BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: AMJ on August 06, 2014, 06:06:06 am
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Hi everyone.
I am back here with a similar problem as before. We were on a set nap 11am, 7:00 BT but after a good week or so the nap would get shorter so would the nights. So I tried EBT,I've tried moving the nap to 11:30 and even 12 to get a later WU (it's between 5-6 am , 6 rarely) and a better nap which would give us 2hrs nap for some time but again the nap and night would start to get shorter and shorter and DD would get more and more OT. Then I tried following A times of 5hrs, 5.5hrs even 6hrs and at first we would get a good 2hr nap but again slowly the nap would get shorter so would the nights and OT would accumulate. I tried following the previous advice by sticking to the same nap time but giving an early BT which would somewhat work after a couple of days but then the new EBT becomes the normal BT and the OT creeps in again. I tried moving the BT back to 7 but that would just cause DD longer to fall asleep and short nights.
Also for the past weeks or so we've been having multiple early night cries where she would resettle on her own right away but then also she would have over 1hr WU during the night were she would either chat or just lay quietly or look like she is falling asleep but then let out few cries because she can't.
She is teething but I give her meds.
Does this ever get better and do they ever stop getting OT which effects their sleep so much? DD is not good at catching up.
Thanks in advance
P. S. Also hoping to get a quick advice on what to do today with her nap and BT. She had a horrible night- multiple cries in the early night then awake from 11:35 PM to 1:00am then awake again at 2:30 ish and here in not sure how long she was awake and how long she actually slept because she would get quiet then toss and turn and make whining noises for very long time( probably until 4:00 ish Am). The awake at 4:50am (BT was at 6:15pm)
Thanks so much
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So I got her down for a nap at 10:55am and she was awake at 11:33am. 38m nap? Omg. It's just getting worse and worse.
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Hello dear,
I'm not one of the experts, but here's my two cents. My babe is OT kind of all the time. I tried set naps, and he was waking earlier and earlier, too. This is what was happening with him: The first A was getting longer and longer, up to 6 hrs (at 18mos old) and he would crash nap just fine, but then I would wake him after 2 hrs. This was to keep day sleep from robbing night sleep, but by BT he was always OT. No matter what time I put him to bed. That first A and capped nap just did him in, and it was a vicious cycle b/c he would *keep* waking earlier and earlier b/c of OT.
When he was really, really OT, he would wake up from the nap before 2 hrs. For the longest time I thought he was UT, not OT.
So I stopped the set naps, and refocused on A time. When I kept the first A to 5.5, he was much more restored for that 2 hour nap, and BT was easier.
The other thing: when a night is really really bad (10.5 or less), I put him to bed at the 10 total A mark, or even 9:30A. He still takes forever to go to sleep, shuffling for 30m or more if he's extremely OT, but when he finally does go to sleep, his total A is small enough for him to actually work out the OT. It sounds like you've tried this, and it shifted the sched early. Sadly, I'm not sure what to say about that. Sounds like me: constantly swinging between UT and OT, and the 'sweet spot' is so incredibly small, it's impossible to find it.
Best regards,
Amanda
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Hi Amanda.
Thanks so much for your reply! Our LOs are very alike it seems. Whatever you are describing with your LO is exactly what is happening with DD. It's a vicious cycle.
I will try to go back to A times but how do I do it with such an early WU? It seems that an early nap would reinforce the EWU.
Oh wow 10hr total A, that's dangerous! We've been there and got to 4/4:30 am consistent WUs. For example today she was up at 4:50am then 6hrs of A and after a broken down nap wich ended at 12:24pm her BT would need to be 4:30pm.
How did your LOs day look? Example WU 6am, S 11:30-1:30, BT 6?
Thanks so much!
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Hi there,
Well, it takes a few days usu. to shift to a normal WU time. (Not that I have it all figured out AT ALL, but I think I can pretty well get him out of the OT hole faster than I used to.) I'm not quite sure how we got from 5:30 OT EW to me having to wake him up at 7:40. Some of it is he just plain crashed, and another bit b/c he's getting older and more resilient. But things really really did get better after I shortened that first A.
Your sample sched looks about right...
The thing I've found about putting to bed super early, is if they are really OT, it takes them forever to actually fall asleep. So that adds to the A time.
Here's an example:
10hr night. No WUs, but I've found that 10hrs is definitely an OT EW. I figure he was too exhausted to wake up and cry.
6:45am, I resettled and he snoozed to 7 (I don't count this as sleep).
12pm in bed, 2p I woke him.
6:25pm in bed without much fuss or objections, he started trying to settle quickly, just needed some reassurance. He shuffled around for almost an hour, falling asleep at 7:15.
The total A was 10:25. He did an 11:30 nt that night. So he woke up at 6:45 still the next morning, but at least he was well rested and I could work with that (in theory).
Another thought... I hope it's not horrible to suggest this.. for a 4:30am WU (that's so so crazy--I'm sorry!), maybe it's better to stick to the schedule a bit and just let DD crash it out. I've never done this on purpose, but on accident plenty of times. I've wondered about doing it on purpose, though. By crash it out, I mean where they get so very very tired they sleep for 11:30 or so at night. DS does that if his naps are really short. Mind you: that long night does NOT mean they are all caught up. There's still lingering OT to wrangle.
Yet another thought... I've tried going back to two naps before when he woke up super duper early. It was a disaster. But maybe it would work for you. However you used to do it might work.. to get her to a reasonable BT. It was a disaster for me b/c he still needed very very much less A time than he got that day, so I guess I suggest not to assume that with 2 naps they can get to their normal BT, it will still be too much.
In other words, it's all a big, horribly unfun experiment. I wish they had little tired meters.
Amanda
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hi Amanda,
I would most likely have to aim for a 13hr day because DD does a 11 hr night at most. so BT would need to be at 7 if I want a 6 am WU.
so yesterday i had her in the crib at 5 pm(crazy risky) and she was asleep at 5;30pm. She had a few little cries in the early night but otherwise she slept through!!!!!! Finally. She WU at 5 am but at least Im happy that it was an 11.5hrs night with out lengthy awake periods.
If I follow the A and give her 5.5 hrs then her nap would need to be at 10.30am. What BT would you go with then if the nap is 2hrs+ and if the nap is less then 2 hrs? I am scarred of shifting the day so early
With regards to sticking to a schedule for a bit, do you mean a set nap/BT just to get a better WU?
With regards to a second nap-she won't take it even if she had a very short nap. I tried putting her in a stroller and in the car but no luck.
I really like your little trick with a total 9.5/10hr A if the night was less then 10.5hrs. If I understand correctly you do this because your DS sleeps 12hrs on a regular day? What A would you suggest for us then if DD sleeps 11hrs at most? Also do you also go with 9.5/10hr total A if the nap is short?
Thanks
Alla
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P. S. Today she fell asleep for her nap at 10:20am (WU at 5:00am) but she was already OT way before the nap. She WU at 12:10pm so her nap was 1hr50m, better then yesterday but still an OT nap. What time would you suggest to have her in the crib and asleep by?
Thanks
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Hey Alla,
That is SO AWESOME that she slept better and so long! And a bit later morning WU than the day before, right? Yay.
So, on that magical day where I put him in bed at the 9:35A mark and he slept 11.5 hours, the following night was a mess. The day after the long night was 11A (or maybe it was more, I'm not sure) and it was far too much, plus a crying fit may have added to the adrenaline/cortisol and made him even more OT.
Since her nap was still OT, it might be worth a try to put her to bed at 5pm again. Or maybe just a hair later... 5:15? I would guess 5:30 at the latest, though that might even be too late, that would be going to bed at 10:40 A, and if it takes her 30m to settle, it might be too much. At least, it has been for mine in a similar situation.
If it works, it may indeed mean she only sleeps 11 hrs, and wakes up before 5.. yikes. But it would be a better-rested 11 hrs, and then maybe you can work her later over the course of a few days, once she's got the OT out.
Yes, that idea about facilitating a crash on purpose would mean sticking close to set nap and BT which would likely mean far too much A, in hopes she would crash. Like I said, I've never tried it on purpose, it just happens sometimes when he's OT. I'm not sure how to determine how much would make a crash, and how much would be utter catastrophe, creating an 8 hour night or something. It's probably a last resort sort of thing.. at least for me... but I suppose that's what a lot of people do: stick to the schedule and wait for the LO to fall into it. But I think some LOs take longer to fall into it that way than others, I think mine is one that doesn't recover or make up sleep as well, so not my first choice for him.
My DS tends to like 13 hours in a day, I think. But when extremely OT, he'll do 11:30+ hr nights, given the chance. So the 9.5 A BT has worked after a 10hr night (preceded by weeks and weeks of nightly OT), and 10 A BT has worked after a 10.5 nt. Not every time, unfortunately, but frequently.
If the nap is short.. say 1.5 or less, or a broken/who-knows-how-long-he-actually-slept, or if he wakes up screaming... I've done 10:35A BT (he fell asleep at 10:55) and that night was 11:40 with some short WU. But I think that was a crash night, not as restorative as it would have been with a shorter A. I've also tried 9:45A in bed, and I think that was too late, too OT to settle already... so yeah: short/broken naps = 10A BT or less, I think.
I can finally attest that it does get better (knock on wood). *Just* this week, LO is defying my meticulous records and sleeping on in the morning despite an expected OT EW. He's 19mos.
Let me know how it goes tonight!!
Amanda
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Amanda, thanks very much for responding. I managed to get her in the crib at 5:00 pm and she was asleep by 5:20/25 but she definitely was OT even earlier. I am really hoping that by some miracle i would be lucky enough to get another 11.5+hrs night!
What would you do with her nap tomorrow? Let's say if she wakes at 5:00am or even earlier, what time would you offer the nap at?
In our situation, when would you start(i mean tomorrow or in few more days) and how would you move her day later?
Also thank you for explaining everything in detail, it really helps.
P.S. She WU at 4:55am but had another great 11.5hr night. I am feeling lucky! Just wondering now if she needs 12.5hrs day instead of 13hrs or are these long 11.5hrs nights are this long because of her needing to catch up. although previously 12.5hrs nights shifted her day earlier and now with already such an early WU it is very dangerous to try it
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Another 11.5 night!!! yay!!
So you probably can shift her a little later... especially if the nap goes well. I wouldn't push more than 15m or so...? But maybe after a couple of great nights she can tolerate a bigger push. It's SO HARD to tell.
I have yet to figure out if having a longer than 2 hour nap delays BT AND WU, or just delays BT and makes for an earlier WU (shorter night). But that's another one for the experiment, is to try a little longer nap (if she will) to stretch her to a later BT. I rarely do more than 2:15.
Does she give any tired signs? Mine shakes his head, and that's about it. If he does, I know he needs an early BT. Yawns near BT mean it's too late already. And of course, hyper means OT. I was thinking if she can give you a sign, that would help determine how much you can push her today.
Amanda
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Oh, and the 11.5 nights are probably catch up, not normal. That's my cautious guess...
I would do the nap at 5:30A, and then try BT at the 10:15A mark, perhaps.
Amanda
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hey Amanda,
just noticed you are here. I had her in the crib at 10;00am for the nap and she was already OT, took a bit longer to fall asleep but napped for 2hrs15m, woke up whining so i think she probably needed more S
so do you push the day by only pushing the BT or the nap as well. I was told before here that the nap needs to be pushed as well. But according to today it seems that 5.5 of morning A is too much for her or maybe it's because she is still OT.
She usually doesn't show tired signals until it's too late which makes it really hard to find that perfect time
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Don't you HATE the no tired signs!!?
I don't push the nap past 5:30 A if we are in OT mode, but pushing BT by a little seems to work better for me. Lately (past few days) LO has been playing in crib before the nap, so he's ready for more morning A, and clearly having some good nights despite the BT drama.
Sounds like she's catching up! Did she wake up on her own from the nap or did you wake her? I agree, whining probably means she still OT. How old is she?
Amanda
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Oh yes I do hate the no tired signs, that's how we always get in trouble ::)
She WU on her own from the nap. I never wake her. A while back I used to wake her but it never did her any good plus our sleep adviser told us that it's very bad for them because it disturbs their natural sleep pattern and she've seen some bad consequences.
It seems like she is catching up but now I need to somehow account that nights will start to get shorter (not 11.5hrs but 11hrs) and that means that if I stick to the same BT as now (5:00in the crib, asleep by 5:15/5:30pm)her WU is going to be around 4:15/4:30am. But I also need to try not to get her OT before BT if I start to push it later.
It seems like after we catch up on sleep she has a few days/a week of great sleep but then the OT builds up again and by the time I start to try pushing the day later it gets worse and worse.
She is 16months old.
I am really happy about what you said that it gets better! I hope this would be the case for us and I hope that if I stick to you method it will help us her out of OT faster.
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P.S.
I just looked at my log for the past 3 days and her A before getting her in the crib for BT wasn't really that short.
On the first day when we spoke Amanda her Total A was 11hrs but 10.5hrs before I laid her in the crib but it was 1hr earlier then for the past while (5pm not 6pm) and her night was 11.5hrs. Her day was 12hrs40m long.
On the second day her total A was 10hrs30m but 10hrs10/15m before in the crib and her night was 11.5hrs long. Her day was 12hrs20m long.
Today her total A was 10hrs40m but 10hr5m before laid in the crib so actually the shortest. Her day ended up being 13hrs long. I put her in the crib at 5:15pm(not 5pm like in the past 2days)but she fell asleep at 5:50pm. Not exactly sure if she was OT because she definitely looked tired. But he also had the longest nap today.
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Fingers crossed over here, that she'll sleep past five!!
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Hi Amanda,
so after i had her in the crib at 5:15pm (not 5:00 as in the last 2 days) she took a while to fall asleep and was out at 5:50. I guess this 15m made a big difference to her and she got OT/wasn't all caught up yet. At night she was awake from 2:30 to 3:30 but this awake period pushed her WU later. She woke up at 6:10ish maybe a bit earlier.
Today she had about 5hrs of morning A and then napped for 2.5hrs yey! I'm guessing that she would probably still need an early bedtime today but im not sure what time, 6/6:15/6:30? don't want to push her too much because of yesterday 15m making a big difference to her.
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So last night I had her in the crib at 5:45 and she was asleep by 6:15pm (13hr day). She had multiple short cries through the whole night and WU at 5:15am . 11hr but don't think it was very restful. Then 5hrs of morning A and short nap again-1hr45m????? I don't get it really. It's a vicious cycle. So now if I offer 10hr A BT she will be in the crib at 5pm. And we are back to shifting our day earlier and earlier with her days being 12/12.5hrs long and there is a very slight chance she will sleep 11.5hrs at night again. Honestly I don't understand my DD. I feel like I don't know her and can't help her with her sleep needs. This is just depressing. I can't take this EWUs anymore. It's been 16 long months.
Sorry for complaining!
P.S. Crib at 5:10pm and asleep by 5:40. Had few little cries and now we are officially back to waking up at 4:45am :'(. She WU with a cry so this makes me think she couldn't resettle.
I thought that she went to bed at a good time and wasn't OT and she had 12.5hrs day. So if this is how long she needs not to get OT then why doesn't she sleep 11.5hrs? This has been happening since the beginning. What do I do? Stretch her day to 13hrs and get her OT or keep it at 12.5hrs and get earlier and earlier WU?
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Tonight is just a disaster. I'm at loss.
Here is our EASy
2days ago - 12.5hr day went to bed ok seemed like the right time. Slept 11hrs at night but still had multiple little cries through the whole night but they were really short.
WU 4:45am
Tired at 9am that's 4hrs15m of A
10:12 crib
10:15 S (2hrs20m) but seems like a crash sleep not really restorative
WU 12:35
I gave her a bath early and watched her carefully to see tired signs while she coloured but I couldn't see any at all. Then I layed her down to change her diaper and here she started to cry and rub her eyes. Too late, OT? Why can't I see her tired signs on time?
5:30 crib crying fussing
6:00 BT OT again?
Multiple little cries again
2:30 let's out a cry and S
2:40 let's out a cry and S
The same thing happening until 3:10ish then S
3:40 WU
3:55 I went in to check her and swapped her diaper. Started crying when I left . Calmed down asap. Up for the day?
4:40 looks like S but again tossing and turning.
4:50 looked like S but up on all 4s again
5:00 cry
5:05 looked like S but awake
5:30 looked like S but WU
It's 6:00 now and she is still awake. And she looks like she won't go back to S anymore
She looked like she is trying to go back to sleep but can't. Then let's out a cry when she opes her eyes. Then lays quietly or may say something and then try again to S.
What's going on with her? What do I do with her day? How do I go about her nap and BT? Could that be that she needs a shorter day (less then 13hrs) but then she doesn't sleep 11.5hrs every night.
Please help someone I want to sleep! :)
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An update
I kept her up till 12:20 pm(WU was at 3:40am) and she's been sleeping for 1hr20m so far. Might give a 7:30/8 BT and try to stick with it. I just wish I knew her right A times so I can plan her day
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Hi there,
I've been out of pocket for a while, family in town.
I've been depressed, exhausted about my LO sleep (and mine) too... I can really relate. I'm so sorry. It's terrible... and I get super emotional about it, feeling like failure, etc... I've had many tears over this. I had a mild consolation today-- an acquaintance of mine has one close to the same age and he's getting 10hrs in a 24 hr period!! And she doesn't seem to be too intent on trying to fix it. I try to give myself some credit for knowing about OT/UT issues, and *trying* to get him the sleep he needs. Some people don't know, or don't worry about it that much (which isn't entirely bad, I suppose! I worry too much).
I know you give her meds for pain, but the segments of frequent half-awake cries sounds like some kind of discomfort to me. Gas? I don't give my LO gas drops anymore, but sometimes I wonder if he gets gassy after beans and that could be a factor.
The multiple little cries where LO self-soothes back to sleep throughout the night seem to mean the last vestiges of OT working itself out, for my LO. He usually is good to go the next day, for a 'regular' schedule, if I know what that is.
Other things to consider... are you APing at all? Do you think she's waking up habitually? Several months ago I would have sworn my LO wasn't doing that, b/c he self-soothed for naps. But we had started rocking him to sleep in the night after a trip, instead of doing PU/PD again, and after months of him waking up 4+ times/night and me being dense, thinking it was only routine problems, we tried PU/PD in the night and boom. After one night of heart-wrenching crying, he slept through again. You might consider PU/PD (or PD, or WI/WO) for the EW. Tracey says 'Use PU/PD to send them back to sleep' like they will sail back softly into the night... if only it were like that.
Yeah, today hopefully she will crash for you. Maybe that's the way to go... she's had some good long nights, so the bulk of the OT is out hopefully, and now maybe it will work to strongly encourage a reasonable schedule.
Another thing I've done is find a series of days (usually it's only two) that worked... where he woke up after a good night at around the same time, and tried to use that as a schedule. If you have those records, it might be helpful. If you don't, don't worry. That knowledge alone did not 'fix' everything for me.
Oh, and if you can? Go to bed at 8pm, or 9pm! I started to do that out of desperation (when he was waking up at 5) and when I started to get more sleep, I felt better, more hopeful.
There are no tired signs until too late...it sucks. I've started writing down when I try to put him to bed, and how he acts, to try to learn what it means. Since I have been trying so early, ridiculously early, I've learned (I think) what UT protest looks like. Generally, if he lies down a lot while playing, I tend to think he's tired. Sometimes when I say, "Are you tired?" he'll shake his head, which means that I have elicited the tired head shake, not a 'no' (he doesn't shake his head for 'no'-- language delay). When he gets hyper, he's tired or OT.. though that one is hard to tell. Especially when Dada gets home at 6:15pm and that's really really exciting! I also try to gauge the frequency of his yawns... yawns near BT mean too late already for him.
I'd love to hear how it's going for you.
Amanda
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And this one: "So last night I had her in the crib at 5:45 and she was asleep by 6:15pm (13hr day). She had multiple short cries through the whole night and WU at 5:15am . 11hr but don't think it was very restful. Then 5hrs of morning A and short nap again-1hr45m????? "
Do you think that could have been UT? How did she fall asleep... messing around, crying, fast, slow? How did she wake up?
If he has a good night, I usually have the first A be in bed at 5:30.
A
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Hi Amanda.
I feel exactly the same.Too much worry and anxiety. Sometimes I do wish I didnt know as much as I do about her sleep or i wish I knew more so I could figure it out.
Hm discomfort? She is gassy - always but it never seems to bother her and her dr said that as long as it comes out it's all good, the problem would be if it didn't.
i also thought that those little cries are just left overs of OT since she is actually resettling but the next day if she has a full 13hrs day she is back to having lengthy NWs.
No, i don't AP at all. It doesnt work with her anymore even when i wanted it to work. Rocking makes her laugh. The only way she will fall asleep on the breast is if she is very very OT but that happens rarely.
Oh, I log her every day for the past year and i can't find anything that makes sense. If we have a good week and i follow it it still goes back to OT. Even our sleep consultant couldn't see a connection.
oh yeah, i hope for 8pm bt for myself today but it looks like it will be 9, still pretty good! thanks
We always struggled with her tired clues, and for nap i sometimes can tell but there were times when she looked tired and i put her for a nap but then had an under tired nap. For BT it's just impossible, she is always seems tired before dinner and she has an early diner but i still cant tell.
BTW i remember when she was on 3 or even 2 naps anything under 1.5 was UT nap including 45m, and 30m nap was OT. but now i feel like don't know what's OT and what's UT.
our EASy today:
wu 3:40am
S 12:20pm (2hrs20m) wu crying
crib 7:30
BT 7:50
very long day and very OT. i am dreading the night and the WU :-\
with regards to your last message about morning A being 5hrs and UT nap, that's what i used to think too so i increased her A to 5.5 and she would have few days of good nap then it will get shorter again then we went up to 6hrs and 6hrs15m and still the same happening. few days ago i watched for her tired signs before the nap and it looked like she was tired at 4:15 A, crazy but now im thinking maybe we switched to 1 nap too early but she was refusing the second nap all the time and if i would cap the first she would still refuse the second even after 30m of S.
with regards to how she falls asleep- I'm clueless what means what. Sometimes she talk very loud and laughs and then quiet, and then does it again, sometimes she just lays quietly, sometimes tossing and turning but she always plays with her hair. The only think i do know is that when she wake up crying she wasn't done sleeping and it was not a full nap for her. My husband and I both can't read her.
i have no clue how to plan her day. We always run 30ish m short. She seemed not OT two nights ago going for BT and that's after a good nap and 12.5hrs of the whole day. How can we fit in 24hrs?
thank you so very much for your support!
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Right... the patterns defy a 24hr cycle. I've seen some routines on here like this: WU 7-7:30, Nap: 12/12:30... etc.. And that's how the LOs get their varying sleep needs met from day to day, I suppose. I would be okay with that sort of schedule, except like you, 15m seems to make or break the day. And then the night... and then the next 3 nights.. etc. And also I never know when BT should be, b/c there are no tired signs, or he just so darn variable/sensitive to OT/UT.
Another routine I saw on here.. I saw it on 'What does your toddler's day look like?' I think... where someone had two different routines, a 3 day cycle, basically. That's also wonderful.. but I've no idea how you would even figure that out!!! But to know that that's possible might give you some ideas?
Mine will play in the crib even when he's OT... or go from UT to OT in the crib. In other words, he will play past the drowsy point, because he is so engaged in what he's doing. It's so discouraging. If he's doing that and I'm certain it's UT, I take him out and try again 15-30m later. That seems to work better than him just entertaining himself in the crib until he's OT.
I hope you can get some sleep, dear.
Amanda
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exactly! those dark 15min ::)
hm that's an idea, but you are right how do you figure our the 2 different routines? you got to be really good at reading your LO. I actually started going through that post and some LOs her age are doing 5-6hrs of morning A. We've done that for some time but i'm thinking maybe that wasn't the problem, maybe the BT wasn't right that's why her nights were screwed up and therefore the nap eventually got screwed up, if that makes any sense.
For now i wish she would wake up at 6:00 because that's when my DH is up for work so I'm up anyways. So then her nap should be around 11am and BT 7pm, technically but she can't get to BT with out getting ot. Do you think I should try 6:30 BT?
Wow going from UT to OT while in the crib? Unbelievable! So how can you tell UT from OT. I mean I can see she is OT cause she gets loud and very hyper and excited but UT? Why is there even such a thing as UT?
Tonight wasn't too bad considering a very long yesterday. She was asleep at 7:50pm yesterday and up at 5:20am. Little cries in the early night which for sure indicate OT because they happened in the early night, not like last few days where she was having them throughout the whole night. Then she almost WU at 3:30 but resettled. This is what I don't get- I though she would be up for 1+hrs like in the last weeks but she didn't wake up, unless she was so tired. Maybe she is going throu OT/Ut cycle.
Where would you go from here? Do set nap for some time to get her WU a bit later or start following A right away? She is really OT after yesterday so will probably want an early BT to catch up so this will bring us back to early days.
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P.S. it just seems that she need a bit more sleep somewhere, either during her nap or at night. i think if she had a longer nap then she could have a 13hr day.
maybe try for something set like this for some time to get her to WU later and get through this horrible OT otherwise we will be back to 5/5:30pm bedtime and crazy early WU? And then after we are through this major OT go back to A times? what do you think?
wu 6:30/7;00
A 4.5hrs/5hrs
S 11:30
A 5.5hrs/6hrs (but it seems too long for her)
BT 7:30
and i know i said i would like her to wu at 6 but at least if I aim for 7 then there is room to give an early BT
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Hi Alla,
That makes perfect sense, bad night sleep messes up naps and vice versa!
I can't tell you how many times I've asked that: Why oh why does UT exist!? I think much of what I have thought was UT was actually OT (again a case of knowing less perhaps being more helpful). Going from UT to OT in the crib is possible, so I've read on here, though I don't really understand. When I've put him to bed too early, he either plays (which he will also do when tired/OT), or he will protest like a crazy frustrated cry like: THIS IS INSANE MOM. DON'T DO THIS TO ME. When he's crying b/c he's tired/OT it's more fussy, whiny. It can be intense, but not that extreme frustrated sound.
That night: 7:50 BT to 5:20a WU.. that's 9.5 hours. That's really really OT, really short, in my experience. I think she didn't wake up for long b/c she was too tired to do so, for sure. That's how my LO has done, and the next night was 10, then I did early BT (9.5 A) and that's one of the times he pulled an 11.5 nt.
I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to keep doing the EBT for a while. This was my thinking in the past: I didn't care if he woke up at 5 or whatever (temporarily), if he was well-rested. If I could get any kind of stasis, and/or get him well-rested, then I could try to inch him later. I was afraid of earlier and earlier WU too, but somehow that didn't happen. He started sleeping later and later... not instantly, not completely predictably, but generally. I know you said you've been stuck in an EWU/EBT loop before, and of course we don't want that again... but I'm just wondering if you might be trying to get back to a normal routine too quickly?
I've done that so so many times!! I finally learned that it can take us several days to work out OT. We are still struggling tonight with a short nap yesterday and it's consequences last night, even though last night was 11.5 hrs (minus a 30m early even waking)!!! And because I didn't put him to bed early *enough* tonight, some OT remains or was added to the pile for later. We'll see!
That routine looks good and could possibly work, but I'm not certain about the long 2nd A... for mine, he would need a longer first A and shorter second... I generally shoot for 5.5 before nap, and 4:45 in bed after the nap (lately b/c we are struggling with OT, takes him 30m to settle-- or maybe it always will, no idea what's 'normal'). I know some like a longer first A, some like a longer second A. Hopefully your LO has made that clear to you!
What I want and think he might need/be able to do is:
WU 7:30
A 5.5
S 1-3
A 5.25+
S 8:15/8:30
What really happens:
Monday was a 10:45 OT night
WU 7a (crying)
S 12:22-2:40 (woke happy)
S 8 (7:30 in bed-- 10:15 Total A, some protest but I did PD and he started trying quickly-- that is, tucking in and sucking thumb)
This night was an 11:30 Nt, WU 7:30 on Tues. (Every night is not like this!!)
Let me know how it's going!
Amanda
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Hi Amanda
I am doubting myself all the time. The reason I am trying this crazy shift of a set 11:30 nap/7:30bt with her is because I'm hoping to recreate a situation on the day we had to fly somewhere and we flew quiet a lot of times. During the travel day she only usually naps 30/40m and has a very long day, then I give her a set nap/BT and try to adjust her to a new time one. I've never done it before to shift her day forward without actually going somewhere but that day when she was awake at 3:40 am and ended up with a very long day, I hope for that day to be just like a flight day the only difference is that she napped for 2hrs40m instead of 30/40m. It usually takes her at least a week to get used to the new time and start sleeping in later but now I'm panicking because tonight she had another 9.5hr night with a 35m of NW. I'm not sure if this is going to work anymore.
I was told before that when you start a set nap/BT the OT gets really bad but then it starts to work in you favour. I'm hoping for this to happen. DH says to give her 1 day of EBT to help her catch up a bit but I know that not nearly enough because she is beyond OT plus if she catches up a bit it might ruin the whole idea of a set times and OT working in our favor.
Yeah I think you are right and the last A would be too long for her. She used to have a longer morning A before 2-1 transition but since then everything is upside down.
Your day looks really good even on the bad day wow, I'm really happy that you found a way or at least a better way, honestly really happy for you!
Thank you for sticking with us!
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Oh agrrrrr now I'm panicking and thinking of an early 5pm BT.
P.S. I think this is as bad as it could get!? I got her in the crib at 5:00 and she started fricking out right away so I went in and had to stay with her there to calm her down. She just couldn't settle at all. I tried rubbing her head I even climes in the crib with her and breast fed her. She calmed down but still couldn't fall asleep till 6:30pm.
I think I will try 2 naps tomorrow just to try and catch her up. I'm scared lol
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Hi
It's just getting worse and worse. EBT doesn't really work because dd is taking. 1-1.5hrs to fall asleep( I had her in the crib at 4:45 PM ridiculous !) and lengthy NW are back. I didn't try 2 naps yet cause previously they did more bad then good but I don't know what else to do.
She is so OT that she bumps into thing all day long. I think she is ready for a nap after couple of hrs of A.
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Please if anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. She is just sooo tired it hurts to look at her. Her night are 9/9.5hrs long because of lengthy NWs and taking 1/1.5hr to fall asleep at BT. For the past few days she's been tired looking earlier and earlier in the day. Yesterday I gave her a nap at 10am (WU 5:00am) and she napped for 2hr5m but WU screaming. Today same WU but she had her nap at 9:15 and only napped for 1hr35m. It's 10:50 am and she is up and I don't think that she will take a second nap. The only thing I can think of is set nap/BT but I'm not sure if it will work since it didn't before plus we are traveling in 3weeks and there is going to be a time change, and then another month later we are traveling again to Europe so more distributions.
How do I help her catch up. She is already in the crib at 4:45pm for BT
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I really found with both my kids that nap and bedtime needed to be around the same time each day to allow their circadian rhythms to adjust and they sleep better. If you set just bedtime her wake up time should also stabalize in a few days, making it easier to set naps. Too much tweaking at this age really just makes things worse imo.
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Hi Robin, thank you for replying.
So do you think I should go back to set nap/BT even with this crazy OT? I'm so afraid that it will even get worse. If you read this post then you probably saw that I did one crash day after a 3:40am start of the day and then 2 more days of late nap/BT and that's how she got sooo OT. What do you think I should set the nap/BT to?
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I think consistency will get her over the OT faster than guessing on a day by day basis. Her body will get used to the routine and the sleep timings. She seems like an early bird so I would aim for having her asleep at 6:30. Start wind down at 6 and spend some extra time helping her settle since she's OT. I would also set mealtimes if you haven't already. Having lunch right before nap consistently will be a huge key for her in figuring out where she is in her day. Right now it seems she doesn't know if she's coming or going.
Also, expect different length naps. Just because she didn't sleep 2 hours doesn't mean the routine is wrong. Obviously you know they aren't machines, so just because you input Y doesn't mean they will always output X. Anything over 1 hour is a restorative nap and she should be able to make it if not to bedtime then within 30 minutes of it.
Is she putting herself to sleep completely independently? Do you leave her for a bit when she wakes to see if she settles? Does she get fresh air and exercise every morning? How is her mood overall? I also strongly recommend a digital video monitor if you don't have one. They're a little pricey but I love mine!
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Hi AMJ
Agree with the set nap/BT. It really helped us (although she's in a leap this wk so has gone a bit downhill but trying to stick to it still and hoping we get back to where we were as it was the best it had been in months)
Why don't you try a nap at 11.30 to start with and BT 6.30 (asleep by). Yep you'll still get early starts but once she's settled into that you can start to push nap and BT again.
Took us about a week or 2 to see any change but wu did start getting later! If nothing else it may save your sanity. Can you ever resettle if she wakes early from a nap? Even if you AP?
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Ok I'll start the set times again, what time would you suggest the nap to be at then? Is she up at 5am sometimes even earlier.
Oh gosh I don't know how she will last till 6:30pm.
The thing is we did try set times with her before few times but it just seemed that once she was through the OT it would work for a bit and then her naps will start to shorten and then her nights as well. Plus us traveling lots this summer didn't help.
She is totally falling asleep on her own. Even when I try to resettle I feel like I just make things worse by being there so no props at all. In fact I can't even resettle her at all, not during the nap or in the mornings. And I always leave her in the crib till 6am and for nap time till it's been 2 hrs. We stopped going outside in the morning because I tried to watch her tired clues but before that we always went out. Her mood is cranky and she is not herself because of the OT. In fact I don't recognize my child!
We do have a digital monitor and I don't know what I would do without it! Such a piece of mind.
But maybe this is the only way to get her through the OT even if we need to travel in 3 weeks.
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Hi Lauren, how are you? Don't you feel that we are on here all the time,lol?
Thanks for responding. I'm just thinking if I do a nap at 11:30 and BT at 6:30 that means that I'm hoping to have her WU at least at 5:30. And that's 6hrs till 11:30. I feel that's too much A for her. Maybe if BT is 6:30 then WU 5:30, maybe 6(I wish) and nap at 10:30? What do you think?
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I'm good thanks. Yes I'm always on here trying to solve one problem or another ;)
I think 10.30 nap will leave you with too long an afternoon, especially if her nap isn't a long one. I know my DD can handle a longer am than pm. I think 6 hrs is about right for this age group but if you really think she won't handle it or adjust then maybe 11?
We were getting 5/5.30 wu's and I set her nap at 12 (was 11 prior to that) It really was a struggle at first but now it's manageable and I'm keeping to that time this wk even though she's having NW and EW (today she was up at 5.10 - just over 10hrs ns)
We had to push it that much later to get the later starts. I couldn't believe it when she started sleeping until 6 (damn this leap which has ruined my lie ins!)
I've found since I've gone to set times I'm also much more relaxed. I was far too anxious before when thinking about A times.
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Yeah set times do give me my sanity back but just until they stop working. So you are sticking to it even with EWUs and NWs? Good for you! Do you offer 15m earlier nap and 30m earlier BT? I find that I did that the earlier nap and BT became our regular times because things just didn't get better and I couldn't move them back to the original times.
Yeah I feel like such an early nap does leave us with a huge second A but I'm hoping maybe if I give her 12.5hr day insteadof 13hrs she will sleep 11.5hr at night. It does seem that's what she needs only she can't get herself to sleep that long
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You might want to consider getting her out of the house in the morning. At this age they need the exercise and stimulation and part of what you think is tiredness could very well be boredom.
I would do 11:30 asleep for nap and 6:30 asleep for bed. I don't do early bedtime because like you it just pulls her day earlier. Today my younger dd napped 45 minutes. Her bedtime will still be 8. She might have an OT wake around 10:30 but that's better than a 6:00 wake up (she normally sleeps until 7:15). Yesterday her morning was the same length as today's and she slept 2.5 hours. There's no rhyme or reason but with set times it all tends to even out. Most days her nap is 1.5 hours with an 11.5 hour night.
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Hi Robin
Maybe you are right regarding boredom but she looks plain exhausted. I think I do protect her too much from overstimulation because for some reason she gets so overwhelmed even but playing beside loud children.
Wow 45m, that would be a disaster for us. I think some kids are able to catch up better then others. Our DD doesn't unless I catch it early enough(which I never do) and then OT just accumulates more and more. She never did and we always end up in a similar situation.
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Yeah, some kids are definitely more touchy about OT than others. My older dd was pretty touchy and still is. Often just 10 minutes late for bed and she'll end up in tears over one thing or the other. My younger dd is touchy but she's also had to learn to adjust because obviously having an older sister means not always being able to cator directly to her needs unfortunately. However, having had the chance to see that in dd2 has lead me to believe kids will catch up eventually and be better off for it. No doubt she'll get OT, but her body's rhythms will be able to adjust and there will be a huge improvement. Until the next regression because I promise you just when things are going smooth these LOs like to shake them up again! :P ;)
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that actually makes sense. I hear lots of stories that second children are more adjustable then the first. It's just so damn hard. It's probably easier second time around as well.
and these regression, is it even a thing or people just made that up to make some kind of sense out of their kids not sleeping :P it feels like we've been in regression all the time.
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Lol regressions probably are just made up to help us feel better about our kids not sleeping!
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haha that's what i think :D
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It's 2:30 am DD is up a going and I had a crazy thought. What if I keep giving her a VERY EBT like 4pm then 3pm then 2pm and so on. This should get her caugh up on her sleep and maybe eventually we will get back to 8pm but backwards??? Or am I just going crazy here in the dark?
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No I haven't deviated from the set times apart from one BT. I think if I fiddle around too much we will end up in a mess. Luckily we're still getting a decent nap so think she's used to it now.
I just take her out in the mornings to stop her thinking about being tired and try and avoid longer car journeys as she's guaranteed to nod off then!
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by getting her to 8pm but backwards?
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Maybe I should stop offering earlier nap/BT as well cause that's where we go wrong. Although she be ever really slept in in the mornings so EBT might be the only way for her to catch up(30m early)
Never mind, that backward pushing wouldn't work unless we were going to Europe sooner plus I just realized how crazy it sounds. It must of been my delusional brain thinking at night.
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Although she be ever really slept in in the mornings
My older dd was the exact same way, no matter what time her bedtime was she was up early. She would get OT and still not sleep past 6:30. It hasn't been until this summer that she'll sleep until 7:30 with an 8:30 bedtime. Some kids are just programmed to need an earlier bed and earlier start to the day. If you think 6:30 bed is too late definitely go with 6:00, but I wouldn't do any earlier than that. If she likes waking at 5:30, go for nap between 10:30 and 11. There's nothing wrong with doing things that way. Are you a morning person? If not, that would be the only drawback but it would probably get much better when she's nearer 2 and definitely when she drops the nap.
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She only slept past 6am a handful of times. Honestly I don't know who she got early rising from, definitely not from me or my husband. We both need to sleep in
Thanks so much!
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K hasn't slept in past 6am since she was really small. I've just come to terms with the fact that she's an early riser and it doesn't bother me so much now as long as she's had sufficient sleep.
One day she will start to sleep in later, until then I shall continue to enjoy my evenings. As much as I'd love a 7am start I'd hate an 8pm bedtime :P
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you ladies are both right, and i wouldn't mind this early rising(5;30/6;00 would be acceptable but not 4:45/5) if we had the days consistent.
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How long did it take your LOs to get used to set times? The longest we've been on them was 1month and then we had to travel and the different time zone made us start over.
After a 5:20 BT yesterday and a 12hr day she finally slept throughout the night for 11hra15m, only the WU was at 4:35am :o then after 5hrs50m of A napped for only 1.5hrs and WU screaming. I could just see that such a long A before the nap even after a great night was too long for her. I'm so scarred of those set times again. She will start waking at night again for lengthy periods, have EWUs and short naps. And the worst thing is that I can't resettle her. Ever. It's ridiculous
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When you did it for a month did you notice any difference?
I would say it took a good week or two. We did set times more to try and fix the early starts and luckily DD coped with the long A straight away. It took that long before BT stopped being a nightmare and we started getting consistent 11hr ns with no NW.
That was great for 2/3 weeks before something else disrupted it!
I think you will definitely need to try for a week. When are you travelling again?
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The early WU never got better. At that time she didn't really have lengthy NWUs so she slept through only her nights were 10hrs long. Her nap would lengthen a bit once the she got through the OT but then it would start to get shorter again and then we traveled again. Once we got to our destination we did set naps again but obviously it was different time because of 8hr time difference. But again set times worked for a very bit and then they went back to short nights/naps and we traveled again.
We are traveling again in 3 weeks and then staying there for 5weeks and traveling again. After that we will be staying in one place for a long time.
I know for a fact that it won't get better in one week or even 2 weeks. Plus if I set the BT at 6:30pm she would probably WU at 4:30 unless the lengthy NWUs would push the WU later
Does it matter if I start set times from BT or I should start in the morning with a nap?
Also today for example our day was like this
BT 5:17pm
WU 4:35am
Crib 9:50 was very OT even after 11hr15m night
Nap 10:15 (1hr33m)
WU 12:48
And at 4pm she looked like she was ready for bed. TIRED
Crib 5:00 crying and can't fall asleep
BT 5:50
So it seems like she needs a 12hr day but she won't sleep 12hrs at night! How is this possible???? Or maybe if I keep giving her 12hr days for some time she might start sleeping 12hrs at night? The only problem is that her BT will shift VERY early.
What do you think if I try
WU 6:00 (5:30)
Nap 11:00 because it seems like 5hrs ofA is the most she can handle without getting OT
BT 6:00 only I don't know when to put her in the crib cause she takes so long to fall asleep
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So it seems like she needs a 12hr day but she won't sleep 12hrs at night! How is this possible?
I'm not sure how to quote on my iPad but that bit up there means she's not ready for 1 nap. She's probably sososo close, which is why 2 naps don't work anymore. Unfortunately, the only way around that is do alternate nap days or short AM/long PM naps, but you said that wasn't working either if I remember correctly. Have you ever tried acting like the 5 PM was bedtime but then waking her after 30 minutes and putting her back down at 7/7:30 for real bedtime?
The 12 hour night is a myth. Sure you'll see some kids do that, just like some will do a 13/14 hour night if they're OT, but the vast majority of kids do 11/11.5 hour nights.
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Hi
I did try for a second nap lots of times. The first day after traveling I always give 2 naps and she takes it but for sure thinks that the 2nd nap is a BT. I wake her and keep her up for 2/2.5hrs. The problem is that then she sleeps only 5hr and the 2/2.5hrs of A become part of the night for her. The only way to try for it now is to give her a bath before the 2nd nap and breastfeed her then wake her and do it again. I'm not sure if this will confuse her too much?!
You are probably right about not being ready for 1 nap but at 12m we were working with a sleep consultant and she said that it looked like DD is ready for 1 nap. I honestly though the same but I knew she couldn't handle it yet.
I guess set nap/BT it is and just suck it up ::)
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Yeah, you're probably too far in now to really be able to backtrack to 2 naps anymore. This was the same problem I had with my older dd - she wasn't ready for 1 nap but there was no way she would do 2 anymore. She had the same problem but to a lesser extent during the 3-2 nap switch as well. How did your dd do during that switch?
I know a lot of people find good results with 4.5 hour A time before the nap in the very beginning, but with the early wakings she'd be taking her nap at 9am! There's just no way that would work unless she slept for 4 hours! :P I guess what I would do is keep her in her crib for as long as she'll let you in the morning, get out of the house to help keep her occupied but not overstimulated (does she like stroller walks?) and stick with that 10:30 nap. Does she lay in her crib at all after nap or does she want out right away? The good news is, the worst of this should hopefully be over in a month when she's physically able to handle longer A time better. The spring/summer leading up to my older dd turning 2 was an amazing nap time for us, this 12-18 month time period is the pits.
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yep just like you said, the same problem but to a lesser extend during 3-2 transition.
yeah i usually try to keep her in the crib till 6am. it is not that hard to do if she wakes at 5am or later but with 4:30 am WU she can't take it in there for so long and i don't blame her.
this am I took her for a stroller ride. She is not a big fan of it but we did it for about 30m and then just walked outside picking leafs and sticks. She is pretty calm during this walk. After the nap usually i am able to keep her in the crib till it's been 2hrs, but sometimes she is hysterical and i have to get her out.
so you would do nap at 10:30 not 11:00, and BT at 6:00? Gosh i don't know when to put her in the crib for BT. today she took 50m to fall asleep.
i really hope this will end soon. The poor thing is miserable and it feels horrible not being able to help her.
Thanks so very much for your support!!!
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I guess I would aim to have her sleeping sometime between that 10:30/11:00 window depending on when she woke up in the morning and how she's doing. As far as when to put her to bed, I always leave about 20 minutes for my kids to fall asleep. So, with my 13 month old, I want her asleep by 8:00 so have her in her room, all tucked in, by 7:40. Most nights she's out within 5 minutes but she's been known to take an hour while I sit on the couch feeling my blood pressure rise by the second :P. But honestly, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, so try not to stress too much. At least she's in her bed, winding down and on her way to going to sleep. Fingers crossed she sleeps past 5 tomorrow!
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Oh how I hope! Good night!
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The night was horrible. Awake from 12:20 to 1:10. The again from around 2:30 maybe earlier tossing an turning. Not really awake but trying to resettle for about 1hr maybe longer I don't know cause I fell asleep.
Then up at 4:15am (BT was at 5:50pm) and this is only the beginning. I don't know how much worse it could get. I feel like we are back to a newborn stage. Even when we switched to one nap it never was so bad. She slept throught the night.
P.S. DD started to aske for breast before the nap. We were down to 1bf before BT but now I've been giving her the breast before the nap on hopes it will help her calm down faster. Do you think it's ok or it will create a prop? She is breastfed and then we read a book and she goes in the crib wide awake. Thanks
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Ugh, sorry to hear about the rough night and EW. What was her routine like when she first went to 1 nap? Did you go by A time? What was her wake up and bedtime? I am seriously shocked that she's waking up at 4:15 and thinking it's time to start her day. Is it pitch black in her room? How is she eating during the day? Do you think she's waking up because she's hungry, even if she's not crying for food maybe she just feels empty? Honestly, this may not be routine related at all because you're doing everything you possibly can do. Have you taken her to a dr to get her ears checked? Does she have her molars and eyeteeth yet? Sorry for all the questions :P
Giving her a BF before nap won't turn into a prop as long as she's not falling asleep during her feed. Hopefully the feed does calm her and fill her and she takes a long nap!
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When we first went to 1 nap she used to wake up at around 5-5:30am, and a handful of times 6:15. We followed the advice of the sleep consultant and followed A times. We weren't really sure about the right As though. So we climes up to 6hrs of morning A because she would nap for 2hrs and in few days she would nap for 1hr50m then 1.5hrs so we thought she neede more A so we kept pushing the A until one day she started to fall asleep during E in the hight chair. Her BT I think was 6:30/7 then 6 then 6:30 and eventual her WU got to 4am but then the traveling saved us! We tried 2 naps and her 2nd nap was 30m but she would take forever to fall asleep and would cry herself to sleep. When she would wake she was just miserable, hysterical uncontrollable and wouldn't get of from my arms until I put her back in the crib for BT.
It is really dark in her room only a little night light is on and she had it like that from the very beginning. At one point we tried to get rid of it but nothing changed with her sleep so we put it back for me to see a little in the room when I need to go in. Like today I went in to check on her at 4:45 and she pooped so I knew she was up. I changed her and left and she didn't fall back asleep.
She is eating like a grown man lol. It seems that the less she is sleeping the more she is eating. She has a huge apetite. She eats 3 meals 2 snacks and now we are back to 2 breastfeedings.
I haven't taken her to the dr but she doesn't seem sick. She never had an ear infection or anything else apart from 2 colds. Her 3rd canine recently erupted so I was blaming it but now that it cut through the gum about a week ago I don't think it was the tooth. I don't see the 4th canine even close to erupting.
She was jusst so OT before then nap but managed to nap for 2hr but again WU crying so I know that wasn't enough. So I guess I'm sticking to set times, get BT at 6. I know you said you have ur DD in the crib 20m before actual sleep time but since my DD takes so much longer to fall asleep now I'm thinking of puting her in the crib at 5:15??
The thing is when I have her 12/12.5hr days she didn't wake up at night at all and slept for 11/11.5hrs few times so I don't think she is sick at all. But now because of this OT her balance is so off she is falling all the time and has both of her lips cracked and swollen.
P.S. We just came back from the dr and he didn't find anything wrong with her health. She is a mystery
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Good news she's not sick!
Definitely stick with those set times. There's no way you could do A time with a wake up before 5am. You'd be digging yourself a grave getting earlier and earlier wake ups. Eventually she's going to have a crash and either do a super long nap or a solid 12 or even 13 hour night. I mean, it HAS to happen. The human body isn't built to sustain prolonged periods of sleeplessness! Once she crashes you can decide the best way going forward - start counting A time again or staying with the set nap.
The only thing that might throw a wrench in this is if she is indeed a LSN child and UT is leading to all this OT. It's not completely unheard of for 16-18 month olds needing capped naps. But it seems you are pretty sure she's at least average SN?
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Ok for sure set times then.
I think she is an average SN baby although she used to do only 10/10.5 hr night for a while but I think it was from OT.
Today she was tired but not acting to crazy. I'm not sure why. The only thing is that we didn't go to the playground but went to the dr. And before BT she was pretty calm. She only took 30m to fall asleep.
Thank you again!
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Yay for the quick bedtime!
Glad to help! :D
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Hi this is just a rant. The naps are getting shorter and she is waking crying/screaming and can't resettle. Before BT she can't settle and cries so I sit wit her and rub her hand until she calms down and falls asleep. I'm so afraid of this becoming a prop. At night she is either up and can't resettle or she is up at 4am.
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Sorry to hear things aren't improving. It's so hard when they are obviously tired but won't/can't sleep. I'm going through a bit of that here as well today. Had to rock her to sleep this morning so she could catch a quick catnap and hopefully a long afternoon nap as she decided not to nap at all yesterday. :P
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Oh wow no nap at all? Hugs. Is that a usual for her?
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No not usual thank goodness! We're going through a patch of SA and she's taking her first steps so things are a bit off for her. Hope you had a better night last night!
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Oh I see. I hope she gets her rest.
Last night wasn't that great. She was awake from 1:50 till 3:25 and then started to wake up at around 4ish tossing and reining for about 30m but then resettled and I think she was up at around 6:30. Since we are on the set nap would you still offer the nap at 10:30?
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Yeah, definitely. She'll probably be more tired since she was up in the night.
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Thanks. She barely made it to 10:30. She wanted to nap at 8:30 ish! During wind down she was falling asleep and as soon as I put her down in the crib she was out. WU multiple times through the nap but resettled on her own. All together 2hrs25m but again very broken down nap.
Good luck to you too with your DD
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P.S. Her head felt a bit too warm so I checked her temperature with an ear thermometer but it was fine. I checked mine as well and it was also fine. After her nap she was more miserable then usual. Honestly I'm surprised she didn't fall asleep in the car. Once we got home I checked her temperature again but it read fine but she felt warmer then before. So I used an rectal thermometer and she has a fever of 38.6 C. Gosh I panicked since she never has a high temperature. That's why she was so exhausted all day. Never again I will trust an ear thermometer, so inaccurate.
My questions is would you put her to sleep when she is ready since she is not feeling well? Let's say for a nap as early as she wants and then maybe she would take a second nap but if she won't then it won't help. Or an early BT?
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Aww, poor sick girl. I had an ear thermometer too and could never get an accurate reading. :P
My older dd always stayed pretty close to schedule when she was sick. I'd give her some Tylenol and she'd perk back up. Now that she's a bit older she's been known to crash on the couch in the afternoon for a nap but for the most part she still stays on schedule. I'm not sure how my younger dd will be. Last winter when she would get a cold she was still so little that she would sleep more but who knows what this winter will bring. So, in saying all that, I really think it depends on the child and how sick they feel. If she's obviously not well and looking miserable, definitely go off schedule and do what she needs, but if it's a minor cold and overall she seems like herself then I'd try to stay on track. :-\
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Ok I guess I will just go with a flow. It's only 7:30 and she's already been up twice since 6pm BT. I gave her Tylenol so it's probably due to OT
Thank you!
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Hi how are you? Is your DD sleeping better?
Just an update. After initial OT wear off we had few good 11hr nights in a row although she had multiple little cries through those nights. We also had just a few naps 2hrs or just over. Mostly DD naps for 1hr30-40m. But now she is back to having lengthy nightly WUs. She starts crying on and off what is seems like through sleep (or if she's about to wake up) from around 8:45ish PM (BT is at 6pm) and does that for a good hour or so. Then she also wakes sometime after that, could be from anywhere between 10:30 and 12ish and stays up for over 1 hr trying to resettle. Before we went to set times she would have similar nights only her lengthy WUs were mostly after 2:30am. Then before her morning WU wich has been around 5am lately, she is tossing and turning and letting out little cries for good 40 mins. I would imagine that all this light sleeping and lengthy NWUs don't make her nights as restful as she needs.
Those few good days gave me hope that set times are working but now not so much
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Well, it sounds like a bit of progress has been made, at least she's not waking before 5am anymore! If she's getting close to 11 hours of sleep at night and 1.5 to 2 hours of sleep during the day she's within the normal sleep amount range of 12-14 hours. She may just be a "noisy" sleeper. I remember having to turn the monitor volume way down when my oldest was little because she was a "noisy" sleeper and I couldn't share a room with my youngest past 6 months because she was a "noisy" sleeper as well. Lots of tossing, turning, moaning, etc. I can still see that my youngest moves a lot in her sleep because my video monitor has a delay feature that shows me her position when it was last on and then her current position, she's never in the same position! As for that 1 hour NW, perhaps some residual OT, maybe it's just developmental and something she'll have to grow out of, maybe it's a bit of a habit, hard to say. Unfortunately, from what I can tell there's nothing more you can do that you aren't already doing. She's an independent sleeper, no props and you're trying to keep the OT at bay - all good things :).
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Thanks for your encouragement! Hopefully she outgrows it
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Hi Robin. How are you and your family? I have a question.
For the past little while DD had 1hr40m naps (sometimes 1hrs30m rarely 1hr10m) and mostly 10hrs45m-11hrs nights, sometimes 11.5hrs. For the past few days she started to nap for 2hrs20/30m but now she is taking longer to fall asleep at BT. She used to take 30m but now it's about 45m-55m. Also her nights got shorter about 10hrs long. So she is in the crib at 5:30 PM, asleep at 6:15-6:25pm and wakes at just after 4am. Do you think it's because her naps got longer? But waking her from her nap never worked for us.
What do you think? Thank you
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Hi AMJ
Well done on the longer naps!
How long is your day - if I remember you was doing 12hrs wasn't you?
If that's still the case maybe she needs a slightly longer day now that she's having a longer nap?
Unless OT I usually wake my DD after 2hrs now if she hasn't already woken herself as otherwise BT is a faff and we get a shorter night.
Hope she's happier now she's sleeping better?
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Hi Lauren how are you.
Her days are 13hrs long but now since her nights got shorter they are even longer. We do set times
Nap: Crib at 10:30 asleep by 10:40am
BT: crib 5:30, asleep by 6:15-6:30 lately, used to be 6:00pm
WU used to be 5 or after 5, now it's around 4am.
Today she had is back to the usual, had a NWU for about 45m but WU at 5:17am. BT was 6:20pm. This didn't happen for sometime.
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Hi I'm good thanks... Apart from more teething (it feels like it's been non stop since she turned 1!) and I'm wondering if we've hit the 18mo sleep regression a bit earlier. We've been getting NW for 3 weeks solid now and they just came out of the blue so assuming either teeth or developmental (again!!)
Wow 4am wu!!!! She doesn't ever let you AP her either does she? How long was her nap yesterday, did anything else change to get the NW?
It could just be a few days blip and she gets back on track again. Or maybe the 2hr20 nap is just that little bit too long?
Let us know how today/tonight went.
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Gosh it seems like our LOs are going throught the same thing.
No, APing doesn't work for her. Since she became independent sleeper.
Yesterday her nap was 2hrs20m.
Today she napped for 1hr50m and clearly was ready for bed at 6. Fell asleep at 6pm. Will see how the night goes.
Also I've noticed that after 2hrs20-30m nap she doesn't look too tired for bed. So probably that's too long of a nap for her. Only I really hate waking her at any time because she is usually just a mess after that. Do you think I should give a later BT then?
Thanka
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Yes if you'd prefer not to wake her from her nap then try BT maybe 15/20 mins later and see how that goes.
I wish my dd wouldn't respond to AP as whenever she has a regression she just won't go to sleep by herself and we do it as it's easy and so we get some sleep and then she relies on it and we have to re train her again!
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Ok I'll try that then. Thanks
Btw yesterday DD napped for 1hr50m and then fell asleep at 6pm and slept till 5:30am! So it must be the nap length.
Today we are travelling for the whole day again will have a 2hr time change and hopefully she will wake now at 6am not 4am
Oh and I wish that DD responded to APOP. Lol but I do agree it would be hard to retrain every time :(
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P. S oh how i wish today that she would respond to APOP. After refusing a nap yesterday completely during travelling, havering a very short night, she is refusing a nap today again. We are on the second try and she is just going crazy in the crib. How I wish rocking her or putting her in the stroller or the car would work but it's just doesn't.
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Oh really even a car trip doesn't send her to sleep :(
We've had an awful couple of days too. Sunday we was out so she had 2 short car naps. Couldn't get her to bed until 9pm!!! That always means a 9hr night if she's that OT.
Yesterday only 1hr10 nap and a 10.5hr night. I've tried getting to bed early but not working and our trusty AP'ing has even stopped working!
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Yep car trips don't do the trick. We had a 2 hr car ride to the airport and she didn't close her eyes even for a second and that's when she refused a nap that day. Crazy
Hugs to you. Same here. After she finally drifted off yesterday for her nap she slept for almost 3 hrs catching up from a traveling day but then it took me 2 hrs to get her to sleep at BT. Asleep at 9:30pm and what 7am. Oh I'm loving the 2 hr time difference!!!!!!!