BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Samjheywood on May 05, 2012, 07:18:28 am
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Hi there,
My LO started sleeping through the night from around 11 weeks old without a feed (usually 7-6am). He then became ill with a bowel blockage and started waking 1/2 times per night so we were feeding him not knowing why he was waking. After 2 weeks we finally got an anwser from the Dr and treated the bowel blockage and that same night he went back to sleeping through 7-6 without the feed. Two days later he had his 16 week injections and started waking again once in the night, we tried to resettle him but nothing worked only a bottle and as he was still young we fed him.
This went on for a few weeks but every night he woke at a different time (anywhere between 2-4) so we assumed he was hungry and fed him. Around 20 weeks he started waking 2,3,4 times per night - he was starting teething and we tried resettling and this worked most times except we were still feeding him once per night.
From around 21 weeks he had a few nights where he went from 7-7 without waking for a feed so we thought we were back on track but this has only been a handful of times and still wakes once per night anytime. He is now 24 weeks old and this week he has been waking at 4am for the past 4 nights apart from last night it was 3am and wants feeding.
Do you think this has now become a habitual thing and we should try night weaning as he has shown he can go the night without wanting the feed?
He was taking 4 x 7oz bottles in the day and the 1 in the night if he woke, but as of yesterday i up'd his day bottles to 8oz and reduced his night bottle to 6oz in the hope he may start to not need the night bottle. Whats your advice?
He is also trying solids, nothing big just sampling fruit and veg purees and has been doing this from 17weeks. I have no problem keep feeding him in the night but think it might be more of a prop and dont want to make things worse for myself.
thanks
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He was taking 4 x 7oz bottles in the day and the 1 in the night if he woke, but as of yesterday i up'd his day bottles to 8oz and reduced his night bottle to 6oz in the hope he may start to not need the night bottle. Whats your advice?
That would actually be my advice.
Do you think this has now become a habitual thing and we should try night weaning as he has shown he can go the night without wanting the feed?
An habitual waking is on that you can set the clock by. His wakings don't seem that consistent. I'm no FF expert (never done it) and I will get someone who knows a bit more about it than I to come have a look for you. At 16 weeks, there's a growth spurt. If you didn't up the number of ounces in each day bottle then, he's probably been compensating by eating at night. If you can get those calories back into the day, you could well see the end of this night feed quite naturally.
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Thanks - I'll wait to hear back from you.
I didnt up the ounces at 16wks as this was around the time of his bowel blockage plus he has reflux and is on medication so is sick quite a bit after feeds so didnt want to give him too much milk in one sitting. Anyway, this is now under control and i'll see how i go on with the 8oz bottles and reducing the night one.
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Hello :)
I would keep his bottles at 8 ozs during the day and see how he does with reducing the night bottle an ounce every few nights. If you find that he isn't getting enough during the day (or he starts spitting up more with the increased volume), we can look at more frequent and smaller feeds to get more into him during the day hun.'
There are times with refluxers that we have to veer from a typical EASY to accommodate their needs ;)
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Ok great - thanks for your help. I'll give it a go.
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Let us know how it goes after a few days time :)
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Ok, an update on the night weaning.
I up'd his day bottles to 8oz and reduced his night one to 6oz.
The first night he went from 7-545am which is a massive improvement, the second night it was 7-445am still good but then the third he reverted back to 1245am had a feed then slept till 0600, then last night it was 7-0200 then slept till 0600.
I have now reduced the night bottle to 5oz. Last night was the first night of this.
I must add that i posted about his naps on the other board and was advised to cut out solids to see if that would improve his irregular naps (sleeps anywhere from 30m to 2hr 30m). I reduced the solids initially and gave baby rice as thought this would be gentler on his tummy but looks like i made things worse as he was waking at night with tummy ache and pooped straight after the bottle, loose stools, so think he is bunged up.
He hasnt pooped in the night for the last 4 nights, only first thing in the morning although it is still loose stools. I was advised to give him pears which i have for 3 days (twice a day) and still no change so yesterday i gave him lactoluse 1 dose and still no change so today i think i might give 2 doses and see what happens.
What do you think to the night wakings still, they are a bit irratic? Not sure whether it is due to tummy ache still or hunger? Also he wakes at different times every morning anywhere between 545 - 730am. Is there any way to try and get more consistency with this?
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I was advised to give him pears which i have for 3 days (twice a day) and still no change so yesterday i gave him lactoluse 1 dose and still no change so today i think i might give 2 doses and see what happens.
I advised you to go with the pears... If he is only having pears and formula, I wouldn't expect anything but loose stools hun..nothing there to firm them up so to say. Are they watery or just loose and consistent?
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Hiya,
Just loose and consistent. I did give the two lactoluse and he has had 3 poops today in total not big and still loose but I'm wondering if this may have helped clear him out?
Still woke up at 0230am again today after taking his 8oz x 4 bottles, could he still be hungry after that much do u think?
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He most certainly could still be hungry... Some babies will get up around 40 ozs a day ;)
Do you have doctors recs to give the lactulose? Just wondering as it's not a great idea to use any laxative with a baby unless you know for certain that there is an issue. If he still just went and it was loose, he isn't constipated hun.. If he was, there would have been hard bits in the loose poops.
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Oh yeah, i went to the Drs on Thursday and he gave me the lactoluse. I think things are getting back to normal as he has done a normal poop this morning, so fingers crossed.
As for the night waking, what do you recommend i do next - do i still keep reducing the ozs at night, or shall i stick at 5oz if he is still hungry? Or should i up his day bottles again to maybe 8.5oz?
any suggestions on the EW, i put him to bed at 630 last night instead of 7 and he still woke at 0555am!
thanks
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Sorry forgot to add, what shall i do about solids now? Should i start back with a few fruit/veg purees or nothing - just anxious that he will be 6mths next week?
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any suggestions on the EW, i put him to bed at 630 last night instead of 7 and he still woke at 0555am!
555am is a tough time to start the day, but this is not an EW. An EW is less than 10 hrs of night sleep... he is 11-11.5 hrs which is completely acceptable. If you want a later wake time, you need to shift his whole day to get BT later... Like 730pm... that would get you a wake time of 630/7am.
Should i start back with a few fruit/veg purees or nothing - just anxious that he will be 6mths next week?
I would give him a couple of days to see if his poops seem better then start reintroducing. Please remember that solids at this age are only for experimenting with new tastes and should never replace/reduce a milk feed. This early on, I would stick to one offering a day as well... increasing to twice in a few weeks time. And, I would stick to a breakfast offering now and intro a lunch offering next... leave the dinner time offering until closer to 8/9 months to give that tummy a chance to mature :)
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I dont really mind if he wants to get up at 555am, i just want to try and get some consistency as he seems to start the day at different times each day so it throws the whole day out. He has irregular naps anyway so i never know how long he will sleep but wonder if this is partly the fact that he never naps or eats at the same times each day, not sure just a thought? The feeds are roughly the same but naps are inconsistent.
What is your advice on the NWs, should i stick at 5oz or keep reducing, or increase the day ozs?
thanks for your advice, i am learning alot of things
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Any thoughts on the night bottles? I am stuck at 5oz as not sure whether to keep reducing?
Thanks
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I don't have any fantastic advice for you since I'm in the same situation, except we just keep being thrown off by reflux flare ups, colds, shots, etc, so that I end up giving him back a full bottle in the end.
How have the last couple of nights been going with the 5 oz bottles? I think it really depends. If, when you reduce the NF, he takes more in the day to compensate, he's going in the right direction and would continue. But, if it's not going well as it is maybe I'd keep it at 5 oz for a little while and then try a little later?
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I agree with Elise - how is he doing during the day?
If he is steady during the day, i would go ahead and reduce to 4 ozs and add an ounce to his daytime bottle (generally the first of the day)... give him a couple of days to adjust...
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The daytimes have been okish. The last few days look like this -
Saturday - 8oz, 8oz, 8oz, 8oz, plus 5oz at 0240am
Sunday - 8oz, 6.5oz, 5.5oz, 8oz, plus 5oz at 0315am (just wouldnt take anymore at the earlier feeds, maybe teething related)
Monday - 6oz, 8oz, 8oz, 8oz, plus 5oz at 0130am (the 6oz first bottle didnt want anymore, not sure why, had a NF 3hr45 earlier, but first tooth cut through gum this morning too)
Tuesday - 8oz, 8oz, 8oz, 8oz, 5oz at 0120am, then woke for another feed at 0500am and took 6oz (would of took 8oz but i stopped him) - never fed twice in a long time!
I am confused as what to do next, havent been brave enough to reduce to 4oz yet! I did read a sticky note on here about keeping the 8oz bottles at night but increase the water and reduce the formula, what do you think of that idea, is it worth a try?
I just cant understand him when he used to sleep really well and ever since 16wks he has woke pretty much every night. Should i increase the day bottles even more than 8oz do you think looking at the last few days?
thanks in advance
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I did read a sticky note on here about keeping the 8oz bottles at night but increase the water and reduce the formula, what do you think of that idea, is it worth a try?
I did that and it was going great, until he had a cold and we had to stop. I would definitely try that to be honest, because he doesn't realize right away that there's less milk, yk? So he doesn't get frustrated at night then hopefully he just ads more oz to his day.
I would also increase his day bottles to 9 oz if he drains the 8 oz.
FWIW, DS STTN from 3 to 4 months, then he had the 4 month GS and it all went away, it's like since the GS, he just can't get the calories he needs during the day, no matter how well he feeds. I'm hopeful that once he is well established on solids it will go better. Is your DS a big baby?
Also, about the night with 2 feeds, it could be a GS, is that's the case then you need to stop what you're doing, feed him as much as he needs, and once the GS is over you can start again. I know it's a pain but TBH I don't think you have a choice when it's a GS.
:-*
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My DS also STTN from 3-4months and as soon as he had his 16wk injections it all went away. He has done it a handful of times since then.
He was last weighed at 22wks and was 15lb 12oz (he is now 25wks) but is in 25th centile so probably a bit on the lower side the HV keeps telling me. He is also a refluxer so is sick a little after feeds, is on meds for this.
Yes, didnt think of a growth spurt. I'll up his night bottles back to 8oz then for a few days and try and up the day bottles. I have Dr Brown bottles and they dont go up to 9oz only 8oz!
Sounds like our LO's are very similar.
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I have Dr Brown bottles and they dont go up to 9oz only 8oz!
Yeah I have them too but I fit 9 oz in them sometimes and they haven't spilled so I think you should try it and see if it works for you?
My LO is a refluxer too! :(
Good luck
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Quick update - I just tried him on a 9oz bottle for BT, didn't leave a drop!
From tomorrow his day ones will be 9oz and we'll see how we go. Update you again in a few days. Thanks!
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Great news!
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Re: the watering down method. I am not a fan.. most babies are quite sleepy for night feeds and they settle with that nice full feeling in their belly... the watered down bottle will cause the same effect and can lead to no change in NF habits... especially if baby really isn't needing that feed. Given how much your wee man is taking in the day, I would be tempted to max his day bottles and go down to 4 ozs at night (after you try full bottles at NW in case it is a GS).
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Just done tonight's NF and he only took 6oz of an 8oz bottle so because he wasn't interested in the rest should I go to 9oz in the day and 4oz at night from tomorrow?
Thanks
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I would stay at 8 ozs in the day for a bit hun... 9 ozs is a monster bottle and his reflux might not appreciate it ;)
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A bit of an update in the hope you can advise further, things dont seem to be improving!
Since Wednesday the NW's look like this -
Wednesday - 0145am 6oz
Thursday - 0030am 8oz
Friday - 1115pm 6oz, then again at 0500am 5oz
Saturday - 0100am 6oz
A couple of the NW's he is confusing me as isnt crying just wakes up and looks round the cot all quiet. For instance last night he woke at 1230am, no crying just lay there awake (i have a video monitor), i left him until 0100am and he didnt fall back asleep so i fed him 6oz, he went back to sleep straight away, he then woke up again at 0500am, i left him again as wasnt crying and he stayed awake looking around until i went in at 0625am and fed him again a full 8oz bottle, he went back to sleep straight away for all of 10m!
Do you have any ideas what is going on, i was worried about leaving him too long as didnt want him to get OT by being up half the night! Plus yesterday daytime was a nightmare for naps, he had a 2hr12 in the AM but refused his PM nap and ended up being up until BT which i brought forward to 6pm - never refused a nap before either!
i am totally confused!
I am giving him 8.5oz bottles as thought the 9oz was too much but because he is having so many feeds at night the last few days he is taking anywhere from 5-8.5oz in his day bottles, i am worried he is starting to get his calories at night rather than all in the day.
whats your thoughts?
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My first thought would be UT? When they wake at night and just lay there. Could that be?
I also noticed that when my DS is OS, he does something like that. We went to the IL last week-end and he would stay awake forever after his NF, just chatty and all, and I really think it was OS because he was definitely not UT then...
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I agree with Elise - could well be OS hun... unable to turn his wee brain off.
Or it could be that teeting/reflux is acting up enough to wake him but not causing a lot of pain, maybe??? Being up in the night that long though, I wouldn't feed him unless he hollers for you as you could perpetuate a habitual waking... it's certainly not going to help with night weaning. If he isn't calling for you, leave him be.
What is his current EASY? How long are his A times... given that he is now just 6 months old, he should be around 2.5hrs or a touch higher depending on his personality type.
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I'll write the last 3 days of his EASY as these three nights are when he has been waking at night playing!
NF 0030 8oz
Friday -
UP 0610
E 0700 8.5oz
A 2hr26
S 0836-0907 (31m)
E 1030 8.5oz
A 2hr14m
S 1121-1330 (2hr9)
E 1515 6.5oz
A 2hr33
S 1603-1635 (32m)
E 1815 8.5oz
BT 1910
NF 1110pm
NF 0500am
Saturday -
UP 0730
E 0815 7oz
A 2hr 23m
S 0953 - 1205 (2hr12)
E 1215 5.5oz
A 2hr31
S 1436 - 1445 (9m!) Couldnt get him back to sleep. Tried again at 1600pm, wouldnt nap.
E 1530 7oz
E 1810 8.5oz
BT 1830
NF 0100am 6oz (Woke at 0000am left until 0100 as not crying)
NF 0625am 8.5oz (Woke again at 0508am left until 0625 as not crying. Fell asleep from 0640-0653)
Sunday -
UP 0653
A 1hr57 (thought would be tired from night before)
S 0850-1053 (2hr3)
E 1115 7oz
A 2hr26
S 1319-1533 (2hr14)
E 1545 8oz
E 1830 8oz
BT 1910
NF - 0000am 6oz
NW 0230, left as not crying, fell asleep at 0300
NW 0425, left as not crying, fell asleep 0500
UP 0655
I have to say i am not sure whether he is UT or not, surely he cant be yesterday as didnt nap in the afternoon! One thing i've noticed is the last week or so he is harder to settle for naps. He usually falls asleep independantly in 5-10m but is now taking 15-20m sometimes. Also, his first tooth cut through the gum 7 days ago and is bothering him slightly as i can tell during the day. I am giving him calpol at BT for this too.
He has been at 2hr15-30 A time for the last 10 days or so from advice on this board so not sure if i should increase that? He is mostly a textbook baby but has never been great at napping, its like he doesnt want to miss out on anything.
what do you think looking at my EASY?
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I think he is UT or OS as well. DS was doing 3hr A times at 6 months, so you may need to up it a bit again.
Getting harder to settle for naps can be OS or UT or OT for that matter but I don't think we're looking at OT here. OS - maybe but those long naps aren't indicating that unless your DH gets home and revs him up before bed and so he's OS for BT?
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The only thing i can think of for OS at bedtime is that he has a bath every night before bed and loves it so gets really excited, splashing everywhere and very giggly! ;D After the bath he has pjs, bottle and bed - maybe this? But he has done this pretty much since 3mths so its nothing new.
I put him down after 2hr42 A time for his nap this morning and he did 1hr30m sleep so he can do that bit extra. Will try that for a few days see what happens.
thanks - if its not one thing its another, sometimes they are so confusing haha!
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Yes, but at this age, its far more exciting than it was then, yk? Maybe try bathing at some other time of day at the beginning of A time ;)
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Ok - i just wanted to update you on my fantastic progress, so pleased!
I dont want to jinx it or anything but my LO has slept through from 7-530/6am for the last three nights! No feeds, no NW's - nothing!
No idea whats changed, possibly the fact that he hasnt had a bath before bed the last 3 nights as my DH has been working late so he might not have been to OS or maybe that his tooth is no longer bothering him as its fully come through now but whatever it is i am over the moon!
Keeping my fingers crossed that it continues! thanks for all your advice on the NW's, much appreciated :D
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Yay! So glad things are getting better. Long may it continue ;)
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Who cares why, just enjoy! Not to worry as LO will throw a curve ball at you soon enough ;)
Good job momma!