BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: DavidsMum on June 11, 2007, 06:12:47 am
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I am not sure what is going on with my 9 mo DS.
Our sleep and routine got all messed up whilst he was sick and Peike has helped me get him back to independant sleeping and I am trying o get him into some routine.
0630 - wake (not my ideal but he seems to like it)
0900 - nap 1
1300 - nap 2
1830 - bed (seems to work best for him)
I can not get him to take a catnap any more no matter how hard I try and how long it has been since his nap, once he has had the 2 that is it until bedtime. Hence I am trying o stick to the 9 and 1300 nap times.
During sickness we had many NW, first because he was sick and then because he was in the habit of cuddling to sleep. We fixed that but now he is waking again. He puts himself back to sleep but wakes 45mins later, takes a little longer to get back to sleep then wakes another 45mins later and so on. Somewhere between 4 and 530am he decides he has had enough and tries hard but fails to get back to sleep and cries out.
Also he has a really wet nappy. This is odd as from very early on I noticed he would always wake in the morning with a dry nappy. I don't know if the wet nappy is waking him or the NW is then resulting in a wet nappy.
Last night he woke at 1am (I actualy got up and changed him in the hope that it was the nappy waking him and that he would then sleep through). He was asleep by 130 but then I hearfd him at 3 and 4. And I am not sure he actually got back to sleep after 4 although he tried. by 5 he was really awake so I tried BF andthen back in cot, but although he tried he could not get back to sleep. Eventually I got him to sleep at 615 and he woke at 7.
Then I tried to settle him at 9, he finally slept at 915 but woke at 935. I tried PUPD (which is working now thanks Pieke) and he slept another 15mins and then we just could not get any more sleep and I had to take him to the doctor anyway.
I then put him down at 1245 (I know I said I was sticking to 1300 but he was so tired and it took until 1300 for him to sleep). He woke at 45mins, PUPD and still asleep 20mins later.
I also should add he has been on prednisolone the last week (it didn't help his croup and so the doctor has stopped it). Also he is just starting to crawl on all fours.
So is the NW due to wet nappy, overtiredness as he is not sleeping well at night or day, the meds or the crawling???
I was going to give up on this sticking to routine but DH (who hasn't been overly supporive in the past) stated that he could see an improvement and that I should stick to it for the full 2 weeks like I had planned.
I think he was particulalry impressed that he did PUPD the other night and had such success (1 PU and back to sleep!). ;D
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. ???
I know this is a long post but I figured it was best to cover as much as possible. :-*
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So is the NW due to wet nappy, overtiredness as he is not sleeping well at night or day, the meds or the crawling???
Babies cannot control their bladder so they will urinate regardless of wether they are asleep or not. I don't thing the frequent nightwakings are making him urinate more. If you are finding though that his nappy is very wet in the morning, then try to limit drinks before bedtime. Of course he might have the bottle before bed but I usually stop water intake around 5.30-6pm.
Overtiredness from not sleeping well during the day/night & crawling, I would say contribute more towards the nightwaking. I am not very familiar with the meds... did you notice his sleep changing when he was on meds? I would talk to the doc about that....
Taking a catnap at 9 months didn't work for us either, so I would start with giving him an earlier beditme. Try 6pm if he's taking a short morning & pm nap. I think he may also need a little more A time during the day. He should be able to handle 3hrs in the morning & pm, so you'd have naps at 9:30-10.30am & 1.30/2pm-3/3.30pm and bedtime 6.30/7pm.
I was going to give up on this sticking to routine but DH (who hasn't been overly supporive in the past) stated that he could see an improvement and that I should stick to it for the full 2 weeks like I had planned
I am all for routine. I think babies thrive on it and I wouln't completely throw the towel in, lol. Try things out and I usually give it about 3-4 days & then reassess what I've done and if it has worked. I am a big plan person so I write things down when something goes sour and go from there.
I would continue with pu/pd to extend naps and for nightwakings. It could also be that he is going through regression (if pu/pd was something recent).
He puts himself back to sleep but wakes 45mins later, takes a little longer to get back to sleep then wakes another 45mins later and so on. Somewhere between 4 and 530am he decides he has had enough and tries hard but fails to get back to sleep and cries out.
Waking up every 45mins is normal as he is waking between cycles but having a "hard" time falling back asleep does sound like he is overtired. I would aim for him to be asleep by 6.30pm (if not 6pm) for a few days so that he catches up on some sleep and then start stretching his naps during the day.
When he wakes in between naps, do you attend to him regardless of wether he is crying or not (and do pu/pd) or do you leave him to see if he will fall asleep on his own?
Milestones can certainly have an effect on naps & there is not much you can do there but let him have his practise. The novelty of being able to crawl will wear off soon...
Layla :-*
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What dose of prednisolone did he take and at what times?
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Thanks for replying ladies.
I managed a 15 min catnap 1645-1705 today so will see if that makes a difference.
At night he is left to it unless he really gets upset. During the day he is waking up and yelling straight away. That is how i know he is needing more sleep, it is a different wake up to when he has had enough sleep. I leave him a little but I can pretty much tell by the way he wakes whether he will be needing me or not.
The prednisolone he was taking 2mL after dinner for 5 nights then as that didn't work we had 2 days of 2mL morning and night. I know when I was on this as a teenager it made me wake at night and very hungry during the day. Oh yeah and pee more often.
It has been 6 days of trying to stick to this routine, but he was overtired to begin with.
I will try an earlier bedtime tomorrow. I doubt I'll manage more A time in the morning until he gets better sleep at night, he is just too tired as it is.
It is now 8pm and he is already doing first NW.
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Hi there, sorry you are struggling!!!
yep, unfortunately as great as steroids can work when given in the right dose and for the right ailments, it has the lovely side effects as you have mentioned above on top of the rest. That is why i asked what time of the day, as we generally prescribe it as a once daily in the morning dose. Is he off the meds yet?
I agree with Layla that due to the preceding days' events, he is probably well overtired by now. The issue is probably also that when he starts taking decent naps again, i am sure he is hitting the age of dropping his catnap.
Sorry not able to help much, except confirm that the steroids probably not helping your nights at the moment. Can take upto a week to wash out of the system too, so bear in mind when you stop the meds. BTW, does he have asthma? or did I read croup somewhere?
I will try an earlier bedtime tomorrow. I doubt I'll manage more A time in the morning until he gets better sleep at night, he is just too tired as it is.
absolutely!! good luck with that!!!
xx
DI
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Thanks Di I feel better that you acknowledge these side effects, our GP just said that the steroids wouldn't have been responsible for any of that. Yes it is croup, but his sinuses have been congested for about 6 weeks now. And the peadiatrician is sure he will have asthma as he has eczma and dairy allergies and a family history. :(
We had a better night last night, now he is off the prednisolone I gave him some antihistamine and decongestant before bed then he needed a top up at 1240am and didn't call out again until 6am. I think he may have woken at around 430 briefly but to be honest the nights are getting blurred and mixed into my dreams so who knows.
Oh yeah and his nappy was dry this morning!!
He was yawning at 830 but I pushed him to 9. I think it was one of Layla's posts I read that said to really stimulate them in the morning and push the nap back as far as possible so I gave that a try.
We are off for some allergy testing after this nap, maybe something external is aggravating his sinuses?
I'll let you know what this next 24 hours brings us in an update tomorrow.
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I am glad he slept till 6am.
Di, thats interesting about steroids. I was going to Google it last night just after I posted but Dh got impatient and wanted us to start watching "heroes" (& for the 2nd time ever he made me dinner as well, lol).
Will be waiting for the update
Layla :-*
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Great news, and good luck, davidsmum, keep us posted! good luck also with all the allergy tests! hopefully the steroids have helped a bit with the sinus probs!
Layla, hubby has been taping ALL the Heores programmes, as he likes that genre. don't know if he has managed to watch any of them as yet!!! Do you enjoy it?
Hope you get some sleep tonight!!
xx
DI
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Layla, hubby has been taping ALL the Heores programmes, as he likes that genre. don't know if he has managed to watch any of them as yet!!! Do you enjoy it?
Its not too bad. I liked it at the start but towards the end i kinda lost interest :-\. He loves it though... I just can't see it going beyond another season, but then again, I didn't think "Lost" was going anywhere either and apparently its really good. I can't wait for october cause thats when we buy "House" from the US and I watch that one after another. Also for the past 2 months, I've been watching "24". Now that was GOOD!!!!
Anyways, off the topic here ::)
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but then again, I didn't think "Lost" was going anywhere either and apparently its really good.
Apparently?? APPARENTLY?? It's only the best show that's been on TV in years!!!
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but then again, I didn't think "Lost" was going anywhere either and apparently its really good.
Apparently?? APPARENTLY?? It's only the best show that's been on TV in years!!!
LOL Jess, still haven't seen an episode.... maybe I should start ::)
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Um YES!!!!
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So I wasn't going to update today as I am feeling so fed up with it all...and besides you have terrible TV habits...except House, he is cool but our programmers give us a new episode every fortnight and make us watch repeats in the alternate weeks...what is with that?.
Anyway morning naps seem to be going well, today and yesterday both an hour long.
But arvo nap is a whole other thing. Lots of protesting and then 30mins yesterday PUPD another 30mins and that was it.
Just finally got him off after 45mins of protesting today so I don't know how long that will last.
Last night in bed at 610 then awake at 305...very loud trying to get back to sleep noises then crying at 325. Super wet nappy changed then took 30mins to calm down to getting to sleep but never quite made it as he was fussing at 355 and crying again at 425.
I decided he was probably too cold...I know I was still trying to warm up after the first round...so another layer of clothing and cuddles to warm with body heat. He fell asleep during cuddles...I know its a prop...probably asleep by 440 then awake at 555 (I think) I got up for him at 630 but I am sure I heard him earlier. Held off the BF to 650 though so hopefully that will help tomorrow morning.
So I am hoping it was just the cold, I already had him slightly overdressed to what the grobag guidelines suggest, but tonight I will go an extra layer.
But what about the arvo naps ??? Any thoughts?
I thought yesterday may have been as he didn't get to do much as he was in the car or at the allergy clinic pretty much the whole time. Today we went to the pool but then I guess it was a reasonable car ride home again. Or maybe once he starts catching up on sleep he realises how tired he is.
If he doesn't sleep well this arvo then I'll go early bed again tonight I guess.
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Now I am desperate.
Our 430 NW turned into a 430 EW today!!
I am going to give you every detail as maybe I am missing something that you will pick up on ???
Yesterday arvo nap was just over an hour....so more day sleep than any other day this past week.
I was planning on a 6pm bedtime but DH came home after 2 nights in Canberra and DS was so excited to see him it made the evening process a little slower than usual. So bed was 627 with 15mins of dadadad to get to sleep.
Then the NW:
420 – very loud mm mmm mm trying to get back to sleep noises – phantom cries – more mm mmm mm noises
435 – yelling for mum who takes her time and goes to the loo first just to ensure she is not rushing in. Now this is all in the dark – no night light is turned on as it stimulates him – so he can not see me only hear and feel me – and me him. Oh and he should not be cold as it was 19C in there and he was dressed very warmly and in grobag.
Quick cuddle then on back for nappy change – screaming – crying and carrying on all through nappy change – which was super wet.
Quick cuddle – tries to burrow in so can be cuddled to sleep (this is what we did when he was sick). As soon as put down starts screaming. Reassuring hand turns into play thing and then wants to hold to go to sleep. As soon as he calms down I remove my hand (don’t want this becoming a prop) he rolls over and starts to go to sleep. It sounds like he is asleep – I have no concept of time if I am in his room but just when I think he is asleep he starts fussing, rolling around, phantom cries, then yelling again. I try shhh shh but that just makes him louder.
Another quick cuddle – again tries to burrow in for sleep – so I know he is not hungry or in pain – just being a pain. Back in cot and screaming. Go through the same as above and then just as I am sure he is asleep starts fussing again.
522 – Screaming. I will not pick him up again as it just makes it worse as he wants cuddles to sleep. I just stay there reassuring and rest hand on him. This is full on only stop to catch our breath screaming.
600 – still screaming when DH’s alarm goes off. DH stays in bed as long as possible as he knows I am trying to settle DS.
630 – too many lights, bathroom noises etc. = up for the day.
Wasn’t sure when to put him down again but we only made it to 830....who knows how long this sleep will last.
I am wondering if it is a carry over from the cuddles to sleep whilst sick. Once he was better he was waking several times during the night and wanting cuddles back to sleep, I basically did the CIO whilst mum reassures thing and he slept through after 2 nights of that.
What do you think / suggest?
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He slept for 45mins and I tried to get him back to sleep for an hour.
I feel like by giving in again I am reinforcing that if he fights long enough he'll get what he wants.
He is sooooooo tired now he doesn't want to do anything.
I did work out what he is doing at night when I think he is going to sleep.....he lies there with his eyes open for up to 15mins and as they slowly start drooping and I think YES he then springs wide awake and wants to play.
I really don't know where to take it from here....I do not understand why after 9 months he has decided not to be a sleeper anymore......I feel like we are stuck in this perpetuating cycle where he is so tired he can not sleep and then he just gets more tired.......I am desperate for some sleep :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I am not ignoring you. Just going to put the girls to sleep and then will come back to tell you what I think (I promise).
Hang in there! :-*
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Sounds like you had a rough night :(. He definitely sounds overtired and I would do a 6pm bedtime for a few days to help him catch up. Also if he's had a 45min nap for the pm and you can't extend it, try for a catnap at around 4ish. Because he's had such a short nap, he should take a 45min catnap to tie him over till bedtime. What time have you been putting him down for the pm nap? When you put him down for a nap, is he standing up and crying so you do pu/pd or just playing around for 30mins.
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fortunately he can not stand up yet, he just rolls around and then after about 20 mins starts crying and it escalates from there, or somedays it is crying from the get go.
PUPD doesn't always work as he thinks he is getting a cuddle then bam back in the cot. I will pick him up twice but after that he stays in the cot.....he is the kind of bub that the more you fuss the less likely he will go to sleep.
pm nap is trying to be at 1300. So yesterday he woke from am at 915....back in cot at 1300.....not asleep until 1345.
I am wondering if the fact that he is always overtired when he goes down so he pretty much crashes may be a factor...so he isn't really learning how to put himself to sleep as he just passes out....then when he isn't overtired he doesn't remember how to go to sleep?
I have no idea what I am doing anymore....it has been a week with these set nap times and it is obviously not working...maybe I'll go back to the old nap 2.5 hours after you wake and have no actual consistency in our days???
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Ok, so lets start from the morning nap. If it ended at 9:15, then the pm nap should be 3hrs later so more like 12.15/12.30pm & then I would have done a catnap at 4.30/5pm. He was probably OT by the time he was put down for pm nap.
Are you able to do an earlier bedtime to start with so that he is better refreshed in the morning & you are able to stretch him in the morning till 9am.
If picking him up makes things worse, then I would just do pd. So if he's fussing, playing, mantra crying, etc... leave him and if he really needs you, then go in, reassure him with your words until he settles and leave. If he is on all fours, pd and stay with him until he settles and then leave.
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Sorry I got that wrong...he woke from am at 1015. Back in bed at 1 but asleep at 145 then up at 255 and back down at 630.
I was sure you had got good sleep yesterday and would sleep through.
This arvo he did 1h15m and then I got a 45 catnap at 4pm so we are aiming for 630 bed at latest.
He seems a little more rested this evening....but I thought that yesterday too. ::)
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Its ok, it takes a little while to get over the whole OT state. I am glad you got a catnap in. I would do that if you can until at least his pm nap lengthens. I hope tonight is better for you. Its freezing here (i'm in Victoria) so I understand what you mean about the weather.
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Something has backfired on me.
Got him down at 625 but now 700 and he is still awake...oops just started screaming.
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Have you ever come across this before Layla?
He will go down and then 20 mins later (so I assume he hasn't been asleep ..just trying) he starts fussing and crying.
Then I go in and pick him up and he instantly falls asleep in my arms...I mean instant.
It is not the first time this has happened. It is as though he just can't quite get to that final sleep stage on his own. What do you think that is all about...overtired, undertired???
I am not sure what to make of last night. He was making the loud noises at 340...then calling out at 400 but overtired mum ignored him and next she knew she was waking up and realising he was quiet 435...then I know he woke up again sometime after 5 (I checked the clock but do not remember what it was) but again I was sooo tired..... then at 6am he was really calling out and ready to get up. Very wet nappy again.
He wasn't hungry as he didn't ask for BF until 655....even watched DH have breakfast without demanding his own....unheard of.
He seemed a lot happier today as well, lots of giggles and smiles so hopefully he is catching up on sleep.
I assume he slept some more between 340 and 6am....when I asked DH if he thought he'd gone back to sleep at all he replied "I thought this was the first time he'd woken"......oh to be the daddy one.
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What a crap day...he will not sleep.>:(
Put him down for his 9am nap...a bit of babbling then quiet...I assumed he'd gone to sleep and then 925 screaming....I guess he had done the "be quiet for a bit" trick.
I tried everything to get him to sleep and then at 11am I gave up.
He is so tired, uncoordinated, rubbing his eyes, yawning, pulling his hair but definitely not sleeping.
I don't think he'll ever be getting a baby brother if he continues like this. ::)
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Ok, lets start from the beginning. Did you used to hold him to sleep? How long and when did you stop?
He might be going through regression when you started sleep training. So something that happened today.... when you say you tried everything to get him to sleep, what did you try? Trying too many things can be quiet confusing. So if you are doing pu/pd for 15mins and then holding hands for the other 15 and then holding him and rocking for the next 15, thats too much handling and really confusing to him (not saying thats what you are doing but just giving an example).
When he wakes in the morning, go on about your day until nap time routine. Do your windown and in the cot. LEAVE him... let him talk, sing, mantra cry, whatever he wants to do for up to an hour. If he's crying then go in and do pu/pd. Give him up to 1hr to get to sleep. If he's NOT falling asleep, forget the nap and try for the pm nap (but earlier to avoid overtiredness & protect the schedule - so 11.30am). Again, put him down & leave. Give him an hour to fall alseep. If he's starting to cry & needs you, do pu/pd until the nap duration is over (let this be 1.5hrs for the pm nap). If he's fallen asleep & only sleeps a short time, then try for a catnap OR earlier bedtime.
I don't think he'll ever be getting a baby brother if he continues like this.
Lol, or a baby sister ;D ;)
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When he was ill last month I held him to sleep if he had trouble....but more so I used it to extend his naps and when he woke at night. He had so much fluid in his throat and blocked nose so the elevation helped him sleep better. This was for about 2 weeks and stopped 2 - 3 weeks ago...not really sure...
This morning we did the usual routine, play with mum and DH until 7, 7 =BF, 730=play on floor and talk to dog whilst mum has shower, 8=breakfast 2x weetbix, then more quiet play on floor "twinkle twinkle little star" that kind of stuff. 845 = change and into grobag, goodnight to the magnet on the fridge, goodnight to the frontdoor and cuddles on way to bed.....mum needs 2 yawns to know he is ready...into bed 855 and snuggles down
I came out and posted to you and then 925 = screaming. I went in and he was all smiles and giggles as soon as he saw me. If I left the room screaming recommenced, but when I am in there he just wants to play. If i try to put my hand on him as reassurance he just wants to play with my fingers and suck on them. He didn't even try and put his head down. Then by 10 he was getting upset so pupd then at 1030 I was desperate so tried holding him to sleep but still awake at 11.
It is lovely outside so after BF we went outside and ate some leaves and watched the posties drive by.
Then 12pm lunch and in bed at 1220 today. He carried on a bit but has gone quiet so maybe he is asleep?
The catnap could be my undoing, as he downright refuses a 3rd nap I have to rock or cuddle him to sleep...and it doesn't always work anymore.
I don't think he'll ever be getting a baby brother if he continues like this.
Lol, or a baby sister ;D ;)
Oh no I know what my sister and I were like as teenagers so I already ruled out a baby sister ;D ;D :D
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After 9 months, I think J stopped refusing as catch up around 9 months as well and if she took it, her nights were a bit funny.... so I would say if he's not having the catnap, then do 6pm bedtime.
I am just wondering... there's a wi/wo method for toddlers & I think I might have seen somewhere here a baby version. I'm just going to double check with the mods to see where I can find the link and if infact it can be used for a lo of 9 months old.
Because it seems to me like he wants to play when he sees you... so I think maybe wi/wo might be better.
I hope he has a nice long sleep in the afternoon. Poor bub must be so tired
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After watching him trying to sleep this arvo I realise the problem is he is totally OT.
So I think I need to abandon the current plan and get him some sleep....at all costs....not sure how to do that without AP
:-\
But I realise things are never going to improve whilst he is OT and I doubt going to bed 30mins earlier is going to fix this, it may help but if you think all he has had today is 45mins sleep and 15min catnap and was OT to begin with.
I have no idea what to do ??? How on earth did we get to this point? :o
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I am sorry things are so tough at the moment. I am not sure what to say :-\ . If you rock/hold him to sleep now & say he catches up on sleep, then he'll have to be sleep trained at some stage and will still hit an overtired zone. I know 30mins earlier bedtime doesn't seem like it will help but it did in my case thats why I suggest it. To be honest, I used to put J to sleep as early as 5.30pm when she was extremely overtired (which has happened a few times with the time change and transition to 1 nap). There were plenty of days she would sleep only 45mins in the morning & pm & used to go to sleep for the night extremely early.
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So I think I need to abandon the current plan and get him some sleep....at all costs....not sure how to do that without AP
:-\
I can say I've done this several times with dd...she is very spirited and the more tired she is, the less likely I can get her to sleep at ANY cost! Just know that in the future you will have to undo whatever you have done to catch up on sleep. Sometimes it was also a salve for MY sanity, to get her caught up on sleep and to regroup and catch my breath.
At 9 months pu can be dropped and do just pd, especially if he is wanting to be picked up. I did a combo pd and wi/wo at that age and sh didn't necessarily have SA, I was just teaching independent sleep. Since she was so mobile and aware at this age, I wanted her used to me not being in the room, so I'd pd, do a little back rub then walk out. If she sat up and cried out I'd go back in and repeat. I'd try not to leave unless she was calm. If that makes sense. Not sure if it would work at this point as it sounds like he is pretty freaked out about going in the crib. Have you read about the gradual removal plan yet? Might be a try after you get him caught up on sleep.
As for the catnap, most babies won't take one when they are done with that stage, which is usually around 6 months. I agree with Layla to save your sanity a tad and not try to worry about a catnap but work on an early bedtime.
And I may be going out on a limb here, so feel free to smack me around a bit ;D, but have you thought of being UNDERtired? My dd does exactly the same things if she is undertired as if she is overtired. AND she has more night wakings, go figure. I just know the few times I was pulling my hair out trying to force her to sleep and not being able to figure out why we couldn't get on top of the OTness, we tried the opposite direction and lo and behold she was just needing her day stretched out a tad more.
Also, call me crazy but what is his eating routine? Believe it or not a lot of sleeping issues stem from eating issues as well. Just wanting to cover all the bases.
AND...dang I just typed that and heard dd wake and there went my thought. Darn Mommy brain. If I think of it I'll come back.
Maybe if you can post a super detailed routine of what the past day looked like? Include eating, amounts of food, wind-down routines, night wakings, etc etc.
And dang I'm headed off for the weekend. I'm so so sorry I jumped in late. I KNOW you can do this!! You're doing so well just keeping it together as it is! HUGS to you!
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Hi Kat and Layla
How was your weekend? Things got a little crazy here with OT mum in tears every three seconds (that is so not me) but I am feeling more positive today. And we had some beautiful winter sunshine to play in yesterday.....I hear it is snowing on your side of the country Layla.
I seem to have trouble with the quotes but Kat asked about feeding and routines:
Here is what I am trying to stick to
700 BF
800 Breakfast
900 Nap1
1100 BF
1200 Lunch
1300 Nap2
1500 BF
1700 Dinner
1800 bath, BF
1830 In bed
This is what yesterday looked like - he took a cat nap the evening before and was in bed at 630 but took 20mins to get to sleep.
0520 - awake
0550 - call out for mum (ignored)
0610 - call out for mum (ignored)
0615 - crying - mum gets up
0650 - BF
0750 - breakfast - 1 x weetbix and 1 x banana
0845 - nap1 (really wouldn't last any longer)
0855 - asleep
0920 - screaming - mum resettled quite easily
0944 - awake and up
1030 - BF
1130 - Lunch steamed veges and lentils and 1 x cooked apple
1240 - in bed
1300 - asleep
1338 - screaming and would not resettle
1430 - BF
1600 - tried for catnap but really protested
1640 - dinner - roast chicken and veges, rockmelon, still hungry so had an apple, still hungry so had a weetbix
1730 - bath, BF, book and in bed at 1805
0505 - awake and could not resettle
0530 - nappy change and PUPD (he just rolls around in the cot after one PD - tried to go to sleep at one point with head down and thumb sucking)
0600 - DH's alarm sounds
0610 - give in and up
0625 - BF
0700 - breakfast - didn't even eat a whole weetbix
0720 -back in cot as he was grizzly and wouldn't play on the mat and just so tired.
0730 - asleep
He doesn't have a fear of the cot at all, except for the 4pm catnap attempt each time I put him down he didn't more than grizzle at most.
He is definitely not undertired....I can tell by the way he wakes up if he is rested or not.
He still makes very loud noises during the night but I don't think he is fully waking, he is just sleeping very lightly and so every 45mins he is needing to re-soothe himself.....so I guess the problem is no longer NW but more EW and nap issues.
Should I have put him to bed so early this morning or should I stick with the 9am plan???
DH was adamant that I should stick with 9am but it has been 12 days and that does not seem to be working for us. I just figured if I put him down before he was totally overtired he may actually sleep longer, as opposed to keeping him up 4 hours to 9am.
I would love your thoughts on this....stick with 9am or EW = earlier nap?
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If he's awake really early, I would do a nap no earlier than 8.30am, only because an earlier nap can reenforce earlier wake ups. I don't think the catnap is going to work anymore. He's probably outgrown it so I would keep the early bedtime instead (honestly, if you have to put him to bed fro the night at 5.30pm if he's only had 40mins in the pm & won't take the catnap). At least he will have a full 11.5-12hrs of sleep at night (even if he wakes at 5in the morning). The pm nap is the one that really needs extending. Have you ever tried w2s to extend the nap? I know its for habitual wakings but it has helped me in the past to get her over the 40min cycle. I used to walk in at 30mins & stir her a little (move her blanket or something) & she would usually sleep for at least an hour
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An earlier nap can reenforce earlier wake ups
I read this somewhere the other day.
I am confused as to what to do to try not to reinforce the EW. If he does not go back to sleep what should I do....just try to stretch the day out to fit into the rest of the schedule???
Should I be ignoring his sleep cues at this age and trying to go by the clock?
Should I just be sticking straight to my schedule and in time he will just start sleeping again???
I really have no idea what I am doing anymore.::)
Today we had 4 x 45min catnaps so we will see how the night goes...although I think he may be coming down with something he was extremely out of sorts all day.
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I really have no idea what I am doing anymore.::)
Sure you do, you are coming to BW and getting lots of love and support. ;D
I know a few Mommas that have had success with getting their LO on a SOLID routine WITH the early mornings (so 5:30am-5:30pm), getting past the OT, and then gradually moving the day back 15 mins at a time or so until you get closer to 7-7.
It is often very very hard for an OT bub to fall back asleep in the wee hours of the morning because they've had some good sleep during the night.
I would say do a combo of cues and clock - look for his cues for when he looks like he could be ready for a nap, then stretch him maybe 5-10mins more. I agree that an early nap can reinforce the EW so it's a fine line to walk, especially when he's overtired - do you go by what he's looking like or push him a bit more? My gut is to get him caught up a bit more then work on pushing him if that makes sense. Go with the EWs for a few days and really try to get him some solid sleep and then start pushing him more toward your routine.
Is he spirited? I know with my dd that OT is possibly the worse thing for her and her spirited-ness, which is why I kind of take the stance of "Do whatever it takes to get that sleep tank refilled and then start doing the major work." It's not always the popular view here but that's what's worked best for us and our spirited dd.
Also, do you have his room blackened out? Sorry if you already mentioned this but it's late here and I haven't gone back to reread - dd also did EWs until we blackened out her room and it really helped.
As far as feeding, he is getting to the age where you can drop down to 3 BFs, BUT that is a totally separate issue and probably not related. His eating is looking rather decent.
HTH!
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Kat, sorry to ask here, but how was DD's B'day? I never saw a post - or remember seeing a post *blush* about it!!
DavidsMum, So sorry about you feeling so deflated. It is a tough situation, but one day you will just see that things have improved. Really. I know Henry is younger than David, but we had overtired and sleep issues too, and one day I just realised things had fallen into place. GOOD LUCK!!! And many many HUGS!
xx
DI
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I know a few Mommas that have had success with getting their LO on a SOLID routine WITH the early mornings (so 5:30am-5:30pm), getting past the OT, and then gradually moving the day back 15 mins at a time or so until you get closer to 7-7.
I am just so worried that we will get stuck on 530 and never make it to 7 again....we got stuck on 630 after the change back from daylight savings....before that we had a lovely 730-730 routine :)
Is he spirited?
To be honest he came up with equal answers in the quiz except for grumpy. I would say he is touchy/spirited.
But sleep has always been spirited...we held him down when he was very little and if I ever missed his cues life was hell for the rest of the day....when he was 4 mths I had 2 days in a row where his sleep was interrupted due to appointments and it took 3 weeks to recover from that!!
Also, do you have his room blackened out?
At 530am it is still dark in there, so much so I can not see him.
But during the day it is not possible to blacken out due to the lay out of the house.
I felt like I was making progress today as it was a little harder for him to fall asleep each nap...which I took as a sign that he was catching up on sleep and becoming aware that he is OT....but it may have backfired as I put him to bed at 6 and it is now 630 and he is really struggling.
I am thinking of starting the 2 to 1 now so I can get all of the misery out of the way in one go ;)
I am not looking forward to that transition...at least I know you and Layla and BW will be there for me ;D :-*
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HI DI...I only did a separate post for our trip we took the next week: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=92719.msg873137#msg873137 I think her actual b-day pics I posted on our birth board. I think. Some mummy I am, eh? ;D
David's Mom, yes spirited ones are HELL when OT, especially if he has some touchy in there as well! If it's any consolation, we are doing the 2-1 now and it is going amazingly smoothly, although I am DEFINITELY holding my breath, LOL!
You might get stuck on the 0530-1730 routine for a bit but once he is well rested you will find it easier to slowly push. The best advice I can give is that once I was pushing, she would handle it ok until the 3rd day and then we had to go back to her old times for one day to let her catch up then could commence pushing again the next day, like 3steps forward, 1 step back.
So at 6am or later when he starts his cry (and you are not ignoring him at that point) is it getting lighter? If you don't mind me asking what is the layout so you can't darken it?
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I just wanted to say that when the clocks changed in March 24, I started pushing for a later bedtime (rather than starting with the morning) & for 2 weeks straight, I was insisting on 1hr later, in the hope that she would wake later & I could start with the morning nap then & 2 weeks later, we hit a major OT zone. Her naps shortened dramatically, she was waking at night & I was resorting to feeding her at 5am so that she would get back to sleep :-[. It was awful & after 2 weeks, I asked for help from one of the BW's (Kathrynk). Anyways, I took a step back and put her on the old routine - which meant a 5.30pm bedtime. Within a week, she was doing 12hr nights again & then it took me another 2 weeks to be able to start stretching her naps. FINALLY (& this only happenned recenlty) she has been waking up close to 6-6.30am (with an occasional 5:30am). It took me about 2 months of going back & forth.
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EW, Layla! Sounds rough! But I feel like it supports my biggest gut reaction to get the OT nipped first, then start working things out again...what do you think?
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Kat, its the worst feeling ever... looking at the clock at 5am, waiting for her to start moaning. I used to pray everynight for a 6am wake up. Its such a killer to wake up so early and as Kathryn said to me, not a good way to start the day. I agree on the earlier bedtime. I always thought an earlier bedtime gets rid of OT. Its hard to get the concept though & I myself thought... I don't want to go backwards!!! I just want to go back to 6.30-7am start.,... which we still haven;t done. Its usually 6ish, sometimes 6.30 & occasionally 5.30-6. But Isabella has alot to do with it as well. If one doesn't wake up early, its the other ::). Anyways, I wanted to thank you on responding as well. David's mum - YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!! :-*
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I have to confess any spells where we had 5am wakeups I treated it like a night feed and put her back down, she did well with going back to sleep but man it messed up the rest of her day's routine with her eating being way off. I didn't care, I just wanted sleep, LOL!
Hey I just noticed (sorry David'sMum for straying) - how come you're not on our birth board? Didn't I already ask you this once? Sorry if I did. :)
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Well I was for about a day but OMG you ladies can talk so much and it was so hard to catch up.... so I gave up :-[. & I only get so much on the computer with the 2los (theres only 15mins Y time in my day cause their naps overlap) so I try to do a quick check throughout the day and answer as many posts as I can but to actually read pages and pages is a bit harder for me :P. Maybe one day I'll join you ladies.... Is your lo on the 2-1 swtich yet? I am having a hell of a time with naps at the moment. I just want all this to be over!!!
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Yes we're on one nap now so don't slap me but it is going sooooo well I keep pinching myself to see if it's for real! I'm sure it won't last, LOL! ;D
We CAN chat...sometimes I feel guilty for how much time I spend there as opposed to doing mod duties, but I love those ladies to bits and wouldn't want to lose what I have with them, kwim? Come join us any time! Get those naps overlapping more, LOL! ;)
(sorry again DavidsMum! ;))
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My you girls can chat...I wonder what mum's stuck at home with bubs did before www?
We took a huge step forward today...then slid 3 steps back
He woke at 520 but was happy, babbled to himself for an hour (I turned off DH's alarm and made him stay in bed) and then DS went back to sleep until 7 ;D
But then he had an appointment this morning and got very upset on the way home and we resorted to AP to get the am nap :-[
Then he was only awake 2h20m and he started screaming that I had missed his nap time...he does this some times...happy playing and then crying mess with no indication it was coming. I tried to calm him down and put him in his cot but I only got 45 out of him and could not get him to resettle.
He went down very easily at 6 and was given clear instructions not to awake before 7am :D
Kat it is starting to get light at about 630ish I guess (sunrise 715)....his room has a good blind that keeps the window area dark....but the door to it is glass and there is a glass panel. I was thinking today that I could get some super curtains and blackout his room...like a photographic darkroom more for naps than EW...not sure how much that would cost but worth a shot...I am not sure where to buy them from ???
I am wondering whether the cold might have something to do with it, but he is in a grobag and dressed far warmer than they recommend.
I really need to get his naps sorted out as I think OT is the main cause of the problems.
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I really need to get his naps sorted out as I think OT is the main cause of the problems
I think this is the key here. Him going back to sleep until 7am is a great start!!! & an indication that he is indeed catching up on sleep & getting over overtiredness. If you can maybe dedicat 2 weeks at home, it might be easier to get him back on track so that naps are not delayed or short, etc....
Keep us posted :-*
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I agree that it sounds like you are on the right track. Is he in the room with you and DH? You mention DH's alarm going off...or is it just the noise of getting ready in the am that might disturb him?
We went to the fabric store and got a dark green felt. It works great - no need for seams or hems or anything, you just cut it the size you need (I'm so not sewing inclined!). Doubling it up makes it even darker. Then what I did was get a grommet staple and put some grommets across the top and a couple of inconspicuous hooks across the top of the windows and so it is super easy to hang them and take them down between naps and bedtime...and in fact is part of our pre-nap and pre-bed routine. :) ANd it was super cheap and easy to do for my non-crafty self. :)
Hey Layla today is a special day - Jasmine at some point today will be 1 year, 1 month, 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour and 1 minute old!! ;D
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More progress....DS slept until DH got into the shower at 620 and he had 1hour am nap. The pm nap was only 45m but that is far better than the 25-30m we have been getting ;D
He is not in our room...never was...but again the layout of the house and the wooden floor boards mean that noises travel between the rooms...I can hear him suck his fingers from our bed...in fact sometimes when I hear him during the night I think he is in our bed (which again we have never done) and I worry about him falling out so I jump on him....or in this case on DH who wakes with a fright
I have tried to stay home the last 2 weeks, in fact the last 9 months, as he just does not sleep anywhere else, but the doctors appnoinments can not be avoided.
I have a question about deep sleep...I know that the sleep cycle is 45m but he made the loud mmm mmm mmm noises every 45m last night, does that mean he did not make it into deep sleep or is this normal??? (mm mmm mmm noises are loud groans and sometimes thumb sucks that he makes when he goes to sleep) He also adid this from 20m into his am nap for about 20m non stop.
Kat I love the felt idea, perfect for my sewing talents, possibly a little tricky for my craft talents, but I am sure I could manage. ;)
Thanks for all the advice and more importantly the support I really feel like we are getting somewhere.
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You have no idea how happy that made me feel!!! The pm nap was always hard for us as well & I had to do w2s for (what it felt like) ever!!! Would you be willing to give it a go for a few days to see if it might extend???
I might look into the whole cycle thing again - I have the whole night sleep cycle somewhere in Jasmine's room but she's asleep now for the night. I know for sure though that the early hrs of the morning (or the latter part of night sleep) consists of more REM sleep so if he seems to be making noises or moving about towards the morning, thats perfectly normal!!!
Thanks for all the advice and more importantly the support I really feel like we are getting somewhere.
You definitely are!
Kat - You are unreal!!! I LOVE that!!! In fact, Jasmine will be 1 year, 1 month, 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour & 1 minute old in about 1min ;D ;D ;D (she was born at 8:13pm on the 13th May)
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Yay! Such good news! It sounds like you are getting on top of it all...
We live in an older house so I know the issues with noises. Do you have any white noise in his room? That has saved us so many times...our house is also super close to others and our neighbors can be N-O-I-S-Y!
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Another reasonable night...woke for about 20m at 540 but then slept to 645 ;D
The morning did not go so well....he was a mess by 9am and then it took ages to calmhim and put him down, in hindsight I should have just put him down straight away and left him to it instead of fussing about.
I am going to read up on the w2s this morning and give it a go this arvo.
If it works after the 1st 30m do you go back in the next 30m and try again?
Also how awake do you wake them? Just a stir or eyes open?
The noises I am talking about are not just in the morning...it is all night...like 8pm onwards
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I used to go in at 30mins & just do it once. I never went back again for another round. Once was enough to get her to sleep for 1+hours. And about a week later she was doing it on her own. You don't want to wake him up at all. You just want him to move or stir a little. Just stir!!! So even if he shifts his head from one side to another or lifts his hand and back down again... that was enough for us
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Oh the noises I was talking about was the noises from moving about in the house and such.
My guess is his noises are part of a self-soothing thing. If he's doing it every 45mins he could be doing it to soothe himself back to sleep. His own version of mantra.
Keep up the GREAT work!
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Well I did not even get the opportunity to try w2s...he woke after 20m ::)
I think I really am not getting him to bed on time.
I will just have to wait until tomorrow and try again....gee this is frustrating..
Is it better to have set nap times or just go with the flow so if he sleeps 9-945 you put him down at 1245 but then next day if he sleeps 9-11 (I wish) put him down at 2? Or stick with 9 and 1 no matter what?
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Bummer, he woke at 20mins ::). You know something that Kat said might actually help you out as well.... have you thought about possibly extending A times??? Considering for the past 3 mornings he's woken up at between 6.30-7am! I would try & push the morning nap out till you get close to 9.30 so that the pm nap is close to 1.30-2pm.
I think I really am not getting him to bed on time.
What time is bedtime?
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The other thing to keep in mind is if he has a short nap, he may not be able to make an entire A time afterwards. So you might have to try a version of EASASE or something of the sort.
And yes, tomorrow is another day to try yet again. :D Push him a little and see what happens.
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Well today we start at day 1 again...thats right 2 1/2 weeks down the tube
I went out in Saturday afternoon and left DH with instructions. When I got home and he was just starting DS's dinner 45min after the time I had instructed I asked why and was told "because I was busy wearing him out so he would sleep tonight!".
Is my DH the only one not capable of listening???
So needless to say my OT and OS DS did not sleep well. He was awake from 945 - 130 at which point I took him into the armchair so he could get some sleep.
And it will come as no surprise that we had a 430 EW this morning.
I am furious with DH but what can I do? I just feel like screaming at the top of my lungs to let out all this pent up frustration
So I am back where I started...or even worse as I have resorted to the armchair cuddles prop.
Also DS has started pulling up on things so this milestone probably won't help.
I feel like the last 2 1/2 weeks of my life were a complete waste and now I have another 3 weeks of crap to look forward to.
And w2s doesn't seem to be any good for us as as soon as I step on the squeaky floor boards DS wakes up screaming.
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Oh sweetie I'm so sorry to hear about that. Bop your DH on the head for me! Or make him take over during the nights when he screws it all up so he understands?? :P Men. Don't get me started! ;D
Hopefully it will be some consolation that babies that have settled on a routine sometimes jump back to it with a vengence when put back on it, kind of like "Thank GOD I needed somebody to do this for me!" It will take a little bit but I do NOT think the last 2 1/2 weeks have been a waste - he will recognize you going back to what you have been working on. And I do NOT predict it will take him 3 weeks to bounce back (please, David, do not make a liar of me!).
Take a deep breath, you can do this, we are here with you every step of the way. And don't feel bad for resorting to props, it's how we make it through. Can't tell you how many times dd has fallen asleep on the breast with me in bed, LOL! Spirited LOs that resist sleep like ours are HARD to get to sleep and I'm all for encouraging AP just to get some sleep restored and then go back to the good stuff. :)
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Well things are still crap :'(
Yesterday I thought we were making progress as he slept until 515 and managed a 45 m nap in the pm and went down early at night.
But today was a 440 wake up and then the am nap just did not happen so at 10am we ended up in the armchair and we both slept for an hour.
Still very annoyed with DH >:(
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Don't be upset with DH... you'll get there. What time did he go down for the night? When he woke at 4:40, was there no chance of getting him back to sleep? Are you still trying the pd method for naps?
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Today I really gave in to it all...I was just so desperate for him to get some sleep.
So we had 1 hour in the chair this morning and after the 30min pm nap back to the chair for another 1h25m.
Went down nicely to bed tonight at 630pm...has been 6 rest of the week but after the late arvo nap we agreed on 630.
I try to get him to resettle in the morning but he just doesn't, today after an hour we ended up in the chair for 30m as I thought that was better than no sleep.
So now I really am back at the very beginning of this chaos. I don't want to get stuck on this armchair track again. But I just don't feel like I have a chance of getting anywhere whilst he is OT.
He has stopped making the mm mmm mmm noises at night, I don't know if that means he is sleeping better or just soothing a new way???
Do I continue with the armchair nap extensions to get him back on the routine and not OT or try and stick with the resettling in the cot screaming? I feel like we are just making him hate the cot and nap time as it ends up in so much crying. I hope that once he is no longer OT and we have some sort of routine he will not wake up and do proper naps. Am I asking too much?
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You are not asking too much imho! We all strive for that, don't we? :D
As far as the armchair thing, it depends on who you talk to. I always did whatever it took to get dd her sleep when she was OT because she is completely incapable of independent sleep if OT. And I mean completely. Others can still deal with sleep training while OT, you just adjust your A times to allow for more time to get them to sleep. Follow your heart, sweetie. Trust your Mommy instincts to tell you what he needs, then regroup and get him back on track with the independent sleep and such.
It sounds like you are doing a good job getting him caught up, though. Any thoughts on why he is resisting that first nap? Does he go down well the rest of the time? If he goes down well the rest of the time then something is up with that first A and S time. If he fights it every time then he wants the armchair.
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It is not so much that he is resisting...he is just way OT.
He will sleep but keep jerking awake and then after 20 m he wakes instead of going into deep sleep.
I thought he had caught up on sleep to sleep in today but we had a 4am call out, he put himself back to sleep for 45m and then awake, so in the armchair we went.
I should ass he has trouble getting to sleep in the chair too....lots of jerking and carry on, yawning and eye rubbing...it took an hour this morning for him to fall asleep again so he is still very tired when we start the day.
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Right. So OT is the culprit, and not having a strong want to be in the armchair, does that make sense? So in my opinion as long as he's not DEMANDING to go in the armchair, keep it up until he's rested. Does that make sense?
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Things are worse than ever...I don't know what to do???
The armchair seems to have made things worse as he won't sleep unless I am there.
Last night he woke at 215 and was awake until 430 then awake again at 515 then i don't know what happened after then but I got up at 7 amd got him up then too.
I went in and changed his nappy at 230 and then left him to it as it seems that my being there makes him less likely to sleep...unless I hold him and that is a whole new prop to get rid of.
So where do I go from here? I have to go back to work in 9 weeks and really need to get him sorted before then.
DH and I have decided that if we just stick to strict times and leave him in the cot until the nap is in theory meant to be over. But I don't know how that helps him being OT or if that will work???
So
630: awake
0700: BF
0800: weetbix
0930: in cot
1030: out of cot
1045: snack
1200: lunch
1330: in cot
1530: out of cot
1545: snack
1700: dinner
1800: in cot...he'll be tired so I guess 1800 is better than 1830.
What else can I do....he just won't sleep and me going in there just seems to make it worse.
I really need help here.
HELP
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OK, I would start fresh & make a mental note not to include ANY props. I know that he is likely to get overtired but it seems like the props are really getting in the way of him learning to self soothe & wether he is overtired now or will be overtired later when you decide to go all the way, he WILL get overtired during the sleep training period. So I think the idea of him doing set nap times is good & will set his little internal clock.
I would use pu/pd or just pd if picking him up seems to bother him more. Don't do the rocking, don't hold him to sleep & don't stay there if he is not crying (even if that means he is not sleeping). If he is playing rather than sleeping for the whole hour, let him be!!! Forget the morning nap & do an earlier afternoon nap & earlier bedtime
Set the nap times & let base it on your schedule
630: awake
0700: BF
0800: weetbix
0930: in cot
1030: out of cot
1045: snack
1200: lunch
1330: in cot
1530: out of cot
1545: snack
1700: dinner
1800: in cot...he'll be tired so I guess 1800 is better than 1830.
If his morning nap is delayed & by say 10.30 he is not asleep, then bump up the pm nap to 11ish & do a super early bedtime (be it 5/5.30pm).
hth
Layla
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Hi Layla
We are finally sleeping through the night again....I think.
Somehow it has ended up being 6 - 6 but that is fine with me, we can tweak later when we are recovered from all this mess.
So naps are now 9 and 13.
He is still struggling with naps though, 30mins is not a nap but how do you tell a 10month old that???
I have put stickers on his floorboards so that I can sneak in on the non creaky ones to try w2s once he starts doing 45min naps.
I know you have a lot of w2s experience so was wondering if you can tell me when is the best time to do it, just before or just after 30 mins? And what did you do exactly, just put your hand on her back? I think you mentioned adjusting the blankets but he is in a grobag. Any w2s advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Em :-*
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Yes, try w2s. I used to go in at 30 mins & stroke her cheek or stroke the palm of her hand... just enough to make her stir & that used to do the trick!!!
Wow - I am so happy he's sleeping through. Have you stopped the rocking???
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It wasn't even rocking, purely holding him in the armchair, but I guess he really got used to having me there. I knew when 45m was up as without waking his hand would reach up and touch my face and he would happily continue sleeping.
Now it is in the cot, a little back rub and mum is out the door. Tonight he didn't even cry when I left the room ;D
I tried something new today and would like your honest opinion. I don't think it is CIO but let me know what you think.
As my responding to him when he wakes results in him not going back to sleep...as the 430 NW come EW showed us...and the only way to get rid of the EW was to ignore him and he goes back to sleep and the next morning slept through ...well I tried it at his nap today.
He woke at 30 min and did the OT cry he does when he wakes and is not refreshed. Then when I didn't respond he did his yell that he does when no one comes, then he went quiet a bit, yelled and cried a bit, quiet a bit etc and then about 35 min later back to sleep for 45 min. And boy was he a pleasure this afternoon, no grizzly grumpiness.
I don't think it is CIO as he isn't exactly distressed crying, more annoyed and more yelling for attention than crying per say.???
The BW books say do PUPD until he goes back to sleep or the nap time is over and in a few days (more I'd say) they will start sleeping the nap themselves. So I am working on this principle, but instead of PUPD I sit on the couch trying not to make noise, eating comfort food and pleading with some higher being that David will go back to sleep.
So what do you think? :-\ :-\ ???
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I personally don't think its cio. Sounds like he's doing a mantra cry & putting himself back to sleep. Be careful though cause if he's actually doing a distress "i need you mummy" cry, then don't leave him. Even if he doesn't go back to sleep, he still needs to know that you are there for him. Its more important for him not to feed abandoned than to have him sleep a long time, iykwim.
You're doing great!!!
Keep me posted
:-*
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Update:
Hi Layla, how is the 2-1 going with Jasmine?
Things are slightly improved on this end.
He is still having NW but not that I need to respond to, it just seems that he is awake every 45m from 3am onwards and each time it is harder to get back to sleep and I think he is pretty much awake from 520 onwards but not really calling for me until 545. I am wondering whether I should knock bed time back to 630 again, maybe he just doesn't sleep 12 hours at night?
Naps are up and down, somedays he squeals after 30m then is back to sleep 5m later and lasts another 45m. But if he makes it past the 30m he is up after 45m and will not go back to sleep. Today I am going to try w2s and see how that goes.
Do they have a 10mth GS??? Before I could drag him out until 7am but now he is demanding BF from 6 and I am lucky to drag it out to 630. Also during the day he will start whinging and I have no idea whats up and eventually offer him a banan or something and he'll eat it all, even though he has just had lunch, and then be happy again.
Also when I strted this sleep training he was 9 mo but now he is 10 mo should I be changing nap times at all?
Everyone said "It gets easier", but I had it so good for so long that for me it just keeps getting harder, guess I should be grateful for the start that I had. :)
Thanks for your help ....and listening...funny how much better it feels just writing your problems down and pretending the whole world is listening.
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Hey there :D. I am so pleased you posted back!
Naps - he should be able to do 3 hrs now so maybe try stretching the morning nap now to 9:15 (& you might want to try & cut it down to 45mins) Then do pm nap 3.5hrs later & bedtime 3.5hrs later.
Your day would look something like this:
wake up - say b/n 5.30-6am
9:15-10am - morning nap
1:30-3pm - afternoon nap
6.30pm - bedtime
Give that a go for a week to see if it will make a difference to the morning wake hour.
Food - if he's last BF would have been at 6pm, then its understandible that he will be hungry 12hrs later... so try & stretch him to 6:30, I wouldn't do any later than that. Is he eating fairly well for breakfast, lunch & dinner? & also the 2-3 snacks? Could be that his appetite has increased. They are constantly growing (especially in the 1st year) so if he still seems hungry, give him something.
I am listening - always! I am so happy you are still updating :-*
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I'm still listening, too! ;D Just MIA for a few days with company and a trip for the holidays...sounds like you two have it all under control! ;)
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I feel like such a failure today.
I don't understand why this is taking so long???
Everything you read makes it sound like 3-5 days and all your problems will be solved, but it has been weeks and I feel like it keeps getting worse.
I have gone from a 630 wake up to a 5am wake up.
I am now considering a 5 -5 day...at this rate I'll be doing a 3-3 day in a week or two and 7pm-7am in a couple more. where do you draw the line???
I don't know what to do .....he will not sleep longer during the day and he just grizzles at me all day long, this is not fun for either of us, I am sure life is not meant to be like this.
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Last time you posted he seemed to be settling himself for naps & at night. What has happened in the last few days that makes you think you'll be going back to 5-5?
How long is the pm nap? Have you tried pushing it to a later time?
You've got to remember that you really only started again on the 1st of July (which is when all the props stopped, I think)... so you are doing really well. If he's been able to put himself to sleep from short naps & at nighttime then it may be something else that needs tweaking.
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I second that! Remember you have done a LOT in this period of time!
The waking more and more frequently as the night goes on does sound like OT still...especially if he's not napping well, either.
I know we had a very noticable growth spurt somewhere in the 9-10month range. There's a group of gals on here that also swear by the book called "the wonder weeks" and babies all go through relatively predictable fussy stages. Interesting concept, new to me though. So now I always wonder "hmmm I wonder if this is one of the fussy stages..." :D
You can do this, chica. Give yourself permission to feel frustrated and then let's pick up and try again. ;D
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Sorry...I think I had a PMS poor me moment this morning. :-[
He is settling himself now, so yes things are better but I can not get naps for longer than 45min...which is better than the 20-30 we had a few weeks ago.
But he is waking earlier every day.
Today was 5am wake so 4 hours A time before nap which only lasted 45m.
Then 3.5 A time and another 45m nap. I tried w2s but he still wakes at 45m and does not resettle.
So if I wait until 630 for bed that will be 4.5 A time, I have been doing 6pm bed so it will be 4hours tonight.
Sorry again about before, you have been great and its not your job to solve my problems, it just makes me feel better taking it out on the computer. :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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I just wanted to offer some more encouragement :-* With Colin it was much the same.... when the book said it would take two weeks to make a change, it took him 2.5 MONTHS. No kidding. It's always taken him far, far longer to make any adjustments so I have learned to expect it. And there's no gradual about it.... it goes from total refusal and resistance to total acceptance in the snap of your fingers. Odd, but that's the way he is. So hang in there, it WILL come together for you.
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Thanks Jessica
Well I hate to admit it but we ended up back in the chair today.
David has bronchiolitis which came really suddenly late yesterday and he was coughing and wheezing all night.
I tried to get him to sleep in the cot for 45m this morning but he was so tired he kept jerking and waking so in the chair we went. He slept a solid 1.5h so i was thinking that was great as he would have a later pm nap and hopefully end up on a later bedtime etc. But the poor love only made it to 130 and I put him down, trying to breathe can really take it out of you. Hopefully he will have a good sleep on his own.
So we are back on the prednisolone sleep destroyer for 3 days and AP to help him get any sleep he can.
Hopefully it won't last too long and we can go back to sleep training again.
I'll let you know when we are back into it again.
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Oh poor little man! Give him a hug from me! And one for you, too!
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Poor David :(. I hope he feels better soon
{{{HUGS}}}} :-*
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Oh I'm so sorry! :( I have also held Colin in a chair at night to sleep when he's been really congested. Sometimes that's what you have to do. :-*
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I thought you would want an update.
The good news is that the illness didn't affect us too badly and only that one stint in the armchair was required and no other AP. We even stuck pretty much to the sleep training so it was all good.
He has now slept to 6 or later for 5 days. But he is tired and cranky by 8am. So by 9 he was a screaming mess when I put him down today. I am thinking 3 hours in the morning is just too long for him, maybe he isn't sleeping too well earlier in the morning, he did cry out at 520 this morning but went back to sleep.
He was so bad this morning that I ended cuddling him to sleep (not intentional he was screaming so bad and I picked him up and cuddled him and he went to sleep) and he slept for about 1 hour and 15. Then he went down 3 hours later. He was tired again.
So maybe he can only do 2.5 A in the morning and 3 A after that. Which could leave a very long A before bedtime but I don't know what else to do. As it is his naps are not long enough so A time is already quite long before bedtime, so if it gets him longer naps during the day then maybe he will sleep better at night and then we can extend A time.
What do you think? Or should I just stick with the current schedule and hope it all comes good soon. I have no idea???
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There is no harm in trying :). But if you see that his naps are not getting longer & he is indeed awake for a very long time before bedtime, I would try to stretch him out to 3hrs in the morning & 3.5hrs in the pm. He might not be tired though. I've found that at this age (well sooner than that), a tired sign usually meant a change of scenery.
My 2yo can still show a tired sign here or there & will probabyl fall asleep as early as 11.30 but if I continuosly offer her a nap at 11.30, she will then be awake for a long time before bedtime & will get overtired.
His morning nap can be as sort as 45mins at 10months but you do want to try & extend the pm nap
It also sounds like he might be teething (if he's screaming at night or early morning)
Thanks for the update :)
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You wouldn't be in the minority if you have a LO that wants a super short A time in the am, LOL! Bethany was on a 2hr A time in the am for ages...worth a try, anyway!