BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: arial on September 13, 2006, 00:54:14 am
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My son has been eating less and less since he hit the 4 month age. Initially I thought that he was distracted and that would plateau and get better, but this has not been the case. He eats about 24 to 28 oz of milk a day. He used to eat a lot more, between 32 oz to 34 oz.
I am concerned even more so now that my mom has told me that he seems lighter when she carries him. Is it normal for him to be doing this? I was told to start solids 2 weeks ago, but I am afraid of really being agressive with solids until he is drinking more breastmilk. I understand that most of his nutrition still comes from the milk and no the solids. I am trying some cereal though, but it really is very little, no even a teaspoon. Does anybody have any suggestion as to what is happening and how I can get him to eat better?
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Hi Arial...
My son, Mateo, did the same at about the 6-month mark... he was VERY distracted and took less and less milk. I was advised by my Lact. Consultant to feed him in intervals.
So we'd start a BF session, he'd unlatch in like 5 minutes, so we'd take about a 5 minute break, we'd play, change his diaper, etc. then we'd go again. We did this for about a week, and then he sorted himself out.
Could it be teeth that's been bothering your LO?
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My dd did this while bfing as well, they often get distracted at this age by the world around them.
Is there any reason you're starting the solids so early? Starting cereal doesn't have the nutritional value needed, it is only for them to taste and get used to texture. Keep in mind ANY amount of cereal or solids taken in will take away from breast milk taken in (there's only so much room in their tummies!) and cereal sits heavy in the tummy, even if it's only a few spoons. Many times a lo's gut is not ready for digesting the cereal as well. I would seriously consider holding off until he is 6 months old, it would help in his milk consumption.
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Samuels' mom has a FAQ link about holding solids until after 6 months if you want more info. If you are worried about calories- breastmilk has more nutrition/calories than cereal- so push the milk over cereal. Has your doc noted a drop in growth curve line? Is your doc concerned about weight issues? (Just trying to gauge severity). It is very common for LO's to go through phases with distraction, quick feedings, re-invigorated about nursings etc. Although EASY works most of the time, if you are having weight gain/supply issues- then feed on demand/frequent offerings works slightly better. Has the amount of pumping/volumes changed at all?
Found the link. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=68263.0
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My doctor has not seen a decline in the growth curve. Actually we were told he was in 90% for height and weight. Even though the doctor told me that, I know that he had already started to lose weight a few weeks before this last visit with the pediatrician.
I do not even think it is distraction anymore because if it was the case, it should have already corrected itself (I think!). Yesterday, he barely ate 23 oz of breastmilk. I thought this morning he would be hungry since last night he only drank 3 oz for his dreamfeeding, but instead he only drank 2 oz. this morning. I do not know what to do because I have also tried to feed him in intervals. I let him play for 10 minutes and go back with the bottle but he pushes it away. I have give it to him after his short 45 minute naps, and he would drink some but no finish it.
Today, I will have my mother in law not give him anything after nap and see if he is really hungry for his next scheduled meal.
I know that his gums are itching cuz he wants to bite on everything, but I am not sure that this is causing the problem. He is also started to roll over during the night, and I am not even sure if this can cause this too.
I am even wondering if he wants to be fed milk by spoon and no by bottle anymore - this is just a wild thought.
I am just at wits ends. I just do not know how to make him eat more. HEEEELLLLPPPP>>>>
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Hi Arial.
I know what you're going through, as we went through it when he was about 6 months, as I posted previously, and right now, he's 9 months and his formula consumption is dimishing! (I BF 'til 7 months). This past week he's taking about 15-20oz of formula per day. I asked the doc about this, and she said it was fine. He's into solids now, so the doc said as long as he's alert and happy, then there's nothing to worry about. Mateo is also in the high percentiles for weight and height.
I know it's easier said then done, but try to just go with his flow, unless it's a medical concern, in which case you may want to go back to your doc. I still offer the bottles at normal times, and sometimes he takes it, and other times he doesn't. I let him lead the way. My doc said to only worry if they start to become lethargic (sp?), no wet diapers, sunken soft spot. I don't continuously offer food/bottle because I don't want to revert him back to being a snacker. So we stick to meal times, and he eats/drinks as he needs to.
Have you tried a sippy cup? Maybe he'll take milk from a sippy?
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Thanks Nayade. I am glad to hear that Mateo is doing good. I am going to try the sippy cup today. Thanks.
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How did the sippy cup work out?
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No great. I think that his gums are really bothering him. I used some orajel this morning, and ten minutes later, he was able to finish his bottle. I am not sure if he was just hungry or the gums felt better. I will try the cup and the orajel again later today. Thanks for checking on us.
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Yes I have heard that some moms have good luck with the orajel.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
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Thanks again, but I posted something in the health section and apparently orajel is not great for LOs.
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Arial,
I am going through the same thing at the moment. I'm in the process of weaning as well because to be honest I think he eats more from the bottle. He had a heavy cold a couple of weeks ago and there were feed times when I could not get himto take one suck from the breast. Not one. He just arched his back and screamed the place down, no matter how many times I tried. In desperation I pumped and offered the bottle, and he'd usually drink 1 to 2 oz then.
Yesterday's feeds were:
7 am 4 oz
11 am 3 1/2 oz
3pm 4 oz
5.30 pm 5 oz
7 pm 3 oz
11 pm 6 oz
which by my maths comes out at 25 1/2 oz - quite a good day for him! He slept through till 6.30 on this and we started all over again - and he only took 4 oz at breakfast so it looks like we're on the same track.
I started to get worried too - our daily count comes in anywhere between 20 and 30 oz, so I started taking him once a week at the same time of day and weighing him. And, you know, he's still gaining weight. He's always been just above the 50th percentile for weight and above the 95th for height and that has not changed.
Don't listen to other people if they say they think he 'feels' lighter. This is too subjective and will just worry you. Find some baby scales (lots of pharmacies have them) and set yourself a time to do it (maybe 8am every Monday morning or something). Dress him in the same clothes so you don't have to worry about variation and plot his weight gain against the percentile charts (you can print your own off - they're on this website somewhere - if you can't find them check back and I'll try to find you the link).
The other thing is, how many feeds a day is he on? If they're too close together he may not be hungry by the next one. he should be on a 4-hour interval by now (see my schedule above - this works well for me).
As for solids, it's up to you really, if your paediatrician has approved it. Mine did three weeks ago, but I just gave Kieran his first taste of rice cereal this morning. Was waiting for him to get over his cold. Got it spat all over me too!
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Arial, we don't use Orajel because although some moms have great success, it was not recommended by our doc. Instead, we use homeopathic drops called CAMILIA, they're made by Boiron.
Whenever Mateo has a "fussy" day due to teething, we pop out the Camilia and he's better in no time.
They've been my saving grace.
HTH,
Nay
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Nay:
I am not sure that there is Camilia here is the USA, but I will check on it. Thanks for your insights.
Cathbilson:
Thanks for your recommendation. I actually have weighted him (no on same clothes or same time and day of week) and he is lighter by half a pound to one pound. I will certainly love to get a hold of the growth chart so that I can plot him myself in the curve. I will try to love for the chart. Thanks for your great suggestions.
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Ok, I found the link. Look at this post and the website links are there.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63598.0
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Home scales are very tricky. I don't know what kind of scales you are using but if you are very worried I would try and do proper weigh-ins at a doctors under certain conditions. Good luck with plotting on the charts. It's not super-easy.
Just a quick mention - I know others have said this - that if you do have weight concerns rice cereal and solids would not be the recommended route. You are absolutely right with your instinct to be careful on this. Breast milk has a higher calorie content than rice cereal and a much higher amount of grams of fat per oz. (average of 1.15g compared to 0.24 g). It would not be recommended to feel up his little tummy with a substance that could reduce his overall calorie intake in the day. Putting aside all the other reasons why it's recommended people wait until nearer 6 months.
I would also suggest you check wet nappies carefully if you are worried. You are looking for around 6 wet nappies in 24 hours and urine should be pale and with hardly any odour. (Assuming of course you are ebf and not giving any other fluids.)
I wouldn't bother with giving milk with a spoon. Try different speeds of teat and sippy cups (perhaps with valve removed).
Some babies don't exhibit hunger signs as clearly as others so I wouldn't necessarily try and hang out for them. Babies go through phases. Before you know it you'll be on the the next growth spurt and this will all be a memory. Perhaps the milk you pump has a particularly high fat content so that's why he's taking less.
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How long does this period of eating less last? He is almost 5 months and these has been happening for the past 5-6 weeks. He is even not taking much of the dreamfeeding. He is now only totalling 24 oz of breastmilk per day. He does not eat anything else. I cannot even give him the 8 oz of formula that he used to take.
Sorry, I am still to weigh him again. I guess I need to start by doing that,
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Nayade:
He didnt like the sippy cup. I put the cup to rest for now. I will offer it to him soon after he starts on solids more consistently. Thanks for help.
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Hmmm... no sippy huh?
Well, I think you're right on not insisting.
24oz isn't bad though.
Mateo is 9.5 months, and at his last check I let the doc know that he took a max of 20oz of formula per day... and she said that was more than okay. He looks healthy, is active and is wetting his diapers so she said it was all good.
Try...not easy, I know... but just try not to worry.
Actually, forget I said that, I know you will worry because we all do... *sigh*
Can you try to mix the formula/BM in with his food?
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Nayade:
But doesn't Mateo eat quite a bit of solids? My LO does not even eat1 teaspoon of cereal. I have resisted advancing solids until he drinks his breastmilk much better. For whatever reason, I am still thinking that he is not drinking very much.
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Yes, you're right, Mateo does eat a good amount of solids.
And you're LO is just 4 months old, so yes, I would think that you'd want to hold off on offering more solids until the milk consumption is back to it's old self.
Hmmm... this is a stumper. Are you thinking that you're not producing enough milk for him? Because there are ways to increase your milk supply.
Or is it just that he won't latch on and stay on?
I'll have to think about this some more. Hopefully someone else will have some more advice/help for you!!
Big HUGS your way!
Nay.
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Thanks Nay for your help. Now I think you understand my concern. Well, we will keep trying. Any suggestions, just let me know.
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Hi Arial,
I know you feel worried but try to relax. Is your lo happy and alert? If so, try to relax while you try to sort this feeding out. I agree with the others on the scales, unless you weigh a lo at the same time in the day, wearing nothing, on the same scale, you can't get a 100% acurate read. I always say some days my dd feels heavy, some light, and it often depends on if she's had a diaper!
I have a few questions for you...
1) Is your ds on EBM bottles fully or do you bf any of his feeds? If you bf any feeds he may be "protesting" the bottle, as well, you can't measure the bf, so are you sure of the quantity he's taking?
2) Have you eliminated all tastes of solids, even the tiny amount of cereal? At this age, I would until the milk is increased, even the smallest amount.
3) Is your MIL taking care of him in the day while you are not there? (you mentioned your MIL, so I thought I'd ask) If she is, are you sure she's not giving any solids or formula without you knowing? I only ask because if I put myself in that situation back when my dd was younger I think my mom would be sneak-feeding solids, she used to push it as she didn't agree with me waiting 6 mths (her generation gave it at 10 weeks!), she also doesn't understand the benefits of bfing (again, a generation thing, her doc told her she couldn't because we were twins ::))
4) Is he given any other liquids at all (even water)? Any additional liquid could fill the tummy, limiting the amount of milk accepted.
If he is only taking the bottles of EBM and you are sure of the quantity have you thought about switching the bottle you are using? Trying one with a larger opening? I don't know much about bottles but I've read about people trying different ones until their los like one.
Again, try to not worry too much. Count his diapers, as pp mentioned. Whenever I used to worry about my dd not taking enough because I couldn't measure I would count her wet diapers (look for 6 full urine ones) and that would help me to relax and realise she was feeding fine.
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Thanks Marian:
I am only giving my LO expressed breastmilk and nothing has really changed except the fact that he is eating less for the past 5-6 weeks. We introduced rice cereal 4 weeks ago, but he was already eating poorly before then. I was told to start solids by pediatrician, so I only tried him on minimum amount of cereal- he didnt even get 1/4 of teaspoon. I just wanted to see his reaction initially. Now he is taking a bit more, but it is not even a teaspoon. Now, one thing, I have to mention is that cereal is really no new to him. I had put the same cereal in his bottle when he was 2 months old - this was also recommended by a GI specialist that we saw then because of reflux.
I understand what you are telling me. I actually agree with everything you said and that is why I am so hesitant about increasing the amount of cereal, starting him on more solids or giving him other fluids besides breastmilk. I know for a fact that my MIL has not been giving him anything but breastmilk - I have a great MIL and she only feeds him what I am telling her. Now - my mom is like your MIL (my mom will start taking care of LO since this Monday)
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Does he seem frustrated or fussy? Have you tried changing the type of bottle? If you have and it doesn't make a difference and he's really fussy and doesn't sleep well I would try to cut out irritants in your diet, perhaps cut back on milk products.
If he's happy, sleeps well, is alert, and has 6 good wet diapers with no colour I wouldn't worry. Wet diaper output is a good sign that he's getting enough.
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I stopped counting diapers once I started pumping my milk. He does not seem fussy at all, he just does not want the bottle, after a few oz he just pushes it away. I offer it to him 5 to 15 minutes later and sometime he drinks it. Other times, I offer it to him after a short nap and when it is not too close to his next bottle, and sometimes he drinks it.
He is actually doing well otherwise. The only thing really new was my MIL and him rolling over recently. He got along great with MIL and as a matter of fact, it did not matter who fed him. He still refused to completely drink the bottle even if it was me feeding him.
I am going to start counting diapers. Good idea!!!
You know what really concerns me is the amount of volume he drinks a day. He has 23.5 oz to 24oz (sometimes even 22 oz) per day. That is the same amount a newborn would eat if he drank 3 oz and had 8 meals a day. I cannot undestand how a 5 month can eat so little and get by. Last night he only had 2-3oz of milk for dreamfeeding. I would guess he would drink his morning bottle desperately, but that is not the case. He drank it slowly, no very interested in it, and left 1 1/2 oz.
What a problem!!