll try the earlier to bed tomorrow night to see if that helps. He actually only had one sleep today as we got stuck out so he was quite ot when he went to bed. I'm not expecting a good night ::)
How do you think i should settle him in his cot? Rocking him every couple of hours isn't helping anyone.
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Can you gradually wean the rocking, do a bit less every few days then just hold for a min and PD into the cot?
Hugs forthe rough day. fXed for tonight
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I might give that a try tonight. We had 4 NW last night so pretty normal. I was hoping he would just crash lol. He naps well during the day & he goes down fairly easy at BT but its just the constant NW wakings that getting too much.
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It may take a week or two, but if your feeling up to it, I would certainly start trying to wean the rocking/holding.
Does your LO have a lovey? It may be a good time to introduce one
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Yes he has a lovey...a little soft square of blanket with a teddy bear :)
So to wean him off the rocking do i just decrease the amount of rocking i do until i'm just holding him?
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So to wean him off the rocking do i just decrease the amount of rocking i do until i'm just holding him?
Yes, and what I would do is maybe shh and pat his bottom or back gently as you do it so that you can eventually continue doing this while he is in the cot, not your arms. Then eventually you will be able to PD in the cot with a few pats, or pressure and he will settle.
Have a look at this sticky :)
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.msg1845495#msg1845495
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Thanks ;D
I was going to start tonight but he's waking every 40 minutes :o. I've given some pain relief incase he's teething.
Fingers crossed he doesn't do it all night.
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Well last night was awful...he woke every 20mins to an hour until about 4am when he finally slept til 6:30. I really hope that was a one off!!!
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Hugs, I hope today is better :-*
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I now know why he had such a bad night...he has a bad cold :( He woke every 40 mins for most of the night. Last night was slightly better but he still woke 8 times. Today was long...he had two 15min & 45 min naps. Thats really unlike him as he's usually a really good napper. See how we go tonight but im still going to try & wean the rocking.
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HUGS - I fhe is poorly I would just go with the flow till he is well :-* try medicating before BT to see if it helps him selep a bit longer and if you can us something to help keep his nose clear ie humidifier/eucalyptus oil in a jar of boiled water or vicks on a tissue down his top.
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I used a vaporise last night & gave him some meds before bed. He slept for 1.5hrs then was up for over an 1.5hrs going back down at 11pm but then slept til 6am....I can't remember the last time he slept that long!
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Well, things have gone from bad to worse :'( He's having 6-10 NW with one being at least 2 hours long. If im holding him he's fine but as soon as i try to lay him down the screaming starts. Last night I didn't get to bed until 5am with him :( So tired. Its 1:40am at the moment & he's been up for an hour. He's not really crying at the moment just yelling out. I had to have a break before my back gave out. I know i need to wean the rocking but i'm not sure what to do about the SA...which he def' has....
Thanks for all your help
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:( hugs, sounds like he is still unwell Hun. Have you taken him to the Dr to rule out an ear infection etc.
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Yes we went to the doctor on 2 days ago. He doesn't have an ear infection or anything, just a virus. He's getting better though. I think its a combination of things, illness, SA, 2-1.
I've been trying to go to him when he's crying & not just fussing & that helped with last night long waking & BT tonight...he settled himself both times. I'm guilty of going in to rescue him too fast. I'm always worried he'll wake DD up. But she she wakes any lol.
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Hugs, it is tough to know the right time to go in. I do think if you are used to responding too fast (like I was) I became scared to give Z the chance to settle and I stated to make things worse. As long you go in when the crying escalates, or even if you feel he is struggling to settle overtime you are responding to his needs.
Z was about this age when he stated trying to settle on his own and I halo take a step back ;)
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Hi :)
Things have been getting a lot better :D After trying to let him settle on his own a bit more (without me rushing in) he started putting himself to sleep. For the last week he would go down for naps & bt without any rocking at all. Just a cuddle & into the cot awake he'd roll on his tummy & go to sleep. He was only waking a max of twice....a huge improvement...he settled really easy to. He was still having night feeds which I know I need to stop doing but I just really needed to catch up on some sleep. We all did. His cold has flared up again ::) but i once he's fully better I want to get him off these night feeds as well...i'm not sure how though?? To gradually wean or cold turkey??
:)
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Great progress, yes I agree wean the NF once he is well, and rested, and you are ready ;)
Personally I would go cold turkey to wean, But that is only because GW wouldn't work for my LO....it's a tough one really. Is your DH willing to deal with the NW if you did go cold turkey? Are you BF or bottle?