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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: ZacsMumme on October 13, 2013, 17:08:08 pm
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T has been sick with a virus, croup and ear infection. So he is wayyyyy of track ::)
Before this we were close to 1 nap. Ie
WU 6.30-7 (6.45 for ex)
A 4.5
Nap 11.15-1.15
BT 6
Or
nap 11.15-12.45
CN 4.15-4.40
BT 7
But I can't tell if T is ut/OT or just out of routine and in a developmental blip. His naps are broken, or 1.5 hours. He's refusing or resisting his nap (yesterday 5 hrs A then slept 1 hr then on off for 25 more mins and no CN) we have ENW...
So I guess I don't know how to get back on track. If I should just go for one nap? Pull back As or what ???
IS has taken a hit too...
Any ideas?
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Hi Sara is he still feeling unwell?
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I think he is ok now. I thought he had caught up on sleep too, but now I'm not sure. :-\
He does have 1 front tooth still about to pop (top right) and a bit snotty but he's much better now.
I swear we're in WW madness too ...
Last night was 6pm BT
NW 7 then 8.45 (both brief)
11.15-11.45 ::) I fed as he's hungry hungry hungry
Heard him at 4.45,5.45, up 6.30
Ewwww
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Hugs to you too Sara ;). T has struggled with illness a fair bit, hasn't he? Poor guy.
Are his sleep cues helpful/reliable at all?
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Hey hon,
Well for us NW in that form would be OT. What have your last couple of days looked like?
H x
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Last few days were good nights with a few ENW and 1.5 hr or less nap...we did a CN sat but not sun
Sat
WU 7
Nap 11.30-1
CN fought tooth and nail but got 4.30-5
BT 7.15
NW 8,9 maybe?
Sun
WU 6.30
Nap 11.30 would not go down sooner! Stirred 12.30,45 up at 1 ::) refused CN at 4 then 4.30 till 5pm so
BT 6
NW 7,9, 11.15-11.45 with feed stirred 4.45,5.30 up at 6.30
Monday
WU 6.30 out of cot 6.45
Nap 10.55/11 - just gone 11.10 ;)
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Sara that looks like a classic OT night to me. Poor baby being sick and not getting enough rest because of it. It is really tough when they are sick/teething and their sleep gets messed up. Then it takes days or weeks to get it all fixed up again. I wouldnt make the switch to 1 nap though until your sure he isnt teething or sick and he has had some good sleep. I would stick with EBT like you did with Zac for a few days and see what happens.
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Thanks mama_c
Ok ladies, so consensus is OT...so how do I deal with it :-\
Am I right that I should pull first A back a bit - let him sleep as long as he likes. IF it's 1.5 and before 1 ish then offer CN 3.5-4 hrs later with BT 2-2.5 after that?
What if say he does 2 hrs 11-1pm :-\ BT of 6 OR late CN?
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I think your on the right track with that schedule, does he tack on at night? If he sleeps 2 hours I would try BT at 5:30-5:45 and see what he does. M STILL goes to bed at 5:45-6 most nights.
BTW, I think I read the exact same post about Z about 2 years ago, lol. Trust yourself hun, you did very well with Z and your going to do just as well with T. :)
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Thanks Hun :-* yes I read over Zs 2-1 and he did a week of 1.5 hr naps and even a 45er with CN refusal after he had a gastro bug ::) but hen he came righto n his own;)
Ok so...he did 1hr40. I do wonder if he would have done longer though as he had acid spit up - so sure sign of teething here. :-\ so woke at 12.40 (I tried to APOP but no way - but he is still tired)
Does this look ok for rest of day
CN 4.30-4.50/5
BT 7 ???
Yes I think he usually tacks on, but...sometimes will NW more but that's bearable if it's not silly hour
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Hey Sara,
I would perhaps do BT slightly earlier - 6.30 say?
I only say that because in my mind 2h10m total DTS is not a lots with a LO being OT xx
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I would go with 7 you can always put him down sooner if you see he needs it or if he refuses the cn
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Ok so he fought me tooth and nail all arvo but was clearly tired. This is what Z did with the CN but I could APOP in the car. I can't with T due to having Z :-\ I got 4.40-5.10ish. But it's killing me to rock him ::)
He is insanely hypo - I think were in a WW, he's trying to feed himself, copy me, put things together. ATM he is climbing all over DH like a crazed puppy ::) I don't think I can handle this much spirit :( he is eating a ton too...GS?
So..I can not see in a million years him going down now (it's 6.40) but we will aim for a 2 hr A - 7.10
I guess 1/2 the problem is he isn't IS again following this croup and illness. I don't know if I should st till he has caught up - it's a catch 22! WWYD?
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Umm he is happy as a clam :-\ and wide awake. DH pd now and we are going to do WI/WO. I think to manage the OT he has to be sleeping on his own at least at BT again YK? Otherwise its like he needs us to rock/hold him but he can't settle and it creates the OT iykwim ... Wish me luck! I have tomorrow without Z so I can APOP his naps longer etc if I have too. X
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M is the same way, when he is ot he gets hyper and stays happy. At one point I realized I needed to put him down as soon as he started getting hyper.
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Lol mama_c T was like this from the moment I woke him from the CN ::)
So here is what happened.
BT 7.20 wi/WO till 8.00 ish.
NW 11 settled himself
WU 7.15 :D
I'm quite happy with his night considering. But when to go for the nap. I may have to do wi/WO for it too...
4 hrs or 4hrs15 (he was on 4.5 before getting sick and close to needing an increase then)
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Eeek not sure when to pd. I think I'll go for 4hrs15 aftr such a good night. He is. Happy ATM and I don't want him to it if I have to do wi/WO ???
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How did it go? Fwiw I would have done 4 hr 15 too.
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Hey char :-* well I actually went for 4.20 because he did a poop at 4hrs13 or so ::) but I'm really proud of him. He SS within a few mins so nap has been 11.40 or so (prob before that but that is when I checked and he was asleep)
It isn't ow 1.20 and I suspect he will wake soon.
So 6 pm BT?
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Way to go T for SSing!! (And way to go mummy for doing such a good job of STing T in the past :D - he can do this!). So nap was 11:40-1:20? If I were you, I'd aim for 10 hr of total A time in the day so I'd do BT 4 hr 40 from nap WU - so if he woke at 1:20 I'd do 6 pm. If he wakes later than 1:20 I'd do 4 hr 40 from WU. Fx night goes well for you!
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Nope he is still asleep....I thought he would wake soon when I posted. Sitting here with waiting for him to wake now ::)
Thanks char, I'll go for 4hrs40 (should I pd at 4.30 to given I'm a chance to settle as I imagine BT could be another battle)
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When he isn't OT or sick how many hrs of sleep does he average in a 24 hr period? Since he's probably going to be caught up after a great night and nap now and is likely no longer OT :D then I'd aim for a total A time of 24 hrs minus the average # of hrs he gets. So, if he averages 14 hrs of sleep in a 24 hr period, I'd aim for a total A time of 10 hrs that day - which today would be 4 hr 40 since morning A was 4 hr 20. Does that make sense? But again, that's just what I'd do as that's what seems to make the most sense to me. Feel free to disregard :).
And, if he usually takes 10 min to fall asleep for BT then yes I'd PD 10 min earlier than the A time you're going for.
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I realized in the middle of the night last night when A woke up crying and I couldn't fall back asleep what I wrote doesn't make sense and my foggy brain apparently isn't good at math :P. On 1 nap days I'd aim for less total A time than he typically needs and on 2 nap days a bit more. So if he typically sleeps 14 total hrs perhaps on 1 nap days aim for 9.5 hrs total A time if he had a good night and on 2 naps days 10.5 hrs total A time if he had a good night? Does that make more sense now?
How did the day/night end up going?
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We had a great night! So yesterday ended up
WU 7.15
A 4hrs25 (in cot at 4hrs20) Nap 11.40-21.55/2
A 4 hrs 45
BT 6.45 ish
STTN :o
WU 6.50 out of cot 7 (I woke to him quietly chatting so odours have woken earlier.)
- so look so Ike just under 9.5 hrs total A ...
Should I stick with this or push that first A to 4.5 he was on 4.5 3 wks ago and was close to needing a bump then...
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Wow, that is fantastic! After all that great sleep I too would start to worry a bit that he'd start to get UT and perhaps need a bump to keep the great sleep going, but maybe this is a good A time fit for him for right now. If it was me I think I'd stick to the same A times until he showed signs again of UTness but what does your gut say?
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I want to stick with it. But, I also know that were on the cusp of not needing the CN, so getting it is super difficult. If I do say 11.30 and he naps till just before 1 I have to squeeze a CN in, but it's really tough. The day would be like this I guess
WU 7
Nap 11.30-12.50 (say if he doesn't do 2 hrs)
CN 4.50-5.10 (any longer and I think he will fight to closer to to 3 hrs)
BT 7.30
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As you know, I totally hear your desire to move past the CN :P. It is such a hassle with some LOs who resist it!
Can you remind me - you can't do short am long pm because of Z, right? If that's the case and you think you should stick with the same A's then as far as I can see your plan looks good. Hopefully T will keep giving some good naps, though so you don't need the CN (fx for you!).
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could you try to go without the cn as long as he naps until 1pm then go for a 5:45-6 BT or is that too much A time in the afternoon?
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Char, if he isn't tired he won't go down, so CN would still be at 11.30-12 then nap at like 2.30-4 so BT would end up 8/8.30 ::) plus he often short naps for both. I do short am CN in car if he is tired he drifts off as 3 hrs. Only happens when he is teething though ::)
MC - this is what I was doing but we got the mult NW. I'm tempted to push through the OT though, what do you think?
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Gross. Pd at 11.20 settled around 11.30/35 Woke at 40 mins and I rocked back down. I 'think' this is a tooth though, the top right is erupting ATM. He didn't seem OT...could be UT. Anyway will see how much longer he stays down!
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That's too bad....
Do you think UT - would he resettle back to sleep if UT? I doubt it's OT, after such a great stretch of night sleep, nap and night sleep. Perhaps it is indeed the tooth (oh, the never ending question ;)). I hope he gives you 2 hrs....
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Nope. Woke at 1 ::) my worst nightmare. He seems ok...definitely wide awake but Zacs spiked a temp so may he e is getting sick AGAIN too ::)
When a bit it I can get him back to sleep as he stirs and is still tired but to tired enough to sleep through the cycles YK?
I just haven o idea about CN or BT. May have to just try a CN at 4.30 and if he doesn't let me do it then go for 5.545 BT?
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Ugh. The one nap that ends at 1 or a bit after truly is the worst and goodness knows I've seen that several dozen times around here :P. I agree you don't have any other choice but try the CN at 4:30 and if no go then early BT. I hope he takes the CN without too much fuss :-\.
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I think we will drive In to the city to PU DH and ill hope t naps in the car.
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1.5 hrs In the car and he still doesn't sleep ::) I'm starting to think I just don't have the energy to make this CN business work....it so much harder with Z too YK?
So...I'm wondering if it's completely mad to just go CT to 1 nap and push trough the OT with a set nap. Anyone done this? What time would be suitable if I based WU on 6.30-7? I could do 11.45 for 3 days then push to 12 and hold. EBT if it's rubbish and if not then 4hrs45 to BT?
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Honestly that's what we did. Liam did NOT like CN's refused to sleep in teh car. On occasion I would force a CN when I could by rocking him to sleep in the rocking chair to get a catch up nap. But at just shy of 13M I said enough adn went to one nap and EBT or force a CN if I could and regular BT. We went to Set nap Set BT around 14M. Worked Great. Just remember with Set nap Set BT A times go out the window.
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Thanks lovely. So what set times did you use?
He STTN again last night...5.55-6.30 and he's still asleep :-\
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that's a GREAT night. :) I hoenstly don't want to give times as mine lo could be so different than yours. does he tack on lost day sleep? Will ebt work for you? It didn't for us so that's why we went to set nap set bt. If he does tack then you may not need to go to set nap set bt? Have you looked at the stickies for set nap/set bt?
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EBT was last night so I guess yeah it works. I thought maybe set nap but EBT if nap a bust YK?
Something like
WU 6.30-7
Set nap 12-2 hopefully
A 4hrs45-5
BT 6.45/7
I do have Zs kindy run at 1 2 days a week but most times my mum can do it.
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Hey there hun! Just wanted to let you know that we went to a set nap about 2 weeks ago and so far it's mostly working. As you know my DD is an awful napper but we are getting our best naps ever over here. Many 1.5 hour naps but then she sleeps 11.5-12 hour nights (with some OT EWs which are very easily resettled but 4/7 nights she is sttn). We are doing 7am wake 12:30 nap (which may or may not be too late, I can't decide since if she is up at 6:30 she has a 6 hour A time) and a 7pm bed (6:30/45 is nap is 1.25 which often happens too). Since T is a good napper I bet what you posted would work! GL!
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EBT was last night so I guess yeah it works. I thought maybe set nap but EBT if nap a bust YK?
The point of them is that you take the guess work out so there is no EBT per say. that being said the "rules" are 15Min early if you have an EW (nights under 11hrs typically unless yours usually does more and you know it's an ew) and 30min early for BT if you get a bad nap (less than 2hrs)
For me I know Liam needs a 13hr day to get an 11hr night only in GS does he sleep more than that.So his routine now (given he's 17M) is
Wake 6/6:30 (sometimes 5:45)
Nap 11:45 (pushing to 12) 2hr (we let him sleep up to 2hrs 15min unless he's sick)
BT 7
If his nap is less than 2hrs like 1hr 20 for some reason I'll do a 6:30 BT but with the knowledge that he does NOT tack so he'd most likely be up at 5:30/5:45. But honestly even with that wake up I know what time his nap will be because it's set and it wasn't an EW because he did 11hrs. Does that make sense?
It took us a few months for him to grow into the A times of set nap/set BT. But I think I would stick with what works. If he tacks than you dn't necessarily need set nap/set BT but it might help to slowly start pushing that nap closer to 11/11:30 to eventually get to noon when he's older and than 1.
It all just depends on him and how he deals with OT. :/ I'm probably muddling things now.
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Help! He did 1hr20 so 2 sleep cycles but his top tooth is erupting so I 'think' this is the problem :-\ problem is I'm not sure!
So he slept 11.40-1.02ish ::) would you attempt a CN or just not bother and go for EBT again.
I know I m going to look at set naps, but I was not expecting this rubbish today and DH is away till sun so I have to 'try' to minimise OT best I can as I'm dealing with two boys on my own (well mum is here to help a bit)
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sorry on the run but. If he tacks do ebt. keep day to 11ish hrs.
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I would do ebt probably 5:45
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So I tried this aftr the CN was a miserable fail with me driving around from 4.20 to 5pm and he didn't sleep ::)
Then BT 5.45 and he screamed till 6.40 :o literally fell asleep mostly I n my arms but in the cot with a final whimper.
I'm thinking this could be the regression of ST rather than OT/Ut...what do you think? We're on night 4 of st. (Night 1 took 1 hr, night 2 took 15 mins, 3 10 mins) ... .??? His room is silly hot too - not helpful
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Not a great night
Asleep 6.40 ::)
NW 11.40-12.25 or so.
WU 6.45
It will be interesting to see how he naps with a not so great night. I have a feeling his long great nights are affecting his sleep? He's cranky today, and this tooth looks nasty
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Personally,I think the tooth is effecting his sleep. I think your going top have to wait for the tooth to come in before you can do anything about his sleep
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Thank Hun. I'm a little frantic (can't you tell) as I'm on my own till Sunday and feeling a little anxious. He has a temp and took a CN in the car this am (9.20-10.50 or so) so I'll go with the flow till Sunday and check in then
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It's always harder when you're on your own, isn't it. I hope the nap goes okay and the tooth speeds its way through:-\.
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Really hard being on your own with 2 LO's, btdt, and it's going to be more difficult with T teething. Good luck and lots of hugs. Fast teething vibes for T too.
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He has a double ear infection. The last antibiotics didn't work :'( he spiked a 39.6 temp ... Kill me now ::) :(
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Oh no! Hugs to you Sara. Tonight is going horribly for us here too. A woke 10 min after BT and we've had multiple lengthy NWs all night now. It's midnight and I haven't got a wink of sleep. 45 min NW followed by a bit of sleep, followed by a 30 min NW and he has now been awake for over 1 hr for yet another NW. In the past 5 hrs he's gotten about 2 hrs of sleep and spent the rest of the time mantra crying, moaning, sitting, and rolling. I've gone in several times to try to feed him and/or rock him to sleep but he only fell asleep once for 2 min :(. If this isn't his molars finally coming through (after months of wondering if that's the reason for his poor sleep) then I don't know what on earth is going on.
Sheesh.....just one thing after the next, hey?
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Poor T , he must be quite miserable with both ears infected and that tooth pushing out too. Have you tried a reclining position with him? It sometimes helps with the ear infection pain. Hugs hun, I hope he heals quickly and you get through it without too much stress.
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Thanks ladies, I feel like a big old moaner :( never seen my kids so sick. Zac and Tom. Had such high temps (40+) I almost called the ambulance 2 x in the night!
Last night my mum stayed and we all slept better too :) antibiotics are helping so I think fx come monday I'll see where we are to get back on track. ;)
Thanks M_C guess what I have I n toms room! a recliner! Lol
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You are not a big moaner at all, that's some seriously tough stuff going on! Those are pretty scary temps! I health returns to all quickly! :-\
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Thanks lovely
So I think tom needs 5 hrs A time now he is well :-\
We've done approx 4hrs45 the last two days and he's done 1hr40 min nap. He's settling on his own too again.
BT last night he took a while as was congested but tonight he didn't seem tired till 5 hrs. I'd gone for 4 hrs45 but he had a crank till 5 hrs. I'd say OT but in the past when OT he crashes YK?
With a 12 hr plus night is 1hr40/45 an ok nap? Z always did a longer nap, but his nights were more like 11.5 ???
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Great sleep T, with such a long night that would be plenty for a nap. I'm glad things are going so much better for you now.
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So glad to hear he's feeling better and settling on his own. I agree with MC, great nap after a 12 hr + night. If you think he's ready for an A increase, go for it!