BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: bla04017 on October 23, 2007, 20:34:09 pm
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I am really trying to be persistant with the pat/shh with my 6 wk old... dh and I decided to try no matter what for one week if no 2 weeks. I am hoping it'll work, but I'm already feeling discouraged at day 2. I need some encouragment by people's success stories. How long did you have to do it before they could settle on their own? What was the pattern-- every nap? how long each time? in the middle of naps? etc.
PLEASE POST SOMETHING, or I might just quit and go back to CC (and I don't want to do that!)
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Hi...{{[hugs}} honey, don't do CC. That breaks a trust that you can't easily get back.
My LO is 6.5months old and shh/patt works to this day. We do a modified version of it at every nap and most bedtimes, also we use it after the dreamfeed if she's woken up. She didn't like it at first, and I practically had to yell the shh part to get above her crying. That was the part that got her orginally, the "shh". It seemed apparent that she couldn't concentrate on crying if I did it. I felt like my arm and back were going to seize, and who was crazy enough to think this would work. I patt her bum instead of her back, she would arch if I did it that way. I also used to patt her bum quite hard....family members couldn't believe that this would actually put her to sleep as opposed to wake her up, but it worked. I had to do it over my shoulder for a while in the beginning, then we did it in her crib on her side. She sleeps on her side to this day, and it only takes a quiet shh, and some light patts and she's relaxed...I then leave the room and she's off to dreamland.
Consistancy is the best advice I can give you. Stick with it, and patt past the point you think she's sleeping. Slowly slow down the patting until your hand is just resting on her and then leave.
It'll get better
HTH :)
Lyndsy
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Hi,
My DS2 was a horrible sleeper for the first 10 months of his life. That is when I got really sick and tired of being up all hours of the night. I got all sleep training books ever written and decided I liked BWing best.
So at 10.5 months I used Shh/pat because I felt PU/PD would not work quicklly enough for me since my son had/has really bad SA. It took 1.5 weeks of consistantly putting my son back to sleep with Shh/pat. It worked really well. We went from 5-6 NWings per night to one per week. Now my son is 16 months old and he sleeps through most nights unless he has a cold or wakes thirsty. B/c he is older I leave a 4 oz bottle of water in his crib and he puts himself back to sleep.
It will get better you LO is so young yet. I didn't worry about sleep training with either of my boys until 2.5 or 3 months.
Lots of hugs to you
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Shh/pat also worked for me, but it wasn't until she was about 2.5-3 months that the hard crying at naps finally subsided. Our problem, I think, was putting her down a bit too early, which caused her to resist naps from about 6-7 weeks. Like noted above, I had to shhh REALLY loudly and the patting was almost like thumping at times. You have to overtake their senses. But, once I started waiting until she started her whiny fussing to move into sleep mode, shh/pat got down to less than 5 minutes. Now, she hugs her bunny and sucks her fingers and put herself to sleep, unles she's overtired, in which case I put my hand on her and shush (she still responds to the sound).
I also started BW early, about 4-5 weeks. I don't know that I'd put so much pressure of myself or the baby for #2 for independent sleep. Some babies just need time to develop better habits.
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1st of all (((((((((BIG HUGS)))))))))))). I just want to second what Lyndsy said, please don't do CC! If you have done CC in the past then I would imagine that it might take you a little longer to re-build the trust with your LO but that should happen fairly quickly as he/she is still so young.
We found it shh/pat worked really well with us but it did take a while before she was sleeping totally independently. I agree with pps in that consistency is the key. I think if you do it consistently for 2 weeks then your lo should be a lot easier to settle. I think we started at around 45 - 60 mins to go down for night sleep and within a few weeks this was reduced to about 5 - 10 mins. It is gradual and you just need to stick with it.
My DD is now 18 mths, all we do (and have done since she was about 3 mths old) is do bath etc, wind down stuff with getting her into pjs etc, read her a story, then put her in her cot, say "it's sleepytime now, mummy loves you" and that's it. On the odd occaisions that she doesn't go down ok it's due to teething, separation anxiety or other illness, in other words, there's been a specific problem and once that's passed she's back to sleeping independently again.
As Tracy said in her books, EASY doesn't mean that it's easy to do, but it makes everyone's (particularly the babies) lives sooooo much easier (calmer & peaceful too) in the long run. Please stick with it and when you're struggling, come on here for reassurance, it's what got me through some tough times.
Keep us up to date with how it's going....you can do it :-*
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Pat/Shh totally worked for us but maybe you have to lower your expectations a bit about how quickly and how consistently it will work.
It took a good couple of weeks for it to really kick in but it doesn't work all the time every time if you know what I mean. Consistency is the key and after a week or so you will notice it takes less time to settle your lo. When Riley was that age sometimes sh/pat didn't work and we had to resort to white noise maybe twice a week at bed time.
The only other tip I can give you is to try and remain calm, relaxed and in control. The more confidence you show your child the more they will pick up that feeling and relax into sleep.
It does work so hang in there, your hard work now will REALLY pay off in the long term.
Soph
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Hi there. Big hugs to you. I'm sorry you're having a hard time, is there someone who could come help so you can get some rest? Sometimes when you're really tired, everything seems huge and hopeless.
I'd like to point out that CC and CIO - these things are not rec to be used on babies until baby is older (I read Dr Ferber himself said 8m). So that really shouldn't be an option for a 6 week old. Also, I'm not sure what you're goal is exactly but your baby is very young s/he may still need at least one feeding at night, and will need help from you to get to sleep. I don't want you to set yourself up for failure by having an unattainable expectation.
At this age, pat/shh is used more to help baby to sleep without creating a prop. By using pat/shh, as baby gets older and actually able to learn how to self soothe you start to help less, eventually letting them fall asleep indep. But, know this is a process - it's not going to magically work in 2weeks for a baby this young, simply because baby may not but mature enough to learn how to do it all by themselves at this young age. Does that make sense? You may have read stories on the PUPD board about babies being taught to sleep and needing to commit to 2 weeks, these babies are much older (4m and up to use PUPD) and most often its being used to break a prop addiction like, say a paci - and to teach indep sleep. We like to start using pat/shh right at the start so down the road, we don't have to break prop additions. ;)
That said, let's review pat/shh for under 3 months:
This is how you do it.....
We don't pickup/putdown with babies under 3 months old because it's too overstimulating. Instead we completely calm the baby with pat/shush.
Swaddle the baby snugly and make sure the room is as dark as you can get it. Lay the baby on his side so you have access to the back. You can use a wedge or a rolled up towel to prop him up.
Patting and shushing is done with a firm pat in the center of the back (like a tick-tock rhythm) and a long, repeated shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh past (not into) the ear. Loudly, like a faucet. Not fast.
Generally you do the patting/shushing in the crib. Though if he cries, you can pick him up, patting and shushing him over your shoulder, until he's completely calm. Then lay him down and keep patting and shushing. (Put a hand on his chest, or if the room isn't very dark, shield his eyes from visual stimulation.) Try it in the crib but if he wont settle you can pick him up. Keep patting and shushing in the crib for 7 - 10 minutes after he's completely settled and zoning out. Eventually stop shushing. If he cries, shush again while patting and pick up if necessary. Eventually you will get to the point where you are patting and shushing, and he's zoning out and settled in the crib. Then you slow down the patting and shushing, then stop shushing, and keep patting until baby goes to sleep. Stay with him until he's in stage three - deeper into sleep, totally let go, no eye movements. Past the "jolt." You may or may not need to be patting still at this point. Some babies will need the patting, some will need the hand on the chest or just your presence. This is the age where they still need you to guide them into sleep, and this is how you do it without accidental parenting.
The key is not to stop just because baby has calmed down, keep it up. And stay with him, don't leave, until he's melted into the crib!
And if 40 - 45 minutes have passed without sleep, feed him and try again. He'll be hungry by then. (Copies and pasted from this thread: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0
As you can see, at this age we still need to help baby quite a bit. But, using pat/shh will help a lot down the road when baby gets a touch older because you will not have created a prop like rocking or feeding to sleep.
Do you have baby on Easy? If not, you can post here for help with that: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=41.0 I would imagine at 6w your baby would need a 3h Easy routine.
Are you swaddling? This really helps because at 6w baby's nervous system is still maturing and don't really have good control over their arms and legs, they startle themselves awake a lot - so a good, snug swaddle is really helpful.
Are you using white noise? We use a fan set to high, facing the wall for white noise and it works great. White noise kind of creates the same sort of sounds that they heard in the womb and it tends to be comforting to most.
I can tell you pat/shh does work. I didn't use it til I found BW - at 4m, but I have helped many people successfully use it. Pat/shh helped us wean the paci and swaddle (because I wasn't lucky enough to know about it til my son was 4m and already addicted to the paci lol).
Hang in there hun, this is a rough time but it does get better and you will get to sleep more than 2h at a time again. Stick with pat/shh, it really will pay off - not immediately, probably not in 2 weeks completely - but it is the first step in the process of teaching baby healthy sleep habits that will last a life time.
Good Luck, we are here to support you. HUGS HUGS HUGS
Zoey
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i hear you on the feeling discouraged!!! that was how I found this place!! ;D it just did NOT seem like it was working on my ds.
but looking back - it was working. it was just working very slowly. he was touchy & grumpy and it was hard for me to learn how to work with him. it took about 7 weeks to get his days & nights turned around where they belonged, another 3-5 weeks to get nighttime sleep sorted, and then another 6 weeks to get naps sorted.
but it WORKED. there were times when i cried, there were many times that i was exhausted. keep in mind, when i give those lengths, that was how long it took to be finished. there was improvement each day after about a week.
YOU CAN DO IT. YOU CAN DO IT. YOU CAN DO IT. there is a light at the end of the tunnel. you WILL get through this. ;D ;D
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Okay... so some of you are making comments that he is so young to do sleep training to the point that he'll sleep on his own and that I shouldn't let him CIO. I understand that, I didn't hear about BW until about a week ago so I didn't know WHAT to do at first. I would hold him and he would cry in my arms so I thought if he is going to cry in my arms then why not just let him cry in the crib. I would check on him often and that is what I did to start with because I didn't know any other way. Once I read BW I felt like a pretty horrible person for doing that, but like I said i didn't know.
BW says CIO is not good. SOO the alternative is to do the shh/pat. My baby is fussy ESPECIALLY when it is nap time so pretty much he crys all the time when it is time to sleep. I don't want to leave him to cry So i'm doing shh/pat, BUT i don't think i have the sanity to do that everytime he cries too. AUGHH I just feel like there is no alternative.
I'm trying to stick with it. Today for every nap I've been able to get him asleep within 30 mins of shh/pat. (one of the naps he woke up and I tried to extend w/ shh/pat for another 30 mins--finally I just fed him). I just feel like I'm putting A LOT of time into trying to avoid letting him cry and if it isn't even going to work until he is older and capable of soothing himself, what really is the point? It seems like the point is to drown out his crying, not help him sleep.
I'm not trying to be negative, i just need support and understanding of the process.
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Its very tough hey!
Lots of us have been there and been through worse! I guess one comment that sprang to mind with your last post was that babies do cry and it shouldn't be your goal to stop them crying full stop.
Sh/pat is used for bedtime, if your lo is crying at other times you can comfort him in other ways.
When previous posters say that they learn to settle themselves when they are older they are not suggesting that you are on a hopeless quest. What they mean is that as your lo gets older you may be able to simply pop them in the cot, give a quick goodnight and off they will go to sleep. At this young age you are providing reassurance and guidance and that is the point.
One thing I found really helpful when I was a brand new Mum was to lower my expectations about how much my lo would fuss and cry and how easy it would be to help them establish a good sleep pattern. They really are little random critters when they first arrive and it takes hard work to teach them and ourselves good habits.
I remember walking my lo around the house for a good hour every night for about 6 weeks between 5.00pm and 6.00pm when she would cry and cry and cry through the witching hour. It's just something you have to accept I'm afraid.
The more you can come to accept that being a Mum is really hard in the early stages the less of a hard time you will give yourself for not being able to solve all the problems right away.
Have you tried white noise? The SHHHHH in the sh/pat is kind of like white noise for babies but for us on those really hard nights we used a white noise CD turned up really loud and that was brilliant.
Soph
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Hugs to you!!! I absolutely could have written your post when my dd was 6 weeks (in fact, I think my dh actually did!). But pat/shh really does work!!! We would spend so long doing it, taking turns with me, dh, and my mom, and sometimes still dd would not sleep. But we really did teach her how to do it by herself, and gradually, the amount of shh/patting time got less and less, til eventually, we really do just wind her down and plop her in the crib. It was horrible for the first couple months, but it's sooooooooooooooo pays off now!!! For me, the worst time was 6-9 weeks, then nighttime sleep got sorted out, then daytime sleep. Not that we never regress, but I definitely starting seeing improvement after a couple weeks. Consistency is really the key. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!! And come here to vent and get encouragement whenever you need to!!!!
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<<<<BIG HUGS>>>>> to you! And you're in no way a "bad" mom or person for not knowing what else to do. Even knowing about BW, there were times that I felt like I couldn't go on, that my back was going to collapse from bending over her crib shushing and patting, that I was going to lose my mind from lack of sleep. I felt like things were never going to get better and that it wasn't "working." When you're in the eye of the storm, that IS how it feels, so it's completely normal even though it's miserable. But if you think of shh/pat and EASY as your compass... even though you can't see where you're going, so many of us have been there and know that this is the way through it! Like others have said, it's not a cake-walk out and it's going to take time, but it really does get better!!
Remember, crying for babies generally peaks at about 6 weeks old, so you are getting through the toughest time right now. You should likely start to see the amount of crying subsiding really soon. I had to shift my mindset from "Stop crying! Why are you crying!? What am I doing wrong!?" (which just made me anxious, worried, stressed, and even angry) to a mindset of "Poor baby. It's so hard to be 6 weeks old. I can't do much to help, but I'm here for you. We'll get through it together." (which helped me send more relaxed vibes to my dd). And when I was too exhausted for that to even work, I had to hand the baton off to someone else to take over for a while.
Do you have some support from a partner, a parent, a friend? It's amazing what a 4 hour block of sleep will do for you if there's someone else who can help out. Don't be afraid to ask anyone and everyone.
Hang in there!!!
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Thank you everyone for your support and your posts. I will continue to try. I'm REALLY trying not to stress out, sometimes it is hard. I am lucky because I do have support from my wonderful husband... but during the day it is all on me. I know that the best thing I am doing right now is to get him on the routine, which I have been doing since day one (a eat/wake/sleep cylce) has anyone heard of the Babywise booK?? That is what I was going by. Everything is nearly the same as with BW, except for the CIO. Babywise said in no way will it hurt to let them cry 10-15 minutes and that it is more harmful to just block out their crys(ex: by picking them up to get them quiet).... BUT when i heard of the BW and read about not CIO I wanted so bad to try that because I don't like hearing him cry for that long.
I will try and try and try.... SIGH.... I do accept that being a mom is hard WORK!
Thanks again everyone. Keep posting those success stories :-*
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I know its hard. But 6 weeks is still very young.
I don't want to scare you, but in reality it may be 2-3 weeks before you see a change, especially because CC/CIO was used in the past. But please keep trying. It really will get better.
Don't feel guilty, when we know better we do better. No one here believes in CC/CIO but they also wont judge you or critisize you. We're all here for you. If you feel guilty he will sence that.
Did you read about the 5 S's in the last post I sent for you? (in a previous question of yours)
Pat/shush is hard work, good for you keeping with it.
Have you checked out the EASY bored at all? I highly suspect some changes in routine will also help with fussyness. If your LO is overtired it will take a lot longer to settle him. AS hard as it is to hear him cry, some crying is normal, but its easier for him to do it in your arms, (OK so maybe not for you ;) ) but really it'll build a strong bond and he will learn to sooth himself rather then close himself off.
Don't use babywise, thats too rigid. Babies don't go by the clock, instead follow his cues, let him lead the way. Sounds crazy, but it really helps. He knows when he is tired, hungry, bored, if you listen you can learn to understand. Takes a lot of work and time, but when you learn it you feel so much better.
You need a routine NOT a schedual. This way there is more flexability.
This will eventually settle into a solid routine, but really at 6 weeks, let loose and just watch him. Take a few days, stop and step back. Write everything down, thats what we did with DD.
I took 3 days and wrote everything, eating sleeping, peeing, pooing, everything, and you know what, a pattern developed that made making and EASY routine a lot easier. It followed her natural order and thus was easier on us both. Its about flexablity and in the end respect. You cannot expect him to fall into a routine right away, more then likely a solid routine wont really develope untill closer to 8-10 weeks. It can take 2-3 weeks on solid work to get a good base for a routine, once you have it though your good to go, only minor tweeking to meet his development and age.
Until then relax (hard I know) but really its true. If your stressed he'll stress, if your calm, he'll calm.
Also do the baby type test. Find out what type your baby is. Do that now and you can better understand your LO, a spirited baby needs different treatment then an Angel baby. Remember sleep signs are so suttle that you really need to watch. My DD is Spirited and for the longest time if I saw her Yawn I knew it was to late :( it was all bad, then I finally noticed her eye's started to go red and swell, ever so lightly, and BINGO!! I found a sleep cue I could finally catch ;D but that wasn't untill about 8 weeks I believe, maybe a bit longer.
Do it again in a month or so and you may find your LO is actually a different type, and just needed some help to get there.
Take a big step back and breath, you need to lower your expectations just a little. We've all been there, especially when its the first time, I know I was. But its true, once I lowered my expectations, she surpassed them.
You cannot expect a 6 week old to go 1.5-3 hours with no sleep (I did :-[ and it made me go mental) you cannot expect a 6 week old to only eat every 3 hours (some will, but its also an age for a growth spurt, most need feeds every 2 hours, especially BF babies) You cannot expect a 6 week old to self sooth (they just can't do it) and you cannot expect a 6 week old to "sleep through the night (anyone says theirs does is more then likly lieing, VERY few do.)
hth
P.S. your doing the right thing, your a great mom. Just keep saying that :) its true!!!
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Thank you everyone for your support and your posts. I will continue to try. I'm REALLY trying not to stress out, sometimes it is hard. I am lucky because I do have support from my wonderful husband... but during the day it is all on me. I know that the best thing I am doing right now is to get him on the routine, which I have been doing since day one (a eat/wake/sleep cylce) has anyone heard of the Babywise booK?? That is what I was going by. Everything is nearly the same as with BW, except for the CIO. Babywise said in no way will it hurt to let them cry 10-15 minutes and that it is more harmful to just block out their crys(ex: by picking them up to get them quiet).... BUT when i heard of the BW and read about not CIO I wanted so bad to try that because I don't like hearing him cry for that long.
I will try and try and try.... SIGH.... I do accept that being a mom is hard WORK!
Thanks again everyone. Keep posting those success stories :-*
Yes, this is the hardest work I've done - but it's also the best job ever. It's hard to see past the fog when you're not sleeping and not eating well - but it does get better, I promise. Pat/shh is worth it, for your baby and for you - it may be hard to see that now, but you will look back on a few months and be very glad you stuck with it. You can do this, for you and your baby. He is so little, he needs Mumma to be with him to teach him, to comfort him :-*
Keep us posted!
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Another success story to keep you going... At seven-weeks i decided to really get serious with routine and had to do shush/pat to get my boy to nap. For the first four days I had to do it FOR THE WHOLE NAP TIME! (90 minutes). I nearly went insane. Then it shortened to maybe 30 minutes, then within 10 days it was five minutes and then within two weeks I could put him down and he would put himself to sleep, and most of the time put himself back to sleep when he woke up.
To this day we still use a variation (jjust shussing, no patting) if he wakes early from his naps. He's now nearly 6 months old and is like clockwork at nap times. Honestly, putting the time in when he was little was the best thing I ever did, even if I was totally exhausted at the time. He's a dream.
the other thing was that I was REALLY consistent (and by this I mean totally anal) about his nap times. In fact, I still am. He sleeps in his crib every nap and I just work around him. Sounds like a pain, but he's sleeping 12 hours a night and not waking from naps in the day. He loves the consistency and I love the sleep! Also, this routine is getting easier on me because he is now down to two naps a day. So I have plenty of time to get out and get things done.
Good luck and keep going! It really is an amazing technique and well worth the effort!!!
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I also felt that shush/pat (after a while) wasn't teaching sleep but blocking her emotions/cries. Looking back, that's what I needed to do when she was that young. At about 4 months, I started to move away from shush/pat (PU/PD didn't work for us, too upsetting), so I just kept my hand on her and stood with her as she worked through her feeling (i.e. cried). I offered verbal encouragement, stroked her, etc. Within a couple of days, the crying had reduced to only a few minutes; now we sometimes have NONE! The thing is that she was old enough and capable of soothing herself--she hugs her bunny and sucks her fingers. She could not do these things at 8 weeks, so I had to do the soothing for her. Does that make sense?
It does take a long time. But I think the next time around I'll be more patient with myself because I'll really KNOW that there is light at the end of the tunnel...and the tunnel is long but not never-ending. :) Hang in there.
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Wow....I was just checking on this post and am feeling totally lucky that I am involved with BW'ing. What a great support group this is, so much help out there for those who need it.
bla04017.....Being a Mom is hard. You are doing the right thing by helping your LO. ;D
Hey Mods...this topic gives me the warm and fuzzies......can we make it a sticky?
Lyndsy
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That's a great idea
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Hey,
Shh pat IS hard - it almost finished me off but it was SO worth it. We probably spent three weeks to a month doing shh/pat for every nap, bed time, and night waking. I was probably too strict with the routine and made things maybe more difficult for myself than they needed to be. I remember posting a very similar message myself and having a reply from someone saying, you know, if you can't handle it, you don't HAVE to use shh/pat for every nap (always do it at bedtime though) - it will take longer but sometimes if you have to use some AP, then do it. I think the same person also said use the cat nap as a freebie - ie the car, pram. Unfortunately, Enfys will ONLY sleep in her cot but she she sleeps great. We do our wind down, swaddle, etc. I put her down and she settles herself to sleep. It was SO worth it. Hang in there.
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stickied :-*
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Okay.. Today the pat/shhh has taken anywhere from 40 mins-1 hour. He starts to cry as soon as I swaddle. So I try to sit with him, doesn't work... he just fusses and cries. I put him down and do the pat/shhh. We recorded the sound of the faucet and play that with a recorder instead of the shhh. He stays calm the whole time. His eyes are WIDE awake and he just looks around. I try to hide from him or he'll just stare at me. He squirs a bit, but isn't crying. As soon as I let up (with the pat and the shh) he starts to fuss/cry. But if he is calm the whole time, should I continue with it. Sometime he wakes in his nap but he isn't hystarically crying (so do i need to go in and do shh/pat if he isn't crying a lot??)
I've heard people say something about a mantra cry?? What is that???
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A mantra cry is hard to discribe, but basically its when its not a full out cry. Usually one that stops and starts, if you know without a dobt it's not a real cry by all means wait. With time and practice you'll learn what your LO's manta sounds like, each has a different one.
40min-1hour is not bad at all. Good job.
Its up to you how you want to do it. If you want to stop when he is calm by all means do, but wait a few minutes by his side, if he fusses wait, you don't want to wait to long, but a moment to see if he settles again is fine.
Something that may help is when your pat/shushing, stop slowly, so don't just suddenly stop and move your hand. Slow it down untill its just your hand on him, then if he fusses you can even just try a hand on him, that can often work too.
Sounds like you are well on your way though ;D
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What does your routine look like - could you be waiting too long before doing your wind down? Maybe he is a touch overtired, therefore overstimulated? Want to post your routine?
I totally agree with Kimberly, slow down on the pat before stopping - I think stopping abruptly can be startling.
When you turn him on his side to pat.shh you may consider turning him away from you so he can't see you. Also making the room dark may help.
Keep up the good work!
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Okay.. Today the pat/shhh has taken anywhere from 40 mins-1 hour. He starts to cry as soon as I swaddle. So I try to sit with him, doesn't work... he just fusses and cries. I put him down and do the pat/shhh. We recorded the sound of the faucet and play that with a recorder instead of the shhh. He stays calm the whole time. His eyes are WIDE awake and he just looks around. I try to hide from him or he'll just stare at me. He squirs a bit, but isn't crying. As soon as I let up (with the pat and the shh) he starts to fuss/cry. But if he is calm the whole time, should I continue with it. Sometime he wakes in his nap but he isn't hystarically crying (so do i need to go in and do shh/pat if he isn't crying a lot??)
I've heard people say something about a mantra cry?? What is that???
I am sorry to hear that things are not working out at you hoped. I am wondering if it wouldn't be easier on you and your baby to stick with wake, eat sleep cycle but maybe do a little more in the way of feeding on demand. With both of my boys I fed on demand for the first 3 months. Sometimes that meant I fed them to sleep. I know that BW doesn't think that is a good idea but IMHO, it is way less stressful on every one. I am of the opinion that as long as you start sleep training just before or at 3 months you still have a pretty clean slate to work with. You will also have a baby who will feed better and be able to eat enough at a feed to go longer.
This brings me to my next thought. Are you sure that your baby is getting enough food to feel satisfied before going to sleep? Is your baby suffering from gas or reflux? Maybe there are reasons why your baby is crying before each sleep cycle.
Personally, I found that going with the flow worked best for my two boys. I did spend a fair bit of time cuddling my boys before sleep. I practice the cuddle until mostly asleep but still aware that they were being put into the crib.
Best wishes to you, I know that the early baby days with your first can be a confusing time
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Again, thanks for the support. I'll write more and give ya'll an update, but for now I've got to go. THANKS! HUGE HUGS TO YOU ALL TOO! :-*
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We have had our first proper success today!! Finally!!
Sebby has been a chronic 45min napper since about 4 weeks. He was usually happy the first few times he woke up after 45 minutes, but the real problem came at around 4-5pm, the witching hour.
We are now on a 3.5 hour EASY (trying slowly to transition to a 4 hr), and for the first time today, I have not needed to go in to him at the 45 minute mark and resettle (using shush/pat and paci) him to sleep!! (I went in anyway, just to make sure, but he's all good!).
It has taken A LOT of perseverance, and even though this might be a one off, I know we are heading in the right direction!
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Way to go!
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Hi, Jackson William's mom!
How is it doing? I hope things are better, but , as others in PP said: it is a log term game. My DD is almost 9 months now, but it took me/her until 3 months old at least, to learn to fall asleep in the crib, by herself, and even then - not every time. Since 3-4 weeks old, she was often crying her head off, before falling asleep, I was doing the ssh/pat, but sometimes she would arch back and my DH discovered that it was better to put her on our bed and ssh/pat her lying there, then put her in her bassinet, once calmed down.. or not:I started to ssh/put her in her bassinet, with my upper body/ arms around her, till she would finally calm down. It could have taken 45 minutes to put her to sleep, I almost hated the BW book ;-) I thought I had a super Grumpy/ Spirited baby. I didn't know yet, that she needed , for example, an earlier Bedtime, not 7 PM rather 6 PM. And didn't have much support form In-laws in trying to establish a routine for the baby. So this to say I too felt like all my days are about putting her to sleep. But eventually about 4 months age all things started falling into place.
I read the book " Healthy sleep habits, Happy child"- helped me to understand a lot about the mechanisms of sleep+ gave support in my defending her naps against the relatives. If you skip the CIO method the author of this book advises, you can get good info from there, just use the BW methods to teach the child independent sleep.They do learn it with time and parents consistency!
At about 4 months baby's brain sleep patterns "mature" and get better organised so they can sleep through the night ) almost), and learn naps schedule. So what you invest in the baby now, even if you don't get immediate success, you will receive later, trust me!
Hope it helps, I know how hard it is in the beginning, especially with the first child :D
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Hi Sophie's mom,
Thank you for checking up on me. I thought the pat/shh was going good for a while... but then I think he got used to it and started fighting it like crazy. I began to feel hopeless. About the only thing that seems to work is to rock him and then put him down. Even with this he is a huge catnapper and I feel like I spend my whole day putting him to sleep. It is really frustrating! I don't know how people have more than one kid.
Things seem to be a little bit better and I just try not to stress over every little thing (easier said than done sometimes) Sometimes I just have to get out of the house, run some errands, go on a walk, or go visit my mom... and that is about the only thing that keeps me sane. My baby too is a gumpy/spirited baby.
And ya know, I just keep telling myself that in a few more months, hopefully things will just work themselves out and life will not seem so bad and I wont spend all of my time putting him to sleep. I've noticed a trend where people say thier babies just eventually get better once they get a bit older. Therefore, I wonder if all of these methods are pointless at this point, thus... I try not to stress about doing them consistantly.
Thank you for your thoughts.... it really helps to know that not all babies are perfect sleepers and that mom's have been through what I am going through now.
Thanks again.
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Hang in there :) Some days it's best just to go with the flow kwim? I don't think the methods are pointless persay, but I know where you are coming from - it certainly seems that way when you try things and they seemingly don't work. I went through stages of being so stressed about the short naps, that it made me miserable - which doens't help my baby much. The day's when I *let go* of the routine, I felt so much better, even if my baby sitll didn't nap very well ;) And yes, they do grow out of it eventually, just some earlier, some later.
Take care
xx
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Sometimes reading too much info is not good for the soul, especially when your lo is not doing what the books/experts say. Go with the flow. If you lo is happy then you are doing a fantastic job as a mom. HUGS!
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Hi Jackson;s mom,
Believe me, I still wonder how people can have more than 1 child, even if my Sophie sleeps through the night and, outside of some cranky periods, is generally a very happy and healthy child, I should not complain. I guess some women are " made" to be mothers of many kids, some- can handle one, and there is nothing wrong with it. I see at times that trying to have all by the book gets in a way of my happier approach to motherhood but I am learning with time to relax more often.
On the bad days, when nothing goes like it should, I tell myself: this is not something that would forbid my LO which to be happy in life or go to college. ;)
BTW: for the catnaps, afternoon stroll was the best- she wouldn't fall asleep in the bassinet, unlike for earlier naps.
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Dont be discouraged - my dh and I patted and shushed every nap time, every wake up at night for weeks. It wasnt an overnight cure but slowly bit by bit as we learned and so did our ds things came straight. Now he is nearly 5 months old and every now and then when we get night wake ups or nap problems I know I can use that method or wake-to-sleep and things will come right. He also knows that when I start patting and shushing I mean business and I rarely get any resistance.
Dont give in - you can do it :)
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Hugs to you...
Hang in there. I am new to the Baby Whispering community as well...but what you are describing is exactly what my DS was like. I didn't know what to do with him and I was at the end of my rope. I felt the same as you "if he's going to cry in my arms or in the crib - why not the crib!!!"
One day my DH brought home the Baby Whisper book and I read it cover to cover in one night and then again the next day (you miss details if you don't read it twice)
Needless to say my DS is now 1 hour and 10 minutes into his 2nd nap of the day.
My DS is a touchy baby and since my 3 year old daughter was an Angel baby I had no idea what to do with him. If your baby is touchy - really try to pay attention to the signs of overstimulation. When a touchy baby gets overstimulated it is very difficult to calm them down.
Good luck and hang in there - it gets better - I promise :-*
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I had the same experience as hanahbanana but I started at 9 weeks with ds who NEVER napped. Now by 12 ds goes down in 5 mins without sh/pat because he knows what to expect and now he naps almost by the book! It may be as they get older they need less help, but if you 'set-the-stage' they will know how to do it on their own. It's been a month since your post and you've probably already noticed a difference. Good luck!
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I am in the same boat with my 12 week old. We just started doing the EASY method. My mother in law had bought me the book when I was pregnant but I never got around to reading it. My Madison is an angel baby and she was taking long naps during the day and sleeping for 6 hours at night. Then my husband, my daughter, and our two dogs moved and I thought the time change was really going to mess with her. So I made the HUGE mistake of letting her nurse herself to sleep, stop taking naps, and I let her sleep with me every single time she slept- a nap or for the night. I figured this behavior was all due to the time change, but it quickly formed into a bad habit. We've been in our new home for 2 weeks and Madison was up every two hours simply wanting to suck. So I read the book and my husband and I are trying. It has been really hard, and tonight it took an hour and a half of pu/pd and shhhing her, but she did it! She is currently asleep in her crib. I hope my reward for this is a happier baby during the day and a baby that sleeps more at night. We can support each other during this hard time. You're not alone out there. I'm in Michigan doing this. We can do this! And EVERYONE will be a lot happier once we do. Hang in there! And I'll do the same1
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Keep it up because I promise it really does work! My son will be 4 mths on Sat and we just started the 4 s ritual last sunday. He had not really been on a schedule and usually slept in my arms (i know) or next to me on the couch. I knew it was time to get it together so we started. It has only taken 3 days! I know that some babies take longer but it really does work. My oldest took about 10 days but she has a different temperament so you have to take that into consideration. One thing is for sure and that is that it WILL WORK. Don't underestimate the swaddle either as it makes a difference, esp to the little ones as their arms really flail and wake them...plus it makes them feel secure to be all bundled up even if it seems weird to us. So, don't give up. Here's what I do: swaddle, give him his pacifier, talk softly and soothingly about how he's just taking a nice nap etc., put one hand palm down just above his eyes ( not touching his face) just so he can't look up at me and get distracted or overstimulated, and then do shush-pat in a pattern of 7, never lifting my palm when patting just my fingers so there is slight pressure of my palm on his chest. I stay there until he is breathing heavily with eyes closed and then stop shushing but pat 75 times and then leave quietly. I count 75 for myself so I know when to leave and not linger there as that is really easy to do when you are looking at your peacefully sleeping baby! Yesterday afternoon and last night he didn't need me to shush-pat at all and just took his pacifier and made his sleepy noises until he drifted off. Don't forget to listen for the mantra cry too as you don't want to rush in if your baby is trying to settle but it is not a real cry just noises...i would never leave while my baby is crying.
Good luck and you will get there. Send your success story when you do!
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Hey - haven't read whole chain as my eyes just won;t work anymore tonight but was asked to post on this site with encouragement. We did probably 2 weeks of solid sh/pat - my bub is still in a bassinet and my back was killing me by the end of it!! I felt like I spent my entire day (and night) waiting for him to go to sleep, watching him sleep or trying to stop him waking up from sleep. There is NOTHING more frustrating than watching an exhausted baby fighting their sleep - I had to go out of the room and scream "just go to sleep" several times - that will get the neighbours talking!!.
Howeve it IS worth it in the end and you feel like the BEST mum in the world when he/she goes off to sleep on their own for the first time and you have a who 2 hours yes 2 hours (feels like a lifetime) to do STUFF - I have friends who come round and stare at disbelieve as Sam quietly drops off to sleep on his own while they are frantically walking, rocking, bouncing! Don;t get me wrong there seem to be challenges every day and just when you have success something else comes along but I wanted to offer my support to keep going.
I am suffering at the mo with new night wakings but am still confident we have got the start of the sh/pat self settle established so it surely can;t get any worse (heh heh!!!) :-\
Hang in there
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well done mum2sam!!! Thanks so much for posting your story - it made me smile - and remember my own sore back for hours of pat/shh :) but it is worth it!
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Lots of love & hugs, I've so been there. I think these techniques can work regardless of the age of the child. I've only been at this for a few weeks and I thought I had a fussy baby. She's 3 months now and we started at around 11 weeks old. I soon realized (after a few break downs!!) that I wasn't watching her sleep cues so she would go down overtired and rely on me to calm her down. Once I started to watch her sleep cues I was much more successful at nap time. She would lie down on her change table, hold my hand, turn her head and close her eyes!! I was in utter shock. I tried the Shh/Pat, but I think the patting was too stimulating. So I started to massage her legs and rub my hand over her chest and tummy. The shushing worked but not if I did it too loudly. Try winding him down after your active time (after you've seen 2 yawns or any rubbing of the eyes) by walking around your house and in a soft voice tell him what room is what, then if you can go outside, do so and show him around. This should only take around 5 mins or so. Then go into his nursery, close the drapes/blinds (make it as dark as possible), swaddle him (It really works for my LO) and rub his chest and legs (they really seem to like that) and then place him in his crib. This will not work if you've missed his sleep cues. And if you have missed them, then do what ever it is that will work to calm him and try again at the next nap time. Just keep in mind that at his age about 1.5 hours after he wakes you should want him back in his crib drowsy. So try to keep an eye on the clock and his cues. Best of luck!! Don't be discouraged, believe me I've certainly had many hard days/weeks!!
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I am new to BW but I have to say shh/pat is working
My DS is 14 weeks and was getting so OT - I just didn't know what to look for - he's my first.
I had no idea how short their awake time is or what a sleep cue is - I just thought hey he's a baby, he'll just go to sleep when tired - ha!
After 4 straight days of shh/pat for every nap - we are still getting short naps and there is a knot in the middle of my shoulder blades that feels like someone dropped kicked me - but there is a HUGE and DEFINITE improvement in his sleep.
As soon as he shows the first yawn or fussy arm flailing, I whisk him off to his room. He hardly puts up a fight - the longest it has taken me to get him down is 20 mins and it has reduced every day. It's like he has come to expect it. So he isn't making it through the sleep transitions - I believe he WILL which is the most important thing. Believe in what you are doing and focus on even the smallest victories - you win some and lose some, it's not a perfect science.
As long as I continue to see improvement or any type of success I will keep on keeping on. Frankly I don't know what the alternative is - miserable LO and unhappy mummy.
Even though this is not a magic cure - there is hope and shards of light at the end of that tunnel. I'll take the shards.
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welcome to BW and I"m soooooo glad to hear that shh/pat is working - in no time, that knot in your shoulder will be a distant memory :)
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Honey, we've all been there. Reading their cues is really important. I can't stress that enough. When I was implementing EASY I would always miss my DD's sleep cues and we'd be in a vicious cycle that I felt would never end. I was here all alone and thought my world was slowly crashing down around me. Then I started really watching her behaviour and realized she told me she was tired the same way every day. She would start getting fussy at almost precisely the same times. She would be in A for 1 hr or so and I would start catching her earlier and earlier for nap and it got easier and easier for her to fall asleep. I didn't need to calm her as much because I was able to catch her in her sleepy window. Every baby is different but if you watch the clock and see him getting fussy during A time then start winding down and you'll see how much easier it gets. Good luck! We're all here for you.
Hugs!!
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When I first started using the shh/pat, I was coming from 8 weeks of letting my LO fall asleep on me...or anyone else, for that matter. At first, it started that way because I didn't have enough energy to move around (had a c-section), and plus, I had no idea that it might be difficult to then get a baby used to sleeping in their bed. Yeah, Ms. Clueless right here! ::)
Now, at 4 months, we can use shh/pat splendidly to get DS to go down for his naps and to sleep at night. We swaddle him, walk him around for about 5 minutes, sing/hum, stand by his crib and sing a little more, and then lay him down. We only have to shh/pat for about 2-3 minutes after his eyes shut (he's good about falling asleep the rest of the way by himself).
You just have to keep using it, because not only is your LO getting used to it as a cue for them to go to sleep, but you are getting better at recognizing and reacting to their sleepy cues. It just takes practice and getting used to your LO. I know, no quick solution, but it is a simple one :) LOL, now, we're having problems extending our naps past 40-45 minutes, but that's our LO...he thinks he's ready to go for another 2 hours.
My LO still can't go to sleep all by himself, but there is absolutely NO APing going on, so we're not worried. It's a means--and a healthy one at that--to an end: independent sleep. We'll get there eventually :)
Best of luck to all of you fabulous mommies! :D
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Hi,
I am not sure if different for such a young baby as we started with 4 months and before we did not have any sleep problems.
But I can tell you it worked more or less straight away with our LO. However, it took us over five weeks to now see her starting to be able to self-soothe so hang in there please (we now do quite a bit PUPD). It became apparent quite quickly that she did not need much sh/patting very very soon and I started using it less or not rather not that strong and long. You will see yourself - the baby will tell you.
She started hating the sh/pat BUT sometimes I still say shush if she does not want to calm. This works a lot of the time. I also do it to not pick her up too much.
Keep trying. Hugs
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Hello, Im all new to this board, the baby whisperer book and the mommie role of course:-)
My LO (which i assume means little one;-) ) is 8 weeks old and I put him on EASY 2 weeks ago, succesfully:-)
He has from day one slept in his own crib, knows his nights and days, i havent used any props (thank god) and have never let him cry out:-) (just common sense all of it but also a good child to deal with)
Now we are on the shhh and pat method. REason being that at 4 weeks once he started looking around and getting stimulated he started fuss and cry at nap times... i had him cry himself to sleep in my arms 2 nights in a row and KNEW I had to do something other than accidental parenting which is so easy to do in times like that, luckily a friend suggested BW and i started doing the pat/shh metod.
IM EXHAUSTED!!!!!
It does work as far as him calming down and still sleeping in his crib, it works for him which is so important to me and the motivation to keep on keepin on cause i would be exhausted from his crying just as much and he would be too so this way at least one of us is doing better:-)
I expected the method to start working straight away completely, lol... which now i know it just wont thanks to the replies on this board. REading through each and one of your stories made me cry and get chills.... it made me smile and feel more confident to continue, also the most important i am no longer alone about this. I know noone who has done anything about their babies sleep before way later and i felt "crazy" for starting so early with routines and now sleeping training.
So I want to thank you ALL for sharing these stories and i will come back in a few months and do the same for someone else who will be brand new at doing this.
Also, today, I downloaded white noise and it worked straight away, it truly takes away so much pressure off of me, I have and will continue to start each nap time and bed time with pat/shh method but instead of going for up till 60 min (depending oh how overstimulated he gets before sleep, which i cant belive how little it takes before he gets overstimulated) I can now start and do it for 20-30 and let the CD do the rest........... I feel like won a jackpot today when i read it wasnt a prop either!:-)
Again THANK YOU moms and dads, we are the luckiest people in the world and doing the hardest job of all.
Hope everyone is having a good sleep tonight!
♥ Ivana
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I want to encourage you all with my story, i spent hours in a darkened room patting and shhing, or rather patting and having white noise on, i would cry when he would cry and it was literally a nightmare, thigns started to get easier arouind 4 months old and just got better and better, now i have this wonderful little sleeper, i put him in his cot and he puts himself to sleep everytime, we know if something isnt right with him because if he fights us going to sleep (a very rare thing) we know its either, teething, illness or a routine tweak needed.
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hi
I've just got some help from a lovely woman called Brenda on this site on shhh pat. I was doing it so it became a prop for my 14 week baby, but am getting there so it's getting better and better without help from me.
I do a five min winddown now, and do all the shhh patting in the cot. Takes 10 mins max for her to close her eyes, then I leave her. If she wakes up I don't touch her - just say 'shhh, mummy is here' and she closes her eyes again.
I leave the room...she usually wakes after the five min jolt, but puts herself back to sleep again.
I am working on being able to leave her in the cot to fall asleep on her own....am a bit nervous about that bit, but then again, I never thought I'd get to the point where I wasn't shh patting in my arms and doing it in the cot only!
Keep at it ....it gets easier and easier.
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I'm back...my LO thanks to two people on this site, Brenda and Anna and their advice is now sleeping totally independently in her cot. I can kiss her forehead and leave the room and she may grizzle for five mins, or may not, but ultimately always falls asleep on her own. It's amazing...I never thought it would happen, but what a great feeling.
It's very much about giving them less and less help while reassuring them you're there if and only if they really need you. They learn, and you learn, they can do it on their own. It took a couple of weeks with my four month baby, and it's brilliant now.
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Huby I am soooo happy for you! I know the feeling, it feels unbelivable when it works:-) Its the same with my LO the only thing as we are moving on the 4 hours easy i gotta put him down at the right time and he ll close his eyes the minute i lay him down:-) its sooooo amazing! Now people when they see him fall asleep by himself say: WHAT A GOOD BABY, but I say: IT TAKES SO MUCH WORK FROM MAMA TO GET THERE they arent born like that unfortunatly:-) ;-)
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK EVERYONE!
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Hey there Maxmilian's mum - it is great isn't it. I'm still sooooo happy about it, and still can't believe she can do it ...that I did it. My husband put her down for the night tonight and was amazed she just fell asleep - nothing needed. It's so great when it happens. And well done you too - and nooo way does it just happen on its own - it does take work, you're right.
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PU/LD, it works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After only 3 days of PU/LD, my 4-months-old daughter got rid of her paci (she woke up every time it fell out) AND FINALLY, stopped doing her 35-minutes-naps (i.e. ALL her daytime naps during the last 2 months).
So, if you are experiencing the same problems, there is a way out!! The sooner you start, the sooner it will all be so much more fun.
Good luck!!
A happy and relieved mum
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PU/LD, it works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After only 3 days of PU/LD, my 4-months-old daughter got rid of her paci (she woke up every time it fell out) AND FINALLY, stopped doing her 35-minutes-naps (i.e. ALL her daytime naps during the last 2 months).
So, if you are experiencing the same problems, there is a way out!! The sooner you start, the sooner it will all be so much more fun.
Good luck!!
A happy and relieved mum
Ahhhh this is exactly what i needed to hear!! My LO is turning 4 months next week as he now is getting adicted to the paci i am concidering weaning him from it!
How many days did it take? We use the shh/pat method so ill use that to help me get there but what can i expect and what are the results now?
My LO is a great sleeper and naps great, but he is now getting disturbed by the paci whenver he goes through the light sleep he needs the paci to selfsooth back again...
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I too say hang in there! Huby was a big help for me and I was SO frustrated. I tried BW from 2 weeks and thought--hey she's young she'll get this in no time because she doesn't have any habits to break. Boy was I wrong. I truly believe that you should just help them establish a routine for the 1st 8 weeks. Start a consistent sleep wind down routine but don't stress too much about them falling asleep independently. My LO cried every time I put her in the crib until around week 10 and then one day it just worked. What I did was to consistently do the same wind down routine---swaddle, white noise, lights off, and singing in her ear. I slowly decreased the amount of time that I held her and we slowly transitioned from singing a LONG time on me to brief wind down on me and then in the cot awake. She now fusses a bit with a mantra cry but she can fall asleep independently!. There are still good days and bad days but considering where I was a few weeks ago--we are MILES ahead. I still have frustrating moments (I think this is the joy of motherhood) but it is so much better than the CIO! I wanted to give up so many times but I'm glad that I didn't. One of my neurologist friends told me that they don't even have the memory capacity until 8 weeks---which might explain why it didn't really work for me until 10 weeks. But I think it's good practice for you to have the consistent wind down during this time, so keep going!
Every baby is different--my LO doesn't like the pat. never did as it is to OS for her. She just likes to be shushed and sang to. Just be consistent in the initial setting the stage and you could try different avenues of getting your LO to sleep (maybe patting is not their thing either). Please hang in there. I can't tell you how many times I cried, and wanted to give up. I was at one point convinced that nothing worked but it does get better---it's like one day they just 'get it!' good luck!
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I started pat/shh when my LO was 7 weeks old. I tried the pop in and out in the past to give reassurance, but it just made him cry harder and I really didnt want to do the CIO thing. He was ok at night, but didnt nap at all in his cot during the day. He constantly got tired from doing the school pick up/drop offs and so only slept in the car, buggy or on me.
I started during school holidays so my 4 year old son was at home with me (you dont want to know how many hours of TV he watched!). I started pat/shh for all naps. I also had white noise in the background and permanently put up some sheets over the curtains to darken the room. Some times I had to stay with him the whole time because he startled and jumped all of the time. He gradually could sleep 30-45mins and then wake. So we were still battling the over tired baby thing for 2 weeks. He only had 2.5 hour cycles as I had to reduce his A time. I continued to pat/shh until he fell asleep and got past the 10min jolt.
I also got some helpful advice from people on this tread about LO being over tired. I noticed he only has 1 hour of awake time to do E and A, it was even less towards the end of the day. His tired signs started with flaying arms and legs. If I waited until he yawned, he was over tired. I also moved his bath time earlier and gave him an extra nap at 4.30pm even though it was always only 45mins.
1 week latter I asked my DH to put LO down for his nap. I told him what to do and to stay with him until he was asleep. DH decided that he would leave after he was calm but awake. Much to my surprise he settled himself to sleep. And since then I do a 5 min wind down, swaddle him up, kiss him on the cheek and leave the room. He has managed to settle himself for all naps except the last evening sleep (around 7pm). Not only that, he is also napping for up to 2.5 hours (x3) during the day and sleeping 7 hours at night, with one feed at 3pm and settling himself for sleep until about 7am. I often hear him wake after 45mins with a few cries or talks to himself, but can then resettle for sleep!
LO is still a bit unsettled between 7.30pm and 9.00pm ie in a light fitful sleep and sometimes needs resettling. But napping has improved so much I am amazed at how quickly it worked to LO. The key for us is to be consistent and have faith that it will work.
Hang in there - the reward for you and LO when they finally 'get it' is amazing. I feel like I have a new baby!
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I've thought about this a while, and finally felt a need to post. Maybe someone like me will read all of these posts, see mine, and it will help. BW emphasizes that her books are guides which provide you with tools, but when it comes to doing it I feel many people forget the "guide" part and try to do EXACTLY what she says, to the letter, rather than using it as a tool to understand your individual baby. I see it all the time in posts on the nap board, moms crying out in desperation because the formula doesn't work and they feel like failures. My heart goes out to them; I was there. My daughter naps like a champ, now. I used the BW principles, but I didn't do it just like it was written. Things I learned:
1. Spend the first 6 - 8 weeks just getting to know your LO. If you can set your LO in the crib to sleep, great. If it results in crying, then hold, rock, whatever. It really won't ruin everything; your LO is too young to form permanent or difficult-to-break habits at that age. The most desperate posts come from moms during this time period, so if you listen to nothing else I say, heed this: just let go a bit, just learn, don't worry so much about doing it "right", just give yourself time to adjust to parenthood and your LO time to adjust to life. You'll cry a lot less.
2. When they say use white noise, they mean hairdryer loud! You'll go mad reproducing this with your lips. Get a good white noise disc or machine and turn it UP.
3. If your LO doesn't like something at first, try it again a week or so later. Lots of LOs change their preferences as they develop. My daughter disliked patting at first, but now firm pats on the butt work wonders. Don't throw away your tools, just pack them for later.
4. Pacifiers are a great sleep tool. Transition to the thumb when your LO figures the thumb out, so your LO can self-soothe (I just nudged her elbow to put her fist in front of her mouth, and after a bit of fussing she'd take her thumb). Worried about teeth or 8-year old thumb sucking? Don't be. It's normal and natural to suck the thumb, and it usually only becomes a big deal if you make it one (search thumb sucking and the American Dental Association if you don't believe me!).
5. When training, don't put your LO in the crib too early in the falling asleep process. So many are worried about setting down too late, that you do it too early (I did!). When first training, I found it helped a lot to wait until she was just on the edge of sleep to put her down, and then over a two week period I'd set her down earlier and earlier. Made the experience go much more smoothly.
6. Use the clock as a GUIDE, not a rule. Trying to make your LO sleep when they are "supposed to" is an exercise in frustration. Trying to make your LO sleep the amount of time he/she is "supposed to" likewise. Use your child's happiness as a key. Woke up from a 45 minute nap happy and alert? Don't try and extend just because she/he "ought" to have slept 1 hour 30 min.
One day you'll be struggling to get your child OUT of bed. No matter what you do, the important thing is to love your child, foster trust, and enjoy this time in his/her life. You don't get it back, so don't be so rigid, don't fret so much about doing everything right, and remember that you WILL figure this out. Build some good memories along with a good sleeper. ;)
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I've thought about this a while, and finally felt a need to post. Maybe someone like me will read all of these posts, see mine, and it will help. BW emphasizes that her books are guides which provide you with tools, but when it comes to doing it I feel many people forget the "guide" part and try to do EXACTLY what she says, to the letter, rather than using it as a tool to understand your individual baby. I see it all the time in posts on the nap board, moms crying out in desperation because the formula doesn't work and they feel like failures. My heart goes out to them; I was there. My daughter naps like a champ, now. I used the BW principles, but I didn't do it just like it was written. Things I learned:
1. Spend the first 6 - 8 weeks just getting to know your LO. If you can set your LO in the crib to sleep, great. If it results in crying, then hold, rock, whatever. It really won't ruin everything; your LO is too young to form permanent or difficult-to-break habits at that age. The most desperate posts come from moms during this time period, so if you listen to nothing else I say, heed this: just let go a bit, just learn, don't worry so much about doing it "right", just give yourself time to adjust to parenthood and your LO time to adjust to life. You'll cry a lot less.
2. When they say use white noise, they mean hairdryer loud! You'll go mad reproducing this with your lips. Get a good white noise disc or machine and turn it UP.
3. If your LO doesn't like something at first, try it again a week or so later. Lots of LOs change their preferences as they develop. My daughter disliked patting at first, but now firm pats on the butt work wonders. Don't throw away your tools, just pack them for later.
4. Pacifiers are a great sleep tool. Transition to the thumb when your LO figures the thumb out, so your LO can self-soothe (I just nudged her elbow to put her fist in front of her mouth, and after a bit of fussing she'd take her thumb). Worried about teeth or 8-year old thumb sucking? Don't be. It's normal and natural to suck the thumb, and it usually only becomes a big deal if you make it one (search thumb sucking and the American Dental Association if you don't believe me!).
5. When training, don't put your LO in the crib too early in the falling asleep process. So many are worried about setting down too late, that you do it too early (I did!). When first training, I found it helped a lot to wait until she was just on the edge of sleep to put her down, and then over a two week period I'd set her down earlier and earlier. Made the experience go much more smoothly.
6. Use the clock as a GUIDE, not a rule. Trying to make your LO sleep when they are "supposed to" is an exercise in frustration. Trying to make your LO sleep the amount of time he/she is "supposed to" likewise. Use your child's happiness as a key. Woke up from a 45 minute nap happy and alert? Don't try and extend just because she/he "ought" to have slept 1 hour 30 min.
One day you'll be struggling to get your child OUT of bed. No matter what you do, the important thing is to love your child, foster trust, and enjoy this time in his/her life. You don't get it back, so don't be so rigid, don't fret so much about doing everything right, and remember that you WILL figure this out. Build some good memories along with a good sleeper. ;)
LOVE THIS! Should be a thread on its own:-)
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Thank you Inara for your words of encouragement. In your advice #6 about BW being a GUIDE rings true for me. For the last 2 months I have spent every nap in my 7 month old son's room trying to httj, W2S, and shush/pat to get him to take the "right" nap length. I've struggled with short naps, trying to figure out if he was OT/UT and what the right A time is. I have been so frustrated that I couldn't get him to take 1.5 hour naps without waking up early and having to try and extend his nap with mixed success.
I am a very structured person by nature, so when his day wasn't working out as planned it would add to my stress. Finally 3 days ago I decided I wouldn't go in his room during naps anymore and just let things be. If his nap was short, I would just add another nap in the day or put him down early...and just stop worrying and obsessing about it! Well, to my surprise, his naps the last 2 days have been great! Yesterday he had naps of 1h 35 min and 55 min. There was no need for a cat nap. Today he had naps of 2 hours 10 min (I had to wake him up!) and 1 h 25 min. No need for a cat nap to get him to bedtime.
Maybe the httj and W2S had worked and I just had to give him a chance to do it on his own? Maybe by being in the room and holding his arms and patting him, I was making him not sleep as well? Hopefully his great naps will continue, but I know there could be bumps along the way as he grows and his needs change. But my new attitude is to just take things day by day and not be so hard on myself. Instead of obsessing over his naps each day, I am going to enjoy the time that I get to spend with him each day.
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I've been doing shh/pat for a couple of weeks now...my LO is 5 months old this Sunday! It WORKS! It took me 2 weeks to get him to sleep in his crib for naps..and I mean longer than 40 mins. I've also been doing W2S and I cannot tell you how great it is! It's hard at times...for sure, but keep at it! I promise it'll pay off in the end. My DS had a 2 hour nap this morning and this afternoon, well, entirely different story. After 40 mins, I had to shh/pat him for 20 mins. He feel asleep (finally!) and he went another hour.
Keep it going!!!!
Keep us posted!
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Thanks Inara for your post, it's just what I needed as today I am in despair as we are 4 weeks in to 40 min naps with my 17 week old DS. My hair is falling out like no tomorrow and I'm not sure if it is just post-pregnancy or stress?!? Some days/naps are great so just when I think I've cracked it, our day/naps go back to being a disaster. Your post is a great reminder to stop stressing, to stop being so hard on myself, to stop expecting that I should have all the answers, to stop being rigid and by the clock and that I am a GOOD mum of a beautiful LO.
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I just started the EASY routine 2 wks ago and got REALLY discouraged w/ the pat/shh method, not to mention sooo exhausted. Like you, my hubby is very supportive but I'm a stay at home mom too, and it's sooo tough during the days by myself. Right now, to aleviate stress, my hubby and I are rocking baby to sleep... I know this defeats the whole purpose but I too am so tired...
I'm glad I logged in today and read everyone's posts. My hubby gets back into town tonite (he was gone for 4 days!!!) and will talk to him again about doing the pat/shh method again... wish me luck...
Also, do you all know how to calculate EASY schedule for preemies? My LO's actual age (from birth date) is 8 wks and 5 days. Her adjusted age (from due date) is 4 wks and 1 day. I'm not sure how long awake time should be. And what are the sleepy cues to look for? I found the following link for sample EASY routines, (http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164027.0), just not sure if to use the 4wks or 8wks???
Help!
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nlvroman--Go by her adjusted age for A times. Here's a link to average A times, but keep an eye on her as she might need a little more or a little less. Every baby is different and these A times are a guide. Also, keep in mind that shh/pat also takes time to implement and to figure out the pattern or variation that your LO responds best to. Good luck! :)
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0
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Thanks Sara!!!
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I feel your pain... I really do....
Here's my story which is a little different since of course all babies are different...
I began the ssh/pat method 3 days ago. Spent a good 40-45 mins of doing it until my LO fell asleep. And then, she'd only take a nap for an hour or so. IF, I'm lucky...
Well, my hubby and I changed our approach a little bit. It took a lot of energy doing the ssh/pat for that long of time, for each nap. So we began doing the Four S's for wind down two days ago. She fusses and cries a little while I'm holding her doing the ssh/pat, the first sign of her getting drowzy, I lay her down in her crib. Sometimes she continues to close her eyes when put down, but most times, her eyes fling wide open, as if completely awake. Well, I pat her a little and do a little more sshing, say comforting things, and leave the room. And come to find out, she's falling asleep on her own. No more rocking her to sleep, nor doing ssh/pat for 40-45 mins.
I really believe in getting to know your baby, reading her cues, and combining different methods for your own LO. Each baby is sooo diff. Of course, this takes trial and error. My biggest advise is be patient. AND KNOW YOU'RE A FABULOUS MOM, WHO CARES SO MUCH ABOUT YOUR BABY!!! Trust your instincts!!!
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i totally agree!
i also do natural horsemanship (or did before i lost my horse :( ) and always held in my mind that 'it wont take longer than 2 days', DS2 is a textbook/spirited and took about 3 tries at shh/pat to get him down to 12 mins from 30. hes 13m now and often goes down without a murmer and rarely cries. persevere xxx
DS1 is a grumpy/spirited who we did CC with and he still struggled to fall asleep till he was 3 (and still prefers to be with us)
i havent had time to read all posts but in case you are still debating it, i hope your mind is erring away from CC.
xxxx
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I have to say that perseverance is the key!
DD was using a paci to sleep, so it was easy to put her down. WHen she found her thumbs she gave up the paci (around 3mo) but wouldn't find them to self-soothe, then I was rocking her to sleep. Sometimes she'd fall asleep independently but when she'd fuss I'd rock her. When she was around 2,5mo I started doing shh/pat. I gave up for a while because sometimes it'd take me a long time (that's why the paci). But she she was 3,5 I decided to really take it seriously.
I started doing the 4S and shh/pat. DH mocked on me and even said that patting her on the crib would be the same thing as rocking... I insisted, showed him how I was doing and he still didn't believe. We put DD to sleep on her side for a while so it was easy to pat her back. After sometime it was easy to put her to (back) sleep just patting for a while but she wouldn't put herself back to sleep at night without me patting her, then I realized I was becoming a prop for her.
One day, she was almost 4mo, I watched her cues, did the 4S and put her in the cot (on her back), kissed her, said "have a good nap" and left the room. She babbled and complained (not cried) but fell asleep independently! After that first time I did the same over and over again and she sleeps! no need for me to pat her anymore!! sometimes when she wakes up at night she whimpers and go right back to sleep!!! Of course that if she cried at naptimes, bedtime or at night I go for her, but it's not my first option! :)
I mean, it works! If I have had the same consistency from the beginning she'd probably have learned to sleep independently much earlier!
Get to know your LO, you'll find a way that suits you both best!
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I just want to say to those moms who are frustrated: hang in there and be consistent!
I started this method with my DD when she was 4 weeks old... it was like a suicidal mission every nap and bedtime. DD would cry and cry and arch her back and fight with me. The average was about 30min to 1hr to put her down. And if I missed the sleep cues, things would really sort of get out of control.
BUT, I stick with it... at around 10 weeks I start to notice the crying time starts to cut in half. At about 12 weeks which is when DD about to turn 3 months, there was no crying any more. It was a miracle. It was like all of sudden I am going deaf. Now at just about 4 months, I just have to swaddle DD and lay her down in the crib, draw the curtain and she will start to drift to sleep. I still stay at her side just in case she needs more time to settle so I would Shh a bit. But on the whole, she is putting herself to sleep and is able to go back to sleep between sleep cycles.
So the Shh-Pat does work, and it is not a prop!
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Hang on in there! You are doing a great job of one of the most frustrating processes ever!
Shush pat worked for us...but only after a few weeks of feeling like we were getting nowhere and lots of tears (not just DDs! - I remember sitting by her crib for practically the whole day twice, just in my pjs, faithfully shush patting while she absolutely refused to nap!! - even though I had put her down when she was showing tired signs etc - ALL day!). I
was ready to give up and even tried a couple of other things but felt if shush pat worked it seemed to be the nicest way to do things and it made sense in theory - that you help to sooth them while they are lying in their crib and reassure them that you haven't abandoned them, they build familiarity with the crib and (eventually) more of a sense of calm and confidence when in there.
OUr DD is 9 weeks and at bedtime she falls asleep independently, I think the routine of bath, swaddling etc has helped with that too. Then at naps, provided I put her down before she is overtired, she (usually - only in the last week or so though) either falls asleep quickly without fuss or makes 3 or 4 bursts of quick noise or yelps then drops off. Be encouraged that it is a longer process than you think but it really should pay off. I didn't even see much improvement until she just kind of got it - so hang on in there and well done for persevering! x
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My success story!
My baby girl (7 months old) had been taking 30-45 minute naps since she was about 2-3 months. After 4 months of this silliness, I was SO incredibly fed up, cried out to the Lord for help and came across this website!
A couple of days ago, I decided to start the shh-pat, and do it until she went back to sleep, no matter how much she fought it. (to extend her naps.) So, I did. I shh-patted over the side of the crib, with my smart phone in hand, reading success stories while I shh-patted!! haha, that helped pass the time. Imagine my surprise when after 30 minutes of patting, SHE FELL ASLEEP for another 45 minutes!! The next time I tried it, she fell asleep within 25 minutes, and then 5 minutes, then 3 minutes! And she sleeps for another hour and a half usually!!
Incredible. DON'T GIVE UP!!!
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I have been doing shh pat for 2 days and am hoping the same ... please start working !!
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Not sure how to quote from a past post but:
"Sh/pat is used for bedtime, if your lo is crying at other times you can comfort him in other ways."
Uh oh... really? Does that mean I CAN'T use sh/pat for naps? I'm trying to diminish the bouncing prop right now for naps and bed time but wondering why we can't us sh/pat for naps?
I understand the support of a wonderful hubby but it's all on me during the day... we live so far out that it's hard if not impossible to get people to come this far to help. :(
Hugs to everyone struggling... it must be a huge boat we are all in! :):)
xoxoxo
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This may be a little early to say "Yay!" and I'm guilty of trying several new things at once and sticking to what is working better...
Sh/Pat never worked in the past - seemed to make my LO angry and he screamed all the more (14 weeks old now).
However, I recall in one of Tracy's books that sometimes smaller steps worked better...
I'm trying to replace the bouncing on the ball for the sleep prop with the sh/pat.
So... I'm still keeping one arm swaddled for now... except for the morning nap which is the best nap.
The other two naps aren't so successful but even though you aren't supposed to pick you LO up, if the sh/pat isn't working after about 4-5 minutes, I've picked my LO up and sat on the ball with minimal bounce if any (weaning it away!) and replacing with a bottom pat and then a chest pat. Yes, I'm picking him up, yes I"m bouncing a little bit... but I'm slowly weaning things away. When I get braver and he's used to the sh/pat, I'll start doing it for more time before picking him up.
I have one question though for anyone out there... is it reasonable to let my LO cry for 4-5 min and try to resettle himself before going in to sh/pat? I think I made the mistake today and ran right in with no faith at all in my little guy that he could resettle - although he has in the past...
Open to suggestions, opinions and help from anyone who this resonates with. :)
Hugs to all... motherhood is very hard - no one could ever have prepared me. My little guy is adopted - had him an hour after birth... I really want/must protect the trust that he has in me and be careful not to do anything that would break that.
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I think "bedtime" means any sleepy time yk?
Is the cy a mantra cry? If so by all means let your lo have at it unless it becomes an "I need you" cry. Sometimes it is hard to tell (my DD2 had a loud mantra took ages to figure it out and I swear she was relieved when I left her alone!).
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Hi, I've just started trying the shh/pat with my 11wk old a few days ago. It does work but he screams his head off during it before eventually calming down after 10-15 mins. Is this to be expected or does his sting reaction mean he dislikes the shush or the pat and I should try another variation? He also hates being swaddled so the crying normally starts then, meaning I have to move straight to the shh pat as he'll just cry if I put him straight in Moses basket swaddled. Also have noticed he cries MORE now than when I started this rather than less. Any tips gratefully received
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*strong* reaction not sting
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I have been trying with my 6, nearly 7 week old.
the patting and shushing does not calm her, I've tried patting bottom, back, with the shush, without it, rubbing back, it doesn't make a difference as to what i do, the only thing that calms her is me holding her to my neck, which I have done whilst trying all the variations. Variations in wind down does not make a difference either.
We have only ever had one nap in the cot using short wind down, rub back, and then back in after 40 mins with hand on back to take through to next sleep cycle. I think it only worked as i held her until she was half asleep- she cries, suddenly stops and then i put in cot after 30 seconds with eyes shut but some wiggling in cot.
Can someone tell me what to expect as I've tried for about 15-20 naps since 1 week old, not consistently, all other naps times are pram or sling with lots of walking. A time is not the issue and neither is stimulation from my observations although OT and OS make it worse.
Today i've tried from first nap (8am wind down) to 1pm with progressively harder crying and only x1 10 min light sleep, and x1 20 min light sleep. I've fed every 2 hrs as a consequence.
I will not do this for bed time. We wash, feed in room, and put down in cot, she happily drifts off after around 40 mins. My 3 year old is distressed by the crying and it disturbs her going to sleep.
Is it worth pursuing if it shh pat shows no signs of working? Do i need to commit to doing it all day with hard crying all day, until she is exhausted?
Did anybody's babies just grow out of the need for pram and sling sleeping after a few or several months?
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I didn't read all the other stories but my son is now 8.5 months. He was colicky, and had reflux. From week 2 on he never slept more than 25 minutes at a time except nighttime but it would take about 3-4 hrs to get him to fall asleep and stay asleep. From either 10 or 12 weeks I started implementing EASY and using the shh pat. EASY was really hard for probably close to 2 months as his sleep was so off and his routine had many extra As and some extra Es from him getting hungry from all the crying.
I must have sat in his room in the dark for close to 3 weeks to a month during nap time to get SHH PAT to really work well. Probably after 2 weeks his crying was not near as strong or as long. His naps were still short that was why I think it took to long. But in retrospect now I believe my son was chronically Overtired.
Anyways I am so so so so HAPPY that I found the shh pat. I still use it but in different variations. I rarely pat or shh I just lay a hand on my son's back when he is struggling and it usually calms him.
I also found that sometimes I struggled more with the naps with the shh pat, but once my son was used to it, when he awoke at night it was a life saver. To go in a pat for 5 minutes vs spending 30-45 minutes trying to get him to fall back to sleep was so much nicer. Same when he woke up after being put to bed, it was nice to get him back to sleep quickly so then I could spend time with my husband.
It is really hard at first, you really need to dedicate time to it. I brought my phone in the room with me and would check my emails etc. while I was patting to give me something to get my mind off of it.
Also the other big thing is once your daughter is asleep is to keep doing it for like 20-25 minutes until they pass the jerk that wakes them up.
I think at first you have to be very very consistent and always do same wind down routine then lay in cot etc. and stand back and wait and if they start to cry do the ssh pat. Do you think you are shhhing loud enough?? The shhhh definitely helped my son, and when he was older, I would say, "your okay, your fine, you are just tired." or "calm down, calm down" all while patting.
Also I would pat quite strongly and quickly with loud shhh and once my son calmed down I would slow the pat, making it softer and soften my voice. I always ended the shh pat by slowing the pat to almost nothing then just very lightly laying my hand on back. If baby would start to move or fuss at all I would gently start to pat always matching their intensity of their cries.
The only thing I may have done different, is that my son slept on his tummy so it made the shh pat very easy. I am not sure works wonders if the baby is only 6 weeks old as there sleep pattern still has no routine yet but I know that I know I would probably be bald and divorced (lol) if I had never found it!!
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Hi there!!
Keep at it, it really does work! It's so easy to get discouraged - I started on my 5 week old on Friday night. It took 90 minutes for DS to finally go to sleep. That was the longest 90 minutes of my life but I kept reminding myself that once I had broken the first night, it was going to get much easier. And it did! The next time I only had to do it for under 30 minutes and yesterday was only 8 minutes.
Stay strong!
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Hello and big hugs from me as well! I also learnt about the BW when my LO was about 6 weeks, and I so wished I'd read the book during pregnancy! Before that I suppose I just fed my DS to sleep, but also it was hard not to as he seemed to be feeding ALL THE TIME..big baby. :) Anyway, when we learnt about EASY and shh/pat things definitely improved, however the average 20 minutes for us were about 40.. Sometimes he seemed to go off quicker and I would wait the whole 20 minutes just in case, and of course he'd wake 10 minutes after...to date he's a short napper most times (he's turning 6 months).
We did however find a bit of a different way that worked for us, and still needs to be tweaked in time: for example, holding him too much never worked so we did shh/pat only in the cot, and didn't pat his back as he sleeps on it, instead I patted lightly on his chest mimicking a heartbeat. Sometimes he would instead get worked up with that, and a round stroking of the belly would do the trick. Nowadays shhh/pat doesn't work too well as Tracy suggested would be the case around 6 months, and I instead whisper the same words (relaaax and close your eeeyes) in a sort of hypnotic mantra and keep a hand on him until his eyes are closing. So, it works but as you will read everywhere every baby is different so go ahead and try little changes, you will find what's right for you! :)
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Thanks for posting this thread. My touchy baby has been super touchy this week post illness. Tonight I was struggling to settle babe and after trying for ages I left him with DH and read this thread. Back in I went, turned up some white noise and simply sat and patted his bottom until he finally calmed down. He then nuzzled me for a feed which I gave (he was tired and now hungry from crying). Fed him. Calmed. Put into cot awake. Immediately calmer and ready to settle. Still working on consistency but babe needs me to hold and shh pat at the moment and working on transferring patting to cot as illness has thrown him. He isn't as easy as my first textbook baby but this thread on shhh pat helped me. Thanks for posting and pinning this.
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Lovely to hear that this thread was helpful and sh-pat worked for you too
Xxx
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Hi there, thanks for all of your sharing, they give me hope and encouragement so I would love to give it a serious try for couple weeks but have a big question. Could the 4S work WITHOUT the swaddle ? I know that its is extremely importany, buy sorry to say that we do not use swaddle here (for couple reasons).
Just a brief on my ritual for LO's sleep (but not consistent): when I see his first yawn ( around 10mins wake after 8 mins bf - hes getting close to week 5), I would hold him, hum a song then he fall asleep a couple mins later IN MY ARMS; I hold him a little longer then put him down to sleep and do some sh-pat to make sure he sleep well. It know it sounds ridiculous, what I am doing I basically not the 4S ritual given by Tracy: I dont uae swaddle and I put him down sleepING in stead of sleepY.
Well, quite wordy, but what I am trying to say is that whether swaddling is a MUST for 4S? If it is, I will find an alternative sleeping method (actually I am also using some props i.e hammock, bf). If there is a way for it without the swaddle thing, I will make a commitment to seriously stick to the 4S.
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You don't have to do anything. It is recommended to swaddle as the flailing arms and startle reflex starts becoming more obvious as babies grow but aren't in control yet so scratch their faces or smack themselves in the face and wake themselves up! It's up to you, do what works for you I say. My babies have been swaddled since birth, first until close to 6 months, the 2nd is 3.5 months and I have him in a love to dream swaddle as he comforts himself with his hands (my first didn't, he was still flailing around a bit at same stage!)