BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: babymunkey on March 27, 2012, 20:27:41 pm
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Hmmmmm, don't know what to do, just thinking out loud really...
1. DD mucks about BF'ing - bobs on and off, wriggles and squirms and I'm never convinced she gets a good feed.
2. She never seems really hungry in the day
3. I've recently weaned the dummy for the 2nd time (we had to give it back to her after a hospital stay) and I suspect she's using feeds more as a sucking activity.
4. It feels like I'm less "unavailable" when I bottle feed which means I can be with DS more when I'm feeding
5. She still wriggles on the bottle (she has 2 bottles a day at BT and DF) but feeds much better in terms of volume and drinking
I am happy that if I switch to FF, I know she will get the nutrients she needs. I personally have always thought that BM is definitely best. I need to be able to live with the knowledge that I am doing this mostly for selfish reasons. I'm fed up with the wriggly stressful feeds, and being the only one who can feed her, and sitting on the blimmin sofa away from everyone else.....
But.....I'm worried I'll regret it - bottles are a PITA when out and about and in the night. Maybe the wriggly feeds are a phase....
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I definately see the appeal of FF for all the reasons you say so if you decide to stop BFing it is totally understandable.
with both mine the 4-5 month periods were the worst. Silly silly distracted short feeds and bobbing on and off at every available opportunity and noise. But after that it was WAY better. More spaced out feeds then solids and before i knew it we were on 4 short feeds a day. Until then I fed straight after naps in the bedroom and got her latched on before she really knew what she was doing and got a good feed into her!
Not trying to convince you either way but I know that 4-5 month mark was when I questioned what I was doing with BFing with both of them.
{{{hugs H}}}} Oh and at this age R went down to less than 5 minutes a feed so maybe B is a much more efficient feeder now too?
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I know how you feel - I came pretty close to giving up with x as he was so difficult to feed. For me it wasn't so much the fact that he wriggled as that he scratched the h*ll out of me whenever I was feeding him and I just hated it. When it was happening, though, I remembered that both girls went through a phase where every feed was preceded by 20 minutes of all-out screaming before they would latch on so I figured it was worth holding out to see if the worst of it passed. And it did - with all 3 of them. Now, bf'ing is by far the easier way of feeding him, and I can't see myself giving up any time soon.
Clearly, if you want to give up then do - it is absolutely your decision and you shouldn't feel guilty about doing what is best for you, but IMHO you will probably find that this is a phase and she will settle down if you give her a couple of weeks. One thing which might be making things worse is the fact that she has a bottle twice a day - it is easier to drink from a bottle so a lot of combined-fed babies get lazy when it comes to the boob. I have kept x on number 1 teats to make sure he still has to work at getting the milk out of the bottle.
Incidentally, I'm not sure that I think your reasons are selfish - your main concerns are that she gets a better feed and you spend more time with ds - so don't let that stop you switching to ff if that is what you want to do.
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FWIW, LOs do drink more from a bottle as they don't get the "full" signal as soon as they do when BF.
Sorry it's hard at the moment. That 4 month mark is a killer with a big growth spurt, dodgy sleep and distraction.
I'm sure you'll make the best choice for you and your family, whatever that is :-*
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Just some (((hugs)))) decisions like that aren't easy!
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(((HUGS))) H! It's not an easy decision. I'm sure whatever you decide it will be the best decision for you and your family.
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DS went thru what you're describing and it did pass. I find that I need to pay attention to how much time has passed, not to let his feeds get too close or he'll barely feed, be distracted, and even throw it up 5mins after.
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Don't have much else to add except hugs and wonderingbehat nipple you might be using on those bottles? When I switched to a newborn nipple, E really had to work at it and she's such a cuddly baby that she started refusing the bottle and wanted contact while she worked.
We did go through a similar phase and I'm glad people told me about this phase because I was sure that we were done fornication.
You are not being selfish at all. You want what's best for everyone and having more time is no small thing. BUT - I'll give the same advice I was given: don't quit on a bad feed.
Hugs and support for whatever decision you make.
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Thanks girls.
Vicki I think I've read your quote before re giving up on a bad day and I think that's good advice. Ps love love love the autocorrect - pls don't edit your post til I can put it on Marsha's thread ;D
Re bottles - we use Breastflow bottles which have a double teat - the inner teat is made of stiff rubber and is designed so that babies have to squash it with their tongues to let the milk out. The outer teat is the widest most breast like shape I've seen to encourage a similar latch. In fact I would go so far as to say her 'latch' on the bottles is waaay better than on me!!!! She's still on the newborn flow - as a measure it takes her 30 mins to drain 150ml, which I think is a good indication that it's not too easy for her. I'm not saying that's definitely part of the problem but I think we've done everything we can to limit the impact of combined feeding on BF.
Littletoes - you could have a point re feeds too close. I've been feeding her more than she asks for as I'm trying to drop a NF by getting her to take more in in the daytime. Maybe I'll have to go back to purely on demand. Problem is we're also battling short naps, plus I feel like since her stay in hospital I can't read her hunger cues any more - she was nil by mouth for a while, then tube fed round the clock and it's well and true stuffed us up in terms of routine.
The news that it could be a phase is good to hear. That might spur me on - I'll tell myself I'll just do one more week at a time.
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Hugs H, every time I wanted to give up (which happened a good few times) I would always set myself a time ie in one week, and judge how I felt then. It always turned out I didn't really want to stop.
That said, Clare is right, your reasons aren't at all selfish and if you do end up switching to FF you have done an amazing job so far and you have nothing to feel guilty about xxx
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I've been feeding her more than she asks for as I'm trying to drop a NF by getting her to take more in in the daytime.
I've tried lots of different ways to get him to feed less at night. But when I was feeding more often in the day it seemed to add to the problem. When I space feeds out 3hr15, 3hr30 (which is longest he can stand) I feel like it's more structured, then I don't give in and feed him when he's grabbing at me before naps. I give him a paci instead if I know it's only been 2hrs since his last feed and I try to hold and comfort him. We also went thru short naps for months and months, couldn't get past 30mins until just recently when he decided he wanted to sleep longer. I know it's not good to watch the clock when BF, but sometimes being more aware of the hrs between feeds helps sort things out. If she can do 2hr30 between feeds, stick with that for a while. She'll still get a lot of calories during the day.
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ROFL that was supposed to be "DONE FOR"
But I'm sure you know that. ;) I agree on trying to space out your feeds a bit and the nipple sounds like something I wish I had.
More hugs and support - and autocorrects when you need them :P
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Kind of back to square one ladies - I had gone back to feeding more on demand, and she seemed to have settled a bit.
But now I think she's not getting enough from me - I also think I may be misrreading some of her hunger cues as tired (or they are all the same and I'm supposed to guess ::)). I think she was hungry most of today, didn't get one smile until after we gave her a bottle this afternoon, and after both side BF at bedtime tonight, she took a 150ml bottle.
I'm sooo tired still, I just don't seem to be able to catch up. If I'm going to carry on BF, I need to rally some energy and try and feed more often for the next few days - but then I'm worried we'll go back to the silly behaviours as above. I ended the feed at BT cos she was mucking about, flipping my nipple in and out, bobbing on and off squirming, blah blah blah.....I wonder if she doesn that cos there isn't much milk....
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Are you offering both sides during the day or just the one? Might be worth giving her the second, especially if she might be in GS territory. Could be worth feeding more frequently so that your supply is being stimulated as much as possible. You could also add a pump after feeds to boost if you're feeling up to it (or not if you're not! I totally understand exhaustion!) Are you drinking enough water and eating ok?
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I haven't been offering both sides - will do that starting tomorrow.
I'm eating fine (Never much problem there ::)) but defo not drinking enough for sure - just don't get time (well not time to do it, but to remember) will try harder tomorrow.
That's my motto right now for life I think!!
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Fluids are just so important and I know full well myself that when I don't drink enough (most days ::) ) that DD gets more frustrated with milk flow.
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Hi, H. :)
I have been single side feeding since about 6-7 weeks old with no problem, until last week, that is!! He started the 6 month GS and WOW he took a lot! :o I had to start offering both sides. He was only going 2 hours on one (and being fussy in between feeds), and now goes 3-3.5 on both. He bobs off and complains (and fools around like you described) when he's emptied one...that's when I switch sides. If she did that after the second side, though, she was probably just finished.
Water...I found a solution that works for me. I fill a 2 Liter bottle (a clean soda bottle) with water every morning and pour from it into my glass all day. My goal every day is to have it empty by BT. I can see what I've had/haven't drank, so it motivates me (plus, I can't trick myself into thinking I've really had more than I have ::) )
Hth
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Thanks Val - I'm normally pretty good with water - I keep a glass near the kitchen sink and any time I go near it I fill it and down it. But just don't seem to have time ATM! Eg this morning all I've had to drink is 2 cups of tea. Naughty Mummy.
I've always struggled with knowing when one side is empty - how do you tell? I check by squeezing but I know that they never really 'empty' - most of the time milk still squirts out as opposed to just bubbling out IYSWIM. My boobs feel empty, but they've finally settled and I never get that full to bursting feeling anymore anyway.
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The "empty" thing is tricky when they get older and when it's not your first. I hardly ever get the empty (or full!) feeling either now, except when he skips feeds. I take my cues more from him and how much swallowing he's doing (which of course is hard if she's bobbing on and off). The water thing is hard too, I've been struggling with that lately too.
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I found that a good multivitamin and a seperate mineral suppliment has really helped me feel more awake. I wake often with DS but adding that suppliments to my diet has helped me feel a bit more energetic. That way I know that I'm replacing what DS is taking out of me in case I have a day (well many days) when I'm rushed and don't eat or drink enough or on time.
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Helen, I'm feeling exactly what you are at this point. On top of the bobbing off and on and 5 min feeds, I'm off dairy and wheat/gluten to help with his digestion. So, yes, I'm selfish because I'm dying to eat bread and cheese and ice-cream again! Anyway, I'm still thinking that around 6/7 months when he's on solids, I'll transition to FF or at least cut it back to only 2 feeds (morning and bedtime) and the rest formula.
During this horrible sleep regression/routine change thing this past month, I also got plugged ducts a few times because I didn't wake him for the DF. I just kept thinking "why am I doing this?" Anyway, I battle back and forth between quitting and sticking it out for the year like I did with DD.
Don't you go back to work soon? How will you handle the BFing and work?
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*hugs* H...bfing is hard work! I don't have much advice to offer, but I'm here to hold your hand :-*
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Bad day again today..... :( :(
I just don't think she's getting enough from me - but she seems to be fine with that until bedtime where she will take a whopping feed - anyone know roughly how much is "average" at this age? I'll maybe post on the FF board.
She's still mucking about etc - part of the problem is with short naps, I try to feed her before she goes down if her feed would be due during the nap (assuming she might sleep through for a full nap) - of course inevitably she doesn't sleep through and I needn't have fed her, but I think it aggravates the snacking, mucking about behaviour as she's never really hungry.
Sighh - we're a bit of a mess still....I am determined to make it to 6 months, but I'm struggling - cheer me on girls!! I just feel like I need 1 part of our routine to fall into place and then everything else will have a chance to come right.....
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Ahh, H, it's so hard to know what's going on. Most likely you are making enough milk, especially if she's ok during the day. There's a calculator to give a rough idea of how much LO might be taking (or at least needing if you're giving EBM) at a feed here http://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/milkcalc/
One day at a time :-*
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anyone know roughly how much is "average" at this age?
H how much is she taking at BT? I would think anywhere between 6 and 8 oz would be the average at her age?
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*hugs* I feel like I'm running on empty, too, at bedtime. And I wish I had an answer as to how to beef up your supply at that time, but I'm trying to figure it out as well. I've been dealing with it by cluster feeding her in the evenings when possible. Amount-wise it works out to be the same vs. one feed. M seems to want to do this on her own anyways, especially right when I get home from work, she wants to nurse.
FWIW, when M gets a bottle (bm or formula), she's eating 4-5oz...sometimes--rarely--6oz. She eats about every 3.5-4h.
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She's moved up this last week to taking 180ml at BT and the DF - BT tonight she took about 210ml. I think its 30ml per oz isn't it? So she's bang on in that range then. Thanks Elise.
I'll check the other links thanks girls - I think they key lies in not feeding her in between to help with naps. And given that we are still mostly on 40/45 min naps, I guess its not helping to be worth the impact on BF'ing. Like I said, if we could just get our naps sorted, I think we'd have a chance to get back on track with other stuff....
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hi ya, sorry for butting in on your topic, im new to the writing on the forum. im at the exact stage where my dd is only feeding for no more than five mins at a go and no matter what i do i can get her to feed for longer. im really worried she is not getting enough, she is waking all the time at night, not sleeping during the day, so im wrecked. i have tried to get her to take a bottle but she refuses, even though i have tried every type of bottle, with formula and with breast milk. i have told solids is the only way to go, so i have started even though i really didn't want to until she was six months or over. but due to exhaustion i said id give it a try. so i gave her baby rice in the morning and she loves it but it hasn't changed anything. i feel guity for giving the solids but i feel they haven't done anything to help so maybe i could take her back off them. please any advice.
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Hi caoimhe mum, Shiv has started a new topic for you on the main BF board (http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=228890.msg2426715;topicseen#new). Perhaps you could pop over there and we'll get to giving you some support with this. :-*
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I just wanted to add something that I learned while almost giving up BF'ing my DD. In Canada we have a breastfeeding help line which I called everyday (no word of a lie). My LO didn't seem to be getting enough milk in my mind but the nurse on the helpline told me that with each growth spurt your LO goes through your milk changes to meet their demands. So in the beginning we start out making 'Skim' milk and continue on to make 'Homoginized' milk. So if this is true (which I believe it is) then your LO will require less at a feed because your milk is more fattening causing the LO to get full faster. This tip saved me and I can remember saying if I could just make it until my LO is 4 mths and now she's 10mths and BF'ing is going great. Another thing that I noticed is if I don't drink enough water in a day my boobs don't feel near as full so drink up. It's good for you and baby. Hope this info helps someone as it did me.
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I just feel like I need 1 part of our routine to fall into place and then everything else will have a chance to come right.....
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i totally agree with you about this, since i have found that other people have the same problem regards the feeding then maybe its the sleeping we need to sort out and have confidence in ourselves that they are getting enough at the five mins.
you are really lucky that your little one is taking a bottle
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I would think that you are more likely to have success with sorting the feeding out and then hoping the sleep falls into place - it is definitely the case that once one is sorted then the other often works out too, but you have much more control over the feeding than the sleep.
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but you have much more control over the feeding than the sleep.
I'm not sure I know how hun - today was a classic example - 3 x 45 minute naps, feeds would have fallen during each of them, but if I fed before I put her down, she would have been fed at 2.5 hours ish.
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With my 3 they would have been okay to wait until after the nap (assuming that you have reached a 3 hour easy) - our feed times were basically fixed unless there was some big reason not to be. So feeds were at 7, 10, 1, 4, 6.30 (because there was no keeping them awake any longer!), and sleeps were roughly 8.30, 11.30, 3.30. I must confess mine never did so well with shortening a times after short naps, so maybe if that had worked for them then I would have had more trouble getting the feeds fixed.
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This may sound crazy, but have you tried throwing EASY out the window for a few days? It was some of the best advice given to me and that's how we discovered that E fed best before she slept. So we ended up with an AESY and it worked.
It was a complete 'let myself off of the hook for a few days' in terms of routine and there were a few feeds where I attempted and she would have none of it. Then we got our groove
Just a thought.
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Vikki - we don't really have an EASY anyway - I don't see how you can we short naps. I have a post running on the EASY boards, maybe you guys could jump over there and see what you think?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=228443.0
But that did occur to me today - I'm open to all suggestions!
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One thing that I did do with x quite often was to feed at 10 and 10.30/11 and then he would last until 2 for his next feed - would that help with Beth's routine?
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would that help with Beth's routine?
Maybe if we had one!! Honestly we just stumble through each day - from awake time, we just do a cycle of 2 - 3 hours A time, 45 minute sleeps, and I fit feeds in and around as I can or need to to get through naps.
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Back again girls - I think we're on wind down. But I just wanted to say thanks for getting us this far and ask a few questions.
I'm still feeling need to top her up during the day plus she's going to be going to the childminders a few days a week now, so my plan is to drop the 2 daytime feeds and switch to a bottle. Then I'll feed both sides at 6, and still top her off with a bottle at BT. And keep any NFs and first morning feed as BFs. Do you think that would work - I seem to remember that you could drop feeds and keep some?
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Yep, with N from 7 months on I would BF her morning and evening only, she would get bottles in between and it worked great until she was 10 months, I was back to work, stress kicked in and my supply dried up. But until then it was great and my body adapted super well to just having those two feeds.
Good luck!
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Sounds ok to me - if that works for your family and you're settled with that decision :)
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I had Katie on just morning and BT bfs from about 7-8 months on and it worked well for us until an awful stomach virus killed my supply completely. So yes, it should work ok. :)
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*hugs* H! I think that's a great plan :)
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That's what I did with Sophie, just morning, bedtime and pumped at night for DF in a bottle. I did that until she was 1 (no DF pumping after about 7 months).