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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Avery3 on March 03, 2012, 09:02:12 am

Title: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 03, 2012, 09:02:12 am
Ive been putting off posting about this because I kept hoping it was just a phase/because of illness etc but now theres seeming to be nothing wrong and its still happening.

He does 2x 1.5 hour naps a day and isnt sick anymore, we have at least 3 NW's per night. most of the time easily resettled with patting but if not then I will give him a bottle. he is 7 months and 1 week old.

Last night he resettled with NO nightfeeds so I know he can do it, he just may not be ready to do it every single night just yet. He goes to sleep independantly during the day and has an A time of 3 hours, he definitely cannot handle any longer than that, he does start showing tired signs at 2 hours 45mins and gets to the point where I cant do a full winddown cos hes cracked it if I leave it any longer than that.

He never does a 12 hour night, he more likely does an 11.5 hour night so I do need to work out bedtimes appropriately for that because he just doesnt tack on sleep missed during the day to his nightsleep.

how do I get him to stop waking up in the night?? My iron levels are low so Im already feeling tired as it is without this constant broken sleep added to it

can someone help me please? I never had this with my first son, he STTN from 8 weeks old
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kateboundy on March 03, 2012, 10:24:01 am
Hi and hugs.... Sorry cant help but we are the same here! Dd1 STTN at 9 weeks and my 7 month old is so inconsistent! Just interested in what replies you get!
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 03, 2012, 17:47:50 pm
Well we had two nws  last night and a start of 5:15am and i tried for up to 40mins to get him back to sleep. he slept while i patted him but if i stopped then about 5 mins later he would wake up. i tried leaving him to see if he would go back to sleep  himself but no he just got more and more worked up.

So so tired today and he's always grumpy so that doesn't  help :(
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kateboundy on March 03, 2012, 19:20:44 pm
Yes that is what we have too... Seems like she is going off and then wakes 5 minutes later... We have decided that she needs to stop being swaddled as it is a prop now... I have put her down tonight in sleeping bag and her arms tucked up in a muslin.  She has gone down ok... Thing is if she doesn't want to settle she breaks out of the swaddle anyhow so I don't see it helping!

Worth a try...

Hope you get a better night!
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 03, 2012, 19:25:31 pm
hope it works for you. we have already weaned the swaddle and there are no props (that Im aware of lol) he has a blankey to snuggle into so apart from something Im missing theres no need to be waking up *sigh*
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kayra on March 03, 2012, 20:34:16 pm
hugs Avery3, NW's are no joke even if they do resettle easily :(
Is he waking around the same times or is it just random? if it's around the same time would it be worth trying W2S?
Maybe eating more during the day? Has he been on solids for a good while, might it be digestion related?
Sorry I haven't been much help :( Lots of hugs xxx
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 03, 2012, 20:43:56 pm
i dont think its that he needs to eat more because the other night I was able to resettle him each time wihtout a night feed. its random with when he wakes. last night it was 9.45pm (fed him as he wouldnt resettle, he only took 60mls) and then again at 5.15am where I spent the next 40mins patting him

hes on solids, could be a digestion issue but how to tell really?
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: ZacsMumme on March 04, 2012, 00:05:48 am
We had more NW around this age with Z and it was digestive related I am sure. He was having a solid meal at 5 and I brought it forward to 4 at the latest. He started to settle and sleep better. I also gave him much less and only bland veges at this time. it's worth a shot!

Is he on probiotics? These helped us a lot.
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 04, 2012, 00:36:09 am
yeah hes been on probiotics since he was 2 months old. will bring his dinner forward to 4 and see if that helps :)
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 04, 2012, 16:40:55 pm
5:10am today. im so tired Nd so upset im just crying. i patted him for 20 mins and he's quite happy to let me but once i stop then he starts crying again.. time for pu/pd? Am i prop patting him now? My back is killing me while i stand over his cot and i literally stand there crying silently.

im really starting to resent having this child
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kayra on March 04, 2012, 18:09:45 pm
so many hugs A3. What about if you brought him in bed with you? I know it's not ideal but desperate times...
You might be onto sthg about the patting being a prop, it would seem that by now he shouldn't need so much patting. Here's a link I found with some PU/PD info, maybe you have experience with your first son but here it is anyway, http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=9287.0
do you need to pat him when he first goes to sleep too or is just for NW?
lots of hugs xxxxx
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 04, 2012, 18:18:33 pm
Thanks will take a look at that when Im on the laptop. i only have to pat him at nw's and nw's he goes to sleep independantly otherwise
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kayra on March 04, 2012, 18:26:05 pm
That's interesting that he settles independently normally but not for NWs. :( Does he like a pacifier?
do you think moving his dinner early made any difference? I guess you'd need a few days to tell.
xxxxxx
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 04, 2012, 18:38:02 pm
no he hate the pacifier. I moved dinner to 3.45 yesterday and found it made no difference. He still woke at 10.30pm and wouldnt resettle so I gave him a bottle and he took 90mls and then woke at 5.10am, so the NW's are lessening but now we have EW
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kayra on March 04, 2012, 19:02:46 pm
might it be worth doing a DF around 10? I remember we hadn't quite finished the DF when DS was this age.
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 04, 2012, 19:36:35 pm
Ive tried, he doesnt take one thats why I just wait for him to wake for it. he only takes a small amount when he does feed adn then he doesnt take a full bottle the next morning so i think he doesnt need it anymore but Im not about to tackle that one until these early wakings are dealt with
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Khalam's Mama on March 04, 2012, 20:32:22 pm
For us the need to pat to sleep and keep him asleep usually indicated UT. I appreciate you say he wont do more than 3hrs A time but this is on the low side for his age (average 3-4hrs at 8-10mo). Do you think if you were getting a solid night you would manage longer?

If you feel this is a prop issue, how will he react to just a hand on him instead as a step to weaning?
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 04, 2012, 20:38:27 pm
well I did the hand on him and he just started to wriggle after a while and then started crying..

sorry I meant to put that hes at 3 hours 15mins A time, only just gone up now
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Khalam's Mama on March 04, 2012, 20:46:48 pm
I found the A time really jumps quickly from now on. Esp if they are ill and it goes down a while, when they recover it seems to leap.
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 04, 2012, 20:53:42 pm
ok, will take that into consideration :) he was sick about 2 weeks ago and so perhaps hes gone back up more
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Khalam's Mama on March 04, 2012, 22:02:48 pm
I always find I need to get out and entertain him to stretch him that 1st time else habit and boredom creep in and make it hard.
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: *Kara* on March 05, 2012, 04:02:18 am
I found the A time really jumps quickly from now on. Esp if they are ill and it goes down a while, when they recover it seems to leap.


Here as well.  We went from 3 hrs at 6.5 months to almost 4 hrs by 9 months...
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: *Ali* on March 05, 2012, 22:03:17 pm
Does he have reflux? Just wondering if that could be causing him to wake when he comes into lighter sleep and the patting is a distraction for him.

I agree on keeping him busy, colby is much happier to stay awake longer when we are out and about.
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: *Kara* on March 05, 2012, 22:13:59 pm
If I remember correctly, A3's LO does have reflux... I could be wrong though!
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: *Ali* on March 05, 2012, 22:51:48 pm
In that case A3, is it under control right now. Only In know some of the techniques that have been suggested such as pupd and w2s are not ideal for refluxers....
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: ZacsMumme on March 05, 2012, 22:59:29 pm
Yup he is a refluxer, but off or weaning off meds ATM if I remember rightly is that right A3? :-\
He also has MPI....(not sure if soy too) hope you get a better night tonight A3 :-*

Ali how come W2S isnt good for fluxers? I used it (and HTTJ) with Z for naps and it worked well...or are you meaning for a habitual wake it wont work if its pain? (Which makes sense)

Uck, this posted as 1 was 1/2 way through, my PC is driving me nuts!
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 05, 2012, 23:20:17 pm
hi gals, yes hes a refluxer and dairy intolerant. hes off his Ranitidine but still on Losec, 20mg a day (2x 10mg daily) but last night i bumped it up to 25mg and we had a slightly better night. he woke at 10.30 and I patted him back to sleep (took 5 mins) he woke at 12.30 so i gave him a bottle cos I figured we were gonna be up every 2 hours if I didnt. then he slept till 5.45am where I patted him for 20mins and he slept till 6.30am
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: *Ali* on March 05, 2012, 23:40:21 pm
Apparently refluxers normally wake when roused during wake to sleep as they become aware of the discomfort when brought into light sleep. I think it would be ok if the reflux symptoms were fully under control though.

Do you think the reflux could be bothering him Avery3?
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 06, 2012, 02:02:44 am
I think the reflux could be bothering him but no real way to knwo for sure..

this morning he did a 1.5 hour nap that I had to wake him from and then a 30min nap in the afternoon, I even had to pat him to sleep this afternoon he was so miserable, I never have to do that anymore. Couldnt get him back to sleep either, he did what he does at the 5am wakeups, just lays there and lets me pat him but as soon as I stop he just cries....
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: ZacsMumme on March 06, 2012, 02:46:07 am
Apparently refluxers normally wake when roused during wake to sleep as they become aware of the discomfort when brought into light sleep. I think it would be ok if the reflux symptoms were fully under control though.
ah yes, im an idiot today ::) That makes complete sense

Did the change in solids help at all hun? Doesn't seem like it has :( Is he on probiotics?
Does your gut tell you he is uncomfortable or that the patting has become a prop? Or that he needs a routine tweak? I know its so hard to tell but sometimes your best ot go with your heart first.  :-*
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 06, 2012, 03:20:56 am
I honestly dont know anymore, feels like Im forever trying to figure this boy out. yeah hes on probiotics. I dont think patting has become a prop, i just know that hes really really sensitive to waking in his light sleep phase and so he wakes easily
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: ZacsMumme on March 06, 2012, 03:51:59 am
i just know that hes really really sensitive to waking in his light sleep phase and so he wakes easily
HUGS Z is like this, I have loud white noise, blackouts and have to keep his room temp pretty steady ::) Do you think it could be something like cold waking him?
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 06, 2012, 05:20:19 am
i dont think its the cold, he had a thermal singlet on last night, a fleecy onesie and a couple of blankets and he wasnt too hot either.

his white noise is on loud every night, but DS1 came into my room about 5 mins before L woke up so perhaps (even though C was quiet) L was stirred by that? Its ridiculous really that hes that sensitive! I mean the two boys share a room, it just cant be that quiet...

ok heres something new, he woke at 2.30pm and I tried till 3pm to get him back to sleep. he wouldnt. so I tried to have him down by 6pm (because he doesnt tack on nightsleep so having him to bed any earlier would mean an even earlier wakeup) he was falling asleep on teh bottle so I took him into the other room to wake him to get him to finish the bottle... well he did and now he will not go to sleep, hes wide awake!!!!!

Today Im so tired Ive been lying on the floor playing with the boys cos I just cant stay upright, my head is very spinny and dizzy and i have a major headache, these NW and EW are really taking their toll on me :(
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Khalam's Mama on March 06, 2012, 08:02:26 am
Ds1 coming in or me coming in would wake ds2 for sure so that may have been it.  How was the night?
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 06, 2012, 14:03:21 pm
Well usually it doesn't wake him because the white noise is on but I've just had a very interesting nw. he woke at 2.25am and i patted him (just like i had to at bedtime as well and the other NW we had earlier) and he went back to sleep but then woke 5mins later and i thought this is ridiculous so i started pu/pd where i only pat him to calm him then i stop and say the key phrase. well he was not happy. 30mins later and he's thrashing around the cot etc then he looks up (he's a tummy sleeper) to the corner of the cot and stares at it for about 30 seconds, throws
himself over to it, puts his head into it and lays flat and goes to sleep!!! Im standing there stunned wondering what on earth has just happened!
Don't know if he will stay asleep but he's been quiet for 5 mins now....

What do you think of that?
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 07, 2012, 07:32:26 am
right, well he did stay asleep after that and was then up at 5.55am, I thought after a 35min NW we wouldve got a bit more of a sleepin but its a step forward (I think??)
So on average now we have 3 NW's every night...
lets see how well he goes tongiht
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kateboundy on March 07, 2012, 08:36:27 am
Sounds like it might be developmental to me... But at least it is improving!
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kayra on March 07, 2012, 10:01:05 am
I remember when a close to 6 wake up time was good news :P
I've been thinking, since he sleeps independently normally but needs lots of patting for the NW, his sleep must get really light around that time. So I think as pps said adjusting A times and a bit more stimulation during the day might be the trick to get him properly tired for a proper nights sleep. Is he still in childcare? Does his older sibling play with him at all?-so getting enough action basically?
lots of hugs, I hope there's a breakthrough soon!
xx
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 07, 2012, 18:55:06 pm
he gets plenty of play, DS1 plays with him a fair bit, I play with him and there are times hes playing on his own. He goes to daycare 2x a week (where he takes 2x 30-45min naps there and another shortish nap at home)

He woke at 5.35am this morning but he was soaked through so I dont know if he wouldve slept or not if he hadnt.....
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kayra on March 07, 2012, 20:57:25 pm
i hate it when they wake up wet like that :( yeah, maybe he'd have done another half hour? Did he NW a lot last night?
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: Avery3 on March 07, 2012, 21:02:07 pm
no he only woke at 11.30 and he drank 190mls!!!

he took 260mls at bedtime so Im thinking maybe hes truly hungry?? Ive upped his solids today. he drank 260mls at his first bottle so maybe it is hunger now thats waking him early??
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: *Ali* on March 07, 2012, 21:52:06 pm
Sounds like he could be hungry A3.

I just saw on another thread than someone cut the absorbent part of a nappy out and put it inside their usual nappy overnight to prevent leaks. Might be worth a try if you are still having troubles with overnight leaks.
Title: Re: over a month of mulitple NW's... so tired
Post by: kayra on March 08, 2012, 07:45:41 am
wow that's a lot, it could well be hunger!