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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Jadea on August 06, 2013, 19:57:50 pm
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I'm having trouble figuring out the EASY for my one year old. A couple weeks ago he started to fight both of his naps. He was still taking them and sleeping for 1 hour each nap, but he would sit in his crib and play or whine for 30-40 min before going to sleep. Now he has gotten to where he fights both naps with a passion, and won't be persuaded to sleep at all. He was on 4 hours A time across the board, but his own fighting started pushing it back to where he's more like 4.75 hours.
Today I pushed him out to 5 hours morning A time to see how he would deal. He was fine the whole time, cheerfully playing and only showed tired signs while I was doing his nap routine. He went right to sleep without fighting, playing or whining. I was hoping that he would sleep 2 hr which would allow for another 5 hour A time and then BT, but he only slept 1 hour 15 min. Should I bump his A time up a bit more? I'm hesitant to move him to 1 nap even though it seems to be what he wants because I've heard that most babies aren't ready for just 1 nap at this age, but I don't know what else to do since he refuses to take more than 1 nap.
Yesterday's EASY
6:00 w/u (6:00 - 7:00 am played in crib refusing to go back to sleep)
10:00 - 11:00 Laid baby down for nap but he just played and refused to nap.
11:00 - 12:00 AM nap
12:00 - 6:00 A time (I laid him down at 4pm for a nap, but he refused it altogether)
6:00 BT
1:30am NW
Today's EASY so far
6:00 w/u (I want to get this moved up to 7am, but with EBT he just won't sleep in)
11:00 - 12:15 AM nap went smoothly, no fighting
Planned for today:
4:15 - 5:00pm Planning to try to get him to catnap? I doubt if he will take this nap.
BT either 6pm if he doesn't nap or 8pm if he does.
Please help me figure out if I'm on the right track or what I should try differently!! Thank you so much in advance.
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Hi,
I think you are on th right track. How did today go?
Re: nap 1 - are you capping the nap or is your LO
Waking himself?
In terms of BT, I would stick to a 13h day mac if he has both naps. By extending the longer you may find your DS gets OT which here perpetuates EW.
Hena
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HenaV thanks so much for your reply! In answer to your question, I'm not capping the first nap.
DS started tired signals at 4pm and went down for a catnap with no fuss. When I laid him down at 7:15 for bed he cried a little, but started quickly his rolling around routine for self soothing. He continued rolling trying to sleep until 7:50.
I'm starting to think he is UT, and I need to move to 1 nap.
If we have to do a catnap how long do you think is best? 30? 45? (He has also been fighting BT frequently)
Is there a good solution for extending the am nap so we can eliminate the catnap? Or is that developmental?
Below is what I'm guessing his EASY should look like ideally. Please post any opinions on tweaking it!
7am w/u
E - 8
A 7- 12
S 12 - 1:15
E 2:15
A 1:15 - 5
S 5 - 5:30?
E 5:30
A 5:30 - 8
S 8 BT
OR
W/U 7
E 8
A 7 - 12
S 12-2
E 3
A 2-7
S 7 BT
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I think you're pretty much spot on with option 1. The only think I would try is an earlier CN - prob 4.15/4.30- 5pm depending on if you Think your LO needs 30/45m. With a nap of 1h15m in the morning I'd be tempted to try 45m.
I would stick with it for about a week and see how you go. What do you reckon?
H
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DS woke up this morning at 5:30am, we did 1.5 hr wiwo till 7 am then finally got up. I don't think he would do a CN after only 3 hr A, but I will give it a shot.
Today's plan:
w/u 5:30
E
A 5:30 - 10:30
S 10:30 - 11:45 (or longer if he'll sleep longer)
E
A 11:45 - 2:45
S 2:45 - 3:30
E
A 3:30 - 6:30
S 6:30 BT
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Boo to the 5.30 start but the plan looks good. If he naps longer in the morning I'd push the CN out and consider reducing it to 30m.
Good luck!
Hx
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He slept 1.5 hrs at am nap. So I will try to get a catnap in at 3:15 till 3:45 if he will take it.
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So looking at the plan you posted earlier, he slept from 10-12noon? If that is the case, do you thinks he'll be ready for a nap 3h15m after last WU?
H
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Hello,
I am new to this and have LOTS of questions. But I'll try to curb my enthusiasm.
I seem to have the same issues as the OP.
My son is 15 months old and has been fighting his afternoon nap sometimes rolling around awake for 1.25 hours before we finally go in there an get him out. We are trying to figure out our transition and this is where we are at currently.
w/u:6:45/7
E:7:30/7:45 (Breakfast)
A:7:45-11:15am
E:11:15 (Lunch)
S:12-1:30 (he wakes up on his own)
E:2:30 (snack)
A:1:30-4:15
S: 4:15pm (putting him down hopping he'll cat nap but he likely won't)
A:5:00-9:00
E: 6:00 Dinner
S: 8:30/9pm sleep (BT)
If he doesn't take the afternoon catnap should I try putting him to bed earlier? (7pm?) I'm just worried that this means he is going to wake up super early the next morning.
Will his nap eventually get longer? with it being only 1.5 hours that's basically the length of one of his naps when he was taking 2 a day.
Any thoughts, ideas or opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Juni
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So looking at the plan you posted earlier, he slept from 10-12noon? If that is the case, do you thinks he'll be ready for a nap 3h15m after last WU?
H
He slept 10:30 - 12, then I tried for a nap at 3pm (15 minute attempt) and again at 3:45 for a half hour, he just tossed his lovies out of the crib then sat and played and or complained the rest of the time. I haven't been able to get a nap into him without at minimum 4 hours of A time. I tried again at 5pm (just to see) since my boy was acting OT and miserable, but alas no mini CN then either.
To make matters worse we had evening errands that had to be run for our vacation that's starting tomorrow, so DS didn't get to bed tonight till 7:30. Currently beating myself up over things that couldn't have been changed. :-(
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Bless you, don't beat yourself up hon, everything can be fixed, some things just take a bit longer. You could change things up. So how about trying a CN in the morning and the longer sleep in the afternoon?
So with a 5.30 WU, perhaps do something like this:
CN: 10-10.30/45
Nap: 1pm
BT: no more than 13h after WU?
This way, you perhaps will get him to nap enough to push through to the afternoon and still be tired enough to have a decent nap in the afternoon. And if the afternoon NAp is rubbish you still have the option of EBT?
What do you think?
H
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Update: After the fiasco yesterday and his 7 hour last A time I was really surprised at how well DS slept last night. He woke once to eat, and slept 10.5 hours instead of his normal 11 hours. I'm starting to wonder if it's that he's UT and needs to go to a schedule that's closer to 1 nap?
Regarding your suggestion, we inadvertently followed your advice though I hadn't read it yet. We had a hectic morning and he went down for nap late then only took a 45 min nap (on his own) so when I read your suggestion I decided to try it. Here's the results below:
w/u 6:00
E
A 6:00-11:15
S 11:15 -12:00 went to sleep very easily (is 45 min UT? After 5:15 A time?!?)
E
A 12:00 - 3:00
S 3:00 - 4:00 went to sleep easily, but only slept an hour
E
A 4:00 - 7:00
S 7:00 BT (Went to sleep easily though he was entranced by the oscillating fan at Grandma's house)
I like that he got 1:45 total nap sleep, instead of 1:15 or 1:30. Should we push harder for a long nap? Any tweaks that you'd recommend?
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The thing is if it ain't broke.....
How would you say your LO was on 2 short naps?
I think your LO is probably ready for one nap tbh, it's just getting him there. For us 45m nap was usually UT and 30m OT. I would perhaps stick with what your doing for at 4days to a week and see how things settle down. You could then look at pushing the nap out say in 15m increments every few days until you able to eliminate the 2nd nap iykwim? It maybe one one nap days (if the nap is short ie - 1.5h or less) you have to EBT.
There is a sticky at the top of this board re: what your toddlers day looks like - it might be worth you having a peek and see what others are/ were doing with their LOs at this age
The transition from 2naps to 1 can be a bit tricky bit tbh in think you're doing a great job. You know your LO better than anyone else - keep following those instincts! Got everything x'd for you x
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Definitely going to keep this schedule for at least a week or so, he slept perfectly last night. He had no wake ups from 7pm till 6am. Thank you so much for your help!!!
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Yay! That's great news. Keeping everything x'd for you :)
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HenaV, thank you so much for all your help so far, things are working much better than they were. I still need a little help if you wouldn't mind.
DS is doing better, but he is still struggling. Our EASY today is below:
last night I put DS to bed at 8pm after a 12 hour day, he was unable to sleep until almost 9pm.
W/U 8 am after 11 hours of nighttime rest with several NWs.
E
A 8:00 - 11:30
S 11:30-12:10 (capped)
E
A 11:30 - 4
S 4 - 5:30 (I laid him down at 3:30, but he didn't go to sleep till 4. No wiwo, he just laid there trying to self soothe for 30 min before he was able to knock out)
E
A 5:30 -8:45
S 8:45 BT (again I laid him down at 8pm, but spent 45 min of wiwo before he was able to sleep)
I'm planning to wake him at 7:30 tomorrow morning, so we can move back toward the 13 hour day/ 11 hour night that seems to work best for him.
The question I have is in how I should tweak his EASY. He is back to fighting the pm nap, and ending it too late which is causing him to fight BT too. He is actually taking his Am nap sooner than he was before. I'm baffled.
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I'm pleased things are going well, well done you!! I think you're having problems at BT because the afternoon nap is quite late and long for that time of day, and yes a 13h day with that much DTS is probably what's called for.
How long do you think your LO would sleep at 11.30 if you didn't cap the nap?
H
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Probably only an hour because it's early. In the past when I have pushed him out to 5 or 6 hours A time he has slept 1.5 hours or slightly less.
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What do you think to trying 1nap at 11.30 or 12noon (given you have a 8am
wU) uncapped and go for EBT if the nap Is less that 1.5h?
H
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EBT doesn't seem to have done us any favors lately. He seems to be locked in to an 11 hour night no matter when he falls asleep. He woke up this am at 7am after many NW last night.
So tomorrow I will give it a go with a 4-4.5 hour morning awake time (nap to start between 10:30 to 12 depending on w/u) but as I really don't want to do an EBT, I'm not sure what to do if the nap is short. Any suggestions?
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Good luck x
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EBT doesn't seem to have done us any favors lately. He seems to be locked in to an 11 hour night no matter when he falls asleep. He woke up this am at 7am after many NW last night. So tomorrow I will give it a go with a 4-4.5 hour morning awake time (nap to start between 10:30 to 12 depending on w/u) but as I really don't want to do an EBT, I'm not sure what to do if the nap is short. Any suggestions?
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10.30's a bit early with a 7am wU and 11h night.
If EBTs not for you IME the only other thing you can do us get a car nap in somewhere. Whatever you do, you need to stck with it to give things a chance to settle x
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Ok, I agree that the Am nap is too early for a 1 nap day. I will try for a 12:00 nap time as long as he doesn't wake before 7am. With a 1 nap schedule should I try to keep nap at the same time each day as long as w/u is between 7-8am? Should I be trying to force a 12 hour day & night? Or should I keep him on a 13 hour day / 11 hour night as he has been accustomed to?
I'm so grateful for your advice! It's so nice to have someone to consult.
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I would be consistent with your nap time do long as the nights ae good and you gave a decent WU time. I would be very careful pushing the nap too far in one go. You don't want to end up
Trying to fix an OT mess.
Re: the lenght of your day i think it's best to judge it by your nap - that is if you get a good nap at the right time of day you may well be able to push to a 13h day.
Whatever you do, you really must be consistent. I always apply the theory if if I'm all over the place how can I expect my LO not to be.
Good luck! X
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I would be consistent with your nap time do long as the nights ae good and you gave a decent WU time. I would be very careful pushing the nap too far in one go. You don't want to end upg trying to fix an OT mess
I'm a little confused here. It's 4am now, so maybe I am just tired from all the NW. (After his last NW I can't seem to get back to sleep! I must be OT and need a DT nap lol) He has had 3 bad ones tonight. What time do you think the nap should start?
EASY yesterday was:
W/u 7
E
A 7- 10:45 (laid him down at 10:30, he fought nap till 10:45)
S 10:45-11:30
E
A 11:30 - 2
S 2-4 (no idea why he needed this much DTS but I chalked it up to making up for NW)
E
A 2-8
S 8pm BT (which he fought and didn't fall asleep till 8:40)
NW: 10, 1, 4... So far...
I'm really confused because he seems UT in the way he is fighting all sleep except the Pm nap, but even after excellent DTS still having multiple NW. So I'm not sure but he may be an OT mess now? Do you think I should go ahead with a 1 nap schedule starting the nap at noon? Or at a different time of day? Something has to give, I'm so dispirited between the nap fights and the NWs.
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Breathe...... Big big ((((hugs)))). Some DTS for you is not such a bad idea hon ;)
I think your LO is OT. Certainly multiple NW are OT here. You could be stuck in an OT/UT cycle, and if he's actively teething that's not going to help things.
Right, what to do? I would suggest that you try the following:
wU: 7am (assumption on my part)
Nap: 11.30 (at the latest) uncapped
BT: 7pm (if nap is 2h or more)
EBT: 6/6.30 if you get a short nap.
Stick with it for at least 4days and sees how things settle. If you think teeth are playing a part in the sleep disturbance, meds before naps and BT may help and you may want to consider DM if you haven't already.
What do you think?
H
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I will start today. He had an EW at 6:40 this morning. So nap should be about 11ish. He's not teething at the moment. I will let you know how it goes. Thank you!!
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You're welcome, and good luck xx
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Here's our EASY for the last 4 days. Everything seems to be improving, though he did take a short nap today and is still having early morning wakings.
8/16/13
w/u 6:40
E
A 6:40- 11:00 am
S 11:00 - 12:30
E
A 12:30 - 7:30
S 7:30 BT (laid DS down at 7:00, but he fought sleep till 7:30 probably because we had just arrived at Grandma's house and he was too excited to want to sleep)
NW: 2, 5
8/17/13
w/u 6:45
E
A 6:45 - 11:15
S 11:15 - 12:55
E
A 12:52 - 7
S 7 BT (no fight! YAY!)
NW: 5am
8/18/13
w/u 6:45
E
A 6:45 - 11:15
S 11:15 - 12:55
E
A 12:55 - 7:00
S 7:00 BT
NW: 5, 6am
8/19/13
W/u 7:40 (wahoo!)
E
A 7:40 - 12:10
S 12:10 - 1:23 (1:15 nap)
I'm thinking that he wasn't ready for his nap yet today, he only slept 1 hr 15 min and he was happy and playing just fine, not grumpy like he usually is before naptime. I plan to do BT tonight at 7pm since he slept in this morning till 7:40am. He is still having early morning wakings but resettling for a nearly 12 hour night. Should I push the nap out later? What do you recommend?
Thank you!!!
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Hi!
That is an improvement, good work! I would push that nap out a tad if you're consistently getting nearly 12h nights. My only reservation looking at your day is that the afternoon is über long. It maybe the multiple NW are down to OT?
Re: pushing the nap out, I would only do it by 15m hold for 3-4days, and then by another 15m if you think your LO needs it. If the naps are still short giving you a long afternoon I would consider EBT. It might help reduce the NW?
What do you think?
H
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I will give it a go. How long of a nap should I be looking for to avoid too long of afternoon awake time? 2 hours nap or EBT?
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I would say so. The only reason why i'm suggesting it, is because a 7h afternoon is really long. Im not sure my DD would manage it consistently without getting OT and shes 25m old.
When you've managed to push the nap out and the days more balanced you'll probably be able to work on EBT only if the nap's 1.5 or under but for the moment, i think perhaps go with 2h.
Do you think OT might be the problem - hows your LO been handling the long afternoons?
H
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I think you're absolutely right. He was doing fine with them at first, but he's been getting progressively more grouchy and difficult.
He did better today after sleeping in (sort of) and with the longer morning awake he took 1:35 nap, he's such a good boy when he is rested.
Today's EASY :
NW: 3, 6am (he fought returning to sleep from 6-7am but went back to sleep just as I was about to give up)
w/u 8am
E
A 8-12:45
S 12:45- 2:20
E
A 2:20 - 7:20 (5 hour A. Is this short enough do you think? Or should I make it shorter?)
S 7:20 BT (planned)
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I think that is short enough. A few days like that and fingers xd he'll have caught up. Doesn't it make such a difference when they're sleeping properly?!!?
Good luck x
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I'm so frustrated!
After 3 days on 4:45 morning A DS was taking only 1:15hr naps and his BT and w/u were creeping earlier and earlier. He refused to sleep more than 12 hours so putting him to bed earlier to make up for the short nap was just making his day earlier.
So yesterday (after 3 days of being on the old schedule) I bumped his A time up by 15 min... he only took a 1 hour nap. 2 hours later he was so tired that I opted to try for a second nap. He went to sleep and slept another hour. Last night seemed better, he only woke up once at 2am. Unfortunately, he only slept 11 hours and then woke up and wouldn't go back to sleep!
w/u 6:00
E
A 6:00-11:00
S 11:00 - 12:00
E
A 12:00 - 2:00
S 2:00 - 3:00
E
A 3:00 - 7:00
S 7:00 BT
I cannot seem to get any extra sleep into this child! He just won't catch up. On one nap he sleeps 1:40 DTS (if I'm lucky) and 12 hours at night. On 2 naps he sleeps 2 hr DTS but only 11 hours at night. He's up again today at 6am and I'm afraid that we're going to keep creeping earlier.
Plan for today:
w/u 6am
E
A 6 - 11am
S 11 nap ... pray to God that he sleeps at least 2 hours.
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I praying! Tbh if it were me, I'd stick with it based on how things have improved. I know it doesn't feel like it when you're in the middle if the sleep deprived craziness BUT if you look at your 1st post, you will see how well things have come on.
That said, of because of the short naps you don't think what you're doing in going to worry for your LO, then you could consider set naps/BT, see link as below:
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When
It maybe something that helps you? We've not tried this as R is susceptible to OT as so pushing her too far/hard would have not worked for us, and I was lucky in that she wasn't a short napper so could work the day out iykwim? It works for lots of people though. Might be worth a look to see what you think? X
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Thanks for the info. I think set naps might be a good idea for us in the future, but I agree with you that pushing that on him now would exacerbate the OT problem. I'm going to follow your advice and see this out till we can get to a good schedule. Once we're on a comfortable schedule I think I will lock him in to that schedule and go with set naps.
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Ok, I'm ready to do set naps now I think?
I've tried to be consistent with a 5 hour schedule, but its really not working out at all. Some days he gets to 5 hours and he's falling asleep before I can even get him in bed. One day I had him in the car and he fell asleep at 4:30 A time and slept 2 hours. Other days he seems not tired at all and sleeps short UT naps after being up for 5 hours. One day he had a 45 min nap and absolutely refused to take a second, that day he didn't even seem tired!
I'm thinking that its varying on his NW, when he's well rested 5hr A isn't enough, but if he's not well rested 5 hr A is just too much! The biggest problem with his night sleep is that he won't sleep more than 12 hours at night on a one nap schedule, and no more than 11 hours at night on 2 naps. He has only broken this rule one time in the last month.
So I'm thinking that I need to push through the OT, be 100% consistent and get him used to a set schedule. The only thing is that I can't figure out when his nap should be!
It hurts my heart to see him so tired. Please help!
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I know it us heartbreaking. My DD is 25m and it still makes me upset to see her OT. I think you're doing really well pushing through the way you have been going. I know you've still had bumps along the way, but it does sound to me as though there has been some improvement?
Ok, so what have your days looked like for the past few days?
H x
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Saturday
w/u 7am
E
A 7 - 11:30 --DS fell asleep in the car after a trip to the zoo
S 11:30 - 12pm in car
S 12:05 - 1:20 at home
E
A 1:20 - 6:30
S 6:30 BT
Sunday
w/u 8:00 DS woke at 6am then fell back to sleep at 7 and slept till 8am
E
A 8:00 - 1:00
S 1:00 - 3:00
E
A 3:00 - 7:30 pm
S 7:30 pm BT
Monday
w/u 7am
E
A 7 - 12:00
S 12:00 - 12:45
E
A 12:45 - 6pm (Tried for CN, but he wouldn't even try to sleep)
S 6pm BT
Tuesday
w/u 7am -- w/u at 5am, but went back to sleep at 6 and slept till 7
E
A 7:00 - 11:30 -- boy was falling asleep on my shoulder
S 11:30 - 1pm
E
A 1pm - 6:30
S 6:30 BT
Today
w/u 5:50 -- wouldn't go back to sleep
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Tbh hon, it looks like things have been going well. If it were me, is stick with it. If you're as ring to go with the set nap and BT then how about 12noon nap and 7pm BT. I'm basing that on your average WU of 7amish.
What do you think?
H
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Day 5 after starting set naps and all is fantastic! DS has STTN 3 days in a row now, and is taking (mostly) 1:45 naps. YAY!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
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Woohoo! That's fab. I'm really pleased for you. Good work!!!! X