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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Nickie18 on July 13, 2014, 03:51:56 am
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Angel baby down ti one nap at 8 months and was a great sleeper until recently...
Now sometimes at naps and more at bedtime, starts screaming as soon as I leave the room for no reason! Just crying ans screaming. I ask right way what the problem is and all he says is "yeah". lays back down, I pat his back, go to leave room and he cries again. makes no sense. No reason for crying is obvious. Let him go a few minutes, go back in, same thing. Usually goes to sleep after 10-15 minutes, but tonight screaming for 40 minutes! My hubbie was sleeping in the room with him, but I cannot as I am alone to night and have to be available for my 4 month old. I also do not want to start a bad habit...
What do I do??
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Can you post your eas?
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He woke again at 4am screaming and not consolable... finally fell asleep at 4:30am
Wake: 6:30-7
eat: 8am
Eat: 12pm
Nap: 1-3 pm (on ando ff, sometimes just in bed playing... Sometimes cries here too)
Eat snack: 4pm
Dinner: 6pm
Bed: 8pm
Maybe he is ready to ditch the nap? Maybe he just is not tired and crying to get to sleep? I would really miss nap time...
A lot of new things recently- 4 month old sister, mom going back to work soon, started day care half days twice a week. Not quite sure...
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It could IMO be a combo of those things or completely unrelated. I say that because at this age my DD (angel/textbook) did exactly the same. Though, she was not crying inconsolably as you describe - more like BT and NW shenanigans, closely followed by Naptime shenanigans. R was also having 2h nap (1-3pm) as your LO is.
reciepe? theres no magic answer but we did this. moved the nap to 1.15pm and capped at 1h45m (so WU is still the same). Kept the day no longer than 13h but was prepared for EBT in the event she as super tired or broken nap and remaining consistent - stick to the rules with a huge dollop of love and understadning. They way I figured it, she didn't even know what was plaguing her any more than I did. So I offered reassurance and if she was really upset cuddles, but to IMO as a genral rule and then exist, FASR!!!
Hth xx
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Today we tried nap at 1:30pm and he cried as soon as I left. Stopped when I entered. Just sitting in bed crying. so got him up and did quiet time in his room for an hour. I guess we will see. I will not sleep in his room and I do not want him sleeping in mine, so the other option is crying it out as a rule is a rule, but I cannot do it during the day.
Not sure what else to do...
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CIO is not IMO the answer, whatever time of day. It breaks the bind of trust between LO and their carers. We used Wi/WO and were sucesful. How about trying that?
H
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I cannot stand CIO either- but he said to me today "if I go to nap, I will cry so loud"!!! So, not sure if it is a CIO issue or if he is just crying because he does not want to be in there... Today was better:)
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Oooh, what a monkey! I think he knows what he's doing don't you? Iiwm I'd do wi/WO - it will get you back in control again and deal with the issue if him not SS.
Hon, I am sure you know, but given what you've been saying, I need to just say we cannot support any form of CC / CIO here at BW. There are methods available here that you can implement that do not adversely affect LOs in the same way CC/CIO does. Have a look at this and hopefully you will see why:
Research on why 'cry it out' and 'controlled crying' is NOT recommended!
Glad today was better xx
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What is wi/wo? I do that now when he cries... I don't just let him cry.
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Walk in /Walk out = Wi/WO
Here's a link which explains the method you may well be implementing anyway.
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick re: CIO - I wasn't sure from you posts that you weren't contplaying trying that yk?
Anyway, have a look at the link and see if that's what you have been doing or if you have any questions. How has today been?
H
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So now the sleeping has gotten worse. Doing WI/WO but now he is not crying when he goes down, just wants the lights on and door open. No crying to sleep, but will wake up 2-3 times a night wanting us and the lights on again... (we were turning them off and leaving night light on after he fell asleep). is 28 months a normal time for night terrors? he never explains why he wants the lights on and won't tell us if any nightmares... Poor guy- he is doing so well otherwise. We now ask him if he wants a nap=- sometimes yes, sometimes no.
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Hey,
Well it sounds like some progress is being made, which is great.
I don;t know about night terrors as R never had them. She's ha dthe odd bad dream where I just go in, reassure her she's ok and all is safe etc and stay for a bit if needs be.
Let me see if I can get you some more eyes from anyone whose BTDT re: night terrors - they may be of more help to you yk re: how to manage them and re-settling.
Great work on the independent sleeping though, that's fab progress
H x
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Nickie I could have written this myself. DS is 26 months and needs door open and night light on. He is waking at least once a night but sometimes 2 or 3. Sometimes he's actually awake and others he's completely disoriented. I pretty much have to wait until he's asleep before I can leave.
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Doesn't sound like night terrors -- when they have a night terror, they don't know that you're there -- it's almost like they're still asleep, but screaming through it and nothing you do really helps. It sounds like you're on the right track with working with the routine, I think you just need to keep tweaking until you get it right.
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Do you know ladies it's just occurred to me that R had sleep shenanigans at this age. She was really needy etc and would wake crying in the night. As it turned out she was cutting her molars, and that was waking her suddenly and no doubt was scary. Could it be something as simple as that?
H
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My DD has night terrors - and has for a very long time :'(.
If he is awake and crying and asking for the light on I'm not sure it is I really :-\. Night terrors are when they are stuck between wake and sleep - so screaming but not responding properly to you. My DD often doesn't respond at all, sometimes keeps calling 'mummy' even though I am there, writhes around a lot, on the few times she does speak she is far from 'with it' and what she says is very muddled and incomprehensible. She did that last night - was crying and saying she wanted a turn over and over - but was otherwise just writhing and unable to respond to questions. She is often screaming and covered in sweat.
It sounds like nightmares might be the answer, but that perhaps your LO is just a bit young to discuss and articulate it to you. Asking for the light on implies being aware and frightened of something. When my children were young I used to call them 'dream stories' or 'sleep stories' and I think they understood that better.
Both my children have needed nightlights from about age 3. Neither will have the door shut, and both will call in the night if their lights are out and it is too dark. Could that help??
Another word for night terrors is confusional arousals, and that is pretty close to what they are. In a really bad one my DD will go on and off for 1-2 hours. It is really hard :-\. If she goes on that long we usually do wake her - but that is frightening and then she is upset about that.
The only thing we have found that helps is making sure she is cool at night. Minimal clothing etc. it doesn't stop all of them, but it does help.
She currently gets about 2-3 a week, which is greatly improved from six months ago. I must admit, I find them really really hard to deal with. Thankfully DS sleeps through them all.
Sounds like OT NWings from nap dropping (which is unavoidable), and probably some fears and nightmares starting.
They do say with night terrors that you can leave them to it (and we do for a short period as waking them can be frightening and make it a lot worse). If you do go in them slow gentle soothing but still allowing it to run its course. Megan will usually just suddenly stop flailing and roll to her side and be immediately in a very deep sleep. You should avoid waking them if you can - horrid for Mama but they never remember - I only wake her if it had been 1-2 hours :'( :'( - and I do that by taking her downstairs - the sudden change in temperature will make her wake. Others say putting them on the toilet can work.
I hope your DS isn't developing them as I really do think they are one of the worst things we deal with round here. Last week she had a few in a caravan on holiday and it was awful :'(.
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You are right- does not sound like night terrors- he is fully awake and makes sense. He has all his teeth right now... Just not sure what is up. He would cry so much at nap time that we dropped it (and he also almost never fell asleep and just played) Maybe it is OT night wakings? Would you do an earlier BT then? He has been at 8pm forever... woke today at 1, 5:15 and 6am. In bed fine with light on until 7am playing. He is so tired now at night that there is no more crying and just falls asleep fast.
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Oh, we also use a gro-clock that he knows has to go on before he can leave his room-
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A lot of kids do need early bedtimes when they drop the nap.
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It may be worth trying a 12h day on NNDs to see if that helps?
H
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It may be worth trying a 12h day on NNDs to see if that helps?
H
We had 10.5-11 hr days when dropping the nap (on NND) or we had hideous OT NW or NT. Done be afraid of trying EBT as often they WU at the same time but have had an extra hour for two sleep yk? - if 8 pm is usual Bt try 6.30 or even 6 on a NND and see how it goes. You will know pretty quickly if EBT work or not ;)
Also agree, they don't sound like NT :-\ not that it makes it any less difficult for you :-*
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Thank you! So, we are doing EBT and seems to going better- he also wanted the night light on and door open (which we close after asleep) and no more crying and no more NW. He sleeps from about 7:30p-7am most of the time now. He once took a 45 minute nap in teh car and the same problems came back, so I guess no more naps! Miss the nap already... Wish we could get him down before 7:30pm, but with his 4 mo sister cannot get it done...
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That looks like good progress :) and a good night.
You may be sale to do an earlier bt once a week to so in the weekend to keep OT at bay if you need to ;)
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Last night was a 7:30pm bnedtime and he woke happy and talkative at 6am! not sure what is happening... That is not enough sleep and he refuses any nap still:( Maybe earlier BT?
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They get OT in the process of the 1-0 anyway so this could be what your seeing.
I'd go for a short day and see if he catches up overnight. Maybe 6/6.30 bt if you can't get a CN.
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OMG! Help! We are still having problems... My 28 month old now is still refusing to nap and then won't go down at EBT and then wakes at like 5am! We have to go in there to stop him from waking his little sister... The little sister who still wakes once at night for feeds- we are becoming zombies! Any ideas? Yesterday he slept until 6:30, refused a nap, fell asleep on the couch at 5pm and we only let sleep for like 15 minutes, and then at 7pm would not go to sleep... Not sure what to do...
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It sounds like you're getting quite frustrated. It can be really hard when you just don't know how to fix the problem and all you want is a little more sleep!
Having reviewed the posts, I thought you had decided to drop the nap because he was fighting it so much? It's not uncommon for LO's around your son's age to be ready to go without. Each child is different but you know your son best.
I know how concerned you are with your DS getting the appropriate amount of sleep so I've attached this link for you to have a look at. Keep in mind that this is only a rough guide, some LO's need more sleep, some less. I would say your DS sounds like he's at the lower end of the sleep needs. If he's going to sleep at 7:30pm and waking at 6:30am, that's pretty good.
Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep
What is your wind down routine with him? The only other suggestion I can make at this time is to keep track of his schedule for a week. When is he waking? When does he go to sleep? Does he sneak in a cat nap at some point during the day? This will allow you to see any patterns and getting a better idea of how to tweak DS's routine.
Hope this helps!
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Thank you laura- we still put him in his crib for "nap/quiet time" but he usually doesn ot nap. Just gives us a little down time for the baby. he is so very obviously tired and just fights sleep. if we are in teh car, he will always fall asleep. We try to do EBT but I get home at 6:30pm from work and it is very hard to get him in bed by 7pm, but we do it. he always wants the light on and teh door open. This am he awoke at 5am and then went back to sleep until 7pm after bed at 7:15pm. He is a very low sleep needs kiddo it seems. Dropped to one nap at 8 months! But it is just so hard when you can clearly see how tired he is and he will not nap. And he is only sleeping about 11 hours a day eve nwith EBT and is so fussy at night. he is such a great kid, but the nap is just not there anymore. And I cannot get him in bed any before 7pm.
Wind down- ideal day- dinner at 6pm, ipad while we feed baby from 6:30-7pm, bath at 7pm, brush teeth, jammies, books in bed, cuddle, lights off execpt for table lamp, turn on white noise, scout plays for 10 minutes of music and then sleep sack and into bed by 7:30pm and asleep quickly. same thing we have done for 2 years...
I will keep track of waking and sleep patterns and se if there is anything there.
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So, since Iwas home yesterday, I noticed he gets very tired around 3pm. I am thinking of trying the nap at 3 or 3:30pm for one hour, then a late bedtime? He woke at 5am today after EBT at 7am... He is no longer crying now with the small light on... What do you think?
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It's totally up to you. Personally I wouldn't introduce a nap at a new time, especially since he's fighting the current nap. It's important to keep in mind that whatever you try, you need to keep in place for AT LEAST a week if not longer, before you make any other changes. Otherwise you'll never know if it actually works or not.
The other thing I was going to suggest was replacing the iPad time with playdough or duplo blocks, something a little less stimulating so close to bed time. You mentioned that it helps keep him occupied during feeding time for your other LO. Is your partner around at that time to spend some quality time with DS before bed? I know it's recommended that adults don't go on the computer for 2 hours before bed, I imagine the same rules would apply to LO's. Removing the iPad may help him wind down a little more quickly. Just a thought.
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Thank you- worth a shot... I think we will do anythign ot get him to sleep later- we both work full time and we fee llike zombies with him and our 5 month old sleeping patterns...
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So, we have been putting him down for nap at 3pm and he usually sleeps from 3:15-4:15pm wothout crying. It has been wonderful that he is not so fussy. He dos stay up until 8pm now since he is less tired. Waking around 6am which is better but wish it was later. wakes coughing soI think that has something to do with it... If he still wakes early the next morning, should we shorten the nap? He wakes up himself at one hour and cries a little...
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I would personally hold the nap a week and see if he settles into that routine...if not then re-evaluate? What do you think?
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Just to let you know you are not alone we are having the same behaviour here and EW so I'm wondering if it's a developmental thing! We have all molars as well but DS been chewing and drooling so I wonder if teeth might move about at times.
I work too so I feel your pain yesterday 4.30am start needed matchsticks to prop my eyes open at my desk lol....big hugs hun must be exhausting with younger one too!!
This too shall pass (we hope ;) ) xx
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Well, we started doing the nap later in the afternoon and with a bribe of jelly beans, he has started naping again. He is so much betterw ith a nap. slept until 7 am this morning. we limit the nap to one hour, and he stays up a little later like 8-8:30pm, but would rather he nap and stay up later than wake at 5am! I guess we will see how long this lasts...