BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: Jenifer on June 05, 2006, 23:59:43 pm
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My 9.5 week old daughter has started something new .. Screaming when you put her into feeding position and then refuses to latch on (crying, stiff back, etc.). She cries a real cry (tears) and is REALLY upset. It can take 15 minutes to get her to calm down. She may latch on then, or may start screaming again.
What I have done is get her to calm down with a soother in her mouth and then eventually swap the boob for the soother.
She started this once on Thursday night (5pm feed), once yesterday (same time) and now the last two feeds.
What is going on? Is she just not hungry yet? (She's on 3 hour EASY.) Is she telling me its time to start stretching out toward 4 hour EASY?
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Here are some thoughts you might not have thought of yet:
Have you been eating something differently?
Have you tried different feeding positions?
Could baby be overly tired at that point?
Have you tried pumping to see how much milk u have around those times....maybe u have a slower flow at those times?
You can never tell what it is...but maybe these questions might help u to pinpoint the cause.
Good luck and hang in there :P
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Well, up until the last feeding I thought maybe it was because she was tired. But this last time she had just woken up ...
Could be the flow. I hadn't thought of that ... :-\
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Wow! That must have been a shocker for you to have her suddenly screaming at the breast like that.
Here's information on babies fussing at the breast and diagnosing the reason:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html
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But she cries hysterically BEFORE even latching on ... ??? As soon as I got her in position she started.
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Can you try a different position? See if she still cries.
Also, do you have a fast letdown. I noticed in your other post you talk about green poo and that can be related to fast letdown. If so, try nursing from a laying position. Perhaps other moms have some tips to slow a fast letdown.
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I have heard for fast let down you can pump for a few minutes before nursing and that may help it not be so much for the baby.
You could try moving to a 3 1/2 hour easy and see if she is ready to move further apart in the feeds, but my guess would be that it is something else. Most BF babies hang around that 2 1/2 -3 hour point for awhile ;)
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But she cries hysterically BEFORE even latching on ... ??? As soon as I got her in position she started.
That's because something about the feeding is upsetting her. She knows that when you put her in position the feed is going to follow, so she wails because she knows what's coming.
I'm assuming she feeds fine once you use the soother and switch it out for the breast. That makes me go hmmmmm.....If she was in pain, wasn't hungry, your let-down was too slow, or something else you would think that she would continue to fuss after you started the feed. Although if you're problem is a fast let-down than once the let-down faze was over she would settle in ok.
Think hard and try to figure out if something happened recently that could have upset her and make her wary of breast feeding.
Something else comes to mind...though you would probably already have thought of this. Could she have an ear infection? If she hasn't been sick than she shouldn't have one. Is she maybe sick with a cold? I remember being really confused about my son's sudden, irratic refusal of the breast when he was four months. Turns out he had a whopper of an ear infection.
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No she hasn't been sick and tried other positions / chair / boob. But you've made me think ..
The very first time this happened was in the doctor's office right after her first shots. The doctor told me to sit and try to get her to breast feed (to calm her down) and she screamed and screamed (while I'm trying to calm her with the breast - did not work). Is there any way this could be related?
If I do have a fast let down and express some first won't that make the problem worse? Won't my body continue to make that milk? Wouldn't it be best to just let baby regulate it?
Is it too early to start moving her toward a 3.5 - 4 hour EASY? (She's 10 weeks on Thursday.)
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You should follow her cues and if she seems able to go longer, then let her go 3.5 hrs between feeds.
Pumping off the first bit of milk will keep the supply up, but your little one won't get the gush of letdown. Again, women say nursing from a laying position slows the letdown so the baby is not overwhelmed. The baby can't regulate letdowns, only the amount they get into their belly. Fast letdown usually leads to gas issues as they gets into them too fast. Some babies actually sputter and choke from letdown. But again, do you know if you have a fast letdown? If you don't than this wouldn't be the problem. You could used the pumped milk for a dreamfeed, or stockpile it for a night out, etc. Have you tried the football hold? How about walking around with her in a sling?
It could be related to the dr's office, but that's a bit out of my reach of knowledge. Also, around 2.5/3 month mark, the soothing properties of my breastfeeding quickly dropped. Maybe it was just a coicindence that happened.
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Hi Jennifer,
My 13 week old daughter started having the same problem when she was about 9 or 10 weeks old too. It seemed like one day she started screaming before or at most of her feedings which I found very distressing. We even tried giving her breastmilk in a bottle and she would scream sometimes too. I consulted her pediatrician and investigated the possibility that she had reflux. She prescribed Mylicon drops and gripe water and monitored her weight. A week later, she only gained 2 oz, but toward the end of the week. I noticed that she was eating better so our pediatrician monitored us for another 9 days days. At the end of the 9 days, she gained 8 oz and her pediatrician was no longer concerned. Most of the weight gain was due to her waking up in the night hungry.
One of my suspicions is that my daughter did not want to eat because she was too distracted by the world. I noticed that she would start this behavior if I talked too much to her or diapered her before eating or if my husband came and talked to me while I was feeding her. Anyway, I have been having luck trying to feed her immediately in a dim quiet place after she wakes up and I try not to excite her too much before or during her feeding. She hasn't screamed for few days so far.
Sometimes if she started screaming while I was feeding her I could get her to eat if I walked around and fed her or turned on the hair dryer to relax her during feeding. Also, my husband could often get her to eat from the bottle if we put her in car seat with the sun visor pulled tp limit her stimulation and rocked her to calm her down.
Her screaming really upset me but I am relieved that she rarely does it any more and that she is healthy and can smile big.
I hope that your daughter is better soon.
Katherine
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She had her first vaccines last Thursday - the first day this started! This is common?!??!
She hasn't done it yet today ... hoping she's forgotten all about it!
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Let's hope she keeps this up!! Let us know how you make out.
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I too have been having trouble with my 14 month old screaming when I lay him down (cradle position) to breast feed. He will latch on, suck for a few minutes and pop off. He will cry when I try to bring his head back onto the breast. I have tried to wait for a half an hour and try again (thinking he wasn't hungry a the time) and he has still cried. I have given him a bottle because I don't want him to be hungry and don't want his sleep disrupted at night because of hunger (he has accepted the bottle.)
I hadn't considered fast let down. I know that mine can be quick but it is only in this past week that he has reacted this way. I hadn't considered an ear infection either. I had wondered about teething? But no teeth have errupted. I have discontinued taking the pill because I noticed my milk diminished when I had a period. My period ended last Friday. Could he be responding to a change in my hormones? I have noticed that I have the sensation of fullness in my breast between feeds that diminished while I was on the pill. Mabye it is a flow problem.
Basically this behaviour started this week onTuesday, Wednesday and again today. He was fine yesterday and ate well at each feed. He doesn't react this way at night. I'm puzzled because this behavior is not consistent with each feed. I'm wondering if he would do better if I switched him to a bottle. Maybe he is rejecting the breast now? Any suggestions? I really want to continue to breast feed (it was a stuggle to get established) but I do not want my baby to be hungry and in distress. HELP!
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cminer - it could be ear infection or teething - maybe take him and rule out the ear infection first. Teething could take a little while to show up :-\
It also for sure could be the hormone change - I know I noticed a difference around that time of the month, esp in the early months.
If it's not consistent I would think it is a supply issue or teething - the teeth bother at differing times not usually continually. How often is he eating now? Is it time to space the feeds a little further apart to allow for a good supply and make sure he is hungery? He is old enough he may just expressing his opinions on a matter.
:) :)
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I had to give him a bottle this evening before bed as he screamed when I tried to breastfeed him. Granted he was tired also. He took the bottle and drank 4 1/2 onzes. I have him on the 4 hr EASY already. I spoke with our Public Health Nurse and she recommended following his feeding cues and not watching the clock. I will have his ears checked. It breaks my heart to think he is in pain. He does drink the breast milk I have expressed in the same day (so maybe it isn't hormonal.)
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I had to give him a bottle this evening before bed as he screamed when I tried to breastfeed him. Granted he was tired also. He took the bottle and drank 4 1/2 onzes. I have him on the 4 hr EASY already. I spoke with our Public Health Nurse and she recommended following his feeding cues and not watching the clock. I will have his ears checked. It breaks my heart to think he is in pain. He does drink the breast milk I have expressed in the same day (so maybe it isn't hormonal.)
My LO did exactly the same thing at about 9 weeks, never did find any cause but it wasn't pain, as soon as I sat her upright she stopped crying, I tried everything from colic drops to cutting dairy out... nothing worked. THere is good info on the La Leche league site about Nursing strikes. http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/strike.html Lots of skin to skin contact is important, feeding in the bath can work... for us it was latching her on standing up walking about! I know that is hard, I wish I had a 'Freedom sling' then as it would have been so much easier to breastfeed standing, but instead I just knackered my arms!
ONe thing I would be careful of is Bottle feeding, it can lead to her not wanting the breast again if she has an easy alternative - perhaps use a syringe if she is desperate.
I used to get the breast out and walk about with her near it all nonchalantly, unti lshe looked interested and calmed down.
I hope it goes well.
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Today was a good day so far. He ate well at each feed. No crying.
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Yeah ;D ;D ;D
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Yesterday was not a good day. My lo cried everytime I tried to feed him. He did not eat much at all yesterday. My husband was able to give him 2.5 oz from a bottle as I was out for the afternoon. He refused to take a bottle or breast feed very long from me. He did not have very wet diapers during the day and did pass gas with some stool in the evening (in the bathtub!) He was in bed by 8pm and woke at 10pm, breastfed without any difficulty at all. Woke again at 2am and 6:30am and breastfed without any crying. He did however, pass gas several times when eating during the night.
Wonder if he is gassy and that effected his appetite.? I am not ruling out teething. Plus he is a baby with reflux. He does sleep well, and does not need his bed raised. I try to keep him upright and sitting as much as possible during his waking days. I've tired gripe water and Oval (minimal benefit.) I just don't know what to think. He hasn't eaten again since 6:30am. He is on a 4 hr EASY and due to eat shortly. He is currently napping. He has been napping well during the day and sleeping well between feeds at night. I hope he has his appetite back today. It was stessful for me that he wasn't eating yesterday (I had a few tears.) He cried for me as soon as I came home and until I put him to bed at 8pm. My husband said he was good for him and did not cry or fuss at all. Any suggestions or insights? ???
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Is he on any meds for reflux?
{{hugs}} to you. I am sorry you're having such a rough time! :(
Sharon
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No he isn't on any meds for reflux. What should I enquire about? Are there any in particular that you have in mind or have heard about? I enquired with a Walmart Pharmacist and he suggested Oval, but isn't that for gas? Even yesterday he fussed and didn't eat well in the afternoon. I did manage to feed him after this supper time nap and he ate well then. He ate again at 8pm and received his dream feed. He slept 7 hours straight last night. He seems to be comfortable enough to sleep. It is when he is awake and I try to feed him that he gets irritated with it all. He is passing gas when he eats or I am doing the pat/shush to sleep. He can spit up quite a lot after he eats, I never pat his back to burp him. He can spit up several times between meals, even up to a few hours after he ate. He did not show any signs of distress until last week (he is turning 15 weeks this Sunday.) Fortunately he ate well this morning. I hope he continues to eat well today.
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Yes, Oval is for gas. It doesn't help reflux. :( How did you get the initial diagnosis about reflux? I would bring him back in to the doctors and see what they say. It is great that he can sleep at night and eats well most of the time but I would ask the doc anyways as untreated reflux can cause esophageal damage and can also create eating aversions. Sometimes too, refluxers will only eat a bit until they feel full (as they are obviously hungry) but will then stop because they know the pain is coming, kwim?
{{hugs}} to you!
Sharon
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Exactly the same thing happened to me around the same time - my DS would hardly eat anything during the day, but would make up for it at night (a situation I'm still trying to remedy some months later!). I think it was related to a couple of things: Firstly a fast let down - my DS would freak at roughly the same time that I felt the let down reflex kick in. I consulted a lactation consultant and she recommended that I block feed for 3 days - basically, rather than switching sides each time you feed, you feed from the same side for a 6 hour period. This would tell your body that it's making too much milk. This had some success.
But I think position is the key. My baby is definitely a spirited type and when I feed sitting down, he's constantly pulling away to look at things and gets frustrated when I try to pull him back round. There were times I have to admit that I was trying to force his mouth on, not a good idea, cos then they get negative associations etc etc. Now, I take him into a my bedroom, pull the blind and feed him lying down and it works a treat. In fact he'll feed lying down even if we're out and about - you have to be a bit more creative as to where you feed when you're out of the house, but I've done it on a sofa in a restaurant, in the park etc.
If you lo is feeding well at night and you do it lying down then, maybe this would work for you?
Best of luck
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Thank you for the suggestion of changing position. I will try feeding him lying down. He ate this morning at 5-5:30am and awake at 7am. I tried to feed him at 8:30am (cried), again at 9:30am (cried) and then again at 10:30am (he ate for 45 minutes, 30 minutes one side, 15 minutes other side.) I gave him his 10:30am feed in his room (blinds pulled, I sat in the same chair I sit in for his night time feeds.) I have tried this before and it has been a hit and miss. I am also going to reduce my dairy intake. I have read that many Mom's do this. I'm not sure if let down is so much of a problem. I have tried to pump before feeding to slow it down and he still cried. Perhaps he just isn't hungry. It has really thrown our EASY routine out of wack. I still get him to take his morning, afternoon and evening nap (not necessarily at the same times due to trying to encourage him to eat. I do still try to have him in bed by 8pm (last night he didn't settle until 9:30.) He was in bed at 8pm, wouldn't eat before or after his bath. He would not settle by 9pm, I fed him with success and he was sleeping by 9:30! He is such a little stinker :) I am trying to go with the flow.
I have not had a diagnosis of reflux, but it is my intinct that it is a problem for him. Although he has had minimal spitting up in the last few days. Some days he doesn't spit up at all, and other days he has to have a few outfit changes because of it. He is now drooling like crazy! I am still wondering about teething, but no pearly whites yet.
I feel conflicted. I want to get him into a schedule but yet I don't feel I am respecting his want to eat. Prior to this starting last week, he was eating every 4 hours without any protest. Now he protests often and will go for up to 6 hours in the daytime between feeds. I do dream feed him also and last night he took 4 oz (he usually only takes 2 oz.) And he was up twice during the night to eat.
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Prior to this starting last week, he was eating every 4 hours without any protest. Now he protests often and will go for up to 6 hours in the daytime between feeds.
Wow, so this all of a sudden started last week? I went back and read your posts again and it is maddening that he just all of a sudden started refusing the breast the way he did. It definitely seems like something is up. I don't think that starting EASY with him would all of a sudden start him protesting. It's not like your trying to feed him when he's not hungry - 6 hours between feeds is a long time. Although....do you think he's trying to drop a daytime feeding and your still trying to give it to him?
Have you checked out the following info about fussy babies at the breast?
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html
I'm not surprised that you say that he feeds well when sleepy. Most babies who are protesting nursing for some reason - even reflux pain - tend to nurse well when sleepy.
Have you checked out this info on reflux to see if your baby might be a candidate? If he truly is, you should do what you can to help him. If he does have reflux it would absolutely explain his current behavior.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=18509.0
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/reflux.html