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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: labrodyk on June 01, 2015, 08:15:43 am
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Hello amazing ladies, we're baaaaaack!
So, we've muddled through the last 5-6 months with later, capped naps and it's been very trying to say the least. There has been a couple of nap refusal days but 98% of the time he'd take the nap and need to be woken. The aftermath of waking him was horrible. however not having a nap was worse! So as I said, muddling through murky nap waters has been our life.
Then one random day a couple of weeks ago, staying with friends, we made it through the day with no nap and no meltdowns. 6.30 bedtime and asleep in 10mins (usually an hour of laying quietly in bed with even a 40min nap).
So the last 4 days have all been no-nap days. We've had an hour of quiet time with a movie a couple of days and another day I offered books on the loung and he hasn't fallen asleep...
Mood is quite good considering but starting to get a little emotional and cranky this evening.
I guess I'm after some reassurance or guidance on how to approach this - feel free to see the craziness of previous posts.
WU: 5.30/6 but stays in bed until 7 quiet or chatting with the help of gro clock
QUIET TIME: 2-3
BT: 6.30
Is this enough sleep and is it likely to lengthen? He's never tacked on before and always been an early riser. I don't want to make him stupidly OT as he is prone to that. What should I do?
Thanks soooo much.
Laura
xx
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Are you still offering a nap? If it were me (though my DD was not napping by this age so not discounting the idea that the nap has gone for good!) I would continue to offer it given the NNDs are so recent and if refused aim for 45 mins to an hour quiet time in bed. Leave him some books or quiet toys maybe? And allow him to regulate whether he needs the nap or not? We did this with gat success for a number of months and just pulled BT 30 mins early if she didn't nap. What was BT before the NNDs? I think a 12.5-13h day for just having dropped the nap is probably too long to be sustainable though.....
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Hi Katherine,
Our issue has always been that he will ALWAYS take that nap of offered which throws off bedtime and he still wakes at 5.30/6 so nights were down to 9 or less hours and then he'd want to make the rest up with a 1..5+ hour nap. If I cap it to the hour or less (was down to 30mins at one stage) the meltdowns afterwards are horrendous and he doesn't add any extra to his nights. Unfortunately I have no other means of offering the nap outside of his bed (eg. Car or pram) and even then he'll sleep for over and hour. Long answer to your question - no, not really offering but if he falls asleep on the lounge with a movie or books I'm not stressing.
Getting him to actually go to his room for a nap or quiet time is proving extremely difficult as well - he used to be so good!
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Well perhaps just aim for some down time then and if he chooses to nap, go with it. We tried for naps every day (but had a nap refuser....) and when it didn't happen we sometimes got a late car nap which was capped at 20 mins (any longer she was awful to wake as she had gotten into deeper sleep). Besides the meltdowns how was night sleep with a short capped nap?
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Night sleep was okay - would take an hour to fall asleep at 7 and be awake before or just after 6 (always varied) so maybe 10hrs Max.
Tonight has been the NW night from OT over the last 5 days.
NW: 3am, took back to bed but called me back so went back for reassurance. Not asleep until 3.35.
NW: 4.10, whispering rambles about a specific toy and swaying next to my bed. Took him back to bed and is still lying awake whispering to himself at 4.35!
I'm hoping he fell back asleep around 5 and then I didn't hear from him u until 7.20 when he came intolerant room. (20 minutes after his gro clock turns on).
We had a nap on the lounge today for an hour 2-3, poor bub was very tired and asleep quickly. I had a movie on the tv ready to go so he wasn't too grumpy.
I've always put him down at 7 because I figure taking an hour to go to sleep then gives him more sleep than when he does it with a later bedtime as he still wakes at the same time.
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I'm hoping you can help me make sense of this...
Yesterday I offered him a 1hr quiet time/nap on the lounge and he was asleep in a few minutes (after 5 days of no nap) and the night wakings.
Nap: 2-3
BT: 7.20. Not asleep until 8.30.
WU: was awake when I checked on him at 6.10 but lay quietly in bed.
Today however he has been an absolute basket case. Crying over silly things since he got up and fighting quiet time, a nap or any sort of rest yet is considerably tired.
I'm not quite sure what I'm doing. I've been trying to keep him in the one spot for some quiet time since 1pm, he's finally fallen asleep just after 1.30 I think. Gave him roughly a sleep cycle and turned the tv on to avoid tantrums. About 2.20 he stirred I think.
Hmmm, so very confused.
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I think it's part and parcel of the 1-0, it does get rather messy for most I'm afraid :(. Perhaps a 1h nap was too long and led to UT at bedtime despite being OT from the day? How about trying catnaps instead (if you can get them) on days where he seems to be struggling? Just 20 mins or so to tide him over/take the edge off the tiredness? And I would stick with a set BT if you are having lots of NNDs. Hang in there and hopefully he will start regulating his sleep a little better. You may also get some later WUs :). Have you considered trying W2S on those early mornings?
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Thanks Katherine. How do you offer a catnap? I mean, H wakes and immediately starts crying and screaming "go away I'm still sleeping". It's impossible considering he's never self regulated!
Have tried W2S but it's just not happening. He either wakes completely and then stays awake, or stirs but wakes at usual time anyway.
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Just wake him after 20 mins. You may be surprised, he won't be in deep sleep so may be a lot easier to rouse. I'd do it out and about if you can and have a distraction ready.
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I can try, it's a bit hard as I'm quite isolated without transport and am home most days. Should it be at a set time?
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Hi Laura, just popping in to offer some hugs and let you know we went through/are going through the exact same as you with nap dropping. My dd will be 2.5 yrs in a few weeks and it could have been me writing your post.
Katherine also helped me so much and offered great advise and support (Hi Katherine :))
My dd also had a nap every day if offered and I always believed the more sleep she got the better until it started to have the opposite effect! She would have a 1 hr nap every day from roughly 2.30-3.30, however, this started to give us long chatty nw's every 2nd night or just very unsettled sleep. With Katherines help and advice I cut the nap to 20 min and offered it only every 3rd day if needed. I also brought bedtime forward and at a set time. Apart from a couple of blips along the way this is working out well for us (major jinx coming up soon because of this) ;D
In the beginning we were getting a lot of nw's which I think were mostly due to a habit started by myself and DH of taking her into our bed when we couldn't resettle her. Got that sorted and now we're battling ew's whichresults in her waking an hr earlier than she has ever done in her life which means we are only getting 11 hrs sleep with/without a nap but working on that too so fingers crossed .
My advice is set a bt and stick with it and also reduce length of nap to 20 min as Katherine suggested above. It wount be overnight success but we will all get through this (hopefully )
Carmel x
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Thank you so much Carmel and Katherine! It's so nice to know I'm not alone.
We had that short 40min nap and waking by 2.20 yesterday. BT was 7pm and took about 45-60mins but quietly laying in bed. No NW's.
Should I offer that everyday from 1.30ish? Or cap at 20mins from the same time every day or only every few days?
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Hi Carmel, thanks for popping in to support and good to hear you guys are doing ok :)
My feeling with the 20 min nap would be its so short it really doesn't matter what time you do it. We did mid-afternoon but whenever really. You kind of have to play it by ear, we used to offer one every 2-3 days to begin with and then just as and when she appeared to be getting very cranky x
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Thank you! Will do.
And bedtime? We had a wake up somewhere after 6.40am from the 40min nap so yesterday was a no nap day. On a NND in sticking to a 6.30 bedtime but from mid afternoon he is SO hyperactive it's crazy and is waking before 6am. He's just started chatting at 5.57AM so has obviously been awake for a little while.... Annoying as we have an engagement party today which will be another NND and I don't really want any meltdowns! Argh, toddlers and sleep send me mental. Lol
And with the 20min nap, BT at 7 should be okay? Ideally I'd like to keep that time....
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Harry was in bed at 6.30 last night, asleep by 6.45. How much night sleep should he be getting on NND? He keeps waking at 6 or earlier...staying in bed until 7 but chatting, singing or laying quietly.
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We just stuck out 6.30/7pm BT depending on nap or no nap. You may need to try a bit earlier though on a NND if your lo is struggling, DD would do a 12h night usually on a NND, maybe a bit longer. It can take time for nights to lengthen though and may not consistently until nap is gone x
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We really appreciate your help Katherine - thank you.
We're doing 2 separate EASY's at the moment but he's waking very early and is cranky and upset and today fell asleep at both 11.30am and 2.30pm in the car, nothing I could do to keep him awake. Was yelling at him and everything. Tantrums have also escalated :(
EASY NND:
WU: before 6am. Chatting, singing, talking until gro clock sun at 7
2-3ish movie on the lounge but is a stretch to do this and is grumpy and tired from midday but is refusing to rest earlier.
BT: 6.30, asleep in 10mins.
EASY ND:
WU: chats and sings from 6am so wakes before that. Waits for gro clock sun at 7
Nap: 2ish if I can push it for 20mins. Takes me ages to fully wake him as he keeps falling back asleep or cries for ages if I redirect him to something else.
BT: can still take up to an hour. A couple of times it's been 30minutes. But usually it's just before 8pm
Interestingly he was asleep by 7.40 from 7pm PD after all his car naps today, the last which was an hour ending at 3.30pm! He has to be absolutely exhausted - where am I going wrong here? Inconsistency? Child just hates sleeping? Lol
I know I sound like a crazy lunatic but I'm 21 weeks pregnant now and I'm absolutely shattered. Once he starts singing "fireman Sam" on repeat from 5.50 until 7, sleep time is over :(
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You don't sound like a loon at all :-* the 1-0 can really be tough!
I'm guessing he had a lot of accumulated OT today and just needed to work through that. I did tend to find that long naps backfired here with bad nights, but you may be lucky :). I know it's hard to wake them though. I guess your other option is to accept a long day and short night, I know some people who have done that. So accept say a 6am to 8pm day and allow a proper nap. Maybe he's not one who will do well with nap capping.....I'll ask one of the others to pop in with some btdt experience on that front xx
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Hi. I've just read through your thread.
I'm wondering what his routine was like before the 1-0 started? I mean before you capped naps and nights went short - the last time you were on a steady routine where he was fully rested. Can you remember?
So, my experience with the 1-0 was that DS was clearly in the transition but could NOT cope with a capped nap and neither could he cope with a NND (we have a scar on the forehead from an attempted NND where he was standing still and just keeled over at 4.30pm, needless to say I didn't try that again!) so like you we had a few months of messiness. Here's what I found though...
Good routine: Nap was set at 2hrs 2-4pm, BT 8pm.
When nights went as short as 9hrs or even less (total sleep 11hrs in 24) I felt I really had to do something.
Attempts at capping the nap - huge fail - DS was a mess, nap was shorter, nights were still short, overall less sleep and a very grumpy boy.
Attempts at one NND per week - huge fail, by 4.30pm he was a mess and a danger to himself.
More attempts at capping at 1.5hrs - not great.
In time I eventually realised that we were back on our original routine. 2hr nap and roughly 10hr night. I was supposed to be capping at 1.5hrs but couldn't bare the melt downs so was often leaving him the full 2hrs and do you know what, I think he had 'tried' the transition thing and decided he wasn't ready. May sound a little crazy.
Then one day he was poorly with hand, foot and mouth. He slept a 2.5hr nap (I didn't wake him as he was poorly). The following day he refused his nap and pretty much that was the end of napping.
I did try the odd car nap but discovered this made him very angry. If he nodded off in the car it was best to let him but to wake him on arrival somewhere, not to leave him to sleep longer. Micro naps really.
After around 2wks of not napping and getting more cranky (I was exhausted!) I invited him to nap in bed with me, he had never slept with me before and I didn't think he would go for this but he agreed, we both slept on and off for 2hrs. And that really was the last of the real naps. This was at 2yrs 7 months. Since then he only falls to sleep if in the car for a micro-nap once in a while.
I felt very strongly that my DS needed a regular routine every day the same. If that meant long nap and short night then that was it, when he dropped the nap (cold turkey in the end) his routine was again regular, same every day, predictable and this is what he needed. He couldn't cope with capping or some days napping some not, too unpredictable, it never gave his body a chance to adapt. When he stopped napping I think I was happy to get 11 to 11.5hr night. Over a little time this increased to 12hrs - btw he NEVER did 12 hrs as routine, only ever for a short period through a nap drop or illness so the new 12hr nights were unbelievable to me - a real treat!
Looking at what you've tried I think I would be tempted now to just let him sleep a long nap. Even if it makes nights short, it may be the balance he needs to get the most sleep he can and at the time of day he needs it.
If (especially after some long naps) he refuses a nap then I'd let him lead on that, do EBT and continue to offer the nap the next day. So:
WU 6am
nap 2-4
BT 7 (if it takes an hour to go to sleep) for S 8pm
or
BT 8pm if he will go to sleep quickly.
or
I would even go later with BT if you get refusals because he does have the option to sleep later in the morning and did do it one day which proves he can in the right circumstances.
You never know, he could do what mine did - one monster nap and then a cold turkey drop!
If you decide to continue with the capped naps I would bring BT much earlier, I don't see how he can cope with a 20-30 min nap and less than 10hrs at night. So:
WU 6am
nap 2 - 2.20
BT 5.30/6pm for S by 6.30/7pm
Another thing I wanted to mention is he is 2.5 yo so he is going through the half year developmental phase which can really throw things off - yk just in case you weren't thrown off already. He might actually need more sleep just now but have more disturbed sleep too, NWs may be OT/UT of they may be just a part of the usual half birthday messiness which you have wrapped up along with the 1-0 messiness. Basically I wouldn't read too much into NWs around this time.
I hope this doesn't just add to your confusion! 1-0 really is a messy time. You're clearly putting a ton of work into it, and maybe this is a time to listen to him rather than us?? if he is shouting at you to let him sleep, well, maybe let him?
Happy to answer any questions you might have about my experience if you have any.
((hugs)) too - you'll get through this.
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Oh Creations! This is SOOOOOOO us, thank you so very much for posting. You get where I'm coming from and it seems almost impossible but we will get through this. You're very right and it feels like we've come full circle and I just concede defeat and go back to what we were doing several months ago.
After the car naps yesterday he was still asleep when I got up at 6.30. He woke shortly after but had more rest despite the longer and later sleep. This meant though that when I went to get him to stay in bed for quiet time at 2, he fought me tooth and nail. He was ok at first but i ran outside to get the washing only to find him out of his room saying he didn't want quiet time. I took him back and reinforced gro clock and that he didn't have to sleep. He was very upset and screamed for some time before going to do a wee and hopping back into bed to fall asleep around 2.40! It's so confusing.
When we've done a later bedtime of 8pm in the past it has resulted in less overnight sleep, taking the same 30-60mins to fall asleep and waking at 6/6.30.
On a NND it is 6.30-6 which isn't too bad - he just can't handle too many of them in a row.
I have so many questions but no idea where to start. lol.
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Try to look at balance of sleep rather than how much over night sleep. I know for some LO it's best to look for the way they get the longest over night sleep but for mine (and perhaps yours) it isn't at night they need it, they need the break in the day.
Mine also had nap refusals until he worked out he needed the nap and then stopped refusing. How about try 2.15 or 2.30 on the days he wakes a little later in the morning? Or if he refuses at 2 don't fight it, just say ok then try again at 2.30?
I'd try the long nap, 2hrs if he wants it, even if it means night is as short as 9 hrs. I know 9hrs is not ideal, but with a 2hr nap this is 11hr total and day sleep seems to count for more than night sleep (no idea if this is true but someone told me for an adult 20 min of day sleep is worth 1hr of night sleep and maybe something similar is true of children?), basically a split sleep of 11hr s total could result, further down the line of a 12hr night which is more hours of sleep but all in one chunk - whilst your LO actually needs part of the sleep hours in the day instead of night but then doesn't need so many hours total.
Confusing?
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Ok, will try it that way!
He's NEVER been a 2hr napper - it's usually 1hr10, 1hr20 or 1hr40min max. We let him sleep until 4 (I think that will have to be the cut off, even if he takes a while to fall asleep at nap time) and he was in bed at 7pm and asleep at 8pm when I checked. Will see what the night and morning brings.
Thank you ever so much for helping, and Katherine too, you're both stars!
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Good luck! Make sure you stick to any plan for a good few days to a week so you can assess if it's working or not x
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Hello lovely ladies!! This has been our week so far, what do you think???
Tuesday 9-June
WU: 6.30 chatting
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00 (fought me for 40mins before falling asleep at 2.40) - 3.55
BT: 7.00. Asleep by 8.00 after laying quietly.
Wednesday 10-June
WU: 6.00 chatting
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.55, asleep by 2.10 -
BT: 7.07. Asleep 7.55 after laying quietly.
Thursday 11-June
WU: 5.40 singing/chatting
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.20 - 3.50.
BT: 7.05. DH saw him standing still in the middle of his room at 7.30, head down whispering nonsense! H then said he needed to do a wee (but didn't), took him back to bed where he started crying and didn't want DH to leave. DH comforted him before leaving again and he was asleep 8.07.
Friday 12-June
WU: was stirring/rolling around when I checked in at 6.10 but not chatting until 6.45 so I'm not sure.
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.05, asleep by 2.15 - 2.40 oob.
BT: 7.05, asleep by 8.00pm after laying quietly.
** really cranky before nap, OT or something else not sure. Just not a happy chappy :(
Saturday 13-June
WU: call out at 6.35 and chatting from 6.44
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.55, asleep 2.10 - 3.45 OOB. I poked my head in and he was laying quietly awake, saw me and got up.
BT: 7.05, asleep 8.00 after laying quietly
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Do you know the nap length Wednesday?
And
Friday Nap: 2.05, asleep by 2.15 - 2.40 oob.
is that a typo or he only napped for 25 mins?
and I see he was a bit cranky there but how do you feel about his overall mood with these non-capped naps?
Although there's at least one night there where I'd say it was way too short, I don't think we can look at individual days in isolation with a transitioning LO. Overall it looks, time wise, to be ok really, roughly 11 to 11.5hr+ sleep in 24, is that right?
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Sorry! It must have got cut off when I tranferred from my notes!
Wednesday was 2.10-3.30 and Friday was 2.10-3.40 not 25mins! His overall mood isn't 'tooooo' bad. I can get him to 2pm but he's very ready for some quiet time and is falling asleep each day so far.
Interestingly we're getting exactly the same ONS length as we were on a capped nap but he's a bit happier through the day (and I like not waking him). I wish he'd sleep longer at night but I don't think it's ever going to happen, lol. You're right it's roughly 11ish hours in 24hours.
Do you think I should pull the nap back enough to give him time to fall asleep and then if he sleeps 1.5hrs he'd be up by 3.30 and he MAY fall asleep a little quicker at bedtime or that might not do anything?
This morning he came into my room asking for a toy he'd lost in the night at 6.35, he's been singing and carrying on in bed since!
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Interestingly we're getting exactly the same ONS length as we were on a capped nap but he's a bit happier through the day (and I like not waking him).
I thought so but didn't dare say :)
So overall he is getting more sleep, same night sleep as the capped nap routine but now he gets longer nap so total is more sleep.
My guess is that his mood is going to improve over the next week or so as he settles into this routine. He might still be a bit OT from those capped naps even though he is not taking the opportunity to nap long or do longer nights. Sometimes I think they just can't do longer sleeps than they are doing (otherwise everyone would have a simple 1-0 transition by just cutting the nap and expect the night length to instantly lengthen to the perfect length).
Do you think I should pull the nap back enough to give him time to fall asleep and then if he sleeps 1.5hrs he'd be up by 3.30 and he MAY fall asleep a little quicker at bedtime or that might not do anything?
Honestly I don't think it would help - but you can try!! :)
My personal opinion is that at this point you are getting the longest (or close to the longest) nap and night he is capable of. I fear if you try to get BT earlier you will just get earlier WU.
Has he always taken so long to go to sleep at night? Just wondering if he would fall to sleep faster and a teeny bit earlier if you put him down later, instead of relaxing from 7pm and falling to sleep at 8, maybe he could be active until 7.30 and fall to sleep at 7.45?? Don't know how you'd feel about keeping him up 30 mins longer, it changes how your own evening routine goes.
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Thanks Creations - yes, his mood is slightly increasing although he's pretty tired. In regards to the later bedtime, we were offering this a month or so ago, with into bed at 7.30 with the longer nap in the hope he might tack on but he was taking a full sleep cycle to drop off so it was 8.15 asleep (or later) and wake at 6/6.30 so we moved it back so that he was getting a bit more sleep....
We've had a few interesting days with car naps, staying at grandparents and tonight (has been my birthday) and he's been getting out of bed after bedtime. I'm hoping it's just because of routine change (which he doesn't do well with) and not because he's caught up on sleep and going to be annoying :(
Sunday 14-June
WU: 6.30 into my room asking for a toy that was lost in bed; back to bed but singing/chatting until 7.00
Nap: 2.20-3 in the car - really wanted to go back to sleep but couldn't and cried for a while.
BT: 7.00 - hopped out at 7.20 and I took him back to bed.
*** We stayed at my parent's house and DH and I went out for my birthday but mum told me he hopped out multiple times after we left wanting mummy :( mum took him back and read books, sang and pat and then crept out (typical nanny stuff) but wasnt asleep until 8.30/9!
Monday 15-June
WU: unsure.
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.25 asleep in car, woke at 3.05 and dozed trying to get back to sleep until 3.25 but was then wide awake.
BT: 7.15. Hopped out at 7.30. Finally asleep now at 8.
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In regards to the later bedtime, we were offering this a month or so ago, with into bed at 7.30 with the longer nap in the hope he might tack on but he was taking a full sleep cycle to drop off so it was 8.15 asleep (or later) and wake at 6/6.30 so we moved it back so that he was getting a bit more sleep....
I'd stick with it as it is then and just accept he is one who like to relax in bed thinking about his day before he nods off.
You may need to be firm about staying in bed after BT, does he have any reason to get up? eg is it to use the toilet? Can he easily call you if he needs something? I think I'd be putting some realistic and fair rules in place which involve not getting out of bed.
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We had a bit of a catch up last night from the last two days and didn't get out of bed until 7.30am! Can never replicate that, just happens randomly.
We are REALLY firm with getting out after bedtime and it never seems to be for any particular reason! We do EVERYTHING before he gets into bed (toilet, good nights, books) so if he hops out I don't really know why...because he can!?
The rule is that if he gets out after BT then we close his bedroom door. He positively hates that so he has a cry briefly then I open again and say goodnight. He will then stay put, I close it for a little longer if he does get out again and so on until he's asleep.
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Perhaps the last week with the extra sleep has just topped his sleep tank back up. The last few days have been as per the below. Not sure on the wakeup as he's been quiet but he bounds out of bed at 7am so he's definitely clock watching...
We've also gone back to getting out of bed at bedtime - he doesn't even have a REASON. I ask and he just lets me take him back to bed but doesn't ask for anything. I think up to 4pm is too late for us, as is 3.30 to be honest (hence why I was capping at 3) but that puts me back at square one.
The only time he would fall asleep in 15 mins or so is if he wasn't put to bed until maybe 9 or 10pm. of course I haven't ever tried that (and have no intention to) but he would still wake at the same time - there would be no tacking on.
Sigh, lol! i'll never crack this.
Tuesday 16-June
WU: ?
OOB: 7.30?!?!?
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.15 (accidentally woke him at 3.25) but he lay in bed until 3.40
BT: 7.00, chatting for a while. Sitting up playing then wringing and crying from 7.36 asleep at 8.05
Wednesday 17-June
WU: ?
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep at 2.30 - 4.00 OOB (had wet the bed)
BT: 7.05 in bed, out of bed (and wouldn't tell me why he was out or what he wanted) at 7.20. Sitting up in bed at 7.55 but asleep by 8.20 when I checked again.
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TBH I don't think you can expect much more than this.
Even if he's not sleeping until 8pm and even if he's waking at 6am to watch the clock until 7 (and he may not be waking that early, it could be just a few mins before 7am) then he is getting a 10hr night plus 1.5 ish hour nap, 11.5hrs in 24hr is really about all you can expect.
The only way you can alter the routine is to put him to bed later but I think you said he still takes a long time to fall to sleep so there's probably no point trying to put him down later.
Personally I would not be shutting the bedroom door if it makes him cry. I'd put him in bed and tell him firmly he must not leave his bed until the sun is up and if he needs anything he can call you. If he calls out I would either return to the room to respond or respond verbally from outside depending on what the call/request/tone was like. I'd be aiming to convince and reassure him that when you are needed you will be there, no matter what, rather than shutting the door which is in effect a rejection. Don't get me wrong, I have been very firm in my voice tone with DS but I wouldn't put barriers between us if he was seeking attention. I suppose it's in my mind that whilst I DO want my child to stay in bed and go to sleep I also want him to have the confidence to call for me or come to me if he is in need - just as example if he vomited in the night he needs to know he can come out of his room to get me or call for me, I wouldn't want him to fear that as a result he would be put in the room with the door shut for him to cry yk? Hope that makes sense.
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Thanks Creations - totally understand your comments and have tried to implement. Not having much luck but we'll get there!
Our last few days have been interesting; including a NND. I was happy with tonight staying in bed (we chatted about it a lot at dinner) but it worries me losing so much sleep. He really wanted to go to bed at midday today but we pushed through...
Thursday 18-June
WU: ? Chatting from 6.40
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2-3 quiet time in bed, didn't sleep
BT: 6.30. Asleep 6.40.
Friday 19-June
WU: ? Chatting at 6.50
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.20 - 4.00
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.20 after laying quietly.
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Those two days look pretty good to me :). How is his mood?
I agree with Creations about shutting the door if that's not something you usually do, you don't want fear to become a part of his bedtime. Mine have always slept with door shut so that's normal for us, but I would always go right back in if they cry rather than waiting for longer periods. Really glad that you seem to be having some success with him laying down quietly though, that's great :D
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those days do look good :)
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Thanks ladies!!
I'm just not sure whether 1-1.5hrs at night and 30mins for nap is an issue in regards to missed sleep?
His mood isn't too bad but he's EXTREMELY hyperactive all the time, especially before bed. We have quiet books and quietly feed our cats before brushing teeth, toilet and into bed with a few songs. I can't be sure of his wake up time but in finding it hard to relax if he's not asleep.
we're also VERY quiet when it comes to sleeping - he was a reflux baby who never slept so once we got him to sleep we barely breathed. Something we still do to this day and I'm starting to get worried about it and the new baby.
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Rather than looking at amount of missed sleep (due to relaxing in his bed and falling to sleep later) I am looking instead at the amount of sleep in 24hr. I know it's an estimate due to not knowing exact WU time in the morning but I think at this age and estimate is fine and if he was waking hours and hours earlier in the morning he'd let you know about it, even the most angel kids who stick to gro-clock rules can't last hours and hours without letting someone know. And the sleep in 24hr seems to be 11.5 ish hrs (might be some 11hr some 12hr). Which really is fine.
You won't know about the noise disturbance until it happens. We've always felt that DS can hear us sneeze but we went away for one night in a hotel and DS slept right through the loudest most piercing fire alarm I have ever heard. He did not even stir.
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Thanks Creations - it's so hard not to let these things bother me. His mood is so telling of poor sleep and he's already such a spirited high needs toddler as it is. I think we're going okay at the moment.
What are your thoughts on a slightly later bedtime? It's not ideal for us family wise but I put H down at 7.20 tonight and he was asleep at 8.15. Would 7.30 be better? He still wakes at the same time in the morning but not sure whether 15mins or so extra sleep from put down at 7 vs. 7.30 is going to make an awful lot of difference? Things aren't too bad overall as you mention so I don't want to go tweaking a good thing.
Also, what do you think my next move is? Not to pre-empt it but it is it likely he'll start to cut that nap down himself or just take longer to fall asleep at nap time and sleeping beyond 4pm? All kids are different I know, just trying to get my bearings and a handle on what I should do to assist him with any transitions and difficult periods.
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Would 7.30 be better? He still wakes at the same time in the morning but not sure whether 15mins or so extra sleep from put down at 7 vs. 7.30 is going to make an awful lot of difference?
It think it's takes him a while to fall to sleep at BT anyway so I'd choose BT based on how long it usually takes him to go to sleep.
Also, what do you think my next move is?
Sorry, not sure. He may refuse nap or take longer to go to sleep at BT or start to EW...I don't think there's a way to know how it will go. I would continue for as long as you can how things are and reassess when things become unmanageable, and FX when it becomes unmanageable he'll be ready to go without the nap.
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Thank you Creations!!
He's doing a few no nap days (not consecutively) and finding he wakes SO early on those days. I can't get him down any earlier than 6.30 but he's only doing 10hrs MAX. So if he's down at 6.30 (asleep 6.40 last night) he was awake singing songs at 5.30 and then started crying as it got closer to 7.00. We are at a friends house and we slept in the same room so this could have played a part but how do we get through no nap days when the wake up is so early?! Will be a nap day today for SURE!
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but how do we get through no nap days when the wake up is so early?! Will be a nap day today for SURE!
I think you answered that yourself :) Follow it with a nap day.
You'll be so glad when that nap is just gone won't you - and you can back into a regular routine again.
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Oh I just want it gone! Lol. His behaviour is atrocious today.
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Strange days Creations...after the early wake yesterday he did a 50min(ish) nap in the car and was in bed at 7pm, asleep by 8pm HOWEVER he woke again at 5.30 crying. waited a few moments before heading into his room and he said "he didn't want a hair cut!". lol. Not sure if he had a bad dream or not but his mood and behaviour the last couple of days has been really horrible.
Today was:
WU: 5.30 crying and didn't go back to sleep.
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.15 - 3.55 (I went in and got him up as he was just laying there awake for a while).
BT: 7.20, asleep by 8.20pm
I'll write back in the morning if he's woken early again but I feel bad for him - something upsetting him? OT? UT? grrrrrrrr
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I'm so glad I'm not the only one going through this. We have the exact same issue with DS (2.5 also). Our sleep schedule is now all over the place. But I have read through the replies and I think we can sort of fix it. I may have to just stick to a WU 7, nap 1-3:30, BT 8:30 (9:30-10 asleep). I hate how late he falls asleep... But when he has NNDs, he is a major grump and has absent seizures the next day. And if I cap his nap, he wakes up in a horrid mood and I have to deal with it til BT. Hmm..
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he said "he didn't want a hair cut!". lol.
:)
Did I tell you the one about the apple core?
Kids with their sleep talk and crazy dreams hey!
This could well just be a developmental leap and nothing to do with your routine. I'd just hang in there for a bit and see if it passes. His recent bad mood could well be developmental too.
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Thanks creations!! No, please tell me about the apple core! Lol. I need a laugh.
He got a bit more sleep last night so a bit happier today which is nice. Just worried he might be getting a second wind at nap time (2pm). He definitely had a longer A from WU to nap yesterday (fell asleep quickly) and today has taken 45mins (!!) to fall asleeep but he was showing tired signs after playgroup and we got home at 12.30... Just can't quite figure it out!
Will keep on chugging on like you say.
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Yes it was certainly a developmental leap here, DS always had what I call anxiety dreams (they don't appear to be night terrors or night mares), mostly I didn't know what they were about, but the occasional time when he verbalised his dream or sleep talked it was quite a surprise what could cause such anxiety.
The apple core incident - well, he'd been eating an apple, it was finished, he told me it was finished but we were walking along the street and my hands were full so I asked him to carry it until we reached a bin. When we reached the bin I invited him to put it in, he was really pleased with this, putting something in the bin himself. So he dropped it in, smiling, happy yk? But that night in his sleep he must have been processing this incident in a totally different way. He was shouting out and screaming for his apple core as though it had been his prized possession which I'd forced him to give up. He was really upset by it shouting "My apple core, oh my apple core! It's gone!" and sobbing like he lost his lovey.
I noticed in the following days he would be upset if I put food in the bin (at the end of a meal when he was full and had left food on his plate) he had some sort of possession/loss anxiety going on.
We've had all sorts though - shouting for his spanner in the middle of the night was amusing, a lot of "No! I don't want to" in his sleep, a lot of numbers and letters were heard when he was younger. I have a laugh at some of them. My favourites are when he bursts out laughing though :)
I honestly think if there is a developmental thing going on they will not sleep so well, but it can't be 'fixed' with routine and you could tie yourself up in knots trying to work it out.
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Oh Creations, that is just hilarious and ridiculous - these kids!!
We're back in a bit of a pickle because our mornings now involve calling out to find lost comforters at 5.30 in the morning and not going back to sleep so nights are dropping down to 9.5hrs at most. He does lay until 7 but he's cranky.
Yesterday was a nnd as he was trying to falling asleep in the car at 1pm (after 5.30 wake) but then when I finally got him down after some lunch at 2pm he just lay in bed awake and got up at 3pm when his gro clock turned on. My mum put him down later than I asked at 6.30 not 6.00 and he we had NW at 1am (he brought me a pair of socks, crying) then was awake when I checked at 6 - calling out for his comforters from 6.45. He doesn't cry - it's almost a game of "mummy. Mimi" and he trials different voices. It's very frustrating and annoying because shortly after he gets up he doesn't want anyone but me and threw a MAJOR tantrum because hubby was letting me get some extra sleep. *sigh*
It's just all so confusing. On a nap day he's in bed at 2 but usually not asleep until 2.30 even after waking at 5.30/6am. I then need to wake him at 4 or he's just waking himself. Bedtime is 7 and it's an hour again of laying quietly. We tried 8pm the other night but it was 8.45 when he fell asleep and again woke between 5.30/6. Don't know if things would be different if that was a consistent bedtime but I'm too scared to try! Lol.
Part of me says keep the nap and deal with the nights but the other part of me is so over him being "tired" and or cranky through the day!
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Those nights sound too short to me to be restful...I'd probably go back to capping/dropping and see if you can get better nights x
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I agree the nights are short but when he took a 50 min nap the nights were just as short so overall sleep in 24hrs was even less.
How long does he sleep if the nap is moved earlier, to say 12.30 or 1pm? A couple of times you said he's tired then but then doesn't sleep or takes a long time when you put him down for a nap at 2pm.
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Yes, nights were the same length on a capped nap so you're right overall sleep is greater now.
We haven't done 12.30/1 nap for a long time - in the car he'll fall asleep. He's taken himself to bed when cranky around that time to sleep but he's just lay quietly for 1/2 hour and then gets up saying "I don't need a nap". I can certainly try it.
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aaaaand 5am (11hrs it is). I knew there was a reason I don't put him down at 6pm. This is going tobe a LOOOOOONG day and he'll likely take a nap at 12.30/1.
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Wondering what would happen if you were to car-nap him each day but make it a micro nap. This could be something you haven’t tried?
When mine dropped his nap there were times he couldn't resist the lull of the car and dozed off but I learned very quickly I was not to leave him sleeping or to try to extend the sleep by driving around. Literally 3 or 4 mins nap on the way to the park and then wake him once there. He would be dopey for a few mins but perked up once awake - this was totally different to capping a nap for my DS because on a capped nap he would be upset for the rest of the entire day which I just couldn’t live with, his mood was awful until an hour before BT.
It's just a thought, one of those out of the box ideas. long naps are getting him more sleep in 24hrs but not really giving a settled routine, capped naps end up being less sleep...but a micro nap might help him get through the day and then extend his night.
Don't know - it's a bit of a long shot.
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This would be a brilliant option to try...IF I could drive :( another month and hopefully I'll have my licence but still would be without a car each day as hubby takes it.
Sigh, there's always a hitch with us!
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Oops, sorry!
Well, in that case I'd prob continue with the longer nap as it seems to get more sleep across 24hrs but perhaps Katherine has a point that it's worth trying capping again. I mean they *do* change (prime example mine doing 2hr nap then suddenly none).
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Lol, that's ok!!
If I did cap it, should I put him down earlier? Perhaps back to 1.30 or too early?
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Will he even go down earlier?
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Hi creations, yesterday was this:
WU: 5.00, didn't fall back to sleep
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.30, fell asleep at 1.55 - went to him and he was awake at 3.30
* had an absolute meltdown with banshee screaming and not letting daddy do any of the bedtime routine and wouldn't calm for me either.
BT: 7.05 , asleep about 7.35.
WU: I checked the monitor this morning just after 6 and he was awake.
Will try with this seemingly shorter morning A today and do 1.30.
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Sorry, I don't know. If it was mine I'd be concerned that the earlier nap would perpetuate the EW, that's how mine was. It makes sense for it to be earlier if it's going to be shorter though.
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Oh creations why is this so hard?! lol. I thought it would perpetuate early rising too but nothing seems to make any difference - nap, no nap, capped nap, later bedtime, earlier bedtime, later nap, earlier nap. It's SO annoying!!
I'm going on the assumption that he's awake/dozing from 6 because I dont have much of an idea. We bought a video monitor because it's been annoying me so much.
Yesterday was;
WU: 6ish
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.00 - 3.00 (he was quiet and his gro clock sun was on but awake). He hopped out when he heard DH come home around 3.15
BT: 7.10, asleep 7.50
Monday 6-June
Around 5am he is quite restless and hopped out of bed quietly to recover his toys and I THINK he went back to sleep but again was awake/dozing just after 6am.
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.20 but dozed until I got him up at 3.30
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.35 (!) but then woke at 7.50 calling out for comforters! He got out of bed and found them himself and went back to sleep by 8pm I think!
What's that about!? Lol
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And is he still tired and cranky in the day?
Are his nights OK even though they are only about 10hrs?
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He's definitely not completely happy, you can see he gets tired and cranky quite quickly early morning around 9/9.30 so we try to get out...
Nights are okay in that we don't have the night wakings, just the early mornings which is 50/50 whether he wakes and calls out or just lays quietly for 2 hours!!!
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Not sure what else you can do. I realise he is not 100% happy but it looks like this could be just about all you can expect until you can properly and fully drop the nap. Looks like 11 to 11.5hrs sleep in 24 is that right? That was all mine did too until the nap went and then he worked up to 12hr nights.
Unless you feel you want to try going for a cold turkey nap drop now? See what happens over a week?
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Creations, you're right ... It's all he can do. 11-11.5hrs/24 hours absolute MAX and perhaps even as low as 10.5 some days.
I was thinking about dropping the nap CT but as I'm not getting any major dramas with the sleeps (although very low in quantity) I don't think he's ready. I'm certainly not ready either with severe pelvic pain at 26 weeks pregnant so perhaps not a good time to go CT on nap.
I'll see what happens over the next few days - today went something like the below. I'm really curious why he wakes half way through the second sleep cycle. He slept 1.55-2.35, stirred and fell back to sleep. then 20mins later he stirred again and then woke fully at 3. despite the sun on his gro clock he stays in bed sucking his finger and rolling around - I presume trying to get back to sleep.
WU: 6.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.00 tried to get back to sleep but couldn't and got OOB at 3.20
*was a bit upset and cried wanting to watch a movie but wasn't too bad.
BT: 7.05, asleep 7.45
thanks so much for your help though, I think some OT behavior may have been curbed by the earlier nap but it's so hard to know. I try everything to try and get him more sleep but he just won't do it. Haha.
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I suspect that his crying and upset mood when he wakes from his nap is due to being UT and feeling dopey from the nap. I know I feel rough if I sleep in the day, really rough, DS does too. When they are babies they seem to have their nap then ping awake and alert but as they get older it's more like an adult's sleep where a day time nap might be needed (for instance tired parents need to get a nap in the day) but then feel really groggy when they wake and take more time to recover from that grogginess. Maybe being moaning or being clingy as a result (it's the same feeling I get if I have a long lie in in the morning - I vaguely remember a few of those in the distant past ;) )
I think it's just something to go with for the time being, take it as a sign he is well rested rather than something you can fix, and as you say, you don't feel ready to drop the nap right now so this is just an interim period.
Sorry to hear you have pelvic pain :(
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Thanks for your help Creations. For some strange reason the last 2 nights have both been close to 11hrs night sleep + an hours day sleep.
Wednesday 8-July
WU: 5.55
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.00 - awake 3.10. OOB 3.28
BT: 7.05, asleep 7.45
Thursday 9-July
WU: 6.30/6.45 (?!)
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.10 - 3.10. Dozed and OOB at 3.30
BT: 7.05, called out mummy at 7.20, asleep 7.55
Friday 10-July
WU: 6.45
I'm thinking that any tweaking may disrupt this little blip/phase but I don't want to hit an UT loop or anything...
Why is it that if I capped the nap I couldn't replicate a longer night? Lol. I'm not complaining and I'm sure it will go out the window (we're house sitting for the next week so should be interesting...) just wondered what your thoughts may be?
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Well a funny thing happened with DS's night lengthening too. His night had gone very short which was my cue to try to cap or do NNDs, neither worked though, disaster. He'd been having a 2hr nap. By the end of my trials I was kind of trying to do a gentle cap at 1.5hr (rather than let him sleep 2hrs) and accepting the very short nights, I took it that he just needed to do this long nap and short night to get to an older age where he could cope with the nap drop better, but really capping at all meant he was in a foul mood the rest of the day so I was very hesitant to do it and often he ended up back at the 2hr nap...but his nights did lengthen a bit making it all manageable. I'd have to look it up to know exact times but I think he went down as low as 9hrs or less ONS and then lengthened back to more like 10.
So I have no explanation but did experience similar.
I would just keep going as you are even if it only lasts a short while it will do for now yk? The longer you can 'get through' on anything near manageable the older LO gets and the more chance there is of being ready for the final nap drop.
When the nap drop does come it could be very sudden and of course there could be a period of short nights and some grouchiness from OT but the night should then lengthen again over time.
It was a long transition period for us - I couldn’t' believe other people IRL managed to drop the nap as LO turned 2yo and had NO problems!
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You make total sense Creations and that's exactly what I'm trying to do - find what's manageable.
Today I really should have got him up...
Friday 10-July
WU: 6.45
Nap: 1.40 - lay awake for an hour chatting and singing and carrying on, fell asleep SECONDS before his gro clock sun came out. We let him go 2.40-3.40 with a kind of 'soft wake/cap'
BT: 7.05. He's had two trips to the toilet not doing anything in 45 minutes but finally fell asleep at 8.05. Oops!!
^^ we aren't at home so that could be part of it.
NW: 3.15, crying to do a wee so took him - nappy was dry and he did a wee. Just took a while to get back to sleep, at 4.15 so an hour :(
Saturday 11-July
WU: 6.30
1) should I adapt nap time based on wake or just keep at 1.40?
2) should I cap the time in bed if not fallen asleep - perhaps a little shorter than an hour or is that not enough "rest"?
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1) should I adapt nap time based on wake or just keep at 1.40?
I'd leave nap time where it is unless WU is significantly later.
2) should I cap the time in bed if not fallen asleep - perhaps a little shorter than an hour or is that not enough "rest"?
If he's fussing in bed I'd get him up, if he is properly resting I'd leave him to it.
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Thank you!
Interesting, we've only had 9hrs as a result of yesterday. Perhaps I should get him up if he's not asleep after 40mins or so.
Before this morning, wake up has been 45mins to an hour later 5.45/6 to 6.45....
Saturday 11-July
WU: 6.30
NND.
BT: 6.20, asleep 6.30
NW: 4.25-5.45. Came to my room asking for the toilet but didn't need to go when I took him. Fell back to sleep for an hour.
Sunday 11-July
WU: 6.45
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.15 - 3.30. Dozed until 3.50 then OOB.
BT: 7.00, asleep at 8.05
Monday 12-July
WU: 5.50
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.05. Spoke over the monitor to encourage him to get up and OOB at 3.15
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.45
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Hello again! How would you proceed with earlier mornings, taking a while to settle at nap time and again at bedtime? We've had a few NND but he's only doing a max of 11hrs so it's 6.30 (6.45 asleep) - 5.30 wide awake. When I say WU at 6 it could be a lot earlier but he's awake on the monitor when I check and waits for Mr Sun at 7.00.
Here's a snapshot of our last week. His behavior and mood isn't too bad but on NND he is a crazy , defiant lunatic around 5pm...
Sunday 19-July
WU: 6.30!?
Nap: 1.10 (crying he wanted quiet time), lay quietly until 2.10 - NND
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.40
Monday 20-July
WU: 6ish
Nap: 1.35, asleep 1.45 - 3.05 lay quietly a little longer before I got him up at 3.15
BT: 7.05, asleep by 7.45
Tuesday 21-July
WU: 6.00
Nap: 1.35, asleep 2.00 - 3.30 (I woke him)
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.35
Wednesday 22-July
WU: 6.10
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.30, asleep 2.15 - 3.30 (I woke him)
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.45
Thursday 23-July
Nap: 1.45, asleep 2.15 - 3.30 (I woke him)
BT: 7.55, asleep 8.15.
NW: 4.40 (couldn't find his pants?! Lol). Lay quietly until 6.30
Friday 24-July
WU: 6.30 chatting
OOB: 7.00
NND
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.45
Saturday 25-July
WU: 5.30, calling out for dropped toys. Returned them but he never went back to sleep.
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The nap days look good. Roughly 11.5hr total sleep in 24hr, is that right?
I think I'd continue with that as long as you can.
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11/11.5 hour days on those he naps but I'm waking by 3.30 to try and maintain 7pm BT. Just seems that nap he can take an hour to fall asleep at if he's had a few good night/day sleeps.
DH said today he went down at 1.30 (asleep 1.50) and woke at 3.20 but OOB at 3.30. However, he was SO ridiculously hyperactive it was insane. We then had a 30minute meltdown just as we were hopping into bed over flushing the toilet and that he wanted his wee to come back out of the toilet (?!) which took a few white lies to get him to calm down from. BT 7.15, asleep 8.15!
It's just these early mornings which seem to do our heads in. Once Mr Sun is up at 7.00 he can already have been awake for 1.5hrs so sometimes by 7.30/8.00 or mid morning he is an absolute basket case.
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Hmmm, barely 9.5hrs ONS last night waking and having a chat at 5.40am!
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Such random naps, random wakes and tantrums like crazy. ..developmental? Or should I be tweaking something. These early mornings are killing me!
Saturday 25-July
WU: 5.30, calling out for dropped toys. Returned them but he never went back to sleep.
Nap: 1.30, asleep 1.50 - 3.20. OOB 3.30
BT: 7.15 - major tantrum over nonsense. Asleep 8.15.
Sunday 26-July
WU: 5.30
Nap: 2-2.40 (car)
* absolute horrific tantrum again, but in the shops from 3.50-4.20. screaming all the way home in the car.
BT: what should I do?!
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I think I'd go for a longer nap (slightly later then don't cap or cap later) and a later BT. I know you would prefer the night to be longer but I'm not sure you'll get that until the nap has dropped. With a later/longer nap he should make it easily to a later BT and the over night sleep coming later should help with the early morning moving later.
It's a tricky transition, hugs, it won't be for ever xx
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How do I get a longer nap? The most he's ever done is 1.5hrs? How late bedtime is necessary?
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11/11.5 hour days on those he naps but I'm waking by 3.30 to try and maintain 7pm BT.
I mean not to cap at 3.30 if/when you are doing to maintain BT. So perhaps nap at 1.45/2.00 without capping. Likely he'll wake 3.30/4.00 and do BT at 8pm rather than 7am.
Moving nap and BT both later has the effect similar to clock change, just shifting the routine on.
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Creatioms, you have helped me SO much you incredible lady. Thank you. I thought I'd touch base with you again only because we've had this random extension of nights after built up OT and sickness - similar to your LO. I'm not quite sure what to make of it.
I have been capping and maintaining our 7pm bedtime as opposed to letting him sleep. It is causing a few issues in that by 12.30/1pm he's started losing his cool VERY easily, super temperamental and has me walking on egg shells (similar to after waking from nap). Having said that, he's getting far more sleep than he used to - up to 12hrs+ in 24 hours. He's even looking at Mr Sun in the morning and laying there dozing rather than getting OOB which is so weird for us! I've kept an EAS log to show you...
Monday 27-July
WU: ?. Came to my room at 6.20. Returned to bed
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.50, asleep 2.10 - 3.30 (capped/woken)
BT: 7.06, asleep 7.36
NW: 3.20 - returned to bed. Asleep 4.10
Tuesday 28-July
WU: 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap: asleep 1.50 in car. Woke 2.30. Fell asleep in my bed (I fell asleep at 3) and woke at 4 and he was asleep.
BT: 7.20, asleep 8.05
** sick with fever**
Wednesday 29-July
WU: 7ish, dozed until 8.00
OOB: 8.00
Nap: NND. Rested in front of movie
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.45
Thursday 30-July
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.15 - 3.30 (capped)
^^ took me an hour to calm him down and he was miserable until bedtime
BT: 7.05, asleep 8.10
Friday 31-July
WU: 6.20, retrieved comforters from floor then lay quietly but chatting from 6.40
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.15 - 3.30 (capped)
^^ hubby said he was really good for him. They just watched a movie until dinner time :)
BT: 7.10, asleep 7.45
Saturday 1-August
WU: 6.45
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.10, asleep 2.25 - 3.30 (capped)
^^ not too bad after waking but still a little edgy for the rest of arvo
BT: 7.05, asleep 7.35
Sunday 2-August
WU: 6.45 - I woke him to take DH to work...
Nap: 2.00 in the car but wouldn't sleep despite being really tired/cranky
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.15
NW: a few cry outs between 11.30-12.30 but didn't wake entirely.
Monday 3-August
WU: 7.15 but dozing now still at 7.30 despite mr sun up :)
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It is causing a few issues in that by 12.30/1pm he's started losing his cool VERY easily, super temperamental and has me walking on egg shells (similar to after waking from nap). Having said that, he's getting far more sleep than he used to - up to 12hrs+ in 24 hours.
I wonder if a 2pm nap is too late? Mine did have a 2pm nap but I let him sleep a full 2hrs.
Mind you - there is likely no perfect routine during this transition, so if this is working for you then I'd just stick with it!
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That's a good question and I wondered the same although we had a home day today and his mood was much better (not perfect but better). After his long night I thought 2pm would be fine but he just lay in bed and hopped out to get books and didn't sleep at all!
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Perhaps 2pm is ok for a home day and try to put him down earlier after a busy morning of activity or an out and about morning.
Sounds like a good night sleep led to a NND so perhaps EBT is needed on those days.
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I was thinking 2pm would be fine because he can do that with minimal issues when he wakes at 5 or 5.30 but not when he's had an 11/11.5hr or 12hr night and woken at 6/6.30 and even 7? Surely he's not tired. He's never done this before so it's really confusing.
Have put him down at 6.30 tonight to compensate for NND.