BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: thebug on August 01, 2014, 04:08:11 am
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Wow am I so glad I found this site! We are all over the place with sleep, naps, feedings and I need some help making sense of it all.
We did some mild sleep training from BW and other sources when our son was about six months old (he's now 1 year). We got him to a good enough place that worked for us but it included nursing to sleep. In addition to nursing to sleep, he woke once or twice a night to nurse but that was fine with me b/c he went back to sleep so easily it was really not a big deal. Recently he started waking around 2am and wanting to play play play! (sometimes up to 2 hours!) Or waking up once/night but then getting up at 4-5am and rearing to go. I realized that we were still on the three naps a day (in part due to his early mornings). So, I set his bedtime earlier and have been a stickler about only two naps a day, which seems to have eliminated the NW but he's still up at 5am every single morning.
I really don't want to do anything drastic but I also realize that at this point we need to be a little more firm and I finally have my husbands buy in on a more set schedule.
My goals are to -
- put him to sleep drowsy so he can conceivably put himself back to sleep if he wakes in the middle of the night
- eliminate night feedings. I'm trying to wean anyway so I am producing less and want to eliminate the crutch.
- sleep in til 6 or 7
Part of our problem is that we travel a lot. We're in our mountain condo every weekend and then travel to see family 1/month (diff time zones). He sleeps much better in his crib at home than in his PnP. Tonight it took me 2 1/2 hours to get him down (we're in the mtns and he's in his PnP). Finally I gave him a bottle and he fell asleep with that. I wonder if I'm producing so little now that he needed the extra milk? Or maybe just was getting revved up by my presense.
Anyway, I'll peruse around and hope to find some answers. Thanks so much for having this site here!
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Hello,
Could you post your typical day (when awake and asleep)?
It might be that he's ready to switch to one nap (on in the transition) if you're getting EWs .
You might find this link helpful:
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
Also, how does he usually fall asleep for naps and at BT. Does he always nurse/feed to sleep?
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Yes, he always nurses to sleep. There have been a handful of times I've been able to put him down drowsy, keep my hand on his back with some shusshes and then quietly exit the room. A couple of times he's been able to even put himself to sleep in the crib but its been rare.
Typical day:
4-5am Wake and nurse
Sometimes I can get him back to sleep, sometimes we're up.
7ish - breakfast (depending on when he got up)
8-9am - naptime depending on when he got up (typically naps for 60-70 minutes)
activity inside or a walk
11:30 lunch
12:30-1ish nap (around an hour; this nap is sometimes tougher to get)
2:30 snack
outdoor activity (swing at the park, pool time - which gets the best night time sleep)
5:30 dinner
6:30 bedtime
We only just recently moved from 3 naps to 2, and as part of that moved his bedtime from 7:30 to 6:30. This all seems to have helped eliminate the consistent NW or EMW but its still happening too frequently.
Thanks so much for any input
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I forgot to ask - how old is he exactly? You say 1 yr. What's his age in months?
Looking at your routine I wonder actually if he's OT by BT - it's quite a long stretch after a 1hr nap, esp if he's only just turned 1.
I'd also try and push his first nap later. Such an early nap can cause EWs (some days you say you can't resettle him after 4/5 am).
When you travel - what is the time difference? Do you shift his routine or keep him on "home" time? If the time difference isn't much (just one hour?) and you do it a lot, it might just be easier to keep his routine the same even if you move - so don't adjust it for the new zone iyswim.
Re the nursing to sleep - is that something you want to tackle now or not? It might help if you can stop it with the NFs. GW is usually best for that. There is a link about it in the FAQs if you want to have a look and then let us know if you have any specific qns.
Hope that helps! X
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He's 12 months and 2 weeks.
I definitely think I should tackle the nurse to sleep along with the NW and EMW. I just feel like if we're gonna do it, we need to do it all at once. And in theory, shouldnt the removal of a crutch and creation of self soothing to sleep help him in the middle of the night or early mornings?
When we travel, we stay in the same time zone. We have four trips coming up this fall that are out of our timezone but I usually try to keep him on schedule as best as possible. While we do stay in the same timezone, he sleeps in a pack in play in our mtn house - which I've decided he hates. I'm going to get a mattress for the pack n play to see if that will help.
I'm going to poke around and see what others are doing for a schedule. Based on his age and the loose schedule I posted below, do you think we should stay on two naps?
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Yes, in theory, if he call fall asleep at BT and for naps without nursing then this may help him resettle if he wakes during the night.
Since he's only just 12 mos and you've only just switched to 2 naps, I wouldn't rush him to one nap just yet. But I would think about aiming for one short nap and one long nap. With EWs, ppl often find it helps to cap the am nap but you can do the other way round. I'd try pushing his first nap to 9am at the earliest and cap at 45 mins. This should hopefully give you a longer 2nd nap so he won't have such a long A time til BT. WDYT?
I also wonder if currently his 2nd nap is hard to get cos he's not quite tired enough for it. Another option could be to push am nap to 9 but not cap. But also push pm nap later to achieve short a time til BT. WDYT?
It might be a bit of trial and error to find what suits.
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Thank you! That is exactly what I'm trying today. We got him back to sleep after a 4:30 and 5:30 AM waking. He slept until 7:15 so we'll try for a 10am AM nap and then push PM nap to 2pm? I'm also going to do a high energy activity after the AM nap and again after PM nap. It's been so hot here that sometimes we just play inside but I'm going to try for the park and pool today to see if we can work on wearing him out. Thanks so much! I'll report back in a few days.
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Nap times went great today. He went down so easily for the PM nap when I pushed it to 2pm. He didn't sleep as long as he normally would but only b/c an outside noise woke him up. I feel like this schedule will work and I'm going to stick with it for two weeks to assess if it will eliminate EMW and NW.
I am going to need help with the ST too though. lol :-[
Tonight we tried to start wi/wo. He was a total hysterical mess. I tried three times and then just couldn't do it anymore. I felt like I didn't have enough of a plan. I tried reading my BW book - I have the original one. Is there one for toddlers too?
Anyway, he was sobbing so hard after three WI's, that I finally just gave up and snuggled him to sleep in the rocker. He was still shaking and sobbing as he fell asleep. How many WI's is it supposed to take? All night? How many nights? I really dont think that GW will be any better for us.
Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks so much!
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That's great the new nap times worked well :)
If he hasn't settled independently before then I wouldn't use WIWO. GW would be more appropriate.
There is a link here explaining it:
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
Since you are nursing to sleep, a first step could be to rouse him slightly after BFing before putting him down. WDYT?
Yes, there is a toddler book. Also the BW solves all your problems. I can't remember which covers GW and u fortunately my copies aren't accessible ATM. I'll ask the other mods if they know.
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So apparently "The babywhisperer solves all your problems" is the book to look at - the chapter called "we're still not getting enough sleep". The method described is GW although I don't think it's actually called that in the book.
You also might find this link helpful:
PANTLEY'S GENTLE REMOVAL PLAN
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How are things going?
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So we're doing better in some respects and worse in others. I will try to summarize this past week, what we're doing now and then summarize my questions at the bottom.
This past week he's slept through the night 4 out of 5 nights. Which is great. So happy and proud of him! I've decided to put off the ST until after Labor Day b/c we are only home for a few days at a time. I feel like no need to ST him at our summer mountain cabin since the lease is over Labor Day weekend. So what we're focusing on is 2 naps at around 9 or 10 am and then around 2pm. I'm still nursing to sleep (more on that later). And then early-ish to bed at around 6:30-7pm.
However, he's still waking up at 5-6am almost every morning. Rarely do I get him back to sleep anymore. Some mornings (like this morning) he's so exhausted by 7am that I put him back down to sleep. It feels cruel to try to keep him up. This happens about once a week so not a huge deal, but I'm unclear on what to do when he's up so early and wants to take an early morning nap at 7am. Do I then have three naps these days? Or do I try to pull the afternoon nap in earlier and then just earlier to bedtime?
Our naptime and bedtime routine is turning into a circus act. lol The past three days he's nursed, flip-flopped around on me like I'm a jungle gym and I'm holding out hope that he'll settle down, then I put him in the crib, he's sometimes drowsy/sometimes riled up, then he cries as I leave the room. I make a bottle, go back in after a couple minutes, give him the bottle, he drinks it all, falls asleep and I put him in the crib. While its possible he's not getting enough milk from me, I'm full at the beginning and soft/empty at the end, so I have to assume he's getting breastmilk. I'm also feeling like I should wean more so I'm OK to go to straight bottle at nap and bedtime.
Last night, following the circus act, we just left him in his crib with some of his lovies and he just flip flopped around with them for awhile and then fell asleep on his own. We were psyched! He's been able to do this only about 6 times total, so I know its possible, but just not a habit yet. Should we still focus on GW instead of WI/WO?
I will get the books you mentioned to see if that can help too. I've put off the ST since we're still going to the mountains every weekend and then on the east coast for a week over Labor Day. Just seems like we should do this when we can be home and be consistent for a long period. Or maybe I'm just putting it off ;) Overall, I feel like we've really benefitted just from the tips you gave so far - two naps, 10 and 2, keeping bedtime earlier.
So to summarize my questions:
- how do I handle days when he's up SO early and clearly exhausted by 7 am-ish? Do I try to keep him up? Or put him down, in which case, how do I handle the afternoon nap and bedtime timing?
- how do I eliminate the circus act? is this a sign that he's not tired enough?
Thank you for all your help!
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Yay for the STTN :)
How long does he nap for at each nap now, and what time does he fall asleep at BT? Then I can answer your qns a bit better.
Sounds like he could be a touch UT with the "circus act" and poss also the EWs are after he's had enough sleep now so we might need to tweak a little more. The EWs could also be due to him not being an independent sleeper yet. All LOs (and adults too I think) naturally go into a phAse of lighter sleep early in the morning and if he's not an independent sleeper then he may wake up then and not go back to sleep. This is quite common.
Since he has self-settled you could give WIWO a go but if he's getting really upset then Id def go for a more gentle route. The pantley's gentle removal plan link I posted works really well at breaking a feed-to-sleep association but LO does need to actually be tired when you put them down.
On days where LO is crying out for a nap so early then yes, you may need to squeeze in a final CN to get a reasonable BT without ot.
Does your LO have a lovey? Now might be a good time to introduce one and see if he'll take to it (not all LOs do so don't worry if not). Also, do you have a consistent wind-down routine before naps and BT?
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I agree with you that the circus act must be due to being UT. It feels like we have such a fine line between UT and OT!
Naps start usually between 9 and 10 AM. They typically last for an hour, although I'm seeing longer naps in the morning since going to two naps total for the day. Afternoon naps start between 1 and 2 PM. They also last for an hour, sometimes up to 75 minutes. But most days you could literally set a clock for a 60 minute nap and then he's up. We don't have a routine for nap other than sit in the rocking chair, cuddle, and nurse to sleep/drowsy.
BT is usually around 6:30 PM. Our BT routine most nights is bath, book, cuddling in the rocking chair, nursing (oops, havent stopped this yet :-[) until asleep or drowsy, singing the good night song, and then into bed. On the nights he's drowsy and puts up a fuss we end up going back in with a bottle and he will drink it all before falling back asleep. I must not be making enough milk anymore. :(
He doesnt have a lovey yet. We've introduced a few and he's not attached to any of them. Back in January we did a very modified ST combination of Pantleys and CC. He took right to the lovey then, but couldn't care less about it now.
He's still mostly STTN (yay!) but EW. Our goals after Labor Day (once we'll be home for a long period of time) is to work on self soothing to sleep and figuring out how to get rid of EW.
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Hi
Sorry for not replying sooner - we were away for a long weekend here.
Naps start usually between 9 and 10 AM. They typically last for an hour
If you're still getting EWs then I'd try not putting him down before 9.30 am and see if that helps. Often a "cure" for EWs is moving the am nap later/making sure it's not too early, AND/OR capping it.
However, if he's asleep at 7pm, say, and then up at 6am, then that is 11 hours and so not really an EW at all as he's probably just had all the night sleep he needs (esp if STTN).
The 60 min naps could be UT. IIWM and since you want to move WU later, I would try capping the morning nap at 45 mins and then see if you get a longer pm nap. Another option could be to try the pm nap 15-30 mins later and see if that gets you a longer nap. (Just try one thing at a time though) That would mean you could do a later BT and then (possibly) get a later WU. Of course, this wouldn't all happen in one day but if you stuck with it for a few days then you might start to see a later WU.
On the nights he's drowsy and puts up a fuss we end up going back in with a bottle and he will drink it all before falling back asleep. I must not be making enough milk anymore. :(
I don't think this necessarily means you're not making enough milk at all. Lots of BF babies will drink a whole bottle if offered because it is so easy and he probably likes the comfort of it to help fall asleep, rather than actually being hungry.
How do you think you'll approach the STing? IIWM I'd prob try Pantley's gentle removal plan again (I'm actually using it with H at the moment who is 7 mos as I've let BFing become a bit of a prob and it seems to be working quite well) but def no CC (which, as you prob know, BW is against). Not sure when Labor Day is sorry so don't know if you've started any of this yet?
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OK, thanks for all the advice. I think I'll try capping the morning nap today so we'll see how that goes. So hard to imagine actually waking him up out of a nap but this morning we have plans to go to a gym with friends so hopefully he'll get past the cranky stage and just start playing :) I signed us up for a couple of classes this Fall that should be fun but will also make later nap times difficult. Due to the classes, I will either need to have an early nap and cap it, or most nap time way later. I think I'll start with capping it for this week and see how it goes.
After our last vacation, it took us a full two weeks to get back on our time zone even though we were only two time zones away! (that is why I didnt reply sooner b/c I didnt want to do anything when I knew his internal clock was all screwed up). But the past couple of nights he has STTN, or woken at 4am but gone back down with a bottle. We have one more trip and then we're home for 3 straight weeks. As soon as we are home for this longer stretch I will start the gentle removal plan as we put him down, and will start watering down the early AM bottle so as to decrease any reliance on those calories.
I'll check in and let you know how it goes. Thank you for all your help!
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Sounds like a good plan. I always feel better when I have a plan in place :)
Keep us posted how it's going x
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Ugh, I feel like we are back to square one. Maybe even worse off than before.
I simply can't even get close to the crib without him throwing a total fit. I try to put him in and keep my hands on him to rub his back and he just stands up and screams bloody murder while reaching out for me. As all my previous posts show, we travel a lot (sometimes same timezone, sometimes one or two timezones away.) We just got back from the holidays (11 days traveling one time zone away) and he's completely off schedule. Add to that he got his first molar in, so I'm wondering if another one is on its way?!
Anyway, I dont know what to do. He's almost 18 months and is waking up in the middle of the night still, wont go in the crib unless he's passed out completely and is napping like crap. I can only get a good nap in the car. Most other times he's only napping 40 minutes (2x/day.) I'm sure he's OT but dont know how to break the cycle?!
Thanks so much for any input!
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(((Hugs))) that sounds very tough.
How long has he been so upset by the crib?
Do you give any meds for teething? If so, does that help at all?
Could you post what your last few days have been like in terms of awake and sleep times?
What's his mood like during the day eg happy, clingy, easily upset, calm...?
There is a big WW and dev leap around 17-18 mos and I know with my DD1 sleep went *really* wonky for a few weeks then. But once she was through the turmoil we were able to get back on track. It doesn't help much, but lots of ppl have big sleep troubles (a sleep regression) at around this age (there is a support thread above for it too).
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Thank you! I will check out the support thread for sleep regression. I think that's probably part of it, but I also think that with our holiday travels he got into some bad habits and that's building together to create a sleep problem. I will try to answer all your questions - so this may be a bit lengthy. Also since we've only been back home for four nights I will post what's happened since returning but also what happened prior to traveling as I *assume* we could get back to that.
Being this upset by the crib has been for a couple of months now. I'm the only one that can put him down. I wait until he's fast asleep and then gently transfer. There was a brief moment in time that he would go in drowsy but that was so long ago. Also I used to be able to put him down and rub his back, but those days are over. With anyone else putting him down he will wail as soon as they try to transfer him. So my husband simply wont put him to bed unless I'm at my wits end, and our babysitter (twice per week) will just let him sleep on her (not good.)
For teething we gave him Motrin last night but it didnt seem to help. He fought sleep for 2.5 hours while I held and rocked him. He tried everything to not go to sleep - first he was hungry, then wanted another book, then wanted milk, wanted to bang on my chest, pet my hair, yadda yadda. I could see his eyes getting heavy and then he'd pounce awake and have a burst of energy. Sweet boy did give me lots of hugs and kisses :) Then of course he was awake from 1-3:30am, and then woke this morning at 6:30. Ugh.
While we were on vacation for 11 days, his BT was all over the place. I simply had too much family and we had too many events to try to get him in bed early. I did make sure that he got an hour nap in the AM and an hour nap in the PM so that he'd get some decent sleep.
Before traveling his schedule was roughly like this:
4:30-5:30AM Wake (yes this is crazy early and a problem in itself)
Btwn 7:30-8:30 Start morning nap for 40-60 minutes (used to always be an hour but lately was self waking at 40 minutes)
Around 1-2pm Start afternoon nap for 45-60 minutes
Around 6:30-7pm Start bedtime. We were doing earlier for awhile and it was hit or miss on if it helped him sleep longer. Tried later a few times and that was also hit or miss.
Up until recently he has been a happy go-lucky kid, so I always felt like he was getting the sleep he needed (even if it wasn't great for us to have him wake so early). But the past several weeks he's been more clingy and needy during the day. He is such a snuggler, he just wants to be picked up, held and loved on. I love that about him but have noticed a change in his neediness during the day (as well as separation anxiety has increased as well.)
Like I mentioned he always had pretty good mood during the day so I didnt sweat being on a strict schedule, and felt like he was getting the sleep he needed. But now it doesnt' feel that way anymore and frankly we are exhausted with his sleep issues - taking hours to go to sleep, waking for up to 2-3 hours in the middle of the night, and then EMW.... and all at the same time, he must be exhausted! I am hopeful the middle of the night waking is due to teething and traveling issues, but then we're still left with a circus act to get him to sleep and waking at an ungodly hour.
Thanks so much. Sorry that was a novel!
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Sorry to add but also want to ask how to handle him sleeping on me. He won't transfer this morning so I'm stuck in the rocking chair in the nursery!
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With such a long day I can see why you're letting him have two naps but maybe that is part of the problem and he's in a bit of an UT-ot loop. I also think that that very early am nap is reinforcing the ews.
Have you seen this link about the 2-1 transition?
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
Since you have an EW on your hands, I'd try pushing the am nap to around 9.30 and also capping it at say 30 mins (or less). Then watch for tired signs and try for another (hopefully longer) nap in the afternoon. As wu hopefully moves later you can cap the am nap even more until it's gone completely. The am nap should be just enough sleep to get him through until after lunch for his long main nap.
Re STing, since these props have been going on for a while now I think you'll have to use GW. This is explained here:
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
There are also some good ideas here which you can apply to bt and nap times:
HELP YOUR BABY TO FALL BACK TO SLEEP ON HER OWN
Have a read of them and let me know if you have any questions.
At around this age I tried GW with my dd1 and gave up on my first attempt cos she just got sooo upset. However, a couple (?) of weeks later she seemed much happier and less clingy generally (she was through the big developmental leap) and when I tried GW again then, it worked in a week. So I'd say if you think he's not really ready for GW yet, then you could wait until he's in a happier place generally as you'd be more likely to have quicker success then. Wdyt?
The not wanting to transfer could also be if he's a bit UT when you're trying for a nap. Ppl often get more resistance when LO is not fully tired and ready to nap.
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Oh my gosh, thank you for all the help. I'm tearing up just reading this in hopes we can get back on track. We tried only one nap before the holidays and he just wasn't ready for it. I like your method and explanation so am thinking well give it a go again starting today.
He STTN last night thanks to friends birthday party at a kids play area. He was so tired - took awhile to fall asleep but then slept til 5:45! I think my plan needs to include heavy activity late in the afternoon.
Should I start all these or just one at a time? Like maybe get on one nap first and then do the GW?
Last question - should I bring BT in earlier? Or keep it at 6:30?
Thank you thank you thank you!!!
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That's great that he sttn! Physical activity in the afternoon often works really well at helping toddlers to sleep well :)
It's up to you really whether you just work on modifying his routine for now or if you work on GW too. What's your gut feeling about it?
If his second nap is short then yes, you might have to bring bt a bit earlier (ESP if his day started really early too) but it depends. If he does a good second nap after lunch then he should last until that bedtime I'd have thought. With all these things though it can be a bit of trial and error until you find what works. At this age though, I think you could be pushing to one nap quite quickly.
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Heavy activity in the afternoon is key! STTN again last night but woke at 4:10am. Ugh! Do I still push for a nap at 9:30? That seems so long to wait. He's going to be exhausted! We are shortening the morning nap to 30 min now and will gradually reduce. The afternoon nap length has been hit or miss on length - between 50-90 minutes. Hoping that we can increase that and get him the sleep he needs.
When I do an early bedtime we go straight from dinner to bath to bedtime routine. He's so wound up still when I'm trying to read to him and get him to sleep. I was worried about doing dinner any earlier tho b/c I was worried he'd wake up hungry. (Which does sometimes happen and we're trying to break that habit). Hopefully this is a temporary problem as we regulate everything.
Last concern (for now-hah) - i am feeling like GW is going to be harder than WI/WO. He will scream as I put him in his crib and I'm just standing there. I always PU but need to figure out how to get him in crib calmly before I try GW. Thoughts?
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I'm so sorry I thought I'd replied to you but I've just seen I hadn't.
How are things going and what have the last few days looked like?
Can he last until 9.30 after such an EW?
Since he's shown you he can STTN I think key is to shorten the am nap and keep it as late as possible before dropping it entirely. At this age, ESP after STTN, he should be able to do say 5hr A time.
How is the evening routine going? Yes, hopefully the ebts should be temporary but I'd try offering dinner say 10-15 mins earlier on those days as it might just keep things a bit calmer for you. If he's had some physical activity then he'd prob still be ready for it.
Re GW, are you trying to put him in the crib wide awake now? Maybe get him a bit sleepy (almost asleep) first and then try, and gradually reduce how sleepy he is when you put him down. Does that make sense?
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To be honest I haven't even tried GW yet. He is getting two molars right now and I know it's bothering him.
Right now I wait until he's totally passed out to transfer. Anything less and he pops up and starts screaming. So I guess my question is how do I bandle that when we're ready to start GW? I had really wanted it to be this week but the timing isn't great with the teething.
We all got sick yesterday so I'll have to start again tmrw with the shorter first nap. today is sleep city! Lol tonight is gonna be a nightmare but he's still getting over this so I have to let him sleep. But we're down to 25" morning nap and then afternoon nap starts at 1pm. He's only sleeping for an hour still in the afternoon.
I did buy the book awhile ago but can't find it. Need to update myself on the exact steps of GW.
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Yeah, prob best to wait for the molars before starting GW, and let him catch up on sleep while he's ill.
The naps sound good though. Have you had any luck with moving wu later?
His second nap will prob lengthen as you cut the morning nap more. He's prob not quite tired enough to nap any longer for it
At this age tbh even with GW I think you might have to accept a bit of crying when you start putting him down awake and not totally asleep. However, if you're consistent and just comfort him in his cot (eg with pd if he stands, your voice and/or shhing, a hand on him, maybe patting) then he will accept that this is the new way. You can then reduce the amount of assistance you give him from there.
I hope you're all feeling better soon x
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We've had some success! We are now putting down drowsy at BT and have a little crying but it's minimal. He's still waking in the MOTN though. Not every night but most nights. I try to go in and reassure him but he really wants help getting back to sleep.
My biggest issue is naps. He gets up SO early and is in need of a catnap by 9ish, sometimes earlier. He will pass out and then is super sleepy when we wake him. We do stroller naps in the AM b/c I don't want to deal with the crying and putting down process of it's for such a short time.
Then in the afternoon we have a heck of a time getting him to go down. He really puts up a major fight. And today he wouldn't nap at all!
How do I get naptime as consistent as bedtime? Also should I just move to one nap each day, and let it be earlier and don't do an afternoon nap but then being BT in earlier? We can't seem to figure this out!
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That's great you're having some success with nights now :)
Could you post what time he wakes up, naps (and how long) and then what time you try for the pm nap, how long he naps for and then what time is BT? That'll make it easier to advise. He might be UT for the pm nap which could be why he resists it so much.
You're right, one option might be to go for one nap and EBT, then when that's established, work on shifting your whole day later. but that one nap would have to be quite a bit later than 9am :-\
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OK, here is today's schedule thus far. This isn't that different than usual.
5:30am: Wake (sometimes up around 4-4:45am)
Sometime between 9:30 and 10:30: 1st nap. Usually I cap the AM nap at 15-20 minutes max. Today he was inconsolable so I had to let him sleep earlier - around 8:15 but that is unusual. Hopefully we don't pay for it tonight!
11:30-12noon : Lunch
12:30-1pm : Begin 2nd nap. (It takes me about 30-40 minutes to get him to sleep. I have to do some form of CC because my presence in the room is so upsetting and stimulating to him. Today it took me 40 minutes to get him to sleep and then he only slept for 20 minutes! Ugh. Normally he'll sleep 30-40 minutes.
6:30pm: Bedtime routine, and in bed by 7pm. While he will fall asleep during book time, he cries when we put him in bed. He will cry about 12 minutes max and then fall asleep.
He wakes up around 3am and we go in once to comfort him.
Thank you for your help. I'm at a loss. I hate all the crying but I don't feel like I have another way out of this. Anytime I show my face in the room he ramps it up and screams harder and jumps up and down for me to get him out.
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Hi there, I think he's prob ut for his second nap, hence all the difficulty you're having (and the resulting short nap).
Maybe try putting him down 30 mins later and see if that helps. If you find that's still no good, maybe try capping first nap at 10 mins.
Also, just wanted to check what you mean by "some form of CC"? As you may know, bw doesn't believe in CC because it breaks the bond of trust between LO and parent. However, if you mean you're doing WIWO (see FAQ board if you're not sure what I mean) then that would be different as you'd be listening to your LO and going in when you hear an "I need you" cry. Lots of LOs settle better without a parent's presence and so of course you don't have to stay with them if their just making settling cries rather than I need you cries. Another option rather than WI is to try shhing or saying a sleepy phrase from your lo's door if/when they get upset.
However, hopefully if you try putting him down a bit later you'll get less resistance.
WDYT?
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Yes of course what I'm doing is WIWO and not leaving him to cry. What I find is he's suoer upset when I'm there and for a few minutes after I leave. Then he ramps down and just does a "protest" cry which then turns into a tired cry. He will stay sitting up in his crib doing tired cry for a long time! He fights sleep so hard at NT but not BT. I'm conflicted on how frequently to go in at NT b/c it seems upsetting to him. But yes I try to decipher cries and go in as he needs me. I'm so making sure to give LOTS of extra connection time during awake periods so as to protect our strong bond.
I will keep trying to push that AM nap back. Question for you - as we're still transitioning off two naps, should I do the second nap based off when he wakes up from first nap? Or should I do the nap based on when I want him to be going down for second nap?
Thank you! I did check out the 2-1 transition thread but doesn't seem very active?!
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My other question is how do I extend naps? He's only napping in the afternoon for 20 minutes!
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Hmm. I'm wondering if it's time to go cold turkey now to one nap since your LO is about 18 mos now (is that right?). I'm going to ask the other mods what they think... Will get back to you!
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Oh yuck, those are some early mornings!
Just popping on to offer my perspective. I think Cath is right that now may be the time to jump to one nap, your LO is the right kind of age for it and I wonder if hanging onto two naps for perhaps a touch too long has ended you up where you are now.
If 5.30am is a typical WU right now I would probably set your naptime at 10.30am to begin with with set BT at 5.30pm. Very quickly (as in over a week or two) I would be looking to push that to at least 11am/6pm, and then to 11.30/6.30pm or whatever works for you. With set times we often suggest if you get a stupidly EW then you can bring nap earlier by 15 mins, but no more, and up to 30 mins for BT if the nap is a complete disaster ie less than an hour.
Set times in general will lead to some short-term OT but if you stick with it for a week or two you should start to see improvements, or at least be able to resettle an EW.
What do you think?
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Just wanted to add that ITA with this suggestion ^^^
Short am nap and aiming for long pm isn't working so I think it's time for the am nap to go.
What do you think? Will you give it a try? How has the weekend been ?
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I'm totally on board with this idea. We will start tmrw. Weekend was the same but was so busy i couldn't do the early long nap either day. Thankfully he had two good afternoon naps on sat and sun, so should start the week off rested.
Thank you guys SOOO much! Really hoping this does it! Our BT is down to book, song, put in crib, rub back for one minute and leave. He lets out one or two protest cries but then falls asleep. He's still sitting up in the MOTN (@3:30) but goes back down. Hopefully well eliminate that too. Crossing fingers!!!
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Great :) sounds like BT is going v well.
Keep us posted with how things are going with one nap. :)
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Good luck!