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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Hayleys on December 05, 2013, 10:53:01 am
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My DD is nearly 17 months now and is usually an independent sleeper and has been since around 6 months. She has always gone to sleep well and on her own at nap time and thankfully still continues to do so. In recent months she was in the habit of falling asleep on the bottle but I had managed to stop this and she would fall asleep with me either doing WI/WO or gradual retreat (I adapted it, depending on how upset she was). However, also over the last few months she has had a cold, one after the other and I have at times had to APOP her to sleep. After each illness we have been able to go back to the sleep training though so I haven’t been so worried as we have managed to get back on track (although not for long until the next cold struck – ugh).
In recent weeks she has also had 3 molars cut (one has still not fully cut yet so I’m aware that this could still be bothering her and we are giving her meds before bed). She had a cold at the same time as the 3 teeth cutting and last week, once two had fully cut and her cold had passed, I thought I would try again to get her back to sleeping independently at bedtime. However, when I put her down she really got upset, a cry which I had not heard before. She was also standing and would not lay herself down. I used to be able to say her sleepy phrase and she would respond well to this and lay herself back down either immediately or after a few minutes or so. However for a whole hour she was standing up and crying (like I said this cry I had not heard before). I was in the room with her, standing by the door saying her sleepy phrase. Then after an hour she just laid down. I thought that she would then drift off but instead she started chatting and an hour later she was still not asleep. I actually then APOP her to sleep as I was so worried about the time and had work the next day and felt concerned that we were already getting off to a bad start in the night. After this night I haven’t attempted sleep training again, she has had a stomach bug since, but also I feel like I don’t know what is going on right now and really want to get some advice. I’m worried that she was quite affected by crying for so long (even though I was in the room) as the following nights she cried when she saw her cot just before I was about to give her a bottle. Like I said it has been over a week now and last night was the first night that she didn’t cry before her bottle so at least we have made some progress.
Our nights are quite bad at the moment too, she is waking most nights. I’m think it could be teeth related, maybe the 18 month sleep regression too, can that come on at 16 and a half months? Also I’ve noticed that she is beginning to assert herself more during the day and we have had a few tantrums so could her new cry just be part of this? If she woke in the night previously, I could always settle her with WI/WO but she has been screaming when she wakes too so I’m still APOP her back to sleep. I really want to get back on track, especially as we are staying at my in-laws over the Christmas period, but would really appreciate some advice right now. Like I said despite the problems at bedtime and during the night, nap time is fine. I lay her down, leave the room and then she falls asleep without any issue, regardless of teething or illness. She is in much more of a habit of this though, whereas bedtime has been a lot less consistent!!
Here is her EASY:
WU 6 – 6:30
S 12 pm (always sleeps for an hour and a half, usually no more than 2 hrs)
7 pm bedtime
Any ideas?
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It sounds like there is a lot going on with her atm eh? Yes the 18 month regression can start around 16/17 months for some lo's so it could be that but if she has been ill and is teething I would think that is probably the main issue. WIWO is great but it is not the best method if lo's are sick or teething tbh as then they often do just need some extra reassurance and that is fine, you can work on getting back on track once they are ok.
I was not clear - is she having any night feeds between going to bed and the morning? What AP are you using to get her back to sleep?
Her routine looks pretty good to me - if she is always doing a 2 hour nap then that is good news.
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Hi
Thank you very much for your response!
Yeah we have had a lot going on recently, she seems to be getting a cough and cold every other week right now and that combined with her molars popping up has made us have a real wobble.
The incident I referred to though when she was very upset during WI/WO or gradual retreat, was perplexing as she was over her cold and was much more herself. Three of the molars in her gum had fully cut, but actually her fourth was and still is not fully cut, so perhaps that does explain it and I tried to get back on track too soon! I certainly have never had such a response from her before when we have tried to get back on track after illness. I guess I rushed things too quickly.
The problem I have though is it is really hard to AP her to sleep. She doesn't have any other night feeds during the night, only her night time bottle and then breakfast in the morning. If she doesn't fall asleep on her night bottle then sometimes I can hold her in my arms and cuddle her to sleep, but this is more effective if she is in the early stages of illness. As soon as she starts feeling a bit better, but not perhaps fully recovered, then she finds it harder to settle on me. I think that she is so used to having her own space in her cot to settle that she finds it difficult in my arms. I have also been putting her in the pushchair and rocking her to sleep. During the last two weeks when things have been at their worst this has really worked well at getting her to sleep quickly. However, it is not the most practical of solutions and I don't really like using it, but it does seem to sooth her. I used to be able to put her in her cot and lean over and cuddle her then pat the mattress and try to encourage her to lay down. The last few times I tried this though she wasn't comforted for long by my cuddles and was patting the mattress herself, crying and not laying back down.
Do you think I should wait until her fourth molar has fully cut until I try again with a sleep training method? It's one of the top ones which hasn't fully cut. Her other top one took a long time to come through (perhaps even a month) but her bottom ones popped up really quickly! I'm just worried about her getting so used to going to sleep a different way that it will make it more tricky when I try again? Also is it usual to not have any problems at nap times, only bed time. The only thing which I can think is that nap time has been more consistent as there has not been a bottle to fall asleep on so perhaps she has got used to this.
Right now she is not ill, but does have the molar still cutting. I have noticed that the night wakes have got better, in fact last night she did not wake at all. I'm not sure if the night wakes seem better though as I have been using the pushchair to AP her to sleep and this is more effective and quicker than holding her, which is what I was doing before. It's tricky to know!
Thanks for your help with this!
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If it were me I would focus on getting her to sleep in her bed rather than the push chair. If she is still cutting a tooth then I would give meds 30 minutes before sleep time and see if that helps. I think it is fine to give her a little extra help but like you say you don't want to create habits that will be hard to break and if she is not actually sick anymore then I would start to focus on getting her to sleep in her bed.
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Hi
Just to clarify when you say you would focus on getting her to sleep in her cot, do you mean by using WI/WO right now or by just trying to settle her any way I can?
I do always give her meds 30 mins before bed but to be honest I'm not sure how much it helps her. Last night I gave her nuerofen and after 20 mins of being asleep she was awake and hard to settle. Doesn't a wake 20 mins into sleep often signal discomfort? We had another difficult night last night too with 2 other waking during the night.
I'm noticing that she is putting her fingers in her mouth a lot and she seems to be pressing on her gum where the canines are due to come in! Ugh - teething seems never ending. I just feel so unsure about when to start the sleep training again. Although her cold has now cleared she does still not quite seem herself. I have gone back to sleep training at this point in the past though and it has gone well. I just feel so hesitant due to this new cry she seems to have developed!
When I tried to do WI/WO last time she cried as soon as I put her in the cot. This is quite usual after illness so I persevered but the main difference was that she did not stop! Usually there will be points when she cries and then stops but she just did not do that. She also did not lay herself back down, like she would ususally. I have always been able to stand at the door and use my voice to calm her but I almost felt like speaking to her was making it worse this time. Well, it certainly did not help! Do you think I need to change what I'm doing? I really felt that I could not leave the room as she was so upset. Or do you think that I just need to try when I think she isn't teething, like I said though that could take ages!! I've always felt that I could judge her mantra cries well, but last time there were just not any which I could hear.
Thank you for your help!
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i think it is fine to start now but if you are worried about pain and/or teeth then how about just focusing on getting her to sleep in her cot. You can always remove the contact once she is settling better. It sounds like WIWO might be a bit much for her right now so if you need to ssh her in the cot or pat her bottom or whatever works then do it but try to get her to go down in the cot rather than the buggy. That is your first task. We can tackle this in baby steps. x
Also - for some lo's nurofen can be a bit hard on their stomach so if it is not working then I would not give it.
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Hi
Thank you!
So last night I tried to get her down for bed in her cot but unfortunately it wasn't successful. Firstly, we were running late with bedtime (this never usually happens) so she did not actually go into her cot until 7:30, instead of 7 pm. I had given her a spoon to hold while she had her meds before bed and she ended up taking this upstairs with us. She was waving it around while drinking her milk so I just let her as I knew it would create problems if I tried to cox it away from her and thought she would probably drop it. Sure enough she did but it must have fallen onto her gro bag and when I put her in the cot the spoon dropped in too. She cried initially as soon as I put her in her cot but once she saw the spoon again she calmed and started playing with it. I was sitting next to the cot (not facing her) I was surprised that she was laying down for most of the time and was even hopeful that she may just drift off to sleep. However after 40 mins she started standing up and crying. I leaned over the bars and comforted her and tried to cox her to lay down. She did at times but then was quick to stand up again. After another 30 mins I could see how tired she was and was getting very over tired now and frustrated. She then was pushing me away, not laying down and was now very upset! It was then 2 hrs past her bedtime, she was in a state so I resorted to the pushchair to calm her as I felt it was the best thing to do at the time (not in the long run I realise). She then feel asleep very quickly!
I'm wondering to be honest if perhaps it may be better for me to just sit by her cot and say her sleepy phrase if she starts crying rather than making physical contact with her. In the past, there have been times when I have been able to physically comfort her in her cot like I tried but it can be hit and miss. Also I wonder if it may also confuse her? Since a young age she has been an independent sleeper (or falling asleep on the bottle) and I think she just likes her own space, perhaps?
It has been 3 weeks now or more since she went to sleep on her own at bedtime (although she has had a stomach bug in that time also). I started to encourage her not to fall asleep on the bedtime bottle about 3 months ago. As I mentioned she has been plagued with many cough and colds which have inhibited things. We have been always been able to get back on track quite quickly after illness during this time (perhaps 3 nights of her crying more than usual). At it's best, it has never been as plain sailing like nap time though where I can lay her down, leave the room and she will just drift off in her own time. I have noticed that it usually takes her 30 mins to fall asleep after I put her in the cot and left the room. Usually she will cry towards the end of the 30 mins and I have to go in, stand by the door and say her sleepy phrase.
Since trying the sleep training after her illness, the new cry which she is doing has really thrown me. My husband and I have noticed that she can do it during the day as well if she is really upset about something but it did also start when she started to have 3 molars cut the gum. I managed to look in her mouth last night and the 4th molar has still not moved much but is coming through. The gum also looks a bit red and sore where a canine is due to come. The redness is right at the bottom of her gum though and you can see the tooth so it doesn't look like it is due to cut anytime soon.
Any ideas on how I should progress? Thanks for the tip with nuerofen, we've gone back to calpol!
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If your presence is not helping then yes I would remove yourself to outside the door and just say your sleepy phrase if she gets upset....my DS would not have settled if i was sitting next to him. If you have given meds then you can be sure she is not in pain and you are there, just not right next to her. Whatever you start, I would really try to be consistent so don't take her out and push her in the pushchair if you decide this is your approach.
It sounds like last night she was OT by bedtime so then could not settle and the spoon was also an issue. With something like that I would just say 'oh we don't take the spoon upstairs, we will leave it her until tomorrow' and just leave it.
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Yeah, I’ve done something like before when she has been taking an item to bed with her, but this time I didn’t realise that she had it in her hand until she was drinking her milk! Ugh!
In regards to settling her, what I have done in the past after illness is this: I sit by the cot, not facing her. If she starts crying, I say her sleepy phrase until she stops, she may then keep standing up or babbling but I remain quiet as long as she is not crying. After time she will then lay herself back down and drift off to sleep. This has worked really well.
Over the course of a few nights I have then started to sit by the door or if I feel I can leave the room then I do. Do you think this sounds ok, I’m thinking that this is what she is used to so perhaps I should try this first? I have never stood outside the door before and I’m not sure how she would respond to this. Perhaps this is something I could attempt if my usual method does not work?
I feel really nervous about doing it to be honest as my last attempt (a few weeks ago) went was horrible. I think you are right about her being OT at bedtime as she is not having the best of nights right now and she is missing out on some night sleep. Do you think I should let her catch up on some sleep before attempting again? She has never been very good with EBT and would often wake early if I have done this in the past. But I have noticed that if she is over tired then it does seem to work well until she has a good nights sleep. I’m tempted to AP her to sleep right now though until I feel she has caught up and then start the sleep training again. What do you think? I’m just wondering if I do it while she is OT then it may be more tricky for her to settle.
You are right, I definitely need to be consistent when I do it. Before she has always settled within an hour so it has never concerned me so much that the time is ticking on and she is loosing night sleep. Should I just keep going with it until she falls asleep then? Who knows, maybe it won’t take so long when I start again but I just want to be prepared.
Thanks for your help! Like I said I feel nervous about it right now after having that difficult experience so I really appreciate your advice and support!
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Sounds like you have a great GW plan and if it has worked in the past then it probably will again as long as you stick to it. It is really hard for me to say when to start as really you need to be ready. If you feel more comfortable APing until she is more rested you can do that, it is what makes you feel most comfortable tbh. I always think it is best for parents to start ST when they are ready and able to tackle it consistently rather than starting and not being 100% committed yk?
I totally understand how you feel as have BTDT with DS and it is really hard but for me the decision to start was harder than the actual process. Yes it was hard but not as hard as I built it up to be once had a plan and some support on here yk?
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Hi - Thank you!!
My DD has another cold now, so I haven’t been able to begin the sleep training again. I’m slightly concerned as it has been so long since she went to sleep independently at bedtime, it’s been about a month now. She is still going down fine for her nap though and falling asleep independently for this is not a problem. Do you think it will matter that so much time is passing? It’s the same with any night settling, I am AP(ing) her back to sleep at the moment. She just constantly seems to be ill right now, it’s just one cold after another! Ugh!!
The other thing is that I’m noticing that if she sleeps in the day for more than 2 hrs then it seems to affect her night sleep. The other day she slept for 2 and a half hours and was up for 2 and a half hours during the night and just could not seem to fall asleep. I’m wondering if this may be related to the long nap, obviously there is so much going on with her right now so it is hard to tell. She is 17 months now, at this age is it more usual for her day nap needing to be capped at 2 hrs?
Her EASY is this:
WU 6-6:30
S 12 pm (Will always have an hour and a half, but sometimes 2 hrs)
BT 7 pm
Right now as our nights are all over the place, she is really tired during the day. Last night was quite a good night though. She was asleep at 7:10, woke at 7:40 but quickly settled back to sleep, woke at 11 pm and again settled back to sleep quickly and then did not wake until 6:30 pm. I feel like last night was the most amount of night sleep which she has had in a long time. To be honest though I do wonder if her EASY is suitable as even when she is not teething or ill it is highly unusual for us to get through the night without any wake ups. Is there anything which you can see that immediately springs to mind in her EASY or maybe we need to rethink once she is better and going back to sleep independently at bedtime.
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Her EASY looks ok to me but if she is doing 1.5 hours then I think the day is too long, if she is doing more like 2-2.5 then I think the day length is fine. If she is a LSN child then you may need to cap at 2 hours.
At this age my DD was doing a similar day i.e. a 6am wake and a 1.5 nap but BT was more like 6.15/30pm rather than 7pm. Around 20 months her nap lengthened and we started to do a later BT.
If she can fall asleep at nap time ok then she can fall asleep at BT too so I would just keep on encouraging that. It sounds to me that she may be a little OT maybe from the illness or the shorter naps so it might be worth trying a slightly earlier BT for a night or two to see if that helps. x
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Thank you! That is very helpful information about EBT depending on her nap length, I didn’t know that! I’ll give it a go!
To be honest I’m really not sure whether she is low sleep needs or not. Up until now she has always been more inclined to do an 11 hr night instead of a 12 hr one. I’ve noticed as well that the better night she has (closest to 11 hrs), she seems more inclined to have a 2hr sleep instead of a one and a half hour one. Obviously this is not always the case but there does seem to be a pattern.
When she was going down at bedtime independently, she would always seem to take about 30 mins to fall asleep. This is with BT being set at 7 pm regardless of nap time. Does it sound like she could have been taking so long due to OT. She also would cry before drifting off too and often I would have to go into her. A few months a go she was waking early at around 5 am with an EBT of 6 pm so that’s why I stopped doing it as she didn’t seem to be tacking on sleep. I do feel a little apprehensive of EBT because of this but I think trying it at 6:30 pm would be good!
When she was younger she would always wake during the first 45 mins of her nap. This is when she was on 2 naps a day. With the help of another mod on this forum we realised that she was going down for bed OT. When I changed her EASY, the problem rectified – it made such a difference to my evenings!!
At the moment she has been waking at around the same time during her night sleep most nights. So I am wondering if OT is in the mix again. Well I think it is very likely seeing as she has not been sleeping well at night and seems more tired in the day. Like I said, in my last post, she did have a better nights sleep last night though so I’m hoping that if she can do the same over the next few nights then she can catch up. I woke her after 2 hrs of sleep when she had her nap yesterday and although she woke twice in the early evening she did fall back to sleep very quickly. I’m not sure if this was the right thing to do but like I said I have noticed that if she has a longer nap then she is more prone to having a long night wake. However, with teething in the mix then it may be hard to make this judgement call.
Does she sound like she has low sleep needs? Also just to clarify, you mentioned about encouraging her to get to sleep independently at bedtime, do you think I should still do this even if she has a cold or wait until it passes.
Thanks again!
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I'm not sure she is low sleep needs but she does sound OT. I often let DD have up to 2.5 hours if she was sick so you could try that for a day or two if you feel she needs it. With the EBT I am not suggesting you do it day after day, I just think if she has a short nap or is sick it could be a good option.
I have a feeling the settling at BT may get better if she is less OT so let's work on getting her down a bit earlier if she naps less than 2 hours. As for settling her I would think unless she is v sick or in pain that you could still follow the plan of being outside the door and reassuring her.
What do you think?
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Hi
My husband is quite ill at the moment so I really don't feel that starting the sleep training again right now is something manageable right now. I'm hoping to do so soon though, do you think that as so much time is passing it will make a huge difference? Realistically it may not be until after Christmas now.
On an other note, she has started to cry just before I give her the night bottle. This started after I had that difficult experience with her where she was crying a lot for an hour. I'm worried that this has affected her as she seems upset seeing the bottle as if she doesn't then want me to put her in her cot.
After her bath, I change her downstairs. We then go upstairs with her milk and say goodnight to her wall stickers and toys. It is quite quick and then she has her milk. The thing is it has always been like this and she has never had this reaction that's why I'm concerned that the incident I keep referring to has distressed her.
Any ideas?
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I agree about not starting sleep training if your DH is ill, I doubt another week or so will make a difference tbh.
It could be some form of SA which comes and goes and is quite common. The best thing to do is stay consistent with the bedtime approach and see what happens. You did nothing wrong in the incident you refer to, yes she cried a lot but you were there the whole time. It could be that but it could also be one of these phases that toddlers go through. There is a big sleep regression at 18 months and that could be playing a part too. hugs xx
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Thank you - that's very reassuring!!
There have been a few things which have happened over the course of the last week or so which have been quite baffling. Firstly sometimes it can take her a long time to fall asleep at bedtime. The other day it actually took her 2 hrs!! I am still AP ing her to sleep and usually it does not take longer than 30 mins. Actually over the course of the last few weeks there has been times when this has happened but then stops for a while.
Generally her night sleep is all over the place right now and in the night she can maybe only get around 9 hrs perhaps (she usually needs 11 hrs). This means that often she is tired in the morning but she lasts until her nap at 12 pm and she has a good nap length. During the last week there has been a pattern where she has been having a terrible night of perhaps only 7 hrs maybe and our routine has gone all over the place the next day but then she has had a great nights sleep and either slept through the night or just woken in the early part on the evening. However on the occassions she has had such good night sleep there have been problems with her going down for her nap. The first time, it wasn't really a problem but I noticed that she took longer to fall asleep! Today though I went to put her down at 12 and she just wasn't cuddling into me as she would usually when I pick her up. I remember someone telling me on this site that sometimes if the night is better than usual then the nap time may need to be later so I left it for another half an hour. She had been awake since 6:30 so I thought that 12:30 should be more than enough time. She settlled
on me more as I was carrying her up the stairs and she had seemed more tired than at 12. She the. Was crying as I put her in the cot. I sat next to the cot and she settled after about 20 mins.
Do you think she could have been under tired? Her nap is the only thing which is going well sleep wise right now so I really hope that does not start to go wonky too!
Any ideas?
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sounds like she is making up for lost night sleep with the nap...which is ok to a point but not when night sleep is only 7-9 hours. What have the last 2 days looked like EAS wise?
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Yes you are right I think she has! She has had a cough though and this has really affected her night sleep. I think this goes some way to explain the bad night s which we tend to have right now, but at the same time I don’t think it explains it all. Also I don’t feel that she is teething at the moment, when she wakes she isn’t crying with the scream she has been doing and it feels different at the moment.
There is a definite theme at the moment of her having a good nights sleep, followed by a bad night and then a good night etc. That’s why I’m wondering if her EAS may just need adjusting. So, I’m just trying to remember the last few days of EAS.
WU: 6:30
S: 11:30 – 3:30 ( put her down early as she was absolutely shattered from having a bad nights sleep the night before. I also did wake her after 3 hrs)
BT 7pm (feel asleep very quickly and slept through the night. Cried when I tried to give her the bottle and took a while for her to accept it).
WU: 6:30 am
S 12:30 (did not seem very tired, perhaps after the good nights sleep and feel asleep at 12:50. She was crying as I put her in the cot which is very unusual nowadays. I actually woke her at 2:25 as I was worried about her not going to sleep at bedtime. Not sure if I should have done that?).
BT 7 pm (She fell asleep quickly, only took 15 mins. However, I think a noise next door woke her after 40 min. It then took 2 hours for her to fall asleep. As I transferred her to her cot she woke again and it took another hour for her to fall asleep again. She then sleep solidly for 11:30 pm – 4:45 pm. At this point I could hear her coughing for perhaps half an hour and she then work at 7 am.
I’m going to keep a record of what happens over the next few days and I’ll let you know. Like I said, her cold has been affecting her but I also feel that something else is going on. It’s highly unusual for her to take so long to fall asleep at bed. This seems to be happening a lot recently and also long night wakes, regardless of if she is ill or not. I do feel that if she was getting a better night sleep of 11 hrs then her nap time of 12 pm would not be suitable. Do you think she may need a later naptime in the long run? Also how long should a nap usually last? I worry about her sleep too late in the day and then not going down at night.
If there are tweaks needed in her routine then it would be good to get it in place before I start the sleep training again as I do think that perhaps the problems I’ve been having may be due to her being UT or OT?
Any ideas?
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The other thing is my husband is much better now and I feel I do have more time and energy to start the sleep training again. The only thing is it is so soon to Christmas now and we are away for a few days. Do you think I should wait until after Christmas now so I can be consistent with it as while we are away I think it will be very difficult while we are staying at somebody else's house. In the past she has usually bounced back to going to sleep independently in a few days though.
Also I'm wondering if you do think that her routine needs tweaking at all if it is worth doing that first as she may respond better to the sleep training.
Any ideas?
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I would def wait until after xmas...just too many things going on at this time of year and once you start you need to be consistent.
As for the routine - IMO it is hard to see what is really going on with the variations in nap time etc. So the first day you gave her a 3 hour nap and she did a 12.5 hour day and then STTN. That is great - hard to tell if it was a catch up from before but it makes me think a 2.5-3 hour nap is ideal.
If it were me I would just set a naptime at this age. So for a 17 month old waking at 6.30am I would go for 12/12.30pm. Then BT can be adjusted slightly depending on wake up or you can just go for 7pm. It will be a lot easier to see what is going on if her routine is fairly set. What do you think?
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Hi!
Sorry I didn't explain what had happened over the last few days clearly enough. Her routine was very different to usual due to the bad nights we have been getting. So on the first day I put her down for her nap at 11:30 as she was so tired and she did have that long sleep as she was catching up due to lack of night sleep. On the second day, I tried to put her down at her usual set nap time of 12 pm but she didn't seem tired (she had had an 11 hr night) so I tried again at 12:30.
Usually we do have a set nap time of 12 pm and then a set nap time of 7 pm. Wake up time is usually between 6 and 6:30 am. Since she has transitioned to 1 nap (at around 13 months we haven't really been having good nights. Some spells have been better than others and I do think teething has played a part. At times she has been having long night wakes and now they just seem to be getting worse. Our one the other night was an epic 4 hour one (coughing was playing a part in the though).
There was a time a few months ago that I could settle her in the night with either gradual retreat or WI/WO. Sometimes it would take 5 mins other times perhaps an hour and a half but is it was a long time she would mainly be laying down and trying to drift back to sleep. Then after illness and 3 molars later we gave been having such problems.
Her night sleep has never been ideal and it has always been quite rare for her to sleep through the night. I didn't wean her from a feed in the night until she was around 14 and a half months si she would always wake for this. I thought that after doing so she would start to sleep through but unfortunately not. It's since then she has been having some long night wakes which never featured in the past.
I'm really hoping that we can get back on track after Christmas or in fact have more regular tines if her sleeping through - I'm feeling really tired now. Perhaps her routine is fine though as I have been doing what you suggested. Like I said the last few EAS days are way off what we do.
Perhaps it would be helpful for me to keep a log of our EAS with night wakes and see what you think? It may give a clearer picture.
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yes do that for 2-3 days and then I can take a look. When you feel ready to ST let's do that as that can mess up a routine i.e. it can be hard to really see what is going on if lo is not an independent sleeper x
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Hi!
Yes it makes sense that there will be a more accurate picture when she is going to sleep independently! She has actually started to sleep much better at night and there has been a big improvement. It's been hard for me to get a good look in her mouth but it looks like her last molar in the first set has come down now. I'm not completely sure if it has fully cut but it certainly has moved! So perhaps this explains the better nights!
However since she has been having more night sleep, she has started to get upset at nap time. I'm not sure if this is because the nap time is not accurate now or if this is a phase (she is still crying just before I give her the night bottle too). So I thought I'd just post how the last few days have been to see if there is anything obvious to you.
EASY
19/12/13
WU 7 am ( after a very difficult night where she perhaps only had 8 hrs sleep).
S: Went down fine for her nap at 12:20. Woke her up after a 2 hr nap at 2:20 pm, was woken did not wake naturally
BT: 7 pm (fell asleep at 7:20 pm)
20/12/13
WU 6:30 am (woke crying and upset after having an 11hr solid sleep, think she was still catching up on sleep though after some difficult nights).
S: At 12 pm she didn't seem to be tired so I left it until 12:25 pm. She was crying as I took her up the stairs and put her in the cot. Fell asleep at 12:40 the. Woke naturally and happily at 2:50 pm (2 hr 10 min sleep).
BT 7 pm (fell asleep at 7:30 pm).
21/12/13
WU: 6:05 (woke happy after a 10.5 hr solid sleep)
S: Cried when trying to take her up the stairs at 12:10. Cried in her cot but asleep by 12:20. Naturally woke at 2pm (a 1 hr 40 min sleep).
BT: 7pm (fell asleep at 7:40 pm)
Woke at 23:00. Only took 10 mins to fall back to sleep though!
22/12/13
WU 6:10 am (wasn't crying but didn't wake up chatting. She had pooed when I went into the room though)!
So usually her nap time is set at 12 pm. She has seemed tired in the morning but at around 12 is is quite awake and happily playing. I was experimenting to see if a later nap time would help but it hasn't seemed to have made a difference. She seems to be waking closer to 6 instead of 6:30 so I'm not sure of the best nap time to set at her age, she is 17 months now. Also when we were having a lot of problems during the night a while ago I started to cap her nap at 2 hrs as I thought at the time that any longer was interfering with her night sleep. I'm not sure if this was the case though. Do you think I should just let her sleep for as long as she needs now so we can get a better picture? If it nears to 3 pm then I start to worry that she won't go down for 7 pm. Although the other day she did and then slept through the night! I noticed that although she woke happily she was still very tired on this day after her nap!
Finally I just want to add that when she was going to sleep independently at bedtime she was taking about 30 mins to fall asleep, the same as now I am AP ing her to sleep. At nap times she has been settling herself in the cot and I have been in the room while she is crying.
I'm not sure what to make of her routine right now but I'm wondering if she may need a later nap time and therefore a shorter A time before bed? However her WU has started to get earlier. Do you have any ideas?
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Hi!
Just want to add that I put her down for her nap at 12:20, I decided to wait a little later again. She went down without any problems at all and fell asleep within minutes! Not sure what to make of it as her WU time and nap time was similar to yesterday really. Although she did wake last night it was only for about 10 mins so I can't see it would have make a huge difference. I'll wait and see what her nap length is like though! X
Any ideas?
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It's funny how I mentioned nap length in my last post as she actually woke after 1hr 15 mins. This is highly unusual! Could she have been UT even though she went down fine for her nap?
If you get this in time, would you still do a 7 pm bedtime?
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I would still do a 7pm BT yes, in fact I would keep BT fairly set and I would do a 12pm nap for now and keep it like that for at least a week. Then we can see if she needs a later naptime...how does that sound? Obviously if she is fussing a lot at 12pm then do 12.30pm but keep it like that for 5 days minimum x
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Hi
Thanks! I'll do that! What do you think I should do for nap length though? Should I leave her to sleep for as long as she needs and not cap it, only wake her if it gets to the 3 hr mark?
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I would start with that seeing as she is only 17 months...unless you know she has always been less than average sleep needs? I must admit neither of mine did 3 hour naps, DS we capped at 2 and DD at 2.5 but 3 hours is v common when they first go to 1 nap x
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As a baby her sleep A times were always average and she fitted in really well to the recommended baby whisperer A times. Then around a year she seemed to be needing a longer A time before her morning nap and since we have set the nap, I've no idea what her sleep needs are really. I'll let her sleep for as long as she needs and then post back with how it has all gone. She will only do a 3 hour sleep if her nights have been awful! At the moment the nights seem to be going quite well, considering how it has been so I think she will be waking well before the 3 hr mark!
Thanks!!
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good luck!
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Thanks!
I’m pleased to say that my DD is continuing to sleep much better now at night. As soon as her last molar from her first set was through it made a huge difference to her night sleep. She still may wake perhaps once in the night, but very quickly settles, whereas before she would be extremely upset and she may take a few hours to fall back to sleep.
We’ve been staying at relatives over the Christmas break and I have been AP ing bedtime and any night wakes. Nap time can be an issue right now though, she’ll either go down without any problem or will be crying and pushing me away as I carry her up the stairs. It has been like this for a few weeks now and seemed to start as the amount of night sleep she was getting increased. At first I was thinking that her nap time may need to be later but now I’m not so sure as when she does go down well she may not appear very tired before I take her up the stairs but as soon as she is in her cot she does fall asleep very quickly. Her EASY has still been this:
WU: 6 – 6:30 (usually around 6:30).
S: 12 pm (nap length can vary between an hour and a half to 2 and a half hours).
BT 7 pm
I’m going to start the sleep training again tonight and settle her in her cot for any night wakes also. I feel it is the right time to start now. I have noticed that she has a canine starting to cut her gum but I can only see the tiniest piece of a tooth right now and it doesn’t seem to be affecting her night sleep, so I’ll give her meds before bedtime. I’m really hoping that we can just get a spell of her teeth not troubling her so we can get back on track with her going to bed independently again. I’m not sure how much of an problem this canine will be though!
I’m going to keep a log of how her EASY from now on as she is still not sleeping through the entire night on her own. There always seems to be a wake at some point in the night.
On a side note, I’m wanting to start to give her milk in a sippy cup at night now instead of a bottle. Do you think it is an appropriate age to do this, she is 17 and a half months? My only concern is although she isn’t dependent on the bottle to fall asleep, it does relax and comfort her so I am aware that she may find it difficult to suddenly not have the milk in a cup instead of a bottle. Is this something you think I could do after she is sleeping independently again. I’m just thinking it may be best to tackle one thing at a time?
Thanks again!
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Great to hear things have improved :)
Her routine looks good to me so I would just stick with it for a little while unless you hit major nap issues.
As for the sippy, she is def at the age for getting rid of the bottle. I would do it as and when you feel comfortable so maybe focus on the ST first and then focus on that. xx
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Thanks!
So, I’ve started the sleep training and actually it has gone well. It has been 3 nights now and she hasn’t been distressed like before, so I’m pleased with the progress we have been making. I think it has shown me that it just wasn’t the right time when I tried before and her molar tooth must have been troubling her much more than I thought. There has been such a difference in her night sleep now that her molars are through! She also has been going down fine for her nap at 12 pm so I will stick to that for now as you’ve suggested. The only thing is that she has a temperature this morning so I don’t think I’ll be able to continue with the sleep training tonight but will continue when she is better.
I’m feeling much better about things and it’s good to see that she can settle back to sleeping independently, despite her not doing it at bedtime for possibly a few months. I am still sitting by the cot, but plan to move out of the room when the time is right. I’ve always been able to do this before so just hope for the same to happen again.
If she is well at the weekend I think I’ll try to give her the night milk in a sippy cup instead of a bottle. Is it a question of just offering it to her in the cup? I’m thinking that she will probably not take as much milk and may get upset. Just wondering if you have had any experience with this and how it went? I’m aware that she does have a canine cutting the gum now and I’m hoping that this doesn’t affect the progress we have been making too much but I’ll just have to wait and see. The fact that she has a temperature may be tooth related but she has never had a temperature whilst teething before.
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glad to hear about the sleep improving :)
Re the cup, I just switched at 15 months with DD and offered it in her cup rather than bottle. She was not that keen but we stuck with it and after about a week she was absolutely fine. I would not worry if she does not take much for a day or two and if she is upset then again, give it a couple of days and see. Good luck x
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Hi
Just to recap as it has been a while since I last posted. My little girl is nearly 19 months now. Once her molars came through followed quickly by 1 canine she has been so much better sleeping at night (I don’t want to speak too soon but we have not have a long night wake for a good few weeks now)! I think when she does this it is a real sign that she is teething as once her teeth were through then she has generally managed to start sleeping through the night. She has been an independent sleeper since around 6 months. Nap time has always gone well. I have been consistent at putting her down while she is awake/teething or ill and I can usually leave the room without any issues. Her EASY currently is:
WU 6-6:30
S: 12 pm (usually between 1 and a half to 2 hrs) I have been capping at 2 hrs.
BT 7pm
However, bedtime has always been a trickier, this has mainly been due to her falling asleep on the bottle in the past and me not putting her down when she is awake. There was a time around 4 months ago when I was able to stop her falling asleep on the bottle and start sleep training her to fall independently at night time. This went well and for a few weeks she was going down fine but sometimes I would have to go back into the room, it wasn’t a big deal (but not as successful as nap time). I felt we were making good progress though but then since September she has had cold after cold and really struggled with those teeth which have come through. It has really hindered the bedtime sleep training and I have done a lot of AP (ing) her to sleep at bedtime just to get through either illness or teething. What I have been doing is actually putting her in the push chair and rocking her to sleep. This really helped when she was teething and soothed her but of course I want to get out of this bad habit now but I’m having difficulty and I’m not sure what is going on.
Last week I started the sleep training again. I put her down she cried and I sat by the cot and said her sleepy phrase. She settled after about 40 mins and she didn’t get extremely distressed – a great start to day one, I thought! The next night the same thing happened with perhaps less crying. However on night 3 although she settled quickly and was lying down trying to fall asleep she just could not sleep. This went on for an hour and a 45 mins. She was mainly laying down, not crying but just rolling around trying to settle. I was still in the room by the cot at this point but I had been on the previous nights and she had fallen asleep without a problem. My plan was to start moving out of the room over the next few days which I have done in the past and it has always been successful. So as an hour and a 45 mins had past I was getting anxious about her becoming OT and I ended up taking her out of the cot and AP (ing) her to sleep. I then tried the sleep training again the next night and again this happened, after an hour and a half she could not fall asleep and she started to bang her head on the wooden cot. She wasn’t crying but I was worried that she would hurt herself so again I AP (ed) her to sleep. I haven’t tried the sleep training since as I have felt so perplexed as to what is going on. When we were struggling so much over Christmas with her teething, she did sometimes take an hour or more to fall asleep in the push chair and I put this down to her teething. Right now she is happy and settled in the day and is generally sleeping well at night and I can’t see any obvious teething signs. She won’t let me look in her mouth though so her gum may be swollen but I’m unsure. I am certain that she will get those 3 canines soon though so teeth could be in the mix.
The other thing is last week, I had problems putting her down at nap time (again this sometimes was happening when she was teething around Christmas). Although it was worse this time as before she was crying but would settle around 20 mins while I sat by her cot but this time, like bedtime, she just could not fall asleep. It got to 1 pm and I was so worried about her not getting a nap, I took her out for a drive to fall asleep. The strange thing is, my sister has her 2 days a week when I am at work. She has never had a problem putting her down for a nap and even last week after I had these problems she settled fine for her. Over the weekend my husband put her down and again she settled fine for her nap. I will try myself tomorrow but it does seem that she is less likely to sleep for me. In the last month or so she has started to walk everywhere and I have noticed that she has been more mumsy than before so I don’t know if SA is playing a part in this but surely it wouldn’t stop her from falling asleep? I would have thought that teething may though? Also I do really want to continue with the sleep training but what do I do if so much time has passed and she still isn’t asleep? Also I’m worried if she starts head banging then she will hurt herself.
Any ideas?
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it does sound like teeth to me - have you tried meds at all?
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Hi Becky
Thank you. You were right, she is definitely teething! The long night wakes are back! I was able to look in her mouth and it seems as if two canines are beginning to cut the gum.
We do give her meds, and she is back on the calpol now. I’m not sure if it completely takes the pain and discomfort away to be honest. I’m going to try to start to give it to her when she wakes during the night as well, usually we just give it to her before she goes to bed. I’m hoping it may help her to get back to sleep quicker as she can be awake for hours!
I don’t think it is the right time to start sleep training again at the moment. I don’t feel comfortable doing it when I know she has canines cutting. I’d prefer to wait until I can see that her gums are not sore and the point of the teeth are through. Of course there is a part of me that is panicking a bit as I’m thinking about how much time has past since she last went to sleep independently at bed time though. It just seem that when she is teething she can’t fall asleep on her own, or at least not when I put her down (she is still going down fine for my sister at nap time and at the weekend I’m going to get my husband to try to put her down for her nap as that was fine last weekend). Do you think it’s ok just to wait for a while until starting the sleep training again though?
I’ve been able to stop the bed time bottle now and she has her milk in a cup so that is great and in future should prevent her from falling asleep before I put her in her cot.
Also, I’ve been contemplating about giving her a lovely as she doesn’t have anything to go to bed with. In the past there were a few occasions when I gave a teddy bear just before she went down for her nap and she was fine with it and still went to sleep independently. At what point should I do that? Currently I am AP(ing) her to sleep so I could start to give her something and then just continue with it at the start of the sleep training, do you think this could hinder the sleep training though? I’m just worried that if I give her a teddy or something then it may make her stay awake for longer as she is not used to it or she may wake early in the morning and again start playing with it instead of getting herself back to sleep.
What do you think?
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mine started off with a muslin as a lovey so not exciting at all, I am such a huge fan of a lovey. I would def give her something.
Re the ST and teeth, I think you should do what feels right to you otherwise you will find it hard to be consistent. If you want to AP a but now then do.
Also, just a tip but nurofen worked much better for teeth with my two than calpol. x
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Thanks Becky
My little girl will be 20 months next week now. It's been a while since I responded as we've in quite a teething mess and I've just chosen to ride out the long night wakes we've been having and AP her to sleep until her canines are through. I'm planning to hopefully get back on track afterward they are through. She is still going down fine for her naps but it is just bedtime which we have been struggling with and any night wakes.
The night wakes have not been that bad for the last week and I can see that the last of her two canines are on the way down (still very early stages though), but I don't think it is causing her too much distress at the moment, although it's hard to tell.
I just wanted to run my EASY by you as over the last few days she has been nearly sleeping through the night but waking early, at around 4:30 or 5 am (although going back to sleep an hour later for an additional an hour of sleep). Teeth could be playing a part in this early wake but our EASY has been the same for months and months now and I'm actually wondering if her nap may need to be a bit later now. A while back we move her nap from 11:30 - 12 pm and this seemed to eliminate the early 5 am wake up we were having at the time so I'm just wondering if we are in similar territory. This is the EASY we have been working with:
E WU 6- 6:30
S 12 pm (would sleep between 1 and a half to 2 hrs but I would wake her up if she was asleep after 2 hrs).
BT 7 pm
At the moment even if she does have a long wake during the night then she does seem to still be waking closer to 6 am (previously it was closer to 6:30, possibly 6:40). The last two nights she has not had any night wakes but has had these early wakes which seem out of the blue.
Also she has been having a few 1 hr 30 min naps and they would usually be longer than this so I'm wondering if she could perhaps be a little under tired when putting her down. I've also noticed that she has been taking a bit longer to fall asleep for her nap. I realise it may be hard to know as she is teething and this could be a major contributing factor but I just thought I'd run her EASY by you as you may know if it is age appropriate.
Any ideas?
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At this age I would def move the nap to 12.30pm and keep it set there..that is a really normal time for her age...
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Thanks Becky - I shall do that.
I'm also wondering about nap length. Right now I don't let her sleep for more than 2 hrs. Is this nap length still age appropriate. I've noticed that if she does an hour and a half nap then she seems more ready for bed at 7 pm. Her sleep needs have always been average really.
Before her canines came in and she was sleeping through the night she was doing a 1 hr min nap (waking naturally) and sleeping through the night.
Yesterday my sister was looking after her and actually put her down for her nap at 12:30 pm. She woke after 1 hr 30 mins naturally (however I'm not sure if a noise prompted the wake). She then was fine in the afternoon and went to bed very easily at 7 pm. She actually slept through the night which is rare at the moment but I did hear her stir at 11 pm and then get herself back off to sleep. Then she woke at 6:15 pm.
So the later nap may have already made a difference but just wondering about the nap length? Any ideas?
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That meant to read that she was doing a 1 hr 45 min nap before we started having canine problems over the last month or so.
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Both mine were doing 2 hours at 20 months and they are average and average-low sleep needs so I would say keep 2 hours if she needs it but if you notice BT resistance and/or night troubles then by all means cap at 1.5. They are all different, it can take a bit of trial and error to work out what to do sometimes. x
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Thank you Becky! I'll keep it as it is then and just move her nap time to 12:30 pm. Hopefully her top canines will be down in the next few weeks so I can start the sleep training at bedtime again. Not that I'm looking forward to it but I am keen to get back on track soon.
I'm sure I'll be back for your great advice and support!
x
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Hi Becky
So it wasn't that long ago since I last posted but just to remind you that my DD is 20 and a half months now. As we were having early wakes, I moved her nap from 12:00 to 12:30. This has helped and she has generally been waking at around 6:10 am instead of 5:30 am which she was doing. I am still capping her nap at 2 hrs. Since changing the nap time I am having to wake her up from a deep sleep and she would certainly sleep for longer if she could. However at bedtime, I am noticing that she is taking longer to fall asleep. I am still AP (ing) her to sleep at the moment but generally it is taking about 45 mins and she seems frustrated. However she has been sleeping through the night most times but this morning she woke again at 5:30 am.
I'm just wondering if you think this may all be a sign that I need to cap her nap to 1 and a half hours or even change her nap time again? Her top canines are making an appearance now but she is quite settled and I don't feel this is having a huge impact. I'd like to try to get her routine sorted before starting the sleep training again with her if possible, but I'm just wondering your thoughts on if you think her nap length is affecting things. I'm just a little perplex as she is so hard to wake from her nap yet not falling asleep easily at BT.
Also the clocks are due to move forward an hour at the weekend so I'm wondering if I should just keep things as they are for now until she adjusts to that?
This is the EASY we currently have:
WU 6 am (can sometimes be earlier but generally just after 6 since the nap was moved later)
S: 12:30 (capped at 2hrs, very hard to wake usually)
BT 7pm (not unusual for her to take time to fall asleep, even 30 mins sometimes, but now taking longer and can be up to 45 mins)
So as you can see as it is taking her longer to fall asleep at night and then waking early she is not having an 11 hr night which is usually the most I can get out of her.
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My thoughts would be either...
1. canines - they can be quite brutal...
or
2. Developmental - we go through patches where DD wakes early or chats before bed and then things go back to how they were again..
or
2. the nap needs capping. 4.5 hours after a 2 hour nap is quite short.
what do you think?
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Hi
So teeth are in the mix and she has just come down with a cold so these factors could well be playing a part. Usually with teeth we have long night wakes though which thankfully we are not having at the moment. Her bottom canines are through and although the top ones have cut the gum they are only a quarter of the way down.
It's just so hard to know if this is what is impacting her early wake or if the nap does need capping. Her Easy at the moment is: Could the length of the nap be taking away from her night as now on a good night she is only having about a 10.5 hr sleep, sometimes less.
WU 6 (lately sometimes a bit before)
S 12:30 (capped at 2 hrs)
BT 7 pm (usually falls asleep at 7:30, I am still rocking her to sleep)
You mentioned that in your last post that 4.5 hrs is quite a short A time before bed. She will be 21 months next week, is it quite soon for her to be on a 1 hr 30 min nap then? I'm not sure how we would lengthen the A time before bed otherwise. In reality it also takes her about 10 mins to fall asleep for her nap so her A time after a two hr sleep is a bit less than 4.5 hrs.
Before bedtime she does yawn but I wouldn't say she seems extremely tired, but then sometimes she can appear not to be tired when she is. What do you think? Shall I just keep things as they are for now?
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If she is teething and has a cold I would leave things as they are for now. Long term I would aim to push the nap to 1pm so hopefully that will help bring them am wake time a bit later and then we will have to see how she goes as to whether you need to start capping the nap to 1.5 hours..what do you think?
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Hi Becky
Yes that sounds like a good plan!
Yesterday it was very difficult to get her down for a nap, she would not let me pick her up! In fact I ended up taking her out in the car so she fell asleep and then transferred her to her to the cot as it was so hard. At bedtime it was very similar. She would not sit on my lap to have her milk and insisted on wanting to continue playing with her toys. When I took her upstairs she struggled to get down off my lap and not have a bedtime story which is highly unusual! She did actually fall asleep 30 mins later after AP (ing) her to sleep though so I do think that she was tired (I had also given her calpol 30 mins before bedtime so it should have started working). I think it could be teeth playing a part in all of this as well as her cold as there were little things yesterday like creating a lot more when having her nappy changed. Usually when she is teething this is always more of a struggle. There is some doubt in my mind though but I guess time will tell and I’ll see how it goes for the next few days.
Last night she did sleep through the night but I heard her getting herself back off to sleep on and off for about half an hour at around 12:30 pm. I then heard her again at 5:15 am when she did one cry out and then everything went quite and it seemed she went back to sleep until 6:10 am. My sister had her today while I have been at work and she takes her to a playgroup in the morning. She said that she fell asleep in the pushchair on the way there for about 10 mins then she woke her but still had a 2 hr sleep at 12:30 pm. Could teeth be playing a part in all the nap time and bedtime issues we are having or perhaps this is a sign that her routine needs changing?
Just wondering also, what age is usual for toddlers to have there nap moved to 1 pm then? Are you thinking that this may be something to do soon or in the next few months when she is about 2 years old?
Many thanks for your input – so much appreciated!!
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teeth could def be playing a part, it sounds very 'toothy' to me with the nap problems but being tired still.
DD moved to a 1pm nap at 26 months but yes anytime around 2.
Good luck with the teeth, you can try a DF meds around 2am if you find her nights disturbed.
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Thanks Becky!
I think I’m just going to keep things as they are at the moment then as teeth are certainly troubling her. I’ll give it some time for the canines to come down some more and then see how things are.
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So my DD is 21 and a half months now and she is still teething her top two canines (the bottom 2 are now completely through). The top ones have cut the gum too but seem to be taking forever to come down! Ugh!! Since they cut the gum her nights have greatly improved (we were consistently getting at least 2 hr night wakes before and lots of crying with the pain!). However, we are still having a few difficulties. This is our current EASY:
WU 6 (ish)
S 12:30 (capped at 2 hrs)
BT 7 pm
So at the moment we are getting some night wakes. This may be for a few nights and then she may not wake for a couple of weeks at a time. I am finding that she is only getting roughly a 10 and a half hour night though. She may take time to fall asleep at bedtime and this is usually around the 7:30 pm mark or she may wake just before 6 am if she has fallen asleep quicker at BT.. I am also noticing that she can be stirring and cry out around 4:30 am or 5 am but get herself back to sleep. Teeth could well be affecting all of this.
My dilemma is a couple of things really. I am still AP (ing) her to sleep at her nap and bedtime. This is certainly a habit for her now as it has been going on for months and I do want to start using GW again, which is my preferred method and has generally always worked well in the past. She is actually going to sleep independently at nap time for my husband and sister who do this for about half of the week while I am at work or it is the weekend. They just put her down in her cot, leave the room and she will fall asleep without a problem. So I know she can do it, but will really protest nowadays if I attempt it. A bad habit has certainly formed between us and has steamed from days when she was in a lot of pain and I rocked her to sleep. As I do the same at BT I think she just expects me to do this now, but know s that it is different with my sister and husband and accepts being put in her cot by them. Although not ideal, it has been fine for me up until now as I can see that she is struggling with her teeth and I’ve felt that I would break this habit when I can see the time is right and I can be consistent.
The problem I’m debating in my mind is, is it the best time right to make those changes right now or not? I do feel I could tackle nap time. She will get upset but she is definitely tired at that time of day and I think she would fall asleep in a reasonable amount of time. However, BT feels different as she tends to take time to fall asleep and doesn’t seem extremely tired at 7 pm either. I think it would be much more traumatic for us both and I’m not sure if her EASY is right or if her teeth are affecting this?
In the past, I have attempted to get back on track too early while I know she is still teething and it has resulted in a lot of distress. However, when I have waited for teething to ease she has been far more accepting of the situation. Also when teeth are playing a part she may lay down in her bed without much protest after a few nights, but then be laying there for ages before actually falling asleep. It can get to as late as 9 pm and she still is not asleep so I have AP (ed) her to sleep anyways. So it just seems like a lot of upset when I am AP (ing) her to sleep anyway. As she can no longer fall asleep in my arms, I rock her to sleep in the pushchair.
A part of me is thinking to maybe just give it a few more weeks for these canines to finally come down but then again perhaps there will be something else going on then? I’m dreading the 2 year molars but it may be that we have a bit of a break from teeth before then which could be an ideal time to get back on track. I’m also wondering if I should start using GW at the same time for naps and BT or if it’s best to just start putting her down independently at nap time first. I’ve always been able to put her down at nap time without an issue but BT has been different due to her failing asleep on the bottle a lot in the past. Finally, what should I do if she isn’t crying but just cannot fall asleep? Just stick with it, even though it is eating greatly into her night time?
Sorry to write such an essay, just wondering what you think? I realise that there isn’t a perfect time for all of this, but just thinking that there may be things which I could to make it all a bit easier.
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Is it possible for your DH to put her down at night for a few nights? If she settles ok for him at nap time that might help you to see what time she is falling asleep with him i.e. if it is taking a while with him too then it may be more routine/developmental.
I think the fact she settles ok at nap time for your sister and DH says that she is not in 'that' much pain from the teeth. Like you say she expects different ways of being settled with you and that is something you might want to address but you need to be ready. If you want to wait until her canines are all through there is nothing wrong with that.
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Hi Becky!
Thank you!
Bedtime has always been an issue for us really, but not nap time. There have been times inbetween teething where she has gone to sleep independently at BT, but it’s never been as straight forward as nap time. This is because she was consistently falling asleep on the bottle and it made things very tricky whereas nap time I have always been able to regularly put her down awake in her cot. If there were any issues at nap time in the past, I was able comfortably deal with them using GW.
As bedtime has never been as consistent and she has not gone to sleep independently then for months, I’m not sure if she will go down easily for my husband then like she does for her nap. BT is something I always do and putting her in her cot at this time is not part of the routine (in her mind) so I think she won’t accept it readily from him. I’m thinking when I’m ready I need to do the sleep training and once she is going to sleep independently again then my husband can step in and then she will go to bed fine for him.
When I went back to work she was going down for me without an issue for her nap. I was able to just show him and my sister what to do and there were no issues with nap time whatsoever. About a month ago though (when she was in a lot of pain with her teeth) she did start head banging or mildly protesting when they put her down for her nap. However, they were both able to deal with this without taking her out of the cot, but during this time if I even tried to carry her up the stairs for her nap she was hysterical in my arms – hence the APOP and now the habit which has formed.
She certainly is not in the pain like she was, perhaps some discomfort though but really nothing like before. I think I will give it a bit longer before starting sleep training again as I can tell that she is not completely free from discomfort and like you said I need to do this when the time is right for me (thank you!)
The last few days though BT has not gone well. The other day she took an hour and 15 mins to fall asleep and also woke at 5:45 am the next morning. Last night it took 40 mins for her to fall asleep and again she woke at 5:45. I just don’t know what think about this really. When she was going to sleep at bedtime independently it was quite usual for her to sometimes take 20 – 30 mins until she fell asleep, but she didn’t wake early like this and was maintaining an 11 hr night. Right now I can’t remember the last time she did this. We have certainly been having these issues for a couple of months now. During this time there does seem to be a spell of her waking up in the morning later and bedtime taking about 30 mins, but then it changes back to her taking ages to fall asleep and still waking early. Obviously she has been teething but I know she is not in extreme pain now. Both of the bottom canines are through and the top ones about half way so not sure how much this is troubling her. We are waking her after a 2 hr nap (not waking on her own) which she is falling asleep very quickly for. This is either when my husband or sister are putting her down or I am APOP ing her. I am starting to wonder if it could be her routine now but so unsure. She is just about 21 and a half months and her sleep needs have always been average –low really (hard to judge though). Then again, could this be developmental?
Any ideas?
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what does her day look like for the last 2 days?
have you tried a dream feed meds around 2/3am for the teeth? Sorry if I have already asked you that!
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Hi Becky!
I think I might need to have to just see how things continue to go as the last few nights she has been going to bed a lot better, although still waking early unfortunately. I managed to look in her mouth and it seems one of her canines has moved further down. Therefore, I really think teeth are playing a part in all of this and perhaps I should just keep things as they are and reasses one they are all fully down. Gosh teething seems never ending!!!
I've never tried a dream meds feed and never did dream feeds when she was a baby so quite apprehensive about the thought of it. What does it involve. I do think that it's possible that teeth are contributing to the early wake.
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I have never done it as DD is such a light sleeper but you can either lift them or just raise their head and pop the syringe in...does sound like teeth issues are at play. Hugs!
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Hi Becky
I hope you are well. I notice that you are currently not a mod on the forum, should I start a new post? We are currently having quite a few problems and I'm really not sure the best way to handle things so looking for some advice.
x
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I'm still happy to help if I can but it might be best to start a new thread so you get the most 'new' support x
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Hi Becky
I'll start a new post then. Thank you do much for all of the advice and support you have given me. It's all been very much appreciated!!!
x