BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Kellyjs on May 17, 2015, 05:51:44 am
-
Hi ladies,
I know many are dealing with BT issues atm, there must be something in the water ::)
We've been having BT issues with DD for many weeks now and it's just not getting better whatever I do, so I was hoping for some fresh eyes to see what I can do to change this.
Ok, bit of background. DD used to wu 6.30, nap from 12.30-2.30, BT at 7, asleep by 7.30. She has always taken 30 mins to go to sleep since the 2-1 except on a very odd occasion. A few months back I cut the nap so she was doing 12.45-2.15 and added on 15 mins before BT so bed at 7.15, asleep by 7.45pm.
Now we are getting many call backs, specifically saying 'nappy' (we have started sporadically PT because of this), or 'water please'. This goes on for 45mins +. So I cut the nap back even further (12.45-2) and made BT slightly later too (in bed for 7.20-30). But she's not falling asleep until closer to 8.30pm or later. We've also changed up her BT routine wrt when she has her BT milk so she no longer wees straight after going to bed, so we now do that at around 6.15-30 and wait until she has a wee before putting her in the bath. Weeing in the bath started to freak her out too and resulted in an exit from the bath many Olympic high jumpers would be proud of! :P
On a side note, she gets plenty of expertise int he afternoon as we take long walks (1.5miles), she's mentally stimulated as she enjoyed jigsaw puzzles and reading books, so I'm just at a complete loss! If it is developmental, surely it should have rectified itself by now????!
-
it is developmental, surely it should have rectified itself by now?!
How long exactly has it been going on Hun? From what you have written, it does look developmental on he face of it TBH. Is there any chance the nap 'cut' was too much for her and she is now OT in addition?
What is actually going on developmentally ATM?
The problem is that for us fast moving development caused extra tiredness but a resistance to sleep.
How long is it since you cut the nap?
What's her sleep needs do you think ???
Many ((HUGS)) Honey, it is so darn hard and frustrating :'(.
-
Thanks for the reply hun, I feel like it's been going on forever but it's probably been going on about 5-6weeks perhaps?
I never know about OT with her tbh, we normally have more issues is she's UT. I don't really recognise the signs and never have :-[ :(
She is talking a little more and starting to form sentences, but that's been the same for a few months now. She's done everything else ahead of time like jumping, walking up stairs, her ability for jigsaw puzzles still amaze me :o
I cut the nap again and added the extra A time to BT about 2 weeks ago now. I do try and let her sleep in on weekends if needs be when creations said on a previous post about allowing them to self-regulate. But she's only ever slept in till 6.45am perhaps 7 ever!
Funnily enough today, we had a christening to go to and she had a NND (apart from around 5mins in the car at 3.30pm), BT at 6.20pm and still didn't go to sleep until 7.05pm. A couple of call backs and her atrocious singing as per usual. (Obviously gets her singing talents from me! ;)). What I did notice though is that many of the LO's there started having meltdowns later on and she was perfectly fine... Actually got happier and more chattier as the day went on. Is that strange then? I've only had DD to go by and judging on how others were doing throughout the day, I'm thinking she might be in the minority! ;) xx
-
So before this was she on a 'normal' routine (if there is one!) or has she always shown signs of being LSN?
She sounds super bright :) and it does often go that these clever LO's with so much going on in there little head's sleep less (from what I have seen here).
What I did notice though is that many of the LO's there started having meltdowns later on and she was perfectly fine... Actually got happier and more chattier as the day went on. Is that strange then?
One of 2 things, either she isn't OT at all, which it certainly doesn't sound like to me, or she is a LO who goes 'hyper' OT appearing more energetic and happy (Sam used to do this).
If I were to go with my gut from this post alone, I would say she is UT still. She isn't melting down before BT, she is doing beautiful singing ;) and executing 'call backs' at BT which for us are UT every time! always have been. OT for Sam and the majority of LO's I have followed as a BW are resisting BT but with upset and thrashing around in bed, seemingly trying to sleep but unable. Sorry if I'm 'telling my Granny how to suck eggs' just thinking it through whilst I type ::).
How much sleep is she getting in 24 hours at the moment ???
Have you ever pushed the first A time as long as you can, to see if long am over rides short pm for her? I think it was at this age when that came into play for Sam :/.
x.
-
My kids all do the hyper when OT or OS thing and not the meltdown and seem tired bit. Makes it hard to know when to draw the line but nice when out as I would rather have bouncing off the walls than screaming! DD3 is almost 21 months and very LSN and we are down to a 45 min nap and an 11 hr night mostly. Yesterday we were out and she lasted from 7:30 am until 6:00 pm and then zonked in the van for 20 mins...which led to an EW. For us UT or OT usually result in NW or EW not bedtime sillies.
Lol on the singing...DD1 used to have an atrocious singing voice and now she is a very talented singer, so there may be hope yet ;).
-
Darn it Heidi you just blew all my theories out of the window ;) lol.x.
-
Darn it Heidi you just blew all my theories out of the window ;) lol.x.
Lol! You never know - I could very well be barking up the wrong tree...I am so biased to LSN these days that I have to keep checking the average A time sticky before remarking on posts!
-
Haha, I'm so glad you two are finding this as confusing as I am! ;). And definitely not Vicki, you can teach granny to suck eggs anytime as it seems I have no clue when it come to my own LO!! ???
She's averaging about 10-10.5hrs ONS and the 1hr 15mims nap atm. We had one OT (I think) wu last night at 9.05pm where she was sitting up, a little upset, but it a quick resettle was all that was needed. Otherwise she woke at 5.50am and I think she went back to sleep until 6.45am? I'm not 100% as I went back to sleep myself :-[. She was starting to play up around 5.30pm last night so I'm thinking that's when she might have hit her wall with her NND. I couldn't get my mother off FaceTime to get her in bed any quicker ::)
Originally I was going to push out the nap to cap it, but I felt she did need longer before BT so cut it from there instead. We very rarely have problems with her going down for her nap (she loves it and still doesn't appreciate being woken from it) surprisingly but that has never ever been an issue for her as when I joined the site her A times were much too low for her age :-[. So maybe she's very good at learned nap times? Oh, I just don't know anymore.
She did transition to one nap fully at 11mo ish and could handle long A times in the morning every well. But although she was capable of this I started thinking she was more ASN than low? Again, I haven't got a clue now.
My only problem with pushing out the nap is that she might be even more grumpy about been woken up and the BT silliness gets worse as the A time is cut? Any ideas would be more than appreciated. I'm stumped! :-*
P.s and Heidi, that did make me lol about your DD's singing, though there are absolutely no singing genes here on either side so if she can hold a tune later in life it'll be a miracle ;D
-
And definitely not Vicki, you can teach granny to suck eggs anytime as it seems I have no clue when it come to my own LO!!
And there in lies the essence of this forum lol ;) it does get easier though, honest! (at least with sleep while other issues take over ::) )
It just occurred to me that although she is resisting BT many of the issues that go along with sleep resistance usually she just seems to skip, like every day grumpiness (she chooses to sing instead) EW with no resettle (she stays in her cot, and sometimes resettles! is that right?)
So I guess the things that need addressing are nap time and length to suit her best, and minimise BT shenanigans.
As she doesn't like being woken from her nap, I would say if you decide to cut it back, then go with the softly softly approach (if you can stand it) and cut an extra 5 mins at a time. Have her favourite snack and TV programme at the ready to distract all you can.
Because this does kinda smell of development, in some part at least I'd say, it could be dangerous to cut the nap back any more at the moment I guess, in case you are 'over fixing' what isn't broken :/.
I'm wondering if you could maybe approach this in a ST way, with WI/WO. Not in order to stimulate her brain whenever you go back in, but just to let her know 'Mammy is still 'with you' and help transition to sleep, without her feeling the need to 'call back.' If she's not upset maybe stick to every 5 mins or so. Hash out all of the reasons for call backs before she goes down if you can (BTDT) then don't indulge her, unless she has a soiled nappy.
So looking at something like this:
WU: 6.30
Nap: 12.45 - 2.00 capped (distract with terrible family singing upon WU ;))
In bed by 7.15 (maybe try the audio stories instead of white noise?)
Then tell her Mammy will be back, and do WI/WO every 5 mins or so.
The reason I'm suggesting this is to play to her personality and what is going on developmentally. I wonder if the reason she is not sleeping quickly with such a short nap is because her little brain can't switch off and she is finding it difficult to give up the contact/human stimulation, so in doing WI/WO initially and offering an audio story she may rest easier.
There is every chance this may be a ridiculous idea lol, but sometimes a little bit of straw clutching can pay off ;)
x.
-
Thanks so much hun, at least if I do wake her up with my singing there will be little chance she'll go back off to sleep hee hee ;)
Yep, you're totally spot on, little grumpiness, happy to stay in bed etc. I totally understand about over fixing it, it's just gone on so long! Thinking back though every time she is doing something developmentally she does mess about with BT even more, but it think I've cut the nap back or extended the A before BT each time too ::)
I can totally do the wi/wo, I'll just have my glass of wine and ipad perched on the stairs ready ;). I don't mind clutching at straws at all, I'll give anything a go! Thanks so much, will let you know how we get on tonight :-*
-
Good luck Hun, you never know I guess, if it's not a sleep issue and totally developmental maybe filling up her cup in this way could work.x.
-
So, she's was vvv insistent about her nappy this evening ::). Stuck with it, there's no way she's had yet another poo today. Anyway, she would've been very upset if she had done one and I wasn't paying attention. Every 5mins I went in and repeated our night night phrase. Don't think she was best pleased about all this though, I've obviously been indulging these silly call backs for far too long it seems :P.
45mins and all quiet..... ;D xx
-
Forgot to say.. I did try an offer an audio book, but as it was on my phone she automatically thought 'marmis' (music) was coming on and started jumping up and down and doing jazz hands ::). Luckily her dancing is far better than her singing, however maybe her favourite song 'all about the bass' is too much before bed??? ;) xx
-
45mins and all quiet..... xx
Not long then ::)
I did try an offer an audio book, but as it was on my phone she automatically thought 'marmis' (music) was coming on and started jumping up and down and doing jazz hands .
PMSL, I love jazz hands :) she sounds like a hoot! ;D
Sorry, this is not supposed to be amusing :-X at least you can still smile Hun :-*
x.
-
We did youtube video dance parties all winter right before bath & bed! DD3 loves music...but we kind of ended of with slow songs to calm things down.
45 min is not too bad! Fx it gets better and better.
-
Gotta keep smiling haven't we?! ;)
We do do dancing etc, but way before bath and bed. She does love it, bless her. It's a great way to burn off some energy if the weather is rubbish!
Argh, but we had an emw at 5 this morning, had to resettle, then she was up singing and saying nappy from 6, boo hiss >:( xx
-
Argh, but we had an emw at 5 this morning, had to resettle, then she was up singing and saying nappy from 6, boo hiss xx
Ugh that's rough. Clearly she is growing up to be on of those annoying 'early morning people!!!' ha ha ;)
I'm still wondering if it's worth pushing the nap way out in the hope am will over ride pm Hun. Remember what used to be does change. That particular rule worked for Sam around this age, and I was very reluctant to give it a go because he had always preferred short morning long afternoon and we also used to get BT resistance. Just maybe keep it in mind on the back burner.
x.
-
I am definitely NOT a morning person.l was hoping I would pass that on ;)
I'll give anything a go Vicki. She used to prefer a short A to bed, but it's lengthened given all these shenanigans at BT. Especially if it worked for you too. What do you reckon... jump to a 1/1.15pm nap still for the 1hr 15mims and keep BT the same? She can more than handle the longer A in the morning, it'll be no problem at all, so pick a number ;) xx
-
Yeah, I'd try for 1.00 pm if a 6.30 WU, so a 6.5 hour A time as long as you think she can handle it. We did this when Sam started short napping, so a bit different, but it put it right and despite him yawning bang on old nap time, he made it through, so worth a try? With BT the same, max 13 hour day.x.
-
Well we've got to do something. Took over an hour of wi/wo tonight ::). Only difference today was I pd slightly earlier for her nap by mistake so she had an extra 10mins.
1pm tomorrow it is! Thanks so much for helping me through this one hun. Owe you a bottle of wine and a pizza ;) xx
-
Owe you a bottle of wine and a pizza xx
Wouldn't that be nice to share with a natter :) Everything crossed that it helps eeek! I guess WI/WO isn't helping much then ::)
x.
-
Can I jump in?
I think you have a great plan to try out with the nap moving to 1pm. I'm just not convinced a 13hr day is long enough for a LO who is sleeping 10 to 10.5hr nights. I'd be concerned BT will take too long with messing around and that WU will move earlier.
Am I right in thinking this is what you are going for?
BT 7.30 for S at 8.00
10.5hr ONS
WU 6.30
A 6hr 30
S 1.00-2.30 (1hr 30)
A 5hr 30
BT 7.30 for S at 8.00
I suppose I'm just thinking that if you've already been doing BT at 7.30 for S at 8.00 but she's not been falling to sleep until 8.30 or later then, well you might not like this, but perhaps cut your losses and accept BT being 30 min later. So BT 8.00 for sleep at 8.30pm? What I'm thinking is that she used to take 30 min to fall to sleep independently anyway, so she does need that 30 min, and really that's your Y time as she self settles, but if she is calling back for an hour and you wi/wo for an hour then she's got little chance to self settle and you get no Y time. KWIM? It's kind of an hour of stress rather than just put her down and walk out leaving her to self settle.
I know I wasn't keen on moving my DS's BT to 8pm but he did 10.5hr nights and needed a 2hr nap there wasn't much option for anything else, and actually once we were in the swing of it it was really nice to see him a little more, we had more time to do stuff in the afternoon before starting dinner and things like that. When we had to move back to 7pm BT (at nap drop) that was a bit of a shock, we had to fit so much in and dash him off to bed as we'd become so used to the longer day yk?
Is she day time dry now? It really seems she is trying to be dry overnight whether she is capable or not. Is she having some dry nights? I know mine was also disturbed by his own decision to be dry at night, and as Vicki has already said, every development manages to disturb sleep. Mine was also like your DD with all the sentences etc such active minds!! Did you notice a language leap around 21 months? Do you think that was what threw her off initially? Sorry you don't have to answer all this, I'm thinking out loud, letting you know you're not alone.
Anyway - good luck for tomorrow :)
-
Of course you can jump in creations! The more the merrier! :)
I have chopped her nap back to 1hr 15mins for the last few weeks. Yesterday however I let her sleep an extra 10mims as I put her to bed earlier by mistake.
She's not day time dry yet, but she does tell me when she needs to go. She's still freaking out about no. 2's in the potty but I've been doing everything you suggested and it is getting a little better. I moved BT milk much earlier so she's not having a wee straight when she gets it's bed so I'm unsure if all her call backs saying 'nappy' are actually real iykwim?
We definitely had a language leap last month. Her words are still limited but she's putting them together to form 3-4 word sentences. Around that time she also learnt all the colours I can think of ::). Thinking about it, yes I do think it was around then when everything went a little silly.
I can definitely push the nap out, that's no worries at all. As with BT now the days are a little longer ;)
Last night was a funny one though.. Finally went to sleep around 8.20pm and I woke her at 6.45am this morning. She did have a very upset NW at 1am last night that took a little while for me to calm her down. Still, feels like forever at that time but it was only 5-10 mins or so.
So, with this in mind do I keep the 1hr 15mins nap or go for your suggested routine creations with the 1hr 30? Expect 10.5 hrs sleep and allow her to self-regulate at weekends as you reminded me last time ;)
Thanks so much all, this little bubba does like to throw a spanner in the works when it was going oh so well ::) xx
-
So, with this in mind do I keep the 1hr 15mins nap or go for your suggested routine creations with the 1hr 30?
Really up to you.
The shorter nap isn't working if you've been doing it for a few weeks but may work at a later time, if she's ok being woken (or relatively, or recovers within a reasonable time) then perhaps that's the thing to try first.
Or she can't cope with the shorter nap and needs a longer nap and shorter night - that's where mine was.
As with anything pick one, try it for a reasonable time and reassess. My main point really was not to expect too long a night, IME if a LO can only do 10.5hrs then that's all you're going to get (until something radical changes like nap drop) and you can either fight for an hour at BT, or you can get up at silly hour in the morning, or you can put to bed later.
It does sound like developmental disturbances are the main culprit to going off track, it's such a delight to hear those words, see them jump, hear them pointing out colours...and then such a nightmare at night when they will not switch off!
-
She does really prefer the slightly longer nap. Yesterday she was fine with being woken as it was a little longer, 1hr 15 was probably in the middle of her deep sleep cycle really. Going to give this a shot and hold for a week. Thanks so much :-*
-
1hr 15 was probably in the middle of her deep sleep cycle really
You may be onto something there you know Hun. It was weird with Sam, he actually was happier being woken at 1 hour than 1.15, go figure.
Could just be a matter of finding out what suits her best. Finger's crossed the 1.5 with later BT works Hun. I think it may be wise to consider yourself also WRT which route you take. I always tried to stick with a 13 hour day because that was when I was done and needed my grown up time, and after that my patience was not so good with Sam, so I felt in the long run it was the best way to go. However you seem a lot more chilled out that me ;D.
x.
-
Chilled?! Ha ha that made me lol ;D
I'm chilled when I have wine!!!! We can but give the later BT a go, anything has got to be better than this wi/wo for an hour. I don't mind so much atm now it's lighter longer in the evening. I might have revise it all once the clocks go back again ;) xx
-
Chilled?! Ha ha that made me lol
We all have our moments I guess lol :) and a different perspective of ourselves ;) x.
-
Ok, I'm back. Sorry to add to an old thread but I haven't a clue what to do anymore ???
Sleep is just all over the place atm. It seems the later she goes to bed the worse the call backs are? Last night was the worse yet with her getting a little upset towards the end.
I have tried wi/wo every time. This just seems to rile her up. Talking from her from outside the door works for a couple of mins then she starts again. I really hate that we end our days so negatively :'(
I have tried the later BT a couple of times, but tbh I'm finding them tough. I know it might sounds selfish but I feel like i don't get any time with DH at all when she's fighting sleep until gone 9. I go to bed around 10-10.30pm myself. The problem is too, I really feel like she needs more sleep. We don't have an issue at all for going down for her nap, she babbles for a minute of two and normally I have to wake except for a vvv rare occasion.
I have logged the last week and gone over it again and again. For some reason I just can't see when it's so close to home where the problem lies. She did seem a bit off colour the other day and perhaps that's thrown everything out of whack? Perhaps I do have to wake her at the same time every morning like we used to? Any thoughts would be so gratefully appreciated.
So here goes...
Wednesday
Up 6.15
Nap 1.05-2.30
BT 7.50 asleep 9.10
Thurs
Up 6.35
Nap 1.10-2.30
BT 7.35 asleep 8.20
Friday
Up 6.30
Nap 1.20-1.50 woke crying. Don't think went back to sleep, 2pm singing
BT 7.20 asleep 8
Sat
Up 6.45
Nap 1.25-2.30
BT 8.30 asleep 9.30
Sun
Up 7
Nap 12.30 - 2.30 (absolutely shattered, never seen her like that)
BT 7.20 asleep 8.10
Mon
Up 6.45 (had temperature)
Nap 11.45-2
BT 7.30 asleep 7.40! :o
Tues
Up 6.50 (seems better, no temp. I woke, she was asking for more sleep)
Nap 1-2.30
BT 7.45 asleep 9.25 brief early NW's every 45-1hr until 10.45
Wed
Up 6.45 (I woke)
-
OK I'm no help :(
It is hard to call as she had that temperature so the EASYs are unreliable but I just looked at your times and worked out the best days, how much A time etc and (without re-checking your first post) came up with this:
WU 6.45
S 12.45 - 2.15
A 5.5hr
BT 7.45 (so BT 7.15 for S at 7.45)
Then I went and looked at your first post and saw this is exactly the routine you were doing when it all went off track.
Sorry. I'll keep thinking.
...unless she was having a developmental thing with the nappy and call backs etc and needs to just return to the routine she already had :-\
-
Thanks creations. If it's stumped you too then at least I know I'm not completely losing it!! ;)
She's no longer saying nappy for call backs now. We've had to abandon potty training as she's learnt the word no and categorically states she wants nothing to do with the potty! It is the cutest no ever though, it sounds like a 'nope' :P. I'll try again with the potty in a couple of weeks. The call backs are more fake crying, shouting and generally mucking about like refusing to lie down ::)
She is trying hard with her words, but it's just been going on so long now I'm unsure if it's just developmental. I mean how long do these usually last?! She is becoming more opinionated however ::). No sign of 2yr molars yet either.
-
Really sounds UT at BT but not if you say it actually gets worse with later BT.
With the call backs you are doing WI/WO is that right?
Have you tried just sitting outside and giving verbal instruction to go to sleep? A key sleepy phrase or a firmer tone (I call it teacher voice, not nasty but authoritative ) to "go to sleep".
-
I know, I thought UT at BT too that's why I was capping the nap back to 2.15pm. It's crazy though. That one day last week, she only had an hour long nap, BT at 8.30pm and still played up for just over an hour. I just can't win :(
I have started just talking through the door. Mind you, this is only the third day now. I do think wi/wo made it worse thinking about it. She just shouted louder and louder until I went in. I'm outside her door now, but haven't said anything yet as she's singing e-i-e-i-o from old macdonald ::). Doesn't sound like she'll be winding down anytime soon :P. at least it's not the crazy, yucky shouting that we have had recently (probably just jinxed that now!) x
-
How do you think she would react if, instead of sitting outside listening to her sing, you told her not to sing and to go to sleep?
I can remember doing this with DS, I was outside and said something like "Be quiet. It's sleepy time, Go to sleep." My tone/attitude was pretty much and "I'm in charge, I know what's good for you, it IS sleep time, you need to sleep" instructional in the same way I might tell him he is not allowed to go near a hot oven or pick up the glass bottles in the supermarket or that we have to brush his teeth - non-negotiable tone. Do you know what I mean?
I also used to (when putting him down more than once I was out of the room) say to him things like "You may not sing now, go straight to sleep and you can sing all night in dream land, all your friends are there waiting for you, ready to sing with you". I suppose my approach was more like if he was singing top of his voice in the middle of the night and it was disturbing other people, just because it's only 7pm ish doesn't make singing acceptable.
I'm mentioning this because it seems you've tried a lot of tweaking without getting anywhere and it's perhaps not just routine which is impacting.
So, WRT routine, couple of thoughts (although like I said previously, think I'm more lost than you!)
- when was the last time you did not cap the nap, how long was it and did it make any difference?
and the opposite thought
- what if you capped her nap at 30 mins one day, not as a routine change but as a one-off? YK like one of those days when the nap is unavoidably disturbed somehow and you know you have to just wing it that day and get back on track the next?
-
I can definitely do that. It worked quite well last night... She tried every trick int he book to get me to go in there. Nappy came back as did mummy, that's didn't work then started asking for daddy, water etc ::). I held firm and she was asleep after 50mins. I had to wake her this morning at 6.30 and she had quite a few NW's last night.
I haven't not capped the nap in sooo long. I honestly think she might sleep the day away? The last time I let her sleep 2+ hrs is when she had a temperature and she did go to sleep a lot easier that night. but that won't be a true reflection of anything.
We do do days out occasionally which means a 30mims car nap in the car. This works as long as it's earlier rather than later iykwim. 11am ish as opposed to 3pm. Don't know if that info helps any?
Which one would you try? Xx
-
Well, either is a gamble.
If her energy at BT is coming from OT rather than UT (the shorter A time to bed being the more successful BTs) then perhaps one day of a good long nap could help? Of course you risk a terrible BT but it seems you're getting those anyway.
-
That's very true hun. I think we may be heading into OT territory considering the meltdowns we had today about every little thing >:(. I've never really had her OT before I don't think. Definitely not to this extent. Today her nap ended after an hour as she woke up sobbing. Had to sit and cuddle for around 15mins to calm her down. No bad thing... It's the longest cuddle I've had in about 18mths ;)
BT tonight went ok. 7.25 in bed, cut her off every time she started to say something with my teacher voice ;). Didn't go too badly at all. Much better than I thought so thank you so much for that one. Sleep at 8pm ;D woo hoo xx
-
Oh well done!
Keep on with that teacher voice then!! 35 mins isn't bad considering it always takes her 30 min to wind down to sleep anyway. Now you just need it to be 30 mins on her own being quiet instead of 30 mins of teacher voice :)
I think routine wise I'd let her do a long nap, even if just once, if she doesn't wake sobbing again that is. Do what you feel though, I'm just guessing from afar :)
-
I'll give anything a go hun. She slept really well last night. Woke on her own at 6.30, asked me to change her nappy then asked for more sleep?! I did give her the option of milk or more sleep and she chose milk of course. Who knows?!
Will give the longer nap a try today and see if it improves her mood at least. Thanks so much for this again hun. Once again, you're my saviour! :) xx
-
Saviour? Ha ha! I am doing very little. You're the one dealing with the grumps and call backs :)
Hope you have a better day x
-
Sorry ladies, I'm back :P
Ok, so I've logged DD's sleep habits for the past couple of weeks and she's taking around 11-11.5hrs at absolute best in a 24hr period. ONS varies but is usually around 9hrs 45 mins up to 10hrs 15.
We did well for a little while wrt talking through the door and stopping the shouting and singing. Thanks so much creations for that. We've now been battling with NW's so really unsure why that's going on either considering every day has nearly been the same give,or take half an hour. The NW's aren't even showing a pattern so don't think we can do much about that really.
My problem is, The shouting and screaming before BT is escalating again ::). I've remained consistent but tbh I'm at my wits end now. Later BT has resulted in the exact same thing too although we haven't tried this for many days in a row as my sanity couldn't take it. And her total sleep in 24 hrs has dropped significantly in the last few months. Doesn't this now put her in the LSN category? She can't really as little sleep as Heidi's DD3 can she?!!! :-X
So what do we think? Cut the nap back a lot more? We do wu from nap at 2.15pm at latest now irrelevant of when she went to sleep for her nap. Most days she's on 1.5hrs or 1hr 20. So sorry, I really wish I could do the later BT option suggested before. I think I would do it if it weren't for all the shouting :-\ xx
-
If the later bedtime is not an option then capping the nap is the way to go if you think it is ut...remind me again what are the nw's like? Oh and DD3 has been lsn all along...she went to 2 naps at 4 months, 1 nap at 7.5 months and recently started the 1-0 so tbh not sure if super lsn would come on at a late stage like this (though anything is possible right?). What was she like pre 2-1 for sleep needs? (Oh and does she have her canines &/or 2 year molars yet?).
-
The NW's are on and off atm. Some nights worse than others. Wakes up crying her little heart out but easily resettled. May wake up in the early part of the night around 10, or can be later. There's just no pattern to it. Some nights 4-5 NW's, others there aren't any... Then I wake up thinking I haven't heard her ::).
She went ct to one nap around 10.5mo. Could handle A times higher than the average for maybe forever,but I didn't have the confidence to push it until I joined the forums.
So pre 2-1 she used to have 2 x 45 mins naps a day at around 8mo. Eventually got the A time right to get a 1.5hr nap and capped 30 nap. Pm nap refusal from 10mo or there abouts. Sleep needs went up for around 2 weeks at 1yo so was having 2.5hr nap and 12hr nights, soon dropped again to 2hr nap and 11hr night until all this rubbish began. Went a bit haywire during the 18mo SR, got back on track for a bit but it's never really been the same since. Tweaked here and there, cut the nap to 1.5hrs with an earlier wu from the nap to increase last A to BT. Settling for bed just got worse and worse until I started this thread.
She has all her canines but no sign of the 2yo molars yet. I have been checking every morning and night atm :P.
-
Looks like you need to cap the nap.
If she's getting 1hr 20 to 1hr 30 nap atm I wouldn't pansy around with cutting only a little like 5 mins, I'd go straight for 1hr. Now, mine was utterly awful on a capped nap so this is not from experience, but the part that IS from experience is that if you're going to change the routine you might as well just crack on with it. You might need to experiment a little with when she is happier for the cap, might even find that she prefers it capped at 45 mins for example rather than the hr. And you may also find she can go down a little earlier for the nap, sleep less and have longer to bed.
These call backs have gone on so long at BT it can only be UT, I'm sure.
The NWs sound developmental. She's close enough to 24months now for the birthday leap to disturb sleep just to really mess you around.
I think here around birthdays DS needs a touch longer sleep but it's disturbed rather than a bit shorter and solid.
-
Thanks creations, I just think I needed someone to say it for me ;). It's just got to be UT hasn't it?!
I'll play around with where the nap needs to be, cap it at an hour and see how we go. I think I feel confident enough to play around with the timings, I just think I needed the go ahead to actually cap it iykwim?
The funny thing is, when I first *met* you finally got DD to nap longer than 45mins for the first time ever, now you're telling me to only let her nap 45mins. That did make me chuckle. :-* x
Eta.. Might have had a breakthrough! Told her not to shout tonight as her lovey (a bunny) is already asleep and we must be quiet. One shout out, which I told her to go to sleep and remember to be quiet, and except for lots of shuffling, not a murmur!! Woo hoo ;D
-
I know it's hilarious we spend the first 10 months trying to get them to sleep and the next few months stopping them sleeping! Imagine what the 1-0 is like! They want to go to sleep and you won't let them!! Or they don't want to but you need them to. It's pretty crazy, I often wonder just how other mums do it, the ones who aren't on BW that is! Without anyone to check with I'd be useless.
-
Yes I often wonder that too creations!
So funny that telling her to be quiet for the bunny worked as I did similar when DD3 had a nw last night and it totally worked! Except I told her I was sleeping lol...she must be thinking mom can talk in her sleep (I was laying on the floor next to her crib).
-
Eta.. Might have had a breakthrough! Told her not to shout tonight as her lovey (a bunny) is already asleep and we must be quiet. One shout out, which I told her to go to sleep and remember to be quiet, and except for lots of shuffling, not a murmur!! Woo hoo
I hadn't seen this. Very cool 8)
-
It's quite funny actually... Now every time she's getting ready for bed she tells me to ssh, because the bunny is sleeping!! ;D. Great minds think alike eh Heidi?!
I too do not know how other mums do it. I was speaking to a friend yesterday and her 2.5yo still takes a 2.5-3hr nap a day. If she doesn't the poor little love is falling asleep at the dinner table!! She's so laid back though, much more than I am ::). I truly do not know what I'd have done without BW, think I'd have definitely gone a little crazy.
Just to update.. We had a NND yesterday as we were out for the day and now she refuses to fall asleep in the car. It was quite a journey 50mins there and back and didn't get home until 6.15pm.. Still didn't look like she was going to go to sleep on the way home (luckily as I didn't fancy a midnight BT :P). Bath and in bed for 6.50, asleep by 7.05 and STTN until 6.30am (with only a couple of minor NW's we won't factor into it). First day capping the nap at 1hr today, didn't much like being woken but was ok after 10mims or so, BT 7.25 and she's shuffling about up there, but no call backs!! Woo hoo, think we might have cracked it, I can't thank you all enough :-* :-*
-
Sounds great!
-
Yay! Lol too cute that she is telling you to be quiet!
-
Just thought I'd update in case anyone comes across this post and has the same issues.
DD's sleep needs have dropped considerably, I didn't appreciate how much they could do that in such a short space of time. She went from a 2 hr nap and 11hrs ONS sleep (13/24) to 11/11.5hrs in 24 in around 2months.
We have had an incredibly busy week with family and she has coped very well on the odd 30min nap in the car, or NND's, late nights, not waking her in the morning etc. I logged it all. Total sleep still only 11hrs or max 11.5hrs whatever!
Now our new routine of wu 6/6.30, nap 1-2, BT 7.30 with asleep between 8/8.15, but no call backs, works well all round. Hth someone and thanks to all that helped with this xx
-
Hey Honey! Oh thank goodness you got there :) Very pleased for you, very very pleased!!!
x.
-
Thanks Vicki, you were wonderful as always ;D. Hope all is well with you :-* xx
-
Thanks Vicki, you were wonderful as always .
Not sure I was much help at all Hun! lol, but any support is good support I feel ;)
Things still a bit nutty here, but we're doing okay :P :-*
x.
-
Now our new routine of wu 6/6.30, nap 1-2, BT 7.30 with asleep between 8/8.15, but no call backs, works well all round.
Great update :)
Happy you are all coping well :) (...until the next tweak ;) )