BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Avery3 on April 04, 2012, 07:07:28 am
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Ive had enough, Ive done every BW technique with this boy and hes still up about 5-6 times a night. i can count on one hand how many times hes slept through the night and Im EXHAUSTED!!! for example this evening DS2 has gone to bed at 6pm (due to wonky naps today) and woken up at 6.40pm. Ive been trying to get him back to sleep. Meanwhile DS1 is supposed to be getting ready to be in bed by 7pm... hes not nearly ready cos Im trying to get DS2 settled so DS1 ends up going to bed late and becoming OT and miserable the next day as well. This happens nearly every night!!! I cannot stay in that room trying to settle DS2 while DS1 is running rampant around the house in OT mode, only to have me come out and rush him into his own bedtime.
Ive dosed DS2 up with ibuprofen, Ive made sure hes eaten enough in teh day and not the wrong kinds of food. hes recovering from a cough but thats not the issue because this was happneing before he got sick too. My mother in law is coming to babysit him for the night next week and her comment to me was "we dont still have to pat him for half an hour everytime he wakes up do we?" and Im thinking "you shouldnt blardy well have to but ya do!!!" after 9 fricken months of this cr@p and Im still having broken sleep, everyone is irritable and fed up with DS2 and Im just over it.
I feel like theres nothing else left to do for this child! Ive done PU/PD, gradual withdrawal, routine changes, shh/pat. the most effective is shh/pat but its become a prop and im sick of being used to get him back to sleep when he wakes up nearly every single hour in the night.
this morning was a beauty of a start time too.... 4:45am. I tried for an hour and a half to get him back to sleep. Nope.
So I dont think I can do this anymore. Ive had enough. Im sick of him just not sleeping at night, he knows how to do it, Ive seen him do it, but he just wont and Im getting fed up. I cant even enjoy going out and leaving him with a babysitter because I know he will be up and down.
Im getting really upset with him and I really need some help
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Hi there,
I don't know if I have any solutions for you, but I did want to say hi and just say that its okay to be frustrated and that I will be thinking of you. Have you had him checked by the doctor to see that its nothing medical like silent reflux?
Anyway, hope the rest of your day was better...
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No words of wisdom I'm afraid, I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along soon. Just couldn't read and not leave loads of (((HUGS)))
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well its midnight and I'm trying to get him to sleep again for the 4th time. this is literally my night every single night. I just want to leave him in there to cry because I'm so over this.
so very very over this.
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ok I'm actually ready to hurt him. I HAVE to leave him to cry because its actually the safer option for him right now.
I really need help! plse??!!
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Has he always been like this? Have you ruled out reflux pain and/or intolerances?
Huge huge hugs - this does sound like something is causing him pain or discomfort.
It's important you try and get some restbite - I have been in the place where I have felt like hurting my lo as she would not stop screaming, and I had to ask my mum to come over on several occasions when I was at my wits end. My DD has reflux and so when that is not under control she does not nap, screams for hours and is up all night.
My suggestion would be to check out the reflux board and to ask for a trial of a ppi if you suspect reflux as then you will be able to rule it out quickly. Other symptoms are back arching, wet hiccups, nose rubbing, feeding difficulties, coughing and hoarse voice. any of that going on?
(((((((((())))))))))
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Hugs
How are things with his reflux? what meds is he on and what dose? If he's been sick and is teething that will all make reflux flare up?
Can you post his day? Is he ready for a push in A time?
Not that long ago he was doing amazing nights wasn't he? Was it sickness that changed things?
How are things with you? Are you getting a break? Are you still on meds? It is so hard to deal with the non sleeping . I have a 18 month old who has yet to STTN and is up multiple times and it is so draining but I try to remember she is still little and at 9 months your DS is still a baby.
What are you doing when he wakes at night? Can he out himself to sleep for naps and bedtime?
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ok I'm actually ready to hurt him. I HAVE to leave him to cry because its actually the safer option for him right now.
I really need help! plse??!!
Hun I think you really need to reach out for some IRL help. This forum is a God send but it really can only go so far. I know in the UK we are advised to speak with our doctor if we have feelings of hurting our LOs. Even if it is not simply a medical issue like depression the doc can normally refer mamas on to services that can give support in other ways.
Or what about speaking to your family? I think it is important that someone IRL knows you are having these thoughts of being so overwhelmed.
Please remember hun he is just a little baby. He is not using you or doing any of this to hurt you.
Thinking of you.
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Sweetie if I were you I would get some ear plugs, set up camp next to his cot (on a mattress?) and pat him or stroke him thru the bars. I'm so sorry you're going through this xxx
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before I reply to any of these I HAVE one thing to say.... 4:35am.
I patted him for half an hour and he slept 10 mins. he's not crying hard out but he's just woken his brother up. I'm sitting here crying. I'm going insane.
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I can't do this. if I have to pat him or even get.him up I'm going to do something I will regret so I've left him screaming in his cot while I sit here crying my eyes out. its 6am and I don't know what else to do. he naps fine during the day when he's at home but crappy at daycare but he's never been waking this early with nw's. I can't deal with this. when I hear him crying I feel nothing bit anger and resentment. I didn't use to feel this way but after months and months of this I think I've become numb to his awful crying.
his reflux is fine. totally controlled so its not that.
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hun, I do really know that feeling when it is 4.30am, I really do and the worry of him waking DS.
Is he teething at all??
You say naps are good - do you think he is actually getting too much day sleep? Is that possible? Or not long enough A times?
What is his routine right now?
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It could be he has hit the 2-1 early. Can you post his day? At that age I imagine all those long NWs and EWs are UT.
So you use the patting at NWs? But not for going to sleep initially? He does that independently?
Are you due a check up of your meds soon hun? I think you need to mention your feeling to a health professional to make sure you get support. Is there anyone you can contact who supported you when you were in hospital a while back? Were you left with a contact from then?
If you just got him up would he be happy enough?
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I feel your pain. It is soul destroying listening to the crying every single night. I would look at his reflux again. I know he has been miserable in the day and night. A lot of people have found this the only symptom. This is major sa age too and if you are so stressed I think this will only be exacerbating it. I agree you need to talk to a health professional if you are wanting to hurt him. He is nor doing this intentionally.
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well no i dont think hes getting too much day sleep. hes either not getting enough or hes getting the right amount but it doesnt seem to make much difference. Ive looked and he is teething a top tooth but I dosed him up with painkillers all night long. hes teethed before and that usually does the trick.
anyway yesterday was a loooooong day so it was all out of whack. he woke at 4.45am and I managed to get him back to sleep at 5.50am for 10mins so up for the day at 6am
wakeup 6am
nap 9.15 - 9.55am (daycare)
nap 1.15 - 1.50 (daycare)
bedtime 6pm (yes it was a long afternoon, he wouldnt take a 3rd nap)
usually though he will either do 2x 1.5 hour naps or a 2 hour AM and a 30min PM and it all works out.
In answer to Shiv's question yes we were having fantastic nights. for one week. then DS1 got sick and started wakinbg DS2 with his cough, then DS2 got sick and here we are again.
Its 8.30am and hes just gone down for his nap now. hes so spirited that he cannot go into bed with his eyes open. he needs to have his eyes closed (not asleep just relaxed) and into bed. I do not need to pat him to fall asleep unless hes mega OT. just to clarify, he is still awake when he goes into bed but he just has his eyes closed because he just cannot switch off. Ive tried long wind downs, short wind downs, it doesnt matter, he needs to be relaxed enough as he goes into his cot. I even talk to him as Im lowering him into his cot and I know he is still awake but dozing. Ive never had to pick him up and hold him back to sleep again
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Monster hugs hun!
You mentioned that he is a spirited wee man - could very well be the start of the 2-1. There is another momma here with a spirited wee man who made the move at 8.5 months! Spiriteds do prefer night sleep to day sleep overall so it could well be that is the case with him too.
It really sounds like there is something too the fact that he needs to be really drowsy to fall asleep for you - sounds like it could be a bit of OS? I would stick with a short WD given his temperament and just try to have a good 10-15 mins of books/walking about before starting his WD to help him relax.
What do you think?
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well our wind down is really short. I used to read just one story and then put on white noise and sing him a song (he would doze on my shoulder during the song) now its just the song and into bed. he needs white noise which is why he doesnt sleep well at daycare because they dont do that, they play soft classical music and that just does nothing for him.
for the question of his reflux meds, hes on Losec 2x a day 10mg each. he hasnt been on Ranitidine for months now
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(((HUGS)))) I gotta run but I'll read thru tmr and try to help. I know how you're feeling, my DD only recently started sttn at 2.5yo and DS is 8mo and wakes often. I've tried bw techniques, asked, begged for help, felt tired and miserable. It does get better, I promise!!
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hes so spirited that he cannot go into bed with his eyes open. he needs to have his eyes closed (not asleep just relaxed) and into bed. I do not need to pat him to fall asleep unless hes mega OT. just to clarify, he is still awake when he goes into bed but he just has his eyes closed because he just cannot switch off. Ive tried long wind downs, short wind downs, it doesnt matter, he needs to be relaxed enough as he goes into his cot. I even talk to him as Im lowering him into his cot and I know he is still awake but dozing.
Am going to be very honest and say I think this is a huge issue. I think it doesn't matter that he is still awake. If he is at that dozing, very nearly asleep point then it is very likely a prop issue. I think you need to work at getting him down more and more awake and start teaching him to do it for himself KWIM? Because I think when he wakes in the night he doesn't know how to get himself drowsy enough again to drop off and then when he wake at 4/5am he has just had enough sleep to stay awake. And if you don't want to work on that then I think at NWs your best bet would be to replicate your winddown and lift him and sing your song until he is drowsy but awake and put him back down. I think with any sleep training you have to settle NWs in the same way you work on settling intially and it could be he just is really confused.
Does that make sense? I think you need to push the independent settling for naps and bedtime and ultimately that will help with NWs. I know you say he can't go down with his eyes open but I think you need to start putting him in a bit more awake and then ssh-patting if necessary to get him to sleep then a bit more awake a few days later until you are putting him down fairly awake and he starts to do the rest himself.
What do you think?
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yes I agree with Shiv. It makes a lot of sense. Hugs hun xxx
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I have the same problem, please try to stay calm. I know I have lost it many nights and need my husband to take over or at least give me 5 minutes to collect myself. I never thought I would do this, but I have read a lot about attachment parenting and I starting letting my baby sleep next to me in bed. He is 9 months, so I am not concerned about suffocation. I keep blankets and pillows away from him.
He still wakes about every 2-3 hours but is getting better gradually. If I give him his Nuk he will go back to sleep withing 5-10 min. I stopped going to him in his crib. This has been much easier, and although not a solution, he is starting to sleep longer and go back to sleep easier.
Look for little bits of progress. He won't all of a sudden sleep through the night. But he is making progress and I am happy about that.
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I know you said you don't think he is UT but I'm wondering if on days at home when he naps well whether you could push his A times a little to get a longer day and so later BT.
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Another thing that occured to me hun looking at your EAS is that a 5am wake up after a 6pm bedtime isn't an EW. KWIM? I set bedtime at that age because both mine only ever did an 11 hour night (with NWs!) so EBT didn't work here as they didn't tack on. Does he normally tack on to his nights for you? If not it may be worth thinking about a later bedtime or else getting into the frame of mind that his day will start 10.5/11 hours after you put him to bed. I have done silly EBTs here on occasion as Rosa is being a pain with her sleep but I know she'll be up 11 hours later and I know i'm going to have to suck it up even if she is up far too early than is reasonable (for me!). EBTs don't happen too often here for that reason!
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yeah I realise that 11 hours is ok, but with about 5 NW's and only an hours worth of daysleep the day before I didnt feel it was enough :(
ok so Ive tried just putting him down for a nap like you suggested, eyes open etc and hes gone to sleep fine.
heres how yesterday went
Awake 4.35 but managed to get him back to sleep for 15 mins till 6am
wake 6am
nap 1 8.30am - 11.15am!!!!!!!
nap 2 2:15 (was watching for tired signs here) till 3.45 (I had to wake him)
bedtime 6.30pm
he woke at 8.30pm and i resettled him, then he woke at 9.30 and I thought to give him a bottle so I did and guess what.. he only drank 70mls BUT he slept through till 6am!!!!!
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ok so Ive tried just putting him down for a nap like you suggested, eyes open etc and hes gone to sleep fine.
Great news. So i would keep this up for all sleep times and see how he goes.
that was a good day. A longer day than usual obviously but fab that the naps got you through to a fairly decent bedtime and fab wake up.
With the NWs....are they discomfort? You mentioned earlier that he had some diet issues? DD2 is MPI and at the minute we are having about a million NWs and it is discomfort so I'm pedalling back on the amount of dairy she is getting and it is helping.
What is your gut feeling on his A times? My concern is the day you posted is not sustainable because the A times are short for a 9-10 month old. Especially that last one. And i noticed that first nap was really long after such a long A time (even with the 15 minute CN) so makes me think he would do well with longer A times. I probably would make sure to stick to at least 3 hours A time and in my mind start the process of moving toward 3.15 otherwise i think the NWs and EWs can continue.
Am sure you feel great after a good nights sleep.
SO after such a good night are you aiming for nap 1 about 9/9.15am?
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Oh I'm so glad you got a fab night hun. Long may it continue.
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yep he was in bed by 9:15am . his usual A time is 3 hrs 15mins but yesterday I just went on tired signs alone
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Am crossing fingers and toes for a decent nap!
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nap was nearly 3 hours long. second nap was only 30mins and still another rough night.
today hes given me a 35 min morning nap (i had to pat him to sleep and now hes woken up in a foul mood... great)
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Hun, i think the thoughts can be a tricky thing. I once said to a nurse that with all the screaming and waking everry hour when my 2 months DD was wriggling as well as I went to nappy change her, i truly wanted to smalsh her. So the nurse said I may have had attachment issues and referred to a GP. GP said I needed to get some sleep, plain and simple. Nonmeds, no anything just get sleep, baby in a separate room, monitor and that is it. I can't say I did that, as I only did it for 1 week, before Health visitor told me that babies are advised to sleep in the same room. However the point is sleep deprivation is probably the root cause of those thoughts, not necessarily other things. So night or day, family or friends need to muck in.
Another thing is the whole BW thing. It is most important to keep all safe, rather than anything else. So if it means Crying out, so be it. Some babies are more sensitive, like my DD, so that falling asleep and staying asleep is hard. They have separation anxiety, need to be held, are too wired, clingy, etc. When tired the day will get bad as well.plus all that energy rubs off and feeds the cycle. With right support for you and in turn right support for your children, this boy can blossommand become settled and content. This will pass, but right now you need physical help from people you know.
As you described your day he seemed OT, hence such short naps, but like you say it was a long day for both of you. Is there any accidental parenting you can do? Like babywearing?
Also, here in UK, if I felt like this and all the health services were not reallybreferring me, I would take my child to A&E. I woud say, look he is in pain, I don't know from what, he is like this all the time, I am going mad, please help. I know it is a long shot. Or I would try and get private care, but here in UK it is not a great option, NHS being better IMO.
Praying for you!
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Another thing is the whole BW thing. It is most important to keep all safe, rather than anything else. So if it means Crying out, so be it.
Kate what do you mean by crying out? If you're referring to crying it out then I can assure you that leaving a 9mo to CIO alone, especially when he is probably in pain, will break the bond of trust and make any separation anxiety (which is a perfectly normal developmental phase that most LOs go through) much worse and not help crying when the parent leaves the room. It will certainly not make him any happier not to mention the physical damage the stress hormone does to brain development. And I don't think mama or older brother would get any sleep during such heartbreaking crying anyway. Apologies if I have misunderstood you. Perhaps you could clarify if that is the case.
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Ali, no, you did not. Better break the bond of trust than actually phisically hurt a baby! If you ever called any helpline you would know that in case of such intense emotions the main thing is to keep safe. What this lady is saying is that she has had enough. Not a little bit enough, but a lot. She does not mention like there is a lot of help coming from outside sources and in the meantime she needs to gather her own strength. Obviously crying out is not good for the child, but sometimes it is a case of picking the least bad.
If this means that somehow I abandoned all BW principles in the eyes of everyone, than so be it.
In the meantime the medical help is needed for reflux or whatever else.
If it is a separation anxiety, I would have imagined the child to be calming down when the mum is there. But he is not. My DD had SA and she was fine provided she slept in my arms and was carried everywhere. Still cranky at times but mostly fine if I did those things. Avery seems to say that even then the child is not settled.
As for the night times, obviously getting a nanny would have been better, or a night nanny like I did for my second LO. I stil woke up for feeds and for my first but I did not have to do the shushbpat on those days. But if she can't and needs to still be concious enough during the days and nights then I really think some ideas need adjusting.
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Ok so I agree that it is best to leave the room in an instant to calm down and avoid hurting a child. Yes of course that is preferable to doing any harm. But that should be immediately followed up with requesting help from friends, family or professional services not used for anything more than short term as a strategy to avoid sleep training which is what I thought you were suggesting. I don't think this has to mean abandoning BW principles at all. Even Tracy says to step outside the room to calm yourself if needbe.
The SA I was referring to was in an earlier post where the OP said that LO cried every time she left the room.
Avery have you requested any help and explained to your family that you are at breaking point? Didn't you say he settled well for your MIL? Maybe she could help more if she knew how dire the situation has become.
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My point exactly, Ali. This is the time to get help in any form and to have zero guilt or hesitation in asking.
Praying for you!
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My point exactly, Ali. This is the time to get help in any form and to have zero guilt or hesitation in asking.
Great so we're on the same page :) glad we got that cleared up. I was just worried OP or others reading it might misunderstand as I had that we were talking about using actual CIO to solve the nw issue.
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ok, the only reason I ever walk away to leave my son to cry is if Im having those thoughts and feelings. otherwise no CIO.
My family know Im at breaking point. Ive also talked to my dad about his reflux and the pain and he still doesnt get it. however i have sent a message to my dr, ive increased the meds according to his weight and today has been really really good. I went out for the morning with DS1 and MIL babysat DS2 so that probably helped but for 2 hours he played by himself this evening, with little bits of me and DS1 coming along and having a bit of a play here and there with him.
Im giving the meds a bit of time to kick in for now and just letting be what will be. I went out last night and my dad babysat and he got all upset about how DS2 woke twice before I got home and said that the noise was aggravating and annoying in his ears and I said "well how do you think it feels for me when its 6 or 7 times a night every single night?" and he said "yes but you are the mother......" as if to say it aggravates him more because hes not the parent of the child???
so thats as about as much compassion as I can get from him.
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Ah poor ds2, that is the only noise he can make. Glad the meds seem to be helping. Have you tried ear plugs during the nw? I find it takes the edge off the stress than listening at full volume. I also find it helps to imagine what ds might be saying when he cries, like mama it hurts, or mama I'm lonely etc.just make sure you get as much rest as you can, forget the house and get in survival mode.
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I know your dad isn't being helpful from what you've said but what about your mum and your MIL?
I hope the Dr can be of help to you guys.
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Glad you could steal a couple of hours away for yourself last night! Please focus on that part and not on your father's words. Some people always grumble so as my Mum puts it, be grateful to receive the help but don't expect everyone to be smiling and happy about it. It hurts of cause and it is a shame that you could not get more support, but like KM said, survival mode. Are there any friends to lean on? Is there anyone who could help out temporarily, like say someone from the DSs nursery? Also, I think ou mentioned DS2 going to nursery. Are you back at work? If so, is there any chance of taking some time off to rest?