BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: LouiseV on March 26, 2012, 21:56:23 pm
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Hi
I have another post on here as my LO just moved successfully to one long nap a day after months of short napping and many NWs. He hasn't consolidated that nap partly due to teething but it's usually 2 hours from 11.30-1.30. He is awake at 6.30 and bed at 6.30.
SO... I night weaned him (and we have gone down to bottles and mostly solids during day at the same time) and he just has one BF before bed
He was going to sleep independently and sleeping until 5.30 when I'd feed him but is now all over the place
I'm hoping someone might have some insight into his NWs which started when he was sick and he is now teething.... But it's been a month!
He seems to be writhing. No amount of paracetamol or pupd works. He is soooooo unsettled. Even if k feed him he is awake again in minutes. I let him sleep next to me and feed to settle which used to be great to get us through teething but he just isn't sleeping and writhes, throws his head back, seems to be straining and screams and screams. Feeding calms him then when hea off he starts up again
We were doing this from 12 until 4 last night. Then he jut seemed really awake and I had to work hard to convince him to sleep!
Just wondering about the way he is awake. Is this normal? No reflux or any other things going on. Normal poos etc.
I'm a bit beside myself haha.
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I should add he just turned 1 :-)
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I am going to follow along for some ideas!!!
It does sound like discomfort though. Pain meds dont help wind pains. Have you tried anything for wind or a food diary to see if anything is upsetting him?
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HUGS - I agree with KM sounds like discomfort, or developmental madness :-\
There is a huge developmental leap at ~12 months. I know these don't cause 'pain'. However, if your LO is sensitive to these like mine was you can get long fussy NW. We get them for about 3-4 nights during WW. Not at every one but we did get them at the 12 month one and included in this was what seemed to be restless legs! Is your LO close to or started walking?
http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-8
Also I was thinking it could be teeth? The moving molars can cause a lot of pain, even if you cant 'see' them coming. I felt awful when Z was miserable for a few weeks, and I was not noticing any molar movement, all of a sudden I felt the tooth already cutting through! (oooops!)
The only other thing I can think of right now is maybe something he is eating as KM also mentions. It could even just be too much of something ATM, for us when Z wet through an apricot phase he ate too many and we had NW for a few days (as I continued to give them to him ::) ) till I figured out too many gave him sore tum and rashy butt
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thanks you guys - I haven't tried anything diet wise, he has just started formula though and cows milk and started walking in the last two weeks......
I can deal with NW if I can re-settle him, because I think you are right - it is probably teeth / developmental etc etc, its just that nothing puts him back to sleep and settles him! After he has done his initial stretch (either 2 hours or up to 6 tops) he is pretty much up and down or wide awake for hours on end from there....
Are there non-dairy formulas? Does he still need milk? He eats well but doesn't eat QUITE enough yet to drop bottles completely. I could go back to breastfeeding I suppose?
I pretty much am anyway considering he fed ALL night long last night (sore boobs today!)
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I nev fully introduced formula, Z gets 1 bottle a day now and 1 BF before bed. The reason I be er fully switched is that I noticed he got a sore Tum from too much. I would certainly try gradually transitioning him rather than all at once. Maybe just 1 bottle in the morning then Bf and see if you notice any discomfort during the day, then try swapping the next feed. KWIM?
You could try a soy formula??
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THanks for that - I introduced it pretty slowly - just 1 small bottle at morning tea initially and then afternoon tea time too with BF morning and night, and I've now also started gradually introducing cows milk to it.....
He had a pretty dairy free day today but was worse than ever even with a good nap (2 hours) so I just don't know what to expect tonight!!
My local pharmacist gave us some chamomile stuff for his tummy as he said not to go blaming things on teething (?) but I just dont know what else it would be....and he's definitely cutting at the moment.....
...the fun continues...!
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My LO was teething a few weeks ago (she is almost 5 months) and was doing the same actions indicating pain as you mentioned. We tried pain medication as it worked in the past when she had teething pain, but it didn't seem to work. What worked was Gripe Water. Helps with sour stomach due to swallowing all that drool. It made my LO much more comfortable, neutralized the stomach acid etc. Of course, you wouldn't want to give your LO this all the time so if it's a one-off, it may work. Otherwise, as others have suggested, maybe it's a dietary thing...
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Well if he is cutting I would totally blame it on teething lol ;)
You could introduce some probiotics? These helped my LO a ton, we started at 12 months and it made a ton of difference to his gut and digestion. I swear it stopped our sore tummy NW :-\
As hniles mentioned we also use gripe water, still! It works a treat when teething, or when Z has wind or hiccups.
Hugs x
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thanks you guys!
Right, tonight he's getting gripe water, probiotics and an early tea as I think some time to digest is probably needed too :-)
Last night he was up 8-10 (after a 6.30 BT) and then EVERY HALF HOUR
Kill me now
Hehe xx
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Did you give pain meds Louise. I tried some gripe water but it made no difference. I hope you have more luck.
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Im really desperate this just isn't working
He was awake from 10.15 (6.30bt) last night and struggled to settle all night
He would cuddle into me and sob and sob
Pain meds, dairy free..... I'd feed and he settle down but toss and turn and never go back off to sleep
When he did he'd be awake again within the hour
He could self settle! This is soooo bizarre and he's not getting any sleep no matter what I do. I'm pulling out all the stops but it's not working.
Last night he didn't really seem in pain just really really unable to settle to sleep even with help/ feeds
He wakes up happy and is great all day long. I'm beside myself I don't think I have had more than 3 broken hours per night for weeks now
Any thoughts at all are so appreciated. Sorry you guys :(
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so many hugs hun
I wold take him to the Dr first just to rule out anything - ear infections can be a funny one as can strep
How is his nap going?
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OK, I'll take him back - I had his ears checked etc and they thought teething....but then again, that seems to always be the go to!
His nap is actually going really well considering his nap history! Most days he is down for 2 hours - sometimes only 1.5 and sometimes 3)
If He's not tired enough or slightly OT he wakes after an hour but generally resettles himself or some bum patting does the trick.
Amazing really.
Last time I talked to the GP (on the phone, they couldnt see me but wanted me to come in today which I could do - I will go though) they said that if I have tried everything else and it seems like he WANTS to sleep but can't I should have a think about using phenergan for 2-3 nights to see if it helps his brain re-set a bit as he's obviously not able to get back to sleep in the night despite wanting to.
I'm really unsure, I'm not totally against it - and I dont want to do it for me as such as I think I can continue to get by - but I feel like I'm too tired to make a decision about it on my own right now! If they were just night-wakes I'd get over it, but they seem like ore than that - its so wierd that he cant go back to sleep and for once in his long, complex sleep history he actually wants to!!!!!
argh. more thinking to do :(
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I'm also wondering if it's appropriate to do wi/wo with this kind of night wake?????
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I have been thinking about you and your LO :-*
A few random thoughts....
How is his diet, any new foods he has been having or foods he has been eating more or less of? I found we had awful NW when I gave Z too many apricots ::) silly really, but he got a terribly sore tummy and the runs! Too much complex carbs can also make them a bit constipated and feel icky in the night when digesting.
Have you tried ibuprofen rather than pamol? If its teeth then the pamol may not be covering the discomfort. It doesn't for my LO :(
Does your LO settle when you are holding/comforting him?
HUGS
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His diet's pretty consistent - I can't think of anything that might be doing it but will have a closer look!!!
Guess what - last night he did a 6 hour stint (until 12.30) and then woke just every 2 hours (can't believe I just said 'just'). He seemed a bit different - like, he didn't seem in pain so much as wanting me. For the first time in ages I thought to myself that it felt like a sleep issue not a pain one (and I think this has possibly come from being in discomfort for so long that its habitual to wake now?? maybe??). He was reaching for me (he wasn't doing this 2 weeks ago).
Once he woke and put himself back to sleep which is a HUGE shift back as he used to do this so well.
He won't settle in my arms - sometimes he snuggles in and cries and cries but he won't go back to sleep or stop crying or anything.
I had him on nurofen but it didnt seem to work (but it has before for teeth in the past)
Feeling slightly more positive - I can handle regular old sleep issues (haha) if thats what this is now...........
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That is great progress. How were things last night?
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Hi, we seem to have a similar problem to you, although not as bad, thankfully. I am sorry, it sounds horrendous for you.
My lo 15.5 months, seems to have one nw a night for a little over an hour, but what I find strange is I have no idea what is wrong and she seems like she wants to sleep but just can't. Sometimes she'll seem like she's fallen back to sleep only to wake up full on crying a few minutes later.
I don't think she is teething (she has 15 teeth), don't think she's ill, just got over chicken pox which is when this started, but I do get the impression she could be in pain. No change to diet lately but havent Written a diary.
I'll keep an eye on how you get on and let you know if I find a magical cure!
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The thing to bare in mind with intolerances is they tend to need to build up so you won't get perfect correlation with symptoms and food.
How are you doing Louise?
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So, time for an update. I'm writing this quickly as I get teary when I think about it.
Things are so much worse now, its just getting ridiculous.
That one "good night" was all alone - I've kept him off dairy, hes on everything going from probiotics, melatonin natural syrup (not the drug) to gripe water and pamol when I'm unsure......
He's just NOT sleeping.
Last night he woke and I resettled with a feed about 3 hours after putting him down (the usual - starts off as a strained sounded whimper then progresses to a full blown scream) then an hour later he just started screaming really really loudly - no lead up or anything. I started wondering about night terrors????? I don't know - he was inconsolable. I'd feed but he'd start hungrily then turn his head away. Turning on the light sometimes 'reset' him as did Daddy coming in and making him giggle. Then he'd start up again.
Then he properly woke and was wide awake talking and laughing for 2-3 hours, I lost count. He was awake being either extremely unhappy or awake and chatting (and not taking feeds which is my last resort to settle him) for 4 hours in total.
I'm a wreck.
He has 1 nap a day - 2 hours usually but lately more like 1-1.5 because he's obviously OT despite being the happiest, most easy going little boy during the day. This horrible cycle had started before I transitioned to 1 nap and he definitely naps better now (previously he was having shorter naps and now he usually does really well)
I tried to give him another one today as he woke after 1hr 20 but he just won't do it - even if I try and AP him to sleep he wont have it. If I put him down sooner than 11.30 he sleeps for 1 hour 15 (a sure sign in him of UT) and doesn't seem remotely tired at all until just after 11.15 when I start the routine and get him down as quickly as I can.
On top of all of this, he has developed a cold today so is extremeley snotty so I think I'm going to have to continue trying to settle him until he's well again :(
I just feel like I've tried everything and we keep going further and further backward.
Any thoughts at all lovely ladies??
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We have started to get some slightly longer stretches by being very consistent with Pupd for his age. I think all the different ways trying to settle can be confusing. Now I need to be even more consistent to get rid of the early hrs feed too.
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I think consistency is key here - but I tried PUPD reeeeeally consistently and after a week of exhausting myself and up to 3 hour stretches I gave up - it has worked before though.
I'm at the stage where I think I need to forget about the cause as this could now be habitual anyway, and look at things anew and start again.
Does anyone have any experience with walk in / walk out? Should I start a thread for support with that?
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How old is your LO now hun? Am I right he is over 12 months?
If so I would start a new thread in TS (toddler sleep board) - You may get fresh eyes AND mummas that have LOs around the same age.
We did WI/WO with Z at 13 months and I was so scared to do it but he was fine. It worked very well and though the first 2 nights were hard (DH did them) afer 3 nights he was fine, no BT antics, no NW for feeds - bad aye! and no nuttiness. My Z is also touchy with sleep so gets wound up, but GW just didnt work, he got hyped up and wired. ::)
You do need to feel confident he is well first. I know you never know 100% but for me it was having DH and I both agree we felt Z was well, his cries were frustration not pain and that is reflux was fully controlled at the time.
HUGS - So sorry things are still so tough.
FWIW we never had consistent STTN till 13 months - and we will have our periods of craziness :-*
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Thanks so much for all your input, thats a good plan. I'll keep going until this virus (and now tooth!) passes and then get some toddler help.
He has just turned 12 months - and started running and his party :)
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Hugs give the bug time to pass, and tooth. So many hugs Hun. I do feel your pain :-*
So cute about the running! Hope you had a lovely bday. Come join us on the 12-18 mth birth club if you like :D (not that I have left on it ;) )
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I'm just jumping back on this thread to update you guys who were all so helpful and in case anyone else finds this thread while looking for advice......
Well, its early days yet but we did it. M sleeps all night long before waking at 5.30 for a feed.....or an actual wake up!.....but that's the next part to be tackled....for now, we have a sleeper even if things are still tentative and will take time to consolidate
I'm a different person. I had no idea the effect of sleep deprivation. I felt physically ok - but mentally I was a wreck and its only now that I've had some proper sleep under my belt that I can fully see it.
We hit a tricky patch I think - teething and a cold - and my older baby quickly picked up on the new allowances I'd make for him and his temperament meant he wouldn't back down for anything! It took us around 2 months, maybe longer, of tweaking his routine, trying every method, being patient....and eventually I think this is what helped us (in case you're wondering!)
- Tweaking tweaking tweaking his EASY and giving changes time
- removing the anxiety at night - so, for a few weeks I just fed him when he wanted (as I did when he was teething)
- Making changes slowly - so, no feeding but lots of holding, singing and cuddles instead which made for LONG NWs for a week
- feeding at 5.30 and no earlier - sometimes he goes back to bed sometimes we get up but I think this might iron out eventually
- he has other things to help him sleep - white noise, a cuddly he adores and a sleep sack
Thanks for all of your input - heres hoping this lasts (til the next tooth haha)
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Yay what a great update. Well done you :-* :D sometimes it takes a while to get there but once you do it's so great...till the next time hehe x