BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: mary12 on June 18, 2014, 10:39:29 am
-
Helllo
My baby is a wake the last weeks at 6 o clock, i leave her in her room en she stays til 7, she is not sleeping.
At 7, I give her her feed, she sleep then in my bed 40 minutes. We go out of bed at 7.45. Sometimes she does not sleep after her bottle.
I did make her a wake time longer, before i put her to put every 2 hours, this because she only sleeps 3x 40 minutes a day.
But now she only sleeps 2x 40 minutes. I need to put her at the end of the day again in bed otherwise she only gets 80 minutes a sleep a day.
So what can i do. I dont know what i am doing wrong can somebody help me.
schedule...
A wake at six en the ik give her bottle a 7 en she sleeps for 40 minutes. sometimes she stays a wake
10 am sleeps for 40 minutes of less!
then i wait 3 hours or 2,30 en put her again in bed. Again she sleep 40 minutes, if i make here wake time even longer it means she has not sleep at all, and we have no time to put her in bed. How do people have a long a wake time in the morning en stil have time for a second nap, espacialy if your baby sleep long then 40 minutes. i dont understand this.
So at 13.00 again 40 minutes, she canīt last til 7, that is here bedtime. So i put her again at 16.00 in bed en she sleep 40 or less again.
What am i doing wrong and why is she so early awake, before she slept til 7,45 en then she had the slept also 3 time 40 minutes.
She is now almost 9 months why is she not sleeping longer, i dont understand. And if i give her longer a wake times this means she is awake en will not sleep longer en at the end of the day we have no time for 3 nap en she will get so overtired. Because 80 minutes or less is not much sleep for not even 9 month baby. Help help help
-
Hi Mary,
I think your A time is very short for a 9mo, that's probably why you're getting the short naps. I was in your exact same position when my DD was 8mo!
The average awake time for a 9mo is between 3-4hrs. Keep this link handy as it explains more. Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
I think that first bottle then sleep might be messing up your day a little. She's obviously UT for that first nap, then the rest of the day follows the same pattern.
Most lo's are on 2 naps at 9 months old. I would try and get at least one decent nap out of her for now as sleep can go wonky for other reasons soon. I'll edit this post in a minute and add in a link to some example routines so you can have a look at what others do. For some reason my ipad loses the post if I go to another page.
Ok, so you'll need to look at extending the first A initially. You may not want to start your day at 6, but you may have to for now to sort out the naps then we can look at shifting the day later if you want.
If she wakes as 6, and you can't resettle using ssh/pat in her cot (or however you usually resettle her), get her up and give her her bottle as usual (not in bed though). You'd be looking to extend this activity time to around 3.5hrs I would think looking at what you do currently. She may give you sleepy cues when she's used to going down, but try some low-key stuff like reading or carrying her around for a little while.
What do you think to that? Have a look at the routine examples too it's good to see what others are doing.
chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months
-
Thank you for your advice.
She doesnt sleep all days after her bottle. If i do what you says i have to start the day at six, iam afraid that if i do that she will wake up earlier.
So maybe then i have tot start at 5,3o and so and so further.
But the days she is not sleeping her 2 time is over 3 hours and she still sleeps short. Today she slept til 7.45 was a wake at 5 i give her a pecifier and she slept til six, then she was til 7 awake, slept til 7,45.
Put her at 10.30 a sleep, that is 2,45 minutes later, I have to short the a time in the morning otherwise, if she sleeps good no time for second nap)which she never does'.
Then i put her to sleep at 13.00 because she is verry tired, didnīt sleep much, so I can not wait that long, because normaly a baby did has his sleep like 1,5 hour but she didnīt. So now the wake time is very long, but she still only sleep 40 minutes.
If I now wait till seven she will get very overtired so i have to put her later to sleep at 16.00 for again 30 minutes, if i wait to long then the last sleep is to close to bedtime. Do you understand wat i mean . Do you know why she is not sleeping longer at her age. In total she sleep only 11 hours night with wakenings so it not exactly 11 hours. In the day not even 2 hours.
-
I know it's scary, and she might indeed wake earlier, but you need to find a time in the morning that you're happy to wu and treat everything else before that as a NW. If that's 7, that's fine.
Here, my DD has woken as early as 5.30-6am and as long as she's not crying I leave her until at least 6.15 (ideally 6.30) until it's time to get up.
I think you need to power through and extend that first A. 2hrs 45mins is just not enough to get a decent nap length. It needs to be around 3.5hrs or more. I know that you say she won't fit in a good nap later on and the timings get all messed up before BT. But it can't get much worse nap wise can it?
If she's on reasonable A's that she's obviously capable of considering her short naps, you may be able to get to at least one nap of a decent length. Sometime the day does get a little long about now in order to fit everything in. She might be a little too old now to expect 2 long naps if you want to keep the day to 12-13hrs. I think most at this age are doing one long nap and one shorter nap.
So how about something like this:
Wu 7
Nap 1 10.45-12.15 (hopefully)
Nap 2 3.15- 4(this is purposely to get an UT nap so your day doesn't get too long)
BT 7.15 (asleep by)
If the first nap is short, don't worry, you can work on getting the second one longer instead, but you must be confident to increase those A's past 2hrs. If both naps are short, again, don't worry, do an early BT and start again the next day!
It's going to take some time to find the right A for him, so please be patient, we'll get there. I went through this with my DD (45mins naps for 8months) and with the help on here she now naps beautifully! ;)
-
I forgot to add, you'll need to extend the A time slowly. Please don't jump from 2hrs 45 to 3hrs 45 in one go. You'll need to do it as 15mins every 2-3 days or so until you reach the routine example I gave you. As I said before, your days may get longer in the meantime but please try and keep to an absolute max of a 13hr day.
Please come back to me if you need me to explain it further.
-
Thank you again.
Okay, I will try tomorrow what i don't understand is, if i get to very short naps then ik can put her earlier in her bed.
But how much earlier and will this not mess up her night sleep. For example, we start a 7 she sleep in the morning 45 en in the afternoon 45.
So first nap 10.30 like 45 minutes and then i wait 3,5 hours later.
14.45 she goes to bed for again 45 minutes, then she will be tired, how late can I put her in bed?
It sounds very long 3,5 awake time, are you sure this is normal for almost 9 month old?
I preffer a shorter nap in the moring and a long one in the afternoon, is this okay or not a good idea?
How long did your baby sleep after help here? How long do babys sleep in the daytime in total for 9 month olds? Sorry, for so many questions, but my baby has not much sleep since she was born, always catnaps and very short.
-
What I also don't understand is that if you make the a time so long this means, that the hours before bedtime are very short because you don t have enough hours.
For example 3,5 awake time
wake: 7
sleep;10,30
awake 12.00
sleep 15.30
awake 17.00
and the 19.00 to bed, I thought you had to keep the hours before bed the longest, like to 2 hours awake in morning, 3 afternoon and then 4 hours a wake before bed, for a good night sleep.
-
Not always Mary, my LO actually preferred it the other way round... Took a while to figure out, but got there in the end. But some do like a long A before bed, we just need to figure out what's best,for yours.
The idea is after the shorter nap, the A time will be shorter. Lo's can go longer after a longer nap. I just suggested the longer am nap and the shorter pm one as that's the way I did it here. Many others have had lots of success the other way round so if you'd like to give it a go, go for it! For me, it just took the stress out of the rest of the day. Once we had that first long nap, the other shorter nap could be in the car or out and about.
You have to take the whole day into consideration too. You can have a varied A times to make sure she isn't OT before bed.
For that routine you posted, you need to not work on 2 long naps otherwise up your day will get too long and will cut into NT sleep. I think you should try to work towards 1 x 1.5hr nap and 1 x 45mins nap. Similar to what I posted earlier. You can swop the A's around if you'd like to do it the other way round so:
Wu 7
Nap 1 10.15-11 (UT 45mins nap)
Nap 2 2.30-4
BT 7
It'll take a lot of tweaking to try and get the timing right for that second nap. As you've done over 3hrs before, I've suggested 3.5hrs. Try this first and see how you go. If it doesn't work, extend the next day by 10 mins, hold it for 2 days and see what happens. If it doesn't work again, repeat. I have a feeling you'll need to get to 4hrs but we'll see how it goes!
For me, I took a week of help on here before our first 1.5hr nap. I was over the moon!
Then it stabilised and she went back to 45mins. I had to up the A again and again until we found where she wanted to be! This forum is great for that.
I'll be back in a minute for the average sleep needs for babies. Need to find the link. Bear in mind it is just a guide. Many, many babies do not fall into the 'average' sleep needs.
Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep
-
Sorry, forgot to answer your question about EBT.
If you do the routine I posted on the last post with a short am nap and longer pm nap and both are 45mins, I would do BT by latest 6.15/6.30 if it were me xx
-
Hello,
Thank you again.
This moring she woke up at 6.15 and i give her a soother she slept til 7.00. So we got up and i did give her, her food. I extend the A time till 10.00, i first tried to put her at 9.30 because she was crying. But she didnt want to sleep so i got her out of bed. She was only 10 minutes there and she didnt want to sleep. I tried again at 10.00 , so the A time was 3 hours.
She only slept for 38 minutes! I preffer a longer nap in the afternoon. So i did make her A time 3 hours en 15 minutes and she was really tired. But again she only slept for 45 minutes.
Do i have to count the a time from the last time she slept. So if she sleeps in the morning til 11.00 I have to count from 11.00 even if she only sleeps 30 minutes?
I am afraid it will to work, i will put her now to bed at six en hope she will not awake even earlier in the morning. A afraid so less sleep is not good for her health.
I this normal she did not make her sleeps today longer? In total she slept 79 minutes.
Hope you still can help me.
-
Hi again Mary,
Please don't worry too much, it's just going to take a little time to figure out the right amount of A your LO needs. Mine did just fine on 45mins naps until we sorted it out. And now, there's still some days she'll only sleep a hr in total throughout the day!!
Firstly, that's great she went until 7. She may get grumpy around the usual time you'd put her to bed, but most of the time that is just learned behaviour and you have to push through. Here, we still have a grumpy 10mins, then she's all fine again afterwards!
Ok, so technically the first nap was fine considering we're shooting for a short first nap and longer second, so let's keep that at 3hrs tomorrow ok?
It's just that second one we need to work on. I think you'll need to push her to 3.5hrs from wu from first nap until pd to the 2nd nap. How does that sound? If she does get grumpy and looks tired earlier, just do some low-key stuff like carrying her around and pointing out some things around the house. Those last 15mins or so can be hard work, but it will be worth it in the end when we get there ;)
It is totally normal the sleep time can be a bit erratic during a change in routine. EBT is key during these transitions so you give her the opportunity to catch up on lost sleep.
Trust me, you are definitely not alone in this. I was in exactly the same position as you a few months ago. Your LO and mine sound so similar! It will stabilise out and there are other things we can try once we get to an appropriate A time.
Hth xx
-
Hello Kellyjs,
Thanks again! I really have problems believing this will work, I have problems with sleep since she was born, so if this works it would be amazing.
How long did you LO sleep after you increased A time? And you are now on one nap? How long is that? Its good to hear that you had similar problems with your baby, because everyone I know has normal naps. And my baby is so awake since birth, its also very trying, always trying to get her to sleep and not being succesful.
I will keep you posted, tomorrow I will do first 3 hours and then again 3,15 minutes en then the next day go up with 15 minutes for the second nap. I hope she will show beter naps tomorrow.
xxxx
-
Sorry hun, I meant go to 3hrs 30mins. (3.5 means 3 and a half!!). Hopefully you'll see this in time.
A baby's sleep cycle is between 38-45mins, if they are not tired enough, they simply will wake up after that time and not go back to sleep. We call this an UT nap. Once I knew and understood this, it made it so much easier to justify increasing the A times. We just need to convince her she's tired enough to go over to the next sleep cycle, to do that, we need to find the right awake time for her.
I was really doubtful to start with too as she'd been a 45-minute napper forever! To be honest, we found a good routine for her and it worked for a week or so, then it was like she got used to it and went back to 2x45 mins naps again ::). But I knew then she was capable of doing a longer nap, so I increased the activity time again with the reassurance from people on here. It really helped to give me the confidence to do it. Then we were good for a couple of months on a longer nap of 1.5hrs in the morning and a shorter 45mins in the afternoon until she started going through the 2-1 transition. Don't worry about that too much yet! I have a feeling because she was UT her entire life, that's the reason we are going through transition early, but don't quote me on that! To answer your question...She now sleeps between 1.5-2.5hrs (sorry, 1hr 30-2hrs 30) on one nap. But it's taken us a long time to get here, so please don't be tempted to try it yet!
I have a feeling your LO is going to be so like mine in that she can do a full A time on a short nap. I think that's because they're used to it! But we'll see. On the plus side if it helps, my LO handles OT really well compared to a lot of babies, so if ours are similar she will be able to handle quite a jump in A.
Let me know how you get on with the 3hrs 30mins A in the afternoon. And of course how the night/wu is xx
-
Hello Kellyjs,
No succes today again. In the morning she woke up at 6,15 at 9.10 she went backt to sleep, again 40/45 minutes.
She went back to sleep at 13.20 slept at 13.30 and woke up at 14.10, so she slep only like 30/35 minutes. So the awake time was like 3.20 and she slept 10 minutes later, so her awake time in total was 3 hours 20 minutes.
My question is she is tired, extend awake time is meant to be sure your baby is tired, but she is tired and still does not extend her nap.
How far can you go? I am no on 3,20 minutes before I did 2,45 and in the moring like 2 or 2,30 but the she got more sleep because I put her more often in bed.
I wil put her in her crib for the night at six, I don't think a third nap is smart to do? What do you think of our day? :-\
-
I mean her awake time by the second nap was 3,5
-
I think we're getting there.. With every day we are learning what's she's capable of aren't we??
How does she wake from her afternoon nap? Is she happy? If so, as it's still a 40mins nap I'm still thinking UT.
If it's any consolation my LO only did a 1hr 15mins nap today. So EBT for us too. Time to bump her A up as well ::)
-
Once we get her A's at a suitable level, have you thought about trying wake to sleep? It worked well on my LO. But again, it takes perseverance and the A time to be right.
Here's the link for this How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
Let me know what you think?
-
Hai,
No she was cranky the second nap time, first she start talking to her self and then crying she look tired but i left her in bed a few minutes but she started screaming.
I did before try wake to sleep but as soon as ik come in to the room she wakes up, and is then very a wake a doesn't want to sleep.
I prefer not to go near her room because even if she hears me going upstairs she start crying is then awake and doesn't want to sleep.
I thought it was also for younger babies.
How old is your baby.
How long does it take for her to sleep longer? Do you think i have to make her awake time longer of just try again? I means if the awake time is good does she sleep longer or has she first get used to this a wake time?
I don't now what to do tomorrow?
-
Okey dokey, I think we're close. I'd bump that A another 10mins for the afternoon one tomorrow. Then do wake to sleep.
The key is with it is to know their sleep patterns. For the first 20mins, they are in light sleep and can be easily disturbed unless they're absolutely knackered and have crashed. So no disturbing them in the first 20mins. After that they move into a deep sleep. I would suggest you go in at the 30minute mark and very gently stroke her cheek.. Enough to hear her breathing change (or they sigh) and back out very quietly. It can be used on older babies. I did it for mine at around 8.5 months and it just taught her to sleep longer. I think as she was so used to 45minute naps she was habitually waking then, even when the A time was long. I had to do it for a good week, then when she regressed back (I mentioned it in an earlier post) I had to up the A and do it again for another 3days. Don't get me wrong, there were days when it didn't work and I felt really down about it. I'd do w2s and she'd still wake up at 45mins!! But looking back it was because her A time was too short for her.
Worst case scenario is she wakes at 30mins, but hey, that's only 10mins less than you're getting anyway so it's worth a shot?
To answer your questions - mine is 11.5mo. After help on here, her sleep improved within a week or so, regressed, then was good for another month until the 2-1 transition craziness started. But luckily I was well informed this time, and have ongoing support on here which helps.
I think your LO sounds so much like mine. I think if we get the right A for her, she will sleep longer it just takes a little more time than most. Probably because we let it go on for so long! There's obviously an element of learned behaviour so wake to sleep is probably our best option. Yes, they do go backwards sometimes (as mine did and still is), now I just know what to do the next day to sort it out! And EBT is key on the days it doesn't work!
-
Hello Kellyjs,
My Lo woke up this day late :P, 7.30. We s bought yesterdagy very dark shutter. Because normaly she woke up by 730 but the last weeks it is very earlier combined with little sleep through the day. So this maybe works for have a better night sleep, thats what we thought and today it worked.
Now I didn"t now wat to do, but because we are going for one good nap. I put her to bed by 10 otherwise the day is become later and i really want to have 7 as the latest bed time. Also changing to much the sleeping hours will affect her sleep, or not?
I want to have a long a wake time this afternoon, like 3,5.
By the way she is now still sleeping so she is going for an hour I think, I dont understand why a lot of times if she goes erlyear to bed she still will sleep. I looks like it doesnt matter if her awake time is long of short.
What are your ideas if she wakes up at this time, how to handle different moring awaking?
xxx
-
That's an amazing wu!! Congrats on the lie in!!
I would keep to the same A's personally as you're wanting to teach her that's the way forward. How long did she sleep for the morning nap in the end? If it was longer than an hour, I'd still look at doing 30hrs 30mins and see how long that next nap is. It might mean a later BT today, but don't worry about it too much. As she woke up at 7.30am, with one decent nap and a CN it could be 12hrs, two decent naps, you'd be looking at a 13hr day probably.
-
She slept for an 1 hour and 10 minutes, I have now a wake of 3,5 hours. I'm curious what she is going to sleep now.
If she sleep good nap, like one in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon het would mean that her bedtime is becoming 20,30?
Or not?I prefer to have here in bed by seven or max 19.30. What would you do with bedtime if she sleeps good naps, what do the most do?
I always thought babys needed a longer awake time before going to bed, so they sleep better through the night.
-
It's up to you. At this age it's more common to have one longer nap and one shorter nap a day. If she does pull two longer naps, your day will be getting very long. I'll link to the 2-1 transition FAQ for you to have a look at in a minute. I'm not saying your LO is ready for one nap, far from it in fact. If you have a read of the link it explains with increasing A times it becomes more and more difficult to fit everything into a reasonable length of day.
Not all babies prefer a longer A to bed. Mine didn't! But we just need to figure out which one yours prefers to do. If you keep in mind the length of the entire day, lo's will naturally be tired at the end of a 13hr day or so anyway irrelevant of A times before bed. Does that make sense?
It's amazing we've got a longer nap out of her already! It's just not the nap you'd prefer hey?! We'll keep going tomorrow holding the same A's and see what happens.
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
-
But what is long? Do you consider 1 hour en 1 hour long naps? I mean like 2,5 , 3 hours is normal for her age.
-
O she is now crying and can get the sleep, 1 hour ago at 2,5 awake time she could almost not hold her eyes open. What does this mean, I push to long and now she is so awake has difficult sleeping?
-
No 2-3hr long naps aren't normal for her age at all!! Probably a maximum of 3hrs daytime sleep over two naps would give you a 14+ hr day.
I think you should aim for around a 45minute nap in the morning and around 1.5hrs in the afternoon that sound keep you to the 12-hr day you would like.
We consider anything over an hr a restorative nap. So don't worry too much if the above times I mentioned don't go exactly to plan. The reason you want her to have a shorter nap in the morning is so you can still fit everything into one day.
-
Is she crying in bed? Did she fall asleep at all and has woken up? Or is she having trouble setting herself to sleep?
-
Don't know if it'll help, but thought you might like to see what I went through at 8mo regards the 45-minute naps. It might take a bit of time to read through though ;) I know your LO is a lot older but sometimes it helps when you read what others have been through xx
8mo EASY routine
-
Hello,
We still don't have succes here, she woke up. She only slept 45 minutes again, I kept a awake time of 3,5 hours she slept at 3,75 a wake time.
She was crying, I think she having trouble setting herself to sleep.
Now she is very cranky and crying, this is not working, help. I am getting desperate now.
I also meant a total amount of 3 hours a day of sleeptime for her age, not a nap of 2 a 3 hours, I now she is to big for that even tho she has never done that. But now she is getting to little sleep, only 1,45 hours a day.
The awake time is not working. I dont no what to do now. She is now crying, is not happy.
-
The first time she fall a sleep and did not cry at al. The second nap she cried and had trouble sleeping. First time 2,5 h awake time, second nap 3,75 hours awake in total, but trouble sleeping.
-
Hai
What do you think? Or is this nothing for her?
Help
-
Sorry Mary, we've been away.
How did today go? I'd be tempted to leave the A times as they are for now and see if she settles into them. If you like you can try and reduce the second one a bit so 3hrs 20 mins, but I have a feeling that'll still give you another 45mins nap,but might be worth a go? Also try w2s I mentioned before. Is there any teeth or anything bothering her at the minute? If so, could you try medicating 15mins before her nap?
What we do know is that she needs to learn to transition to the next sleep cycle. She's perfectly capable of doing it when you got that longer nap the other day.
How are the nights at the moment? Any unusual WU's?
-
Hello,
I have been away to :). She is now sleeping sometimes in the afternoon 1,5 and sometimes she doesn't. So it's changing a bit but we are not there yet.
I Put her now in the morning at 10.00 in bed and in the afternoon at 2.30.
But i'm having now night wakenings and i don't no why? What doe you mean by medicating her? I don't see teeths come through but i really don't now, this is my firtst baby.
-
Hi Mary,
Great news about the longer nap, guess it's getting there isn't it? How is she at those night wakings? Is she easy to settle for example? Could you remind me how old she is now and post what your easy looks like now too?
-
Hello Kellyjs,
Our schedule is;
7.oo/7.30 awake
7.45 eat solids
9.00 fruit
10.00 sleep
12.30 milk and bread
14.00/14.30 sleep
16.45 supper
19.00/19.15 bedtime, so this depends how she naps, sometime it is 18,30/18,15
The naps where going okay for some days, but now I have a new problem.
She sleeps sometimes till 8,15, then she doesn't want to sleep in the morning. So i put her to sleep at 12.00 but she again only slept like 1, 15 minutes, I had to try a catnap at four, before she did not want to sleep, but also at 4 she did refused to sleep.
So I put her in her bed at 18,15 she clearly was overtired, but is she sleeps longer I don't now what to do? Do you have advice on this? Is this meaning she only wants to do 1 nap? But why sleep only one hour that is really not enough. She did turn 9 months this week.
She sometimes wakes up crying in the night and cries long, I think it anxiety, because she still doesn't have teeth. I pick her up now because otherwise she cries for 2 hours :o. We lay her in our bed till she is relax, but not sleeping and then bring her back. You think this is smart to do, we are afraid she will get used on the other hand she does not do this every day. But also she doesn't go to sleep she never did the before.
Hope you can help. :)
-
Hi Mary,
Firstly, congratulations on the longer nap and a couple of lie-ins! I would love a 8.15 wu!!!
Personally I've never let DD lie-in for the sake of our routine but it is a personal choice. If your happy to let her wu later especially after a yucky night, I would continue to do so, but just shift the whole day forward and keep the same A length. You did exactly the right thing about an EBT when she refused that nap.
Those WU's at night are a little rubbish aZthough. Do you think she's in pain with teeth at all? I know you said she hasn't got any yet, so she could be expecting some. Could you try medicating her with some baby ibuprofen to see if that helps?
If you're happy to have her in your bed for a while that's ok, as long as it doesn't become a prop. I have always been very strict about trying to settle DD in her own cot. I use ss/pat and try to relax her as much as possible then gradually withdraw. 9mo is a funny age.. We had these NW's where she was very difficult to settle too. If it helps it did pass within a week or two. I think it was developmental at the time. Any new skills emerging? Crawling etc?
With regards to your routine.. Does she always sleep 1hr 15 mins in the morning or was that just when you out her to bed at 12 after the 8.15 wu?
I think this link might help you.. I don't think she's ready for one nap at all yet, but she could be starting to go that way a little early like mine. Please remember the transition to one nap takes a long time, unfortunately it does mean the routine needs a bit of playing around with again I think.
10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first!
-
Hi Kellyjs,
Thank you, but the naps only happend a few times :-\.
I let her sleep till 8,15 because we had very strange days. She refuses to sleep in the morning, then she only slept like 1 hour in the afternoon so she is really tired, then she also cried in the night, that why she slept till 8,15. This only happend 2 times.
Today she woke up at 7,15 but she doesn't want to sleep at 10.15, also not at 11.00 ???. I hope she will do one long nap. Do you now what I can do, I seems like she goes to one nap?
The night wakenings does not happen every day, maybe like 3 times a week, this is the second week it happend, I hope it will go away soon. Still no teeth, I don't now if i can give her medication because she does not do it every day.
Her development is very quick I think, She can already sit, crawl and stand (7 months, she Begin with it) she only has to walk. She stands around the table with one hand, and makes some steps around the table. Since one week she only wants to stand, doesn't sit anymore. So not really a new skill, but she became better in her skills this week. Hope you understand me :D.
What is the best time for one nap, to bring her to bed, how long awake time? It's is now 4 hours later and she is crying , but i am afraid she Will again sleep for hour 1 the hole day. I will put her in her bed at 12.00, so awake this morning at 7,15, did refuse sleep at 10,15 and 11.00, we give her solids at 11,30 and then bring her to bed at 12.00. You think that is good?
So I am lost now at the moment don't now what to do at what time? She is also a baby that doesn't show good that she is sleepy.
What do you think? I really try to 2 naps but this doesn't work.
-
Hai Kellyjs,
She only slept 45 minutes at 12.00? :o
I this normal?
-
I think the NW sounds developmental tbh. As you said, if she's learning her new skills quickly it won't be long until she's walking. Of course I understand what you mean! We had it here too.. It's like they want to keep doing their new skill over and over don't they?! You'd think it'll tire them out more :o
That 45mins nap might be OT today dyt? Considering she normally will sleep 1hr 15mins after a 8.15 wu. Either that or there is definitely some discomfort going on that stopped her going to the next sleep cycle. Could she have been hungry at all? Sorry, just read that you fed her solids, so scrap that.
If she woke at 12.45pm today, I would try for another nap at 3.30 perhaps? Otherwise that's going to be a very long A to bed. It's a hard one to judge as mine could do a full A on 45mins sleep some prefer a bit less after a short nap. I have a feeling yours is more like mine.
She's 9mo old now isn't she? Mine was doing 4hrs A in the morning about that time. Do you want to try 3hrs 45mins A tomorrow and see if that works? It might not though. I think you'll have to try and find the right A for her in the morning to get the longer nap, then if she does refuse the later shorter pm nap, then you could just do EBT. I know you originally wanted it to be the other way round but I think she might be preferring this way!
In order to get to one nap, you would ideally need at least 5hrs A in the morning to get a reasonable length nap, then it's not too long to BT. The problem is, the more you push out the morning A the more chance there is of OT settling in and thus making BT/NW worse. I really, really don't think you're quite there yet, but she probably will transition to one nap earlier than most lo's.
I think if we concentrate on getting that first A right to get a longer first nap, it will make the eventual transition to one nap easier for you both in the long run. She really needs to learn to take longer naps first.
D you have a wind down routine before nap time? It might be an idea to extend that slightly considering she's so mobile and things are obviously changing so much for her at the moment. For example, now my DD knows nap time is after lunch as it's the same every day. We then change her nappy, read a story then it's in bed. I had to start doing a longer wind down as she was too busy charging around the place and never gave me any sleepy signals either! ::) now when we are reading our story, she automatically starts rubbing her eyes knowing sleep time is coming.
Tomorrow morning I would try the 3hrs 45mins A and do w2s at the 30mims point to see if that helps lengthen the nap. If not, I would increase it to. 4 hrs the next day and hold it for around a week and work on the w2s to lengthen the nap. I really doubt she'd need much more than 4hrs first thing to get a long nap in, but I guess we'll see.
9mo was a really tricky time for us too, so you're not alone.
-
Hai
But she did have today 4,45 a time and only sleep 40 minuten. At 3 she refused sleeping at 3,30 asli refused sleeping. She never did this is this normal? Only 40 minuten?
-
We just need to find the right A times for her and kind of 'set' them into her body clock iykwim? I managed to do this with DD until she started playing around at BT too much and the day got too long. For her, the day was too long on two naps and that caused her to be OT. That's when I knew I had to drop to one nap.
There's definitely something at play at the moment with yours. Perhaps a wonder week or something? See how she sleeps tonight. If it's a good 12hrs or so with minimal NW's see how long you're comfortable with pushing her in the morning. I wouldn't go much over 4hrs at this point or else you'll definitely not have time for a CN later on.
Hope you managed to get an EBT in?
Don't worry too much about what's normal and what's not. I don't think there is actually a 'normal' LO! As long as you give her the opportunity to catch up on missed sleep, you're doing the best you can for her.
-
I did Bring her to bed at six, she immediately fall a sleep.
I worry more About a exhausting day for here and me, if she sleeps this many. Okay, i try tomorrow 4 hours let hope its only one day.
What is a wonder week? And wich time for a catnap?
-
Google the wonder weeks for babies and loads of info should come up. I was a little dubious at first, but the idea is that babies go through periods of leaps in their development. The websites should help you find out if she's in one. It goes by the lo's due date rather than birth date.
During these wonder weeks, sleep can be thrown off, they can be extra grumpy or clingy. Then following it, new skills emerge. It's actually quite amazing when you track it and notice they are in one.
Babies are quite resilient. More than we think! Don't worry too much, soon we'll get her A times right one way or another then hopefully it'll all settle down and you can get some you time too.
I was thinking perhaps:
Wu 7.15am
A 4hrs
S 11.15 - 12.45 (hopefully. Do w2s at 30mins into nap)
A 3hrs 30mins
S 4.15-5 (short nap)
A 2hrs 45mins - 3 hrs
S 8
As she refused the CN earlier at 3.5hrs, this might be a little ambitious but I'd persevere and keep putting her down at this time. Hopefully she'll learn it's time to sleep. Also, if she's happy to be left there playing around, try and leave her as long as possible so at least she gets some quiet time. You never know, she may drop off. If not, get her up and do EBT as you did today. I think the idea is to try and create some consistency to see if that will help her settle into a pattern of when she's expected to sleep. That's what I had to do in the end. It took about a week I think, but then she did start to go to sleep easier for that CN.
As you can see from the above your day will start to get longer now if she does finally start to take a decent nap. Even if you get the 1hr 15mins nap you were getting before, that's fine.
What do you think?
-
I Will try but i feel that sleeping between 4 and bedtime is very difficult for her. She normally is never tired around that time. Normally she is more tired in the morning. But now she is not so i Will try and See what happens. Is IT possible she Will only sleep a hour a day? That she Will change and only sleep like that?
Oh i know now what you mean by wonder weeks. I never had the feeling that it was something she did. But you never know.
-
Some babies do only sleep an hour a day and are just fine! But I think yours will lengthen if we find the right times for her.
Good luck today, let me know how it goes.
-
Hello there,
I lo did wake up at 6,30 at 10.30 sleep, she only slept 30 minutes with an awake time of 4 hours ???
Then I brought her to bed at 2,15 she slept 1,5, I didn't wait again that long because she almost did not sleep, then she slept 1,15 hours.
I seems that the awake time doesn't matter ??? Or not.
We had today a terrible night, she did wake up at 9,45 at 12.00 she was still crying. Then again from 3 till 5, omg we are going crazy over here.
What is this, still no teeth then she sleep 2 or 3 days normal. If we leave room she begins crying. Pick up and put down doesn't work and is so tyring I mean she weighs 9 kilos.
If we put here in our rooms she plays and talks, we have to wait till she calm down then bring her back and then she will sleep, this take also 2 hours. We don't now what to do.
She was also awake between 6 and 8, but then she begins talking and sleeping so I left her in her bed.
Don't now what to do with naps, because she also did sleep bad in the night.
-
Hiya, 30mins naps tend to signal OT. I'd reduce that back to 3hrs 45mins. As she had an OT first nap, that second nap was obviously a good time to put her back down as she slept longer. Am I reading right that she then had a third nap?
If she did have a third nap perhaps last night was UT wakings? If not, it does sound like teething or developmental. It's a case of medicating, seeing if that helps or just riding it out until it settles down. It's horrible when they do this, but it will settle down, promise.
Personally I didn't use pu/pd. have you tried ssh/pat while keeping her in her bed? It may be that she's starting to rely on you to come and get her and let her play in your bed. In this house, that's a complete no no as it negates the fact it's sleep time. Whatever you decide to do, you must be consistent. Babies thrive on knowing exactly what they're supposed to do by your actions.
-
Hello Kellyis,
Sorry for my late answers, I have been and am very tired. I really don't now what is going on here. Yesterday she slept in the daytime in total 1,15 , like 30 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the afternoon. Sometimes she sleeps good and sometimes not. Changes a lot.
But then i put here at 18,30 in bed, she cried till 9,15, if we stay in room she plays and laughs, also if we bring her to our room, if we leave she starts crying?
Finally she fall a sleep at 9 but she cried a lot, this makes me feel a bad mother, really don't now what to do. Then again she wake up at 3.00 in the morning, we pick her up and bring her to our room, because she otherways stays crying, then if she is calm we bring her back, the 3third time we brought her back and she went to sleep, this all took like 1,5 hour in the night. This is now the 4 week we are in this, and then she maybe sleeps 1 or 2 days good in the night and then 2 bad. Of course if she sleeps this bad she wakes up at 8, then she sleeps at 10.30 for 1,20 minutes, she is so tired if she has this crazy nights, i really can't make her a longer A time then.
Then she refuses to sleep in the afternoon.
She does not show anxiety in the day time? So why in the night if it is anxiety.
Tell me what you think. Is it not so that if a baby has night wakenings, she maybe needs one sleep? If you think not, why not then? I really want to understand? Still no teeth i really don't think this is the problem. I hope you have some advice, We are so tired..... :-[ :-\
-
Are the night wakings happening when she has short naps during the day? Is there a pattern you can see? Ie. the times she's refused the afternoon nap, are those the days she has the night wakings?
She's nearly 10mo old now isn't she? She's definitely in the prime time for when sleep goes wonky as per the link I posted previously.
I just want to say that just because she has cried does not make you a bad mother whatsoever. You are doing the best you can for her and seeing to her when she's upset. That, in my opinion, makes you a much better mother than some people out there!
It might be worth posting the last few days in easy format for me to have a look at if you can?
So wu time
Nap time
Etc etc like we did before. If you can include the night wakings too I think that'll be helpful so we can see if there's a pattern to all of this.
-
Hello Kellys,
I will try, if i rember good;
1:
Wake up at 7.45
sleep at 10.30 1,5 hours
sleep again at 14.45 1 hour
sleep again at 19.00
Night wakenings 2 hours in the night, I think that is why she sleep more in the morning
2;
wake up 7.35
sleep 10.15 1,20 minutes she slept
sleep 14.45 slept for 45 minutes
bedtime like 19.00/19.15
Night wakenings at 20.00 for 1,5 , then at 3 again for 1,5
3;
Like the seem
4;
No nigth wakening but she doesnt sleep through the day
awake 7.45 refuses to sleep in the morning she slept at 12.30 for 1,15 and not any mores
bedtime at 6
5;
awake at 7,45
11.30 sleeps 30 minutes 14.30 sleeps 40 minutes
bedtime at 6.15
6;
awake at 7,45
sleep at 10.30 45 minutes refuse to sleep in the afternoon. Going in bed at 18.00
I mean now she doesnt wake up but she really sleeps bad through the day. I really don t understand why she is sleeping this bad. What do you think? She is now 9 months and 2,5 weeks.
-
Hi Mary,
I'm wondering if she's UT hun. For the first day you posted for example, she had two lovely naps, perfect really. However, the day was probably a little short now she's a bit older. As you said previously she wants to play for those NW's and is not easy to resettle to sleep.
The warning signals are that when she doesn't nap as well she crashes and STTN with no NW's.
I would look at increasing the A time slowly again. She's taking good naps in the am, but I'm presuming that's because she's so tired from the NW , so I'd look at increasing that one first. It will have to be done slowly to make sure she doesn't get OT. When you put her down at 11.30am on the 5th easy you mentioned, that was definitely an OT 30mins nap so we don't want to increase by that much.
How about if she wakes at 7.45am you aim for her first nap to be at 10.45am for a few days? I'd keep the second nap where it is for now. It will mean the day gets longer by 15mins.
What do you think?
-
The warning signals are that when she doesn't nap as well she crashes and STTN with no NW's.
What is STTN? You mean warning signals for ut? I'm sorry, I don't understand all your country language. Are you American? I'm from Europe.
I normally have 3 hours awake time in the morning and 3,5 in the afternoon, only put her earlier in bed because of the NW. Do you suggest to not do this if she has nightwakenings. I seems to me that if i put her like this in bed she will not be ut? You could be right about the short day, I can make it 12 hours if she wake up late, she normally goes to sleep by 7 and she is then always verry tired, so is she sleep longer i did still bring her at 7 to bed. You suggest i always give have a day of 12 hours. So if she wakes up at 7,45, go to bed 19.45.
She again slept through the night ;D 8), woke up at 6.45, i will post later how we are doing. But how can she be UT and don 't sleep through the day, like yesterday she only slept 45 minutes!
But her earlier in bed(6,15) but she really did not catch up the lost sleepl/;.
-
Oh if i bring her to sleep at 10.45, you say keep the second nap at the same time.
So if she wake up like 12,15 (1,5) you suggest bring her at 14,30 again to sleep? but that is so close? dont you think?
-
I'm from Europe too, well the uk anyway ;). STTN is sleeps through the night.
All I'm suggesting hun is to increase that first A by 15mins, that should lengthen your day anyway. I wouldn't increase the last A after that short nap before BT as it seems like she's falling asleep really well then. So just keep everything else as it is. I mean keep the same Length of A time between wu from first nap, then it would probably mean that nap is 15mins later too at 3pm rather than 2.45pm.
Does that make sense? Great news about last night! :)
-
Hai,
We have now 2 days that she is awake by 6,30 or 7.00 then she, awake time 3 hours, then awake time of 3,5, she slept both day 1 hour or 45 minutes.
How long is the awake time before bed? If she sleeps 2 hours total i put her like 18,45 in bed, if she sleep like 1 hour something by 6,15 if she sleeps longer 2,30 then 19,15, the awake time is almost every time longer then 3,5 hours.
We had no night wakenings, she only cries like 3 minutes and then sleeps again, we don't go to the room otherwise she awake and starts crying harder, but it seems like it in her sleep.
We have problems now when we put her to sleep, if first thought she is not tired enough, but she always is almost sleeping when she drinks her milk. Also she doesn t sleep much through the day, if we are lucky it is 2 hours.
So when we put her in bed for the night, she wakes up 30 minutes later or so and starts to cry, we first wait but then she screams. We go to room if she is calm, we try to leave but then she starts again to scream very hard :o. If i stay in room, she start to laugh and starts to play, I ignore her and only stay in room. I finally leave her room, let her cry some minutes and go back, this takes again like a hour or 2 ::).
So thank god she stopt in the night doing this but she is still doing it night time.
What do you think?
-
Sounds very much like OT by BT Mary. Mine does that too if I go over a certain amount of A before BT still now.
Would you consider doing a short A to bed, so around 2hrs 45mins after she woke up from her nap? No longer than 3hrs.
I would also think about adding another 15mins onto the first A in the morning so 3hrs 15mins first A then nap. Then for the second A add 15 mins also so 3hrs 45mins then nap, then 2hrs 45 mins to bed.
How does that sound?
I think we're getting there though, great news about the nights. :)
-
Oke, i try this tonight i am verry curious if this is going to work.
So 3,15 in the moring and 3,45 afternoon, bedtime 2,45/3.
And a total of 12 hours daytime? But what if she sleep in the afternoon 1 hour or 30 minutes. By example she sleep from 14.30 till 3, then bedtime at 6?
Or if her day start at 6,30 9,45 ----sleep she sleep only 45 minutes, 10.30, then i do 14.15 tot bed sleeps again 45 minutes, then to bed at six, is this what you mean.
So if she sleep little catnaps still don't change the awake time, and in the evening 2,45/3 hours?
I had totday 2 good naps, 1 hour and 1,45.
Why did you first said that you thought her nightwakenings were ut and now you think ot by bedtime, i don't understand this?
-
Yep, that's basically it. If she has longer naps, her day will be longer. There's only so much sleep one can have. If she has the short cn's then you're giving her the opportunity to catch up with her night time sleep.
The long playful NW's during the later part of the night usually signal there's not enough A time during the day. However, lo's can get OT by BT especially if they've had rubbish naps, then doing too long of an A before BT. The WU's in the first 1-2hrs at night are normally a clear indicator of this. It's been spot on for mine. My DD has always liked short A to bed for some reason, it's just some lo's like it that way.
I know it's confusing. Great news about those naps today though. I'd keep those A times for tomorrow nap-wise. Let me know how BT goes with the shorter A, it may be a little difficult considering she had a longer nap this afternoon compared to usual. But we can always try something different tomorrow if she has great naps again.
-
Hai,
Oke I understand what you mean. I had good evening with her, so I am very happy, she didnt cry at all!! ;D Thank you, we are very surprised this work I hope she will do this again today.
I had good naps today, in the morning a time of 3 hours, nap 1,25 minutes( she is very tired in the morning), in the afternoon she slept 55 minutes, a time 3,50 (three and half hour i mean).
So i am very happy, i think your advice is working ;D, thanks again.
What should I do if she sleep not much through the day, How do i count when she needs to go to bed?
So for exampel she sleep 40 minutes in morning and 40 in afternoon, then i want to do earlie bedtime, should i count then 2,45/3 hours from the last nap? Normaly i put her 1 hour early, when i count from 7 hour putting her to bed, I hope you know what I mean, it s difficult to explean.
-
Hi Mary,
I'm so glad it's going better! :D
I think I'd do the lesser time, so 2hrs 45mins to bed. With 2x 40mins naps the day would be shorter anyway meaning that BT would be earlier anyway wouldn't it? Hopefully that'll give her enough time to catch up on the sleep she missed.
I think the idea is to get her used to the new A times and kind of set them if you know what I mean?
If she does do 2 short naps again, we will need to work on increasing the A time again before the first two naps, but as it's going well for now, let's just leave it be!! It will happen again, as she will get used to these times and may have another developmental leap and need an increase.
Keep me posted! Hope you have another good night x
-
I will try it that way. She is again crying right now, :'(. I really thought it was ot by bedtime,but now we put her at the good time in bed and she is screaming like crazy.
Every time we leave the room she begins.
-
Hello Kellys,
What can I do if the day ends earlier and aerlier? You say give her a time of 2,45, but today she did wake up at 6 her last nap was at 14.20, two short naps of 35/40 minutes.
I think putting her at 5 in bed is to earlier? Don 't you think? I afraid my day wil start even earlier.What is your advice, is there a mimium bed time.
I seems to me that my little one really doesnt react at A time that are longer.
She didnt cry last night when we put her in bed, but woke up at 3 and 5 she slept after 10 minutes so that is good, she olso did wake up a few times but did slep without coming in, she cried hard for 5 minutes and then went to sleep.
-
What are the A times like now Mary throughout the day? Is she waking happy from those 2 short naps? If so, another bump in A time might be needed. She's capable of longer naps, but I think she's sensitive to UT like mine is.
I think the earliest BT I've done is 5.30pm. I know you're afraid your day will start earlier, but that's not always the case. Many lo's add on their extra sleep they've missed. Some, however don't, so it's a case of finding out to see!
So glad your nights are better.
-
Thank you for your support, Kellyjs :)
I kept the A time at 3 and 3,50, 3 before bed. I don t understand the difference between undertired and overtired.
I put her earlier in bet and you said she is maybe undertired, but you also said she could be overtired. How do I now what it is.
She is now wakeing up earlier, i have NW and she has trouble when i bring her to bed, that sounds like ot, or not.
My other question is, my baby is sleeping like 2 hours in total a day, should i then put her earlier to bed or only if this is even less then 2 hours or olso if the time between te last nap en bedtime is getting to long. So when do you put her earlier to bed. Or always 2,45 hours after last nap?
My day today;
Woke up at 6,15 to bed at 9,15 slept only 35 minutes (looks verry tired, we had a bad night she woke up at 3 and 5 cried for 10/15 each time then went to sleep when we give pacifier, woke up also 5 o 6 times cried for 5 minutes and then went to sleep by herslef)
Then 13,40 till 15.00 slept, with wakeing at 40 minutes but went to sleep again by herself. So her awake time was like 3,45 minutes.
Then i put her to bed at six, seemed very tired. Hoping for a good night.
;)
-
If she wake up from a nap that is longer she talk and seems happy (1 hour or more)
If she wake up from short naps she wake up crying but wen i go to see her she is already happy and seems fit.
-
It's really hard to tell sometimes if they're UT or OT. Some signs of UT are short naps (like you have), playing for hours at night (like you had). OT is a little more difficult.. Too much A before BT results in early NW's (like you had recently). Also, where it gets really confusing is they can get OT from 2 short naps and a long day!
Some one on here once said about EBT is that you take what sleep they usually have in a day, say 2.5hrs. If their naps only total say 1.5hrs you should put them in bed an hour earlier to catch up. Does that make sense? I've only recently started trying that myself. But with mine too long of an A to bed irreverent of how much sleep she missed meant early NW's so I preferred to do EBT close as possible to the time I knew she could handle.
I think it may be time to add on 15mins to each of those two A times before her naps and leave BT at the same A. What do you think? It will mean the day gets 30mins longer if she does have 2 good naps, but it think you've still got the time to play with without it cutting into her night sleep.
-
I can try increasing the A time, but shouldn't i first try a few days before change this soon? She seems having a really hard time in the morning with 3 hours but then she stil catnaps, but not all the time this is so variable. So its difficult for me to say, i think i need more A time, because of her changing.
-
It's up to you. She's had this A time for a little while now hasn't she? Do what you feel she can handle, you're always in the best position to judge.
I mentioned wake to sleep a while back, do you think you might like to try that to see if it extends the nap some more? I would only pick one to do it on to begin with x
-
Yes, I tried but as so she hears me coming in to the room she wake is up? But doesn t go back to sleep :-\.
She always wake is up, I can 't get her back to sleep, really don t no how this is working for other babies, it s surprising to me.
So sometimes she is sleeping and then I stir a little and bam she wake up :o.
-
Hello Kellys,
Here I am again, we are back to the catnaps again for a week now, so my lo is not consitent with her naps.
My awake time is in the morning like 3,15 and 3,45/4 hours in the afternoon, in the morning it also can be more because i don t exactly here when she wakes up, she can be playing before we here her.
Her naps are like 40 minutes or 30 minutes, by six in the evening is she is so tired she falls when she plays.
So she goes to sleep like by 5,45 or 6.
The night screaming is over, i think i was a phase that was like 8 weeks, she only cries now a little and then goes back to sleep in the night. Like maybe 3 times she wakes up and cries for 1 or 2 minutes and goes back to sleep, we don t go to see her, this make her more awake.
So back to crapy naps, I did sometimes have a nap that was like 1, 30 minutes but this was not much.
I my baby so different, why i she not sleeping longer. Also If i put her early in bed she doesnt catch up her sleep, she sleeps the 12 hours but doesnt catch up the sleep of that day. So by 6 in bed is wakeing up at 6 in the morning.
In total she sleep now like 80 minutes a day and 12 hours a night, so the night is normal and she can sleep longer, but the day is to long wit 2 catnaps.
Do you have again advice? ??? :(
-
It's great she's sleeping 12hrs at night now, well done you!
I think we've just got to pick one nap at her age now and try to extend that one. The other one can stay short. What do you think about extending the first A and trying to get that one as the long nap? If she's doing 3.5-4hrs in the afternoon and you're still getting a short nap I'm still thinking she can handle higher A times than the average like mine.
I know you don't know exact what time she wakes up in the morning, that's fine. How about you look at extending that one to 3hrs 30mins from when she gets up and see if that works? She may need to go to around 4hrs, but I'm thinking you're more likely to get a longer nap in the morning than afternoon considering what we've seen throughout this.
You may need to shorten the second A to ensure an UT nap and so the day doesn't get too long too. I think eventually you could try 4hrs first A for a longer nap, then 3.5 hrs for a shorter nap then the usual A to bed.. I think that was around 3hrs from memory?? What do you think?
-
Hello Kellys,
Sorry for my late reaction i had no time my lo was ill and vaccin so we had no time.
Till yesterday i only wanted to see when se got tired, so she woke up at 7 and at 12.00 she went to sleep, butt still only 1,20 and at 4 she slept 45 minutes. I just put her at 4 in bed because of the day would be to long and in the evening she is really tired.
so second a time was 2,45 and last was 3 hours (but she was to tired).
So what do you think, how can I do so long a time the second time then her bed time would be over 8? What about third A time? I think the seond A time is to long.
I was thinkink just putting her the second time at 4 in bed, so i get an undertired nap and she can go by 7 to bed. I have to push til 5 hours for a longer nap? At this moment i think she really don t sleep longer then 1 hour and 25 minutes. When do you stop with the second nap?
The day can not be longer then 12 hours? Or longer?
-
Hi Mary,
1hr 20mins nap is just fine. That might be your lo's sleep cycle of 40ish mins so that would be two.
I'm afraid you're definitely in 2-1 transition territory now, she was hinting at it for a while there! The day can go up to 13hrs during the transition as it just gets very difficult to fit everything in.
You stop with the second nap when the first nap is at a reasonable time in the day and the LO no longer takes the second nap (you keep offering for quite a while yet) and the nap gets to be nearer 2 hrs or more in length. I would continue as you are doing and keep offering that second UT nap as you mentioned to get her,to a decent BT. Do remember that the a time will need to be shorter after the UT nap to BT. So maybe 2hr 30mins rather than 3hrs?
I'll say it again, your LO sounds so much like mine! Around when we started the 2-1 we were doing:
Wu 6.30
Nap 11.30-1
Nap 4-4.45
BT 7.15
Can you see how the day gets a little longer? I would try and stick with what you are doing for a little while and reduce that last A down slightly as I mentioned before.
-
Oke, I will try
So i will push the first A time, keep the second at 3,30 minutes and the last like 2,30 minutes.
Did your Lo sleep in time longer then 1,30 minutes? And when did he drop his second nap? Im am curious because they look alike.
-
I made sure I capped the nap at 1hr 30mins so she took the nap in the afternoon. Any more, she refused it!
I think we started doing one nap days around 10mo and fully transitioned at around 11mo. Before that we did alternate one nap and two naps days.
She dropped the second nap when I could get the first A closer to 6 hrs as she preferred a shorter A to bed. Even now we still do 6hrs first A, 2hrs nap then 4hrs 20mins to bed.
-
Hello Kellys,
I have now a a time of 4 hours in the moring and A time of 3 hours the second time, sometime 3 and 30 minutes, sometimes my little one does refuse the second nap. She seems more tired in the morning and 4 is a lot.
Awake 7,45
nap at 11,45 slept only 1,10
did refuse nap at 3,45 and at 16,10, I will do early bedtime today.
Am I doing this right?
-
Yep, you sure are! You're definitely in the 2-1 transition now hun. I might be tempted to push another 15mins so 4hrs 15mins in the am as she's refusing her second nap. Then at least BT won't be so early. I think she can handle it as 1hr 10mins nap here would be a little UT during the 2-1. How are the nights now?
-
Hello Kellys,
The night are good, sometimes she wake up bed goes back to sleep if i go in and give her a pacifer.
She does now most of the time 2 naps of 30 minutes, it s crazy now. Just one time she did the first nap 1,15 minutes and second 30 minutes.
If she does sleep like 1,30 or 1,15 what can i do with the second A time, because if she does only sleep 30 minutes waiting 3,30 seems so long for me? What do you think?So what can i do if the nap is longer then 1 hour or shorter? Because she has now verry undertired naps in the morning and later also.
Did you lo also slept this bad? The problem is she really does seems tired but doesnt sleep, this is so strange, it s like she is sleeping less and less, I am afraid she will stop sleeping in the day. She is only 11 months?
-
What is a average awake time for 1 nap? Or is this just a set time like 12,30 without counting when they wake up?
-
And what is a good nap? 2 hours then you don't need ebt or catnap? I hear im my area (don't now if its the right word) that a lot of babies sleep like 3 hour or more for 1 nap. I mean that would be haven but i don t believe my lo is going to do that. What did yours? So how many houra awake intotal and how many hours of nap and night sleep? What is average? I think here it is 12 hours night sleep and 3 hours nap with 1 nap.
-
I think a 3hr nap might be a little ambitious for your LO. She does seem to prefer less day time sleep. I think aim for a 2hr nap or even 2hr 30 nap when you transition.
I think she may be getting a little OT. Have you increased the A time drastically in the last few days? Is there any teething going on too?
Perhaps if she does a 30mons nap for the first one, I would try for maybe 3hrs A then try for another nap? It's a little bit of trial and error to find the right A time.
Maybe look at decreasing the first A by 30mins and try for a nap and see how long she sleeps. How long is your first A now?
Mine does 6hrs A first thing, then 2hr nap (although we only got 1hr yesterday ::)), then 4hrs 30 to BT. It might be a little while until you can reach these A times though hun ok?
-
Maybe look at decreasing the first A by 30mins and try for a nap and see how long she sleeps. How long is your first A now?
I don t understand you want me to decrease? I did just make it bigger instead, no i did not jump for a big A time at once, we did like a week 3,30 and then 3,45 a few days, then 4 hours 3 days, all this time she slept 30 minutes almost 3 weeks now. I did today 4,15 minutes, she sle pt 40 minutes.
Oke so if she doesnt sleep much i will do 3 awake time second time. How about the last awake time? I m doing early bedtime like 6,15 because of the long day and less sleep, can you explain ebt.
I did read here early bedtime is like 6,45/7 but that seems late for me if you lo is sleeping this less.
No, there is no theeting going on, is it normal sleep this less, what do you now think a most do decrease or increase first A time?
-
O i forget to say i have now nw at 4/5 o clock she doesnt want to sleep only if i hold here, how can she wake up with this little sleep? This happend now 2 day in a row.
-
That's very interesting she slept 40mins at 4hrs 15mins A time. Perhaps those 30mins naps were UT then too?? Hmmmm.
I would actually hold the 4hrs 15 mins first A then for a week or so. You said before that w2s doesn't work for her right? Do you think it might be time to try again?
Yes, I would try 3hrs A for the second A, if she refuses her nap at that time, try again 30mins later. It may not work though but I think it's worth trying it once to see.
EBT can be as early as 5.30pm! It does depend on the length of day. Some people don't start their day until 8am so a 6.45/7pm BT would be an EBT. I think you're doing BT just fine as she's sleeping a lot better in the early part of the night compared to what she used to.
-
Why did you want do decrease A time at first? Im curious? I really don t know if it ut nap, she does look tired, is sometime boring.
She got a little bit sick and fot vaccination, but this is now 3 weeks ago so i don ;t now why she is sleeping this bad, she has a puffiness look by her eye by the lack of sleep, she does need it but she can t. I will try wake to sleep but since this never work for her, i don t have hope now she will almost 1.
-
At first I thought it was because the nap was OT. 30mins is a classic OT nap. Then I remembered yours is like mine and never really did that for an OT nap. Also the nap with an even longer A was at 40mins signalling an UT nap. Do you see what I mean? Confusing these lo's aren't they?
She might surprise you about the w2s now her A times are much higher. W2s generally doesn't work if the A times are far too low which they were for you previously. Worth a go anyway?? What do you think?
-
oke, but at wich time i go in? I mean she wakes in 30 minutes, and i stir a little. But when i go in then? Do you have any idea why she olso can wake at 4/5 in the morning? It's a lot around that time.
-
I would go in at 20mins I think. Don't know about the 4/5am WU's. If it was at the same time every night, I'd say it's habitual. It might be a little bit of a phase to get in some extra cuddles. I'd ride it out for now, especially if you can get her to go back to sleep.
-
Hello Kellys,
You made me doubt yesterday when you said it seems like an OT nap (30) because she seems verry tired and not happy. So she woke up at 5,45 and fell a sleep at 6,20 till 7,20. I did put her in bed at 10.35, like A time 3,15 consedering she was awake in the night(crying).
She is still sleeping now amost an hour. So it seems ot naps. Do have information/links about this, or can you explain.
Do you is think now we can take the conclusion its ot naps?
I think maybe she was ill/ and vaccinotion that is why she maybe did sleep so bad and i began to increase A time, which probably is not the right decision.
What do you think?I am so glad you gave me advice because it s so difficult to know what to do.
-
It is hard to know what to do isn't it? She may have been feeling poorly after her vaccinations and that in itself may have caused some OT to build up. I would carry on today as usual with a 3.30hr pm nap and see if she takes that one too, BT as normal.
See how she does tonight and if it's caught her up a bit. You may need to do the same A times again tomorrow, but after then I would look at increasing again.
If my DD has a bad night or a bad nap the day before, I let her have an extra 20mins or so for her nap by putting her down earlier then a slightly earlier BT (maybe 15mins earlier) and by the next day she's usually caught herself up. Yours may need a little longer if OT has built up over a couple of weeks, but it should right itself soon.
Another thing to bear in mind is that she's coming up to a year old now isn't she? There's a huge developmental leap and wonder week that goes on around then that can make them sleep longer or can disrupt sleep during the nighttime :-\
-
Hello Kellys,
Yesterday she did sleep 2 times 1,20 minutes and slept till 8 this morning. So she probably needed that, so again i give her today old a time 3,30 minutes but again 30 minutes at the time. So I am a little lost now, it seems she will not sleep longer, she did sleep good this night. So she slept yesterday good and the night, she also did this last week 1 time and got back to the bad napes.
-
She did obviously need the catch up sleep! There may still be a bit of OT there perhaps? Maybe try 3hr 15mins second A and see if she sleeps longer again in the afternoon?
-
Hello Kelys,
I did give her time to catch up the sleep, so 3,30 A time and 3,30 second time, 2 days she slept now she did refuse her second nap. So she slept 1,10 in the morning A time 3,30 then second A time 3,30,3,45 then 4 hours, she didnt want to sleep so she i did bring her to bed at 6,20. She woke up at 7,20.
What do you think is the best for tomorrow, I really don t know now. I had first a time of 4,15 but then she slept 30 minutes. So I am a little lost.
-
You could try the same A times, but capping that first nap. Maybe at 30 mins? It may sound crazy considering she's having rubbish naps atm, but it would help her want to have a nap in the afternoon. What do you think?
-
:o I don t know, it sounds crazy, because she did nap 30 the last 3/4 weeks, so she is only napping more 3 or 4 days, so she did not sleep longer with 30 minutes in the past why would she now do that?
Is it not better increasing A time in the morning? The only thing i realy know about her sleep is that she like to sleep more with her first nap and that she is more tired in the morning. I am also thinking of just starting to put her in bed at 12.30 at once and just she what happens if she does this a few days? What do you think, i really don t like to cutting her naps, this because she sleep so bad otherwise it did not would be a problem.
-
I know, it's really tricky isn't it? If you feel you'll get a better nap in the morning then I'd stick with increasing the first A gradually. Then EBT if she refuses the second nap. You could try cold turkey, but as she was OT before you may find that'll happen again after a couple of days and get NW's and suchlike. It's up to you really.
Personally I would work on that first A and increase it reasonable slowly. So 3hrs 30mins for a couple of days, then 3hrs 45mins for a couple of days etc etc and see if you can get the nap closer to the middle of the day.
Many people do go down the set nap and BT route, I did. But it may be too big of a jump to go to 12.30pm. If you wanted to try this way I would maybe try 11.45am and set BT of 6 if her wu is around 7. You'll need to hold for at least a week perhaps two to see if she settles into it. Some OT will happen, but it will be a case if riding it out then when she's ready shifting the nap and BT once the nap starts to get longer. Wdyt? Back in a mo to post a link about set nap/BT.
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When
-
Hi, just to give you another perspective, my daughter is 11.5 months old and I have just started capping her first nap because she was refusing her second nap. But I wanted to show you that she has very short A times. Her morning A time is 2.5 hours. If I try to do a longer A time she takes a short nap. Here is her day, roughly:
6 wake
8:30-10 nap (I wake her)
1-3 nap
7 bed
So don't be afraid of a short A time, especially if your LO is especially tired in the morning.
Josie
-
thank you for an other perspective. Before she did always catnap thats why i increased A time.
Now at this moment she is suddenly napping good, so A time 3,30 in the morning nap,1,20 minutes, then i have a time 4 hours and she naps 45 minutes.
So far so good, but we now have night wakenings, at 4 at 5 at six awake. So she has a short night. Why can these night wakes happen, she only slept like 3 weeks through the night last month, before we also had night wakenings.
Its even worse then no napping :-[ Does anybody know why and what i can do?
-
Kellys,
I do a lot of time EBT but a lot of times she wakes up earlier, so i did a few times ebt and now she wakes up at 6. She does sleep like 11/12 hours not more, what is then the point to EBT?
-
That's the problem with this 2-1 transition hun, it's all over the place! EBT is essential as yours doesn't do well in the early part of the night if she's OT. However, if she's now sleeping 1hr 20mins and 45mins for her nap, 11hrs will be expected for over night sleep.
Just out of interest, are the NW's happening when she's napping well during the day?
-
hello Kellyjs,
Well i really can't tell because she is really inconsistent, so she is not daily napping 1,20 and 45. Yesterday she did again 1 nap off 1 hour.
But why? What are you thinking of? Maybe you are right but it is so difficult she she does every something else. She did nap bad yesterday and she sttn but she was crying a lot and went back to sleep for her sleep. So she had a restless night. But she slept without us and the cries where only 1 minute.
why do you also expected less sleep in the night if she sleeps a goed nap? I mean the point of napping is extra sleep not exchange with her night sleep?
Our day yesterdag;
She slept till 8 (horrible night with a lot of nw)
Then i brought her to bed at 12.oo, i thought lets try 4 hours instead of 3,30,345 lets see if she does now longer sleep, only slept 1 hour.
Did refuse to sleep at 4, awake time 3 hours because of night and 1 hour of sleep.
did EBT at 18,30 because she woke at 8?
She is so inconsitent, is there hope for us ;D that she will have some regularity.
-
There is hope hun, I promise!
The reason I'm asking is that maybe it's time to jump straight into one nap. Do the set nap and BT I mentioned before and ride out the OT? That's what I had to do in the end because I was so fed up with the inconsistency. Wdyt?
It might go well for a couple of days, then it might go haywire for another couple of days, but the idea is to stick with it come hell or high water and hope she comes out the other end settled into the new routine. You'll have to keep with it for at least 2 weeks I think before you can shift things around again like move the nap slightly later.
So I would do wu at 7, nap 11.45 or 12 - however long she wants to sleep, BT 6. You can do the nap 15mins earlier if she's had a particularly bad night, or BT up to 30mins earlier if the nap was rubbish, otherwise it's a case of sticking with the times. Worth a shot? Worse case scenario is that you get lots of OT NW's but they were easy to resettle here and the nap getting shorter as OT creeps in. It did rectify itself here within a week or two, then I had to push the nap slightly later as the nap then became an UT one ::)
-
Worse case scenario is that you get lots of OT NW's but they were easy to resettle here and the nap getting shorter as OT creeps in.
How did you got resettle i don't understand? I think it is worth trying but after her birthday next week, otherwise it s to much at the same time.
You said maybe that her Nw are at the moment that she sleep good in the day, but how is this possible if she sleep no more then 2 hours. I mean i understand what you are saying but with children that sleep to much for their age. For example 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. But like mine does?That would mean she only will need 1 hour of day sleep, I don t believe that she is to tired for that, i think she will sleep like 2 or 2,15 hours a day. I think that is what she needs to have a good happy day. ( i hope ::))
-
Problem is hun there's a huge developmental leap at 1yo. That can play havoc with sleep anyway. Here she just wanted to sleep more, but I've heard it can go the other way for some little ones ::)
What I meant was, as the night wakings were due to OT, she was so tired, that when she did cry out it just needed a minute or two of ssh/pat to resettle her again. There was no long drawn-out wakings.
I think the difference is between one good two hour sleep on one nap and two hours over 2 naps is that they have a really good restorative nap and then actually sleep more over night for a few weeks or couple of months until they're ready for the day to be pushed out again. I know it doesn't make much sense especially as you've put it, I can definitely see where you're coming from! But it really did help us stabilise things and get our consistency back. We actually had 12hr night time sleep and 2hr 30mins nap for a couple of weeks!! I couldn't believe it. Then I had to cap the nap at 2hrs and now we have an 11hr night.
-
Oke, see what you mean.
We are trying today this because she doesn t want to sleep at 3,30, so i am trying the 1 nap.
I have a few questions, what if she wake up before 7? that is a long time till 12,30 and if i do ebt like at six you are assuming that she wil sleep til 7? Because if she wake up at six that means a long time till 12,30. What about extra early bedtime?
I had a verry good night, only 1 cry and she did sleep again by her self within 1 minute.She slept from 7 til 7,30, super. So i just put her in bed at 12,30, hoping that she will sleep longer, it wat in the last hour a bit difficult she began to be really tired.
-
Kellys,
she just did wake up, she only slept 45 minutes. What can i do now?
-
Sorry hun, I was away this wknd.
How did it go in the end? I'm presuming she was UT after that lovely long night sleep the night before?? Do you give her time to try and go back to sleep if I may ask? It's really important when they are fully on one nap to try and resettle them if she is crying, or try and leave them to see if they'll go back to sleep. If after 20mins or so she doesn't look like she's going back down, I would get her up and see how she goes. You can always try for another nap if needs be, but I think that'll be harder to do once she's used to only having one nap.
In answer to your questions, the nap will be at the same time every day regardless of when she wakes. In time, it will stabilise. The idea is to count the time from when you want her to wake rather than when she actually does if you know what I mean?
-
In answer to your questions, the nap will be at the same time every day regardless of when she wakes. In time, it will stabilise. The idea is to count the time from when you want her to wake rather than when she actually does if you know what I mean?
Ŧ Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 12:25:56 PM by Kellyjs ŧ
I don t understand this, can you explain again? When you want her to wake? In the morning don t understand.
But i have good news and! I tried the 1 nap and she didnt accept or sleep. But she became 1 last week, and suddenly she sleeps 3 hours a day!!!!! And 12.5 at night, because of the long sleep i give her shorter A time, wich she normaly doesnt accept, now she sleeps after waking up at 8.30 again after 3 hour of awake time 1.30 minutes then 3 hours later again 1.30 minutes, goes in bed 2 hours later and sleep like 12/13 hours.
So i am in heaven right now ;D
But i really don t understand this. So it is not the time to go for 1 nap, she is also very tired.
Never, ever did expact this from her, she almost didnt sleep her first year in live. :o
Do you she this more often, she does walk but did start at 10.5 months, now she does it better and al by herself, so i doubt if it has to do with this.
But i must say i really like, god what a rest at the moment in hour house :P
-
That's amazing! Enjoy it while it lasts. Here, we had a good 2 weeks of extra sleep around her first birthday. Then I had to cap the nap ::). There's a huge developmental leap around now!
To clarify what I said before.. The idea with set naps is to try and regulate her sleep patterns. So if you'd like your day at start at 7, but she wakes at 6.30, you still put her down for her nap at the same time every day. I think we said 12pm? Then depending on how the nap goes.. Anything less than 1hr 30mins, you can put her to bed for the night up to 30mins earlier but ideally at the same time every night.
What I do here is... Her nap is capped at 2hrs. If she wakes at 1hr 45mins I put her to bed 15mins earlier. Does that make sense? Even if her nap is only an hour long, I only put her to bed 30mins earlier as that's the 'rules' of set naps.
So jealous of your Y time atm. But as you said, after a year of rubbish naps, it's definitely well deserved!!! X
-
Helling Kelly's ,
I am back again ;D she is again sleeping bad, so we had tree weeks very good sleep. Now she sometimes refused het seconde nap and sleeps at 11.30 1,20 minuten sometimes she sleeps 2 x 45 so i think now we are goining to set naps. She did refuse to sleep today at 11.00 and Also at 11.30 was awake at 7.20. Wdyt?
What i don t understand before you Saïd to long a time before bed can give nw? Why is that now not the case? What time is good to set12.30 and 7 for bt?
-
Might be because she had those three weeks of good sleep and with the developmental leap, she might be able to cope with the OT a little better.
Yes, I would do set nap at 12.30 if wake up is around 7.30 on average. Especially as she's prone to those 1hr 20mins naps... It'll be better to push her in the morning rather than the evening based on previous NW's.
Even if she wakes before 7.30, do keep the nap at your set time ok? 7pm BT sounds good too. You can put her to bed earlier (up to 30mins) if the nap is less than the 1hr 20. Remember it might take a couple of weeks for her to settle into it. Even then we might need to tweak a little more. Good luck and keep me posted to how it goes x
-
Oke, she only slept 1 HOur,55 minutes. So now i don t try a second nap put go for ebt at 18.30? That is what you mean. Why does she now sleep even less if we do longer awake time?
To be clear she slept 55 minutes almost a hour so not much. She was very tired this morning, but refuses to sleep.
-
Yes, I would go for EBT at 6.30 and try again tomorrow. The key is to keep at it I'm afraid and hope she settles in to it. We know she's capable of sleeping longer, she just needs to convince herself to too!
-
Oke, she did refuse again sleeping. When i put her in bed she starts to cry. I i make noise because she maybe could be anxiet she cry she Also doesnt sleep with me she fights her sleep. She always sleeps on her one. Also fights bed time , i did rock her last night and that worked . We had one nap today my arms crying. But she is really tired crying and not happy. So i really don now why she does this, she is a little ill but not much. I don t think she does this because of three weeks good sleeps because she is really tired. She falls al the time.wdyt? Should i still t try one sleep?
-
I would carry on hun. Are you putting her down at the same time every day? It is frustrating I know, especially now you know she can sleep well. I do think it's a case of powering through and getting her on a consistent routine for her now so she knows when she's expected to go to sleep.
Just out of interest, she wasn't hungry before you put her down for the nap was she? It might be a good idea to do lunch before the nap x
-
Yes, she get lunch at 12.00 and 12.30 to bed. But it difficult today she did wake up at 6.30, because of the new winter time. So she needs 6 hours of wake time. That a lot. How you do this with winter time changing?
-
There's a few different ways.. I'll post a link at the bottom. Personally we jumped her first A by 30mins on Saturday and her last A by 30mins too so technically she went to bed an hour later. Long day really. Worked the first day as we had a 6am wu (new time), but this morning she was wide awake at 5am, but luckily went back to sleep at 6 until I woke her at 6.30.
It takes me a week or so to get used to this new time change so I don't expect a LO too either tbh. We can just work with what we've got. If I were you, I would look at shifting the day by 30mins a day and hope it works out in the next day or two. So 12pm for nap today? 30mins earlier BT. Hope for 30mins later wu tomorrow then try again?
How to Adjust to Daylight Savings
-
Hello
The last days she slept 1.20 or 1.40 minuten not much. I did keep the times at 12.30 and 7 Also because of kindergarden. Otherwise i keep changing.
She does wake up to earlier after wintertime first 6.30, 6, and today 5.40. So she has short nights. Like 11hours the last weeks we had nights of 13,12.5 hours.
She is not happy because of beining ot. But she does not sleep longen even shorter.
-
It will even out, just need to give her change to regulate herself. I'd hold these times for at least another week then we can reassess. 11hr night isn't bad tbh, just ideally we'd want another 30mims or so added onto that nap.
-
Hello,
Back again ;), we tried one nap for almost 3 weeks now. in the beginning she slept like 6 times 2 or 2,5 hours, then sometimes 1,30 and now sleeps again 45 minuten, she is a little ill. But i don t think this is the problem.The night is like 3 or 4 times nw. We are still not adjust at winter time, she did sleep 12 or 12,5 at night now she sleeps 11 or 10,30 :-[.
so she is sleeping almost 11 or 12 in total, she does seem tired, but if she weeks it does seem impossible to get her back to sleep. But i can tell you she is tired and has trouble waiting till 7 to sleep.
any idea why she catnaps? I starting to think she doesnt want to sleep in the day time. Do you think she still needs time to adjust? And any idea how to get het back to sleep, i rock her give pacifier and she is realy calm but then she wakes and start to move and the i stop.
-
Oh poor you, especially when it was going so well!
I do think it's strange she's reverted back to the 45mins cat nap. Sometimes here that can be discomfort like a blocked nose etc. Is she waking up happy again? If so, it might be worth moving on that nap by another 15-30mins. It may be that with those NW's though she may have built up some OT. What do you think? How's her mood?
-
She does have a blocked nose. Her mood is not okay at all. She just did wake up by 40 minutes, and was crying without stopping, firts we went down stairs she really didnt want to sleep, but then she only cried and i went back up again and she slept in my bed in my arms, like in total 2hours.
-
Hopefully that'll catch her up on sleep at least. Sometimes we just have to do all we can to get them over illness and OT. Hopefully when she's feeling a bit better she'll get back to her (now) usual nap pattern x
-
Hello,
Here a updated, whe have been in the hospital with our lo, she had her nose almond and tube in her ear. I hope this is the good translation ::).
This is maybe why she sleeps so bad. She is now recovering. She slept yesterday suddenly again till 8. This was a long time ago.
What i wanted to ask if she sleeps this late, and i have now my naps sets at 12,30 and bt at 7. Do i have to changes this. I am thinking that then maybe 12.30 to early but if she goes later to sleep 7 will be early.what do you do, if a lo sleeps longer, and what if she does one day 7 or 6. Can you help me? I don t now. Any way i hope i will get this problem ;D. Since we changed to winter time she wakes between 5.30 and 6.30.
-
Oh poor little mite. I'm not sure exactly what has happened, but being in hospital is never good. Hope she feels better soon.
I suppose it is a nice problem to have sleeping into 8! Problem may be that she's just catching up on missed sleep whilst she was ill, but in any case if you wanted to keep to the 8am wake ups I'd be tempted to move the whole routine on so I think that would be nap at 1.30 then BT at 8? I can't remember now what time we based your last routine on, was it a wake up of 7am? Hopefully that would reset her body clock to stop waking up at 5.30!
If not, you may find she does a few extra hours sleep at night while she is recovering then reverting back to the old routine? So I think it's up to you really... What time would you prefer her to wake to fit in with you and your family?
-
Hello
She is okay now, it was because ear infection problems they helped her. But she is okay.
I really want het to wake up by 7-7.30 She was sleeping extra so she does not wake at 8. :-\ anymore.
She almost wake now at 6 or 6,30. Sleeps at 12.30 bt at 7. She still has nw. Sometimes she sleeps a few day good. How long is the day for a baby of this age ? How many hours awake without the nap. I want to try a later bedtime so she maybe wakes between 7 7,30 like before? Do you have suggetions? I hope someday she will learn how to sleep through night she is now 14 months!
-
So glad to hear she's feeling better. How long is her nap hun? I would aim to keep to a 13-hr day but that would really be dependent on the nap length.
As your still working on set nap and BT, an idea would be to move the day onwards like we did with daylight savings. So moving the nap and BT forward by 15mins every 3-4 days. Hopefully then within a couple,of weeks you may get to an 8pm BT with a 7pm wu?
-
Her nap is between 1 hour or 1 and a half hardly longer. Don t you think this is really short nap?
-
That is not much would you still recommend 13 hour day?
Do you olso have any suggestion about the nw? Since she is born she did maybe sleep 3 weeks trough the night.
-
How is she at the NW's? Is she easy to resettle? How do you resettle her? Sorry for all the questions, it might give me an idea as to what is going on.
No that's not much of a nap. 1.5hrs is preferable really. Do you notice when she sleeps longer? Is it after a bad night or when she wakes at 6 rather than 6.30?
-
Before i did give her pacifier, put music on and did stroke her head, she went back to sleep. A lot of times she also screams till i pick her up, we go to my room and she is not sleeping for sometimes one hour, she lays still between us, when i see she is falling a sleep she goes back to her room. So before she was much more easy to resettle, now she sometimes want me to pick her up.
I really don t see a connection with her day sleep. Sometimes she sleeps 1. hour and 30 minutes, other time only 1 hour, this with different nights. The last week she did refuse 2 times to sleep in the day. She really was exhausted at the and of the day. Really did not know what to do. But anyway this was only one time.
I now that sometimes she sleeps till 8 because she is catching up sleep. Normal if she now awake at 6 she is tired. Every day i pick her up at 6 put her in my bed, but she does not sleep.
This does not mean she sleeps longer in the day. Again i don t see a connection. Most of the time she does sleep good til 12 in the night, between 12 and 6 is mostly when she wakes. Sometimes 4 times i give her pacifier and she goes back to sleep, sometime she is awake 1 hour and she is in my bed. I then try to put her back when i thinks she is calm to sleep. She wakes crying. Sometimes she crying very soft and she goes back to sleep on her on.
But my problem is that we don t see a connection in her sleep. I do see she is tired also at night, she is not awake because she has to much sleep. I don t believe this, she also does not sleep much in the day to have this problem at night. If she sleep like 1 and a half or longer in the day and good in the night i do have a much happier child. So yes i do notice if she sleeps longer. I have the feeling that waking at six for her to soon is, i really think she needs 12 hours at night especially because the day naps is not so long. When we did change to winter time we did lost 1 hour of sleep. So before she slept 12 hours and longer sometimes.
You can ask everything you want :) i hope i will find a solution, because this is so exhausting for us. Its difficult with such a lack of sleep to continue with the day pffff.
Both me and my husband where good sleepers as baby. So it is a surprise why she sleeps like this. I also have good structure in the day and not much stimulation so she will have a calm day. But this does not help.
-
I think it's a really difficult one tbh. What I'd like to try is to see whether she's overtired? That is quite a long day on a smallish nap, so how about we try BT 12hrs after she wakes in the morning?
This would mean if she wakes at 6am, nap at 12.30pm as usual for however long she sleeps, then BT at 6pm. I would try this for 3 days to see if she catches up and reverts back to her 12 hrs at night.
If she does catch up and the NW's settle down, we can then look at shifting the whole day on like we do with daylight savings. Wdyt? Worth a go?
Also, if she does sleep the 12 hrs at night, it would be unrealistic to expect her to sleep much longer so bringing her into your bed at 6am wouldn't work. I have a feeling she's getting used to waking up at that time so she can get extra mummy cuddles in! Would you consider not doing this for awhile (at least the 3days) to see if it breaks the habit. I know it'll be difficult starting your day at 6am when you want it to be later, but it'll only be for the short term hopefully ok? Let me know? X
-
But she is inconsistent what about the nap keeping this always at 12,30? I normally did put her in bed at 6.30 if she sleep less then 1,30. Is this not the same? And what if she sleeps longer? I don t nowhow to do. But she already goes in at 6,30 if she sleeps like 1 hour and 15 minutes, is this not the same?
She did sleep only 1 hour yesterday she went to bed at 6,30, she did wake at 5. This is very early went to her room stay there and 1 hour later she fall a sleep till 7.30. Now she is crying because she is tired.
Ofcourse i will pick her out bed if she sleeps good 12 hours and we later can change time.
-
I think we're going have to be consistent for a few days, that might even mean waking her in the morning too to keep on track. The fact she woke at 5am this morning makes me think there definitely is some OT at play here.
I think you might have to wake her at 6.30am as that's her average time atm, set the nap at 12.30 then BT at 6.30pm if she has a 1.5hr nap, even 6pm if she has an hour nap. I know that seems early but we need to give her the opportunity to catch up. I'm thinking when she sleeps in until 7.30/8, then has her nap at 12.30, she's having an UT nap and therefore going through a bit of an UT/OT loop that's proving difficult to get out of. Does that make sense?
You've done everything right with the set nap and BT. Sometimes, they just get a bit extra tired through either those NW's or that UT/OT loop I mentioned earlier and need a little but of extra help to get back on track x
-
Okay, i will try. She now slept again 1 hour 10 minutes. So she goes in by 6. Okay, i will try this but with christmas days it will be difficult at six. So those two days wil be later.
But what is the plan if she catch up sleep? Do you think she will have a longer naps. Those days she sleeps till 8 are not much, maybe in total 3 weeks or so. But if she os ot /ut why is this since she was born.? They tell me here let her cry for one week and don t go in.
And if she wakes by six? Or earlier?
-
Please don't let her cry alone hun, we really don't support it as Tracy believed it broke the bonds of trust between a little one and its mummy. You've worked so hard to have her trust through this all, CIO is really not the answer. She'll just become despondent and separation anxiety will rear it's ugly head and things will not get better int he long term whatsoever. Promise me you'll keep up what you're doing so far?
Once she has caught up on some sleep, hopefully she'll start having slightly longer naps. Perhaps 1.5hrs is enough for her, but we need to ensure she gets her 12 hrs in at night if that's the case. Maybe she prefers it that way round. Some lo's like a 2.5hr nap, but will only sleep 10hrs at night.. Personally I think your way round will be better ;)
I know it's going to be difficult with Xmas. All the extra stimulation will probably tire her out more. Perhaps you could just go with the flow over the Christmas period then we can see where we are at afterwards? What do you think?
Cry it out (CIO): 10 reasons why it is not for us
-
Ok, i go with the flow try to be early at home for her, i will not do cio. I try this first, of cours i don t want that.
If you really think i can change this, we are desperate You think she is ot, what are the signs. Because she did wake at 5 you thought ot, why?
I just put her in bed by six. What can i do if she awakes by 6 or earlier. Change bedtime?
-
I'm thinking OT because last night she did closer to 10hrs rather than her usual 11.5-12. That normally signals OT and naps getting a little shorter too like you've been getting with the hour long ones. They say 1hr 10mins naps are a sign of OT too, but it's a case of trying a few EBT and see if that lengthens the nights. You say she's so much better with a longer night that that early morning wu makes me think OT.
All we can do is see I suppose. Go with the flow the next few days, try and keep the days to 12hrs and see of she catches up.
And thank you for the no CIO, I know we can get through this, she just needs to find her rhythm and it may be after that ww where she slept loads and after that illness she's getting herself back on track. She hasn't really had a good enough chance to settle into things really with those two throwing a spanner into the works x
-
Goodmorning,
You were right my lo slept without night wakenings :o and she slept from 6 till 8. So 14 hours !! So she is ot. Can you help me out, i did let her sleep tolong but because always bad sleeping its difficult for me to wake her up.
What can i do today bedtime at 6,30 and nap 12.30. Stick on that? Because she is overtired and the next christmas days are going to be tired for her.
-
That's amazing! Yay! ;D Let's hope she caught up. I would take the opportunity to shift the day a little, so nap at 1pm and BT at 7? Hope I got to you soon enough... If not, it wouldn't be so bad at all what you suggested.
I was hoping to get her on a 7am wu 1pm nap for 1.5hrs then a 7pm BT. Wdyt?
-
Th
I was hoping to get her on a 7am wu 1pm nap for 1.5hrs then a 7pm BT. Wdyt?
I think that would be great. Well, i was late and she already was in bed at 12.30. Slept for 1 hour again. I,m little confussed now but bedtime again at six? The 1 hour nap is that still ot? What i realy don t want are the nw so like you said, set bedtime at 6,30 and all naps under 1,30 bedtime 30 min earlier? Okay or not?
-
Nah I would've thought that was UT from the short A after a late wu this morning. Remember when I said about the UT/OT loop? Tbh she probably would've had a short nap at 1pm anyway after that great night.
Yep, I'd try BT at 6 and see if she sleeps a little longer to catch her up again. Depending on wu tomorrow, if it's around the 6/6.30am mark I would do nap at 12.30, otherwise if she sleep until 7 maybe try nap at 1pm?
-
Hello,
She did again great at night, just perfect no nw at al. Awake at 6,15, so she slept 12,15. Nap at 12,30 but slep only 1,10 again. So bedtime again at six? Or even earlier because the two days here for she slept more in the morning. Wdyt?
The nap now what is it ot or ut? Before she did nap better.
Anyway i am so happy with the good nights ;D ;D thanks
-
Great news about the nights!! She is starting to get less and less night sleep now though isn't she? 14hrs now 12hrs 15. Hmmmm, I'd be tempted to push BT a tad later so maybe 6.15pm?
Not too sure whether the nap is UT or OT tbh, I guess time will tell x
-
Difficult to say, but she was tired at 5 already. How can you say that soon ut, i mean do you judge this by day, that seams so quick to me. I get the feeling that we then change a lot with the bed and nap time? I don t how to explain. ::)
Any way i did put there in by six because she look tired. At tomorrow christmas .
Merry christmas ;) and many thanks for your good advice.
Come back soon :-* ;D
-
How's it going hun?
-
Hello,
Well it going good, i don t still get if i doning it write.
This is what happend:
Awake at 6,40 12,30 nap 1 hour bedtime in car at 6,30 but slept at 7,20 (busy christmas day) no nw
Awake at 5,20 fell again a sleep at 6,2o till 8 nap 12,3o 2hours??? Bedtime 6,45 (did not now what was better but because of day before and early awake we did choose this time) she cried and did slep at 7,15 maybe to early in bed no nw why now napping so long?
Awake 6,20 nap 12,30 1,20 minutes bedtime 6,20 so i was thinking good day but then we had nw at 3.30 , i can not resetle anymore. She cries till we get her out bed. We did go few times in but she didnot want to sleep till i put her in my bed then she slept. This is a problem because we then can,t sleep so we don t now what to do? So she slept till 8 but this is only because she is awake more then one hour.
Nap at 12.30 again 1 hour sleep put in her bed at six. She did now immediately sleeps. Wdyt? We had a good day but then she has nw?
So naps are not very good and one long nw of 1, 30 . Wich i don t understand, but i do see that putting her early in is helping, so i hope you have advice is she ot? When we had nw?
-
It's a hard one as Christmas is a very busy time. The night before when she went to sleep in the car was a short night, so that could be why she napped 2hrs the next day.
We have to consider that there's a lot of extra stimulation at Christmas too, so that tires them out a little more.
If you don't mind, I'm going to re read through the last few pages of the thread to get a full picture as to when the NW's happen. Back in a bit x
Ok, sometimes it's easier to see the full picture when you re read the last few months since she went to one nap. NW's for her do seem to be related to OT don't they? After a couple of nights of that, she then crashes and sleeps in till 8. What we do know is that she's great and will sleep in in the morning when she needs to. I think we should stick with that plan and perhaps ignore the clock (set nap time) and go back to A times. I think the set time would've worked if you were waking her up at the exact same time in the morning but tbh when she sleeps in she obviously needs it then you manage to get a few nights without the NW's.
If we work backwards, she goes to sleep straight away after 4.30mins A for BT. Let's keep that. Seemed 4hrs 15mins after a 2hr nap before was too soon as it took her a long while to go to sleep. See what I mean?
So the first A, this is where it's getting tricky as she gives us mixed signals. She slept the 2hrs after 4hrs 30mins but I'm presuming that could be because of the short night before it. Whereas when she's had a good night, 4hrs 30mins gives us what we think is a short UT nap of one hour. How about we look at 5.5hrs first A for a while and see?
Unfortunately this may reduce the length of your day a little, but it might help with any OT. We may find as well that we could lengthen that first A eventually too, but I just wanted to see if we can find her ideal first A, but that will mean playing around with it.
We do know that anything less that 12hrs sleep total in the day for her leads to OT. 12.5 hrs seems ok. We'll get there eventually hun, I'm sure!
-
You say she slept 2 hours because of the short night but she slept till 8?. Today she was awake at 6 and she nap 1 hour at 12,30. She did have a normal night. So it doesnt seem to me ut or ot? I really don no why her naps are even shorter then before.
I don t now if a times even are possible , this with dinner and kindergarden. Because of the early wakenings and short nap the day will be to short. As example she did wake at 1,30. We do dinner at 5 or if possible 4.30 and one milk bottle before sleeping. This is difficult to do even earlier i mean she even will not eat that early. But two days a week she goes to kindergarden and we come home at 4,30.
-
Ok, no worries hun it was just an idea. Might have to go back to the EBT for a couple of days again and see if she sleeps in and stabilises?
I have a feeling we're going to be stuck with the 1.20mins naps though, maybe that's all she needs and offer her BT 12hrs after she wakes up in the morning (like we did before), and if she wants to sleep in, then let her. She is a tough one to figure out, I tell you!! At least you're giving her the opportunity to sleep, it's up to her to do it. You're doing everything right, so it's not you ok? Any teeth that we can see yet? Molars should be on the way?
If it's any consolation I was up with DD every hour last night ::). Have a feeling we've got teething and OT from Xmas too x
-
Yes, she is so difficult. She has now 10 teeth, i believe 4 molars all came out in 3 weeks. I don t think there is more but this is difficult to tell, because we always have problems sleeping.
I am now already a few day with ebt at six. But now i have again a problem. She did awake yesterday at 6, so slept 1 hour, put her in at 6 like you said. But now she did wake at 5,20 :o she did not want to sleep any more.
So i am also thinking this early to bed is causing her to wake every day earlier. What now? If i go later the nw come back. Or was this just a coincidence. Now she has to wait till 12.30 to nap is she naps one hour this means she will be very tired at even at six. I don now what to do :-\
-
I'm going to ask for more eyes on this for you hun. I think we may have to consider the possibility she is LSN (low sleep needs). I was hesitant as she is very prone to OT, but hopefully someone with LSN experience can advise a better routine than I have x
At least we know it's not teething x
-
Ok, yes i hope somebody can advice, but it is strange because she does look tired al lot and the nw. Really hope somebody can help we finf this verry difficult. I want to bring her later tonight but really afraid she will have again a lot of nw. Anyway bring her to nap at 12. 30.
-
Hi! I have only read back a couple of pages but I have a 16 month old DD who is LSN (though not really prone to ot, more we get issues with ut!). Our day looks like this:
6:30/7:00 wake
12:30/1:00 nap for 45-60 min
8:00 bedtime
We have been doing this for a few months and the odd time we allow a longer nap she has NW or EW. Of course I think her eye teeth are coming in too! How have things been since Christmas? My normally happy kid was an OS mess from the holidays. When you say she looks tired, what is she doing that makes you think that? DD3's one and only tired sign is she sticks her right index finger in her ear. What about pushing the nap a bit later?
-
Hello,
Thank you for your reaction. She just looks tired, she hangs on my legs, hugging her stuffed animals, she rubs her eyes and yawns. Thats how i see she looks tired sometimes she gets hyperactive or she is grumpy. But is verry difficult to see if she is tired.
Before christmas she was waking up a lot in the night and a few times before six and sleeping less then 12 hours. So kellys said she is maybe ot. I put her in bed by six, if she slept longer then 1,50 then 6,30. She hardly sleeps longer then 1,15. So ebt helpt good and she began sleeping 12,30 with no nw!! Waking at 6,45 or 6,30.
But now she is weaking earlier by day, first 6, yesterday 5,20 and today 5 :-\ she is tired i am certain of that, she is awake 1 hour and then falls a sleep , sometimes not and we go down stairs. But i am now in a cycle because of her early waking, she has to wait to long for her nap at 12.30. If she wakes early she lies quiet between us, very calm till she falls a sleep, thats why i thinks she still is tired.
Also when we changed to winter time, she goes later to bed but did still wake up early, not like now 6-5 but 6-7 . In summer she did sleep till 7 or 7,30. But we had a lot of nw so she does catch up some sleep.
So some how if i change time something doesnt go wright. To late to bed can be also early wake. To soon also, so i don t now what to do. I think se is a baby lsn in day time but i think she needs 11,50/12 at night.
Today she woke at 5, fell a sleep at 6,15 till 7.50. So i was thinking now nap at 13.00. And bedtime i don t now?? I mean isn t 7 to big jump? We did close the day at 12 hours, i think that was oke. I am confussed what to do.Tips
-
So what i also wanted to say is that we had a routine of:
Wake 6,30
nap 12,30
bedtime 7 or 6,30 by less the 1,50 sleep 1 hour 30 minutes, but some how we had lot of night wakings a we were getting also ew. This looks like your routine, hoop you can see what we are doing wrong.
Now:
Early wakening 5/6 or sleep till 8
Nap 12,30 and
bed 6,30 less then 1,30 6 bedtime.
I is not that much of a different?
-
We have a much later bedtime on the same amount of nap (but it has been that time since she was 6/7 months old, have never had ebt work for us). But we don't have the tired acting stuff (in fact lately I think her nap needs more capping). You might be headed early into the 18 month sleep regression/growth spurt stuff and for that it is best to stick to the routine you are doing and ride it out. Does she have her eye teeth yet? Could also be a factor!
-
How's it going Mary?