BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: dache on January 17, 2015, 20:47:35 pm
-
Two weeks ago dd got roseola, her fiver got to 104 and we ended up in the hospital.
While she was sick she only wanted to cuddle with me (and only me!). At night she would sleep a little then will be up, very drowsy, not even moving, just sitting in my lap, leaning on me.
Then when we got in the hospital it became worse. The room we were in had all windows, no walls and no curtains so it was very bright and it was loud, she is fine with this on normal days but when something is bothering her she can not cope with it.
The first night she woke up every hour and calmed down if I hold her in my arms. Second day she was in my arms 24h. Every time I put her down she cried a lot so I had to pick her up. When BT came I rocked her to sleep and then set on the crib and she slept like that. When she woke up Id walk around, rocking her and she`d fall asleep again. I did that all night long. Third day she started getting better and napped on her own, with a bit of settling. During the night I moved our cribs (we both slept in cribs :() next to each other and she settled with hand on chest, which is how I usually settle her.
So I`ve done a lot of apoping. Now she is no longer going to sleep on her own. Before I`d put her in the crib, give her the paci and she would fell asleep fast. Now...
Naps I dont know. Most of the time when I put her in the crib she does not goes to sleep. I put her down and she is up in one minute, crying. She knows that the paci is only for sleeping and its limited to the crib. So when I go in to do pd she gives me the paci, with a sad look on her face, it makes me feel so bad, or drops it in the crib, meaning she does not want it (and she loves it) and rather stay up with no paci then stay in the crib with the paci. She nasp in the stroller and can get to sleep like that even with out the paci.
Nights are bad too. Tonight I tried putting her down more then a few times before she was done. Last night my sister took her out of the crib, set with her rocking her a little and then put her down. Two nights ago I tried to calmed her down MOTN with hand on chest but she did not settle like that, she wanted to hold my hand and she calmed down only when I talked to her.So that`s how we spent all night. She wakes 2+ times every night. And on top of that she started waking early in the morning too. She wakes anywhere between 5:30 to 6:30. Bc we are all very tiered I have given her milk(never before 6, to calm her down (or hopefully go back to sleep) but its not always working.
She is not well again, taking antibiotics for chest inflammation. And she has fungal infection on her head that is being treated with antifungal cream and seems to be helping (I hope).
She is obviously tiered during the day, but does not sleep well, day or night. Everything is a mess. Her routine is not there anymore. Before she she would wu at 7/7.30, nap at 11 for 2-2.5h and bt was 7/7.30. This worked and she started sttn, then she went trough the 8th WW and was had multiple long NWs that were over when she was out of the WW.
I know I have to wait until she is better to actually do ST but I was hoping there is something I can do now.
With early waking, multiple wakings, and her being clingy, fussy and crying during the day Im very tiered. I have help but no use bc she only wants me.
I was thinking of doing WI/WO but not sure what to do.
Hand on chest worked when after she is gone to sleep, and for naps I`d put her down and she will fall asleep, or I`ll have to go in to replug her, maybe did pd once or twice. Before she did not wanted to be taken out of the crib, now she wont calm down unless I do.
Tonight for the last time I put her down, when she got up and started crying I pick her up, gave her the paci and held her in my arms. She struggled at first then rested her head on my shoulder and after a while I put her down and she fell asleep. Is this what is meant by wi/wo?
-
Ok, Im sure that I need to do some ST to help her go back to IS but Im not sure what ???
So Im bumping this for muself :D
Since I posted before she has only went to sleep on her own once. And early weakings is defenetly an issue. Now she wakes 6:30is all the time
Anyone has any thoughts how yo deal with this
TIA
-
Dache, I'm so sorry your post was missed!! :( :-[ How are things going now, the same?
I was thinking if she's not totally well yet, could you nap her in the stroller for a few days to at least try to catch her up? When she falls asleep in the stroller, will she sleep a full nap that way?
If you think you're ready to re-train her, then yes you can use WIWO or GW, whichever you think is best for her personality. Here is a helpful link on those two methods... Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
I'm going to move this over to Sleeping for Toddlers for you, since she's over 1. Let me know what you think hon, happy to hold your hand through this. :-*
-
Ups. I did not realized that I should post in sleeping for toddlers. I thought getting beck on track is what we needed so I posted posted there. :P
I dont know Katie, I`d say things are worse. She can not self sooth :-\
She needs help getting (back) to sleep. I thought if I prolong her A time it might help, and it did but only once or twice.
Yesterday for her nap it took me a lot to get her to sleep and she napped for only half an hour and that was it for the day. I tried putting her for a cn but she didnt wanted to hear anything about it.
And bt was after 9 :-X I tired putting her down, go in if she cries, do pd, hand on chest. But she gets so upset she holds her breath and her heart seems like it going to explode.
And she woke up many times at night. She settles "easy" for most of the time but once she was so upset I had to do get her out and do shuss/pat. And this kid did not like getting out of the crib even more then she disliked shush/pat. ::)
I could put her to sleep in the stroller but she only naps for 30-45 minutes. The only place she sleeps fine is the crib.
It seems like major SA. I`d say its because of how things were in the hospital but the few days that we stayed at my mum`s after we got out of the hospital she sttn the first night, and I did pd once, maybe twice the following days.
She is still sick, dr said chest infections is getting better but she is coughing worse every day ???
And she is teething too. One is almost out and I`ve noticed her gum is swollen where molars are.
I know that I can`t ST now. I guess what I`ve done these days is WI/WO but I havent been consistent. :( When she gets too upset I stay with her. Although she does not need me to be there until she falls asleep, not even to get drowsy, she cries when I leave. I guess she needs me there to the point where she feels safe enough ???
I`m just worried about creating bad habits bc I have done so much AP. To me it seems that things are escalating.
-
Ups. I did not realized that I should post in sleeping for toddlers. I thought getting beck on track is what we needed so I posted posted there. :P
Well, it does make sense to post there. We just encourage all posts for LOs over 1yr to come here, so there is consistency.
I`m just worried about creating bad habits bc I have done so much AP. To me it seems that things are escalating.
(((Hugs))), hon. I get it... it's hard after you've had an IS, but really there's nothing you can do if she needs it, yk. And you did what you had to while in the hospital. She needs her mama.
It definitely sounds like SA, which totally makes sense. And now with teething thrown in on top of it, ugh! I'm assuming you're able to medicate for the teeth? She tends to have rough NWs when she's teething anyway, right?
WIWO is generally recommended for SA, but seeing as she's been so ill and so you can get some sleep too, I wonder if GW wouldn't work better for you. Could you set up a mattress right next to her crib and sleep there for several nights until she's more settled? Then, you can start to gradually move away and eventually out of the room again.
It sounds like she's really OT as well. Even though she won't do a full nap in the stroller, I might use it for 2x45min naps a day to see if you can get her to be not quite so OT at BT. If you do that for 3-5 days, she may start coming around. Unless you think you can get her to take a longer nap in the crib by doing it earlier. :-\ We had a blip with DD when we traveled to ILs for Christmas one year. She was also teething her first molars and was a similar age to V. She only napped 45min on the day we travelled and it was enough to throw her into a tailspin of OT and EW. DH took her out in the car for 2x1hr naps, 4hr apart for about 3 days and we did a decent BT. By the 4th or 5th day, she finally slept a good night and to her normal WU.
I don't know, those are just some of my thoughts. What do you think?
-
Hugs it is hard having a hospital stay with a child. I had a few with the boys when they were little. I found it took at least 4 days for every night they were in hospital for things to settle down, so if they were in 2 nights, then I'd not even hope to see improvement before we'd been home 10 days.
Given how old she is throw in teething & I think it is a take it slowly & probably have to take it pretty slowly & I do think sleeping in the same room as her for a while is probably not a bad idea & look at it being likely that it will take a couple of weeks more to see something like you had before she got sick.
-
Ugh. I thought by this age sleep will be better, if not good. :P Or that I would have used to sleepless nights.
Her sleep is affected by everything, sickness, teething...but every time after the phase has passed she will go back to IS. This time its different. I can see and feel it.
I wonder if GW wouldn't work better for you. Could you set up a mattress right next to her crib and sleep there for several nights until she's more settled? Then, you can start to gradually move away and eventually out of the room again.
I was thinking the same last night at bt (which again got to 9 :-[ ). It seems that it might work for her right now, although before me being there would have been a destruction.
We live in one bedroom apartment so the crib is in our bedroom. When she has bad nights what I do is move the crib next to the bed, lay on the corner so Im almost next to her and put my hand on her chest.
So I should go to bed when she goes. Stay there all night, for a few nights then move away? I guess the first step would be moving the crib away from the bed, but me still on the bed? Then maybe me sitting on the side of the bed and then out the door (there is just one step distance between the door and the bed)? Or once Im off the bed I should stay next to the door?
Then tackling naps. She fights naps. She is clearly OT but getting her to sleep is another story. The weather is not good and the air pollution is high (although not much here) I have to take into consideration and cant really go out twice. Today dh took her out for a walk and got home just as she had fallen asleep, I moved her to the crib and she continued sleeping.
I could try that.
Or I should just do apop for 2-3 days? Do wind down then go in the room, hold her as long as she needs (drowsy, asleep...) for naps and bt too. To give her some time to rest, catch up on her sleep.
I did not give any meds for teething. I use gel. She had so much meds this past month so I thought maybe I shouldnt. She finishes the antibiotics today. Before she had two different types of antibiotics, plus the meds in the hospital...Im giving her a break. If she is still so bad Ill give her paracetamol on monday.
I found it took at least 4 days for every night they were in hospital for things to settle down, so if they were in 2 nights, then I'd not even hope to see improvement before we'd been home 10 days.
Thanks for this. Its very helpful. We were there for 3 days. But she is so sensitive (and SO! spirited) that I`d add a week more just for that. And then maybe a week more for this cold she has now :P.
Thanks so much for helping. My sleep deprived dh and I are very grateful. :)
-
So I should go to bed when she goes. Stay there all night, for a few nights then move away? I guess the first step would be moving the crib away from the bed, but me still on the bed? Then maybe me sitting on the side of the bed and then out the door (there is just one step distance between the door and the bed)? Or once Im off the bed I should stay next to the door?
Yes, this sounds like a good plan. After a few days, I'd move the crib away with you still on the bed, then I'd go sit by the door for a few days, then I'd sit outside the door.
Today dh took her out for a walk and got home just as she had fallen asleep, I moved her to the crib and she continued sleeping.
I could try that.
Or I should just do apop for 2-3 days? Do wind down then go in the room, hold her as long as she needs (drowsy, asleep...) for naps and bt too. To give her some time to rest, catch up on her sleep.
How did it go today after transferring her? If you're going to APOP, I would go that route rather than holding her, as that will be more difficult to get rid of. Or, do the exact same GW process as you plan on doing at night.
More (((hugs))), dache. Hang in there! :-*
-
She napped for 1.30h. I could try to do that for a few days, see if it works.
During the day she is hysterical,throwing temper tantrums like I have not seen, she is hitting her head on the floor :o :'(
And with sleep being a mess, its hard to know what to focus on.
Bt was late again, 8.20 tonight. Quite easy though. I tried at 7 but she was not ready so I left her be. At 8 I gave her to finish her bottle, which she did and got drowsy and when I put her down I just gave her the paci and left. She fussed for a few seconds and was asleep. With naps being all over the place I think that maybe she does not have enough A time between the nap and bt. But what should I do if she goes to sleep at 1 and naps for 1-1.5h?!
Her EW are a bit letter this couple of days, she wu at 6.30-6:45. And once it was 7. So I guess that`s better.
Im going to try for earlier nap tomorrow, maybe 11 . Let`s see how that goes.
-
Sounds like you're making progress!
But what should I do if she goes to sleep at 1 and naps for 1-1.5h?!
I'd keep the same BT, tbh. I would think the overall A for the day and her OTness would make her tired enough to sleep. She's not sleeping that long of a nap, yk. Does she typically need a longer second A?
-
Yes, I think she does ::)
Night was a bit better, I`d say. She woke up 3-4 times, but did not got up. Just cried till I gave her the paci.
Which I think she is throwing away on purpose now ???
Its 9:00 am and she was soooo OT I put her down for a nap. It went easy. I am surprised she lasted for so long.
-
Just cried till I gave her the paci.
Which I think she is throwing away on purpose now ???
Could be, they tend to all try that at some point. Are there several available to her in the crib? I'd start just telling her to get it and let her take responsibility for it. If you're not ready to do that until she's a bit better, that's ok, but I think that's probably the best way to deal with it.
-
Such a big difference tonight at bt. She went down with out a fuss.
But she has fiver 38.2 so that might made the difference.
Or maybe bc she had a 2h morning nap and a cn around 3. Bt was late again, but bc I gave her a bath to lowerher temp. :-\
-
Oh, poor girl. Hope she feels better soon. Glad she got some sleep. (((Hugs)))
-
Guess what?
She sttn :o Wu at 6.15 this morning. I tried to get her to sleep a bit more but after 20 minutes she was done.
I was also surprised how easy she fell asleep for her nap, at 9 again and naped for 2.5h. And another cat nap around 2.30
Bt was late again and I had to stay with her bc she was crying. But still what great day.
Id like to say we are out of the woods, but I know we are still long way to go. Still this givea me hope.
Bt still is late. I need to find a routine thar will work in a way that she takes a nap long enough and have enough but A time in the afternoon. She napped at 11 ut she cant stay up until than now.
-
Yay for STTN!! ;D I think it's just a matter of pushing the nap out agin until you get to 11. Maybe 20-30min every few days (unless she starts to seem UT) and do a short CN (10/15/20min) just to get you through to BT. I think what's happening now is that she's catching up from OT, but could easily be getting in an UT/OT loop with the early long nap, CN and late bedtime.
-
If she sttn the previous night last night was just the oposite.
She was up all night. I finnaly gave her milk at 6 bc I knew she'd sleep, which she dis fir 2h and that was the only sleep she got.
Its her cough.
It was a hard night but I still see it positive. She did not beed me to stay with her.A fe times she went back to sleep on her own. And the cry, it was just different.
Im waititing to see what happens when she is better. Hoping this will be sorted out bc I just got a call for s job interview and if I get the job Id feel even worse for leaving her
-
Oh dear, sorry about the night. But, glad to hear you are seeing positive changes through the sleeplessness. I'm thinking once she's well she'll be back to sleeping much better. (((Hugs))) and good luck with the job. :-*
-
Thank you Katie. I think it went well. Will know in a week or more. Than if I move on to the next phase Ill have take a test that is done only on friday and for sure its not going to be this one. I dont think that Ill start(if I start) in a few weeks So i have the time to deal both her and mine SA.
Her night was even worse. At one point she got so upset I had to pick her up. And she woke up many many times. I tried not holding my arm on her cheast just sit there. Its not working. She has learned that I move my arm and now wants to hold it. To be able to remove it I hold hers inatead. She has learned to check and see if im still holding. She pushes her hands as hard she can to make sure im there.
Ah what a mess
-
How are the molars looking? Sounds like it could be a combination of teething and SA... are you giving meds?
Glad you're feeling you have a plan with the job. I hope it all works out for you! :-*
-
Thanks Katie. I found out that there are 18 people that have applied for 15 available positions so if I dont get it Id be very surprised.Trying to think off all the positive things that Ill get form the job is helping calm me down.
Days and nights are still such a mess.I feel stuck!
I have to find the moment when she is just tiered enough, not UT or OT so that she can fall asleep on her own. And this is very hard! Its a matter of seconds,and its a hit and miss thing.
If I miss it and she is UT she gets up walks in the crib and yells for me to get her. Or she cries until I come in. Then I get her out and then I have to keep trying after 10, 15 minutes, then she gets OT and wont sleep bc she is too tiered.
If I put her down OT (which really happens) she screams and I have to stay with her or do apop to get her to sleep. Today I held her, almost rocked her until she got sleepy. I hate this!
At night when she wakes up she sometimes settles with the paci, which now she is repluging on her on own again, but other times she gets too upset and I have to lay next to her, or sit on next to the crib and almost all of the time hold her hand which now Im pretty sure is/is becoming a prop.
Last night it was just as a perfect example. She woke up the first half of the night settling on her own, then she needed me there. First I set there, holding her hand then removed the hand but still sat there. Then I went back to bed and when she woke up I tried calming her with my voice, saying shhh and Its ok Im here, mummy is here, its sleepy time. She would calm down for a minute or two and then again the same until she got to the point she was so upset that I had to lay next to her.
Then during the day bc she is OT she has tantrums and melt downs and hits her head from the floor. And got hurt today. Im rereading Taming toddlers in BWSAYP hoping that helps, but Im also thinking of starting a thread bc I think Im not dealing with her emotional explosions in the right way.
Sigh. Its so hard when I see how she can be (independent, happy, fun) and then have her smack her head on the floor, cry for every little thing, stuck to me-I cant even use to toilet.
Im going to stay home now, for a week or two, trying to figure her routine.
My goal is
Wu 7
nap 11-1
bt 7.
Im also trying to figure meal times together with snack times.
Ugh, this is me thinking out loud, a vent too :)
If you have any thought about anything, especially dealing with the night wakings, Id be happy to hear it. Or just some tough love for letting my hand become a prop :-[
-
Hi hon, (((hugs))). I think staying home and working on consistency is always good idea. Are you thinking you'll set the nap, so that she gets used to going down at a certain time? I wonder if she doesn't need more like 4.5-5hr A in the morning and that's why you're having a hard time guaging it... some days she's tired from broken nights and goes down, but some days she doesn't. :-\ What do you think?
If you want to get rid of holding her hand at night, then you might be in for a few rough NWs, but it can definitely be done. Is she still working on those teeth? I've always found that I've needed to intervene/offer a bit more help during NWs when teething, but it often resolves on its own when the teeth are through. Are the nights any better when you give meds? Seeing as she doesn't always need your hand, it may not be an issue... it's hard to know not being there.
As for the tantrums/hitting her head on the floor, please don't hesistate to post about it. Neither of mine have done that at that age, so I don't feel I can offer a lot of help, but I'm sure there are ladies who can. It's so good to get that BTDT advice and also just some reassurance and encouragement.
-
I always thought that she needs less A time in the morning and more in the evening.Or maybe bc she wakes up at night and has EW she can go down for a nap as early as 9. ???
I want to have set nap times. I think it will be easier for my mum. Off course dd cues would be the guide but Ill try and have the nap at 11 which will provide enough A time in the morning and also enough A time before BT. Right now I dont see this happening but I need to try, at least to bring things to some order.
Molars are coming out for sure. Last night bt was 9 and same as the night before, she settle on her own the first half of the night and then form 3 she cried a lot. I gave her paracetamol and put gel on her teeth and felt that her gums are swollen in many places, molars the most.
I still had to hold her hand while she calmed down, then when she started getting sleepy I removed my hand but she grabs it, so I hold her a little more, after that when I removed it she was reaching trough the bars but I put her hand back and after a few times she fell asleep. I dont know if she did not woke up or I dont remember from being too tiered but I got her out of the crib at 6:30. I think I had to tell her Im here a few more times but not sure ::)
We thought that maybe its a good idea for dh to try put her for naps and resettle her at night. So for this nap he did WI/WO with PD. At the end she got so upset and red he and to pick her up, trying shushhh/pat for a few minutes then put her down. After that he had to go in once more to replug and she was asleep. But she only slept for an hour. She is up now and it clearly still tiered. Ugh, I can see how the rest of the day will be >:(
While he did wi/wo I set there biting nails, feeling miserable like we are doing something wrong. I dont think we can do this. Especially at night.
The plan for now is medicate for teething, offer help when needed and praying that everything is resolved after the teeth are out.
Update on the rest of the day :) It was just as I thought, fuss fuss fuss. She did had a ct in the stroller. I did looooong wind down. Played baby mozart long before bt. Put gel on her gum and gave her paracetamol. At 8 I took her in the room, put her down, tucked her in and out. She is asleep now. No fuss, no nothing. :o
-
I still had to hold her hand while she calmed down, then when she started getting sleepy I removed my hand but she grabs it, so I hold her a little more, after that when I removed it she was reaching trough the bars but I put her hand back and after a few times she fell asleep.
I found that it was better to place my hand on their thigh or shoulder because you could kind of do a really slow pat so you took it away for longer periods rather than them reaching for it.
She did had a ct in the stroller. I did looooong wind down. Played baby mozart long before bt. Put gel on her gum and gave her paracetamol. At 8 I took her in the room, put her down, tucked her in and out. She is asleep now. No fuss, no nothing. :o
The cat nap probably prevented her from being too overtired. I know with both my boys they were still doing 2 naps at 18months DS1 did until 21months & I forced him to 1 nap before DS2 was born one was normally a catnap & a longer nap. With DS2 he did the 2 naps because while he was a LSN child he only ever did 9-10 hours at night & he actually had an average A time ability, so it was the only way we could make it work
FWIW the long wind-down still works with my 11yo when he has been busy or is worried about something, like last night, I sat with him stroking his hair, because he was having a hard time (for a reasonable reason) switching off. You may find that she really is someone who needs the long wind down all the time.
-
I spoke too soon. :( Soon after I posted she woke up crying. I went in, but did not hold her hand.
She calmed down when she saw me so I just stayed there.
I guess I can do GW where instead of moving away form the crib I move down her body, first holding her tummy, then her thigh...I think I read here about someone doing that. If this does not work I can try that. Thanks!
Yap, I apop naps in the stroller. I knew she was tiered bc she did not napped long so I took her out in the stroller.
How long did your lo sleep during the day? This short nap surprised us today. She usually sleeps for 2h, rarely 2:30h. I apop a cn if she had an early morning nap so that she is not OT by BT.
Sometimes I read what I have written and feel like Im doing everything right and still failing. :-\
-
Sometimes I read what I have written and feel like Im doing everything right and still failing.
Oh (((hugs))), Dache, we all feel like that sometimes. You have a sweet, spirited little sprite who has not made things easy for you. We can't control everything, no matter how hard we try. You are doing a great job!
I always thought that she needs less A time in the morning and more in the evening.Or maybe bc she wakes up at night and has EW she can go down for a nap as early as 9.
Yk, that early nap can actually encourage the EW. It's hard if you think she needs more A time at the end of the day, but right now it seems like she's hitting her second wind at the end of the day and is in an OT loop, so I think if you can push that nap out and set a time, hopefully she can regulate a bit.
The plan for now is medicate for teething, offer help when needed and praying that everything is resolved after the teeth are out.
I guess I can do GW where instead of moving away form the crib I move down her body, first holding her tummy, then her thigh...I think I read here about someone doing that.
I think that sounds like a good plan. There's no need to do WIWO if you're not comfortable with it. Honestly, I do think some LOs need a bit more of a gentle method when teeth like molars are involved. Any 'help' I've had to do with my three while teething has been easily removed once they were done.
Yap, I apop naps in the stroller. I knew she was tiered bc she did not napped long so I took her out in the stroller.
How long did your lo sleep during the day? This short nap surprised us today. She usually sleeps for 2h, rarely 2:30h. I apop a cn if she had an early morning nap so that she is not OT by BT.
I think that sounds about right. If she only does one nap, she can probably do 2.5hr, but if she's doing 2 naps, it should likely be more like 1.5-2hr. I wonder if she could have even done an earlier BT tonight... how long was the CN?
-
I am starting to think that my hand is not a prop after all. :P
Last night she slept better, still up many times but did not needed to hold my hand. Settled back with the paci.
But she woke up at 5:45 :-\ And nap time was beyond stressful. She was upset, hitting the sides of the crib,opened the side and when I was fixing it she got scared. Took her out,calmed her down (in the living room) after a while I tried putting her again,she cried again....When she finally got to sleep she slept for an hour. Again! >:( Where did these short nap came from now?!
No cn, tired early bt but she was not tired. So again, she fell asleep just before 8. Again, no hand.
When she wakes up so early like today I give her a bottle (never before 6)and most of the time she goes back to sleep for 1-2h. We all need some rest and some days this is the only sleep I get. Maybe that`s why she is not tiered when bt is 7/7:30 ??? Even if she has only one hour nap?
-
Last night she slept better, still up many times but did not needed to hold my hand. Settled back with the paci.
But she woke up at 5:45
Maybe the CN was enough to be less OT at BT, but too much for a decent WU. :-\
No cn, tired early bt but she was not tired. So again, she fell asleep just before 8. Again, no hand.
Are you sure she's not silly OT and in her second wind? ???
Can you post a routine for the last few days?
-
What an improvement last night.She woke up once, at 1:30 or was it 3:30 ??? Sleep deprivation is getting to me :P
Today
Wu 5:30. I tired resettling her until 6:10 and gave her a bottle. She slept till 7:30 (I decided to try and push the bottle as close as possible to 7)
Put her down for a nap just now (10:20) will see how that goes.
Yesterday
Wu 5:45 gave her a bottle at 6 slept until 8
Nap 11:30-12:30
Bt 8
Tuesday
early wake up, bottle at 6. Slept till about 8
nap 12-1
cn 3-3:30
bt 8
Im not sure about the previous days
Monday
Wu 7
nap 11-1
bt 8ish
I remember Monday bc its kind of a stick out. She wu after 6, and nap was 2-4. Bt was 9.
Its usually like that
Naps were almost always is 2h. I never put her before 10. And that only if I have to. My goal is 11 and Im trying hard for that.
If nap is early I try and fit a ct but its not always possible.
She has fallen asleep now with out a fuss. Will see how long she goes.
-
It does sound like overall things are getting better in terms of her settling.
I think if you're going to give her the bottle at the EW, you need to do it right away and put her back to sleep, rather than trying to settle for awhile and then giving the bottle. I wonder if that's why she's having a hard time regulating the naps, because the EW and then extra morning sleep is acting like a small nap. Then, she's not taking a full mid-day nap, sometimes having a CN and sometimes resisting. And, I'm guessing that's why the EBT may not be working as well.
I also think you're putting her down too early for a nap and her fighting and the 1hr naps are UT. Seeing as you're going for consistency, I'd keep giving her the bottle at the EW for now, have a more set WU in the morning (so, 7-7:30 and don't let her sleep past 7:30), nap at either 11:30 or 12 (I think I'd go for 12, but you know her best) and then BT at 7-7:30. If she only does an hr nap, you can do a 20min CN at 4ish. I think if you hold to this for a week or two, she should even out a bit. What do you think?
-
I dont mind guving her the bottle at ew. I thought ifnI donit all the tit will become a habit.
Ill do that then.
The nap today was 2h.the paracetamol seems to be working wbd with less fuss during the night she is happier during the day. I was also thinking that maybe i should push the nap to 12 if she is getting up at 8. You think is better to wake her at 7/730? Should I still try to push the nsp st 12 then?
I saw that she was tiered even at 5 tonight. So got her ready for bed at 6 but after the milk she was ready to play. She foght me so I let her play. She was asleep at 8:30. Looking forward to sering how tonight goes.
I was wondering, do you give paravetamol during the day or just before bt?
-
Great nap! How was the night?
I was also thinking that maybe i should push the nap to 12 if she is getting up at 8. You think is better to wake her at 7/730? Should I still try to push the nsp st 12 then?
If you want WU to be at 8, that's totally fine. I guess I was going off your original desired routine, which was WU at 7. If you're doing 8, I'd push nap to be no earlier than 12, likely even 12:30.
I was wondering, do you give paravetamol during the day or just before bt?
It depends on the day. I try to always save it for bedtime, but if it's a clear struggle with pain during the day, I will give some then as well.
-
Thank you Katie for taking the time to read my weaning, I know you are dealing with your LO sleep issues.
I can honestly say Im baffled. I just cant figure things out.
Naps are better if I put her later during the day. She is prolonging her A time. So at least 4.5h and she falls asleep independently, fast.
BT is still chaos. She needs me there but yesterday I stayed and held her hand until she calmed down then left the room while she was awake. She let a small cry but eventually fell asleep on her own.Night wakings are the same. Sometimes she can go back to sleep on her own,she replugs the paci and dozes off, sometimes she cries until I come and replug her, sometimes she needs my hand, then other times she cries and nothing is working :-[
Saturday, she napped ok, not a long nap but fine. Bt 8ish. She woke up at around one did not went back to sleep even with the bottle. Stayed in the crib fussing but not crying a lot.
Wu at 6:30 Sunday morning. We decided to stay in so that she can have a decent nap but she napped just over an hour.Had a CN at 4. Bt was 9. She slept 8h streight. And two more hours after the bottle (5:30).
Yesterday woke up around 8. Nap was 12-2. Bt was 9:30 She was up most of the night. Just as she would fall asleep she would start crying.
She is teething, one tooth almost out,I can feel it poking.She has temperature 100. Bc she is teething her reflux if flaring just a little bit. She spits up a bit, once in a blue moon. She also has a irritation in her nappy area, (she is itching a lot). (I also think this is teething related)
I give her paracetamol for teething, shower for the temperature. Leave her with out diapers, put her on the potty often, if she goes in between I change her right away. I put cream to help her itching and its seems to get better. This happens to her often so :-\
Am I just wasting my time trying to help her sleep independently? Should I just leave it till she has the teeth out?
She has 6 teeth and they all came out around the same time, its the same now, she has more then a few getting ready.
Im just not the type to leave it be. And I have pain on my right side (hip and right leg like by bones are hurting, ???) And that`s usually the side I sleep if Im next to the crib.
-
I do think the randomness (sometimes needing you, sometimes not) of the nights sounds like teething. I guess it's up to you how 'strict' you want to be... it sounds like things are not going too bad with her settling. :-\
I wonder if the day is a bit long still and that's adding to the NWs as well. At her age, I would guess with a 2hr nap, her day should still be around 12-12.5hr, maybe 13 if she's lower sleep needs.
(((Hugs))) for your hip pain... hope it feels better soon. :-*
-
I know her day is long. I try to make bt earlier but without success. Yesterday I put her down at 8. She fell asleep at 8:30 (with my help)
I guess it's up to you how 'strict' you want to be
I dont want to be strict :D
I decided to let her sleep as much as she wants during the day. This means two naps, as long as she wants to. Just to let her catch up on her sleep. She is sleeping so poorly during that Im almost sure she is OT.
Maybe that will help.
As far as the teething goes, I can just go with the flow for now (so not me) but if that means holding her hand all night, fine.
After she is over this phase Ill deal with the hand issue.
I was wondering is there a GS around now? I know there is a WW at week 65.
She slept so restless the past two nights. She is moving, turning on her tummy and falls asleep in what it looks like downward dog position.
-
I was wondering is there a GS around now? I know there is a WW at week 65.
Not sure about the GS... it seems they are usually around their birthdays and half-birthdays from here on out, but if course that doesn't necessrily mean it's true for every child.
I think it's fine to try to catch her up on sleep, but you do have to be careful of getting yourself into an UT/OT loop, especially with two naps. Too much day sleep can lead to a short, unsettled night with can then cause OT. Sometimes it's a fine balance and works differently for different kiddos! :P
LOL on sleeping in downward dog! :D
-
I know what you mean about OT/UT loop. I will be carefull about that.
EW was a 5:55,better then before.
It worked for today. For the first time in a month, I think, BT was in normal time7:00.
She napped 9:30-10:30 and then had a 40minute nap in the stroller 13:30-2:10. I could see she was getting sleepy around 6.
This feels amazing. Cant wait to see how the night goes.
Hope you work out EW soon and a lot of get well vibes for your Los
-
Thanks! :-* FX for a good night for you... enjoy your evening! :D
-
Seems things are starting to improve.
She did woke up twice after bt-8:30 and 10:30 but settled immediately the first time, second time I stayed there for like a minute.
Then she woke up 5:50. Settled with bottle and wu 8ish.
Nap was 11:30-1:00 and bt was 7:30
No fuss at all. :o :o At bt I just put her down, left the room and done. She did not even let a cry.
EW is a pain though, I hope that the time change in March will help sort that out
-
That sounds really good, Dache! :) Hope it continues!!! I'd start pushing out that nap a bit too... may help with the EW.
-
Things went for the worse :-(
She woke up around 10pm yesterday and nothing would calm her down. I let her doze off in my arms then put her in the crib,she was still crying. So I hled her long, unt I was too tiered. I had to hold her hand all night but she did ok (meaning no need topick her up).
She was fighting the nap,gave her bottl and she fell asleep. Bt today even worse.I sat with her until she fall asleep in my lap.
I am scarednto think at the 18m sleep problems. I cant deal with things now.
I wish there was a way to know its bc she is teething or something else or its bc the apoping I dis when she was sick. If its bc of the apoping I would try to ST but I dont know for sure.
:-(
-
(((Hugs))), it is hard to know. I guess what makes me think it's teething is that it's so back and forth, yk. Some days she's fine, some days she really struggles. I think if it was a prop issue, she would be needing your help all the time. :-\
Do you want me to ask for another opinion for you?
-
The post was a rant more then anything.
Some days I say to myself so what if she wants to hold my hand. She needs me, I am her mum and I need to be there for her in any way she needs me. And how long will she want to do this? If its just teething she will go to IS when she is all better. Dh laugh that it`s just for couple more years :P
Other days I get angry. I tell myself that its about time we get a break. Since she was born we`ve struggled. First accepting the fact that our baby is crying a lot (we thought it was normal), then finding out she had reflux, then finally finding out that she has reflux because she has milk allergy at 6 months, and she gets sick often, the the hospital again...I don`t even know at where my anger is pointed.
So I think we do deserve a break, and that should be her finally sttn :)
I think maybe Saturday night she woke up bc we went to a bday party and there was a lot of people, a lot of noise. She had 2+ hours wind down after that but I don`t know. And yesterday I could see she was getting sleepy at 6 but she fell asleep at 8 so probably she was ot.
She had a nice nap 11-2 today. We`ve started going out in the afternoon for walks and although we have the stroller, she is on her feet a lot. Maybe that`s why she gets tiered so early.
I don`t know if you remember I said I hold her hand instead of letting her hold mine so that I have more control. I tried letting her hold mine and she position them under my arm. It was funny and sweet, she tucked both her hands under my palm :)
I think that after she has calmed down I`ll just move my hand to the mattress. See how that goes.
Anyways, thanks a lot for your help. Bt is at more decent time bc of your advice and ew has moved to 6.
No need for another opinion.
-
You're welcome, hon. I get it, I totally get the thinking of when is it our turn to catch a break or catch some more sleep (and I haven't been through half of what you have :-[). I think with some LOs, the whole process is just harder because of their temperament. V is spirited, right? Is she a bit touchy as well? My DD is textbook/spirited, but was touchy about sleep... we went back and forth for a couple years, as little things could really set her off. DS2 is very similar. DS1 was my break! ;) While he didn't have great nights for a good while when he was teething, he's always been very easy to lead and very easy to find the right routine for... he's textbook/angel. Sometimes I get down on myself and wondering why I can't get it right or what I could do better, but honestly after 3 of them, I have to remind myself that I can only do so much and the rest (their little personalities) I can't control. Easier said than done, but helpful to remember. :)
I don`t know if you remember I said I hold her hand instead of letting her hold mine so that I have more control. I tried letting her hold mine and she position them under my arm. It was funny and sweet, she tucked both her hands under my palm :)
I think that after she has calmed down I`ll just move my hand to the mattress. See how that goes.
So sweet! :D I think you're plan sounds great!
-
Thanks Katie.
Today she prefers my hand on her face :P Napped for 1.5h so I put her down for a ct. A few minutes letter I found her standing on a plastic box that she had taken out of the closet and was trying to get out :D Cheeky monkey
She`s been waking these two days a few hours after bt trying to pass gas ::) Sounds like she is in pain and moans and is crying.
I`ve posted on health board about that. Was a bit down/mellow trough out the day too.
I think that she is a combo of textbook, spirited and touchy depending on the situation.I am learning to deal with her personalities everyday a bit more.
I say to dh that we`ll get a brake with the next one. He does not want to hear about another one :)
Just put her down now after a long wake trying to pass gas. Last night she woke up like this then slept fine till 5:40. Im hoping she will do the same but not wake before 6 :-\
-
It's always something, isn't it?! :-\ Hope you get the tummy stuff figured out.
-
I feel so beat. Getting ready to throw in the towel :'(
Wednesday and Thursday she cried so much she ended up sleeping on my chest, in our bed! First time. I felt stupid bc here I am trying to get her to sleep on her own but Im taking her in bed with me.
Friday night I spent most of the night hanging above her (we are at my mum`s for the weekend and she sleeps in pack and play so not able to put my hand trough the bars).
Yesterday she`d wake cried until I picked her up the first two times and then she basically falls asleep the second I picked her up. The next 10 times she fussed, went back to sleep with my hand or just the dummy.
Naps also was stupidly out of order. She took 2x30 minutes naps yesterday. 1.30h the days before that.
BT is again getting late, 8/8.30.
She has one tooth out, I give her meds and gel for that.
Friday I was out for the nap and dh did pd with wi/wo.He said she was done after 7-8times. GW is not working bc she gets even more upset when she sees me there and I dont give her my hand. And when I see she gets upset I give in. It`s the way she cries. She is loud, aggressive, she holds her breath...
If we do wi/wo dh would be able to do the nap and be firm about it, but I have to do bt and deal with night wakings and I dont know if I can do it.
I`d also want to wean her from the paci bc I think its bad for her teeth but I cant do it.
I can`t believe it, becoming a mum has made me a wuss :-[
I honestly just want to run away. She is so sweet during the day and then at nights its horror. I`m dreading the 18m sleep regression. Why cant she just sttn? Or even if she wakes, why cant she just go back to sleep with just the paci as before? I know its my fault for creating a prop but still...why cant she
-
(((Hugs))), Dache.
I'll leave the ST plan up to you, as you know her and your determination best. WIWO is a great tool I've used with both my more spirited children (DD and DS2). She is old enough now that you can really talk her throught it... i.e. mommy is going to leave when I put you down to sleep, I will always come back if you need me, but you need to lie down and go to sleep, etc etc. Very boring and monotone and consistent and it works really well.
I wouldn't take the paci away right now, IIWY. She's at an age where she likely still needs that comfort, esp as she's teething. Most pacis are orthodontic and lots of LOs have them for 2/3/4yrs. If you limit it to sleep times, I don't think it will be a teeth problem. You can however, fully remove yourself from the equation and give her total responsibility over it. Ultimately, it's your call, but those are my thoughts.
-
I am calmed down now, the previous post was a sleep deprived rant.
She woke up 5:30 on Sunday. So she had a short nap after 3h. Then she dozed off for 20 minutes in the train. When I gave her milk at 7 she was falling asleep. Her night was great. She woke up at 12:00 when we went to bed but I repluged the paci and she was a sleep till 5:40 this morning. I gave her a bottle and she went back to sleep till 7.
I put her down for a nap at 11. NO FASS AT ALL. She stayed there waiting for the paci and her blacked. I walked out and she was asleep. She`s been sleeping for 1.40 minutes now.
I do have a plan :)
I was reading in FAQ yesterday and found an old thread where mums talk about exactly that, the hand being prop.
And I got a lot of info and ideas :)
I`ve decided to take look at what I really want. I want her to sleep well, sttn, and then remove my hand from the equation. Will keep tha paci for Christmas to give to Santa to give to another baby :D
I think until now I was hoping things will improve on their own, or maybe I won`t have to do much. Her crying really gets to me!
So the plan(goals) is
1. Get her to a nap at 11 earliest, moving it till 12.
2. Get her to descent bt.
3. Get her to sleep at least 10.5h at night, the real goal would be 12/13h.
4. Get my hand on the mattress
5. Get my hand out of the crib but me still there
6. Get myself out of the room.
And I am aware it will take time. Weeks, if not months (hopefully not :D ). I know that GW will be hard, she will get fuming mad and cry. But I`ll deal with it somehow. Maybe get ear plugs.
Im hoping this will also help with the EW.
I have a couple of questions.
Do you think at her age 5-5.5h A time is enough or too much/too little?
If she wakes up 5:30 and wont go back to sleep even with the bottle how many hours do I keep her up before the nap? Should I count the 5h from 5:30 which will make nap time around 10 or should I try and push her to the goal nap time?
Thanks for your input/advice.
-
Sounds like a good plan, hon. :)
Do you think at her age 5-5.5h A time is enough or too much/too little?
I think it's just right, very average.
If she wakes up 5:30 and wont go back to sleep even with the bottle how many hours do I keep her up before the nap? Should I count the 5h from 5:30 which will make nap time around 10 or should I try and push her to the goal nap time?
I would push her as close to the goal time as you can, knowing that you might have to put her down 30-45min early.
As for the crying, ear plugs are a great idea. Also, keep reminding yourself it's just her way of communicating frustration. She's telling you she wants it the other way, but you're teaching her a new way (one that you believe is better). Know that she's not hurt or in fear or feeling abandoned, just communicating; so, stick with it! :)
Good luck! :-*
-
As for the crying, ear plugs are a great idea. Also, keep reminding yourself it's just her way of communicating frustration. She's telling you she wants it the other way, but you're teaching her a new way (one that you believe is better). Know that she's not hurt or in fear or feeling abandoned, just communicating; so, stick with it
Thank you for saying this. Off course I knew it, but it`s hard to remember it when she is crying so much!
Nights are so much better. I`ve pushed her nap till 11 and it works amazing. She wakes up for the paci and cries only if she can`t find one.
Getting her to sleep is also easy. I just need to get the right time when she is not UT or OT. That way she does not need my hand.
Since the last time I posted I`ve used my hand once, tonight for bt. DH put her for a nap at 11:30 and she slept until 2. I kind of wondered if she will be tiered enough for bt, and I was right. I put her down at 7:20 and she was up. I went in, gave her my hand and I was so calm. Just knew that she needs me there bc she is UT, she will let go of me when she is ready to go to sleep. She dozed off at 7:45 and I left the room while she was awake.
I`m wondering if she was UT bc the nap was 2.5h or bc she woke up at 2 instead of 1 like the previous days.
Do you think it`s a good idea to cap the nap? I will not let her have more then 2h for sure, but if I move nap time to 12 she will be up at 2. Which means that A time will be 5.5h and I`m not sure if that`s enough.
So keep nap at 11/11:30 and let her have 2h nap or move it to 12 and cap it after 1.5h?
EW is still an issue but I`m hoping it will be fixed when her naps are regular or with the time change. I`m also wondering maybe she is getting used to the bottle so early ???
-
Well, the good period lasted for only 2 days :P
The third night was chaos and I was fuming. She wanted my hand but did not wanted it, played with it and cried when I removed it.
I started having pain in the arm and got upset.
Can it be hunger? When I give her a bottle (210ml) she drinks it all, sometimes leaves maybe 30ml.
I gave her a bottle at 1 last night, she drank almost all then fell asleep. Wu at 5, stud up in the crib, moved around, sat down...Next thing I remember it was 8am. This make me think hunger.
She sounds like she is getting another cold too :-\. Aghhhh
-
Maybe thirst, is her room heated, is it dry heat? I'd say at her age she shouldn't need a night feed but could be thirsty in the night KWIM.
I'd try giving her water & see if that changes things & up the calories where you can in the day.
-
^^^ Good point! How are things going, Dache?
-
:-[ I don`t want to talk about it, it`s that bad
She has many teeth coming out, and has a cold, or maybe her nose is runny bc she is teething but she is coughing a lot.
Two nights ago she was very upset and was not able to sleep so I took her in the living room and we spent the night on the couch.
Tonight she was up for 7h. I tried EBT but she didnt wanted to sleep. After that she was OT and upset and fell asleep in my arms.
I just try not to create even more props, or other issues that I`ll have to deal with.
I try to give her more water.Thanks for the advice. And I think she is eating enough. But Ill try and offer more food too.
-
(((Hugs))), honey. Hang in there... teething is so tough for some. I remember a few nights on the couch with my DD during her 1yr molars. Do what you can and it'll pass. :-*